HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 04-19-1990MINUTES OF THE PARK AND RECREATION ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING
April 19.,'199G
Page 7
Present:- Chair Freels,, Commissioners Anderson, Waage, Beach, Rosen, and
Hanson; staff Blank, Busch, Patterson and Pederson; park consultant
Barry Warner, Swan Lake residents_, Buss Lake residents, athletic
association representatives, and Shiloh Park residents
Absent: Commissioner Edwards
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Freels called the April meeting to order at 7:35 p.m the Council
Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Anderson and seconded by Commissioner
Waage to approve the minutes of the March meeting as presented. The
motion carried, with all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. Libby Fairchild, 1725 Weston Lane,
representing the Plymouth -Wayzata Soccer Club, made a request of the
park commission to study the need for additional soccer facilities.
She would like that study to include a consideration for an indoor
facility., She stated that she would be willing to serve on a
committee to help with this research.
b. 3&ALL Rick Busch presented an Employee of the Month certificate and
plagi.e to Greg Finn, a part-time recreation employee, ;in recognition
of his commitment and dedication to the Park and Recreation
Department. Greg has a degree in recreation and has been working for
the Plymouth Park and Recreation Department for the past three years.
He was hired initially to coordinate the fall soccer program. Rick
praised Greg for his willingness to help staff in any area and for the
fact that he is always available when needed. The Employee of the
Month plaque is a new program that Rick suggested after seeing
something similar done in another community. The plaque will be
displayed outside the Park and Recreation Department and new names
will be added each month.
Mary Patterson distributed information on the recreation division's
first quarter budget. She explained that some program expenses appear
to be more than program revenues, andthat's because certain programs
which run in the winter months might not take in all of their revenue
until the next calendar year.
Mary told the Commission about the "Celebrate the Outdoors in
Pl mouth" ro ram scheduled for A ril 28 at Armstrong High School andyPgP
French Park. The program was planned as an extension of Earth Day,
which is April 22, and will focus on environmental issues.
PRAC Minutes/April 1990
Fuge
Mary announced that Walk Minnesota is May 5 and will start at the
Parkers Lake Pavilion.
She informed the Commission that a company located in Plymouth,
Schneider USA, would like to donate funds, to the Park and Recreation
Department for a'summer concert and is also willing to 'buy all the t
ball shirts ;for the youth in that program.
The summer program brochurehasbeen delivered, and most summer hiring
of part-time staff is completed. The planning of fall-winter programs
begins in June.. Mary stated that the recreation division will be
asking for more funds in tax supported programs at budget request
time, due to the need for additional programs such as Playground in
the Streets and the puppet wagon in expanding areas of Plymouth.
4. REPORT ON PAST COUNCIL ACTION'
a. Comprehensive Plan URdate. At their meeting on April 16, the City
Council approved the park and trail component of the City's
comprehensive plan without any amendments. The entire comprehensive
plan goes to the Metropolitan Council now for their review and
comment_,
b. Neighborhood Park Standards. At their April 2 meeting, the Council
rescinded the minimum standards for neighborhood parks and replaced
those standards with the directive that PRAC and staff examine each
park site individually and design neighborhood parks based on
community input, coim on sense and sound park planning practices.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. ,Ewan Lake Neighborhood '}_ Park Director Blank briefly reviewed the
platining process to date on Swan Lake park for the benefit of those
commissioners who had not attended the previous planning meetings and
for any residents who b"dl been unable to be at earlier meetings. He
explained that as a reg of the two previous meetings and input from
residents, a preferred pian had been drawn and was being presented
tonight. He then introduced park consultant Barry Warner, who
displayed the concept plan ,and explained it in detail.
Chair Freels noted that staff and the commissioners had received a
letter from resident Suzanne Nimmo 4545 Quinwood Lane, previous to
the eveningla meeting, favoring the development of Swan Lake
neighborhood park. He then called inion residents to come forward and
make comments regarding the park.
Steve Gruenke, 4415 Oakview Lane, presented Chair Freels with a
petition signed by 27 residents, opposing an "active" park. They
prefer to have a more, passive park, with trails and natural
landscaping_ only. They are against play structures, backstops, picnic
tables and parking.
Sam Macalus, 4505 Quinwood Lane, stated' that he was representing his
neighbors on Quinwood and that they support a park with a playground
PRAC,Minutes/April 1990
Page 9
for children and other facilities. He believes theplan as presented
provides active and passive areas and meets the needs of many
residents. He stated he did not feel that the park should serve :as
back yard extensions for those homeowners abutting the park property.
Tom Olson, 4425 Oakview .Lane, favors the playground area, but is not
comfortable with a picnic area,. He does not want any picnic tables.
He is against parking. He likes the hardcourt area, open field area
and the trail. Sam Macalus spoke up and said he didn't think one or
two picnic tables constituted a formal picnic area. Mr. Olson
disagreed and made his point again that he did not want any picnic
tables;
Kathy Skow, 4540 Quinwood Lane, favors the park, but does not want any
parking. She is concerned about the safety of the children and
conjestion .caused by traffic, and she feels that a parking lot would
encourage that traffic.
Cheryl Erickson, 4435 Oakview Lane,, said: that she checked with their
builder, Gordon Johnson, who was unaware that any type of park, other
than a natural one, was being considered for this area. He informed
her that the park would have only trails in it leading to French Park.
She is opposed to any development. Her property abuts the park on the
east side and they have a large swimming pool in their back yard. She
wants the City to construct a buffer zone of trees and shrubs to
protect her property if the park plan is approved. She believes that
the value of her property will decrease by $50,000 if the park is
constructed.
Commissioner Rosen commented that this park has been part of the
Comprehensive Plan since 1982 and it is public information, provided
to developers if requested.
Scott Audie, 12535 45th Avenue, commented that he favor= the _park and
has always been aware of it. He built his home in :1980. He is
concerned about access to the park for those who live east: of Quinwood
and in the Schmidt Lake Hills area. He received a copy of a letter
from Mr. Arendt (as did the park commission and the City),, concerned
that people would trespass across his property to get to and from the
park. Director Blank respondedthat there are two options for access
for these residents. One is to get an easement from the homeowners to
build a trail, which is the method_ preferred by staff, or to condemn a
portion of someone's property to gain access. Director Blank stated
that Mr. Arendt has agreed to grant a portion of his property as an
easement to gain access to the park, but other property is needed to
complete the access. Staff will work with residents in 'Schmidt Lake
Hills to try and resolve this issue.
Chair Freels closed the public meeting at 8:08 p.m. and stated that
the Commission had some options with regard to the Swan Lake park,
including approving the concept plan as presented, modifying the plan,
or disapproving it and asking staff to work on it further.
e
PRAC;Minutes/April 1990
Page 10
A resident living at 4335 Oakview Lane commented that he would like to
see Swan Lake park constructed using natural materials. Make the play
structure out of wood, rather .than plastic. He noticed the children
in the audience wearing "Kids for Saving Earth" t -shirts ,and commented
that this park would be a good place to start, in terms of being
environmentally conscious He also stated that .a ball field probably
wasn't necessary, since Zachary Playf,ield isn't that far away, and
irom his point of views, very few people use the Zachary fields.
Commissioner Beach said that at the ,last Swan Lake planning meeting,
she took the children aside and; asked them what they wanted as far as
a play structure was concerned. All, of the children were in agreement
that it should be made of wood..
Commissioner Anderson suggested that the park plan be studied further
before final approval, particularly in reference to the issue of trees
and shrubbery acting as a buffer between the private property on the
east side and the open ball field area.
Chair Freels said that approximately 40-45 people attended the first
Swan. Lake meeting, 80 or more, including children, attended the second
meeting, and several were in attendance at tonight's meeting, and that
the plan presented was a result of the first two meetings and what the
majority of the residents had requested.,
Commissioner Rosen talked about the shrubbery and trees issue and
indicated that the City was very good about meeting with the residents
who live on neighborhood parks and their need for privacy.. He
understands that some residents want to be able to look into the park
and others don't. He is against constructing a parking lot.
A MOTION WAS -MADE BY COMMISSIONER BEACH AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
ROSEN TO APPROVE THE SWAN LAKE PARK PLAN AS PRESENTED WITH A
RECOMMENDATION THAT NO PARKING LOT BE CONSTRUCTED AT THIS TIME, THAT
THE PLAY EQUIPMENT BE CONSTRUCTED OF WOOD, THAT STAFF WORK WITH THE
RESIDENTS ON THE TREE/SHRUBBERY PLANTINGS ON THE EAST SIDE, AND WORK
WITH RESIDENTS REGARDING ACCESS TO THE PARK FROM THE NORTHEAST CORNER.
Commissioner Hanson agreed that staff should ,go ahead with the park as
planned, making sure that the passive areas are as little developed as
possible with Lots of 'natural grass and unmowed areas and no organized
athletics on the ballfield.
Commissioner Anderson questioned the parking issue, and Chair Freels
commented that maybe years .from now residents will decide they want
it, at which time it could be constructed, but for now it will be
excluded, since that seems to be the consensus of the residents.
Commissioner Waage commented that she thinks the park plan is a good
one, with a 70% passive area, and she feels the Commission does the
best job that it can.
There was a roll call votes and the motion carried with six ayes
Hanson, Rosen, Beach, Freels, Waage and Anderson; Commissioner
Edwards was absent.)
PRAC Minutes/April 1990
Page: 11
Chair Freels thanked the residents for their attendance at all the
planning meetings. and indicated that staff would continue to work with
them.
b. 284 Baseball Mary Norton, Mary Norton, representing Plymouth
Wayzata Youth Baseball, made a presentation to the Park Commission
asking for the development of additional baseball fields in Plymouth
in the year 1990. She provided back --up written materials to support
her request along with a videotape of Braemer fields in Edina,
considered by some to be the "cadillac of baseball fields." Some of
the statistics she noted: youth baseball has grown steadily the past
four years, with 150 additional children signing up in 1990,
constituting 10 new teams. These teams need practice time of three
hours per week and depending on level of play, two or three games per
week. There are no facilities in Plymouth large enough to host a
youth baseball tournament. She disagrees with the statement that they
don't use fields to their maximum on weekends. She claimsthat their
request to use fields on weekends has been denied in the past. She
indicated that their baseball association would like to request that
Plymouth build a four field complex that would accommodate baseball
and softball and could be used for tournament purposes for baseball.
She stated that the Association doesn't care where in the City these
fields are located, as long as they are available to the Plymouth
Wayzata Youth Baseball group., They don't necessarily need to be
lighted, however,, lights will expand playing time and will allow for
double headers in the evening.
The Connissioners thanked Mary and the other representatives from the
Plymouth -Wayzata Youth Baseball Association for attending the meeting
and env... -,.-aged them to attend future Park Commission meetings, because
they are always on the agenda. Chair Freels indicated to Mary that
the next item on the agenda was the discussion of the Bass
Lake/Parkers Lake Playfields, and suggested that she Stay to hear the
discussion on that item since it might answer some of her questions.
c. Playfields' - Bass Lake/Parkers Lake. Director Blank announced that
the City Council accepted the feasibility reports prepared for Parkers
Lake and Bass Lake playfields and approved having plans and
specifications prepared for both of these playfields. Director Blank
reminded everyone that this is not the same as authorization to go
ahead' and build the playfields. it is only approval of the plans and
specs. Director Blank said it would take anywhere from six to eight
weeks to prepare the plans and specifications, and this won't happen
until after the resident meetings to get input. Chair Freels
comnen.ted that the Mayor has specifically requested that PRAC make a
recommendation on whether or not to light portions of these
playfields.
Chair Freels then invited the residents to ask questions and state
their concerns.
PMC :Minutes/April 1990
Page 12
Matt Bangston, 12470 54th Avenue N, representing, Kids For Saving
Earth, and a sixth grader at Sunny Hollow school, spoke ,against
turning Bass Lake playfeld into a major athletic complex. He and
several of his classmates (Chris Clark, Dan Springrose, Jeremy Regan,
Erica Hanson, Alisha Bngelmeyer and Carrie Hanson), also in attendance
at the meeting, would prefer to have only one baseball/softball field,
one football/soccer field., with the parking lot in the center. They
would like lots of natural areas, biking/hiking trails, two tennis
courts combined with basketball, with the idea that when tennis is not
being played, the nets could be taken down- and basketball played
instead. They would like lots of trees, very minimal Lighting. In
the winter time, they would like the skating rink to chose by 11 p.m.
They would like to have the park named after Clinton Hill, a classmate
of theirs who passed away last November from a brain tumor. They said
that it was Clinton's idea to keep the Bass Lake Playfield a nature
area and save it for the wildlife. They sail that Clinton played
there a lot, riding on the natural trails and in the woods. They told
the commissioners that it was Clinton's idea to form the group, "Kids
For Saving Earth."
Commissioner Wnage stated that she was a supporter of "Kids for 'Saving
Earth," and knew all of these children, because of her work at Sunny
Hollow School. She stated that the organization has received national
attention and is now going to be recognized internationally.
Chair Freels and the rest of the Commission thanked the children for
coming to the meeting and for their input on the Bass Lake Playfield.
He informed them there would' be additional meetings to discuss this
park, and that they would be invited.
Matt Brngston told the commissioners that he wants only one
baseball/softball field at Bass Lake, because he thinks, the other
pl:ayfields, such as Zachary, don't get used enough to warrant building
more ball diamonds. He wants Bass Lake to look more like the Elm -
Creek Park Reserve.
Susan Hochstein., 12520 54th Avenue, indicated that her concerns
regarding Bass Lake Playfield focused on traffic, parking, lighting
and preserving wildlife. She would like the plans to be downgraded,
and suggested that bigger park complexes be located where there are
less homes
It was the consensus of FRAC that staff should begin the process of
notifying the residents as soon as possible about the planning for
Bass Lake Playfield and Parkers Lake Playfield.
Mary Norton asked staff how long it takes for plans of this kind to be
prepared. Director Blank responded that at the very least, about four
weeks, but usually six to eight, weeks.
ti Chair Freel thanked Mary Norton and the other members of the Plymouth.
Wayzata Baseball Association for attending the meeting.
PRAC'Minutes/April 1990
Page 13
Commissioner Rosen recommended that when notifying people about the
Bass Lake/Parkers Lake meetings., athletic associations should also be
invited and that Rick Busch be in attendance, so that PRAC can hear
both sides of the issue on where fields are needed and if they are., or
are not, being used to their fullest potential.
Rick stated that after hearing Swan Lake and Bass Lake residents'
comments about playfields not being used, and therefore, not being
needed, he strongly disagreed and informed PRAC that Zachary P:layfield
was the site of over 1_,500 softball games last year. He also
commented that a referendum to make Central Park solely an athletic
complex, putting all baseball/softball, football/soccer and other
sports fields in one central location in the City, was soundly
defeated by the voters who, instead, wanted these athletic fields
located in various areas throughout the City. A referendum was
successfully passed in 1980, allowing the construction of Oakwood,
Zachary, Ridgemount,,_Plymouth Creek, LaCompte and Plymouth (Jr. High)
playfields.
d. Trails - West Medicine/46th Avenue. A mreeting was held with residents
along West Medicine Lake Drive about thy! construction of a trail along
their street. The City Council has approved the preparation of plans
and specifications for the construction of thit; trail from 18th Avenue
to the railroad tracks. Funding will be coming from the City and
Community Parks and Trails account,, and $72,000 will come from the
Minnesota State Aid Fund. Director Blank stated that the 46th Avenue
rail is being designed by City engineering staff.
e. Pgrk Tour. The annual PRAC tour of the parks is scheduled for May 17
beginning at 5 p.m. Box suppers will be served. Director Blany will
prepare the 1991-96 CIP :for the May 10 FRAC meeting,, listing those
parks and trails to be developed/ improved in 1991, and those sites
will be visited on the tour.
6. NEW BUSINESS
i
a.
i
Shiloh Park Petition. Mary Hustad, 17200 27th Avenue, requested that
PRAC make improvements to Shiloh Park. She referred to the petition
that, had been circulated and submitted to City staff and PRAC members.
She, stated she was aware of the fact that when. Shiloh was first built
and for many years thereafter, the residents wanted a very passive,
natural park. She said the turnover in families hiving there now has
changed that attitude. Residents are now looking for a park that 4s a
little more active. They would like to have the play equipment
upgraded and moved to a location ;on higher ground. Where it sits
now, it is always flooded when it ,rains. They would like a backstop
for ,pick up ball games and some soccer nets. Colin ;Hurst, one of
Shiloh's younger residents, told the commissioners that he helped
circulate the petition, and he also would like to have improvements
made to the park, so that he and his; friends can play ball. there.
Commissioner Rosen stated that the intent of neighborhood parks is to
be low-key, with no organized athletics taking place there. He said
he understands that occasicnally, a youth soccer team, or a youth
hRAC Minutes/April 1990
Page 14
t
baseball team, might organize a practice and Will use a: neighborhood
park if they can't get on a regular field. Re said he has been
anticipating that Shiloh residents would be coming to the City
requesting that their park be upgraded, since it is 10 years old now.
He asked staff if any? -king could be done about the drainage problem
there, and Director Blank said that because of surmountable curbs in
this development, it Would be very difficult to prevent storm water
run-off from draining into this park. The best solution at this time
Would be to move the playground; to higher ground.
Commissioner Hanson asked Mrs. Hustad if they could i wait until next
year to have their park upgraded. She responded that it would be okay
to wait until then for the playground, but she preferred that some
sort of ballfield area,be done this year. Commissioner Rosen, informed
Mrs. Hustad that Shiloh is not in the CTP for 1990, and there are no
funds available to do any improvements there, unless funding is taken
away from another project planned for 1990. Director Blank said the
City could probably buy two soccer nets for p.lacment in Shiloh Park
this summer. Chair Freels asked staff to see if anything, could be
done this year. Commissioner Hanson stated sh;. is not in favor of
doing any improvements this year to Shiloh., Commissioner Beach
suggested that t1:e first thing that should be done is resolving the
drainage problem. Commissioner Hanson suggested doing a master plan
for Shiloh, and following the same proced,tres as with Swan Lake
neighborhood p&rk.
Tim Dunnigan, 17330 28th Avenue, spoke against putting in any type of
ball f .:ld area. He feels the park is too small to support this type
of activity, and; it will interefere with the walking path. The
walking path would be right in line with the right and left foul lines
and people could =Let hit by fowl Lalls. He disagrees that the park is
unusable. Last wzkend, 12 people t:.'.:`e flying kites, others were
Watching, some were playing football: He is concerned about the
safety of walkers and joggers, becausm of the tree roots pushing up
the asphalt path. Director Blank said thore is a separate fund, for
repairing the City's trails and that he believes Shiloh is on the
schedule for trail improvements this spring. Mr. Dunnigan said he
does not oppose improving the play equipment or relocating it, because
he hat: grandchildren who use it. He commented on the petition that
Mrs. Hustadcirculated saying that he felt it was misleating to
people. If more people had understood the petition supported total
redevelopment with the balifield being the focal_ point, not as many
residents would have signed it.
Keith Franklin., 3025 Jewel. Lane, has lived in Shiloh for, four years.
He has young children who like to play in the parka He does not favor
any organized ball games, but an occasional ?ick -up game is okay. He.
agrees that water is a big problem and that the playground should be
moved to higher ground', He said that a iot of 'basketba.l is ;played on
the hard court by '16 and 17 year olds, who he believes don't live in
the Shiloh neighborhood. He said that he would be wi11; n,; to be on a
committee to redesign Shiloh Park.
ME
FRAC Minutes/April 1990
Page IS
A MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER HANSON AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
BEACH THAT SHILOHPARK BE 'EARMARKED' FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN THE 1991 CIP
BUT TO ADDRESS THE TRAIL, CONCERNS IN 1990., Commissioner Rosen;
suggested that a representative from. Shiloh should try to attend the
next few PRAC meetings to show continued support for the redevelopment
of this: park. The motion carried with all ayes.
b.. Glean och'Park Regyest. A request has been received by the City to do
some improvements to Gleanloch Park. Director Blank pointed out that
Gleanloch was built the same year as Shiloh. He stated he Would be
meeting with Gleanloch residents some time the week of April 23.
MOTION WAS M.ADF BY COMMISSIONER HANSON'_ AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER.
BEACH THAT GLEAILOCH PARK BE EARMARKED FOR IMPROVEMENTS IN THE 1991
CIP. The motion carried with all ayes.
c. Canoe Storage at Parkers Lake. A request has been made by the
management at Mallard Pointe Apartments to put. a canoe rack in at
Parkers Lake for the residents to use:.: Director Blank stated that
there are two racks at Medic Me Lake, but only one is being used.. A
MOTION WAS MADE BY COMMISSIONER, BEACH AND SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
ANDERSON TO MOVE ONE OF THE CANOE Rt.CKS FROM MEDICINE LAKE TO PARKERS
LAKE. The motion, carried with all ayes, i
d. Parkers Lake Water Use Rules. Director Blank informed the Commission
of a request made by a Wayzata resident to put a water ski course in
Parkers Lake. Unaware that it was not a permanent course and did not.
require a permit from the DNR, 'Director Blank told the gentleman that.
he should make his request before the Cit, Council. He also informed
the residents living on Parkers Lake that if they objected; to this.
course,, they should comment to the City Council as Well. Director
Blank later learned that no permit was necessary and that the
gentleman could go ahead without, City permission and put the course in
the lake. As a result of all of this, the residents on the lake are
now interested in some sort of water use regulations which would
prohibit certain. activities, jet skis in particular. Staff is in the
process of compiling data from the DNR on various water use rules and
will make this, information available to the City Council.
Commissioner Hanson stated she, .is also aware of a lot of the water use
regulations and would be happy to provide her help in this area.
Commissioner Rosen wanted it noted that as a graduate ofthe highest
learning institution in America, Gustavus Adolphus College, he
objected to Swedes being referred to as nitwits in one of the letters
written by a resident opposing, the water ski course.
e. iietlands, Task Force. The City Council has requested that members of
various. City commissions volunteer to be part of a Wetlands Task Force
to study and wake recommendations on wetlands regulations for
Plymouth. Don Anderson volunteered to be the PRAC representative.
7 COMMISSION' PRESENTATION
Chair Freels stated that at the April; 16 Council meeting, which he
attended, Councilmember Helliwell requested that PRAC begin studying
PRAC Minutes/April 1990
Page 16
special use facilities,,` such ae outdoor swimming pools, for inclusion in.
the Comp;'ehensive Park and Trail Plan. When asked,how soon FRAC could get
started on this task, Director Blank stated the next three months would be
very busy just planning the Baas Lake and Parkers Lake playfields..
Chair Freels stated that the members of FRAC need to pick someone to serve
as Vice Chair when he is unable to attend. Commissioner Waage nominated
Rick Rosen, and, he was unanimously approved,
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
None.
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourried,at 10:58 p.m.