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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Packet 11-08-1990Regular Meeting of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission November 8, 1990, 7:00 p.m. AGENDA 1. Call to Order 2. Approval of Minutes 3. Visitor Presentations a. Athletic Associations b. Staff c. Others 4. Report on Past Council Action a. b. 5. Unfinished Business a. Proposed trail on Co. Rd. 6 from Fernbrook to Juneau b. Proposal to build ice rink c. Special facilities - comprehensive plan - continue discussion d. 1990 project report 6. New Business a. New plats - none. b. C. 7. Commission Presentation 8. Staff Communication 9. Adjournment Next regular PRAC meeting - December 13 Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting October 25, 1990 Page 42 Present: Chair Freels, Commissioners Anderson, Hanson, Rosen, Waage and Beach; staff Bisek, Blank, Moore and Pederson; Councilmember Ricker Absent: 1. CALL TO ORDER Chair Freels called the October meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A motion was made by Commissioner Rosen and seconded by Commissioner Waage to approve the minutes of the September meeting as presented. The motion carried with all ayes. 3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS a. Athletic Associations. None were present at this meeting. b. Staff. Mary Bisek presented the Employee of the Month award to Ellen Keane, who has been employed by the City for four years as a ballet and tap instructor, puppet wagon coordinator, and youth activities instructor/leader. She stated that Ellen's experience has included dancing for 25 years, playing the part of Baby Kermit in the Muppet Babies National Tour, choreographing productions for Wayzata High School, teaching dance at private dance schools, etc. She announced several upcoming programs for winter, including the Old Fashioned Christmas event on December 9 and the third annual Fire and Ice Festival on February 2. The recreation staff will hold their annual planning retreat on Tuesday, October 30, where they brainstorm program offerings for the next year. Mary indicated that evening space in schools is becoming scarce, and that we will be unable to offer our adult open gym during winter quarter because of this. We have, however, been able to secure some space immediately after school in some locations for youth programs, such as karate, which is now being offered immediately after school at Greenwood, Gleason Lake and Sunset Hill. C. Others. None 4. REPORT ON PAST COUNCIL ACTION a. Plavfields. Council approved the final plans and specifications for both Parkers Lake and Bass Lake playfields, but decided not to advertise for bids until after the Financial Task Force makes its report available to them, which is expected sometime in December. Director Blank stated the bidding climate is usually better in January than it would be in late fall. PRAC Minutes, October 1990 Page 43 b. Acquisition of Property at 2047 Forestview Lane. Council authorized the purchase of Norma Lewis's property, which is the final piece of land needed before the City can start planning the redevelopment of West Medicine Lake City Park. There are three other parcels privately owned that are within the boundaries of the park, but they lie on the outside edge and don't pose any problems at this time. The park could be constructed without acquiring them, but Director Blank stated that if their owners did decide to sell, he would recommend purchasing them. 5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS a. Discussion of non-resident use of plavfields. This item was discussed at the September meeting, with representatives of some of the athletic associations. Commissioner Beach was absent that night, and because of her involvement in the Plymouth Soccer Association, it was decided to carry this item over to October's meeting in order to hear her comments. After reviewing the minutes of the September meeting, and conducting a survey of her own, which involved calling the various athletic associations, Carol concluded that charging non-resident fees would generate only about $2,500 and would cause hard feelings. It was the consensus of the Commission to continue with the status quo of not charging fees to non-resident youth using Plymouth facilities at this time. b. 1990 park projects. All 1990 projects are either nearing completion, or are finished now. The archery range in Plymouth Creek Park is finished, the trail along West Medicine Lake Drive is completed, work is done at Swan Lake Park, with the exception of some sodding and dormant seeding, and the trail along 46th Avenue is done. Commissioner Rosen wondered if the City had ever held ribbon cutting or grand opening ceremonies for neighborhood park projects. Director Blank stated that grand openings have been held at Parkers Lake City Park and when the six playfields were built in 1980. The commissioners agreed that it might be nice to have some sort of informal ceremony in the spring for Swan Lake Park. Staff will look into it. C. Special facilities -comprehensive plan -continue discussion__ Director Blank distributed information on the Winona city pool's construction cost and operating budget. This was Winona's first summer with its new aquatic facility, which generated income of $90,000 plus. If they had charged a separate fee to ride the waterslide, they estimate they would have received an additional $30,000 in revenue. Director Blank also discussed the Crystal pool, which had revenue of about $50,000 in 1989. With the addition of two waterslides in 1990, they generated income of $117,000. 6. NEW BUSINESS a. Trail on Co Rd 6 between Fernbrook and Juneau Lane - public meeting. Director Blank explained that this item was referred to PRAC by the City Council, who requested that PRAC hold a public information PRAC Minutes, October 1990 Page 44 meeting on it. The Comprehensive Park and Trail plan proposes that this segment of trail be constructed, and it is staff's feeling that the trail is necessary because of the widening of County Road 6, and due to the fact that an off-road trail will be constructed on the north side of 6 all the way from Co. Rd. 101 to Niagara, at which point it will cross to the south side of Co. 6 and continue west to Juneau. By extending the trail a few more blocks east, it will tie into the trail coming south along Fernbrook, which will eventually extend all the way to the Luce Line. This will provide pedestrians, bikers and joggers safe access to Parkers Lake Park and other points west, as well as giving them a continuous path around Parkers Lake. Mary Kochevar, 14603 County Road 6, wonders why it is necessary to have a trail between Fernbrook and Juneau. It is her opinion that no one will use it, because she doesn't feel it will be safe. She also wanted to know where the people would come from that would be using this trail. She stated that no one lives east of Fernbrook and that its all industrial. Staff responded that trail users could come from the north side of Co. Rd. 6, and proceed east along 6 to the park. She further stated that she and her husband have given up enough property already to the county and city for the widening of 6, and she doesn't feel its fair to ask them to give up more. They have already lost 30 feet to the county and 15 to the city, and now they recently learned that the survey done in 1907 was incorrect, and they're going to have to give up another 27 feet. They would also lose a large cottonwood tree in their front yard if the trail goes through. Ken Neutgens, 14407 County Road 6, stated that he doesn't want the trail either. He feels it would be unsafe for him and his family when they want to leave their driveway, because of the incline and visibility. He also commented on the incorrect survey and how he has been paying taxes on this property, and now that this additional land actually belongs to the City, he wants to be reimbursed for those taxes. He believes he has given up enough land as it is. He also doesn't think anyone will use the trail, because he never sees anyone walking on 6, especially with the widening of the road to four lanes, cars travel at speeds of 50-55 miles per hour now. LeRoy Reinke, 14411 County Road 6, feels that the widening of 6 made for an unsafe condition where his driveway meets the street. He feels that the apron to his driveway slopes up too much, which makes it very difficult to back out of his driveway and see the traffic on 6. He feels that giving up another eight feet for the trail will make this situation even worse. He feels that the trail would have to be crowned where it crosses his property, and he doesn't think that's very safe. He requested that the City put up a privacy fence along people's property if the trail is approved. Henry Willegalle, 1525 Juneau Lane, commented that he doesn't believe the City plans very well when it designs some of its projects. He claims that most pedestrians and bikers come down Juneau Lane, and why didn't the City block Juneau off where it meets 6, rather than blocking Glacier at 6? He feels that the traffic on 6 moves way too fast and that the City should conduct a speed study along the stretch where the trail is proposed. PRAC Minutes, October 1990 Page 45 Terry Groetken, 14530 15th Ave N, asked PRAC and staff if the trail would be off-road if it is rerouted down Juneau, and along 15th Avenue. Staff responded that it would only be a signed trail, just like it is now. Dave Anderson, 1555 Juneau Lane, suggested that staff check on the number of people using Juneau Lane as the means for getting to the Luce Line. Be claims that on any nice Saturday or Sunday afternoon in the summer, he sees 200 or more people walking, biking, or rollerblading down the street in front of his house. He's fed up with how people treat his property, when they pass by on their way to and from Lions Park or the Luce Line. Dogs defecate on his lawn, some dog owners use his driveway as a place for teaching their dog to retrieve, and he's tired of not having any privacy. He's grateful for the privacy fence on the north side of his lot, but isn't very pleased with the idea of pedestrian traffic being permanently rerouted down Juneau. A resident in the audience with a suggestion for getting people to the Luce Line in a safe manner would be to continue the trail down Fernbrook Lane all the way to the Luce Line. Commissioner Rosen wondered how that would solve the problem of going west on 6 if you're coming from the north, such as the residents living in Raths First Addition or those living in Cimarron East. How do these people get to Parkers Lake? Staff member Fred Moore responded that most of these residents would come down Fernbrook, if they live on the east edge of Raths and Cimarron East, and the others would likely go west on 21st and then south on Niagara. Another possibility at some future point would be to go north on Fernbrook, west on 25th all the way to Niagara and then south. At the present time, the trail on 25th doesn't go all the way through. Chair Freels asked commissioners for their comments after hearing from the residents. Commissioner Beach stated that at this time, without having visited the site, she was against the trail on 6 based on what these residents had to say. Commissioner Waage doesn't know what the best solution is at this time. She does believe that people will use County 6 regardless of whether or not there is a trail, but she believes a trail would be safer. Commissioner Rosen stated that he sympathized with the residents, but feels a trail will be necessary at some point, even if it is 'delayed for now. Commissioner Hanson reviewed what the concerns of the residents were: they feel the trail is an invasion of their privacy and property, they believe they've given up enough land already, they want to be reimbursed for the taxes and special assessments they have paid over the years on land they recently learned is not really theirs, and they have safety concerns. Commissioner Hanson agreed with their concerns and stated that if the trail is approved, she wants staff to work them individually to alleviate some of these concerns. She also believes they should be reimbursed for the taxes and special assessments they've paid on land that isn't theirs. Commissioner Anderson feels that the trail will eventually be constructed on 6, and that until it is, people will walk on the street or on private lawns. PRAC Minutes, October 1990 Page 46 Another resident in attendance commented that when she goes for a walk, she chooses the most scenic route, which tends to be the back or side streets. She would never choose to walk on a busy road like County 6 and can't imagine that others would either. Some commissioners commented that people tend to take the shortest distance between two points, and if their objective is to get to Parkers Lake Park from the east, they will walk on 6. Chair Freels suggested that this meeting to give PRAC time to visit to look at the situation prior to of PRAC. item be tabled until the November the site. He did not have a chance the meeting, nor did other members Ken Neutgens said if the trail is constructed, he will not tolerate the snow being shoved into his yard during the winter. Mary Kochevar stated that PRAC doesn't live there 24 hours a day, and they don't understand how emotional this issue is. A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ROSEN AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HANSON TO PUT THE TRAIL ALONG CO. 6 AS SHOWN IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. Discussion continued on whether it was possible to save the tree in the Kochevar's yard. Staff member Fred Moore didn't think so. If fencing or shrubbery is planted as a buffer between the trail and residents' homes, the Park Department would have to fund it. The trail would not go in until next spring. A roll call vote was taken. Commissioners Anderson, Beach, Waage and Freels voted nay. Commissioners Rosen and Hanson voted aye. A MOTION WAS MADE BY CHAIR FREELS AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER WAAGE TO TABLE THIS ISSUE UNTIL NOVEMBER AND TO HAVE STAFF PROVIDE AS MUCH IFORMATION AS POSSIBLE TO PRAC ON TRAFFIC SPEED ON CO. 6 AND APPROXIMATE NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WOULD USE TRAIL. IT WAS FURTHER RECOMMENDED THAT PRAC VISIT THE SITE BEFORE THE NOVEMBER MEETING. The motion to table carried with five ayes. Commissioner Hanson voted nay. b. Request to buy land at Co. Rds. 101 & 24 (Craig Scherber). Mr. Scherber has 87 acres of land at this intersection that he would like the city to buy for playfield as an alternative to a site north of Highway 55. He presented this proposal to the City Council and they referred it to PRAC. Director Blank stated he feels it is in the City's best interest to stick to a site north of Highway 55 as shown in the Comprehensive Plan, which is located at Old 9 and Dunkirk Lane, and is currently being considered by Wayzata School District as a secondary school location. Mr. Scherber explained that the advantage to buying his property is that it is available now, and he is a willing seller. Commissioner Rosen commented that he is in agreement with Director Blank that a site is needed north of Highway 55. PRAC Minutes, October 1990 Page 47 A MOTION WAS MADE BY CHAIR FREELS AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER ANDERSON TO NOT PURCHASE LAND FROM MR. SCHERBER, BUT TO STAY WITH THE SITE AS PROPOSED IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH FIVE AYES. COMMISSIONER HANSON ABSTAINED. c. Proposal to build city ice rink. Director Blank explained that Andrew Benson and Robert Furst wish to build an ice rink in Plymouth on the proposed community center site. They want the City to foot the estimated $3,000,000 bill for constructing it, and then Furst & Benson would operate it, under contract to the City, sharing the profits and losses. One of the men is a former ice rink manager and the other is a financial adviser. Chair Freels commented that if this ice rink is built, he feels it will prevent the community center from ever being constructed. Director Blank responded that the ice rink would be located in the same spot as the community center ice rink, and that the rest of the community center could be added on at a later date. A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ANDERSON AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER BEACH TO FORWARD THIS ITEM TO THE FINANCIAL TASK FORCE FOR FURTHER STUDY AND THEIR RECOMMENDATION. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ALL AYES. Because Mr. Benson was not in attendance at this meeting, further discussion was tabled to the November 8 meeting. 7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION Commissioner Rosen asked if WCCO still had its Good Neighbor program, and if so, how about nominating Barb Edwards. Staff said they believed it did. Director Blank said he would look into this. He also indicated that he would inform PRAC when the Council awards Barb her plaque, so that they can attend that Council meeting. PRAC wanted to know when a new commissioner would be appointed, and Director Blank explained that they would likely do that in January, when they reappoint those members whose terms expire. Commissioner Beach suggested that PRAC start its future meetings at 7 p.m., because of her new work schedule. A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER BEACH AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER HANSON TO BEGIN ALL FUTURE PRAC MEETINGS AT 7 P.M. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ALL AYES. 8. STAFF COMMUNICATION None. 9. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 10 p.m. PLYMOUTH COMPREHENSIVE PLAN - SPECIAL FACILITIES Researched Standards: Golf Courses 1-18 hole course/25,000 people - National Golf Foundation 1985 1-18 hole course/20,000 people - Brauer & Assoc. Minnetonka Comp Plan Outdoor Swimming Pools 1 pool (8,000 to 10,000 sq. ft. water)/ 20,000 people 25 yd. pool (outdoor) Seymour Gold - 1980 Residential Planning & Design 1 pool/20,000 - NRPA 1980 Pools should accommodate 3-5i of total population at a time. 1990 Pon. = 52,939 x 3% = 1,590 people x 5% = 2,647 people 42,930 sa. ft. to 71.464 sq. ft. pool area based upon 27 sq. ft. minimum per person Ex. of pools required: 42,930 = 3.5 pools @ 164 x 75 (50 m) 12.72 pools @ 45 x 75 (25 yd) 71,469 = 5.5 pools @ 164 x 75-(50 m) 21 pools @ 45 x 75 (25 yd) 2010 Pop. = 83,913 x 3% = 2,517 people x 5% = 4,196 people 67,959 sq ft to 113,292 so ft pool area based upon 27 sq. ft. minimum per person Ex. of pools required: 67,959 = 5.5 pools @ 164 x 75 (50 m) 20 pools @ 75 x 45 (25 yd) 113,292 = 9 pools @ 164 x 75 (50 m) 33.5 pools @ 75 x 45 (25 yd) 1 pool/25,000 people - Urban Planning & Design 1975 300,000/year - pool construction (maint.) Univ. of MN Manpower & Manpower I RESEARCH SUMMARY National Golf Foundation 1150 South U.S. Highway One, Jupiter, FL 33477 (407)744-6006 •FAX (407)744.6107 r.o.e.m `two The Growth of U.S. Golf Golf Courses 1970 1975 1978 1979 1980 1981 1982 Golfers 11.2 13.0 14.0 14.6 15.1 15.6 16.0 millions) 1,461 1,748 1,894 1,940 1,957 1,989 2,019 Rounds Played 266 309 337 346 358 368 379 millions) 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 Golf Facilities 10,188 11,370 11,885 11,966 12,005 12,035 12,140 Daily Fee 4,248 5,014 5,271 5,340 5,372 5,428 5,494 Municipal 1,321 1,586 1,742 1,778 1,794 1,818 1,848 Private 4,619 4,770 4,872 4,848 4,839 4,789 4,798 Golf Courses 10,848 12,306 12,684 12,788 R 12,849 12,894 13,013 Daily Fee 4,513 5,473 5,622 5,702 5,741 5,802 5,871 Municipal 1,461 1,748 1,894 1,940 1,957 1,989 2,019 Private 4,874 5,085 5,168 5,146 5,151 5,103 5,123 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 Golfers 16.5 17:0 17.5 20.2 21.7 23.4 24.7 millions) Rounds Played 391 403 415 421 434 487 474 millions) Golf Facilities 12,197 12,278 12,346 12,384 12,407 12,582 12,658 Daily Fee 5,528 5,566 5,573 5,585 5,583 5,748 5,833 Municipal 1,860 1,881 1,912 1,912 1,926 1,937 1,963 Private 4,809 4,831 4,861 4,887 4,898 4,897 4,862 Golf Courses 13,084 13,181 13,254 13,353 13,436 13,626 13,738 Daily Fee 5,915 5,961 5,968 6,004 6,025 6,203 6,296 Municipal 2,032 2,056 2,090 2,098 2,122 2,135 2,166 Private 5,137 5,164 5,196 5,251 5,289 5,288 5,276 RS. 12 (5/90)