HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 03-08-2001Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
March 8, 2001
Page 10
Present: Chair Anderson, Commissioners Fiemann, Meyer, Musliner, Singer; staff Blank,
Pederson, Peterson; George Watson of Brauer & Associates
Absent: Commissioner Thompson
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Anderson called the March meeting to order at 7 p.m. in the Council Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Singer and seconded by Commissioner Musliner to
approve the minutes of the February meeting as presented. The motion carried with all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present.
b. Staff There were no presentations by staff
c. Others. There were no other visitors.
4. PAST COUNCIL ACTION
The City Council accepted the PRAC 2000 annual report, approved Plymouth Creels Center
fees for 2001, and approved the electronic bulletin board to be installed on Plymouth
Boulevard & 36th Avenue in front of the Ice Center.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Millennium Garden update. Director Blank stated that we continue our fiundraising. We
received a letter from Fingerhut, and we are receiving money from them. A playground
manufacturer may make a donation. Groundbreaking is set for May 21 at 6 p.m. March
and April water bills will include a letter from Mayor Tierney reminding residents to buy
bricks. Brick sale cut off is May 21, which will allow us time to get them inscribed.
Mayor Tierney is still out raising money. Douglas Own Pike is putting finishing touches
on plant materials. A lot of behind the scenes detail work is going on. George Watson of
Brauer and Associates then made a brief presentation. He had small versions of the
garden plan. He also distributed a list of planting materials. He pointed out where the
activity center building is located on the drawing. He explained that the garden is
between a built and natural environment. There will be a mix of built and natural spaces
to accommodate individual and group users. The plan is to bridge the gap between the
natural and the built. The gradation is going to be from the activity building out to the
grand lawn out to the natural area. One of the key areas is the water course. It will be
fairly natural with native plantings. It will be a very interesting area. He showed an image
of what the grand lawn may look like. He pointed out the dedication area and where the
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bricks will be placed in the pavement around the pond. The overall layout plan shows
what will be built. The grand lawn is in phase 1. There may be a fountain in the pond.
There will be a wrought iron fence separating the grand lawn area from the dedication
area. This will also be a backdrop for the roses. All the stone walls will be masonry.
There will be benches to sit on to view activities taking place on the grand lawn and they
will also look out over Plymouth Creek Park. There's going to be a lot of rock areas.
There will be three different levels of water areas. This water system can be built in
phases. Singer asked if this is going to be visible from the second floor of the activity
center. Director Blank says you will see the upper level of it, but you would need to go
out on the deck to see the whole thing. The overall garden concept is one of providing
people with an example of how you can use nature in the landscape. The outer most
portion will be native materials. There will be an area for perennials and annuals as well.
These may be designed by those wishing to donate the materials. We wanted these folks
to have a hand in designing. Dundee Nursery has agreed to take a portion of the garden as
their donation and their designers will design it, but it has to match the rest of the area.
Meyer asked about an area that was hard to decipher from the plan. George said it tells
how many plants and what type they are. Mark Peterson has a set of full size plant plans
and a plant material key. It's different types of herbaceous materials. Singer asked about
an area in the drawings called Prairie Creek Center. Watson explained that it was a error
and should be labeled Plymouth Creek Center.
b. Hilde Performance Center update. Director Blank explained that the City Council is
having a work session on the 20th of March prior to their Council meeting. Mr. Hilde will
be meeting with the constriction people. The Planning Department is going ahead with
environmental assessment worksheet. Mr. Hilde was convinced that a basement is
necessary, but he will not pay for an elevator. The basement will be unfinished at this
time. That will be City's responsibility. There will be handicapped access from the lower
level to upper level.
c. Greenwood School field improvements. Bids will be opened on April 3. The plan is to
begin constriction on May 1. The Forestry department will begin clearing trees. We'll
put up a temporary fence to keep the kids away from the constriction area. The
associations have been asked to get their contributions in as soon as possible.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. Review environmental park playground location. Director Blank reviewed the history of
this project for the Commission and the visitors. This walking neighborhood is bounded
by 494 on the east, Fernbrook on the west, County Road 9 on the south, and Schmidt
Lake Road on the north. In 1984 residents asked to have the neighborhood park
expanded. Neighborhood parks are typically 8-12 acres in size. The Park Commission
toured the site and did recommend expanding acquisition in this area. For the past 15
years we have been acquiring additional property. About four years ago, the Council
authorized acquisition of the north piece. The entire property now totals about 80 acres.
Director Blank showed the outline of the area using the overhead camera. None of the
residential developments were there at that time. There is a Lundgren Bros. development
on the north with townhouses in between. The parcel to the north in the official plan
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shows four small baseball fields, and a walking path leading to the cul—de—sac, a future
outdoor education center, and parking lot. In the comprehensive plan this is listed as a
special use park. This wasn't part of the open space plan. The secondary purpose is to
serve as a neighborhood park. In the plan the playground is to be in a clearing about
halfway between the north and south entrance. A trail will come down from the north.
The plan is to bring all trails to the children's playground area. Director Blank displayed
a plan for the play stricture. The playground is 112 feet long and 79 feet wide. There
would be two pieces of equipment designed for ages 2-5 and ages 6-12. This is a typical
installation. We have 25 similar playgrounds elsewhere throughout the city. It is all
handicapped accessible, with an appropriate surface to meet ADA requirements. There is
an undeveloped piece of property to the north. Director Blank anticipates that 10-20 acres
will be developed in the future. He said we can postpone constriction to see if we can
acquire any additional park land. The second option is to look at a more northerly site for
the playground, which moves it a greater distance away. It is also very secluded by
woods. Staff is not comfortable with this option. The third option is to go further south.
This would require a fair amount of tree removal. This is why staff chose the clear area
for the playground. Feimann asked where the nearest other park is. Turtle Lake park is
about five blocks west. The playground area is about an acre in size. An acre is 100 x 400
feet. Singer asked if the yellow square is just for the playground. Director Blank said yes
and pointed out where the ball fields will be. Meyer asked about use. Director Blank said
when a playground is brand new it receives the most heavy use. Typically moms with
pre—school kids come and stay about 45 minutes. They visit in small groups. Anderson
asked about the area to the west of the yellow square. Director Blank said the townhouses
went in around 1989. Meyer questioned what's in the yellow squared area now. Director
Blank displayed some photographs showing what this area presently looks like. The trail
that runs between the townhouses will be asphalt. There is a trail already there to a
certain point. Our property starts 100 feet downhill from the edge of the trees. The
property starts 150 feet from the townhouses. Park Superintendent Peterson said this is
the flattest portion of the property. Musliner asked if anyone wants the playground at this
time. Director Blank said we have received some calls and letters from people asking
about it. It is in the CIP for this year. People paid park dedication for this when they
purchased their property. Chair Anderson invited citizens to speak.
Don Pfaffe, 14005 44th Place. He contacted Mark and subsequently Mark visited his
home to answer his questions. They appreciated the fact that the City bought this land. He
doesn't have any objection to the playground. He does quite a bit of walking in the area.
He agrees that playgrounds are used by families with small children.
Jason Glashan, 14000 44th Place. He did not receive the first letter about the project, but
he did get a second letter. He is concerned with the parking issue. He knows people will
drive to the park. He was told this is pretty much a done deal. Another concern is how
many children are actually in the area that will be using the facility. He lives west of
where the playground would be going up, in the building along side the walking path.
Beverly Romfo, 14215 44th Place. She is gratefi l for all the information she received.
This has been discussed at their board meeting. She doesn't think there are more than one
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or two children in the area. She wanted to know when the rest of the trails will be built. A
major concern is a three season porch on one of the buildings that is very near one of the
trail accesses. She is also concerned about the wildlife being forced out.
Shirley Galvin, 14000 44th Place. She has served on the Fernbrook Manor board for five
years. There are 102 homes in Fernbrook Manor with only two children. These units are
not geared to families. People are upset about it. The general feeling from homeowners is
that the playground will impact them in a negative way. The area is very private,
peaceful, quiet, and good for watching the wildlife. She has done several homeowner
surveys about what people like about living there and those are the answers they give.
The neighborhoods with kids to the north and south are pretty far away. She thinks those
people will not walls that far to get to the playground. There are no bathroom facilities.
Some homes to the west already have a park nearby. If they come to this park, they will
walls across yards. This site is very close to their building.
Tracy Craton, 14000 44th Place. She has one of the two kids living in the area. Her son
is 11 and says he would not use the facility. She is concerned that the area's homeowners
would be the ones watching what's going on, rather than the parents of the small
children. Children do not observe property lines very well. She feels the playground
should be moved closer to where children will live. She asked her son how he feels about
playground, and he isn't in favor of it. He prefers to play in the wooded area there. She
stated that people will have to walls through wooded areas to get to this playground.
Lee Hermanson, 14010 44th Place. He lives in Fernbrook Manor right on the edge of
proposed park area. Are people going to walls across his lawn or will they use the path? It
would be more direct for people to walls on his property. He'd like to see area remain the
way it is.
Dan Schuh, 14010 44th Place. He lives in Fernbrook Manor and has the same concerns as
everyone else. He thinks a spot to the north should be considered. The paved path that
goes in there now is through an area that is only 30 to 40 feet wide. He thinks many trees
would have to be cut down. He brought up the bathroom issue, also.
Arlette Parnell, 14000 44th Place. She is one of the unit owners. She has the three season
porch. At the end of the pathway is a deep ravine. She says some trees will have to be cut
down. She wants project moved where it's more suitable or delayed.
Karen Minge, 14020 44th Place. She has one concern — parties by teenagers in this area.
Linda Bliss, 14020 44th Place. She lives in an end unit looking down on the park. Has
seen up to 12 deer in this area. Her neighbor who lives below her has seen a red fox. She
doesn't want to see area ruined. Fiemann asked her when she sees the deer. She said at
sunrise until about 8:30 sometimes. She fears that the deer will leave if the playground
goes in.
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Page 14
Director Blank addressed the concerns raised by the residents. He explained that only one
in four neighborhoods usually has parking. Neighborhood parks are generally designed as
a walls—to facility. The idea is to locate parks within three to four blocks of where people
live, so they can walk there. It hasn't been our experience that parking is a problem in
neighborhood parks. We do not know how many kids are living here, but when census
data comes in we'll have a better idea. We did budget $90,000 this year for trail upgrade.
We plan to put in all three trails. We will be crossing the Fluidyne property. He stated
that our experience is that the wildlife will not leave. The driveway from Schmidt Lake
Road may lead to a building that would serve as the education center. Director Blank
explained that this site was pristine before the houses were built. The wildlife resettled
after these homes were constricted. There's a herd of 22 deer living around City Hall.
The ultimate development of this property over the next 10 years will be for outdoor
education. Our practices have been to encourage wildlife to remain. Regarding bathrooms
we do not put in electricity, etc. A satellite would be placed here about 10 weeks out of
the year. Visitors are usually small children with moms who stay about an hour. Safety is
our number one concern. The nature of our society today is such that we can't afford to
put things in isolated sites. We rely on the local neighborhood to take care of the kids.
We prefer not to move the playground to a more isolated site. We use the crime watch
philosophy — neighbors watching neighbors. Police reserves are in the parks during the
summer months along with park patrols.
Shirley Galvin asked for clarification on the wildlife — she thinks they will move where
the residents will be unable to enjoy them once the playground is installed. Director
Blank said the deer are always standing around by the Fieldhouse every evening at
sundown. They have gotten used to the people coming and going. Mark manages the deer
herds for the City. He stated that from time to time they have to be removed.
Mark said all of our playgrounds have woodchip surfaces. The central path that comes
through will be asphalt. An example of a very similar park in northeastern Plymouth is
Three Ponds Park, south of County Road 10, east of Zachary Lane. We have learned that
the wildlife adapts. Our deer are completely urbanized.
Don Pfaffe stated that his family moved here about 40 years ago. Prior to that they biked
to this area. He said he has no fear about the wildlife moving away.
Singer explained to the residents that every member of the Park Commission is a citizen
of the city. She explained that she makes her recommendations based on whether or not
she would want this in her neighborhood. She then asked Mark if the topography can
handle moving this 50 feet to the south. Mark said there is a ditch that might be a
problem. A lot of trees would have to be removed, and then the playground would be in a
more secluded spot.
Anderson talked about the issue of the trees. Fiemann agreed that no trees should be cut.
Musliner asked for an explanation of the ball fields. Director Blank pointed out the
intersection of Schmidt Lake Road and 494. The City has acquired property on all four
PRAC Minutes/March 2001
Page 15
corners here. There is a diamond interchange here shown by the City. The Federal
highway plan does not show an interchange here. The Carlson interchange was not shown
on the Federal interchange plan either. The Ess family owned this property and wanted to
develop it, but sewer was not available at the time. They requested a lift station, but it
was denied by the City. They were told they would have to wait for gravity sewer. The
Council was split on the issue of the interchange. The Ess's wanted the City to buy their
property. The Council was not comfortable buying land if it was only going to be used
for an interchange. They wanted to know if there was some other way to use the property,
so the City hired George Watson to come up with a plan for this area. A feasibility study
was done to show what else could go here besides the interchange. The Lundgren
development skirts the outer edge of the ball fields. The Council voted to acquire the
property. There may not be an answer on the interchange question for another 20 years.
The next thing PRAC will see for this property is a development plan for the outdoor
education center, perhaps within the next 10 years. This will be a place of learning for
boy scouts, girl scouts, school groups, etc. There are no imminent plans to build the ball
fields at this time. We would prefer to build the 10th playfield first.
Fiemann asked for an explanation of park entrances again, which Director Blank
reviewed.
Don Pfaffe asked again about the trail locations. The path that presently comes through is
very low. He can't conceive of anyone taking another route. Director Blank said we are
requesting an easement from the homeowner's association. We could add some type of
fencing to keep people from wandering off the intended trail onto private property.
Director Blank said that when the 20 acres to the north develops, we will get trail
easement from that development. More trail will be put on the east side of Fernbrook
Lane.
Shirley Galvin agreed that the trail is lower for Don's building. However, it is even with
the other townhouse building, where she lives, so people using the trail will have sight
access to her personal townhouse unit.
Mark pointed out the existing path as it goes between two townhouse units. It would
follow the edge of the woods to the playground. Shirley Galvin asked for the approximate
location of the playground. Mark Peterson drew the proposed location on the map. It
would be 30 to 40 feet from the back of the building. Normally people travel three to four
blocks to a neighborhood park.
Anderson asked for feedback from commissioners. Fiemann is the parent of a 9 and 6
year old. His kids do not go to parks unsupervised. They live 1/4 mile from their park. At
most, they visit the park for about 1/2 hour. He likes the idea of not tearing down trees to
build a park. If the park gets moved in either direction, it will be that much farther from
one end or the other. He is concerned about how close the path will come to the property
with the porch. Landscaping will help with that.
PRAC Minutes/March 2001
Page 16
Musliner asked if anyone commented from the north or south. Mark Peterson said no.
Fiemann is not concerned about any adverse effect on wildlife. He feels this is the best
location. Musliner stated that she drove through the site and met with one of the
neighbors. She lives near two parks. She has witnessed people going to parks and they
respect people's property. She doesn't feel comfortable making a decision right now,
however.
From PRAC this issue goes to the City Council. Director Blank said we will continue to
go forward if the Council gives approval. We can also look at alternatives. Several
residents are still under the impression that this project is going forward. If we decide to
postpone it, we need to notify the many residents who expect this project to begin in
June.
Singer asked about postponing it one or two months. Director Blank said we could still
build it in the fall. This would give commissioners more time to go look at the site and
make a more informed decision. Anderson agrees with postponing. He also agrees that
the deer will not be disturbed and concurs that the park should not be in an isolated area.
SINGER MOVED TO POSTPONE THIS ISSUE FOR A FINAL DECISION TO BE
MADE AT THE MAY 10 MEETING, ALLOWING COMMISSIONERS TO LOOK
INTO ALTERNATE OPTIONS. ANDERSON SECONDED. MOTION CARRIED
WITH ALL AYES.
b. Review City Council goals. Director Blank explained that the top seven are new goals
for the Council. Del Erickson will do a feasibility study on a third sheet of ice, which
should be completed by September. Singer asked for clarification on Goal 41. Director
Blank explained that the water resource fee is based on lot size. It is a new fee that will
start mid year. It will produce a significant amount of money. The Environmental Water
Quality Committee is working on this. It may take millions of dollars to improve the
water of Medicine Lake and Parkers Lake. Every lot in the City will be charged
something toward this endeavor. Some members of the Council want a transit hub. One
possible location was the southwest corner of 55 and 494, but that didn't fly, so new
possibilities are being studied. Anderson asked about the peninsula on Medicine Lake.
Director Blank said there is nothing going on with that. The traffic safety program
involves writing more speeding tickets. One of the major complaints the City receives
from residents is excessive speeding on city streets.
c. Rotary Club Fundraising Program. Director Blank stated that 10,000 plastic ducks will be
placed in the pond in the amphitheater and they will be propelled across the water. This is
a fiind raising event for the Rotary Club. Director Blank wanted to know if the
Commission was comfortable with the Rotary Club using the pond for this purpose.
People will "adopt" a duck for $10 each. If all goes well, the Rotary Club gets $5 per
duck. They give the money back to the community. Three ducks will have a number on
the bottom. If one of those ducks gets into the winner's cage, it will be worth $1,000,000
to the person holding that number. There will be other prizes, as well. Singer said she was
comfortable using the pond for this purpose. The other commissioners concurred. This
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event will follow Plymouth on Parade. Director Blank expects that it may bring 10,000
additional people to the Parade event.
7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION
None.
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
Director Blank said the April meeting will probably be at the Plymouth Creek Center. Barry
Warner will be there to make a presentation on the comprehensive plan. Mary will run the
meeting, because Director Blank will be out of town. Meyer wanted to know if another letter
would be sent to the people interested in the Environmental Park. Director Blank said yes.
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:15 p.m.