HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 05-10-2001Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
May 10, 2001
Page 24
Present: Chair Anderson, Commissioners Fiemann, Meyer, Musliner, Singer, Thompson; staff
Bisek, Blank, Pederson; Peterson; Councilmember Hewitt
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Anderson called the May meeting to order at 7 p.m. in the Council Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Singer and seconded by Commissioner Musliner to
approve the minutes of the April meeting as presented. The motion carried with all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present.
b. Staff Mary discussed the History Fest, which began Thursday. The School Days
experienced some rain the first day. The event nuns through Saturday. The spring skate
show is Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, May 11-13. May 18th is the Ballet & Tap Recital
at Armstrong High School. All of these events will be on cable channel 12. The
electronic billboard will be installed in the next couple of weeks on Plymouth Boulevard
and 36th Avenue. Summer staff have been hired. There are a few positions to be filled
yet. We have started to work on fall programming. The Millennium Garden
groundbreaking is May 21. Singer asked Mary which beaches will be staffed this
summer. Mary said East will not be guarded, but West and Parkers will be. Singer asked
if we had set a date for the Chocolate Sampler. Mary said it has been scheduled for
November 1 st.
c. Others. Jacob Stein, 2930 Pilgrim Lane, lives near Sunrise Park. He had a petition from
his friends requesting an ice rink in Sunrise Park next winter. He and his friends will help
shovel it. Singer asked him where he'd like to see it installed. He thinks it could go where
the basketball court is or where the ballfield is. Director Blank explained to Jacob that in
August staff will present to the Park Commission the rinks proposed to be maintained in
the winter. He invited Jacob to come back to that meeting.
4. PAST COUNCIL ACTION
None.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Millennium Garden update. Wording for a plaque that will be placed at the entrance to
the Millennium Garden was shared with the Commission for their review and comments.
The vision statement for the garden was also reviewed. These items will be displayed on
boards at the groundbreaking ceremony. SINGER MOVED TO ACCEPT THE VISION
STATEMENT AS WRITTEN. THOMPSON SECONDED. MOTION CARRIED WITH
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
Page 25
ALL AYES. Director Blank announced that we recently received a $10,000 donation
from Hedberg Aggregate. They also will provide 15% off on rocks, etc. In addition, they
are providing technical expertise on the waterfalls. This puts us over the $100,000 mark
in contributions. We also have a survey company donating surveying and staking. To
date, we've sold over 600 bricks.
b. Hilde Performance Center update. Two meetings have been held recently, an informal
meeting and an EAW meeting. The Planning Commission recommended approval. Site
plan approval is expected by the Council on June 12th. Al Hilde has released some more
money for this project.
c. Greenwood youth sports update. The Council awarded a contract on this two weeks ago.
We are now waiting for signed contracts, insurance, and bonds. Groundbreaking will be
on May 15th. We will be fencing the entire constriction site. This is a $508,000 project.
d. Environmental park playground. Chair Anderson explained the role of the Park and
Recreation Advisory Commission to the environmental playground visitors. Director
Blank stated that this item had been on the PRAC agenda in March, but was tabled until
tonight, to give PRAC more time to visit the site, as well as permit staff time to send
letters to everyone affected by the proposal. Director Blank displayed the area where the
children's playground is proposed. This area was selected, because it is centrally located
within the overall park area, and it would require the least amount of tree removal.
Director Blank then showed some pictures of the site. The property north of this site is
undeveloped at this time. Thompson asked if any other area had been proposed for the
playground other than the yellow square shown on the diagram. Director Blank explained
about the proposed diamond interchange at Schmidt Lake Road, but said it's very long
term. The property on the north side was taken for the interchange and for youth
baseball/softballl fields, and a possible building for the headquarters of the interpretative
center. There is no other development proposed for the park, other than trails. We have
35-37 playgrounds throughout the City. Director Blank then discussed Shiloh Park. This
park has residential property around it, with the closest home about 150 feet away. A
second example is Maple Creek Park. We're less than 100 feet from the closest house in
this park. In the case of the environmental park, the playground will be 200 feet from the
closest house. Turtle Lake Park has the nearest playground to this proposed development.
Here the houses are 400 feet away from the playground. We want to locate playground
near the houses for safety reasons. Fluidyne is on the north end of the proposed
playground. If we move the playground further south, we get into the woods and would
have to remove too many trees, and we would be placing the playground in an isolated
area. We always try to place playgrounds in an open area, visible from the houses.
Musliner asked if we had any issues about the entrances from the north and south.
Director Blank said we always encourage parents to accompany their children to the park.
Director Blank said he went through the neighborhoods looking for other vacant
property. Other than the corner of County Road 9 and Fernbrook Lane, there isn't any
available. The property imediately north of Fernbrook Manor is undeveloped at this time,
but it's possible that a development proposal could come forth, and the City may be able
to develop property there. The options at this time include postponing, looking at
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acquiring additional property, or moving forward with the present proposal. It would cost
150,000 to acquire additional property and would mean moving the playground 150
feet. Thompson brought up the parking issue. Director Blank said our maintenance
vehicles can get in on the trails which are eight feet wide. There will be parking along
Berkshire Lane, 48th Avenue on the north, and 44th Place is available for parking, too.
Meyer asked about the size of the yellow square and the size of the playground. The
distance from the end of the trail to the playground is 400 feet and down 20-30 feet in
elevation. The playground area is 115 feet x 115 feet, or about 20% of the yellow square.
Fiemann asked about the zoning of the north area. Director Blank said it's zoned
residential, single family or townhomes. Fiemann asked why this site was chosen.
Director Blank said he received a letter from the homeowners in the Lundgren Bros.
Development requesting this playground. Anderson asked how long Plymouth has had
ownership of this land. Director Blank said we've had the southern half 12 years and the
northern half about six years. Anderson introduced Sandy Hewitt, the Council liaison to
PRAC and Mark Peterson, Superintendent of Parks.
Bill Hunt, 14220 44th Place, read his letter which was in opposition to the playground.
Some of the reasons for opposing the playground included limited access, no parking,
and not handicapped accessible. He counted 10 slides, jungle gyms, etc. within the
neighborhood. Only two children were playing at the time. He said the playground is
always busy at Plymouth Creek Park, and it's nearby. He has lived at Fernbrook Manor
for 10 years.
Alan Litts, 14180 47th Avenue, is in favor of the playground. The closest park is Turtle
Lake Park, but traffic on Fernbrook makes it very difficult to get there. There are many
children in the development who would use the playground.
Shirley Galvin, 14000 44th Place, has lived at Fernbrook Manor for nine years and has
served on the board of directors for five years. She walked the area from the proposed
site to Berkshire Lane. The trail winds through the woods up and down hills. She
calculated it a mile and a half. This seems like a long ways to walls and difficult for
children. She thinks the playground won't receive a lot of use. There are no children in
the 102 units nearest the proposed site. She thinks it will be a waste of tax dollars, and
disturbing to the wildlife. Instead of using trail, some people may walk between their
units, coming very close to them and walking on their grass. There are six units in each
building. Windows are on one side only of the building and these face the playground.
This is also where the patios and decks are as well. This is a beautiful natural setting that
should be preserved. The open field doesn't seem like a logical place for a playground.
She requested that we please reconsider the location, or else compromise and move it to
the far northeast part of the property. Director Blank said we are now proposing to move
it to the far northeast corner. This is 200 feet fiirther away from where it was originally
proposed.
Lillian Wohlrabe said she would pass on making any comments, because Shirley Galvin
said everything she was going to say.
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
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Peg Matuseski, 14175 47th Avenue, serves as the Vice President of Savannah HOA. She
is very excited about this park. Their neighborhood is five years old. Lundgren told all of
them that this park was going to be built one day. Forty—six families live in the
neighborhood and half of them have pre-school children with stay—at—home moms. On
Thursday mornings, a group of moms get together to visit various parks. It's a mile to
walls to turtle Lake Park. There are 60 children in the area with more on the way. At their
neighborhood picnic, they signed the petition asking for this park. She understands the
feelings of the townhouse people. She's curious about whether or not some of these
people have grandchldren who would use the park. She said their group is pretty calm
when they go to the park. They pick up after themselves. Anderson asked how she would
access the park. She explained the streets she would take to get there.
Sarah Seltz, 4800 Cheshire Lane. Her husband serves on the board of the Savannah
Development. They have a Halloween party every year and block off the street. Two
years ago, at the Halloween party, the host home put out the petition requesting that the
park be built. Of the 46 homes, there are 69 children. Of those, 59 are less than 12 years
old. Right now they walk to Nantere Park and Turtle Lake Park. Both mean crossing busy
streets. They were told when they moved in there would be a park. They were very
surprised to learn of the opposition to the park. She said she sees signs of evidence of
deer in Plymouth Creek Park that are not being disturbed by all the kids that play there. If
the playground could go at the north end, that would be even better, but only if it will
happen sooner than later. Right now her yard is the neighborhood playground.
Beverly Romfo, 14215 44th Place. She lives in Fernbrook Manor and is currently the
President of the Board. At the annual meeting, a hand vote was held. Seventy—five
percent of the people were opposed to the park's location. They have 102 homes in the
complex with only one or two children. When they were moving in back in 1989, they
were told it was going to be a natural park owned by the City. They want it left that way,
or moved to the north and east as far as possible. Councilmember Johnson attended the
meeting and said the property to the north is undeveloped at this time and might be a
possible alternative.
Katherine Hagen, 6345 Main Street, Maple Plain. She is not a resident yet of Fernbrook
Manor but will be in a couple of weeks. She wants the park to be left natural and would
prefer to see a wild flower garden. She says the playground will scare away the deer.
Teach the children about nature.
Anderson talked about moving it to the north and the expense involved. Sara Seltz
pointed out on the graphic where she would like the park to go, but stated only if she
doesn't have to wait too long for it. Blank said the park could be built there. The property
to the north is the Fluidyne property and the trees would isolate the playground. It would
not cost any more to move it to this location. Meyer said most people view playgrounds
as an asset. This area has been slated as being in need of a playground. She feels that the
park would be an asset. Fiemann asked how many acres the entire park is. Director Blank
said 60. Singer asked that since the plan is to move it to the northeast corner, where
would the trail go? Director Blank explained the layout of the trail. Singer said the
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
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elevation is pretty extreme there. Director Blank said there's a path off 44th Avenue and
that would be one entrance. Mark said they could draw a dotted line and say this is where
the trail is going to go, but you end up deciding as you go along. Fiemann said he has a
park near his house and it hasn't had any affect on the wildlife. He is concerned about the
park being close to the townhomes and likes that it has been moved a little farther
northeast. Fiemann wondered if anything else could be done about the trail that goes in to
keep kids from riding bikes across people's yards. Director Blank said we have a number
of situations where trails go between properties, and if it becomes a problem, we put
fences in. Mark said we like to take a wait and see attitutude and make decisions if
necessary. We try to be good neighbors.
SINGER MOVED TO RECOMMEND THAT STAFF PROCEED WITH BUILDING
THIS PARK IN THE PROPOSED LOCATION. MEYER SECONDED. MOTION
CARRIED WITH ALL AYES. This next goes to the Council on May 22nd. Thompson
suggested the Fernbrook Manor people visit with the Turtle Lake HOA about their park,
because it's a similar situation.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. 38th Avenue planting request. Director Blank showed a couple of pictures of the
proposed site for the flower planting along 38th Avenue. Georgann Bestler Wenisch, a
resident of Parkview Ridge Townhomes, then gave a presentation on the project. She
introduced Nancy Palmquist, President of the Parkview Ridge Townhome HOA, Kathy
Osborne, Chair of the Environmental Quality Committee, and Tom Keller, President of
the Parkview Ridge HOA. She stated that they wish to work with the Parks Department,
Environmental Quality Committee and the City to develop a Minnesota native wildflower
showcase garden on the two acre portion of Plymouth Creek Park connected to 38th
Avenue. There are 78 single family homes and 50 townhomes that adjoin or overlook the
site. The site overlooks the wetland which is adjacent to the Millennium Garden, the
Plymouth Creek Center, City Hall, and the amphitheater, etc. She displayed some
photographs of the site, along with a design concept and a list of the wildflowers and
native grass plants that could be used. She also had affidavits of support by residents for
the project. This site was previously shown on the City master plan as a parking lot for
Plymouth Creek Park, and the recently approved comprehensive plan indicates no
pending use of the site, although possible suggestions include another connection to the
Plymouth Creek trail with parking and a sledding hill with parking. The site is officially
part of Plymouth Creek Park and is maintained by the City and the Parks Department.
She explained how the project came about. The three homeowner associations feel very
strongly about the project. They would provide volunteers to help care for it. They
contacted Prairie Restoration to discuss the pros and cons of a native planting project and
to obtain an estimate of possible costs, which came to $5,830. They presented the idea to
the EQC and received that group's unanimous support in April. They would like to have
the endorsement of the Park Commission and a recommendation from this group to the
City Council to implement the project beginning in the summer of 2001.
Kathy Osborne, chair of the EQC, said the EQC is looking for areas to showcase native
plantings, etc. This project was presented to the EQC at their April meeting. They are in
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
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favor of it. There is a budget for the project, but they are looking for some additional
funding from the Park and Recreation Department. The property is owned by the City
and is currently maintained by the City. Watering is a potential issue, but the EQC heard
that the City water trick could come out and water the plants until they get established.
Meyer asked about the cost. The estimated project cost of $5,830 covers preparation of
the soil, plants, seeds, etc. This does not include the cost of plant markers or benches.
They want the City to fiend it at this point. This type of garden is one where once it's
planted, there isn't a lot of maintenance other than to water it at first until it gets
established. At a later time you could maybe add birdhouses, etc. Wenisch said the
neighbors have really come together on this. Fiemann asked if the $5,830 would cover
Prairie Restoration's costs. Wenisch said the quote covered site preparation, seeding,
seeds, plants, and planting. Management is not included in this cost. Tom Keller,
President of Parkview Ridge HOA, said they have total support of all homeowners on
this project. The quote for the work was on the high end. There's room for negotiating.
Thompson complimented the presenters and said this was an outstanding presentation.
She said she wants to be clear on what they want from the City. Wenisch said basically
that some of the funds would come from the EQC and they would like some from the
Park and Recreation Department. Some maintenance would be needed from the City, as
well. Anderson asked where staff stood on this issue. Director Blank said staff is in
support of this 100% and the money is not an issue. Singer asked Director Blank about
the acquisition of the park and about his comments that this may be a parking lot 10 years
from now. She asked if the Commission could redesignate this as a natural area, without
putting any time restrictions on it, or is this just interim use of this property? Director
Blank said you could craft a motion saying that you are changing this to be a natural
wildflower planting area, or you could say this is going to be interim use of this property.
Director Blank reminded the Commission that no sitting council can tie the hands of a
future council. Things could change. Needs might change. A future council can reverse a
former council's decision. Mark Peterson was asked if he has been contacted about this.
He said he is familiar with the property. He thinks there is a fair amount of concrete and
nibble that was dumped in there and he's not sure if the split rail fence is going to remain.
Wenisch said that no one objects to its removal. She said some of the asphalt is beginning
to surface. Peterson thinks a path to the native wildflower planting from the Millennium
Garden would encourage park visitors to visit the wildflower garden, too. He said natural
plantings take time to come to fruition. It takes a while to get rid of what's growing there
now. Peterson reminded the group that planting this area in wildflowers and native
grasses does not exclude them from the noxious weed ordinance. There's also an area
from the curb back that would have to be maintained. Wenisch said there's enough
people who want this to happen that will help to take care of it. Meyer thinks the fence
should remain as part of the project. She said the first few years, the natural garden will
look rough. Singer said she would like to form some sort of motion that would make this
park fit into the comprehensive plan. Anderson was concerned about the maintenance of
it several years from now. Peterson said maintenance will be fairly intense at first. The
first two or three years will require a lot of work.
SINGER MOVED TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL THAT THE TWO
ACRE PORTION OF PLYMOUTH CREEK PARK CONNECTED TO 38TH AVENUE
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
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NORTH BE DEVELOPED AS A MINNESOTA NATIVE WILDFLOWER
SHOWCASE GARDEN. FIEMANN AMENDED MOTION BY ADDING THAT
STAFF WORK WITH THE EQC AND THE THREE HOMEOWNER
ASSOCIATIONS TO DEVELOP A PLAN FOR THIS PROPERTY AND SECURE
THE APPROPRIATE FUNDING RESOURCES. ANDERSON SECONDED
AMENDED MOTION. MOTION CARRIED WITH ALL AYES.
b. Skate park proposal. Earlier this year Council directed staff to proceed to put together a
proposal to develop a skate park. A couple of years prior to this directive from the
Council, a private industry opened an indoor skate park in Plymouth. That park lasted
about 16 months, but rent on the building was more than they could sustain. Then a non—
profit group formed and made a presentation to the City Council. They wanted to use the
equipment from that earlier indoor park. Nothing ever came of that. When PRAC put
together their recommendations for 2001 projects, they included $50,000 for a skate park.
The Council agreed this needed to move forward. Flyers were sent to high school and
middle schools inviting youth to attend a meeting to discuss a possible skate park. An
advisory group grew out of this meeting. They met recently and together with staff
designed a tier one skate park. All of the equipment would be under 36 inches high. It
would have seven different ramps, and two pipe rails. It would all be portable. It can be
rearranged in different configurations. This is designed for an area approximately 100 x
100 feet. The estimated cost for the equipment is $40,000. The extra $10,000 would be
for signage, benches, etc. Staff initially looked at the parking lot behind the Ice Center as
a possible site for the skate park. This parking lot was installed with a concrete surface
rather than asphalt. Staff has also looked at a second site at Elm Creek Playfield. There
are no outdoor hockey rinks in northwest Plymouth, but one is shown on the master plan
for Elm Creek Playfield, east of the softball fields, and south of the children's
playground. Outdoor use of hockey rinks has stayed about the same. Director Blank said
we haven't reached a point where we need another outdoor rink, however, 20 years from
now, an outdoor rink may be necessary. Thompson asked about the proximity of the
closest homes to the Ice Center parking lot. Director Blank showed that the apartment
buildings to the north are about 800 feet away. He then showed some slides of the
proposed location of the skate park behind the Ice Center, along with a couple of slides at
the Elm Creek Playfield where the skate park could go. Reasons for selecting the Ice
Center include: proximity to the Ice Center provides parking, staff, concessions, and the
police department is close by. Opposition to this location includes: increased traffic to
and from the site, possible disturbance to wildlife, loss of enjoyment of park when
walking on trail, conflicts with swimmers at the outdoor pool, and noise. Director Blank
stated that the Ice Center is centrally located within Plymouth, whereas Elm Creek
Playfield is in the northwest portion of Plymouth. The fiirther you move it to the west, the
farther away it is from the kids who will be using it. Directed Blank stated that if PRAC
recommends Elm Creek Playfield, then PRAC also needs to direct staff to find a site in
southeast Plymouth, too. Fiemann asked about the typical months of operation and the
hours. Director Blank said in a typical year it would be open from May 15 to September
10th. For this year, it wouldn't open until June 15th, and it would close around September
5 or so, or when the kids go back to school. Hours may be 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. We are also
waiting to hear from the Wayzata School District to see if we could use part of their
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
Page 31
existing parking lot as a possible location this summer. To build it and recreate it on the
grass area would require asphalt, and that would cost $30,000—$60,000 more. Fiemann
said we haven't had any experience running this, and he wondered if we should test it in a
temporary spot first? Thompson thinks if it's designed the way it's proposed, it could be
moved elsewhere. Musliner said she thinks it should be at the Ice Center for now since
it's a temporary stricture, and for the reasons staff stated including supervision, the
central location, its close proximity to the police station, etc.
Danielle Steele, 14835 38th Avenue. This location does not support what she wants in a
central park. She thinks this is a very expensive venture as a temporary thing. If the City
is going to get into this business, put it in a place where it can stay permanently. Liability
is an issue. Without supervision, serious injuries could occur. More research needs to be
done.
Anne Marie Hennen, 1513 5 3 8th Avenue. She wants the City to reconsider placement of
the skate park behind the Ice Center. She believes we're trying to do too much in too little
space. Wildlife has been affected by the expansion of downtown development. Deer do
not come back right away. It's not a good idea to allow 5 year olds to play with older
kids. She imagines kids falling and being injured. If staff decides to go forward with the
skate park she suggests that kids register each time they enter the park, that parents of
users be asked to donate time to chaperone at least two hours per week, that if a
participant is asked to leave for any reason, they cannot return for at least two weeks, that
all participants must wear protective gear, and that it be limited to Plymouth residents for
the first year.
Ralph Durand, 15145 38th Avenue. He stated that he appreciated the community meeting
Director Blank held two weeks ago. He feels the skate park should be evaluated after a
year. He can't imagine that the 19 year old group will be happy with the same equipment
a 5 year old uses. If it's going to be successful, he thinks we will need to have one for the
young group and one for the older group. He is concenred that it would end up being
expanded after a while. Noise will be a factor. If it's extremely successful, there will be
even more noise. Why take the central park of Plymouth and present a situation that will
create noise. Ballfields are built for noise and you expect noise there. The proper location
ought to be in an area where noise is acceptable, like a ballfield. LifeTime is so
successful that it's hard to contain. There's so much extra traffic. If you're going to test it
somewhere, use Elm Creek Playfield.
Tom Resick, 15160 38th Avenue. His main concern is noise. At the community meeting
Director Blank proposed that there would be loudness standards and behavior standards.
He has a grandson who skateboards. Even meeting the standards, it's a noisy proposition.
Skateboards slamming down on concrete will be loud. Traffic is getting very congested in
this area. Safety is an issue. He strongly urged PRAC to consider Elm Creek Playfield
instead of the Ice Center parking lot.
Karen Bass, 15150 38th Avenue. She is concerned about the noise. She fights traffic to
get home from downtown, so she savors the quiet once she does get home. She enjoys
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
Page 32
walking on the path. She is concerned about the safety of the children coming here. She
realizes that we need an area for this, but wants another site considered.
Ray Knoss, 15105 38th Avenue. He is strongly opposed to the skate park being behind
the Ice Center. Noise could become intolerable. Not only will there be noise from wheels
on pavement but the slamming down on the concrete when they jump. A skate board park
is not compatible with the Millennium Garden. This is the crown jewel of the City
Center. He feels that a skate park will ruin this feeling.
Brent Hughes, 14910 38th Avenue, had questions about liability. Director Blank said the
skate park would not affect the rates the City pays. How many injuries have to occur
before the rates would change? He lives on the corner of 38th & Minnesota Lane. He has
seen an increase in traffic with the development that has been going on. He thinks this is
a bad combination. There will be more traffic.
Doug Sanders, 14905 38th Avenue, grew up in the Plymouth area. He remembers a
mixture of age groups having a clash at Cottonwood Plaza a few years ago. The City
closed it down after a year and a half. He thinks it's a bad idea to mix age groups.
Becky Griffin, 14925 38th Avenue, opposes the skate park. She thinks we're attracting
people from outside our community, and crime is on the rise. Her car has been stolen
from her parking lot. She's also very concerned about noise, because it's fiun to
skateboard with a boombox.
Chair Anderson said the City has been looking at this issue for five years or so.
Thompson said our City is behind other cities who already have skate parks. She stated
that anytime anything is proposed for teenagers, the reaction from the community is
negative. We build things for preschoolers, senior citizens, etc. The teens are being left
out. We have to find some good recreation opportunities for these kids. She is against the
high school location, beause it's totally unsupervised. Her recommendation is to give this
a temporary try. Director Blank said he called the high school superintendent about trying
it in their parking lot. He hasn't gotten back to us. Meyer said we already have the fiends
for the facility, and we could move it without additional cost. Singer said her boys are
now in their 20's and they were skateboarders. She feels that the kids need something.
She urged the group to go to the skate park in Brooklyn Park or Brooklyn Center and
observe what goes on. Yes, it was noisy, she stated. She agrees that we need to provide
something for the teens in a place where they can bike or walls. Chair Anderson says
Hopkins has an ideal location for their skate park— beneath the freeway.
Resick says this was very short notice for them. He thinks PRAC has had preconceptions
about this and wasn't really interested in listening to what the residents had to say.
Durand agrees that something needs to be done for teens. He thinks we're doing a pretty
good job with the soccer fields, baseball fields, etc. He understands there won't be people
standing out there supervising. Director Blank said we're not planning to have someone
out there. He thinks supervision needs to be provided. What happens if a 10 year old is
injuured by a 19 year old and the city is sued? Director Blank said the City is liable for all
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
Page 33
of its property, roads, etc. The Minnesota League of Cities has developed an insurance
program covering 36" skate parks, where injuries are comparable to broken legs on
soccer fields, or getting a baseball in the face, etc. Just about every public entity in the
state is insured by the League said Director Blank. To attract people to work for us we
need to pay at least $10 an hour. Supervision would, therefore, cost about $10,000 for the
summer season.
Singer said moving it to the Elm Creek Playfield limits the number of kids that can get
there. Durand stated that 100 kids a day is not a very big audience for this. If it was
moved to the Elm Creek Playfield, maybe half the kids would still find a way to get there.
Hennen said we cannot be all things for all people. She raised four boys. She never felt it
was the City's obligation to meet their recreation needs. It was her responsibility to get
her kids to things, and if parents want their children using a skate park, she feels it's their
responsibility to transport them, even if that means driving to Elm Creek Playfield. She
mentioned that 30-50 kids requested this. How will the shopkeepers feel about these kids
hanging around the downtown area? This could end up being a dump and run park.
Steele said she doesn't feel that the public's opinion is being supported. Fiemann said he
has been on the Commission for a number of years and that the commission deals with
contentious issues all the time. He has been persuaded by the residents that the skate park
belongs elsewhere. Someone asked if any other central vacant lot could be considered?
Director Blank said we own this parking lot. Is there pressure from LifeTime Fitness to
put it there? Director Blank said no. Another resident asked if it was possible to table this
for one more month or one year and investigate other places where we could have
someone certified to supervise and trained to handle injuries, etc. Director Blank said he
was directed to put together a program for a skate park this summer. Singer said the one
in Brooklyn Park is next to the City Hall, the Police Department, etc. The supervision is
not on site, but nearby. The experience there was a good one. Older kids helped younger
kids. Parents were there with their young kids. Singer said the Commission does hear
residents' concerns.
MEYER MOVED TO RECOMMEND THAT THE SKATE PARK BE PLACED AT
THE ICE CENTER PARKING LOT AND AFTER A YEAR STAFF IS TO COME
BACK WITH AN EVALUATION. ANDERSON SECONDED. THE MOTION
CARRIED WITH FIVE AYES. Fiemamn voted nay, because of the noise factor. He
thinks the noise will carry too far.
SINGER MOVED TO RECOMMEND THAT THE HOURS BE LIMITED AND THE
SKATE PARK SHOULD CLOSE AT 8 P.M. FIEMANN SECONDED. MOTION
CARRIED WITH ALL AYES.
It was then suggested by a resident that staff get feedback from the residents as part of the
evaluation process. It was also suggested that staff come up with criteria that will be used
to evaluate the operation of the skate park and present it to the City Council at the same
time the skate park is presented. A resident asked what that criteria will include. Singer
PRAC Minutes/May 2001
Page 34
and Fiemann suggested noise levels, the number of injuries, attendance figures, traffic,
etc. Staff said they will try to come up with something by the Council meeting on the
22nd of May. Director Blank said that at the meeting on the 22nd, the kids will be there
along with their parents. Councilmember Hewitt said the kids need to be forwarned that
they might hear unfavorable remarks by these same people that were here tonight.
Director Blank said he has contacted a company that does noise studies. We don't have
any scientific data on noise at this point. Director Blank may put a camera in at this site
for security purposes. We may be putting cameras in our other parking lots at the Ice
Center, also.
7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION
None.
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
Director Blank needs commissioners at the May 22nd meeting to help with the skate park
presentation. Anderson will try to be there. Singer will try to be there, too.
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 10:35 p.m.