HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 06-14-1990Minutes of the .Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
Jdne 14, 1990
Page 20
Present:: Chairman Freels, Got*nissi.oners Andersonf Edwards, Beach, Rosen and
Hanson; staff Blank, Greupner,, Patterson and Pederson, Councilman
Ricker
Absent: Commissioner Waage;
1 CALL TO ORDER
Chair Freels called. the June meeting to order at 7:30 p.m, in the Council
Chambers.
2. APPROVAL: OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Beach and seconded by Commissioner
r Edwards to approve the minutes of the May meeting as presented. The
motion carried with all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a._ Athletic Associations.- None were present;.
b. Staff. Karol Greupner announced the concert in the parks schedule and
the special concert featuring the Rockin' Hollywoods set for Saturday,
June 16, at 7 p.m. This special event was made possible by the.
financial support of Schneider USA. The concert is to be held
outdoors at Plymouth City Center, but in case of rain will be moved to
the _gym at Wayzata East Jr. High. Additional programs Karol discussed
included the Water Carnival at Parkers: Lake on July 24, which will
feature the Teddy Bear Band and the Sons of the Beach band; the summer
school program in District 281, featuring a class called "Just for
Kids," which is sponsored by Plymouth Park and Recreation; a community
music lesson program sponsored with northwest suburban park and
recreation departments. Music lessons will be offered in two
locations in each community and are geared to pre-school and
elementary children.
Karol presented this month's "Employee of the Month" certificate to
Peggy Rick, who has a 'B.A. in Educational Psychology and teaches
Jazzercise and Know More Diet to adults, Jr. Jazzercise to teens, and
Small Change for mothers and their pre-school children from six months
to three years old. Peggy will also be teaching the "Just for Kids"
class which is part of the '81 Sumner School program.
Mary stated that draft budgets for 1991 are completed. Fall programs
for inclusion in the Plymouth News must be in by the end of July. A
summer intern; will begin work with the Plymouth Park and Recreation
Department June 18 and will be with us for ten web s.
c • Others. None.
4 REPORT ON PAST COUNCIL ACTION
None.
June 199.0 PRAC Minutes
Page 21
5. UNFINISHED BUSYNESS.
a. Parkers Lake Playfield Master Plan. Brauer and Associates consultant,,
George Watson, explained the master site plan for Parkers Lake
Playfiel,d which features two soccer fields, three baseball fields,
two of which are 90' diamonds, four tennis courts with an adjacent
basketball court, two tot lots, picnic grounds with shelter located on
the site of the Workhouse Superintendent's house, parking for about:
200 cars, and, a concession Irestroom building which wilt be located
between the baseball fields., Hennepin County has granted the City
permission for an entrance and an exit off County Road 6. The
entrance to the picnic grounds will be: one way off County Road 6, and
will use the existing driveway access to the Workhouse
Superintendent's property. This, site. will also have a gate at both
the entrance and exit, This will be a large group picnic area with
parking on site for about 12 cars. Staff is recommending that
lighting be included on the internal roadway/parking areas, tennis and
basketball courts, the large soccer field and one large baseball
field. Tunnel access 'co the Parkers Lake City Park will eventually be
provided near the intersection. of Niagara Lane and County 'Road 6.
Chair Freels invited comments from residents, but since none were -
present, he asked the commissioners for their questions and comments.
Commissioner Rosen asked what the: plans are for the southwest side of
the Parkers Lake City Park. Staff respondedthat the master site plan
called for group picnic facilities with shelter buildings, but it was
contingent on securing off road parking in that area. Commissioner
Rosen then stated that he agreed with: the comments made by a resident
in a letter received by the Commission that group picnic facilities
were not appropriate at the new Parkers Lake Playfi,eld site. It's a
dupl.ic.Aion of services. He wants staff to further research the
proposed group picnic aria on the southwest side of Parkers Lake, and
to leave the old Workhorse Superintendent's property as is
Commissioner Beach stated that she supports the new proposed group
picnic area, because she feels the City needs a place for groups to
reserve, since the large picnic shelter on the south side of County 6
is on a first-come, first -serve basis.
Commissioner Anderson stated that Plan #2 as presented by staff was
supported by the residents with the exception of one person. He
commented that a tunnel is going to be constructed under County 6,
which will provide access to the park on the south side of 6.
Commissioner Hanson stated that French Park, has group picnic
facilities which can be reserved, so she isn't sure that we need' them
at the new playfield site.She also commented that the tunnel will
provide some safety for people who want to get to the other side of
County Road 6, but it's pretty far away from the group picnic area..
She is also concerned about haw the one way access would be controlled
to prevent it from becoming a two-way road.
Chair Freels supports the group picnic area and the development of the
old Superintendent's property. He has visited the site with the
x
consultant and believes it is an ideal spot for a picnic grounds..
0
June 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 22
Commissioner Rosen stated that if Plan #2 is approved,; he, would like
the,, proposed picnic, grounds on the southwest side of Parkers Lake to
be deleted from the muster site plan,.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ANDERSON AND SECONDED BY
COMMISSIONER BEACH TO ADOPT PLAN 2 AS PRESENTED BY STAFF,; INCLUDING
THE LIGHTING RECOMMENDATIONS. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH FIVE, AYES;
COMMISSIONER ROSEN VOTED NAY; COMMISSIONER WAAGE WAS ABSENT,
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ,ROSEN' AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
HANSON TO DELETE THE PROPOSED GROUP PICNIC AREA ON THE SOUTHWEST SIDE
OF PARKERS LAKE CITY PARK FROM THE MASTER SITE PLAN. THE MOTION
CARRIED WITH FOUR AYES., COMMISSIONERS ANDERSON AND EDWARDS VOTED NAY.
b, bass Lake elayfigld Master Site Plan. George Watson briefly explained
five different concept, planswhich he. ;prepared for Bass Lake,, and
stated that Plan 5 was prepared because of resident input. Staff is,
recommending Plan 3`, which includes one large and one small soccer
field, one 90' baseball field, one 65' softball/baseball field, one
hockey rink, a general skating rink, one tot lot, a picnic area, four
tennis courts with an adjacent basketball court and parking for 218
ct.rs. Plan 5 is slightly different, with the deletion of the small
soccer field and the hockey rink moved to a location east of the
pleasure skating area, rather than 'being; south of the pleasure skating
rink as shown in Plan 3.
Chair Freels opened the public meeting and invited residents to make
comments.
Dick Bangston, 12.470 54th Avenue, stated he is not against the park.,
but is concerned about its effect on the, neighborhood. He is against
lighting. He thought that positive steps had been taken in developing
the ,five different plans and said he prefers Plan 5. He encouraged
staff that if a plan is approved, they should work with the group Kids
for Saving Earth. Chair Freels commented that as many trees as.
possible would be preserved..
Pete Beckman, 12905 55th Avenue, opposes the playfield. He stated
that he knew about the plans to build the playfield when he moved in,
but assumed things would change. He lives right on the park and wants
it to remain natural. Right now it is a wildlife refuge and he would
like it to stay that way. He named several other cities around the
Plymoluth area where ball fields can be utilized. Chairman Freels
reminded Mr. Beckman that the City purchased the land in 1981 and
alaiays intended to build a playfield there.
Norman Gartner, 12910 56th Avenue, moved: to this area in 1984. He has
a young son who looks forward to playing ball. He stated that the
fields in the surrounding communities are not available to Plymouth
residents as Mr. Beckman claims. He. has waited six years for this,
playfield to be constructed and wants it built as soon as possible.
He prefers Plan 5 with lights only on the tennis courts. He is
concerned about the timing of the construction of Northwest Boulevard
and urges the City to build a temporary access to the park if
Northwest. Boulevard isn't in when the park is completed.
June 1990 POC Minute
Page 23
Don Kutz, 13005 55th Avenue,, lives on the northwest corner of the.
proposed playfield and states that he believes the park will be built
regardless of 'how some residents feel. He is not against the park but
is concerned about fencing and landscaping and keeping park users from
trespassing on his property:, Chair Freels commented thatstaff is
sensitive to this issue and will work with residents to minimize the
possibility of trespassing.
Neal Lawson, 12730 54th Avenue, stated he was thankful for the process
of involving the residents and also believes the park will be built.
He is concerned about drainage and he is opposed to any lights. He
feels the park's construction should be timed to coincide with the.
completion of Northwest Boulevard.
Scott Glatstein, 12850 54th Avenue, commented that he knew about the
park when he moved in, but that the proposed plans are not the same as
the one on the sign. He was quite upset to learn that a, hockey rink
is. proposed next to his back yard'. He was happy to see that Plan 5
calls for moving the hockey rink farther away.
Dick Livermore, 12840 54th Avenue., knew about the park when he moved
in,, He prefers Plan 5 and is opposed to lights. If Northwest
Boulevard isn't in when the park is ready for use, he feels people
will trespass on private residents' property to get to the park.
Jim Stimson, 13820 60th Place, stated he is in favor of the park. He
has children old enough to play organized sports and now spends four
nights a week driving them to northern, Maple Grove to play. tie likes
Plan 5 but doesn't want lights. He thinks the cable for lights should
be installed', however, when the park is built.
Fran. Otto, 5475 Rosewood Lane, is concerned about drainage on his
property. He is opposed to lights:. He would like as many trees and
vegetation preserved as possible-.
Libby Fairchild, 1725 Weston Lane, commented that even though she
doesn't live in this area, she supports the construction of this
playfield and the Parkers Lake site She was curious about why there
is a hockey rink, proposed for Bass Lake but not Parkers Lake. Staff
responded that: there is more need for a hockey rink in northern
Plymouth at this gime, and that a hockey rink could be placed on
Parkers Lake if necessary,
Commissioner Beach then commented that it was her impression that the
Plymouth -Wayzata Hockey Association didn't want outdoor ice, only
indoor rinks. Director Blank confirmed that. Wayzata Hockey has plenty
of outdoor ice, but that in northern Plymouth, there are only two
outdoor rinks, and they are locatedat Zachary Playfield.
Director Blank stated that it is not feasible to lay underground
electricity for future lighting, but electric transformers could be
installed at the time the playfield is constructed. Staff is
recommending that lighting be included on the large soccer field, the.
tennis/basketball courts, the hockey/pleasure skating rinks, and the
parking lots
June 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 24
A resident commented that he did not want lights on the large soccer
field, because, of the, elevation of his property. His sight line will
be in direct line with the top of the lights. Chairman Freels
commented that staff will work with the residents on screening them
from the lights as much as possible. Mr. Watson commented that the
soccer field is at a lower elevation than the surrounding residents'
property and that trees will be planted to help shield the glare of
the lights,. He also stated that electrical engineers are now
designing lights to ease the glare:
Commissioner Rosen stated that he lives on a neighborhood park and
that Director ;Blank lives on a major playfield, so they both are aware
of the activities that take place in these parks. He further stated
that he is upset with the 'City's Planning Commission for giving
developers the go ahead to build homes surrounding playfields. He
commented that he was involved in the process to get a sign. installed
in the Bass Lake neighborhood informing prospective buyers that a
playfield would. be built there.
Commissioner Edwards asked ,if there, is a type of lighting availablegg
that doesn't spill over. Director Blank responded that advancements
are being made in the Lighting industry all the time. Mr. Watson
indicated they would carefully consider the height of the light poles,
the color of the lights and that the intent of the City is to minimize
light: spill Commissioner Edwards thinks it is necessary to light the
skating rinks, and she supports the addition of the small soccer field
as shown in Plan 3.
Commissioner Beach stated that she is the President of the. Plymouth
Soccer Association and that 33% of the kids in the program are, from
northern Plymouth. She supports putting the small soccer field back
in the master site plan.
Commissioner Anderson wanted to know why the small soccer field was
deleted from Plan 5. Staff said it was because of resident concerns
that they wanted more of the park left natural. Commissioner Anderson
commented that the demand for soccer is very high.
Commissioner Hanson asked about the scheduled extension of Schmidt
Lake Rosd to Northwest Boulevard'. Councilman Ricker responded that
Schmidt Lake. Road could be constructed before the park is completed.
Commissioner Hanson further stated that if the playfield is
constiscared, staff should coordinate with the Naple Grove Athletic
Asso+cs "ion so that half of the games are played at this playfield and
hall i-- Maple Grove, staff should meet with the surrounding residents
concerning fencing and landscaping, and also meet with the group Ki.ds-
fot Savin; Earth on the plans for the south part of the park where the
tot lot and picnic grounds are proposed.
Commissioner Edwards wondered where else the small soccer field could
go if it's removed from its present location. Staff responded that
there is no other available location.
M
June 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 25
Chairman. Freels stated that he supports Plan 3. Residents present
reacted somewhat negatively to this comment and claimed that Plan 5 is
what they want. They feel it is less -"community" oriented, and more
neighborhood,'. than Plan 3.
Commissioner Rosen commented that based on the standards adopted by
PRAC, the City will be short in the area of baseball/softball and,
soccer/football fields, even if Bass Lake Playfield and Parkers Lake
are built to capacity. HeHe believes that scheduling procedures could
help alleviate some of the pressure by scheduling more games and
practices on weekends,
Commissioner Beach stated she, is in favor of the small soccer field.'
for use by four and five year olds.. She stated that a lot of these
parents are driving their youngsters to southern. Plymouth in order to
play now.
Commissioner rEdwards wondered if Plan 5 were approved, could the
hockey boards be removed in the spring so that this area could be used
for soccer. The consultant responded that this was not very feasible.
He went on to explain that the area south of the hockey rink in. Plan 5
could lie graded and then mowed to accommodate soccer, but it would not
be a "formal soccer field. He also stated that the hockey boards
coule be used as a retaining wall because of the elevation and this
area could be landscaped, so that the residents wouldn't notice the
hockey rink as; much. A resident then commented that because of the
proximity of the hockey rink to his property, and the fact that hockey
rinks are flooded at 4 a.m., it was asking a lot of him to put up with
a rink so close to his back yard and that was why he preferred Plan 5.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ROSENTO ADOPT PLAN 5 AS PRESENTED
BY THE CONSULTANT AND TO APPROVE' THE LIGHTING RECOMMENDED BY STAFF.
THE MOTION DIED FOR LACK.OF A SECOND.
A -MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ROSEN TO ADOPT PLAN 5 WITH NO
LIGHTING AT THIS TIME. THE MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER HANSON TO ADOPT PLAN 3, WITH THE
FOLLOTRING CONDITIONS; HOCKEY BOARDS SHOULD BE DEPRESSED AND NOT
VISIBLE TO THE RESIDENTS, THE SMALL SOCCER FIELD SHOULD BE LEFT AS AN
OPEN AND PASSIVE PLAY AREA, THE PROGRAMMING OF THIS PLAYFIELD SHOULD
BE COORDINATED WITH MAPLE GROVE, KIDS FOR SAVING EARTH SHOULD BE
INVOLVED IN PLANNING THE OPEN PICNIC AREA, THE RESIDENTS ADJACENT TO
THE PARK SHOULD BE INVOLVED IN LANDSCAPING PLANS AND SOCCER LIGHTING
SHOULD ,BE DELETED IN THE INITIAL DEVELOPMENT PHASE. LIGHT ONLY THE
PARKING LOT, TENNIS COURTS AND SKATING RINKS. THE MOTION DIED FOR
LACK. OF A SECOND.
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER ROSEN AND SECONDED BY CHAIR FREELS
TO ADOPT PLAN 5 AND TABLE THE LIGHTING ISSUE FOR FURTHER DISCUSSION
AND A LATER MOTION. THE MOTION FAILED WITH FOUR NAYS. COMMISSIONERS
ROSEN AND FREELS VOTED AYE.
I
Commissioner Freels commented that Plan 3 was almost identical to Plan
5, with the exception of the added soccer .field and the location of
the hockey rink. The consultant stated that soccer could be
accommodated in Plan 5 with some grading and reshaping of the area;
south of the hockey rink.
A resident wondered if the, general skating rink and the hockey rink
could be reversed in the plan? This way the hockey rink would be even
farther ;away from the residents and they might not notice the hockey
boards at all. They wouldn't trind as much the pleasure rink being
close to :their homes:
The commissioners asked Mr. Watson if this was feasible. He responded
that it was and that grading the area south of the rinks for the
purpose of playing informal soccer there would not be a problem._
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER-EDWARDS AND SECONDED BY CHAIR FREELS
TO ADOPT PLAN 5, REVERSE THE HOCKEY AND PLEASURE SKATING RINKS, DO THE
MINOR GRADING EAST OF THE RINKS SO SOCCER CAN BE PLAYED THERE, AND
APPROVE THE LIGHTING RECOMMENDATIONS MADE BY STAFF. THE MOTION
CARRIED WITH FIVE AYES., COMMISSIONER. ROSEN VOTED NAY.
Director Blank commented that all plans prepared by the consultant
will go to the City Council and they will have the option to adopt any
of them.
Chair Freels thanked the residents, staff and the consultant for all
their efforts.
C. 1991-95 CIP. Director Blank reviewed his proposals for the 1.991-95
CTP and explained that he was not recommending a playground at:
Plymouth Creek Elementary School, because of the playfield proposed at
Dunkirk Lane and County Road 9 The request for a playground at
Plymouth Greek Elementary is for matching funds from the City, and
Director Blank feels we should spend City funds on our own parks
first. He further explained that Plymouth Creek Elementary is not
designated as a neighborhood park in the system plan and., therefore,
does not quality for matching funds.
Commissioner Beach requested that an outdoor pool be included in the
1991 CIP. Commissioner Edwards asked her why outdoor. She responded
that she doesn't feel the community will ever vote to build an indoor
pool and she also feels that an outdoor pool is less expensive to
build.
Commissioner Rosen stated he doesn't, like the words "soccer/baseball"
associated with the playground at Shiloh Park in the 1991. CIP. He
thinks that connotates playfield-, and he doesn't want anyone getting
the idea that Shiloh will be a play£ield. He is also against any
soccer goals or backstops in 'neighborhood parks. He suggests that the
wording should be changed to Shiloh Park _redevelopment. Director
Blank responded that he put the words soccer/baseball in the
description, because this is what the residents requested when they
attended the May meeting. Commissioner Rosen also said that he
June 1990 PRAC Minutes
Page 27
dcanf.- ove; the community center belongs anywhere in the CTP. He
drat the purchase of a golf course be included in the year
aeon asked by other commissionerswhy he doesn't want the
center in the CIP, Rosen responded that he doesn't think the
City Council will allocate enough funding to build it. Councilman
Ricker commented that PRAC should` not be as concerned with where the
funds will come from but more with what the community needs. He
further explained that a special financial task force is being formed
that will be studying the City's financial history and will make
recommendations on what items the City would: have the ability to fund.
He also stated that it is up to the Council to decide how to spend the
funds in the CIP and that if PRAC wants a community center, the CIP is
where it should be listed.
Chair, Freels asked staff to identify which trails are being proposed
in the CIP.
d. West Medicine Trail Update. This trail will be going out for bid in
the very near future.
e., 46th Avenue Trail sjgdate. This is being designed in-house by
engineering staff.
6. NEW BUSINESS
None.
7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION
Commissioner Beach commented that she is upset about the City of New Hope
charging Plymouth residents a fee to use their pool, when we allow New
Nope children to play on our fields without charging them a fee. She
would like FRAC to consider drafting a policy that would charge non -
Plymouth residents involved in youth athletics a fee of $5.
Commissioner' Rosen said that he was angry that Plymouth kids are being cut
from traveling teams by non-Flymouth kids, which means they can't play on
Plymouth fields.
8.. STAFF COMMUNICATION
Director Blank handed out some information to the commissioners on
Canterbury Downs Night being sponsored by MRPF as a fund raiser. The
event is scheduled for July 18
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting, adjourned at 11 p.m.
Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
July 12, .1990'
Page 28
Present: Chairman Freels, Commissioners Anderson, Edwards, Beach, Rosen,
Hanson, and 'Waage; staff Blank, Patterson-Bisek, Anderson, Sankey,
Councilman Ricker
Absent: none
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Freels called the July meeting to order at 7:30 p.m. in the Counil
Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
Chair Freels felt, that a sentenceshouldbe added to the June minutes on
Page 24, after Paragraph 1._, stating that the Chair closed the Public
hearing. Chair Freels moved to approve the minutes with this change. It
was seconded by Commissioner Rosen. The motion carried will: all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present.
b. staff. Cindy Anderson presented this month's "Employee of the Month"
certificate to Linda McKinley, Senior Head Lifeguard. Linda has
worked for the Parks & Recreation Department since 1986 as a life
guard and swimming instructor. She ha.s over 240 hours of training for
her certifications and at least 180 hours of incervice 'training. She
supervises, trains, and schedules the life guards, coordinates the
Wayzata Beach program, and performs various related administrative
duties. Her exceptional knowledge, friendly attitude, and sincere
concern for safety help mold the life guard staff into a real team.
Cindy stated that beach attendance is up. The new life- jacket and
wading areas at the beaches have been added, and use of them is high.
The use of life jackets in these marked areas has not been as high as
expected, but use by small children for wading has been very popular.
This year's lifeguard staff is excellent. Many of the guards are 3rd
or 4th year employees, so experience is high. Attendance at Parkers
Lake has been very high, contributing to more concession sales.
Swimming lessons are being held at Wayzata West Jr. High this year.
The classes have been filling up quickly because of the lack of
Wayzata East Jr. High. The Red Cross instituted a new Whales Tales
safety program which we use with good success. The Whales Tales are
also used at the Day Camp, which is going very well. The group size
is kept fairly Small, which contributes to a family feeling. PITS
attendance is up; the new sites seem to be working well. The Friday
special events are very well attended.
Mary Patterson-Bisek stated that all the staff deserves a pat on the
back due to the handling of all the rained -out activities. For.