HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 11-29-1994CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMNIISSIONMINUTES
NOVEMBER 29,1994
The regular meeting of the Plymouth Planning Commission was called to order at 7:00
p.m. by Chairman Mike Stulberg.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Barb Stimson,
Ed Albro,Christian Preus (arrived a 7:05 p.m.). Virginia
Black, Linda Oja and Allen Ribbe.
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Director Anne Hurlbutt, Planning Supervisor Barbara
Senness, Associate Vinner John Beho, and Planning
Secretary Jackie Watson
MOTION by Commissioner Stimson, seconded by Commissioner Albroto approve the
November 2, 1994 Planning Commission Minutes.
Vote 6 Ayes. Motion carried.
CONSENT AGENDA
WELSH COMPANIES (94130) l
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Black, to recommend i
approval of the request by Welsh Companies for a Site Plan and Variances for 17
additional parking spaces for property located at 10700 State Highway 55
Vote. b Ayes. Motion carried.
PUBLIC' HEARINGS
CORVETTE'S UNLIMITED (94132)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by'Corvettr's Unlimited for a Conditional
Use Permit for the sale of automobiles in the Industrial District located at 14070 23rd
Avenue North.
Planning Intern Jared Andrews reviewed the November 21, 1994 staff report.
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Chairman Stolberg introduced Mr. Walt Stannard representing the petitioner.
Mr. Stannard stated that he agreed with the staff report.
Commissioner Cja asked if he was currently located on the site.
Mr. Stannard stated that they are currently on the site, do conversions, and need to
have a State license.
Chairman Stulberg asked if they did any advertising, or if they will they do any.
Mr. Stannard said that they do the conversions, another company does the advertising,
and that there is advertising in the yellow pages.
Commissioner Albro asked if they purchase the vehicles.
Mr. Stannard stated that the vehicles aro purchased for a customer, converted and
shipped to them.
Chairman Stulbetg opened and closed the Public Hearing as no one was present to
speak on the request.
MOITON by Commissioner Stimson, seconded by CommissionerOja to recommend
approval of the inquest by Corvette's Unlimited for a Conditional Use Permit for the
sale of automobiles in the I-1 District at 14070 23rd Avenue North, subject to the
conditions listed in the November 21, 1994 staff report.
MOITON to Amend by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe to add
a condition to limit the number of sales to 12 per year.
Director Hurlburt stated that this condition would be impossible to monitor.
Roll Call Vote. 3 Ayes, Commissioners Stimson, Black, Oja and Preus voted Nay.
Motion failed; nn a 3 to 4 vote.
Commissioner Oja stated she did not see the need for a Conditional Use Permit as no
outside storage is allowed.
Chairman Stolberg and Commissioner Albro both stated that they did not feel this
request supported the needs of the I-1 District.
Director Hurlburt stated that this is the type of business which would locate in the
Industrial District, and the ordinance is subject to interpretation.
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Page 248.
Commissioner Stimson stated that she felt it was a benefit to keep space occupied in the
Industrial District.
Commissioner Oja stated that she felt it was important to keep people employed in the
district.
Commissioner Albro stated that he did not think this request met the definition of tying
essential to the district and be wanted to limit the number of car sales so it does not
become a major automobile sales site.
Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes, Commissioner Albro and Chairman Stulberg voted Nay.
Motion carried on a 5 to 2 vote.
CHURCH OF ST. MARY OF THE LAKE (94142)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by St. Mary of the Lake Church for a
Conditional Use Permit for a Montessori School at 105 Forestview Lane.
Planning Intent Andrews reviewed the November 22, 1994 staff report.
Chairman Stulberg asked if the 1992 Conditional Use Permit was in another name.
Planning Intern Andrews stated that the previous request was for a daycare: center.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Barbara Fallstad, representing the petitioner.
Ms. Fallstad and Ms. Preethi Nugawila both stated they •werem.. agreement with the
staff report. _
Chairman Stulberg opened and closed the Public Hearing as there was no one present to
speak on the request.
Commissioner Oja asked if there would be an outside play area at the location.
Ms. Fallstad stated that there is an outside fenced play area which has been there for
yam.
MOTION by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Black to recommend
approval of the request by St. Mary of the Lake Church for a Conditional Use Permit
fora Montessori School at 105 Forestview Lane Notch, subject to the conditions listed
in the November 22, 1994 staff report.
Roll call vote. 7 Ayes. Motion carried on a unanimous vote.
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November 29,1994
Page 249
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT RELATING TO ELECTRONIC
MESSAGE SIGNS (94114)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the discussion by the City of Plymouth for a proposed
Zoning Ordinance .Amendment relating to Electronic Message Signs.
Associate Planner Keho reviewed the November 23, 1994 staff report.
Commissioner Preus asked why aesthetics would be detrimental because of the small
size of sign.
Associate Planner Keho stated that staff felt all electronic signs were detrimental.
Commissioner Preus stated that a Conditional Use Pemritwould be additional work for
staff and asked if this request were approved, would the City be deluged with additional
requests.
Associate Planner Keho stated it could be additional work but it would give the City
some control over the use. f
Commissioner Albro asked if a Conditional Use Permit would be needed if the sign
were to be inside the building. {
Director Hurlburt stated that typically a sign inside a window would not need a sign
permit.
Associate Planner Keho explained the size of 14 square feet as being 15" by 84".
Chairman Stulburg opened the Public Hearing k
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Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Jack Lawrence of Signcmfters.
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Mr. Lawrence stated this is a new type of computer tebhnology known as a silent radio.
He said the signs are used to inform customers waiting in the drive up line, with such
items as specials, news from CNN, and the weather. He said these signs are similar to
the Sign at the customer service counter in Plymouth City Hall. He said electronic
signs are; being used on the highways to advise motorists of upcoming traffic hazards
ahead and have not been found to be detrimental. The sign for Arby's will be j
technically to warm up customers.
Comrnissinner Ribbe asked where exactly would the sign be located.
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Mr. Lawrence described the location which would be four cars back from the order
box.
Chairman Stulberg asked if this was approved, would Arby's have to come before the
Commission with a Conditional Use Permit and would this only be a change in the
Zoning Ordinance.
DirectorHurlbuit replied,that Arby's would have to come back to the Planning
Commission for a Public Hearing for a Conditional Use Permit.
Commissioner Preus asked if this use would become more widespread.
Mr. Lawrence stated that it is becoming more widespread, especially by auto dealers
and airports. He said the sign on I-394 advises of accidents ahead; the Arby's sign
would not detract from highway 55. There would have to be reasons for others to
apply for this type of sign permit.
Commissioner Preus asked if there would be any problem with having to apply for a
Conditional Use Permit.
Mr. Lawrence stated that was not a problem.
Commissioner Oja asked that Arby's has a special sign up on the menu; what would be
the difference on the electronic sign. How many cars could read the sign.
Mr. Lawrence stated that the signs now used are for coupon specials. The electronic
sign would contain additional information on other new menu items. He said the menu
boards are overloaded and they hope to improve the quality of their sales. He said the
3rd to the-Sth car would be able to read the electronie, board.
Chairman Stulberg closed the Public Hearing.
Commissioner Oja stated this sign is only for outside, if it was for inside they would
not need a Conditional Use Permit.
Chairman Stulberg stated that a business along Highway 55 did have such a sign in
their window and the City did take action to eliminate the sign.
Director Hdrlburt stated that there are some limitations on signs, but they are not
specifically discussed when behind a window,
MOTION by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Preus to recommend
approval of the Amendment to the Zoning Ordinance relating to electronic message
signs.
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Page 251
Chairman Stulberg stated he believed this is new technology for signage and is a
limited enough use to not need a Conditional Use Permit. He said the language itself
limits where the use would be allowed.
MOTION to Amend by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Preus to
remove the wording pertaining to "upon approval of a Conditional Use Permit".
Roll Call Vote. 4 Ayes, Commissioners Black, Albro and Oja voted Nay. Motion
carried on a 4 to 3 vote.
Commissioner Albro stated he opposes this request because of the precedent of the
conservative nature of the City. He said there would be no benefit to the overall
population of the City.
Commissioner Ribbe stated that the language for the changes is restrictive enough to
not requite a Conditional Use Permit.
Chairman Stulberg stated that this request would allow Arby's and other restaurants to
disseminate more information because the menus have become so large and it could
eliminate larger outdoor signs.
Commissioner Albro stated that the Zoning Ordinance does set limitations as to the
number of signs a business can have.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion. 4 Ayes; Commissioners Black, Albro and Oja voted
Nay. Motion carried on a 4 to 3 vote.
Chairman Stulberg called a recess at 8:05 p.m.; the meeting reconvened at 8:15 p.m.
DRAFT ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT REGARDING WETLANDS
94072)
Planning Supervisor Senness reviewed the progress of the proposed draft ordinance,
Notice has been published for the Public Hearing to be held on December14, 1994.
She discussed portions of the draft ordinance.
Commissioner Albro asked if the mitigation of wetlands on page 6-41 would be further
defined,
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that this is the current practice.
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Planning Supervisor Senness discussed the tables in the draft ordinance. She discussed
the construction period and Extraordinary Management Measures.
Commissioner Ribbe asked for an explanation ofpage 6-47, line12 which refers to
Section 11 of the Zoning Ordinance.
Planning Supervisor Senness explained the Site Improvement Performance Agreements.
Commissioner Ribbe asked who defines whether there are Extraordinary Maragement
Practices.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated the burden of -proof would be on staff and on the
Planning Commission.
Commissioner Black asked how this would be paid for and how much time would be
spent on enforcement.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the City will have additional staff to enforce
these issues.
Director Hurlburt stated that a consultant could be hired for expanded enforcement
which would be paid for by the developer. She said each case will be different.
Commissioner Albro stated that this draft is a big step in the right direction. He asked
for an explanation on page 45, lines 18-21.
Planning Supervisor Senness explained that to put in a read the wetland would have to
be further disturbed if there was a buffer.
Director Hurlburtadded that where it is not desirable to additionally alter the wetland,
a buffer would not be required.
Mr. Shardlow explained the wording.
Commissioner Ribbe stated that he would like to commend staff and the consultants for
the very workable draft ordinance.
Commissioner Preus asked for explanation of page 6-51 regarding Variance
standards in Section 11.
Planning Supervisor Senness explained this portion of the Zoning Ordinance,
Mr. Ron Peterson discussed his conversations with Dr. Steven Woodard. He discussed
Extraordinary Management Measures. He suggested that on page 6-46, line S to add
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background levels if the upslope has been established" in areas where mads and
parking area runoff aill.oe going to treatment ponds. He suggested deleting lines 17
through 20 on both tables as suggested by Dr. Woodard.
W. Peterson stated that Dr. Woodard is the author of the study they have relied on.
He discussed his conversations with Dr. Woodard and said he should have some written
comments covering the conversations within the week.
Commissioner Stimson asked why there is a minimum and maximum listed for buffers.
Mr. Peterson stated that this was so the City could not require more than the
maximum.
Commissioner Albro said be thought this would keep someone from skewing the
dimensions.
Chairman Stulberg asked if to get to the average, the maximum would be used to figure
this.
Director Hurlbutt stated that some language should be added to clarify the intent.
Mr. Peterson discussed the'functionand value methods used.
Chairman Stu'berg stated that the Commission needs to let Mr. Peterson know if they
want the ratings changed.
Mr. Shardlow discussed the table and acres within buffer areas by guide plan
classification. He displayed the'map showing the land affected by the ordinance.
M. Sharlow suggested alternative language on page 6-46 for the word "maximum"—
buffers in excess of the maximum will be encouraged but not used as an alternative.
Commissioner Black asked about the 15 foot rear yard setback. She said that there is
not enough room in some backyards where children can play.
Planning Supervisor Senness explained there are some sites where there is no setback
so that 15 feet seemed reasonable. This does not prevent larger setbacks as some
people do not want large back yards.
Commissioner Preus asked where all the language has come from.
Director Hu[Iburt stated that this has been around since the discussion began.
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Mr. Shardlow stated some of the language is from the Wetlands Conservation Act and
the Chanhassen document.
Commissioner Stimson questioned the word provide on page 6-42, line 13.
Mr. Shardlow responded that to implement the ordinance you are providing the Zoning
Ordinance.
Commissioner Stimson questioned page 6.45, line 15 regarding maintaining the buffer
strips; who will maintain the strips.
Mr. Shardlow stated that this gets into zoning enforcement and that recourse would
probably be on a complaint basis.
Chairman Stulberg stated that if a buffer changes naturally there is nothing that can be
done.
Commissioner Albro asked if there are conflicts in the current ordinance and this
document such as height of grass.
Mr. Shardlow stated there are some nuisance ordinances which may have to be
changed.
Commissioner Albro asked if there would be some type of disclosure for new buyers to
make them aware of the restrictions.
Director Hurlburt stated we will need to check for conflicts between the codes.
Mr. Shardlow stated that we should add some clarification to line 15, page 6-45.:
Commissioner Stimson stated we also needed some clarification on page 6-49.
Phuudng Supervisor Senness stated that we will have to provide the public information
and encourage developers to distribute information to home buyers.
Chairman Stulberg stated we should look into covenants.
Commissioner Black stated that we should add language to the findings and intent of
the ordinance to inform the public.
Director Hurlburt stated this is on page 6-43.
Commissioner Albro stated he wanted information on covenants.
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Commissioner Stimson stated that people don't read covenants; that it would be better
to do some public information items.
Commissioner Albro asked about the exempted wetlands by the WCA on 6-45, lines 18
to 21.
Mr. Shardlow stated that the restrictions are already in placeforroadways.
Commissioner Albro asked why driveways and trails were included. It looks like a
loophole.
Mr. Shardlow responded that driveways are needed for park buildings.
Director Hurlburt suggested that the interpretations for trails, park driveways, and
roadways could be separated and driveways could be removed.
Commissioner Albm asked about line 22 on page 6-45; what determines an engineered
buffer.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated this is explained in later pages.
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Commissioner Black questioned line 23, page 6.45 the word "applicants".
Director Hurlburt stated that the word should be "applicable" and this should be added
before the word maximum.
Commissioner Black stated that Extraordinary Management Measure should not be able
to be used on slopes over 12 percent.
Commissioner Albro stated that sites undar 1 acre with exceptional and high quality
wetlands should have NURP ponds and this should be in the ordinance.
Director Hurlburt stated that there should be exceptions.
Mr. Shardlow stated that this ordinance does not address'NURP ponds; we need to look
at the Surface Water Management Plan for this information. He said Dr. Woodard
recommends deleting lines 17-20 on page 646 if there is agreement.
Mr, Shardlow and Director Hurlburt stated that this does not belong as a part of this
ordinance. -
The consensus of the Planning Commission was to remove lines 17-20 on pages 6-46
and 6-48.
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Commissioner Black stated this ordinance is not clear and easy to administer. She said
that Section 8 allows flexibility and Section 6 is not necessary for Exceptional
Wna¢ement Measures.
Commissioner Stimson stated she felt the developers were asking for this flexibility.
Chairman Stulberg said this is what we would want developers to strive for.. This is
more than required.
Commissioner Black stated that the concerns of residents have not been addressed as far"
as wildlife habitat and open space in Section 6:
Chairman Stulberg stated we are primarily looking at water quality.
Commissioner Black stated that there have been compromises on many of the original
objectives.
Director Hudbuit stated that open space cannot be regulated by an ordinance.
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Commissioner Preus stated he liked Section 6 which could improve water quality, but
he was concerned about the administrative work involved.
Planning Supervisor Senness,stated ,that staff felt comfortable that it could be
administered.
Commissioner Ribbe stated he felt this was one of the finest' improvements in the
ordinance. Commissioners Albro, Oja and Chairman Stulberg agreed.
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Commissioner Preus noted the small setback for Low Quality wetlands on page 6A6.
Mr. Shardlow stated that Low Quality wetlands provide no habitat and are only for
water quality. He said they could adjust and refine the 15 foot Low Quality setbacks.
Commissioner Black stated that siltation fences need to be enforced in the community
and this is not being done.
Commissioner Albro stated that thete needs to be the addition of wording for
enforcement, the need for preventative measures, and the need to be proactive.
Mr. Peterson stated that there would be expanded enforcement for Extraordinary
Management Measures in the language.
Mr. Shardlow stated that approval for Section 6has to come before the Planning
Commission for approval and the language should be sufficient.
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Discussion ensued on enforcement.
Commissioner Albru stated he wanted wider setbacks where there is no buffer (wider
than 15 feet);
Commissioner Black, Preus and Oja agreed.
The consensus of the Commission was to wait until the public speaks at the Public
Hearing.
Commissioner Aibro asked what is required for mitigation
Mr. Peterson stated that there are WCA rules that apply to mitigation and these are
judged on a case-by-case basis.
Planning Supervisor Senness asked if a Comprehensive Plan Amendment should be
added to the exceptions list.
Chairman Stulberg asked for a listing showing what developments would be exempt
and why.
Mr. Lowell Whiles commented on the impact the ordinance would have on him and
others outside the MUSA. How will the City deal with us. Will I have control of my
Property, will I still have to pay fazes on it if I lose control. He said that loss of
control should be paid for by those benefiting. He asked if he would be assessed for
utilities going across the wetlands which he will never be able to use.
Director Hurlburt stated Mr. Whiteis would have to discuss this with the City Assessor.
Mr. Marc Anderson from Lundgren Bros. stated that the letter received by the Planning
Commission for Lundgren Bros. was for a Comprehensive Plan Amendment already
approved by Council, which they would like added to the Exceptional Wetlands list.
Mr. Bill Pritchard of Orrin Thompson Homes stated that they have been enlightened bythediscussionoftheordinance. He said the developers are trying to do their best.
Ms. Erika Urban of 1541 West Medicine lake stated she does not want to see any
lower setbacks and buffers. She said she felt Section 6 resulted from discussion by thedevelopers.
Chairman Stulberg stated that this ordinance is the result of the Planning Commission
working with the consultants.
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PLANNING COMINIISSION ANNUAL WORK PLAN FOR 1996
Chairman Stulberg suggested adding the balance of the wetland ordinance for existing
property to the workplan and impervious surface.
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Director Hudburt stated that the Planning Commission was not the primary commission
to act on impervious surface.
MOTIONby Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe.to approve the r
Planning Commission Annual Work Plan for 1995.
Vote. 7 Ayes. Motion carried.
The meeting adjourned at 11:20 p.m.