HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 09-21-1994CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 21, 1994
The regular meeting of the Plymouth Planning Commission was called 'to order at 7:00
p.m. by Chairman Mike Stulberg.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Barb Stimson,
Ed Albro, Virginia Black, Linda Oja, Allen Ribbe and
Christian Preus.
MEM IERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Director Anne Hurlburt, City Engineer Dan Faulkner,
Planning Supervisor Barbara Senness, and Associate
Planner John Keho
CONSENT AGENDA
LEONARD LAMPERT ARCHITECTS (94095)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Leonard Lampert Architects fora
Preliminary Plat and Final Plat to create two lots to accommodate a 62,568 square foot
expansion for the Minter Weisman Company located at 1034 Nathan Lane North.
MOTION by Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Stimson to recommend approval of the
request by Leonard Lampert Architects for a Preliminary Plat and Final Plat to create
two lots to accommodate a 62,568 square foot expansion for the Minter Weisman
Company located at 1034 Nathan Lane North, subject to all conditions listed in, the
September 14, 1994 staff report.
Vote. 6 Ayes, Chairman Stulberg abstained.
LUNDGREN BROS. CONSTRUCTION (93132)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Lundgren Bros. Construction for a Land
Use Guide Plan Amendment for Soo Line West from IP to LA -2 for property located at
the northeast intersection of Peony Lane and Old Rockford Road.
Director Hurlburt reviewed the September 13, 1994 staff report. She discussed the
present availability of residential land available for development versus the amount of
commercial and industrial, She said the Commission needed to look at the short tern
versus the long term use of land for residential and industrial development,
Planning Commission Minutes
September 21, 1994
Page 195
Associate Planned Keho reviewed the September 13, 1994 staff report. He discussed
some of the constraints on the site which would apply to either residential or industrial
development of the site. He said that if the guiding was changed to residential use the
City would receive less in assessments than from an industrial use of the site. This area
has been guided for industrial use as far back as 1965.
Commissioner Ribbe asked for an explanation of the petitioner's narrative on
comparison of potential taxes.
Director Hurlburt explahled the way the City assesses tax values on property.
Chairman Stulberg asked about the estimates in loss of taxes between the figures used
by staff and the petitioner.
Commissioner Ribbe asked if there Was any communication with the school district
involved and any response as to whether they support this proposal.
AssociatePlanner Keho stated that a notice of this item was sent to the school district.
Commissioner Black asked how far the undeveloped portion north of this site was from
1-94 and if some of the undeveloped land would be guided as industrial to replace this
industrial site. She said access to I-94 would need to be through Maple Grove.
Chairman Stulberg stated it would take about 12 minutes to reach 1-94.
Commissioner Black asked if the railroadtracks would be moved.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. John Uban a representative of the petitioner.
Mr. Uban responded that the options for the alignment of Schmidt Lake Road
previously discussed the movement of the railroad tracks but that option is not accurate
today.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Terry Forbord, a representative of the petitioner.
Mr. Forbord told the Commission what firms and persons were involved in the
development process for this site.
He discussed the history of the site. He said the site was sold by the railroad in 1987.
Lundgren purchased the site in 1990. They submitted this application in November
1993. He showed slides of the site and the surrounding area. He discussed Peony
Lane's future connection to wawndale Lane in Maple Grove. The future site of the
Wayzata High lies to the north. ,He pointed out the wetlands on the site. He said there
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September2t, 1994 -
Page 196
is a shortage of residential land in Plymouth. He said that Peony Lane is the gateway
to the future development in the northwest.
Mr. Uban discussed the land uses in the area. He said that there are many reasons for
the reguiding of this site. He said that a successful industrial development must have
visibility from the major highways. He said that the subject property is separated from
Highway 55 and would not be a good location for an industrial park. He said the
wetlands would hinder construction of spurs from the railroad tracks to serve the site.
He discussed the forecast for the supply and demand of Ind in the City in regard to
population and jobs. He said that the present availability of industrial land will more
than accommodate the projections; for the future without this site.
He said that in the future Schmidt Lake Road will have an interchange at I-494 winch
will be used for industrial traffic. The surrounding development needs the support of a
residential district as proposed. He said that the wetlands present some inefficiencies to
support an industrial development. The residential development will provide more
sensitivity to the wetlands.
Chairman Stulberg asked why LA -2 rather than LA -1 guiding.
Mr. Uban stated that the LA -2 would provide more flexibility for working around the
wetlands and the commercial area to the south,
Chairman Stulberg asked if the petitioner plans to come back with a PUD plan for the
site.
Mr. Forbord statedthat flexibility in housing product would be gained with the LA -2
guiding and a Planned Unit Development. He said that industrial development will not
happen on this site because it would not be feasible from an economic standpoint.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Sherman Malkerson, a representative of the
petitioner.
Mr. Malkerson discussed the reasons this site would not make a good industrial site.
He stated that he has worked as an industrial broker for many years. He said the site
has too many undesirable industrial characteristics such as topography, wetlands loss
factor (of 72 acres only 49 are developable), small lot size, limited building type
possibilities, and this is a,problematic neighborhood. An industrial park next to a high
school and high price residential neighborhood along with noise and residential traffic
would be problematic. Truck traffic at night would be a,problem to the residential
neighborhood. Access to the industrial park would be limited.
Mr. Forbord stated that the City's needs have changed and this area has changed. He
said the current guiding of this site does not fit with the current City philosophy. An
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September 21, 1994
Page 197
industrial site would not fit with the residential area to the cask Prospective
homeowners would be advised of the uses for the surrounding area such as the athletic
field and school sites.
Mr. Uban stated that the land characteristics are more adaptable to residential
development, there would be less hard surface, less drainage, the surrounding land uses
support residential development, the industrial uses would not use the existing railroad,
and truck traffic would use Highway 101 and Schmidtlake Road to get to 1-494.
Projected population growth by the Metropolitan Council seems high for the year 2020
and the City would be better off looking at a balanced growth for an employee base and
residences. There would not be good visibility for an industrial development. The
residential development will strengthen the use of the surrounding property uses.
Commissioner Ribbe asked if a four lane Peony lane and Schmidt Lake Road could
support an industrial use.
Mr. Uban statedit would be possible but thew roads are for residential use.
Mr. Foriwrd stated that the truck noise would be invasive to the residential
neighborhood.
Commissioner Preus asked whether some of the negative impacts of an industrial site
depend on what type of industrial business would develop the site.
Mr. Malkerson stated that there would not be big warehouse' buildings on the site. The
market would be very narrow for industrial users.
Commissioner Preus stated that the type of traffic portrayed emanating from the site
was portrayed as being from large warehouse businesses, but contradictory to the
statements that the could not support large warehouse businesses. He said that this
site probably would not curate the type of traffic that would be a problem.
Mr. Malkerson stated that there could be one or two large industrial users along Peony
Lane but the remaining users on the site would be smaller industrial businesses.
Commissioner Oja asked about the land to the north indicated as park area and land for
a high school and the purchase of some of the land by the City.
Mr. Forbord stated that they have discussed the sale of the land to the north with the
City. The map showed the projected area of a City park but this has not been agreed
upon at the present time.
Chairman Stulberg asked that the issue of tax base differences be discussed. He asked
that the Commission be advised as to how much IP land was stripped off in 1989 when
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September 21,1994
Page 198
the land use was reviewed. He said that if the Metropolitan Council figures are correct
the City will have a shortage of residential land. He said that there is a shortage of
affordable housing in the City. He asked that if this site was reguided to residential
would there still be a shortage of residential land in Plymouth.
Commissioner Ribbe asked if this area could potentially become as an area similar to
the OPUS office park south of Hopkins.
W. Malkerson responded that this area could be developed in that way.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced W. Brad Davenport of 4435 Peony Jane.
Mr. Davenport stated that he would like the guiding left as industrial. He said since if
does not seem to be a good industrial site he would "hope that the area would remain
undeveloped.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Richard Deziel of 16100 46th Avenue North.
Mr. Dulel stated he was associated with the Hollydale Golf Course. He said that
discussion of the roadway system did not include anything regarding the alignment of
Schmidt Jake Road. This is a concern of his as it may go through the golf course even
though it is not a part of this request.
Associate Planner Keho stated that the study of the actual alignment of Schmidt Lake
Road has not yet been determined.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Tom Jes of 5055 Evergreen Lane.
Mr. Jes asked if the LA -2 would include duplexes and an increase in the number of
people on the site.
Associate Planner Keho explained the LA -2 guiding.
Mr. Jes stated that safety of children approaching the high school is a concern if Peony
Lane is a four lane roadway. He said he felt the wetlands would be better for the
aesthetic value if guided industrial.
Director Hurlburt explained the tax base issues.
Mr. Forbord stated that this proposal is almost one year old and that because of the
delay the figures today will be significantly higher.
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Planning Commission tvtinutes
September 21, 1994
Page 199
Director Hulbert stated that if the site on the west were developed as industrial it would
lower the tax base on the site to the east. The industrial development would lower the
tax value to the City, whereas the residential area would increase the tax value to the
City.
Mr. Foriwrd responded to the question of affordable housing in the City of Plymouth.
He said that there is not such a thing as affordable housing because of the short supply
of land and the high cost of land. He said you would have to have a building site of
20,000 to produce a house of just under $100,0011. He doesn't see this happening in
Plymouth. The eight month delay in this project has added $2,500 to each lot on this
proposal.
Associate Planner Kelm stated that in 1989 a large area was guided as IP. Some of the
industrial area was moved to the south to the Hans Hagen property. He discussed some
other sites that were reguided from industrial to residential.
MOTION by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Albro to recommend
approval of the request by Lundgren Bros. Construction for a land Use Guide Plan
Amendment for Soo Line West from IP to IA -2 for property located at the northeast
intersection of Peony Lane and Old Rockford Road, subject to the conditions listed in
the September 13, 1994 staff report.
CommissionerAlbro stated that he at first thought industrial was best for this site but it
has been guided as such for 30 years and could remain that way indefinitely and he
now feels that the LA -2 guiding would be appropriate.
Chairman Stulberg stated that he felt that industrial traffic would be an impediment to
the proposed high school
Commissioner Black stated that she was not in favor of this proposal because there
would be too much noise from the highways and such for a residential development.
Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes, Commissioners Black and Ribbe voted Nay. Motion carried
on a5 to 2 vote.
THE CORNERSTONE GROUP (94099)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by The Cornerstone Group for a PUD
Preliminary Plan/Plat and Conditional Use Permit for The Commons at Parkers Lake
for property located at the southwest comer of hiiagara Lane and 18th Avenue North.
Associate Planned Keho reviewed the September 14, 1994 staff report.
Planning Commission Minutes
September2t, 1993
Page 200
Commissioner Black asked how the holding tank concept would work on the site.
Chairman itulberg introduced Ms. Colleen Carey, representing the petitioner.
Ms. Carey discussed the tax credit program as it applies to low income families. The
annual income would be between $20,000 to $35,000 which is figured as 60 percent of
the median income in the Twin Cities. They would be obligated to apply this criteria
to rental costs for 15 years in using the tax credit program.
Mr. Dennis Sutliff a representative of the petitioner, stated that the architectural design
would be similar to that of the nest of the Parkers lake development. He showed the
design of the buildings in the project. The apartments would be two-story with private
entries.
Mr. David Putnam described the sedimentation vaults which would store the runoff
from the site. These storage vaults were designed instead of NURP ponds because of
the steep slopes on the site. These have been used in other projects in the Bassett
Creek Watershed District. They are a very good way of maintaining storm water
quality on small sites and can be easily cleaned and maintained according.to watershed
regulations.
Commissioner Black asked how the removal of sediments from the storm water
translates to removal of the nutrients from the storm water.
Mr. Putnam stated that the nutrients are part of the sediment and would be conveyed
with the sediment.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Bearing.
He read a letter from Marsha Videen stating that her cjm;vm was that the sediment
vault would be as effective as a NURP pond.
Chairman Smlberg closed the Public Hearing.
Commissioner Albro asked if the petitioner was not required to have a NURP pond.
Director Hurlbuit stated that there must be away to deal with the sediment. A NURP
pond would be less expensive but the because of the constraints on the site this
alternative meets the best management pmctices for the site which is what is requited.
Commissioner Albro stated that the high percentage of impervious coverage is a main
concern. He said he was interestedin the comparison of the NURP pond versus the
sedimentation vault and whether the vault was as effective.
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Planning Commission Minutes
September 21, 1994
Page201
Mr. Putnam stated that the concern is that of lack of familiarity. He said that the
sediment vault is expensive and as effective as a NURP pond. He said the vault would
need to be inspected.
Chairman Stulburg stated that it is up to the Bassett Creek Watershed District as the
governing body to determine whether this alternative is as effective.
Commissioner Stimson stated that she trusts the decision of the City Engineer in this
area.
Commissioner Albro asked that the proof -of -parking plan be explained.
Mr. Sutliff stated that the park;ng is in excess of what is required and a lot was placed
under the building to cutdown on the amount of impervious surface.
Commissioner Albro asked that a parking management plan be dtsigned for the project.
Ms. Carey stated that they do have a parking plan for the site. People will be assigned
parking spaces and there will be no recreational vehicles allowed on the site.
Ms. Patty St. Pierre,:a representative of the petitioner, discussed the parking plan
staling that there would be no storage allowed in the parking arra. She said that two
cars per unit would be allowed and special permission would be needed for any
additional vehicles if parking spaces were available.
MOTION by Commissioner Stimson, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe to recommend
approval of the request by The Cornerstone Group for a PUD Preliminary Plan/Plat
and Conditional Use Permit for The Commons at Parkers Lake for property located at
the southwest comer of Niagara Lane and 18th Avenue North, subject to all conditions
listed in the September 14, 1994 staff report.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Cja to
recommend that a parking management plan be submitted to address outside storage of
vehicles and designated parking.
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Amend. 7 Ayes, Motion carried on a unanimous vote.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion. 7 Ayes. Motion carried on a unanimous vote.
Planning Supervisor Senness reminded the Commissioners that there would be a joint
meeting with the City Council on Monday, September 26 to discuss the wetland
ordinance,
Planning Commission Minutes
September 21, 1994
Page 202
Chairman Stulberg stated that he would like to discuss the goal or end result of the
wetland ordinance with the City Council, He said that water quality is foremost and he
asked where habitat fits into the plan.
Commissioner Albro stated that he wanted to discuss the risk to'the City of a rear yard
buffer on all lots in the City.
Commissioner Stimson wants to know the feeling of the Council regarding the
application of the ori inan4e to the developed portion of the City.
chairmanStulberg asked if there could be a summary of the problems or stumbling
blocks the Planning Commission has encountered while working on the wetland
ordinance.
Commissioner Ribbe would like to discuss the issue of what will the establishment of
an ordinance do to the development of land in the City. What have other suburbs
found after an ordinance has been adopted.
planning Supervisor Senness stated that the developers are planning a presentation
the October 26 Planning Commission meeting to discuss what the results of an
ordinance will have on future development.
Directorilurlbutt stated that some of the developers have stated that the ordinance will,
increase the costs of future homes but they have not seen any real figures to substantiate
this statement.
Commissioner Albro stated that any comparisons should be made between cities that
are comparable to Plymouth as far as the amount of wetlands in the. City.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that Chanhassen does not have any figures to
substantiate the effects of a wetland ordinance.
Chairman Stulberg reminded the Commission that they need to get to work on the
Commission work plan.
Commissioner Stimson asked if the Commission could limit the time a petitioner could
spend discussing their proposal.
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Discussion ensued. It was the consensus of the Commission that staff discuss this issue
with petitioners prior to the meeting.
The meeting adjourned at 10:30 p.m.
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