HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 09-27-1995CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSION AMWTES
September 27, 1995
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Virginia Black,
Christian Preus, Linda Oja and Saundra Spigner
MEMBERS ABSENT: Barb Stimson and Allen Ribbe
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Supervisor Barbara Senness, City Engineer Dan
Faulkner, Senior Planner John Keho„Planning Secretary
Susan Vasquez, and Senior Clerk Typist Ranelle Olson
1. Call to Order. The meeting was called to order at 7:00 p.m.
2. Public Forum: None.
3. Approval ofAgenda: Approved unanimously.
4, AppEmllofMinutes:
X August 23,1995AIinutes:
Chairman Stulberg requested that:
1) Item 6B, %Vuollet & Associates/Minneapolis Laestadian Church be
amended to include reference to the opening and closing of the
Public Hearing.
2) The name of the Councilman attending the August 23 meeting
page 185)be corrected to read Tim Wold.
Commissioner Preus requested that:
1) A typing error in the page header be corrected.
2) Item 7-13, "Street Design”, be amended to indicate that
CommissionerPreus lived six months in Adelaide, Australia
MOTION by Commissioner Black, seconded by Commissioner Spigner,
to approve the minutes of August23, 1995, as amended.
VOTE. 5 Ayes. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
a
Planning Commission Minutes
September27,1995
Page 197
B. September 13, 1995 Minutes:
Chairman Stulberg requested that item 6-B be amended to include
reference to the opening and closing of the Public Hearing following the
intervention of the representative of the Petitioner.
MOTION by Commissioner Black, seconded by Commissioner Spigner,
to approve the minutes of August 23, 1995, as amended.
VOTE. 4 Ayes (Chairman Stulberg, Commissioners Preus, !Spigner, and
Oja);,I Abstention (Commissioner Black). MOTION CARRIED 4/0 with
one abstention.
5. Consent Agenda: None.
6; Staff Reports and Public Hearine:
Chairman Stulberg stated that although the agenda showed two items for public
hearing, Staff had requested that item 6-13, "Carlson Real Estate Company"
94014), be tabled. He requested Planning Supervisor Setmess to explain -the
reasons for that request.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that Carlson Real Estate Company had
modified its original petition and would now require a variance which must be
notified to neighboring property owners.
Chairman Stulberg requested that a letter dated September 26, 1995, from Mn
Leroy Reinke, 14411 County Road 6 be entered in the record, and considered
whenever item 6-B is considered by the Commission.
MOTION by Commissioner Spigner, seconded by Commissioner Black, to table
item 6-13 until the October 11, 1995 meeting as requested by Staff.
ROLL CALL VOTE. 5 Ayes. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
A. HINDER CARE (95088):
Chairman Stulberg presented the petition of Kinder Care for a PUD
Preliminary Plan/Final Plan and Conditional Use Permit to build'a child
care center on Plymouth Boulevard between 37th Avenue and Rockford.
Road.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 27,.1995
Page 198
Senior Planner Keho gave an overview ofthe Staff report. He emphasized
that Staffs recommendation to eliminate the fence around the NURP pond
was motivated both by the fact that the City has an explicit policy against
fencing NURP ponds, and by the belief that a fence would bean attractive
nuisance. It might represent too much of a temptation to children to climb
over it.
Staff, according to Senior Planner Keho, considers the key issues relating
to this project to be those of drainage and water treatment. He stated that
the Kinder Care NURP pond was designed to be built on the small wetland
in the northeast comer of the property. Staffs concern is for how the
project would impact owners of adjacent properties due the new
requirements for water quality ponds.
Staff, therefore, requested that the petition be tabled to allow for further
study of the potential impact of this project on adjacent properties, and on
the Downtown Plymouth plan as a whole.
Commissioner Preus asked if the Wetland Conservation Act (WCA) would
apply to the small wetland on this property.
City Engineer Faulkner statedthat the Engineering Department had
studied the small wetland in question, and would support the petitioner's
request for an exemption from the WCA so that they would notbe required
to preserve it.
Commissioner Preus asked Senior Planner Keho to identify the location of
the fence mentioned in the Staff Report.
Senior Planner Keho complied, indicating that the fence would surround
the NURP pond on the opposite side of the building from the children's
playground. He noted that Staff concurred with the part of the fence which
would surround the children's playground, but that the City has a policy
that NURP ponds not be fenced.
Chairman Stulberg introduced the petitioner, Ted Mattke, President of
Mattke Engineering.
Ivlr. Mattke stated that he is willing to eliminate the fence around the
NURP pond from his project, with theconcurrenceof Kinder Care.
Therefore, that matter is no longer an issue,
a
Planning Commission Minutes
September 27, 1995
Page 199
Mr. Matt se continued, asserting that he disagrees when Staff states that the
great picture of downtown Plymouth needs to be studied further. That was
not required, he noted, when the City recently approved the State Farm
project on the same block as the Kinder Care lot. Furthermore, Amoco
and King Video Cable already exist on that block, so he questioned why
the Kinder Care project should not be approved.
The petitioner illustrated on an overhead transparency the location of the
other properties he had mentioned, as well as an existing road, and existing
drainage for those lots, consisting of catch basin about 8 feet below the
level of the State Farm lot. Other lots on this block, he stated, also drain
toward the northwest catch basin.
In order to get Kinder Care's lot to drain that way, landfill, excavation, and
probably the installation of underground pipes would be required; that
could cost over $200,000.
Mr. Mattke stated that the Kinder Care project has a viable drainage
scheme without that enormous expenditure. The project, he said, is ready
to be approved now, and there is no reason to wait. As for the adjacent
lots, he recommended that the NURP pond on State Farm's lot be
expanded and shared with the developers of the neighboring lot. Given
that solutions for the drainage problem for the Kinder Care project, as well
as for State Farm and their neighboring developer on the west, drainage
had also become anon -issue. Therefore, he questioned why the Kinder
Care project could not be determined immediately.
Commissioner Ficus inquired whether the petitioner had considered the
possibility of further enlarging the State Farm NURP pond, so that Kinder
Care and the developer to the west of State Farm could both share it with
that firm.
Mr. Mattke explained that such an alternative was not feasible given the
differences of elevations and grading of the lots, as well as the lack of
depth of State Farm's NURP pond. Kinder Care would have to spend over
200,000 to put in all the pipe necessary to drain that way, plus the cost of
deepening the IRR pond.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Greg Eswine, Real Estate Director for
Kinder Care Leaching Centers, Inc., based in Atlanta, Georgia.
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Planning Commission Minutes
September27, 1995
Page 200
Mr. Eswine stated that he felt the Kinder Care project is compatible with
the City's requirements. He explained that Kinder Care has a fairly tight
time table for construction. If the new facility cannot open by a given
date, they could lose a whole year.
Chairman Stulberg asked Senior Planner Keho to give a date by which the
Kinder Care project could again be presented to the Planning Commission.
Senior Planner Keho replied that the City was within its rights to extend
the review up to 120 days, until December of this year. However, he
addeded that the Planning Staff would very likely be able to bring back a
recommendation before that date.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Hearing, He requested that a letter
dated September 25, 1995, received from Mr. Patrick J. Smith, 15600 -
40th Avenue North, be entered in the record. In that letter, Mr. Smith
expressed his worry that the Kinder Care facility would aggravate an
already serious traftie problem at rush hour because of parents leaving and
picking up their children.
Mr. Gray Greiner, Construction Manager for Kinder Care based in Atlanta,
requested to speak. He stated that Kinder Care would require 60 days to
permit the building, 120 days to carry out the actual construction, and
about 60 days more to license «Ite facility for operation. Kinder Care's
goal, he noted, is to have the Plymouth facility in operation before August
of 1996, which is when most parents are selecting their child care facility
for the year. If they were unable to open at thattime, Kinder Care would
probably have to wait several months more so that their opening would
coincide with a new phase when parents are again, selecting daycare
facilities.
Chairman Stulberg requested the Commissioners to state their pleasure:
table the item, or make a decision now.
Commissioner Black noted her concern for the>petitionces time table,
however she indicated her reluctance to make a hasty decision which
might affect the overall Downtown Plymouth plan.
Chairman Stulberg asked the representatives of Kinder Care how it would
I mpact on their plans if a decision were not reached by the Planning
Commission until October 25i 1995.
2
Planning Commission Minutes
September 27 1995.
Page 201
Mr. Greiner stated that if a decision were reached by that date, he was
confident that Kinder Care would still be able to finish the Plymouth
facility by August of 1996.
Chairman Stulberg noted that he had not closed the Public Hearing, and
would not do so at this time, to permit public participation if the
Commission tabled the item until a later date.
MOTION, by Chairman Stulberg, SECONDED by Commissioner Black.
to table this petition until the October 25, 1995, Planning Commission
meeting.
ROLL CALL VOTE. 5 Ayes.
MOTION CARRIEDUNANIMOUSLY.
Commissioner Preus commented that he was not ,yet convinced that the
fence around the MRP pond should be eliminated. It might actually
represent an additional safety measure for the children of the
neighborhood.
Planning Supervisor Senness commented that the Planning Commission
might want to consider other options that might be less of an attractive
nuisance, for example, a dense hedge.
7. New Business:
Senior Planner Keho noted that there would be one or two brief public hearings in
the next meeting, as well as the first work session with Zoning Ordinance
consultants, and possibly some information on the matter of street design.
8. Old Business: None.
9. Ajjournment:
MOTION by Commissioner Preus, seconded by Commissioner Black, to adjourn.
VOTE. 5 Ayes, MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Meeting was adjourned at 7:40 p.m,
0
fanning Commission city of Plymouth
3400 Plymouth Blvd.
Plymouth Mn. SS447
09/26/95
Dear Commissioners
I am sorry but I. will not be able to attend the meeting in
person as I will be out of town.
I am writing. in regard to the property on the southeast corner
of the intersection or, County Road 6,and.I-494. According to
Shawn Drill this project is called the Super America, McDonald.
project..
Iunderstand that there is going to be a traffic Fight. put in
at .Annapolis Lane and a driveway made to the proposed project
from there. I think that the traffic is too heavy fora traffic
light. every block. According to Bob Johnson from the city ofPlymouththereare11,000 cars per day that use .County Road 6.
onthe east side of I-49fl. That was thecount in. 1993 and I am
sure that is much more now. The problem is that the traffic
won't moveenough. and the cars will black theintersection and
nobody moves from either side.
I am sure that the traffic will increase on the west side of I -
49Y as well because of people going to these business. With the
Super America station being open 24 hours a day it will increase
the late night traffic much more. This will also increase the
traffic noise in the late night hours. It sure Would be nice to
get a good nights sleep without the extra noise. I don't think
the people in the neighborhoodneed to have to put up with
extra noise 24 hours a day; it should be left industrial as it is
now. There is also the item of increased traffic on County Road
6. According to Bob Johnson of the city of Plymouth there were
13,000 cars per day in 1993 and I any sure more now.. It is
already very hard to get out of my driveway in the morning,
What will it be like in the Future? I would like to know what kind
of traffic count they expect in the Future,
I believe you need to think of the increase in crime From these
types of businesses. I am sure they will tell you that they
have no problems now with any location in Plymouth or in the
area around here. But all you need to do is look at what is
going in Minneapolis now to see what the future is going to be
like, What happens in tho inter city will come to the suburbs
some time in the Future, Will the taxes brought in by these
business pay For the extra police that will be needed in the
Future? I believe not.
According to Shawn Drill the amount of trees that will be saved
is going by the old ordinance. I think.that the new Ordinance
should be used as this project is still in the planning stages
and changes can be made at this time. The trees thatstdy - standing will help keep down the noise from the road and the
businesses.We make other peoplekeep trees.; I believe all .the
trees should stay standing. Ihey are mostly mature trees thattakemanyyearstogrow. I
i
I understand that the parking from Carlson Company will be
around the south side of these buildings.I hope that gouwon'treducetheamountofparkingfortheCarlsonCompang._I haveseenthelotquiteFullOFcars.
I believe it is real hard to Justifg another gas station When
there is one on Caunty Road H and 1-494, Highway SS and
Fernbrook, Highwag SS and South Shore Drive, Mr Gas an Highway55andalso. County Road 6 and Highway 101. I believe it even
harder to justify more eating places as there areplaces anCarlsonParkwag, Highway '55 and ,County Road S. The problem asIseeitiswithtoomany, gas stations or eating places, none do
well and soon they come and complain that they can't make itandwanttochangethewaytheydobusinessorthetypeofbusinesstheydo.
Your Truly
Ler Reinke
14411 County Road 6
Plymouth Mn, SS447
9/25/95
Barbara Senness
Plymouth Development Department
3400 Plymouth Blvd
Plymouth, MN 55447
Dear Ms Senness:
988
Regarding the proposed addition of a Kindercare facility on Rockford road, I have a
concern regarding the increased traffic. My concern is that Rockford road west bound
traffic wanting to enter the Kindercare facility cannot tum left because of the divided road.
Drivers may be forced to use the Vicksburg intersection as a tum around to come back
from the west and enter the facility. Since most ofthe traffic will occur in the morning
and evening rush hours it will intensify the already burdened intersection.
I live in Plymouth Creek and on my morning walks observe the rush of parents on 41st
hurrying to deliver their children to Plymouth Creek School day care and classes.
Currently most drivers do not observe the 25 MPH flasher warning on Vicksburg. I
would expect that the same will prevail at the Rockford road/Vicksburg intersection
Sincerely,
d ,
Patrick J Smith
15600 40th Ave N
Plymouth, MN: 55446
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9/25/95
Barbara Senness
Plymouth Development Department
3400 Plymouth Blvd
Plymouth, MN 55447
Dear Ms Senness:
Regarding the proposed addition of a Kindercare facility on Rockford road, I have a
concern regarding the increased traffic. My concern is that Rockford road west bound
traffic wanting to enter the Kindercare facility cannot tum left because of the divided road.
Drivers may be forced to use the Vicksburg intersection as a tum around to come back
from the west anal enter the facility. Since most of the traffic will occur in the morning
and evening rush hours it will intensify the already burdened intersection.
I live in Plymouth Creek and on my morning walks observe the rush of parents on 41st
hurrying to deliver their children to Plymouth Creek School day care and classes.
Currently most drivers do not observe the 25 MPH flasherwaming on Vicksburg. I
would expect that the same will prevail at the Rockford road/Vicksburg intersection.
Sincerely,
r
Patrick J Smith
15600 40th Ave N
Plymouth, MN. 55446
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fanning Commission city of Plymouth
3400 Plymouth Blvd.
Plymouth Mn. 55447
09/26/95
Dear Commissioners
I.am sorry but I will not be able to attend the Meeting inpersonasI.will be out of town.
I am writing in regard to the property, on the southeast corner
OF .the intersection on County Road 6 and I-494.. According to. Shawn Drill this project is called. the Super America, McDonald
project.
I understand that there is going to be a traffic light put in
at Annapolis Lane and a driveway made to the proposed project
From there..I think that the . traffic is too heavy. for atraffic
light every block.. According to .Bob Johnson from the city OF
Plymouth there are 11,000 cars per day that use County Road 6
on the east side OF I-494. Ihat was the count in 1993 and I am
sure that is much more now.. The problem is that the traffic
won't move enough and the cars will block the intersection and.
nobody moves :From either side.
I am sure that the traffic will. increase on the West side OF I-
Y94 as well because of people going to these business. With the
Super America station being open 2`i hours a day, it will increase
the late night traffic much more. This will also increase the
traffic noise in the late night hours. Itsure would be nice to
get a good nights sleep without the extra noise. I.don't think
the people in the neighborhood need to have to put up with
extra noise Eq hours a day; it should be left industrial, as itis.
now. There is also the item of increased traffic on County, Road
6. According to Bob Johnson OF the citg of Plymouth there were
13,000 cars per .day. in 1993 and I any sure more now. It is
already very hard to get out of my driveway in the morning, What will it be like in the future? I would like to know what kind
OF traffic count they expect in the future.
1 believe you need to think of the increase in crime From these
types of businesses, I am sure they will tell you that thoy
have: no Problems now with any location in Plymouth or In the
area around here. But all you need to do is look at what is
going in Minneapolis now to see what the future is going to be
like. What happens in the inter city will come to the suburbs
some time in the future, Will the taxes brought in by: thesebusinesspayFortheextrapolicethatwillbeneededinthe
future? Ibelieve not,
0
According to Shawn Drill the amount of trees that will be saved
Is going bg the old ordinance I think that the new ordinance
should be used as this project is still in the planning stages
and changes canbe made at this time, The trees that stagstandingwillhelpkeepdownthenoiseFromtheroadandthebusinesses.We make other people keep trees; I believe all thetreesshouldstaystanding. Ilrag are mostly mature trees thattakemanyyearstogrow.
Iunderstand that the parking From Carlson Company will be
around the south side of these buildings, I hope that you won'treducetheamountofparkingforthe. Carlson Company.. 'I haveseenthelotquiteFullOFoars:.
Ibelieve it isreal hard to JustiFyanother gas station whenthereisoneonCounty .Road S and I-qSq Highway 55 and
Fernbrook, .Highway 55 and South Shore Drlve, Mr Gas an Highway55andalsoCountgRoad ,6 and Highway 101. l believe it evenhardertojustiFymoreeating. places as there are .places onCarlsonParkway, Highway 55 and County Road S. The problem asIseeitwithtoomany ,gas stations or eating places, none dow+tll and soon they come and complain thatthey: can't make it
and want to changes the .way they do business or the type orbusinesstheydo.
Your Truly
fePf
Lar Reinke
lqY11 County Road 6
Plymouth Mn, 554'{.7
0 0