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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Packet 03-10-1988Regular Meeting of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission March 10, 1988, 1:30 p.m. AGENDA 1. Call to Order 2.1 Approval of Minutes 3, Visitor- Presenations a. Athletic Associations. b. Staff. c Others: 4 Report on Past Council Action a. Parkers Lake Pavilion - Award of Bid b. Annual Report c St Marx's Master Plan 5. Unfinished Business a. Park Us=age/Cost, Stuoy Report. Discussion b. Parkers Lake Update C. Plymouth Creek Site Planning Update George Watson d. St. Mary's Neighborhood Park Update e. fi. 6. Now Business a. Now Plats - Review Neighborhood Park. County Road 9 & 494 b. Report on Plymouth Creek Park Soccer Field ci Joint Meeting with Council April 4 d, e 7. Commission Presentation R. Staff Co"unication 9. Adjournment Next Meeting - April 14 Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission. Meeting February 11, 1988 Page 6 Present: Chair Edwards, Commissioners Hanson, Reed, Rosen, Latour, Beach and Anderson; Councilman Ricker; Planning Commissioner Tierney; staff Blank, Busch, Patterson and Pederson I. CALL M OR]" Chair Edwards called the February meetirg to order at 7:05 p.m. in the Council Conference Room. 2, APPROVAL OF, MINUTES A motion was made by Commissioner Reed and seconded by Commissioner Roam: to approve the; minutes of the: January meeting as presented. The motion carried with all ayes. 3. VISITOR PRESENIATIONS a. Athletic Associations-, Their presentations; are covered under Item 5-a. b. Staff, Mary Patterson briefly discussed the hand-out she had prepared for PRAC on a decade of recreation statistic that she had mentioned at the January meeting. She also atethat the Winter Iceman Triathlon is set for Sunday:, February 14, beginning at 10 a.m. at French Park. She stated that the recreation department is sponsoring ; another skiing trip to Afton Alps on Monday, February 15 and that two full xaees would be going.; She indicated that the Orlando, Florida, Twins Trip is taking 23 area residents during Spring Break Week, March 26-April 2. c.. (lone. 4. REPCRr ON PAST CODICIL ACTION a. Final . enmt -, Fakers Lake Seed- and'_ Scud. The City Council approved this final payment at their meeting on February 8. b. Selwted West Site :for Oomninity Center in Ply=th Creek Park. Council approved .the selection of a westerly site for the proposed cmumity center. Mayor Schneider recommended that FRAC look into pursuing the purchase of the 15-acre site as the possible .location. c. aMoved the 1988 Fee Schedule/Rental Policies, 5. UNFINISHED BUSniMS a. Park UwKielcost Study Fenort DiMZ&21 n.. Several athletic association representatives were present to be a part of the t: February PRAC Minutes, Page 7 discussion on this item. Director Blank began by reviewing the document he, had prepared for the City Manager and briefly outlining the philosophies of the Task. Force on Park and Recreation Program Financing. He also reviewed the park maintenance operating costs in the areas of neighborhood parks as well, as playfields. He further stated that the City Cotmil has asked. the Park Commission, as well as the Park and Recreation Department, to consider ways to relieve the escalating costs of park maintenance mWor to raise additional reverxxs. Director Blank than vmiated that, he believes there are three possible ways to do this: 1) Cut back some maintenance -(i.e., mowing, trimming, etc.) 2) Solicit, volunteer help firm the :4ssociations (i.e., lining certain areas of the fields, opening and closing the shelter building, supervising the field use) 3) Surcharging direct users. Another option for the City to oormi-`ier is to continuetooperate as we aiways have witnout any changes, although this does not solve the problem of rising costs. Don Vessey, representing the New Hope -Plymouth Athletic Association baseball),, indicated that their organization is losing the use of some fields in order to acoamadate Plymouth's adult softball teems. He's concerned that this is going to continue to happen and certainly doesn't feel right about paying user fees if that is the case. He did agree that some maintenance could be cut, but; only in areas euah as mowing and trimming in locations other than the actual playing fields. All in all, he's been very pleased with the maintenance of fields and would like to see things continue as they have; in the: past. Ron, Wilmot, representing the Wbyzata Plymouth. Soccer Club, has been very pleased with the facilities they've, used and wonders just now much, the maintenance costs could be cut if they did some volunteer maintenance for us. Director Blank responded that if all organizations volunteered`, an across-the-board savings, of '$8,000-' 10,000: might be possible. Gail Dieleman, President of the New Hope Plymouth Athletic Association, stated that he has also been very pleased with the maintenance of fields. He is reluctant to pay user fees, because they try to keep their costs as low as possible. Presently, the City of New Hope pays for the cost of referees for the children livOg in New Hope that participate in youth sports. Plymouth kids re charged an additional $11-$12 for referee fees, since the City of Plymouth does not subsidize in any way the Athletic Association. Plymouth does, however, provide fields for these sports. Chair Edwards asked if participation would drop if the City began charging a $5 user fee per child? Mr. Dielaman responded that it might drop slightly for the New Hope children. February PW Minutes Page 8 Greg Baufield, representing Wayzata -Minnetonka YouthFootball, stated that he has lived in Plymouth for many years. He, served in an advisory capacity on the Park and Recreation Commission when he was a high school student at Wayzata Senior High during the years that. Al, Hilde was Fayor of Plymouth. He indicated that he wcrked very hard on getting the bond passed in 1980 to build our playfields, and he finds it rather ironic now that the City is considering charging user fees to youth groups. He said that their association tries to keep costs down an much as possible inspite. of the fact that football equipment is sane of the most costly athletic equipment -there is. They ooWletely outfit the participant with all the getir they need to play football. He indicated that today a helmet costs $120, and five years ago, it only cost $30. A child can participate in football with their organization for $35. For those children that cannot afford this fee, they do provide some scholarships. He agreed with other representatives that Plymouth has the nicest facilities of, any they've used. He was against charging user fees and cutting back maintenance, but did say they might be able to volunteer sane. help in certain areas of maintenance. Rick Busch asked Mr. Baufield if their group is charged user fees by any other city, and Mr. Baufield raid no. Janet Bogen, representing the Wsyzata-Plymouth Soccer Club, stated that user fees would really hurt their association. She indicated that when they first formed, they did, their own mowing and lining of soccer fields, but that eventually tbe school district took over those responsibilities. So far, they have not been charged for this service, but she eqxcts they will, be billed at some point in, the future for this. She felt that maintenance costs could be cut by not building any more neighborhood parks. She feels the City has enough parks now to meet the needs of all residents. Carol Beach, representing the Plymouth Athletic ABsociation soccer), indicated that the younger age groups that join their organization will be playing soccer on fields at Wayzata West Junior High,, and she doesn't feel it would be fair to charge user fees to Plymouth kids if they don't use Plymouth fields. Their organization is new this year, and kids will be, charged $25 to play soccer this summer. If this fee proves to be more than they reed to cover their costs, it will be reduced in the future to $20 or $22-50. Don Veswy asked if maintenance costs could be reduced by charging adult users more fees. Rick Busch responded that adult softball team will be charged $365 this year to play in Plymouth. He feels that they already pay enough for the one hour a, week. they use the fields. He further stated that they cause minimal wear and tear on the fields as compared to soccer and football.. Bob. Losinger, representing Plymouth -Wayzata Youth Baseball, wanted to know what, percentage of the City's budget is appropriated for park and recreation maintenance. Director Blank said that for every 100 a Plymouth resident pays in property taxes, $14.69 goes to the City of Plymouthand of that amount, $12 goes for general fund purposes and park and recreation activities. Of that $12, $2.73 February PRAC Minutes goes .into the irk and recreation budget, with a; $1.54 to park mainterancei whist is 55% of the park and recreation budget, and: 12.55% of the. overall City budget. He further stated that park maintenance receives no revenues. Director Blank; staUA that he had received a phone call that day frau. an Edina Park commissionermissioner who had a number of questions, on our policies, fees, etc.,, and one, of the questions dealt with user fees. They're doing a survey of ot wr communities in the metropolitan area., Ttay have found that Edina residents have two major concerns about, user fees: they want assurance that the exo es revenue produced by user fees will go bads into the maintenance budget and not into the general fund, and families with three and four children. are concerned about Dow much extra they'd have to pay. After hearing f rei=n all: the athletic associations, Chair- Edwards summarized their thoughts, They made it clear that they do not want surcharges, they don't went maintenance cut back, and they feel they could offer- a little volunteer help. Greg Baufield asked what the next step in this process would be Chair We ards said that PRAC would be discussing their concerns and ideas in order to cane up with some recommendations for the City Council. She urged the athletic associations to continue to give staff their suggestions. Gail Dieleman requested that PRAC give the athletic associations at least six months to prepare for any user fees being implemented if Council decides to choose that cpt on. Staff responded that they would keep the athletic associations informed of all, meetings and. progress on this subject. Commissioner Rosen asked staff to prepare a report on how much money would be generated if all participants in the youth athletic associations were charged $5 each. This information will be available for FRAC by their March meeting. b. Parkers Iakete, Director Blank announced that all final. payments have been suede on the: Parkers Lake City Park project. He stated that so far, 17 'companies have pickedup specs on the construction of the pavilion, and that this project. is. to be bid on February 25. If necessary, PRAC will meet on February 29 to review the bids. c. EJV_gWth Creek Site Planning LWAte This item will be discussed further at the March meeting. d. 1987 Annual B=t , j"roval. A motion was made by Commissioner Reed and seconded by Commissioner Anderson to approve the 1987 Annual Report as prepared by staff and to forward it to the City Council. The motion carried with all ayes. e. St. Mry's Neighborhood Park iodate. A second meeting notice will be mailed` to area residents informing then of the meeting on February PRAiC Minutes Page 10 February 17 Director Blank indicated, that the first resident meeting had 'bei poorly attended, but those who did crane, liked the preliminary, concept pians presented by Parton-Aachmen. If a concept plan is approved at the meeting on the 17th, it will go to the City Council on March 7 for their apprmal, 6. NEW BUSIRS.S a. g&VjGW Camn-nity Attitude a== Paso ts, Director Blank discussed with the Conmission the results of the comxmity attitude survey, including the special written its made by the consultants conducting the survey. It is the opinion of the consultant that if a c m mitt' center bond is to be successful, a very aggressive campaign will have to be conducted. This year's survey indicated that a slightly higher percentage of residents are in favor of a commity center than two years ago. Director Plank also pointed, out that the park maintenance part of the survey scored higher (92%) then any other portion of City services in terms of resident satisfaction.: b. 1988 Pte_Tbur., A motion was made by Ca missioner Rosen and eeccx, led by Commissioner LaTour to hold this year's park tour in the evening rather than on a weekend. The motion carried with all ayes. Thursday, May 19, was chosen as the date for the, tour, beginning at 5:00 p.m. and including dinner. c. Now Plats. "There were no new plats to discuss. 7. 031MISSICN_PRE SERrATICN None. 8. STAFF OO MMICATIGN Mone. 9. ADJOUiMwEhTf The meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m. Special Meeting of the Park and Recreation Advisory Canmission; Wed mliY, February 17, 1988 Page l Preeent: Cbmmissionera Uft)our, Rosen, Reed, Hanson, Beach; staff Blank Barton- Aso men consultant Barry Warner Abeent Chair E&mrds, C avmissioner, Anderson Following the informational meeting with the residents regarding St.Mary's neighborhood park, the Park and Recreation Advisory commission called their meeting to order at 8:25 p.m. in the council chambers. Commissioner Reed stated that he had heard the citizens say they were very pleased with the overall master plan as presented, with the: one question being, was the proposed ponding area large enough? He had heard settimeit that perhaps making the pond larger would be better. Commissicner Hanson: asked the consultant if he cou d better explain the storm drainage area on the southern one. -third of the park. How much water would actually porn in this area, and for how long? Local residents verified that during big storms, and during the springtime, about a third of this arra would be extremely wet. Commissioner Hanson also asked the consultant what it would roost to use a variety of wild prairie seeds on portions of the park. Consultant Warner from Barton Awhman indicated that it would cost approximately $8,000 to do a four -acre site. Canmissioner Rosen indicated that although the playground equipment was approximately 200 feet from the western park boundary, this wouldstill be the closest area to residential property. He indicated a preference for - moving' the playground equipment to the east if that could be acomplished without any extreme difficulty. Owimissioner Reed agreed with that idea if, again, it could be done without impacting on the wetlands area. Commissioner Hanson asked what the cost of an open-air shelter would be. Tt a consultant indicated he thought it would be approximately $12,000. At this point., the consultant handed out toe preliminary cost estimates on the project. The subtotal for the work as presented was $98,325. with a 10 percent contingency, the total estimated cost is $108,000. Commissioner Rosen stated that the budget was the final factor that they had to work with, and he did not see any area where they could deduct enough to giver the cost of adding a shelter. C.camissioner Reed stated that he didn't think, we should spend $12,000 on a shelter, but maybe consider a covered bench in its place. Coamissioner Beach. asked the group's consensus on the extent of trails in the park plan. Generally, the commission group felt that trails were used by all, segments of the community, it wasthe number 1 requested item in the survey from the neighborhood, and were well liked by the residents in attendance at the meeting. Commissioner Rosen stated he would like to see us try and extend the trail to the south to Ridgemount P1ayfield. r.bis is shown in the master plan. Special PW meeting February 17, 1998: Page 2 A motion was put on the floor by Commissioner Rosen and seconded by Commissioner Hanson, to approve the master plan as shown without a picnic shelter, without parking at this time, and if possible, to move the playground equipment approximately 50 feet east. Commissioner Reed moved ars amendment to include a civered bench in the bid package. This was sent irled by Commissioner Harem. Following discussion centering around the idea that the, covered bench :really would not provide adegvate shade, the anak nent was defeated, five nays. Commissioner Hanson moved an amendment that the master plan: and bids include four 5-6 inch diameter shade trees near the play structure, of the maple, oak, or linden, variety. This was. sPir!C4 ed by Commissioner LaTour. Amendment carried five ayes. The main motion was then roved and passed with five ayes.: Vice Chair LaTbur thanked the members of the audience for attending the two meetings and invited then; to attend the March 7 City Council meeting when this item will be preeented for master plan approval The meeting adjourned at 9 .B p.m.. Minutes of. the Special Meeting of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Monday, Fobruary 29, 1988' Present: Donald: Anderson, Judy LaTour, Barbara Edwards, Rick Rosen, John Reed, Eric Blank Absent: Phyllis. Hanson, Caron Beach Director Blank handed out the bid tabulations for the Parkers Lake Pavilion. He explained the low base bidder on the project and the add alternate bids that were also associated with this project. Based on their review and discussion, Commissioner Rosen moved, seconded by Commissioner heed, that the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission recommend* to the City Council that they award, the base bid to Belair Builders., Inc., in the amount of $305,844 which will include burnished block Walls. Further, that add alternates G_1 large shelter), M-1 (air screens), G-3 (fire place), G-4 (pavers),, E-1 (alarm system), E-7 (air screens-electricity), and E-4 (baseboard heat) also be awardedat this time, and that a contingency of approximately $13,850 remain- on the project. This money could be considered for installation of the small picnic shelter if .it is not needed or.. other items during the construction of the project. Plymouth Creek; Park Harch 100 i986 Plymouth,'Hinnesota Preliminary Concepts B E A Project #87-05 Approximate Program Acres CONCEPT i1 Par Three Golf Course 2$.0 ac. Tennis Area 5.5 ac. Group Picnic Area 6.0 ac. Conservation Area 14.0 ac. Athletic Area 26.0 ac. Prairie Restoration Area: 26.,0 ac. Water Surface Area 16.0 ac; - c. 3030- Education/Wildlife Habitat 49% -- Active Recreation 5% - Passive Recreation 13% - Water CONCEPT 02 Civic; Plaza,Spectator Tennis 4 FieldGames Area 9.0 ac. Group Picnic Area 13.0 ac. Yater Slide Area 5.0 ac. Tennis Area 5.5 ac. Conservation Area 114.0 ac. Athletic Area 26..0 so. Prairie Restoration Area 24.0 ac. Water Surface Area 25.0 so. 33% - Education/Wildlife Habitat 31$ - Active Recreation 16% - Passive Recreation 20% - Water Plymouth Creek Park -2- March 10, 1988 COVCZPT 03 Civic P1aza,Soulpture Garden, Boat Rental & Tennis Area 8.0 ac. Group Picnicking Area 15.5 ac. Water Slide Area 5.0 ac. Indoor S000er Area 6.0 ac. Conservation Area 14.0 ac. Athletic. Area 26.0 ac. Prairie Restoration Area 23.0 a.c Water Surface Area 24.0 ac. 30% Education/Wildlife Habitat 32% Active Recreation 18% - Passive Recreation 2011 Water Surface Additional Acreage Needed for Community Center Concept #1 . . 5.0 ac Concept #2 . . . 1.4 ac. MEMO CITY OF PLYMOUTH 3400 PLYMOUTH BOULEVARD, PLYMOUTH, MINNESOTA 55447 DATE': March 9, 1988 TO: PRAC J Eric Blank Director of Parks and RecreationFROM.:. .. SUBJECT: PLYMOUTH GREEK SOCCER FIELD Att.ached.for your review is. the preliminary engineering report prepared by Dan Campbell of the City's engineering department. Dan has concluded that an artificial turf field would cost approximately $361,000 vs. a natural grass field for about $33,000. To these numbers you have to addapproximately 15,000 for trail realignment work and miscellaneous items. The cost to maintain a soccer field for a year is approximately $8,000 to $10,000 annually. Based' on a cost difference between these two methods of construction of approximately $330,000, the payback over 33 years is difficult, to justify. On a natural grass field we can play approximately 40-60 games per year. The artificial turf field could handle very easily 300-400 games per year. The reality is that without lights on this field, nor the athletic -associations playing extensive weekend schedules, you would not be able to schedule enough games at this site in order to justify the cost for the artificial turf. As the cost of installing artificial turf surfaces decreases in the future, and our maintenance costs increase, this is an area that we must continue to explore for possible renovations of our fields in future years. RECOMMENDATION: Based on the findings of this preliminary cost estimate, I recommend the City proceed with the installation of a natural turf soccer field at Plymouth Creek Park with a budget estimated at approximately $50,000 for the project. The cost for this will come from 218-218 community playfields-park dedication account. This item is .currently proposed in the. 1988 capital improvements budget. EB/np Attachment MEMO CITY OF PLYMOUTH 3400 PLYMOUTH BOULEVARD, PLYMOUTH, MINNESOTA 55447 DATE: March 3, 1488 TO: Erick Blank, Director of Parks and Recreation FROM: Daniel K. Campbell, Senior Engineering Technician SUBJECT: PLYMOUTH CREEK PARK SOCCER FIELD A Preliminary Engineering Report has been prepared dealing with the construction of a natural grass versus artificial turf soccer field at Plymouth Creek Park. My recommendation would be to proceed with. Alternate N^D. l which is the natural grass soccer field installation DKC:kh attachment cc:- Fred G. Moore, Director of Public Works Chester J.. Harrison, Jr., City Engineer REPORT ON THE PROPOSED SOCCER FIELD INSTALLATION AT PLYMOUTH CREEK PARK March 3, 1988' Prepared by City of Plymouth, Engineering Department Daniel K. Campbell Senior Engineering Technician Title Page, Index Conclusions and Recommendations.............................;....:.1 Location............................................... 2 Existing Conditions... .. ..... ............... ... ..2 Project Scope Alternate 1......................................3 Project Scope Alternate 2................ ..... .. .........._._.. 3 i:stimated Costs. ...... .. ..... ................_.4 Figure I. Conclusions and Recommendarions Both alternates outlined in this report are feasible relative to engineering matters. 1. Alternate No. 1 is the least costly of the two options proposed and requires more continuous maintenance. 2 Alternate No. 2 is a relatively maintenance free artificial surface which would be usable from April to October and is least affected by weather conditions. 3. The existing sanitary sewer manhole located in the middle of the proposed playing area should be abandoned and a new structure constructed to the north end and outside of the playing surface 4. Soil testing should be done to determine poor soil conditions. These poor soils could result in differential settlement of the playing surface causing poor drainage and continual resurfacing of the playing field. A recommendation from a soils engineer on sand -soil mixtures for best grass growth. and a favorable low injury surface should be part of the soils report. 1 Location_: The proposed soccer field would: be locateddirectly west of and adjacent to the present soccer field at Plymouth Creek Park (see Figure No 1); Existing Conditionsr The site has an" existing eight inch PVC sanitary sewer line running through it with a manhole structure in the middle of the proposed. playing surface. A portion of the site contains a low lying marshy area which would be filled With on-state excavation material. An existing eight foot wide bituminous trail crosses the center of the site: r Ptgiect SC.?De - Alternate W. 1 This alternate proposes to construct a typical natural grass soccer field by doing the following; 1. Grade the site, creating approximately 4,900 cubic yards of excavation. 2. Provide an exten ion to the existing sprinkler system for irrigation of the playing surface Construct a five inch sand soil layer to create a low injury surface:. 4. Sod, the entire playing surface and deed the remaining,disturbed areas, rojact Scope: - Alternate. 2 This alternate. proposes to construct an artificial grass soccer field by doing the following; 1. Grade the site creating approximately 4,9()0 cubic yards of excavation, 2. Place a layer of geotextile fabric over the subgrade to prevent fine soils from migrating into the drainage pipe system.. Migrating soils would eventually cause the drainage system to fair.. 3, Install a perforated PVC pipe draicage system for vertical drainage through- the artificial turf layer, 4. Place, four inches of crushed. rock to provide a porous but stable base. 5. Install; artificial turf fabric and sand fill,yr layer. 6. Paint permanent playing field lines on surface 3_ 4 Alternate No. 1 COST ESTIMATE Natural Grass Soccer Field Common. Excavation 4,900 C.Y', at 1,251C.Y. _ 6,12.5 Common Bormw 650 C.Y. at 2.001C.Y. _ 1,300 Sand Borrow 650 C.Y. at 6.50/C.Y. _ 4,22.5 Sod 10,000 S.Y. at 1.10/S,Y. 1.1+000 Sprinkler System Lump Sum 9,000 Construct New Sanitary Manhole Lump. Sum 1,500' Total 33,150 Site may need placement of a geotextiie fabric prior to fill placement,. Estimated cost = additional $8,000` Alternate No. 2 — Sporturf _ Artificial Turf System Sporturf Economy System 86,400 S.F. r -c 4.00/S.F, g 345,600 Permanent Painted Field Lines Lump Sum 10,000 Common Excavation 4,900 C.Y. at 1.,25/CY. 6,125 Total 361,725 4 7ix44i.. .fir, - R ~.` ' Irr ! t ( . ` n " ..x `• v x ,^;'+ y' r k`+ 1 ; f vK 1 lib - r t.V 1 '` i , Lei * R rt, ` h i. `'G ., 'Gti t. .lis+ .."' , w it . s.,a M = w ..,,. a t aic4 x .!, i- • , ` C ra+. , \ h' c- ' t , + .. + ,! lk 1 r Ov t` IV x i t / nk A IE, C. <`'`,. , '4 38TH RAVE. .., N, #. +• i • f„ ° _'. r + } fid• ` . +. : r, + n j 12 or Vt ti 70' t s t pp N'aw FIG 1 h a r a. ca _ ,yam .• _ n w ATHLETIC ASSOCIATION ENROLLMENTS Outdoor Sports) 284 Hockey 755 755 Way4ata-Plymouth Soccer 11274 1,274. Plymouth -Wayzata football 315 315 Plymouth -Wayzata Softball 465 465 Plymouth -Wayzata Baseball 625 625 NHPAA Hockey 370 170 Plymouth) NHPAA Sumner Soccer 141 59 Plymouth) NHPAA Fall Soccer 770 388 Plymouth) NHPAA Football 125 56 Plymouth) NHPAA Baseball. Plymouth) Total in all A.A. (using Number of Plym. outdoor facilities) 5,368 res. in A.A. 4,327 5 charger to all Plymouth residterts it' athletic associations using our outdoor facilities would yield $21,635 5 x 4,327). to February 10, 198$ Dear Jerry, It is my understanding the Plymouth council is comtemplating user fees for the Plymouth parks, which I feel would be a mistake for Plymouth; I'm sure ever increasing costs are a concern but the minimal revenues produced would in no way offset the negative Complaints from the residents. In my opinion, singling out a specific group such as the Youth. Sports Organization as special interest groups is dangerous Hopefully, as a taxpayer we pay for a total program. When certain groups are segregated, taxpayers will start to feel they should only be taxed for the services they receive, and the attitude of the community, which is vital to the future: of Plymouth, will be broken.: Alternatives such as volunteer maintenance assistance and the definite needs for such fees, hopefully will be explored extensively. Please accept my thoughts, in the positive spirit in which they are given. My only interest ih continuing the positive atirlosphere between the City of Plymouth and its youth organ izations which I feel; would be jeopordized if user fees were initiated unless only as a last resort. 1t Cordially, GGordyEngel CC: Mr. Erik Blank, Director Parks and Recreation Olt' ANUIX NOUN" FORMER t tttFll 841 h rE ( A RLU 1N, R