HomeMy WebLinkAboutHousing & Redevelopment Authority Minutes 03-21-1974A C E N Q A WHERE: Council Chambers
PLY tTH.h4USING ADVISORY COMMITTEE. Public Works Building
IMRSDAY,-MARCH 21., 1974 1.4900 23rd Avenue North
7' -iii PA Plymouth, Minnesota 55441
1. Call to Order by Chairman
2. Review Met Council Housing Policy Plan and Program • Spot Quiz
3.. Distribute Additional Housing Information
4. Review Committee Approach
5. Recommend Inviting Representatives from the Following HRA's
A. St. Louis Park
B. Hopkins
C. Bloomington
to Review their Programs
6. Adjournment
Roger Barnes, Chairman.
Plymouth Housing Advisory Committee
i
Martin W. Overhiser and Milt Dale,
Project Coordinators
rr }
PLYMOUTH HOUSING ADVISORY COMMITTEE
March 21, 1974 Vrr6V
The second meeting of the Plymouth Housing Advisory Committee was called to
order by Chairman. Roger Barnes at 7:50 p.m. in the Council Chambers of the
Public Works Building, 14900 23rd Avenue North.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Barnes., Mrs. Ruth Ault, Harold Bakke, Mrs. Barbara.
Edwards, James I.ide. Howard Hunt
MEMBERS ABSEt;T: Delano Erickson, William Leeper, Jr., Ronald Raschke,
William Rova
ALSO PRESENT: John Doyle.. Met Council Housing Staff
STAFF PRESENT: Martin Overhiser, Milt Dale
Call to Order by Chairman - Correction of Minutes for February 28, 1974
Roger Barnes, Committee Chairman, offered several corrections to the minutes
of February 28, 1974 and these minutes are included in the approved minutes
for that meeting. The committee will be reviewing these minutes through the
mail. Roger Barnes asked Councilman Hunt if the Council would wish to receive
the unapproved minutes or would they prefer to receive the minutes as approved.
Councilman Hunt stated they would Tike the approved minutes and did not wish
to get the minutes prior to approval. Chairman Barnes added that he would
get together with staff to correct the minutes prior to committee's receiving
the same.
Review Met Council Housing.Policy Plan and Program.
Chairman Barnes had several questions that he directed to John Doyle regarding
the Met Council's Housing Policy Plan and .Prngram.. One question was, "What
are special: housing demonstration programs?" John Doyle indicated that an
example of a special housing demonstration program is what Plymouth is presently
doing with its Housing Committee Study. Also. Minneapolis is dying a Central
City project, 4s is the municipality of Edina.
Councilman Hunt wondered what the Met Council was doing relative to providing
incentive to communities to build taller buildings.. John Doyle stated that
the Met Council is not involved in this type of activity, but is letting each
community wm* out this problem as it best suits their needs. Harold Bakke
stated that land costs are still low enough so that presently developers are
building low-rise buildings rather than high-rise type developments. Council-
man Hunt believed that this trend was on the change, however, and that in the
future more high-rise buildings would be constructed. Mr. Bakke added that he
believed: the four to eight story buildings would become popular because of
safety regulation costs and mechanical equipment costs.
Housing Advisory Committee Minutes 2-
C7
March: 21, 1974
Chairman Barnes asked John Doyle if Item 9 on Page 52 regarding a survey of
substandard housing in Plymouth has been done at this time. Mr. Doyle said
that it is in a study phase and should be completed in a couple of months
with a report published sometime in September 1974, but this would be a
breakdown by subregions and not by municipalities.
Chairman Barnes wanted to know what the Met Council's opinion was of Plymouth's
comprehensive plan and the Plymouth ordinances. Martin Overhiser said that
on Friday, March 29 the Met Council has invited planners and others over to
explain what a "housing element" is to enable municipalities to add a housing
element to their program. The housing element deficiency is the only "bad
mark" that Plymouth has against it at this time. John Doyle added that
Plymouth's official resolutions relative to providing opportunities for low
and moderate income housing indicates they are making an effort in providing
this into their community.
Roger Barnes asked what 235 and 236 programs are in terms of guidelines and
would they be relative to our committee assignment. Howard Hunt said these
programs are defunct and it is very unlikely they will ever be revived.. The
question of.an HRA for the metropolitan area was asked and John Doyle -said
that a Met Council HRA may be developed, but as yet no funds have been allocated
for its operation. Councilman Hunt added that the Met Council HRA would provide
assistance to a number of communities and would negate the necessity of each
community establishing its own HRA.
Chairman Barnes asked, "How does a municipality approve rent supplements?"
John Doyle stated that it would require a community to have an HRA to approve
rent supplements which Plymouth does not have; and, at this time, rent
supplements are not being granted as the 235 and 236 programs are presently
defunct.
Chairman Barnes also asked if Plymouth has model zoning and subdivision.
regulations similar to those proposed by the Met Council. Martin Overhiser
stated that the model ordinance proposed by the Met Council has not been
shoon to be appropriate for most communities as it would involve throwing
out most of the present ordinances which communities operate under. However,
the City's Planning Commission is working on a PUD ordinance that will satisfy
some of these objectives as stated in this model ordinance by the Met Council.
John Doyle did indicate that a new version of this modal ordinance is coming
out and would be made available. He believed this new version is superior
to the earlier document.
John Doyle stated that each community 'in the Metro area would have to approve
Metro NRA involvement in its community. He also said that any person relocated
due to HRA activities, such as redevelopment, would have to be located within
that municipality.
Martin Overhiser added that in 1970 11% of the Plymouth housing stock was
affordable to low and moderate income families. However, this census data
Wising Advisory Committee Minutes - 3 - March 21., 1974
did not take into account structural condition of that housing. This is due
to the fact that in the 1970 census no attempt was made to determine housing
condition. The only question relative to this issue was whether indoor
plumbing was within the housing structure.
Councilman Hunt mentioned that only about.two houses a year in Plymouth are
rated as dilapidated by the Plymouth Building Department and only about one
per year is actually demolished. In the past, the Medicine Lake area was the
only real area of old housing within the community. However, this has been
changing.
Ruth Ault stated that it is essential that the municipality make eligible
people aware of funds that would be available through any rehabilitation
grants. In. this regard, John Doyle was hopeful: that the state would pass a
rehabilitation housing program; however, no grants would be available this
session, but low Interest money would be available this year and it was his
hope that grants would bemade available in the future.
CouncilmanHunt made a remark in passingon the Cedar -Riverside project and
was of the opinion that this development is too sterile in terms of play
spaces for children, i.e. their location six or eight floors above the ground
and no contact with Mother E?rth. He wondered'how John Doyle felt about this
development. John Doyle indicated that a group of students at the University
are taking the Cedar -Riverside Association to court over environmental factors.
Harold Bakke injected the comment that Cedar -Riverside is very successful in
terms of renting its units, with 90% or better of the development already
rented out.
Chairman Barnes had a question relative to the Housing Policy Plan and Program
where on Page 54, 46 it stated that in large-scale developments, de..,lopers
should provide for a minimum of 20% of units affordable by persons of low
and moderate incomes. He was of the opinion this percenta;e seemed quite
high. He also wanted to know if John Doyle had the percentage of families
of low and moderate income within the various municipalities. John Doyle
said this data was available in terms of percent of families in low and
moderate cost housing. Another question that arose was what constituted
a large-scale development. Martin Overhiser answered that this would involve
500 units ab the program presently constituted. (See Page 27 of the Housing
Policy Plan and Program).
Councilman Hunt stated that a large-scale development is presently being
planned north of Medicine Lake on the Mission Farms property and this would
evolve over a 15-17 year time period. John Doyle wondered if the d;!velopers
of this project were optimistic in terms of their development due to the
tight money market, high interest, the energy crisis, inflation, and the
general uncertainties in our present economy. Councilman Hunt believed that
the Mission Farms project people would stage the development in such a way
that they could deal with these problems. Jim Eide indicated that in his
position as a real Estate broker, he found the real estate market very active
and a real demand existed for used housing under the $45,000 unit cost. He
said business for his firm has been up considerably over the last six to eight
months; however, less than 10% of the buyers are going into new houses, with
most buyers moving from apartments to usedhouses or townhouses.
Hous4: ng Advisory Committee Minutes - 4 - March 21, Tt4 4
Councilman Hunt wanted to k•;;# if the Met Council Housing Policy Plan and
Program It up for a revie. t various times. John Doyle stated that it was
up for annual review and ate. Councilman Hunt said he asked this question
because much of the "present policy" is about the 235 and 236 programs which
are now inoperative. In this regard, Martin Overhiser stated that much of what
the Housing Committee does may become obsolete by the fall of 1974 as the
housing market and other factors relative to housing are constantly changing.
It is for this reason that he believed gust the assembling of data ;:ould not
be appropriate, for this data would soon be ob:olete; but that guidelines for
develop. -tent of a low and moderate cost housing program would be the real
objective.
Distribution of Additional Housing Information
Martin Overhiser distributed a Housing Resource Manual for the committee
with a number of items in the manual relative to the committee's concerns
and its basic charge. Some of the comments that were brought out during this
presentation of the resource manual were that 1973 housing activity in Plymouth
has been up over 1972 in spite of an effort by builders in 1972 to beat the
VC charge. It was also noted that it will be difficult to get information
on where people live and whera people work in Plymouth and surrounding muni-
cipalities.
Councilman Hunt added that Minnesota is losing people to other states due to
its high state taxes; and souttirn states with lower taxes are luring industries
to their states. Another point that was brought out was that by 1980 the
Met Council has estimated that Plymouth would have 12,000 jobs within its
municipality. "Tau 5 should be updated in terns of the A-95 review procedure
as all items on that sheet should be cut in half.
Councilman Hunt also remarked on the Section 235 article relative to building
costs in th3 South aro in the southern c:imates. He stated that in his pre-
sentation to the State Legislature a couple of years ago, he told the legis-
lators that it costs approximately $6,000 more to build a comparable house it
Minnesota than it would in a southern state such as Texas. Presently, Mr. Hunt
is in the process of developing a cost sheet on those cost factors that go
into the building of a 1,000 sq. ft. house. He stated that copies would be
available for each member on the committee. Jim Eide indicated that he could
bring in interview sheets and other data from his business that may be helpful
for the committee members. Councilman Hunt mentioned that such factors as
cabinetry, wood doors versus metal doors, all influence the final cost of
an individual house. John Doyle brought along six examples of how a typical
house on a lot with a constant cost factor of $20per sq. ft. could fluctuate
in the final cost by reducing setbacks, lot size, landscaping, elimination of
a garage, reducing house size, etc., so that the committee would get an indi-
cation of how housing costs may be reduced.
After review of these examples by the committee, Harold Bakkee expressed the
opinion that Mr. Doyle's examples should not try to promote the small 50 ft.
Housing Advisory Committee Minutes - 5 - March 21, 1974
wide lot, as this size lot is a step back to the old form of planning of 50
years ago. John Doyle said this.was not hU intent, but rather the intent
was to show cost.varia.sles and not promote a certain size house or lot.
arttn Overhiser added Ost a PUD example of house siting on a lot would
probably be core advantages.#s to John Doyle's presentation.
this led the rowittee into a discussion of PUDs with Councilman Hunt stating
that PUDs are oftert misinterpreted wit,'t buiiders often attempting to use the
PUD ordinance to develop one type of housing, i.e. such as apartment buildings.
He believed that at least three or four Vpes of housing constituted a PUD
development. He also felt that an objective for good PUD planning is to list
housing types and income levels. IN the Chelsea Woods development he said that
they have -one unit selling for $29,400 adjacent to a unit that sells for
58,000.
A discussion ensued regarding park dedication fees and Martin Overhiser stated
that the pari dedit.Uion fees would be inserted into the packet with the
minutes for the cmittee's review.
John, kyle expressed an interest #i) see fi.9 some of the PUD developments in
Plymouth and in the Metro area that wold be examples of good development.
In this regard, Jim fide stated that the Windsor Green complex, developed
by Pemtom, is a good example. It is his understanding that the Windsor Green
complex has always been sold out and a waiting list exists just to get into
this development.
Conversation then centered on getting the committee together on a Saturday to
look at housing projects in the area. Martin Overhiser said that the staff
could provide a list and committee members could view these housing projects
on their own, Roger Barnes also indicated that he would like to tour some of
the Plymouth developments on Saturday, March 30 and he polled the committee
to find out which members would like to go together as a group on this tour.
It was decided that they would meet at the Country Kitchen restaurant on.
Highway 55 in Plymouth at 8:00 a.m. on March 30 with the staff notifying
developers of the committee's intent to tour several of these developments.
Review. Committee Approach
Roger Barnes presented his review of the committee's approach through the use
of an overhead projector. He distributed copies of this approach to the
committee members for their review and critical comment. During the course
of this review, Mr. BakkE stated that a study by MIT was just completed and
it would be helpful for the committee to have access to this study.
Councilman Hunt was of the opinion that two of the factors the committee should
be looking at is to define what low and moderate income levels the committee is
aiming at, and what canstitutes adequate housing. 'He felt these were the
important questions. Chairman Barnes said that the committee would likely
break off into smaller groups and look at various elements within the overall
charge to the committee.
Y
Housing Advisory Committee Minutes March V. 1974
Maroldi Bakke said his first impulse in regards to providing low and moderate
Incom housing was that them is very little that can be done about reducing
the v%st of constroction, and to provide low ari moderate cost housing it will
ba notessary to subsidize this housing. Chairmar, Barnes .stated that while this
may be true, he was of t opinion that we must, as a committee, adequately
document all of our ef%rts so that later committees and/or councils would not
have to go through the soft Occumentatton procedum.
Ruth Ault wished to know what the status of revenue sharing was in Plymouth
and what this money was being ased for. Councilman Hunt stated that last year
Plymouth got e proxinately $80,000 and that this money wat pledged for public
facility item: and has helped to reduce property taxes within the city.
Chairman Barnes statad that committee members should decide which of the six
subtopics in the study outline they would like to work on and then the committee
could break off into subgroups. It was decided that several of these items
under the study -outline cou!4 be consolidated into three items rather than
the original six.
Martin Overhiser stated that HRA representatives from the three coimunities
would be at the next meeting, Thursday, March 28, at the Fox Meadows Office
But1ding No. 1,. at 7:30 p.m.: to give short presentations on how, why, and
what their HRA's are :presently doing. It was decided by the committee that
the staff should write letters to each municipality's HRA representative
that would be at the meeting and give them direction in terms of their presenta-
tion at that meeting.
Adjournment at 11:30 p.m.
Roger Barges, Chairman
10 .
W
Martin Overhiser and Milt Dale,
Project Coordinators