HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 09-02-2010MINUTES OF THE PARKS AND RECREATION ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING
September 2, 2010
PRESENT: Commissioners: G. Anderson, M. Riley, A. Vanderwall, J. Zwack
Staff: D. Evans, E. Blank, D. Sankey
ABSENT: Commissioners: N Carroll, J. D. Nelson
City Council Liaison: B. Stein
Planning Commission Liaison: D. Kobusson
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Anderson called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
MOTION was made by Commissioner Riley and seconded by Commissioner Zwack
to approve the June minutes with noted changes. Vote: 4 Ayes. Motion carried.
3. OPEN FORUM
none
4. STAFF UPDATE:
a. Upcoming Community/Special Events.
Superintendent Evans said that Plymouth on Parade will take place on Saturday,
September 25 11:30 to 3:00 pm. Firefighters will kick off the day with a 5K at Fire
Station 2. Family activities in the Lifetime Fitness parking lot include face painting,
petting zoo and the Rotary duck race, plus free ice skating, pool, and gym.
b. NRPA Accreditation Update.
Superintendent Evans reported that in July, staff had three visitors in the office for a
week as part of the National Accreditation process. At the end of the visit, we received
their report that we met all 144 standards. The next step is the formal hearing at the
NRPA conference in October.
c. Hilde Performance Center Update.
Superintendent Evans said things are going well with this project. We are dealing with
issues of wet and muddy soil. A lot of cement has been poured for the vendor area. It
should be completed by the end of October.
d. E -Bikes
Superintendent Evans explained that she just received a letter from Three Rivers Park
District on the E -Bikes subject. They are putting their recommendation on hold until
they do further studies on the impact on trails. We will receive their report.
PRAC Minutes/September 2, 2010
Page 2
Commissioner Riley asked how the Farmers Market is doing. Evans replied that we
have one more week to go. We are averaging 600-700 visitors per week, which is
good for a first year market. We are looking for opportunities to make enhancements
for next year, such as extending through the end of September. We have had
requests for a winter market. We will take a look at this. The focus would be on jams
and jellies and things like that.
Commissioner Anderson commended staff for meeting all 144 standards in the
accreditation process. Superintendent Evans said that not a lot of agencies pass all
144 standards.
5. NEW BUSINESS
a. Maple Creek Trail.
Superintendent Evans gave a background report on the project. Every year, PRAC
takes on a trail project as part of the CIP process. In 2009, there was discussion of
doing the Maple Creek Trail, but PRAC decided to do the Bass Lake Road project and
put Maple Creek in 2010. The budget for trails each year is usually $100,000 -
115,000, but we knew this would cost more, so the CIP was increased to $375,000
for this project. In April, PRAC authorized staff to go forward with a feasibility study
and an open house. We sent out 500 invitations to surrounding neighborhoods to
attend an open house on July 26 to discuss the project and ask questions. We
received mixed responses of support and non-support, both at the meeting and by
email and phone calls. The process was good, and everyone had a voice. The cost of
375,000 was estimated by the Engineering Department at the very early stages of the
process. SRF's feasibility report estimates a construction cost of $1.1 million -$1.5
million to construct the trail. Based on this and the feedback, staff is recommending
that we not proceed with the project.
Barry Warner from SRF presented the feasibility study. He spoke on the needs that
would be met by the trail. The trail project is compliant with the current comprehensive
plan, and it provides an important component in the trail system. He pointed out the
potential trail segments and several alternatives. He also explained how a boardwalk
would be needed to cross the wetland. Trail types could include a paved trail,
unpaved aggregate trail, a non -structured boardwalk, which supports pedestrian use
only, and a structured boardwalk that can handle bicycle traffic.
The project schedule, if approved, would go into design work this fall. The boardwalk
would be constructed in the winter, and the paved or aggregate trail would be
constructed in the spring. Because it is a DNR protected wetland, a formal wetland
finding would be required if the trail proceeds.
Commissioner Vanderwall asked about the earlier proposed Medina Road path in the
northern area. Warner said the crossing of the wetland is a concern and they wanted
to minimize the length of the trail crossing. In addition, the cost would be higher since
PRAC Minutes/September 2, 2010
Page 3
it would be longer. Commissioner Zwack asked what would be involved with the DNR
study. What are the costs, and could the result of the study undo what the City might
plan. Warner said the process depends on who has jurisdiction. This is a DNR
regulated basin. We have tried to stay outside the wetland or provide a boardwalk. It is
likely the boardwalk permit would be granted by the DNR. If there is earth fill within the
wetland project, we would do a delineation, and it would be surveyed. The DNR,
Watershed District, and the City would get together to decide if this is a reasonable
approach and would arrive at a mitigation plan. Chair Anderson asked if fill was an
option for going through a wetland. Warner pointed out three locations where wetland
would be impacted by this project. A bridge, a boardwalk and a permit for fill would
service each of them.
Andrea Vogt, 2945 Weston Lane N, said that she just moved in a year ago and bought
her home with the intent that she would have privacy and nothing would be built in the
open space. The idea of a bike path right behind her is very disturbing. So many
paths in the city need to be maintained. The money should be spent there. She does
not understand the idea of connecting from Dunkirk to retail centers - who would
bring purchased items home along the path? There are already trails through the
neighborhood. She wondered how much acreage would be disturbed. She is very
opposed to this project. She does not want people in her back yard, and feels the
price is outrageous.
Jerry Bowman, 2955 Weston Lane N, is in agreement with Andrea Vogt. He added that
he is concerned about the need to add fill for vehicle access. If the trail level is raised,
he is concerned about flooding. His backyard is flooded in the spring anyway.
Nancy Ahrens, 15920 29th Avenue N, is opposed to the trail in general due to the cost.
The benefit is not great enough for this amount of money. She appreciates the current
trails, but this one is not needed. Segment E would impact her neighbors negatively.
The increase in traffic would negatively impact the wildlife.
Jody Watts, 2870 Zanzibar Lane N, thanked PRAC for considering this trail. She uses
the trail system a lot. She would not be completely against some of the trail, but does
not like the segments that would be close to property lines, such as Segment E.
Keith Martin, 16650 32nd Avenue N, asked what the next step is. Chair Anderson
answered that the purpose of tonight is to take the input from staff and the public and
make a recommendation to the Council to do one of the proposals or perhaps decide
that the time is not right to move forward.
Eric Bjorlin, 2935 Weston Lane N, presented a petition from people who are opposed
to the project. Their reasons to reject it include preservation of the natural area, the
high cost of the project, and protection of privacy for property owners. He is against
the entire project. He pointed out the natural area with the swans, and human activity
can disrupt their breeding. Most of the human activity now happens in the wintertime,
such as snowshoeing and cross-country skiing. He really enjoys observing the
PRAC Minutes/September 2, 2010
Page 4
wildlife.
Brad Troxel, 2890 Zanzibar Lane N, commented that the feasibility study was very
informative. The reason to have a study is to find out if the project is feasible. He is
opposed because of the cost. His property is adjacent to the open space, and he
enjoys the privacy. He wondered if the project would affect the drainage. Barry Warner
said that the floating boardwalk would not impede any flow of the water. Segment E
could have some potential impact, but the hydraulics of the wetlands would not be
affected.
Guy D'Angelico, 16521 30th Avenue N, agreed with most of what had been said. He
does not agree with the design. His counterproposal is to put a section of trail along
Highway 55 to make a circular walking path around the wetlands. This would provide
access to downtown Plymouth. If you add this section, it would be used by the whole
city and it would bring people in just to exercise.
Andrea Johnson, 16680 32nd Avenue N, is opposed to the trail and endorsed many
things said by others tonight. Her question is on water drainage. Her backyard has
had to be redone by the builder twice because of a drainage problem. She is
concerned that hard surfaces on the trail could increase the drainage problem. She
asked that this issue be studied more if the project moves forward. She also asked
about the ongoing costs of maintenance. Chair Anderson said this is routinely
considered as trails are constructed. Andrea asked when we would know what the
additional maintenance would cost and when would it be presented to the City
Council. Director Blank said we have 136 miles of trail, mostly paved. We know what
the ongoing costs are. The largest variable is whether the council chooses to plow the
trail. We plow 95 miles now. Andrea said this trail is unique and may require more
maintenance and policing. She asked that we give some special consideration to
these costs.
Joy Marion, 16655 32nd Avenue N, said she lives right on the edge of this project. She
thought this area was a preserve. She did some garbage pick up and took five bags of
garbage out of it. She is concerned about the impact of additional garbage and
pollution from having more pedestrians visiting the area.
Chair Anderson thanked them all for coming and giving their input. PRAC shares
many of their concerns. The cost and drainage concerns would be taken into account.
Privacy issues are also a concern. He mentioned that positive input has also come in
from the public. He feels that the idea of the trail is a good thing because of the use
that many people would get from it.
Commissioner Zwack asked how long trails in this part of Plymouth have been
planned. Director Blank said that the Comprehensive Trail System was approved in
1982. It is part of the Comprehensive Plan, which is informally approved every five
years and formally approved every ten years, at which time the Metropolitan Council
must approve it. The City has 136 miles of off-road trails and plans to build another 25
PRAC Minutes/September 2, 2010
Page 5
miles. Developers often build trails as they build developments. Gaps develop, which
the City fills in. This trail was originally meant to follow the planned Medina Road. This
was a highly contentious issue because of the wetland. Ultimately, the Council
decided not to build Medina Road. However, the trail connection was left in the
Comprehensive Plan to be considered in future years.
Commissioner Zwack said he appreciates everyone's opinions and ideas. There has
been quite a bit of positive support for the project, too. He lives near a trail in
Plymouth Creek Park. The wildlife is still there. He would be hesitant to decide this on
the wildlife issue.
Commissioner Riley said she is committed that we do the right thing and we should
take time to make the right decision. We have had a lot of positive feedback too. The
main issue is the cost right now. She feels that there is a solution out there that could
create a useful amenity for Plymouth.
Commissioner Zwack said he does not want to do this piecemeal. The cost is hard to
support.
Commissioner Vanderwall thanked everyone for coming out tonight. He agrees with
the other commissioners. He would be a user of this trail segment. From a concept
standpoint, he does like the trail. The cost makes him feel it is unwise at the moment
to go forward. Perhaps we should push the planning off to a later date
MOTION was made by Commissioner Riley to refer the proposal back to staff for
further consideration and study, with hopes of bringing the project more in line with
the resources. Commissioner Zwack seconded.
In further discussion, Chair Anderson said that the cost was a shock when he first saw
it. Perhaps a planned phased approach would be the way to go. Director Blank said
he does not foresee a way to come back with a plan that will bring the cost more in
line with original estimates.
Commissioner Riley asked if there is a way to do it in a phased implementation. We
can search for further allocations to add other segments. Director Blank said that we
may be just postponing the inevitable. Staff feels that this is just not a good way to go
at this time.
Commissioner Zwack asked if the motion could be amended to not proceed with any
of the options presented tonight. Could the dollars allocated for this project be used
someplace else?
Commissioner Vanderwall said he would like to leave the option open to revisit at a
later date. Director Blank explained that this is a Capital Improvement Funding item.
The CIP allocation was $375,000 in 2010 and $130,000 in 2011 for an unnamed
project. If you want to revisit this project, staff would have to put over $1 million in the
PRAC Minutes/September 2, 2010
Page 6
CIP. Staff feels the project should not be built at this time. It could probably come up
in the future for consideration.
Commissioner Riley said she feels we have a responsibility to try to consider the
project and what we can do with the original budget. Blank said the money can be
set aside for future years. Barry Warner said Segment D would be just over $400,000,
with an unstructured boardwalk and with aggregate trail. The depth of the water and
the substrate under the water affects the cost.
Commissioner Zwack said that the smallest option, Segment D with an unstructured
boardwalk would not provide bicycle access. Director Blank said you are faced with
the quandary of whether it is worth doing if it would not sustain bikers. Zwack said in
his opinion it is not worth the money. Chair Anderson said he agrees if it cannot
accommodate bicycles. Blank said that in a few minutes, PRAC will be talking about
the Northwest Greenway, and the costs will also be large. Funding for this is from park
dedication fees. PRAC must make choices. He was a proponent of the Maple Creek
Trail and thought it would be a wonderful asset, but the cost is prohibitive.
Commissioner Riley restated her MOTION to refer the proposal back to staff for
further consideration and study, with hopes of bringing the project more in line with
the resources. Commissioner Zwack seconded. Vote: 4 Nays. Motion failed.
MOTION was made by Commissioner Zwack to recommend to Council that the Maple
Creek Trail project not proceed at this time. Commissioner Riley seconded. Vote: 4
Ayes. Motion carried.
In clarification, Director Blank stated that this would now typically go on the Council's
consent agenda. It is too late to build another trail in 2010. The money stays in the
Park Dedication Fund, and this does not change the City's Master Trail Plan.
b. Northwest Greenway Design - SRF Consulting Barry Warner
Director Blank gave an update on land acquisition. The eastern half of the Greenway
is nearly completely acquired. One small parcel is left. SRF has been working on the
technical side of how the Greenway would be built. This document is about 95%
completed. They will be wrapping it up in the next month or so and then go to City
Council. We will be coming back to PRAC to adopt standards on how the Greenway
will look and be developed.
Barry Warner said the Northwest Greenway is a wonderful project and a challenging
one. In 2002, SRF prepared the initial master plan for the Greenway. The objective is
to tie together open space elements. It can be updated incrementally as development
in the city occurs. The document is designed to be updated with GIS data as it is
collected.
He pointed out features of the master plan such as trailheads with parking areas and
PRAC Minutes/September 2, 2010
Page 7
picnic areas. The Greenway needs to weave through wetland areas and woodlands,
and remain ADA compliant. One of the larger projects would be the crossing of
Vicksburg Lane with a bridge. The topography on either side of Vicksburg climbs. One
bridge proposal is 240 feet long, and the other is 400 feet. The 400 -foot proposal is
more sensitive to the gradient. This is a good chance to have a showcase bridge. It
could provide an opportunity for public art.
West of Vicksburg, the trail could be separated by pedestrian and bike use in portions.
Along Elm Creek wetlands, an equestrian trail could be incorporated next to the
wetland, and a mixed use trail could be built higher on the grade. The grading for the
East Elm Creek Highlands development near Peony Lane is underway. A structured
boardwalk element would go through the Greenway portion here. As the Peony Lane
roadway alignment is chosen, it will have some impact on the trail alignment, too. An
equestrian parking area and activity area could by partially funded by an equestrian
organization. The trail would connect with the Maple Grove trail system on the
northern edge. Potential choices of benches, trash receptacles, kiosks, and logos
were also shown.
There would be approximately seven miles of multi -use trails, two miles of equestrian
trails, and one mile of boardwalk. The cost would be $13.8 million to $18.4 million for
the total finished project in 2010 dollars.
Commissioner Riley asked if administrative and design expenses are included in the
cost. Warner explained that $3 million in additional costs for SRF staff, design and
construction services, and interest are in addition. Riley noted that the price is $2
million per mile. Warner said he believed that is correct. Riley asked about the price
tag on the bridge. Warner said that the 240 -foot version would be about $1 million,
and the 400 -foot version would be about $1.5 million. He said it is a great candidate
for a federal grant because it is a critical link and a safety issue. MNdot is comfortable
with this type of project. Chair Anderson asked about funding for the equestrian area.
Director Blank said that one scenario included parking for horse trailers. A second
scenario would include the Silver Buckle Horse Club moving to the area, and a
clubhouse being built. We might decide not to do either one. Right now, we want to
show everyone what the possibilities are.
Commissioner Riley asked about the Lake Camelot connection into the golf course.
Director Blank said this option is here in case a developer takes the golf course over
at some distant time.
Chair Anderson asked about bike access around Pomerleau Lake. Warner said that
would be accommodated using the main trail system. Blank said that decisions would
be made on how to use the lake area as the development comes up. When the report
is wrapped up, we do want it on the website so people can see it and track it as we
are making progress on this project.
PRAC Minutes/September 2, 2010
Page 8
6. COMMISSIONER UPDATE
Commissioner Zwack announced that he has a new job with Davey Tree. He is working
out of his home office as Director of Technical Services. Their home office is in Ohio.
7. ADJOURNMENT
Chair Anderson entertained the motion to adjourn. MOTION was made by Commissioner
Zwack and seconded by Commissioner Riley. Vote: 4 Ayes. Motion approved. The
meeting adjourned at 9:26 p.m.
The next meeting will be held on October 14 at the Plymouth Ice Center.
Donna Sankey - PRAC recorder