HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 09-09-1993Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
September 9, 1993
Page 36
Present: Chair Anderson, Commissioners Burk, Gutzke, Johnson,
Mikula, Wahl, Watson; staff Bisek, Blank and Pederson,
City Manager Johnson, Councilmembers Edson and Tierney
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Anderson called the September meeting to order at 7
p.m. in the Council Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Gutzke and seconded by
Commissioner Mikula to approve the minutes of the July
meeting as presented. The motion carried with all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present at the meeting.
b. Staff. Mary stated that the Plymouth Rockers, our senior
singing group, performed at the Minnesota State Fair this
year. They currently have 50 members.
Summer programs ended in early August, with no serious
injuries incurred by anyone and no drownings at pools or
beaches. Our first Safety Camp was a big success with 50
kids participating. This was also our first year to
offer an evening T -ball program, which was the result of
parent requests.
The Autumn Arts Fair is set for Sunday, September 26.
Approximately 50 artists will be featured, along with
food vendors and entertainment being provided on the
hour. A special children's activity area will also be
set up. Target Greatland has offered the services of 30
volunteers to help with this event.
The employee of the month for September is Heather
Buchanan, who was our summer Day Camp coordinator.
4. REPORT ON PAST COUNCIL ACTION
None.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Accessible playground update. Concept plans have been
submitted by a number of designers. Staff has been
reviewing the plans and will get together again with the
Accessible Playground Task Force to choose from the
plans. It's possible that features from different
designs could be incorporated into one final plan, from
which a cost estimate could then be prepared. A formal
bidding procedure would follow if Council approved a
design plan.
PRAC Minutes/September 1993
Page 37
b. Community survey - continue discussion and review. A
brief discussion was held regarding the results of the
community survey. Director Blank stated that the
Minnesota Center for Survey Research will be doing a
final summary of the survey results, which will be
available at next month's meeting. Commissioners
reviewed the chart showing which facilities ranked high
and low based on the question "within the next five
years, do you feel the City should build and operate the
following new facilities?" Responses were "yes, even if
it raises my taxes;" "yes, only if it doesn't raise my
taxes;" "no, this facility should not be built;" or
don't know." Trails was the number one choice for
facilities that should be built. Based on that result,
Commissioner Burk wanted to know about the progress of
the trails that were included in the 1993 CIP. Director
Blank stated that a contract may be awarded sometime the
week of September 13 for the construction of those trails
recommended for 1993, with the exception of the trail
between Vicksburg and Niagara Lane and the one around
Turtle Lake. Some complications arose, which have since
been resolved, but construction will be delayed on these
two segments until 1994. Commissioner Burk also inquired
about the park land north of County Road 9 and west of
494. Director Blank stated that a clean up effort had
taken place there in late spring and that woodchip trails
were in the process of being built now.
Commissioner Gutzke asked for an explanation of how the
various park accounts are funded. Director Blank stated
that for every dollar received in park dedication, 70¢
goes to the community playfields/trails account and 30¢
goes to the neighborhood parks account. Each account
carries a balance from year to year. Director Blank also
explained the park replacement fund, MSA funds, and TIF
and CIF funds.
C. 1994-98 CIP/request to purchase 26 acres adjacent to
French Park. Members of the Save French Wetlands
Association were present to request that PRAC consider
budgeting funds in the Parks 194 CIP to purchase 26 acres
of property which has been proposed for development by
the Baton Corporation. The property is owned by Mission
Partnership, and a PUD was approved for the site in 1976,
which covered approximately 257 acres. The only portion
of that PUD that has not been developed is this remaining
26 acres.
Bob Donley, 11740 38th Avenue, stated that the Save
French Wetlands Association is interested in the
possibility of joint ownership of the property. They are
proposing that the City, Hennepin Parks, and the Wetlands
Association jointly purchase the property and then turn
it over to Hennepin Parks, who has indicated
PRAC Minutes/September 1993
Page 38
that they would then make it part of French Regional
Park. The French Wetlands Association has been in touch
with a national non-profit organization, the Trust for
Public Land, which would assist in appraising the
property and negotiating a purchase price. Mr. Donley
went on to explain some of the highlights of this
property, with the use of overheads and photographs. As
described by Mr. Donley, the 26 acres consists of nine
acres of wetlands, 12 acres of hardwood forest and five
acres of sloped, grassy areas. Mr. Donley stated that
the recent survey done for the Park and Recreation
department indicated that 240 of the respondents were
willing to pay for a nature preserve, while 20% did not
feel the City should purchase such a facility.
Chair Anderson asked Director Blank the status of the
proposed development at this time and was informed that
the Environmental Assessment Worksheet had been presented
to the City Council at their last meeting and following
their review of that report, the Council sent the project
back to the Planning Commission for further analysis.
Commissioner Watson asked what the current purchase price
of the property is, and was told the owner is asking
800,000. The French Wetlands Association feels this
price is way out of line and that half that amount is
more likely the fair price.
Commissioner Burk asked Mr. Donley how much money the
Save French Wetlands Assoc. had raised to help with the
purchase of the 26 acres and if the joint purchase would
be equally shared by all parties. Mr. Donley did not
wish to reveal the amount raised by their association,
nor did he wish to comment on how the purchase price
should be divided. Commissioner Burk added that as far
as he knew, Hennepin Parks was not interested in
purchasing the property. He wondered if they had changed
their minds. Mr. Donley stated that Hennepin Parks was
willing to consider a joint purchase if the City also
went in on the deal. He also indicated that the Wetlands
Association was not interested in a dollar amount at this
time, but only in the City's interest and support.
Commissioner Johnson asked how the Save French Wetlands
Assoc. had formed. Mr. Donley stated that when the
proposal to develop the property surfaced, over 2,000
individuals signed a petition asking that the project be
denied. They are a very committed group, with as many as
70-90 members in attendance at the Council meetings, and
many of those members have written numerous letters to
the local newspaper in opposition to the development.
Rita O'Donnell, 12105 41st Avenue, gave a slide
presentation to the Commission, showing some of the
PRAC Minutes/September 1993
Page 39
unique aspects of the property. She stated that the Save
French Wetlands Assoc. has the support of a number of
other groups who have lost wetlands issues in the past.
Ms. O'Donnell stated that the property is not worth
800,000 in her opinion, but that it is a unique piece of
property, and she asked that the Park Commission be open
minded about their request. Ms. O'Donnell indicated that
this parcel contains 10 acres of wetlands considered to
be the best breeding habitat for waterfowl in the
country, that there are four different kinds of ponds
that attract 160 species of birds, and that there is a
flourishing group of muskrats living here, as well as
numerous other species of wildlife. The parcel is next
to a public park and serves as a buffer zone. Ms.
O'Donnell is a volunteer at French Park, and according to
her figures, over 3,000 people visit this park each
summer day, and up to 100% of the park may be developed
for recreation, driving out much of the wildlife living
there now.
George Daniels, 1865 Black Oaks Lane, stated that he was
at the meeting to remind the Park Commission that they
serve all of Plymouth's residents. He reminded those
present that this parcel is not a park, it's a PUD, and
has been since 1976. At that time, getting the PUD
approved was a long drawn out process, dealing with
different agencies, such as the Watershed District, the
County, etc. He also reminded the members of the
Wetlands Association that the homes they live in now
occupy land that was once undeveloped and provided the
habitat for birds, deer, muskrats, etc. Mr. Daniels
further stated that he believed the Save French Wetlands
Association was a self-serving group. He said that
developers do not chop down needless trees, because trees
are what make land valuable. He also stated that
developers must abide by shoreland ordinances. He
questioned the assumption by the Wetlands Association
that the owner would be willing to sell the property
after paying taxes on it for so many years in addition to
other expenses he's incurred up to this point. He said
he found it interesting that the Park and Recreation
survey revealed that 24% of the respondents were willing
to pay for a nature preserve. He interpreted that to
mean that 75% of the respondents were not willing to pay.
He also questioned why Hennepin Parks did not make this
26 acres part of their master plan when they had the
opportunity to do so several years ago.
Following Mr. Daniels' presentation, Ms. O'Donnell
questioned him as to his interest in this subject, who he
represented and was he running for public office. He
responded that he was a developer, that he represented no
one, and he was not running for office.
PRAC Minutes/September 1993
Page 40
Ginny Black, 11410 49th Place, stated that she did not
live near this piece of property, but is a member of the
Audobon Society, and as such, is interested in the
preservation of wetlands. She stated she didn't think
the developer would lose anything if he sold the
property, because a fair price would be negotiated, with
all parties concerned being represented at the
negotiations. Ms. Black informed the Park Commission
that the city's Wetlands Task Force had comeup with a
set of guidelines to help the Park Commission when they
consider the acquisition and development of property.
She urged PRAC to request a copy of these guidelines.
Ms. Black also stated that she would much rather go for a
walk with her dog through a wooded nature preserve than
along an asphalt trail around a ballfield or next to a
busy roadway.
Commissioner Johnson asked Ms. Black if, in her opinion,
the City could afford to purchase only one piece of
property, was this the absolute best parcel to buy? She
said she wasn't sure, but thought it was at least one of
the best and deserved serious consideration.
Commissioner Burk pointed out to Ms. Black that not all
of the trails being built by the City end up going around
ballfields or beside busy streets. New trails are
constructed yearly and many go around lakes or ponds or
through wooded areas, such as the woodchip trails through
the wooded parcel west of 494 and north of County Road 9.
Joe Domagala, 17705 County Road 24, agrees that saving
wetlands is important, but he also believes that a
developer has the right to develop his property. He
would like to see the 26 acre parcel acquired, but
wonders who is the appropriate party to buy it. He
stated that if the 2,000 people signing the petition each
contributed $300, they could buy the land themselves.
Mr. Domagala doesn't believe that Hennepin Parks will
contribute any funds, therefore, leaving the purchase up
to the City and Save French Wetlands Association.
Paul Fusco, Brooklyn Center, stated he is concerned about
what will happen in our future if all the wetlands
disappear. He feels it would impact a lot of people, and
wonders if development will ever go in reverse.
Ms. O'Donnell spoke again on behalf of the Save French
Wetlands Association, and denied Mr. Daniels' claim that
they are a self serving group. She stated that their
members come from all over the City. In reference to the
statement that there are shoreland ordinances that
protect wetlands, it is Ms. O'Donnell's opinion that even
with such ordinances, any kind of development negatively
impacts wetlands and flood plains.
PRAC Minutes/September 1993
Page 41
Commissioners asked staff when this issue will next go
before the Planning Commission. City Manager Johnson
responded that the soonest it could be on the agenda is
September 22.
Chair Anderson thanked the members of the Save French
Wetlands Association and other interested parties for
their presentations. He stated that PRAC needed to
review other wetlands in Plymouth, as directed by the
City Council, before making a decision on this parcel.
He suggested that PRAC members might be able to walk the
site as a group, so a tour was arranged for September 13,
with Rita O'Donnell and Bob Donley offering to be the
guides.
Director Blank informed everyone at the meeting that the
City currently owns 900 acres of park land, and of that
total, only 300 acres are developed. The remaining 600
acres are in a natural state. A few of those natural
park areas have trails.
d. West Medicine Lake Park master plan update. Preliminary
research is being done on the road alignments. Two
public information meetings have been scheduled, one for
October 6, at 7 p.m. and one November 9, at 7 p.m. Area
residents will be invited to attend and voice their
concerns and opinions about the proposed park.
e. Lions Park/Birchview School update. A realignment of
ballfields has occurred, which will alleviate some of the
activity at Lions Park. Games at Lions should be reduced
to just one per evening and none on Saturdays.
f. Equipment storage space update. Athletic associations
were notified by staff that limited space was available
for storage at Fire Station II, but there has been no
response. Staff has also inquired about space
availability through the Wayzata School District, but
there has been no reply from them.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. Study of unique open spaces - referred from City Council.
Because of the controversy over the Baton Corporation's
proposal to develop the area near French Park, the City
Council has asked PRAC to conduct a study of all the open
spaces in Plymouth to determine if any of them should be
acquired. Eden Prairie recently conducted a similar type
study of their wetlands. They hired Barton-Aschman at a
cost of about $10,000 to conduct their study. It was
suggested that a task force be formed to get started on
this process. Those who will meet initially from the
Park Commission are Mark Wahl, Mary Kay Watson, Tom
Johnson; from staff, Eric Blank and Paul Buck, City
PRAC Minutes/September 1993
Page 42
Forester; and from the Council, John Edson. It was also
recommended that some citizens join the task force as
well. Rita O'Donnell suggested that properties inside
the MUSA line be considered before those outside the
boundary, and to give priority to parcels that might be
developed first. Bob Donley requested that staff contact
other communities to see if they have done similar
surveys.
COMMISSION PRESENTATION
None.
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
Staff reminded PRAC that due to holidays falling on regular
meeting dates in November and December, those meetings will
be moved up. November's meeting will be on the 4th and
December's will be on the 2nd.
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 10:15 p.m.