HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 07-12-1990Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
July 12, .1990'
Page 28
Present: Chairman Freels, Commissioners Anderson, Edwards, Beach, Rosen,
Hanson, and 'Waage; staff Blank, Patterson-Bisek, Anderson, Sankey,
Councilman Ricker
Absent: none
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Freels called the July meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Counil
Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Chair Freels felt, that a sentenceshouldbe added to the June minutes on
Page 24, after Paragraph 1._, stating that the Chair closed the Public
hearing. Chair Freels moved to approve the minutes with this change. It
was seconded by Commissioner Rosen. The motion carried will: all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present.
b. staff. Cindy Anderson presented this month's "Employee of the Month"
certificate to Linda McKinley, Senior Head Lifeguard. Linda has
worked for the Parks & Recreation Department since 1986 as a life
guard and swimming instructor. She ha.s over 240 hours of training for
her certifications and at least 180 hours of incervice 'training. She
supervises, trains, and schedules the life guards, coordinates the
Wayzata Beach program, and performs various related administrative
duties. Her exceptional knowledge, friendly attitude, and sincere
concern for safety help mold the life guard staff into a real team.
Cindy stated that beach attendance is up. The new life- jacket and
wading areas at the beaches have been added, and use of them is high.
The use of life jackets in these marked areas has not been as high as
expected, but use by small children for wading has been very popular.
This year's lifeguard staff is excellent. Many of the guards are 3rd
or 4th year employees, so experience is high. Attendance at Parkers
Lake has been very high, contributing to more concession sales.
Swimming lessons are being held at Wayzata West Jr. High this year.
The classes have been filling up quickly because of the lack of
Wayzata East Jr. High. The Red Cross instituted a new Whales Tales
safety program which we use with good success. The Whales Tales are
also used at the Day Camp, which is going very well. The group size
is kept fairly Small, which contributes to a family feeling. PITS
attendance is up; the new sites seem to be working well. The Friday
special events are very well attended.
Mary Patterson-Bisek stated that all the staff deserves a pat on the
back due to the handling of all the rained -out activities. For.
July 1990 FRAC Minutes
Page 29
example, there are 64 softball games to be made up. The department
employs approximately 100 seasonal staff., which keeps the full time
staff 'very busy, handling Phones, payroll, etc.. The Schneider USA-
sponsored Rockin' Hollywoods concert was moved to Wayzata East Jr.
High because of rain,, but it was still able to attract 450 people.
The Torch Run went very well and generated a great deal of interest.:
Phyllis Hanson and her daughter participated. Demand for pre-school
l;ograms has been extremely high, including the new pre-school
swimming clasees and special events. We are working on expanding the
programs. The Water Carnival will be held on July 24 from 5:30 to
9:00. The 'Teddy Bear Band and, Sons, of the Beach will be appearing.
Last year's Carnival attracted about 700 people. The fall brochure
articles have been turned in, and we are starting to get ready for the
next season.
Chair Freels asked if the fire works had been rescheduled. Director
Blank responded that '.he Civic League will meet on Tuesday to discuss
expenses, and then they will have a better idea if they will do
something else or wait, until next year.
c,. Others. None.
4 REPOM ON PAST COUNCIL ACTION
a. Director Blank announced that the City Council approved -the plans for
Bass Lake and Parkers Lake Playfields as PRAC had presented them.
5
b_. The City Council awarded the contract to Ideal Paving for Swan Lake
Neighborhood Park. Chair Freels asked if a ceremony is held when a
park is opened. Director Blank .stated that ground breaking ceremonies
and grand opening ceremonies are sometimes held for the major parks
and playfields, but not usuall for the neighborhood parks.
UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. 1991-95 CIP. DirectorBlank presented the CTP containing his
estimates of costs of various projects. He stated that the trails
listed for each year is a+'general designation; actual, trail projects
to be completed each year can he chosen from the list of trails
attached or from new trail needs that may become apparent. He also
stated that the CIP figures were still just an estimate, since the -
available money would depend on flow the Council decides to fund the
1990 projects.
Commissioner Beach expressed her wish to see an outdoor pool located
at Zachary Park added' to the CIP in 1992. She feels there is a great
need and desire among, the citizens for an outdoor pool.
Chair Freels felt that staff should be asked to do a study to
determine the location and bring the results back to FRAC.
Commissioner Waage agrees that the City should build an outdoor pool
because several people in her district have expressed an interest in
one. The CIP should include what the constituents want most.
July 1990 PRAC Minutes
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Compissioner Rosen stayed that he feels an outdoor pool will be needed
in the, future, but he is not comfortable with the timing of putting it
in the 1992 C., -,;P. He would really like to go ahead with the Community
Center in 1991 and would not like to jeopardize its chances by listing
an outdoor, pool in 1992. He would also like to give higher priority
to new tennics courts and playfields. He felt comfortable with the
1991 CIP, and Would like to leave, out the pool for now.,
Commissioner Hanson said there are two approaches to a CIP: You can
be conse r-ative and only ask for the bare minimum, but chances are
that is only what you will get. You can make it a wish list and list
everything that: you feel the community can use and go for it. She
doesnit feel that the timing on the projects is very critical because
CTP's change from year to year:
Cor:ntissioner Edwards stated that she is also an advocate of the
Community Center: An outdoor ,00l would be mice in June, July,. and
August, but would be closed the, rest of the year,
Commissioner Anderson felt the Community Center should have priority:
He tfondiredi how effective outdoor pools are cost wise.
Chair Freels said that, costs could be very high with; maintenance,
staff,, and security. He asked Director Blank to comment on pools..
Director Blank stated that wr have three junior highs with pools, two
YMCA's„ New Hope and Crystal pools €,vailable for swimming
opportunities, along with four beaches within the city. He does feel
outdoor pools will be needed in the future, because the lakes are,
bound to deteriorate. He said the Council has directed PRAC to look
at arecial use facilities. Until the commissioners have done the,
study and have a better idea of what is needed, he hesitates putting
anything specific in the CIP.
Commiosioner Hanson asked if they could lint a "special use" item
without specifying what it would be.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER BEACH AND SECOZ4DED BY COMMISSIONER
HANSON TO INCLUDE AN OUTDOOR POOL LOCATED AT ZACHARY PARK IN THE 1992
CIP. MOTION WAS AMENDED BY COMMISSIONER Dii-'ACH TO READ "LOCATION. AND
TYPE OF POOL TO BE DETERMINED LATER". MOTION WAS DEFEATED WITH
COMMISSIONERS WAAGE AND BEACH' VOTT,.NG AYE AND COMMISSIONERS ROSEN,
HANSON, EDWARDS, ANDERSON, AND CHAIR FREELS VOTING NAY.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ROSEN 'i INCLUDE THE OUTDOOR POOL IN
THE :995 CIP. MOTION DIED FOR. LACK OF SECOND.
Jim Kukral, 4070 Minnesota Lane, represented Plymouth Creek Elementary
in requesting that the City donate .$5-10 thousand towards a playground
structure for the school., The school currently has only a very
minimal playground for the children. They have plans to build a.
35,000. project' on the east side of the building and need the
additional funds from the City for rock, timber, and landscaping.. The
July 1490 PRAC'Minutes
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school would be willing to submit a request in any form; which is
required
Chair Freels asked Director Blank what the policy was for this type of
request
Director Blank replied that they must make the request this year for
n.ext year's budget, and the project must be identified as a park site
in the park pla i. PRAC would have to address the fact that Pltmouth
Creek.Elementary is not currently in the system plan as -a park site.
Ccmmissioner Edwards wondered if contributing to the school's
playground could be justified since a playfield and neighborhood park
are planned for the site just west of the school,
Commissioner Rosen pointed out that the City's, investment of $5-10
thousand would actually yield a $35 thousand. value in a neighborhood
park, since the school was investing the rest of the money., He also
askedwhich Weyzata; Schools have been given money for playground`
equipment in the past.
rector Blank said that the City had. given money to Sunset Hill-,
Oakwood, and Greenwood Elementaries. The difference with these
schools is that they had been designated as neighborhood' park. schools
in the original: comprehensive plan which were: formulated considering-
population projections. Plymouth. Creek Elementary was sort of
i "dropped in", and it hadn't been a part of our planning.
Commissioner Anderson asked if we could get it into the plans_,; since a
precedent has been set with the other schools.
Chair Freels stated that all they could do right now is put it on the
Council agenda:
Mr. Kukral said that the school could borrow the money needed right
now to construct the playground before fall if they had some assurance
that the request would be presenCed. to the Council..
Commissioner Waage commented that this playground is basically just
for the school, not For the general public..
Commissioner Rosen asked if playfie,lds always have 'play equipment as
part of their plans.
Director. Blank ;said no, Ridgemoun.t and Plymouth Middle School don't
have playground equipment.
Commissioner Edwards pointed out, that all the others were designated'
as playfield-neighborhood parks. She also noted that the school plans
to put the play- equipment on the east side of the building, not the
west side where the propose' park would be..
Director Blank also wondered why the school district doesn't include
the :funds to build playgrounds in their building budgets..
July 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 32
Chair Freels pointed out that the City doesn't, own this park land yet,
and it probably wouldn't be developed for 5-10 years.
The Commission took no action on ttze school'i; request.
Commissioner Hanson feels that there is a major parking problem at
Timber Shores Park and that this project should be included in the
991, CIP. She wondered if there would be enoughfunds for it.
Director Blank stated that right now the cash on hand in the park.
dedication fund is about $900,000. It will depend on how the Council
decides to fund the proposed new playfields whether there will be
money left for any of the other requested projects.
Councilman Ricker said that PRAC shouldn't worry about. funding. They
should include whatever they feel is needed in the CIP and let the
Council worry about the funding.;
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER HANSON AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
WAAGE TO CHANGE THE TIMBER SHORES PARKING LOT PROJECT FROM 1992 TO
1991.. IN THE CIP. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH 7 AYES.
Commissioner Rosen asked what it would cost to purchase Hollydale or
Hampton. Hills Golf Courses. He ,eels the City will lose the golf
courses to homes if they don't step in and make the purchase.
Director Blankfelt it would cost about $2 million.
Commissioner Edwards feels it would be, a good idea to preserve a golf
course from development into homes, but PRAC should look at all the
needs.
Commissioner Hanson feels a special use study should he completed and
then the needs put into the CIP.
A 'MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ROSEN AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
HANSON TO ADD THE ACQUISITION OF AN EXISTING GOLF COURSE INTO THE 1993
CIP. MOTION WAS, DEFEATED WITH COMMISSIONER ROSEN VOTING AYE AND ALL
OTHERS VOTIVG NAY.
Director Blank stated that standards exist for number of ballfields,
etc., per population.. None exist foto golf courses and other special
interests. He needs some time to research this issue and hopes to
have some answer, of how PRAC should proceed with i study by the
September meeting.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ANDERSON AND SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER WAAGE TO APPROVE THE CIP WITH THE TIMBER SHORES CHANGE.
Commissioner Rosen wanted it known that the reason some of the special
need items aren't in the CIP yet is because PRAC wants to study the
issues first.
July 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 33;
Commissioner Waage wanted to know what trails are included in the CTP.
She is very interested in a trail along County Road 47, especially
since her daughter was hit by a car on that road recently.
Director Blank stated that the Comprehensive Trail Plan was approved
by PRAC two months ago. PRAC can pick the highest priority trails
from the list they were given, although the list was not meant to be
all-inclusive. The County Road 47 trail timing has not yet been set.
COMMISSIONER ROSEN PROPOSED AN AMENDME€ii TO THE MOTION FOR INCLUDING A
RANGE OF $8-12 MILLION FOR THE CO'NMUNTTY CENTER.
Commissioner Anderson felt that instead of a range, it should just be
12 million.
Commissioner Beach pointed out with the addition. of time and cost
overruns, a more realistic figure may be $15 million.
i
Councilman Ricker pointed out that the dollar amount was not --ritical
at this time.
Commissioner Rosen changed the amendment to $15 million,
Commissioner Anderson agreed to the amendment to his motion.
THE MOTIONTO APPROVE THE CIF WITH THE TIMBER SHORES CHANGE AND A $'15
MILLION AMOUNT FOR THE COMMUNITY CENTER WAS APPROVED WITH ALL AYES..
b. fest Medicine Trail Update. Director 'Blank announced that, the bids
were opened today for this project, with Barber Construction the
apparent low bidder at $235,285.10. The Council will be asked, to
award the contract on Monday, and he hopes the project will be
underW ty in ten days
c.. 46th Avenue Trail URdate. The Council will be asked to authorize the
bidding process on this project on Monday.
6. NEW BUSINESS'
a. Non-re§ident Fees. Carol Beach stated that she feels all non -Plymouth
residents who join youth athletic programs which use Plymouth fields
should pay a $5 non-resident fee which' would be collected by the
aasociations and turned over to the Park & Recreat.on Department. She.
would like this to take effect as of January 1, 1991•.
Chair Freels wondered if PRAC' has the authority to recommend this to
the Council;
Director Blank replied that yes, it does.
Commissioner Rosen felt that PRAC should do more research on this
subject. He also asked if this subject should be covered at a special
ieeting when field usage fees are covered.
July 1990 PRAC Minutes
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Commissioner Anderson felt that the subject should be postponed:..
Director Blank said: that the field usage issues: are addressed in
December. He also .Felt that the associations should be invited to the
meeting when this would be- discussed so that they may come and
comment. If PRAC were to act on, it now, the reaction from the
associations would be negative.
Chair Freels asked if PRAC could be given all the information staff
has on this subject.
Director Blank stuted that in the New Hope/Plymouth Soccer program,
for example, participation is about 60% Plymouth and 40% New Hope.
The Association. charges Plymouth children an extra official fee
because the City of New Hope pays for the officials, and Plymouth does
not. Plymouth Park & Recreation does charge non-resident fees in.
various programs run by the Department
Commissioner Rosen stated that there are different issues on different
sides of the city. He dors not like the idea of Plymouth children
being cut from the traveling teams by non -Plymouth kids when the teams
are using Plymouth fields. He also wondered what a non-resident fee
is for - too exclude others?
Commissioner Waage suggested that, maybe certain groups could be.
exempted from the non-resident fee,
Commissioner Beach stated that other cities charge non-resident fees
to Plymouth residents, and people don't understand why non-residents
don't have to pay extra fees to play in Plymouth.
Chair Freels expressed concern about public relations. He felt the
issue, should be tabled and discussed in September.
Director Blank, said he would send letters to the associations before
the meeting,
b. Chair Freels asked the opinions of the commissioners on how he has
conducted the meetings and whether he was following Roberts Rules of
Order properly. He also pointed out that commissioners should always
be careful to avoid conflicts of interest, He also stated that he
felt uncomfortable with the way PRAC had redesigned Bass Lake
Playfield plans at their last meeting
Commissioner Rosen felt the meetings were being run well. The
discussions had been more lively lately because of differing points of
view, so meetings will naturally take longer. He feels it is
appropriate to change park plans and that PRAC doesn.'t necessarily
have. to accept what staff presents,
Commissioner Waage stated that PRAC is here to make decisions for the
entire community and should, not be heavily swayed by just one or two
people. She also said that she wants to understand the issues fully
before, voting, and not be rushed,
July 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 35
Commissioner Beach .heels PRAG usually does make decisions for the
entire community, and it is good to move things along.
Commissioner Hanson felt frustrated at the, Bass Lake meeting because
it was not clear whenthe public was done speaking, and when PRAC could
begin their discussion,. It was difficult, too, because there were, no
athletic associations present, just neighbors.
Commissioner Rosen felt that at one of the Community Center meetings,
the Chair handled it well at the start by stating the procedure to be
followed at the meeting. it is important to cut the public off at
some point.
Chair Freels stated that he will bring a copy of Roberts Rules of
Order to the next meeting.
c. Councilman Ricker brought a request from the Mayor for a joint meeting
between,PRAC and City Council.'
Chair Freels said that he had requested the meeting to discuss the Clk
more fully.
Commissioner Anderson suggested meeting, before a Monday Council,
meeting.
Chair Freels suggested July 30 at 5;00 before the budget meeting,
7 COMMISSION PRESENTATION
Councilman Ricker expressed his appreciation for the work PRAC does on all
the Park & Recreation, issues. He stated that when the Council makes s
change in one of their suggestions, it is only because they see things
from a different light from their own studies. He also appreciates their
discussion of the length of public meetings. This is; an issue the Council
Will, needto address,, too. He said that the Council is selecting a
Financial Task. Force to study funding issues;. PRAC should go ahead and
include whatever the community needs in the CIP and not worry about dollar
figures of this point. These facilities are needed to bringkids together
in a good environment
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
None.
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9,33 p.m.