HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 10-11-1995CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
October 11, 1995
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Barb Stimson
left 10:00 p.m.), Virginia Black, Christian Preus, Allen
Ribbe, and Linda Oja
MEMBERS ABSENT: Saundra Spigner
STAFF PRESENT: Director Anne Huriburt, Planning Supervisor Barbara
Senness, City Engineer Dan Faulkner, Senior Planner
John Keho, Planner Shawn Drill, and Planning Secretary
Susan Vasquez
1: Call to Order: The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m
2. Public Forum: None,
3. Approval ofAgenda: Commissioner Oja requested, the removal of item 5-A,
Caliber Development Corporation (95102) from the consent agenda,
MOTION by Commissioner Oja to approve the agenda as modified.
VOTE. 6 Ayes. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY,
4. Apnrovol of Ming None.
5. Consefi A n tat
A. Caliber Development Corporation (95102): Removed for discussion.
B, City of Plymouth (95103):
Chairman Stulberg introduced the petition of the City for a lot division,
and subdivision code variance for the property located at 18025 - 12th
Avenue North,
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Preus, to
recommend approval of the petition as detailed in the October 2, 1995
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Staff Report,
VOTE. 6 Ayes. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
6. Staff Reports and 'Public liearitto:
5-A. Caliber Development Corporation (95102) (Moved from Consent
Agenda):
Chairman Stulberg introduced the petition of the Caliber Development
Corporation for site plan approval for the Bass Lake Business Center
located east of Nathan Lane at 55th Avenue North.
Planner Drill gave an overview of the Staff Report of October 3, 1995.
Chairman Stulberg asked ]tow long this area had been zoned as 7-1,
Industrial.
Planner Drill responded that it had been at least ten years, because that
classification had already been assigned to the area when the last
complete update of the Zoning Ordinance took place in the mid -1980's.
Commissioner Oja asked why the petitioner was proposing to build ten
parking spaces more than would normally be required.
Planner Drill noted that a representative of the petitioner would be able
to answer that question. Nevertheless, he observed that builders often
decide to build additional parking spaces if they determine that there is
enough space to meet all the necessary setbacks.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr, John Lavander, representative of
Caliber Development Corporation, Mr. Lavander, referring to the
question posed by Commissioner Oja, responded that his company
preferred building the extra parking spaces because they represent an
added convenience for their clients, and make the facilities more
desirable.
Commissioner Oja inquired whether diose parking spaces would be used
for snow storage during the winter months.
The petitioner replied dial, depending on their location, that could be
feasible.
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Commissioner Oja asked the petitioner whether Caliber would be willing
to waive half of the extra parking spaces and landscape the 5 spaces not
built with wild flowers.
Mr. Lavander responded that his company honestly pr, ferred the ten
extra parking spaces, since they consider, the added space a positive
factor for clients arriving at their building.
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Commissioner Oja asked the petitioner if he would consider planting the
area along the east property line, now planned for seed, with one-half
seed and one-half wild flowers. Mr. Lavander responded affirmatively.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Herring, and introduced Arlene
Edstrom, resident of Cardinal Ridge, 9900 - 55th Avenue North. Ms.
Edstrom said that she Was concerned because this project abuts her back
yard across Nathan Lane, She is worried that her home, and those of
her neighbors, will be disturbed by the smell and <noise of big trucks
circulating on Nathan Lane both day and night. She emphasized that all
traffic will have to circulate on Nathan Lane.
Chairman Stulberg asked Senior Planner Keho to point out the project on
the overhead projector, indicating the flow of traffic, the location of new
projects and the development where Ms. Edstrom lives.
Chairman Stulberg asked the petitioner to clarify the kinds and volume
of traffic he would expect,
Mr. Lavander stated that his developments are designed with
approximately 49% offices, while the remaining 51% could include
warehousing, Truck Traffic will normally consist of lighter-woight
vehicles, .however there wouldbe some large trucks.. To assure; that
neighbors were bothered as little as possible by the flow of truck'traffic,
he plans to limit all truck circulation to the southern of the two entrances
on Nathan Lane, In so doing, he also hopes to encourage truckers to
exit toward the south, rather than passing 'beside the .neighboring
residential area to the north, He further noted that trucking. activities
would occur during business hours and would not be a 24-hour
operation.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public Hearing,
MOTION by Commissioner Stimson, seconded by Commissioner Aja,
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to recommend approval of the petition as detailed in the October 3, 1995
Staff Report.
AMENDMENTTO THE MOTION by Commissioner Oja, seconded by
Commissioner Black, to amend condition 3 of the proposed Resolution
to require the petitioner to landscape all green areas in one-half grass
and one-half wild flowers native to the State of Minnesota.
ROLL CALL VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT, 2 Ayes
Commissioners Oja and Ribbe) and 4 Nays (Chairman Stulberg,
Commissioners Stimson, Black, and Preus),
MOTION FAILED, 2/4.
ROLL CALL VOTE ON THE MAIN MOTION. 6 Ayes, MOTION
CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
6-A. Carlson Real Estate Co. (94014)
Chairman Stulberg introduced Carlson Real Estate's petition to approve
a preliminary plat, conditional use permit, and site plan for Super
America, a fast food restaurant, and a new industrial lot on the southeast
corner of 494 and County Road 6,
Semer runner Keho gave overview of the October 2, 1995 Staff Report,
comparing the petitioner's March 1994 proposal with the current one,
and explaining how objections to old proposal were resolved in the new
one,
Commissioner Preus questioned whether there wa- still a problem with
the property to the west, noting that in the past there had been some
discussion about the possibility of dividing it.
Senior Planner Kelso answered that there is currently no plan to divide
it, and probably the lot will be held as potential future parking for the
tenant on the western lot.
Commissioner Oja, asked what kind of separator there would be between
the entrance and the exit of traffic,
Senior Planner Keho replied that it had not yet been defined,
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Hearing, introducing petitioner
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Brad Lis, of Carlson Real Estate.
Mr. Lis stated that he agreed with the Staff Report, however he
considered that the construction of the recommended trail or sidewalk at
this time would be premature, since it would not connect anywhere. He
stated that is company would be willing to sign an assessment
agreement with the City so that at a later date—when it would connect to
other trails and sidewalks—the builder would pay for its construction.
Mr. Lis said that he was ready to answer any questions that theCommissionersmighthave.
Senior Planner Keho noted that the Parks and Recreation Department
wanted the construction of the sidewalk at this time; bearing in mind that
the availability of a convenience store in the service station would surely
attract some residents from neighboring developments who would walk
to the store. The trail or sidewalk would represent a measure of safetyforthosepedestrians.
Chairman Stolberg introduced Mr. Sam Van Tassel, 1240 West 98th
Street, who is the Property Manager for Superamerica'.
Mr. Van Tassel stated that Superamerica has added a car wash and some
minor design modifications to make the service station more appropriate
for a suburban location. He clarified that the service staticn will have
twelve, rather than six, dispensers on site, since each one is double.
The ones dispensing diesel fuel for trucks will be located on the outside
islands, while the ones dispensing different grades of gasoline for
automobiles will occupy the center island, as a safety measure, He
noted that they are not planning on providing service to many largetrucks, but rather smaller delivery -type vehicles.
Mr. Van Tassel added that he would request the Planning Commission to
reconsider the requirement for an access point on Nathan Lane North,
since he considers that the traffic to be generate by the Superamerica
service station will not be enough to warrant that access,.
Commissioner Oja asked whether the cars stacking at the car wash
entrance would not interfere with delivery vehicles arriving on the same
side of the building.
Mr. Van Tassel stated that weekly deliveries would include two semis
one from the Bloomington warehouse, and the other from a Wisconsin
warehouse), as well as a number of smaller delivery trucks transporting
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soft drinks and snacks.
Commissioner Oia inquired about the size of the trash enclosure, also
located on the same side of the building where cars stack up for the car
wash, and where deliveries are unloaded.
Mr. Van Tassel stated that the garbage enclosure was about 20 ft. wide
by 10 to 12 feet deep.
Commissioner 'Black asked why only ;ornamental trees had been
projected, to the north or the service station why larger trees which might
provide more screening were all projected to the south.
Mr. Van Tassel noted that Superamerica batt no intention of screening
the?ir business from view. Certainly easy visibility is one way in which
they attract curstomers.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Hearing by reading aloud a letter
received from Plymouth resident Leroy and Elizabeth Reinke, 14411
County. Road 6, who objected to the project because they believed it
would increase traffic on County Road 6, which already has excessive
traffic at peak hours. They requested that the Planning Commission
study projected future traffic counts prior to authorizing the project.
They farther inquired why the builder was not being required to observe
the City's new tree preservation ordinance.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Jerry Sisk, of 17015 - 24th Avenue
North.
Mr. Sisk stated that 75 % of traffic for this development is expected to be
generated off the interstate anal other major roadways. Neighbors have
reason to worry that they're going to be bothered by 24-hour noise
generating business. Already an enormous number of competing
businesses are developed within the city. This was supposed to be an
industrial area which is quiet at night, and with that in mind residents
purchased their properties nearby. This project will increase traffic,
noise, etc. The people who are demanding the constrvctior, of this
project, and who will become candidates for the businesses, Bio NOT
reside and work in the area.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Bev Kottas, resident of 2995 Harbor
Lane North,
Ms. Kottas expressed her concern that the service station and restaurant
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are NOT going to provide service for the industrial truck traffic
generated in that area. Ms. Kottas has a service station that is not set up
to attend very large trucks, but she is constantly getting large trucks as
clients. The proposed Superamerica station does not address the need
for attending those large vehicles, many of which are 18 -wheelers. In
her opinion, any new service station that comes into the industrial area
should address that necessity. As for the services to be offered by the
proposed Superamerica station, she is concerned that their consumers are
actually going to come from the highway rather than from the Industrial
area.
Chairman Stulberg closed the Public Hearing. He requested Staff to
address the issue of excessive traffic flow on County Road 6, and the
need for anew traffic study, mentioned in the Reinke's letter.
City Engineer Faulkner replied that the City had already done a traffic
study at the intersection where the Superamerica station would be
located. They determined the level to be B, and note that any level from
A through D is considered acceptable.
Chairman Stulberg asked Senior Planner Keho to address the Reinke's
question about why the new Tree Preservation Ordinance would not be
applied to the Superamerica development.
Planner Keho responded that the preliminary plat of the project was
approved prior to passage of the Tree Preservation Ordinance; therefore,
as specified in the new Ordinance, the City cannot apply it in this case,
He then requested Mr. Van Tassel, of Superamerica, to address the
issue, brought up by both Mr. Sisk and Ms. Kottas, about the anticipated
source of clients for the Superamerica station, Mr. Van Tassel stated
that his marketing studies indicated that only 2% of all Superamerica
customers would come off the interstate, while 98% would come from
the industrial area.
Chairman Stulberg noted that ,Mr. Sisk had questioned whether
underlying zoning should be amended rather than handling the
Superamerica project with a Continual Use Permit. He objected to
the City chang(ing) the zoning and guidance of an Industrial area, at
a whim," To that objection, Senior Planner Keho responded that the
Superamerica project can be approved under the rules- of Conditional
Use Permit (CUP) as long as it is going to service the local industrial
district,
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With regard to Ms. Kottas assertion that any new service station in the
industrial area should be prepared to attend large, trucks, e.g., 18 -
wheelers,' Chairman Smlberg asked the petitioner for his continents.
Mr. Ilan Tassel stated that most large trucking companies have their
own pumps and do not use commercial service stations. Furthermore,
marketing studies indicated that automobile drivers tended to be
intimidated if they found such large trucks in a service station.
Therefore, Superamerica has no intention of encouraging that kind of
clientele. Furthermore, his marketing studies indicated that large.trucks,
as well as through -travellers on long car trips, tend to stop on the
outskirts of the metropolitan areas rather than in the suburbs or in the
cities themselves. In response to the assertion of some of the residents
that the Superamerica is more designed to attend customers who pull off
Highway 494, Mr. Van Tassel noted that the marketing studies he just
cited indicate the contrary. Furthermore, Superamerica's sign, 7-1/2
feet high by 13 feet wide, would not be clearly visible from the
interstate.
As for the petitioner's question regarding the necessity of building a
sidewalk at this point, Director Hurlbutt stated that plans of Parks and
Recreation for future trails which might connect to the sidewalk will be
looked at before this Project is considered at the City Council meeting.
Chairman Stulberg commented that the petitioner had done a good job in
meeting all the ,legal requirements. Therefore, he could see no
justification for denying permission at this time.
MOTION by Commissioner8timson, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe,
to recommend approval of a preliminary plat, conditional use permit,
and site plan for Super America, a fast food :restaurant, and a new
industrial lot on the southeast corner of 494 and County Road 6.
POLL CALL VOTE. 6 Ayes. MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY,
Chairman Smlberg called for a brief break at 8:15 p.m,
The meeting was called back to order at 8:25 p.m.
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6-B. New Home Services Inc. (95004)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the petition from New Home Services,
Inc., for a Land Use Guide Plan Amendment & Residential Planned Unit
Development Concept Plan for Park Woods Residential Development,.
located at 12300 -18th Avenue North, at the Word of Life Church site.
Planner Drill gave overview of the October 2, 1995 Staff Report.
The proposal would involve reguiding of the site to LA -3 (High/Medium
Density Residential), which would permit a density of 2.7 residents per
acre. It is currently guided as LA -1 (Low Density Residential). Staff
favors the proposal, as they did in March 1995.
Chairman Stulberg asked whether the proposed townhouses could be
built on this site even without reguiding.
Planner Drill responded affirmatively.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Mike Gair, of 15050 - 23rd Avenue
North, a representative of New Home Services; Inc. He presented a
graphic representation of the proposed project, emphasizing' that it would
include twin homes rather than three -unit townhouses (a design objected
to by the Planning Commission in March 1995).
He emphasized that the current proposal offers the possibility of much
less tree loss than if a single-family plan were developed exactly like
they are currently developingat Ponderosa, Woods, which lies
immediately east.
Commissioner Oja noted that although the preseNation of frees has been
taken into account by the petitioner, over 1800 caliper inches would' be
lost with the implementation of this project. She asked how the
petitioner could compensate for that loss.
The petitioner stated that a large amount of reforestation, involving
multiple variety planting, would have to be carried out.
Chairman Stulborg opened the Public Hearing, and read into the record a
letter received from Kerry Anderson, 2016 Oakdale ,Lane North, in
which he objects to the proposed development.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Marcy Podkopacz, 1855 Kirkwood Lane
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North. Mrs. Podkopacz stated that about a year agog she had
investigated with City Hall to determine what development was
programmed surrounding Ponderosa Woods. She was shown that the
area was guided as LA -1, single-family low-density residential. At that
time, someone in the Planning Department assured them that the guiding
would continue that way. Now the church is asking fora change.
Mrs. Podkopacz stated that page 3 of the staff report indicates that only
1.6 units per acre would be allowed if it were not rcguided. Therefore,
the comparison to be made is actually 18 townhouses vs. only 10
individual homes. With regard to page. 6, "General statement of
concept"., Mrs. Podkopacz made her own analysis of potential tree loss,
reaching the conclusion that tree loss is much greater than indicated by
the developer. She stated that she considers the developer's proposal
misleading.
Chairman Stulberg noted that the 1.6 units per acre was based on PUD
zoning, and 2.0 units per acre would be allowed for single-family
development under conventional zoning.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Emmett Hume, 1845 Kirkwood Lane
North, who owns the Ponderosa Woods lot abutting directly northeast of
the proposed development, Mr. Hume stated that he would agree
conditionally if there were guarantees that there would be rent controls,
and that the townhomes would occupy the planned sites exactly as
shown.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jerry Podkopacz, 1855Kirkwood' Lane
North. Mr. Podkopacz stated that he had compared the developer's
current proposal with the one presented in March of 1995. The only
substantial difference, he stated, was that the builder had hired a sales
professional who has exaggerated potential benefits and given a very
slick presentation. He indicated that the developer failed to be consistent
in (their choice of colors', on their exhibits, many areas colored green in
the proposed new development are not so colored in Ponderosa Woods.
He found that fact misleading, and therefore recommended that the
Planning Commission reject this proposal.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Blanc Huston, 11880 Red Fox Drive,
Pastor of the Word of Life Church, the entity which is selling the lot for
the proposed development. Mr. Huston believes the current proposal is
acceptable, and has been carefully designed taking into account the
opinions expressed by the neighbors. He therefore asked that the
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Planning Commission approve the proposal. Under no circumstances,
he asserted, has his church, or the developers, been part of any attempt
at diliberate deception or misrepresentation. He added that he and the
neighbors can discuss this matter and clarify any doubts in that regard.
Chairman Stulberg closed the Public Hearing. He then asked Staff if
they had been able to trace down any further information regarding
whether someone from the Planning Department had assured any
residents that the LA -1 guiding would never be changed.
Planning Supervisor Senness statdd that attempts had been made to do
so, but that it was difficult to know who might have responded to the
residents at that time.
Director Hurlburt stated that Planning personnel, better than anyone in
the City, know that planning represents a constantly changing panorama.
Therefore, she considers that Planning personnel would never make such.
an assertion.
Chairman Stulberg mentioned the residents' concern with the tree loss.
Planner Drill stated that the developer had presented the count of caliper
inches, and would address that matter.
The petitioner stated that they had counted approximately 4,800 caliper
inches, of which approximately 2,000 would be lost under the current
proposal.
Regarding the residents who asserted that there had been
misrepresentation in the neighborhood presentation that the developer
had given them on Monday, October 9, the petitioner stated that there
was an error on drawings shown. That error, he stated, was correued
on the depiction shown to the Planning Commission.
Chairman Stulberg presented Mr. Tom Belting, a representative of the
petitioner who organized the October 9, 1995, meeting with local
residents opposed to the development. He assured that there was no
misrepresentation on his part to the residents.
MOTION by Commissioner Stimson, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe;
to approve a land Use Guide Plan Amendment & Residential Planned
Unit Development Concept Plan for Park Woods Residential
Development, located at 12300 -18th Avenue North.
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Commissioner Stimson stated that she feels there is an unfair bias against
townhomes.
Commissioner Ribbe stated that he believed the developer had made a
good effort to put together the best plan possible:
Commissioner Black said that the developer did a good job of addressing
problems in the earlier proposal.
ROLL CALL VOTE. 5 Ayes (Chairman Stulberg, Commisioners
Stinson, Black, Preus, and Rbbe); 1 Nay (Commissioner Oja).
MOTION CARRIED 511.
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Chairman Stulberg declared a brief recess at 10:00 p.m.
8-A Street Design (95657)
Staff proposing not changing right-of-way of 50 feet, but possibly narrowing
some streets.
Alternative A: Narrow pavement to 28 feet from 33 feet. Sidewalks on case-
by-case basis. No parking restrictions. Design contemplates 10foot
driving lane, flexible. Could be posted no parking to widen driving
lanes to 12 feeteach.
Alternative B Much narrower streets, again with sidewalk on case-by-case
basis. Average daily traffic count of 500 or less, (approx, level of
traffic from 50 average dwelling units --equals current standard for cul-
de-sacs). Single -lane parking would be allowed.
Soo Line east and west projects could be sites for applying these new standards.
Serious disagreement on Staff level as to whether sidewalks be required
automatically on certain streets.
Staff recommends alternatives A & B would be added to Engineering standards.
Stulberg notes confliclt between Engineering & CD on sidewalks. He believes
that this can be dealt with since Engineering staff will have in -put in
DRC meetings required to approved any development project.
Stulberg notes conflict between Engineering & CD on parking restrictions on
narrower streets. How could this be resolved?
Hurlburt-this is not a technical issue but a policy issue. Therefore PC can
pronounce an opinion on the matter Without Worrying about having the
technical capacity to dispute the opinion either of Planners or of
Engineers.
TerryLundgren Bros, speaking not about design of SooLine
projects, but as a community planner who likes to keep abreast of the
latest trends in development, even though MN always seems to lag
behind on trends, Many aspects of design are changing and evolving.
The street design issue should have been undertaken a long time ago.
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Very concerned that Staff did not reach a concensus on Uhis'matrPr. Also
consider this proposal to be extremely conservative:, given the cutting-
edge ideas being dealt with elsewhere in the country. Nevertheless, he
supposes that this proposal is so conservative because it is a
compromise. He would have hoped for something bolder coming out of
Plymouth, a city which has shown the ability to present and approve
sweeping changes in other areas of policy.
He recommends the approval.
John Uban, nothing
MOTION Preps, SECOND Oja to approve.
Preus supports idea & recommends continued study of the issue. j
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7. Old Business: None.
8. Adjournment:
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MOTION by Commissioner seconded by
Commissioner _ to clos;: the meeting.
VOTE. 6 Ayes. MOTION CARRIED unanimously,
Meeting adjourned at
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Dear Planning Commission:
I am a resident of Oakview Lane, and will be directly affected by the proposal for townhomes
off of 18th Avenue. I am unable to attend tonight's meeting because of child care, however, 1
was told that this letter would indeed be read to the audience. Please do so.
I feel very strongly about this issue. There are people who have lived on Oakview Zane for
40 plus years. Lately there are constant threats to the. area. The forest has bees chopped up
enough- first Fox Forest,'tfien the beginning of Ponderosa, the continuance of it,. the demoliti
of homes in the park, area.... There, is apparently a threat to chop up Oakview Lane itself. The.
destruction should stop. Why must it be here? Plymouth is turning inta mass of homes ave hUa(M_dhrea4s4otvllI fe
What about.. Plymouth's tree policy? It is chopping. them down a mile a minutell We on Oakv ew LA'
have even petitioned for a-slower speed limit, which no-one will give us, andnow you`want..to
increase traffic even morel! Plymouth (or MNDOT. or whoever) won't even put Up astop light on
the now dangerous exit onto 55. And you want to increase traffic? There are children everywher
andnosidewalks,and. speeding cars as it is. Plymouth neadc to take care of it's own. We move i
here to get away, Found anise place to live- quiet, family street, and it's being buldozed
around us. We're also tired of fighting these constant: threats. Plymouth needs to stay nice.
Lately it is being overdeveloped, the schools. ate busting at the seams... This townhome area
t vas wetland 6 months ago (apx).. and now it can be filled in and,destroyed.;for the cluster plus. two other homesH We have had neighbors move because ofall of !his-stuff. When .will it end?
We are tired of the surprise, changelerode, bulldoze mentalit,"'that Plymouth is becoming.
Obviously, I say NO TOWNHO14ESII
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Thank you for listening,
Kerry Anderson
2016 Oakview La.
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