HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 11-08-1990Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
November 8, 1990
Page 48
Present: Chair Freels, Commissioners Anderson, Hanson, Beach and Waage; staff
Blank, Pederson, and Peterson
Absent: Commissioner Rosen
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Freels called the November meeting to order at 7 p.m. in the Council
Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Anderson and seconded by Commissioner
Waage to approve the minutes of the October meeting as presented. The
motion carried with all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present.
b. Staff. Mark Peterson, Superintendent of Parks, presented the
Commission with a map showing winter trails that will be maintained.
He explained that 29-30 miles of trails will be plowed this winter,
which is three miles more than last winter, and 10 miles more than the
winter of '88-89. He stated that the City purchased a special
sidewalk plow that is narrower than the blade on a pickup truck, which
makes plowing the trails a more efficient operation. He explained
that additional winter maintenance for the parks crew involves plowing
City owned parking lots, building maintenance at Parkers Lake
Pavilion, and the flooding and maintenance of City ice rinks. Two new
rinks will be operational this winter, one at Swan Lake Park and one
at Turtle Lake Park. Rinks at Olive Pond and Lions Park will be
removed from the maintenance schedule, because they are both close to
other rinks where warming houses are located. Rink flooding will
begin around the end of November, with rinks ready for skaters by mid-
December. Rinks on ponds and lakes usually take longer, because crews
will not take equipment on the ice until it is at least eight indhes
thick for safety purposes. Matk stated that a winter maintenance
manual has been assembled for maintenance employees, which explains in
detail what's to be done in each park. Mark also explained the
projects that were completed this past summer by the Twin Cities Tree
Trust, a group comprised of low income teens and adults. Some of the
the projects done by them for the City of Plymouth included a keystone
retaining wall in Plymouth Creek Park and in the Parkers Lake
Cemetery, and replacing the old wooden timbers surrounding the play
equipment at the East Beach and Mission Hills Park with new recycled
plastic timbers.
C. Others. None.
November 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 49
4. REPORT ON PAST COUNCIL ACTION
a. Council approved the list of ice rinks to be maintained during the 90-
91 winter season.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Proposed trail on County Road 6 from Fernbrook to Juneau Lane. This
item was tabled at the October meeting in order to give each
commissioner a chance to visit the site. All commissioners present
agreed that the trail was necessary after observing the speed of
traffic on County Road 6 and witnessing pedestrians and bikers using
the road.
Henry Willegalle, 1525 Juneau Lane, stated that he did not agree with
staff on the location of this segment of trail. He thinks the people
north of County 6 will come down Niagara Lane to get to the park, and
those who choose to use Fernbrook should be routed down to the Luce
Line and then over to the park. He also explained that it is
difficult for him to envision the trail system completely in place by
just looking at it on a map, and it's hard to understand how all the
different segments will fit together in the end, when it's being
constructed in pieces. Director Blank tried to explain to Mr.
Willegalle that the trail along County 6, when it is all completed,
will start at Oakwood Elementary (on the north side of 6) and go east
to the Parkers Lake Park tunnel at Co. 6 & Niagara, where it will then
cross to the south side of 6, continue along the park boundary to
Juneau and then go on to Fernbrook. Mr. Willegalle stated that it did
not personally matter to him where the trail is placed, but he does
feel that the residents on 6 have given up a lot of their property for
the widening of the road, and regardless of where the trail goes,
someone will be unhappy.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER HANSON AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
WAACE TO RECOMMEND THE CONSTRUCTION OF TRAIL ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF
COUNTY ROAD 6 BETWEEN FERNBROOK AND JUNEAU LANE AS PROPOSED IN THE
COMPREHENSIVE TRAIL SYSTEM PLAN. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ALL AYES.
b. Proposal to build ice rink. Robert Furst and Andy Benson, 462
Williams St., Excelsior, presented their proposal to the Commission to
build an indoor ice arena on the site proposed for the community
center arena. This item was tabled at the October meeting, because
these two gentlemen couldn't be present that evening. Director Blank
stated that this item has been forwarded to the Financial Task Force
for their review. Mr. Benson indicated that the proposed arena would
be Olympic size (there are no Olympic size arenas in the metropolitan
area at this time), and that he and Mr. Furst would come up with the
funds to build it, with the understanding that the City would buy the
building once it is constructed and be responsible for the costs of
maintenance. They would operate and manage it the first two years at
no cost to the City. If the operating costs exceeded the revenues,
Mr. Benson and Furst would cover those losses. If, on the other hand,
revenues exceeded expenses, they would get those profits.
November 1990 FRAC Minutes
Page 50
Chair Freels commented that as a business man, he believes the
construction of an ice arena of this magnitude would be a great risk
to these private individuals and he questioned why they were willing
to take such a risk? Mr. Furst responded that they are confident it
would be a successful venture for both the City and themselves and
that after conducting research with different skating clubs, they are
positive enough use would be generated to make a profit or at least
break even. He went on to say that at this point, they aren't
interested in making a profit, they just want to build an ice arena.
Mr. Furst also commented that if PRAC had been willing to include an
ice arena in their community center plans, these same risks had to be
considered and how was this proposal any different than that?
Commissioner Beach asked which skating clubs they had talked to, and
Mr. Benson said that he had spoken with the Edina Figure Skating Club,
and the Minnetonka Figure Skating Club. He also said that the Olympic
Skating Committee had contacted him about their proposal to build an
arena in Plymouth. Commissioner Beach said she believed the
Minneapolis Figure Skating Club was looking for a "home" arena, and
Mr. Benson might want to contact them, as well.
Several commissioners questioned how the arena would be managed in
terms of who would assign the ice time and how those decisions would
be made, such as what hours hockey clubs would get for practice and
when the general public would be allowed to skate and how much groups
would be charged. Director Blank responded that the management of the
ice arena and fees haven't been discussed at this point, because this
is only a proposal. Mr. Furst said that an example scenario would be
to assign ice time to hockey groups based on the percentage of
Plymouth children involved. He also indicated that about ten hours a
week would be set aside for "open" skating. He further stated that he
had talked with the Wayzata Hockey Association, and they would be
willing to contribute some of the funds needed to build the arena, if
they could be guaranteed 1/6 of the ice time.
Chair Freels asked each commissioner for his/her comments on the
proposal to build an indoor ice arena on the site set aside for the
community center's arena.
Commissioner Hanson commented that she believes there is a need for
indoor ice, but she isn't sure about the project being built by
private individuals who would later turn it over to the City to run.
She feels the City should have more control at the beginning of the
project and remain involved throughout, and she's also concerned about
the future of the community center if an ice arena is constructed
alone.
Commissioner Anderson feels the whole proposal is too vague, and he is
also concerned about the City's commitment to buy the building once it
is constructed. What happens if it fails? What would the City do
with the building?
Commissioner Waage questioned how Plymouth residents would view the
project? Would they see it as a private ice arena and have trouble
November 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 51
connecting it to the City, and as a result of that, not use it? She
also feels it's somewhat a moot issue, since the Council is the body
who will decide if it will be built, not the Park Commission.
Commissioner Beach was concerned with how ice time would be assigned
what fees would be charged to groups and single individuals, and would
the construction of this building compromise the community center?
Chair Freels stated that he could not endorse this proposal or
recommend it to the City Council, because he feels it is such an
enormous risk on the part of Mr. Benson and Mr. Furst, and he doesn't
believe the City should get involved with a private venture like this.
Director Blank reminded the commissioners that their first task at
this point in the process is to decide if there is a real need in
Plymouth for indoor ice. It is up to the Financial Task Force and the
Council to decide how it will be funded.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER BEACH AND SECONDED BY CHAIR FREELS
TO INFORM THE CITY COUNCIL THAT PRAC BELIEVES THERE IS A NEED FOR
INDOOR ICE IN PLYMOUTH, THAT AN INDOOR ARENA SHOULD BE INTEGRATED INTO
THE COMMUNITY CENTER CONCEPT, AND THAT PRAC DESIRES MORE DIRECTION
FROM THE CITY COUNCIL ON WHAT TO DO WITH THIS PROPOSAL. THE MOTION
CARRIED WITH ALL AYES.
c. Special. facilities - comprehensive plan -, continue discussion.
Director Blank distributed some information on national golf and pool
standards. Discussion on this item will continue at the next meeting.
d. 1990 project report. Swan Lake Neighborhood park is finished except
for dormant seeding in some areas, trails on 46th Avenue and West
Medicine Lake Drive are also complete.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. New plats. There were no new plats.
7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION
Chair Freels stated that he will be out of town on December 13 and could
the PRAC meeting be changed to another night, or cancelled for December.
It was decided to meet on a "need to meet" basis.
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
Director Blank indicated that the 1990 Annual Report draft copy would be
available for PRAC's review at their January meeting, with the final copy
needing approval at the February meeting.
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 8:45 p.m.