HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 11-20-2013Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
November 20, 2013
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Davis, Commissioners Marc Anderson, Gordon Petrash, Nathan
Robinson, and Bryan Oakley
MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioners Scott Nelson and Dick Kobussen
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Thomson, Senior Planner Shawn Drill, Senior
Planner Marie Darling, Senior Engineering Technician Dan Campbell and Office Support
Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Robinson, to approve the
November 20, 2013 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE NOVEMBER 6, 2013 PLANNING COMMISSION
MEETING MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Petrash, seconded by Commissioner Robinson, to approve the
November 6, 2013 Planning Commission Meeting Minutes. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION
approved.
B. BALANCED BODYWORK LLC (2013100)
MOTION by Commissioner Petrash, seconded by Commissioner Robinson, to approve the
request by Balanced Bodywork LLC for a home occupation license for a massage therapy
business at 5950 Yucca Lane. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. K. HOVNANIAN (2103095)
Chair Davis introduced the request by K. Hovnanian Homes for rezoning and preliminary plat
for Brynwood for property located at 5635 Vicksburg Lane N.
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Commissioner Oakley recused himself from this item.
Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the staff report.
Commissioner Petrash asked if consideration has been given to the additional impact on traffic
and safety with continually approving development. He asked if traffic studies have been done
as Vicksburg Lane obviously is not built for the number of cars resulting from these
developments.
Senior Planner Drill said traffic studies have been done and the city recognizes the need to
reconstruct Vicksburg Lane to a four-lane facility which is why it has been moved up in the
capital improvement program.
Commissioner Petrash stated he would support not having development until the road is
improved because of the construction traffic, and increased road traffic, school buses, emergency
vehicles, etc.
Senior Planner Drill said the Peony Lane/Lawndale connection next year will help relieve traffic.
He added there is a lot of activity due the construction occurring right now.
Commissioner Petrash asked if traffic would be detoured when construction starts.
Senior Engineering Technician Dan Campbell said for a project like this, we would want to keep
Vicksburg Lane open.
Commissioner Anderson asked if the median on 57th Avenue will be landscaped and if so, who
will maintain it.
Senior Planner Drill said the homeowner’s association will maintain the landscaped median as
well as the pool lot and signage.
Commissioner Anderson asked if there is a backup plan if the homeowner’s association does not
maintain the pool or would the city be stuck with the maintenance.
Senior Planner Drill said if that lot went into tax forfeiture, whoever owned it could build on it as
it is a legal lot.
Commissioner Anderson asked if there is a left turn lane into the development going north on
Vicksburg Lane.
Senior Planner Drill said there is not as Vicksburg Lane is a two lane road. He said there is a
right turn lane northbound into Wood Crest.
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Commissioner Anderson noted some areas in the wetland buffer are wider than other areas and
asked if that is due to averaging.
Senior Planner Drill answered affirmatively and said the cumulative average around the wetland
is 30 feet and can range between 10 to 50 feet.
Chairman Davis introduced the applicant, James Hill, Jr., Director of Land Acquisition. Mr. Hill
said he concurs with the staff report and resolutions. Mr. Hill said the development provides for
the Northwest Greenway with an additional area to accommodate the future overpass. Mr. Hill
reviewed the roadways and noted the bifurcated design to quiet neighborhood traffic. He said
the sewer/water connection for the site will occur at Weston Lane, which is currently a
temporary cul-de-sac. Mr. Hill said the trees planted by the Begin Family constitute a strong
amenity and they will preserve as many as possible for privacy and for current neighbors. Mr.
Hill said they are required to remove some trees on the west side for egress, and trees would be
spaded to provide nine additional trees on the south portion. Additional amenities include the
pool facility, a tree-lined boulevard entry, and a fountain in the southeast pond. Mr. Hill said
there is concern about the connection to Weston Lane, and once the sewer is connected there will
be a barricade to prevent construction traffic.
Commissioner Petrash inquired about the timing for each construction phase.
Mr. Hill said grading for the entire site would begin in April and the infrastructure would be
completed in six weeks. Sewer and water and access to the site would be set by July or August ,
and home construction for Phase 1 (30 lots) could begin. He said Phase 2 would be done in 2015
and Phase 3 in 2016.
Commissioner Anderson asked the price range of the homes.
Mr. Hill said prices on the east side would be mid-$500’s, and the remainder would be upper
500 – mid $600’s.
Chair Davis opened the public hearing.
Chairman Davis introduced Andy Dahl, 16000 55th Avenue N. Mr. Dahl said he is concerned
with opening Weston Lane and asked for consideration to redrawing the plat so the road could be
a cul-de-sac on both the Spring Meadows and Brynwood sides. Mr. Dahl said it would be safer
for children, provide more privacy for homeowners, and would prevent additional traffic. He
said Brynwood would have entrances at Dunkirk and Vicksburg Lane, and pointed out that
Wood Crest has only one entrance and exit. Since it is not required, Mr. Dahl asked for the
Commission to consider Weston Lane to not go through. Mr. Dahl said two houses use Weston
Lane as an access and there has been very limited use for the current temporary cul-de-sac. Mr.
Dahl said his neighbor, Paul Nick, voiced concerns to Senior Planner Drill about the tree
removal as they provide a natural barrier between the two neighborhoods. Mr. Dahl said if the
plans are not redrawn, the houses seem very close and there seems to be potential to keep at least
the first row of significant pine trees.
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Chairman Davis introduced Adrian Chiu, 15995 55th Avenue N., who said he concurred with
Mr. Dahl and said he is concerned about safety, traffic and privacy. Mr. Chiu said he appreciates
the developer trying to slow traffic within the new subdivision and he has seen a lot of traffic
coming through Spring Meadows from construction and two new developments in the last two
years. Mr. Chiu asked for consideration slowing traffic on Weston Lane by narrowing it, but
preferably extending it into a cul-de-sac on both sides.
Chairman Davis introduced Tony Kuechle, 15985 55th Ave. N. Mr. Kuechle said he concurs
with Adrian Chiu and the Nick Family regarding removal of trees. He said it is good industry
practice to remove trees for roadways, but not to increase density. Mr. Kuechle said his main
issue is that 55th Avenue was not intended to be a minor collector street. He said 53rd Avenue
was identified as the minor collector for this area. Mr. Kuechle said from a design standard 55th
Avenue is two-three feet narrower than it should be and should have sidewalks on both sides.
Driveways back into the required stopping distance from cars coming off Vicksburg Lane. He
said Spring Meadows does not have the bifurcated roadway and they would love to have that in
their neighborhood – they would love to have stop signs. Mr. Kuechle said the Ryland and
Lennar developments are using their neighborhood as a thoroughfare as there are no stop signs.
Mr. Kuechle said there 175 kids in the 80 homes in their neighborhood. He said he would like
stop signs in their neighborhood, he would like the bifurcation removed at 57th Avenue to give
Spring Meadows some relief so they can ultimately use this neighborhood as a cut through as
well, and he would like to keep Weston Lane restricted for emergency use only.
Chairman Davis said there is a city process for requesting stop signs.
Mr. Kuechle said he has spoken to their city council member and temporary speed signage is up,
but alternative methods such as speed dips would be better.
Chairman Davis introduced Heath Walker, 16030 55th Avenue N. who asked where the
development would drain. Mr. Walker said his property is lower than the development and
wants to make sure the developer is responsible to route that water to appropriate locations. He
reiterated neighbors’ traffic concerns as there are 2.5 kids per house in his neighborhood. The
traffic on 55th Avenue has gotten out of control
Chairman Davis introduced Patrick Reiter, 16040 55th Avenue N. who commended the builder
for keeping trees. Mr. Reiter echoed the sentiments about traffic and said the speed is shocking
at times. Mr. Reiter asked about the square footage of the homes and asked if there are
stipulations on construction type, specifically siding.
Chair Davis closed the public hearing.
Planning Manager Thomson said the Weston Lane connection is a requirement in the subdivision
regulations in order to make the connection between neighborhoods and keep traffic off the
larger roadways.
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Matt Duenwald, MFRA, 14800 28th Ave. N. said it was a challenge on this site to keep drainage
to the wetland to maintain the hydrology as the lots to the south are six feet higher than the
wetland. He said what they are providing is significantly lower, modeled for the 2, 10, 100 and
500 year event. The overflow would go through their system into the storm sewer and then
discharge into the pond. There is a natural ridge on the back yards and water coming from
offsite/onsite would be picked up
Mr. Hill said Hardie Board siding will be used on house fronts and would be an option on all
surfaces. He said the square footage is from 2,934 to 4,100. All homes will have three car
garages.
Planning Manager Thomson discussed traffic in the Spring Meadows development and
concurred with Senior Planner Drill that there is a lot of transition in the area. Planning Manager
Thomson said the expected improvements to Vicksburg Lane, Dunkirk Lane and Peony Lane
will have a positive impact as well as construction being completed. Senior Engineering
Technician Dan Campbell added the city is open to alternate traffic calming situations and
reviews options being tried in different parts of the country.
Commissioner Petrash said we are creating issues not only on Vicksburg Lane but also on side
roads. He said there are a lot more people living here, there will be construction for the next two
years, additional buses, residential traffic, and emergency vehicles. Commissioner Petrash said
he has real concern development is outpacing the transportation frastructure, and we have a
responsibility to consider how fast these developments are coming relative to traffic and safety
issues which will intensify over the next two years. Commissioner Petrash said he feels the city
should put a moratorium on developing these sites until after road construction is complete.
Commissioner Anderson said he is glad to see tree spading on the landscaping plan. He said he
hears what the neighbors are saying at Weston Lane and the southeast corner and would like to
see preservation of four of the nine-inch evergreens (#1029, 1031, 1033 and 1035).
Commissioner Anderson said the traffic issue on 55th Avenue heading westerly is a structural
issue that needs to be solved with stop signs, bumps or troughs but it is not on the plat they are
looking at. He said subdivision regulations say Weston Lane has to go through, and asked if that
is for emergency vehicles and everyday traffic. Commissioner Anderson said he can see it just
for emergency vehicles as people on the south part of Weston Lane can exit 55th Avenue rather
than 57th Avenue to get to Vicksburg Lane.
Senior Planner Drill read, “…neighborhoods shall be interconnected where possible to provide
for emergency access, convenience, dispersal and circulation of traffic to foster community
cohesiveness.”
Commissioner Petrash said this is a great design and he is all for these developments coming to
Plymouth, but will be voting against this because of the traffic condition on Vicksburg Lane.
Commissioner Anderson said it is unfortunate that you don’t build a subdivision until the sewer
pipe is there, but with traffic we do build a subdivision when there is not sufficient capacity on
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the roads. He said municipalities and government will not put money into roads until the need is
there. Commissioner Anderson said it is unfortunate but that is the way it is as it relates to
Vicksburg Lane. He said in 2015 there will be more pressure to get the road done and if the
pressure is less they will put that money somewhere else and push that road project off.
Chairman Davis said the peak selling time for this development will be during the re-
construction of Vicksburg Lane. which would not facilitate selling homes if you can’t get in
there.
Commissioner Robinson discussed the traffic concerns and suggested keeping in touch with the
city about options such as stop signs on 55th and 54th Avenues. He said he is not necessarily for
the two cul-de-sacs on Weston Lane as it is designed to connect for a reason. Commissioner
Robinson said if you see dangerous driving, call the police. He said he has done so in his
neighborhood and they have been there within 20 minutes. Commissioner Robinson said there
have been traffic concerns in every discussion the planning commission has had with proposed
developments. Commissioner Robinson said we are developing very fast in Plymouth, and this
proposal is a smart plan he will support.
MOTION by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Robinson, to approve the
request the request by K. Hovnanian Homes for rezoning and preliminary plat for Brynwood for
property located at 5635 Vicksburg Lane N.
Motion for amendment by Commissioner Anderson that Weston Lane be for emergency
vehicles only and would function as two cul-de-sacs for residents with an approved barrier
device to allow emergency vehicles only. No one seconded the Motion for amendment.
Friendly amendment by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Robinson, to
save four trees on the south lot line (#1029, 1031, 1033 and 1035).
Chairman Davis said he will vote in favor of the motion as it is a good plan and good use of the
property as it is laid out well. He shares Commissioner Petrash’s concerns about traffic but it is
not our place to stop this development because of that concern. Chair Davis said the City
Council will consider that as part of the big picture of Vicksburg Lane and the properties being
developed. Chair Davis said if the property owner wants to develop they can with the
recognition that traffic on Vicksburg Lane will be problematic and the re-construction will be
disruptive.
Roll Call Vote. 3 Ayes. MOTION approved. Commissioner Petrash voting Nay.
Commissioner Oakley recused.)
B. EICHI, INC. (2103096)
Chair Davis introduced the request by Eichi, Inc. for a preliminary plat for Kingsview Heights
5th Addition for one single family lot for property located north of 44th Avenue between Harbor
and Juneau Lanes.
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Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the staff report.
Chairman Davis introduced Martin Harstad. Mr. Harstad said it has taken four years to clear up
the legal question as to ownership issues. He said they have done a Torrens Action which clears
the title, and flushed out anyone who might make a claim of any sort to the property. Mr.
Harstad stated the judge said Eichi has clear and absolute title to the property other than
easements for the power company, the city, and a few minor encroachments to the property
where neighbors have a fence and shed.
Commissioner Petrash asked how long he has owned this property.
Mr. Harstad said his parents, Keith and Diane Harstad, developed Kingsview Heights in 1985.
The property has transferred from his parent’s name into Eichi, Inc. Mr. Harstad and his three
siblings own it after purchasing from their parents.
Commissioner Anderson said this property is guided LA-1 which would allow 2-3 units. He said
it not zoned that way but you could have met the guiding with rezoning and requested 3-4 units.
Commissioner Anderson asked why he did not do that.
Mr. Harstad said he felt one single family home would work best as it is three acres but a narrow
strip of buildable property. Mr. Harstad said you could potentially tuck in another house but
there would an extremely long driveway. He said he recognizes some of the neighbors are
unhappy with the mere fact they are developing at all. He said it would not enhance the value of
this property nor the neighborhood. Mr. Harstad said there are some encroachments by
neighbors on the north side, and they will break off a portion of the back of the lot.
Chair Davis opened the public hearing.
Chairman Davis introduced Richard Meyer, 14515 45th Place N. who said he built his house on
the pond in 1986 and Outlot J which was, according to the builder, a natural site and not part of
the improved outlots in Kingsview Heights. Mr. Meyer said in 1987 Mr. Harstad’s father wanted
to develop the lot and was turned down because the PUD had been approved based on the square
footage of Outlot J. In 2009 Eichi made application and due to ownership questions and maybe
the spirit of that being an outlot on the original approval, the council denied replatting. Mr.
Meyer said there are deer, owls, and fox, and he objects to this proposal because he thought it
would remain natural. Mr. Meyer said there probably was an oversight by the city when the
HOA documents were approved.
Chairman Davis introduced Joseph B. Stanek, 4415 Harbor Lane N. Mr. Stanek said he moved
here in 1995 for the same reasons as Mr. Meyer. He said he would have a direct view where the
proposed house(s) would be. Mr. Meyer said the previous Item 6.A. discussed tree preservation
and this proposal would have a 50% tree loss. There needs to be development sometimes, but
this outlot has been there for a long time and residents bought with their reliance that Outlot J
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would remain a natural area, adjacent to a park-like trail setting. Mr. Stanek said their job as
homeowners is to influence the city to keep these special areas.
Chairman Davis introduced Chester Cizio, 14870 45th Avenue N. who reiterated Mr. Stanek and
Mr. Meyer’s comments. Mr. Cizio said before purchasing he was told there would be absolutely
no building on Outlot J as this would be common land. Mr. Cizio said he has cut grass every
year and picked up trash. Wildlife include a white crane population, deer, fox, flying squirrels,
turtles, American woodcock, opossum, geese, and rabbits and Mr. Cizio said we need to
maintain this pristine area. Mr. Cizio said they have cleaned the woods to keep the buckthorn
down. He said he called the Harstad’s to purchase a small portion of the east side of Outlot J to
have a little more land as they were already cleaning it. He said he had a verbal acceptance of
10,000 but was told by the city he could not purchase it because it was common land. Mr.
Cizio said many of the city’s wetlands are being encroached upon and we feel the burden and
natural resources feel the same result from the traffic and building. He asked the Planning
Commission to reconsider the situation and go back to what was talked about in 2009.
Chairman Davis introduced David Smith, 14899 45th Avenue N., who said one reason he moved
here in 1987 was the neighborhood’s unique abundance of undeveloped and naturally preserved
area and wetlands including Outlot J. He said it would be a shame and disgrace to the
neighborhood and city if Outlot J were developed. Mr. Smith said development would erode the
path of wildlife to and from Turtle Lake Park. Mr. Smith said he and his wife support upholding
the natural aspect of Outlot J as they relied upon it for over 26 years, and it adds value to the
neighborhood setting.
Chairman Davis introduced Michael Jogodka, 4355 Ithaca Lane N. Mr. Jogodka said for this
planned unit development the Harstad family decided to make lot sizes under a certain square
footage, which required common areas. Outlot J is the natural drainage for more than 300
houses, which include Kingsview 2nd and Kings North. Mr. Jogodka said he has seen a 13-inch
rainfall causing this land to be underwater and the road closed on the south end for over two
weeks because of water drainage across the road to the Turtle Lake swamp. Mr. Jogodka said he
was told at the 2009 meeting that the DNR said it will not allow any construction in the area that
is 975.5 feet or less. The pond is at 996 feet and drains at 976. The street at the bottom is 977
feet. Mr. Jogodka stated the street is only one foot higher than the level of drainage at the pond.
Mr. Jogodka said in 2009 the house was proposed on the tree line on the left side, removing
34.7% of the trees and now only 32% of the trees would be removed. Mr. Jogodka said they just
want to sell the lot and don’t know the square footage of the house nor tree removal. He said the
city requires a setback of one foot for every inch of tree that is close to the construction. Mr.
Jogodka asked how you could take out 34.7% and not remove growth that might be on a
neighbor’s property. Mr. Jogodka said he lives in a planned unit development of 200 houses
with an HOA attached to the land. He said there are six lots closer to the pond that the Harstad’s
sold without deeding their property to the HOA. Mr. Jogodka said he pays $160 a month HOA
dues and these six neighbors never paid a dime. He said he pays for walking paths and parks.
Mr. Harstad has claimed ownership of this land but has never mowed it. The city thought it was
Turtle Park and they were cutting the grass for free. Mr. Jogodka said Mr. Harstad’s parents
filed bankruptcy on this land on 2/16/1990 (Case #9040869). Mr. Jogodka said he is confused as
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to who owns the property if they filed bankruptcy, and asked if there is a trustee that should have
been told they filed bankruptcy on the property. With this latest court hearing to claim
ownership, Mr. Harstad filed a court action against the Kingsview Heights HOA saying he owns
it. At that time we got new streets and assessments and Mr. Jogodka asked why the HOA would
want to own the land and pay for the street at that point. When Mr. Harstad went to court to
claim ownership recently, it was never brought up about the federal bankruptcy. Mr. Jogodka
said in 2009 he brought paperwork that came with the HOA that explains that “…the Kingsview
Heights developer shall have the right without the consent of the HOA to add additional real
property to the general plan of the development until December 31, 1989”. Now 24 years later
the son of the original developer wants to sell this drainage pond to someone who will build a
house, which is the lowest piece of land of 300 houses. Mr. Jogodka said he thinks there is a
liability and a title issue and Mr. Harstad has to prove probate. Mr. Jogodka said Mr. Harstad’s
father had Alzheimer’s. He asked how do you do a title transfer with Alzheimer’s, deed it and
rename the ownership of the property and put only $500 value on the transfer. Mr. Jogodka said
with Chapter 11 bankruptcy you are required to pay back to the creditors; you don’t get forgiven
of debt and keep the property
Chairman Davis said that is not an issue for us, and the court papers show he owns the property.
Mr. Jogodka pointed out again they lost their rights to this development on December 31, 1989.
He said if you are adding to this development then you are adding density to the neighborhood.
Mr. Jogodka said you have to lower the valuation of 200 homes in Kingsview Heights because
we got cheated on density.
Chairman Davis introduced Todd Anderson, 4510 Juneau Lane N., who said he bought his home
in 1986. He said he witnessed the relocation and realignment of Juneau Lane. Mr. Anderson
said Hans Hagen said this road would be relocated westerly and Outlot J was a conservation
easement. Mr. Anderson said this was confirmed by Ursula Robertson of Edina Realty and Ted
Hagen. The required outlot was to remain common open space for the approval of Kingsview
2nd. The plat map shows Outlot J designated as an open space and the resolution in 1987
confirms it was a required outlot. Mr. Anderson said the vacating of Juneau Lane was required
for the approval of the Kingsview development and that area became property of Tyrell 2 and
was locked in and defined as the western border of Outlot J. Back in 2009, Mr. Harstad tried to
profess that his father back in the 1980’s wished he could either sell Outlot J to the Hagen’s or
acquire additional property to the west. Mr. Anderson stated those properties were never
contiguous as there was a 70-foot wide city street between them. The city street was added to
Mr. Cizio’s and his property as a contingency on approval of Outlot J forever remaining an
outlot. Mr. Anderson said this demonstrates a reliance by the city that they wanted the outlot
preserved. He said with the realignment of Juneau Lane, the road was curved 90 degrees
creating the easterly peninsula that became Turtle Park, which was required for common open
density for Tyrell 1 townhomes. In the mid-80’s there was a need for sewer and water to be
extended to Kingsview North, and Keith Harstad would not agree to run the sewer and water
supply to Kingsview North. The city had to file a legal action to force the utility extensions.
The intent on this property forever was to meet density. In 1987 the City Council was
unanimously denied development of the outlot and the city did the right thing in 2009. Mr.
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Anderson said Senior Planner Darling alluded there are other reasons for denial beyond
ownership. Mr. Anderson stated this is an issue of purpose and guidance of this property and
this pre-established guidance and purpose travels with the property regardless of who owns it.
The 2009 resolution defines the city code of an outlet and again deemed it to be required for
open space and recites the 1987 resolution. The city bridged two important decisions spanning
22 years. If the city approves this, it is a dangerous, slippery slope. Mr. Anderson said four of
the five outlots listed in the Harstad bankruptcy have been deeded to the city of Plymouth, not
the HOA. Mr. Anderson said there are five outlots owned and maintained by the HOA, five are
owned by the city, and one outlet - under 28-year continued contention - is owned by the
Harstad's. Mr. Anderson stated ownership has never been an issue of denial for this plat.
Attorney Knutson has never said the ownership dispute has been an issue regarding platting.
Chair Davis closed the public hearing.
Chairman Davis asked about the trees being removed as the size of the house is not defined yet.
Senior Planner Darling clarified that based on the concept plan, 32% of trees would be removed.
She said the numbers changed between 2009 and 2013 as they had to reinventory trees and the
trees have grown. This development can cut up to 50% without replanting.
Senior Planner Darling said the tree percentage is based on trees being removed and trees that
have a disturbance of a certain percentage of critical root zone of tree (one foot for each inch for
the diameter of the tree, not circumference).
Planning Manager Thomson asked about the drainage and elevations of the pond. Senior
Engineering Technician Campbell explained what is being proposed is outside of the 100-year
high water level and no wetland would be impacted. The capacity of the pond is not being
affected by the proposal.
Planning Manager Thomson added they would have to keep the lowest floor elevation two feet
above the high water level.
Planning Manager Thomson said with the zoning ordinance adopted in 1996 most of the PUD’s
in the city went away and that removed the density requirements that were attached to Kingsview
Heights.
Planning Manager Thomson said the right-of-way going to the Tyrell subdivision is typical as
right-of-way goes back to where it was attached originally. Senior Engineering Technician
Campbell concurred.
Planning Manager Thomson said regarding the bankruptcy issue, the city attorney has advised
when someone makes application we make sure the applicant owns the property and under state
law we need to review it and act on it. Planning Manager Thomson stated that is what we are in
the process of doing right now.
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Mr. Anderson addressed the idea of guided use irrespective of ownership. He said the 2009
resolution does cite the city code definition of an outlot and does cite that original required use
has a reason of denial independent of title. He said it is grandfathered in, which is the proper
thing to do based on the age of four developments that converged 28 years ago.
Planning Manager Thomson reviewed the Plymouth City Code definition of an outlot and stated
it can be either for future platting or for other public or private uses.
Commissioner Petrash said we are hearing about setbacks and precedents from people who are
emotionally involved and have legitimate concerns. He asked staff how they arrived at
supporting this application.
Senior Planner Darling explained that the city did rescind PUD’s in 1996 so staff is charged with
reviewing preliminary plat applications according to regulations in place today. She said if a
proposal meets the standards outlined in the subdivision regulations then staff would recommend
approval.
Commissioner Oakley said in previous actions on this site, it appears this outlot in the 1985
resolution was designated as open space but somehow fell out of that at a later date.
Senior Planner Darling clarified in 1985 the applicant was approved a PUD development which
is a customized zoning district. The city said for Kingsview Heights PUD up to 2.2 units per
acre could be developed with 214 lots and that’s why in 1987 the city council denied the request
for one additional home on that outlot. Senior Planner Darling said that would have pushed the
total number of lots to 215 homes but density would still have been 2.2 units per acre. In 1996
the city rescinded PUD’s which put Kingsview Heights into a conventional zoning district.
Senior Planner Darling stated staff looks at the regulations in place today.
Commissioner Oakley asked if other common outlots in the city have a consistent pattern of
ownership, or are some owned by an HOA, the city, and/or by a developer.
Senior Planner Darling said in 2007 the city conducted a survey of outlots no longer under
PUD’s to determine how many could be feasibly developed. She said many were owned by
HOA’s and many have conservation easements or clouds on the titles. Senior Planner Darling
said very few can be proposed for development but the city has been approached by HOA’s who
want to sell because they no longer want the responsibility of maintenance and liability. She
added there have been very few cases where a development has been proposed.
Commissioner Anderson said this is a troubling matter with much history. He said residents say
this is common land, there is a conservation easement, and realtors promised that the PUD calls
for this open space. Unfortunately we see some sloppy work with HOA’s not being documented
and the big change in 1996 with the city changing from PUD to straight zoning. Commissioner
Anderson said this threw the city into some confusion and he was on the development side in
those days and there were questions as it created some non-conforming issues and things had to
be sorted out. He said they were sorted out through the comprehensive plan process and
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determination of guiding. Commissioner Anderson said the facts are the guiding is LA-1 and it
is residential – not a park nor an open space. Commissioner Anderson said as a planning
commissioner he is stuck with the guiding. Commissioner Anderson said the city attorney in
2009 stated the city does not have authority to determine legal ownership and once ownership is
determined and if Eichi determines to be owner, they can bring an application in. Commissioner
Anderson said the Torrens process is the process for determining title to land, and there is no
conservation easement nor HOA ownership. Commissioner Anderson concluded we have
guiding, a proper application, ownership established, and it conforms to the subdivision
regulations. Commissioner Anderson said the guiding allows for a higher density, but he heard
some respect for neighbors and difficulty with driveways which would not increase value.
Commissioner Anderson said the one lot use is an appropriate use for this property based on the
facts that we have been given.
Commissioner Oakley said this is not as cut and dried as Commissioner Anderson thinks. The
first document that appears was the development contract which called for a number of open
space lots. Commissioner Oakley said things have happened since then that make this more
complicated, but for any other changes we make, we don’t go back and change existing
developments. He said the city passed a lighting ordinance recently but we didn’t make all non-
conforming businesses change out their lights. Commissioner Oakley said in this instance he has
have not heard anything that convinces him that this is not an open space lot as opposed to an
outlot that is potentially developable. The 1996 changes throw a wrench as it is not clear one
way or the other. Commissioner Oakley stated he will not be supporting this resolution.
Mr. Jogodka said no matter how you vote one factor that does not change is that this whole area
is drainage for 300 or more homes. If it is left open, nobody gets hurt when it floods again. Mr.
Jogodka said we not only have drainage in storm sewers in front yards, a lot of neighborhoods
have storm sewer draining in back yards that go to storm sewers that go to streets. Mr. Jogodka
said someone will scream at the city that they can’t get in to their home because it is flooded.
Mr. Jogodka asked who will be responsible then; you can’t change the water drainage. Mr.
Jogodka said this property should be condemned for water drainage. He said a lot of neighbors
never paid into the HOA funds and if Mr. Harstad wants to claim ownership, he should set up
something with the city and keep it undeveloped.
Mr. Harstad said a lot of people are telling the commission falsehoods and are playing lawyer or
engineer. Mr. Harstad said the public record will clear up what is being said tonight. He said
any time a developer comes before a city they bring up a conceptual plan for approval. The
microfiched memo from Sara McConn who did the concept approval of this property, said
because Outlot J is at the western edge of Kingsview Heights, it does not lend anything to the
development and should be saved and added on to the property to the west. Mr. Harstad said his
parents bought in 1984 and developed in 1985. He said Mr. Anderson stated he bought in 1986
Ms. McConn said this property should be set aside and added to the development. When he
developed all his property he did as the city and attorney requested. Mr. Harstad said there were
more than 11 outlots; Outlots L and M were developed at a later date. Mr. Harstad said the
density really was 214.5. He said his dad held out Outlot J and has paid taxes ever since and
they maintained it. Anytime neighbors called to clear trees, they paid for it, they mowed the
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lawn, and others also mowed. Mr. Harstad said the city sent the bill for street assessments two
years ago and he paid it. He said when Outlot J was platted it was held out of the HOA with full
knowledge of staff at the time and the HOA that it was not going to be part of it. When Tyrell
developed and his father knew he wasn’t going to get it in 1987, he wanted to convert Outlot J
into another lot but was told he had used all the density credits. We were at 214.5 and the City
would not adjust up. Mr. Harstad said there is more to the story and there is a very ugly record
of what went on. The city was trying to get Outlot J for a lower price to put a sewer line in. In
1987 when the city said not only do you not have density credits, you should give Outlot J to the
HOA. Mr. Harstad said his dad was a lawyer but he didn’t do anything about it then. He said
this property was purchased long before his dad had Alzheimer’s. Mr. Harstad said there is a lot
more to this story and that’s why they went to the court to clear this up. It is a property that is
zoned properly and they are not asking for any variances. Notices went to the HOA, the
neighborhood, city and utility companies to claim ownership and clear it up once and for all. Mr.
Harstad said the judge has spoken and they did what the zoning ordinance says they are allowed
to. We should be beyond the ownership issue. Mr. Harstad referenced the bankruptcy and said it
was a Chapter 11 bankruptcy and there were hundreds of properties that were noticed in it and
his parents still own them today.
Commissioner Oakley said the most important part of this issue is that in 1985 the city approved
a development contract for Kingsview Heights PUD for 214 lots for single family homes and
five open space outlots including the subject property, Outlot J. Commissioner Oakley said what
Mr. Harstad said contradicts that. Commissioner Oakley said he will base his decision on what
he has before him and if additional information is presented to the City Council that contradicts
this, then he would encourage the City Council to go that direction.
Mr. Harstad reiterated Planning Manager Thomson’s comment that outlots can be held for future
development as well as for conservation easements, HOA or held for future development like
Outlots L and M.
Commissioner Oakley said in 1985 it was defined as an open space; in 1996 the change should
have considered it as open space and that is how staff reviewed it. Commissioner Oakley stated
he would change that vote if there were additional information that demonstrated that Outlot J
was not in fact ever designated as an open space.
Mr. Harstad said the notice went to the city when they did their Torrens action and if the city
believed it was to be an open space that was their chance to speak to that. He stated that the
Torrens action clears the title of anyone’s claim or right to property.
Mr. Stanek said if a house is built the homebuyer will always have problems with this piece of
property. This will be an eyesore for all of us and property values will be affected because a
problem property is around us. What should be done is not always what can be done and logic
should be used for this unusual piece of property.
Mr. Anderson addressed Mr. Harstad’s comments and said the May 23, 1985 memo between
Sara McConn and Harstad companies confirmed the list of outlots and buildable lots in the
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development and the list included Outlot J. Mr. Anderson said this predates the final contract
and filed map by about 6 weeks. He said the City relied on that representation to do their final
plat map. Mr. Anderson said Keith Harstad could not buy the Hans Hagen property because he
bought it in 1981 which was three years before Harstad’s were in the game. Hans Hagen had
moved from Vicksburg Lane easterly. Mr. Anderson said the plat for Tyrell 2 had been filed and
approved and his lot had been legally defined and because of their development requirement to
vacate Juneau Lane, all of that Juneau Lane property had already come over to the Tyrell plat
that Outlot J could have been added to westerly is false. And easterly is false as there was a city
street between it until it got vacated. The “intent” is documented in both resolutions and the
2009 resolution postdates the repeal of the PUD by 13 years. The intent and purpose of this
property was never contingent on ownership. Whoever won should not change the city’s intent
which was upheld in 2009.
Commissioner Petrash concurred with Commissioner Oakley’s comments.
Commissioner Robinson said there is a lot of history and compelling arguments. It boils down to
2009 when the city denied for a reason. He said the city attorney outlined steps for resolving
ownership and Mr. Harstad went through that court process. Commissioner Robinson said
ownership is now defined and clarified, and the property owner is proceeding according to the
property guidance. Commissioner Robinson said he can understand the position of
Commissioners Oakley and Petrash but he will be in favor of this. Commissioner Robinson said
the City Council will hear this and it is at their discretion to understand the intent and the entire
history. He said these are the key elements in his role to understand what we need to do and
Commissioner Robinson said he will vote in favor.
Mr. Anderson clarified Outlots L and M were officially released from this development before
the final plat map and those lots were never to be part of the density. He said the city never
required it and they were removed.
MOTION by Commissioner Oakley, seconded by Commissioner Petrash, to deny the request
the request by Eichi, Inc. for a preliminary plat for Kingsview Heights 5th Addition for one
single family lot for property located north of 44th Avenue between Harbor and Juneau Lanes.
Roll Call Vote. 2 Ayes. Commissioner Anderson and Commissioner Robinson voting nay.
Chairman Davis said there are compelling arguments on both sides. Mr. Harstad has fulfilled all
the requirements the city has for developing a property. The staff report says it is consistent with
the comprehensive plan, tree preservation and requirements for lots, so from that standpoint it
meets all requirements. Chair Davis said it appears the history of this property intended it to be
open space but through the years things were garbled back and forth as to who owns it, what is
supposed to be and where. He said there are differing opinions on every legal document. Chair
Davis said there is something to be said about open space and tree preservation as amenities of
living in Plymouth, and it would be his preference that the lot stay the way it is. Chair Davis said
we don’t have the discretion to do that based on our legal requirement for approving or denying
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preliminary plats. Chair Davis said this application does meet the requirements and he will
approve it.
Chair Davis voted Nay. MOTION not approved.
MOTION by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Robinson, to approve the
request the request by Eichi, Inc. for a preliminary plat for Kingsview Heights 5th Addition for
one single family lot for property located north of 44th Avenue between Harbor and Juneau
Lanes. Roll Call Vote. 3 Ayes. MOTION approved. Commissioner Oakley and
Commissioner Petrash voting nay.
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. Cancel the December 4, 2013 Planning Commission meeting. Vote. 5 Ayes.
8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Davis, with no objection, to adjourn the meeting at 9:47.