HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 05-08-2003MINUTES OF THE PARK AND RECREATION ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING
May 8, 2003
Page 17
Present: Commissioners Anderson, Aamoth, Fiemann, Meyer, Rezabek, Singer;
staff Abel, Blank, Evans, Pederson
Absent: Commissioner Krahulec
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Anderson called the meeting to order at 7 p.m. in the Council
Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
It was moved by Singer and seconded by Rezabek to approve the minutes
of the April meeting. Motion carried, all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. Representatives were present to discuss Item 6a.
b. Staff. Evans talked about how much our electronic registration had
increased since the last registration period. Evans then discussed the
success of the Yard and Garden Expo. There were 50 paid vendors and 15
non-profit vendors. Last year there were only 30 overall vendors. This shows
a substantial increase. About 1,400 people attended the Expo. Evans has
also been working on the History Fest, which began Thursday, May 8, with
School Days. The general public event will be Saturday, the 10th. There are
approximately 1,600 students attending this year's History Fest School
Days. Primavera was held in mid-April. Over 800 people attended the
event. The event included a poetry slam this year, which was well
received. Evans mentioned that we are a finalist for the Gold Medal
Award. She's working on the 12 -minute video that needs to be sent in next
in order for us to be considered. We also applied for the Sports Illustrated
award, which we hope to hear about in the next couple of months. Sports
Illustrated is recognizing 10 cities in each state and then picking the top
one excelling in sports. If we win, we would be featured in the magazine.
We are working on the Millennium Garden grand opening. We've been
coordinating with the Plymouth Civic League on a matching promotion
for Music in Plymouth and the garden grand opening. Evans displayed the
2003 Music in Plymouth poster. We hope to use the rose from the Music in
Plymouth poster in the Millennium Garden promotional piece.
Anderson was impressed with the article in the Sailor about Plymouth
being a finalist for the Gold Medal Award. Fiemann asked about the next
step after we submit the video. Evans said we wouldn't hear until the
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national conference in October. She said it's fairly typical that a city
doesn't win on its first try, but she's hoping we will be the exception.
c. Others.
4. REPORT ON PAST COUNCIL ACTION
There was no past Council action to report.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Skate park update. Blank explained that the church decided not to enter
into a lease agreement with the City. We have been looking at other
options. We may have found another location within Zachary Playfield for
the skate park, but not the BMX course. It would be under the water tower
in Zachary Playfield. Funding is available. Some underbrush may have to
be cut to make it a little more visible. Blank said $115,000 has been
budgeted for this project. Fiemann agrees we need a skate park on the
east side of town. FIEMANN MOVED AND REZABEK SECONDED A MOTION
THAT THE CITY PROCEED WITH THE SKATE PARK ON THE EAST SIDE OF
PLYMOUTH IF A SUITABLE LOCATION IS FOUND. MOTION CARRIED, AYES
ALL. Rezabek mentioned the indoor skate park on the west side of
Plymouth west of Rainbow.
b. Tobacco free parks update. Blank stated that we are anticipating a work-
study session with the Council in the near future where this topic will be
discussed. Following that study session, at Council direction, the Park
Commission may then draft some type of ordinance. The Tobacco Free
Youth Advisory Group is working with the City Manager to come up with a
date to make a presentation to the Council. Singer cannot attend the
next study session meeting, but will forward a letter expressing her feelings
on this subject to Blank.
c. Gold Medal award update. Blank said that staff has requested that Singer
be in the video, and she accepted. We have reviewed videos of half a
dozen other cities. We must get that final part of the application package
delivered by the 26th or 27th of May.
d. Dog park update. Blank said that work crews have completed the 300
feet of boardwalk. The dog park should open in mid-June. We have had
one neighbor who is against it, because she boards horses and has used
this area in the past to exercise the horses, even though this was not a
legal use of the property. We will now sign the site No Horses, but will try to
find another area where she can continue to exercise them.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. Ice Center - review need for third sheet (referred from Council). Blank
reviewed the process so far on this issue. The Council held its second study
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session on this. They passed a motion directing that PRAC review the need
for a third sheet. There will be another Council study session on this
sometime in late June. This gives PRAC another meeting to discuss this
further if necessary. Blank discussed the materials that had been included
in the agenda packet. Although Providence Academy did not attend the
meeting, they had sent a letter to Blank, outlining their needs for ice time
and their financial pledge of $1 million toward a third sheet. The Figure
Skating Club was invited to attend, but they are very busy with their spring
skating show coming up this weekend, and tonight was their dress
rehearsal. Abel distributed a handout showing what typically goes on at
the Ice Center during an ordinary week in January. Wayzata Youth
Hockey is the major user of the Ice Center. We are also home to the
Wayzata and Armstrong high school Varsity and Jr. Varsity teams, who
practice and hold games there. The Plymouth Pandas run their practices
at the Ice Center as well. Abel feels that the Pandas' membership will
double in the next few years. They currently have 90 members. He said the
largest complaint he gets now is that there isn't enough public open
skating. The schedule showed how Rink A & B are used, and a proposed
scenario for Rink C. It also showed the addition of roughly 72 hours of ice
time. With the oncoming of Providence Academy, we will have much
larger numbers using our ice than Bloomington and Edina, who both have
three ice sheets. There are a few weeks in the spring and the fall when
things are slow, when the ice could be removed and then dry floor events
could be held, Abel said. He feels he could keep three sheets running very
efficiently from September through May. Singer asked if we could remove
the ice on either of the two rinks we now have. Abel said yes, but we only
do it for maintenance at this point. Rink A is the Olympic rink and has a
sand base. Rink B has a concrete floor and is professional size. Abel stated
that his preference for proposed rink C would also be a concrete base
and would be professional size. More often it is the Olympic sheet that is
requested in the summer, Abel said. Singer asked about the sizes of Edina
and Bloomington rinks. Blank said that Bloomington has one Olympic and
two professional rinks. Edina has three professional size rinks. Blank
discussed another handout, which depicted other sports facilities that we
operate and how many children participate in the various sports. Fiemann
stated that he has recently been appointed to the Wayzata Hockey
Board, and Rezabek said he is a hockey coach. Aamoth asked who
might use the third sheet during off peak times. Blank said you could use it
for something like a flea market, roller hockey, indoor soccer, etc.
Fiemann said it is his understanding that a third sheet could be used 11
months out of the year. Anderson then opened the meeting for the public
to make comments.
Mark Brandt, a representative from Wayzata Youth Hockey, stated he's
been the ice scheduler for them for the last five years. They put 60 kids on
a sheet at one time, but they like to keep it under 30 kids to a sheet. They
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also have to use hours that are not very popular with parents. They begin
practice at 6:30 a.m. They are forced to buy ice elsewhere during ice
times that are less than desirable. Outdoor ice time is not an option very
often due to weather extremes. He fully supports the addition of a third
sheet.
John Wellman, Wayzata Hockey Board member, said that he works with
the C league. It's for the kids that don't want to play four or five times a
week. It has 141 kids in it this year. He thinks this program is going to
continue to grow. He supports another sheet of ice and believes the
facility would be busy at all times.
Greg Gibson, President of Wayzata Youth Hockey, discussed how the
program is growing - there were 100 girls completely new to the program
this year. He said they'd like to offer a mite team for girls only. They are
also looking at adding several new travel teams this year. They purchase
ice at many other locations. They would use the ice sheet from October
through March, and use any hours Providence doesn't use. In addition,
they are looking for off-season training opportunities such as summer and
fall camp programs, pre -season open skating, adult men's and women's
leagues, etc. He talked about how competitive the C league program is.
They host tournaments, which brings money in to the City of Plymouth. A
third rink would allow larger tournaments with more teams. They have
made a commitment to fund raise $500,000 at this time. Anderson and
Meyer asked if anyone had come up with long-term figures for 10 years
out. Gibson thinks these three sheets will be heavily used over the long
term. People want to come to Plymouth for a number of reasons - we
have a beautiful facility that is well run, and Wayzata Hockey has a large
following. Aamoth asked about projection numbers - are they population
based? Gibson said they are based on programs being currently offered
and interest levels. Their goal is to keep kids involved. Any level of player
has an opportunity to play in the Wayzata Youth Hockey league in some
form or another, for example, a 14 year old who has never skated can join
the C league. Gibson guaranteed that Wayzata Youth Hockey would buy
all the ice time that Providence doesn't use. As a final comment, Gibson
said he wholeheartedly supports adding a third sheet of ice. Singer
complemented Gibson on his commitment, passion, etc. She said she
understands that there is a need for another ice sheet, but her concern is
for people who are losing their jobs and the current state of the economy.
She said hockey is expensive, and some people may get to the point
where they can't afford it. Gibson said they subsidize some of the
program for the younger kids. A mite pays $95 per year to play. He feels
that the commitment to hockey is stronger than ever. He thinks one of the
things that attracts people to Plymouth are the fine amenities offered
here. This includes the many youth sports opportunities. Fiemann asked
Gibson to discuss the scholarship program. Gibson said they have an
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annual golf outing where they raise $10,000 for scholarships. There is also
an additional scholarship program that was established in memory of a
former board member.
Dean Pospesel has been involved in hockey for 37 years. He is very
grateful for the support provided by the City of Plymouth decision makers.
He had great praise for Bill Abel and how well he manages the Plymouth
Ice Center. He played at Blake when he was 8 years old. They've done
only minor updating to that facility, and it is still used today.
Georgann Wenisch, a resident, has lived in this area since 1987. Her
purpose in attending the meeting was to remind everyone that hockey is
just a small portion of what Plymouth is about. She doesn't think this is the
time to be doing this, considering the economy as it is now. Perhaps a
tenth of the population of Plymouth is involved in hockey, and her feeling
is that the City is not responsible for being the provider of every need for
every person. She brought up problems such as parking, traffic
congestion, and the impact on the wetlands. She urged PRAC and staff
to look ahead 20 or 30 years. She grew up in Brooklyn Center. That city, as
well as several others similar in size, has deteriorated over the years. She
fears that this could happen in Plymouth. She wants PRAC to think about
the families that don't have kids in hockey. This project has a $5 million
dollar price tag. Even with the donations from Providence and Wayzata,
who picks up the tab for the rest? She doesn't feel the taxpayer should be
responsible. She stated that she is a hockey fan and agrees that the
hockey associations do wonderful things for the kids of Plymouth.
Bob Fallen, a representative from Armstrong Youth Hockey, stated that he
supports a third sheet in Plymouth. He said that although their association
is not as large as Wayzata's, they do have need for more ice time.
Bloomington and Edina are recognized as a hub for hockey in the state of
Minnesota. Hockey organizations are constantly looking for multi sheet
facilities for running state and regional tournaments. He mentioned that
Osseo -Maple Grove is one of the 10th largest hockey associations in the
state, and they might also want to schedule ice time through Plymouth.
Singer asked him how many kids are in the Armstrong program. He said
they have 117 in the travel program and 120 in the mite program that do
not travel.
Anderson then asked commissioners for their views on the topic after
hearing what everyone had to say. Where do we want to go with this? Is
there additional information needed? Meyer feels there is a need for a
third sheet. But she is concerned about the financial aspects. Aamoth
wants a better idea of expected participation rates for a third sheet.
Meyer thinks the Wayzata High School might have good figures for 10
years from now. Blank stated that Plymouth has authorized the area north
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and west of Vicksburg and Schmidt Lake Road to remain rural until 2020.
We have 16 athletic associations that we deal with. Only one is Plymouth
based and that's the Plymouth Soccer Association. All other athletic
associations are determined by school district boundaries. The Wayzata
School District would typically look at the growth within the district. There
isn't an exact science for determining projected growth. New programs
cannot form if there's no ice time for them to use, Blank said. We are
charged to run the ice arena. This is a business, and it must be profitable.
Blank said that he and Abel projected about 1,500 hours of ice time on a
third sheet could be sold during the months of October -March. There is
also a possibility that additional hours would be needed during other
months throughout the year. If we sell 1,000 hours of ice at any time, it
becomes a better financial model, Blank said. If the ice rink fails, it falls
back on the taxpayers. The risk of financial failure decreases with a third
sheet of ice. A third sheet will make us more profitable. Singer knows there
is a demand for a third sheet. She is very concerned about being fiscally
responsible, however. Singer has been at both study sessions and she feels
she has enough information to make a decision. She supports more
recreational use and public use of the ice arena. Rezabek agrees there is
a need for a third sheet as well, and he thinks the Council needs to make
a commitment now. Meyer also supports the addition of another sheet
and recommends that the City Council look at options for helping to fund
it.
Fiemann also stated his concern about the finances, and indicated his
support for a third sheet. The Council is the determining body as to
whether or not there is money for this project. Fiemann said he loves it
when he and his son have an opportunity to skate outdoors. But the
window for outdoor skating is very short. Either it's too cold or there's an
inch of water on the ice. He's also involved in the mite program. Of 370
mites, 35 were girls. An all -girls program would be very popular, Fiemann
said. By second grade, girls do not want to play hockey with boys.
Fiemann said that PRAC needs to rely on the Council to see if it's fiscally
possible to do this. Singer asked Abel about the Pandas Skating Club and
what his sense is of their growth. Abel said they have about 90 members
right now in the Pandas. They are the advanced skaters. In addition, we
have 600 kids in the Learn to Skate program. They're running out of ice
time. He foresees the Pandas doubling their membership in the next three
years. Singer asked if there is a formula for selling ice time? Blank said that
when the arena opened the Council passed certain operational policies.
Everything is based on priorities - first priority goes to City public programs,
the second priority is to the school districts, Wayzata Hockey is the third
priority, all other youth organizations in Plymouth are fourth priority,
Plymouth adult groups are the fifth priority, and then non -Plymouth groups
would be the last priority. Blank said we barely get past the third priority,
and available ice time is sold out. Singer asked if we could address those
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priorities and offer more to recreational users? Blank said there's another
factor and that's the number of Plymouth kids in the various programs,
and from that we use a ratio. Aamoth had additional questions about the
projected long-term use of an additional ice sheet. Rezabek offered to
help Aamoth with this question. Anderson agrees there is a demonstrated
need for a third sheet.
REZABEK MOVED THAT PRAC FINDS THERE IS A NEED FOR A THIRD SHEET OF
ICE AND THAT THE CITY COUNCIL BE ASKED TO ADDRESS THE FINANCIAL
MATTERS. MOTION SECONDED BY MEYERS. SINGER AMENDED THE MOTION
TO ADD THAT THE MINUTES OF THIS MEETING BE FORWARDED TO THE CITY
COUNCIL. MOTION CARRIED WITH FIVE AYES. FIEMANN ABSTAINED,
BECAUSE HE IS ON THE WAYZATA HOCKEY BOARD OF DIRECTORS.
7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION
Singer asked about the sailing group and if we'd heard anything from them.
They have made arrangements with Three Rivers Park District and seem to be
happy with the deal, Blank said.
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
The next meeting will be June 12. The July meeting will probably be at the
Plymouth Creek Center.
9. ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at 8:55 p.m.