HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 03-09-1994CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUM
MARCH 9, 1994
The regular meeting of the Plymouth Planning Commission was called to order at 7:00
p.m. by Chairman Mike Stulberg.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Virginia Black,
Jack Hill, Ed Albro and Linda Oja.
MEMBERS ABSENT. Commissioners Barb Stimson and Allen Ribbe.
STAFF PRESENT: Director Anne Hurlburt, City Engineer Dan Faulkner,
Planning Supervisor Barb Senness, Associate Planner
John Keho, and Planning Secretary Jackie Watson
MINUTES:
MOTION by CommissionerA;bm, seconded by Commissioner Oja, to approve the
February 23, 1994 Planning Commission Minutes,
Vote. 4 Ayes, Commissioner Black abstained. Motion carried.
CARLSON REAL ESTATE COMPANY (940:0)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Carlson Real Estate Company for a
Preliminary Plat and Final Plat for Carlson Center 12th Addition fora 3 -lot
commercial subdivision located at the southeast comer of I-494 and Carlson Parkway.
Associate Planner Keho reviewed the February 28, 1994 staff report.
Commissioner Black asked about the number of parking spaces which would be
required and how our requirements compared to those of the City of St. Louis Park.
Associate Planner Kelm stated he was not familiar with St. Louis Park's requirements
and that staff would not review this count until the Site Plan application.
Director Hurlburt stated that when the Site Plan is,presented we can expect the parking
spaces to meet requirements,
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Linda Fisher representing the petitioner.
Ms. Fisher stated that they concur with the conditions in the staff report and Were
available to answer any questions.
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Chairman Stulberg opened and closed the Public Hearing as there was no one present to
speak on the request.
MonON by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Hill to recommend
approval of the request by Carlson Real Estate Company for a Preliminary Plat for
Carlson Center 12th Addition for ar3-lot commercial subdivision located at
southeast comer of I-494 and Carlson Parkway, subject to the conditions listed in the
February 28, 1994 staff report.
Commissioner Albro asked at what stage the site considerations would be discussed.
Chairman Stulberg stated that site considerations are discussed at the Site Plan stage.
Director Hurlburt stated that staff has already been discussing some of these things such
as elevations, landscaping, driveways, and parking which will be a part of the Site
Plan. Fhe said that she expects a Site Plan could be submitted in about a month.
Commissioner Albro stated that there were two stands of trees on the site that he would
like to see remain intact.
Ms. Fisher stated that the general grading plan shows that these wooded areas would
remain intact.
Commissioner Albro asked if a privacy fence would be built the full length of the site
to buffer the neighborhood.
Ms. Fisher stated that Carlson Real Estate stated at previous hearing that they would
be wilting to erect an 8 foot fence along Berkshire. Lane to buffer the neighborhood
She said that staff advised them that this fence would require the full appnrval of the
neighborhood because this height was higher that what was allowed in the ordinance
and it would have to be placed on private property. She said they were still willing to
install this fence.
Chairman Stulberg stated this could be discussed at Site Plan stage.
Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes, Motion to approve the Preliminary Plat carried on an
unanimous vote.
MOTION by Commissioner Atbro, seconded by Commissioner Black to recommend
approval of the Final Plat for Carlson Center 12th Addition for a 34ot commercial
subdivision located at the southeast corner of 1494 and Carlson Parkway, subject to all
conditions listed in the February 28, 1994 staff report.
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Wmh 9,.1994
Page 22
Roll Salt Vsf . t.carried en
an.nnanimous-vote: -
CARLSON REAL ESTATE COMPANY (94014)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the inquest by Carlson Real Estate. Company for a
Preliminary Plat, Site Plan and Conditional Use Permit for a Super America
convenience store; a Conditional Use Permit and Site Plan for a fast food restaurant;
and, a Variance from the Subdivision Code for the creation of a lot without frontage on
a public street, for property located at the southeast comer of 1494 and County Road
6.
Associate Planner Keho reviewed the February 28, 1994 staff report.
Commissioner HiL asked if the City had any standards as to how close a gas station
should be to another gas station, or how large an area a gas station should service.
Associate Planner Keho responded that the City did not have any data on this subject.
Commissioner Black asked if the storm water pond would be separated from the
wetland to keep out the oil, gas and other chemicals from the service station;
City Engineer Faulkner stated that the storm water pond location had not been fully
addressed at this time but would be done when the weather is nicer. It is classified as a
wetland:
Director Hurlbutt stated that the design of the storm water pond was not complete but it
would have to meet NURP regulations.
Commissioner Hill asked if the possibility of people driving down the street and
making a U -tum had been addressed.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that a "No U -Turn" sign may have to be installed.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. John Paulson, of KKG Architects, representing the
petitioner.
Mr. Paulson reviewed the request, and stated that the site would not be visible from the
Interstate Highway. He said that pylon signage was not planned because the site
would be strictly for use by the surrounding industrial arra. He displayed the building
exterior design and discussed the restaurant size footprint as being typical of any fast
food restaurant. He said that two issues remain; the removal of the advertising sign
along 1-494; and; the traffic signalization at the intersection on County Road 6.
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Planning Conunission Minutes
March 9, 1994
Page 23
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Steve Pellinen, HTPO Engineering, Inc., also
representing the petitioner.
Mr.. Pellinen stated that the billboard sign was currently within the existing property
line and he proposed that the property line be relocated so that the billboard could
remain, Asking that this request be approved with this line relocated. He said that the
right-of-way ramp line used was from an old survey and that theStateof Minnesota did
not obtain the propertyright-of-wayat the time the ramp was built.
Mr. Brad Lis from Carlson Real Estate Company stated that the dedication of the right-
of-way became a complicated issue because of the sign and there never was a meeting
of the minds as to where the new property line should have been after the right-of-way
was dedicated. The issue got dropped and it was never finished. The sign was the
problem and it was always the intent that the sign remain on the Carlson property.
Commissioner Black asked who owned the property.
Mr. Lis stated that Carlson Real Estate Company owned the property including the
portion that was to be dedicated to the State as right-of-way.
Mr. Pellinen stated that the State would determine whether the fence on the property
would remain or have to be removed and they would abide by the State's decision.
Commissioner Black asked if a variance would be. required if the sign was to remain.
Associate Planner Keho stated that the State may requi..: iSat the sign be removed if it
is located on the right-of-way.
Commissioner Black asked if it was up to the Commission to determine where the new
property line would be.
Chairman Stulberg stated that the Plasming Commission could determine whether or not
they want the sign removed if it remained on Carlson property.
Mr. Lis stated that the movement of the property line was a new issue that arose after
the staff report was written. He said they bad just discovered the history of the
property line.
Director Hurlburt stated that there would need to be a condition added to the staff
report if the sign was tosemaM, if it was on the Carlson site.
Commissioner Oja stated that she was concerned that Lot 4 did not have street access
and that she did nct feel this was the best way to develop the site.
Plammng.Commission Minutes
March 9, 1994
Page 24
Mr. Lis stated that the easement proposed would allow access to this site.
Mr. Lis stated that any development on this site would result in the same traffic
concerns.
Chairman Stulberg asked if more cuts onto County Road 6 would eliminate the traffic
concerns.
Associate Planner Keho stated that Hennepin County stated that only one access would
be allowed onto County Road' 6 as shown in the current design.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that the storm drainage pond was currently in place, but
would be expanded to accommodate the drainage.
Commissioner Oja stated that she did not feel that the design of having to drive through
the Super America site to get to the fast food restaurant was the best way to plan the
traffic flow rind that it seemed it might cause some congestion.
Commissioner Black asked why run the buildings north/south rather than east/west
Mr. Lis stated that an east[west design would cause more congestion. He said that
there was enough stacking for 10 cars for the fast food restaurant which would be more
than enough to eliminate any congestion.
Mr. Paulson concurred that there would not be enough space if the design were turned
around as suggested.
Director Hurlburt stated that a sign could be placed at the entrance driveway for Super
American encouraging drivers to proceed to the far entrance for entrance to the fast
food restaurant.
Chairman Stulberg oper3d the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Robert Videen of 1151 Kingsviewlane.
Mr. Videen stated that he was happy to see this plan, as the neighborhood really needs
this development. He said he Would like to have a sidewalk along County Road 6 so
thosein the neighborhood could ride bikes or walk to the site. He said he wanted the
advertising sign removed because it would become their advertising sign if left on the
property. He said that he also had concerns about the storm water drainage pond..
Chairman Stulberg closed the public Hearing.
Planning Commission Mmocs
March $.1994
Page 25
Associate Planner Keho stated that the trail plan does not show an extension of the tail
along County Road.
Chairman Stulberg asked ifthe parking stalls against the proposed fast foot restaurant
building would interfere withthosedriving to the driveup window. He said that if
stacking was more than 10 cars it would extend into the parking stalls for use by the
indoor patrons of the restaurant.
Mr. Paulson responded that it would be very unlikely to have stacking of over 10 cars.
Director Hurlbmt stated that the drive aisles were wide enough for 2 cars to pass
easily.
Commissioner Albro asked if the existing CMG parking lot would be separated by
some sort of barrier to discourage access into the lot for drives wanting to drive down
the road so that they could turn around to drive back east.
Associate Planner Keho stated that no changes were planned to other property in the
area such as CMG industrial building.
CommissionerHill stated that traffic might use this lot to make a U-turn.
Commissioner Oja asked if any thought had been give to placing a public street in this
area.
Associate Planner Keho stated there were no plans for any additional public streets in
this area.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that it would cost of $60-$70 thousand to install a traffic
signal at this intersection.
Mr. Lis stated that they want the traffic signal at this intersection. He said it would
benefit this site as well as truck tic from the CMG building. He said be did not feel
people would use the CMG site as through street.
M01TON by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Hill to recommend
approval of the request by Carlson Real Estate Company fora Preliminary Plat fora
Super America gas station located southeast of 1-494 and County Road 6, subject to all
conditions listed in the February 28, 1994 staff report.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Hill,
changing Conditions No. 10 to state that the removal of the sign on Lot 4 must be done
prior to recording of the final .plat.
Planning CorrmMon Minutes
AUmh 9,1994
Page 26
Commissioner Albro stated that be thought they would need a pylon sign on the site.
Associate Planner Keho stated that pylon signage was prohibited by a condition in the
staff report.
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Amend. 4 Ayes. Commissioner Oja voted Nay.
MOTION to Amend by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Albru to
recommend that PRAC review the trail plan to continue the trail along County Road 6
to this' site.
Associate Planner Keho stated that there were no future plans for a trail on the east side
ofthis site which would connect to this proposed amendment.
Chairman Stulberg withdrew the amendment, Commissioner Albro concurred.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion. 4 Ayes. Commissioner Oja voted Nay. Motion
carried on a 4-1 vote.
MOTION by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Hill to recommend
approval of the request by Carlson Real Fstate Company for a Site Plan and
Conditional Use Permit for a Super America Convenience Store, subject to all
conditions listed in the February 28, 1994 staff report.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Black to
include a condition which states that entrance signage shall be installed to indicate that
the fust entrance on the site would be for access to the gas station, and, that patrons of
the fast food restaurant were to use the next entrance on the site for access.
Commissioner Hill stated he felt the applicants would do whatever is best to move the
traffic on the site.
Director Hurlburt stated that it would be useful to have this language as a condition in
the resolution.
Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. Motion carred on an unanimous vote.
Commissioner Hill stated that he was not a proponent of having a traffic light at this
intersection,, but questioned whether there would be a safety issue in the future
without one. He asked if a traffic signal should be considered at this time or if we
should wait until it's needed.
City Engineer Faulkner stated there was the potential in the future that this intersection
would become a safety issue without a traffic signal.
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Chairman Stulberg stated 'that if a left tum was restricted at the intersection, it would be
unusual for someone to make a left tum.
Commissioner Hill asked if Hennepin County made any reference to any signalization
at this intersection.
Associate Planner %eho stated that Hennepin County stated that they would go along
with whatever the City decided.
Commissioner Albro stated that the petitioner should pay for the traffic signal if it was
recommended and approved.
MOTION to Amend by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Albro to add to
Condition No. 12 language stating "unless signalization is approved'
Commissioner Hill stated that language should be added to the Motion to Amend
stating that "unless signalization is approved for safety reasons"; and, that "the
applicant would pay for the installation of the traffic signal
Chairman Stulberg and Commissioner Albro agreed to have this language added to
their Motion to Amend.
Mr. Lis stated that they met with County and were told they were not concerned with a
traffic signal at this location. He said he would have Strgar look at the site intersection
as a safety issue,
Director Hurlburt stated that the Strgar report did state that a signal would be warrented
at the intersection.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that be would like to see some additional analysis done
on this intersection relating to die safety issue.
Roil Call Vote on Motion to Amend 5. 5 Ayes. Motion carried on an unanimous vote.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion as twice amended 5 Ayes. Motion carried on an
unanimous vote.
MOTION by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Black to recommend
approval of the request by Carlson Real Estate Company fora Site Plan and
Conditional Use Permit for a Class II Restaurant to be located at the southeast comer of
I-494 and County Road 6, subject to all conditions listed in the February 28, 1994 staff
report.
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March 9, 1994 _
Page 28 -
Commission Albro asked why pylon signage was prohibited in Condition No. 11. .
Associate Planner Keho stated that this condition was requested'by petitioner. He said
this retail use was to serve only the industrial district.
MOTION by Commissioner Albro to delete Condition No. 11 which prohibited pylon
signage.
MOTION died for lack of a second.
Commissioner Albro Stated that tds intent was to leave the door open in case the site
occupants felt additional signags was needed.
Associate Planner Keho stated that the applicant could come back to the Planning
Commission with a Conditional Use Permit Amendment for additional signage.
Roll Call Vote, 4 Ayes. Commissioner Oja voted Nay. Motion carried on a 41 vote.
Chairman Stulberg called a recess at US p.m. The meeting reconvened at 8:45 p.m.
METROQUIP, INC. (94015)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Metroquip, Inc, for a Conditional Use
Permit for an industrial equipment rental business and outside storage at 25th Avenue
North just east of Cheshire Lane.
Associate Planner Keho reviewed the February 28, 1994 staff report.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. George Klein representing the petitioner.
Mr. Klein stated that. he was in agreement with the staff report.,
Commissioner Hill asked if this request was for a new use. He asked if had only been
a corporate use equipment up to this time,
Mr. Klein stated that it was a new use. The company saw the need for rental of
industrial equipment to enhance their business.
Commissioner Oja asked if the storage arca would be blacktop, and whether the fence
would be outside or inside the line of trees.
Mr. Klein responded that the trees would be would on the outside of the fence. He
said they would plan 4 -foot Mugho pines.
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Page 29
Commissioner Oja asked if additieial trees could be staggered along the storage area.
Associate Planner Keho stated that the other side of the storage area was the access
point to the site and the parking area.
Mr. Klein stated that additional trees in this area would screen the old building from
the new building and divide the site.
Commissioner Oja asked in the applicant would add additional trees on south side of
the site.
Mr. Klein stated that this would be agreeable.
Chairman Stulberg opened and clused the Public Hearing as there was no one present to
speak on the application.
MOTION by Commissioner Black seconded by Commissioner Albro, to recommend
approval of the inquest by Metroquip, Inc. for a Conditional Use Permit for an
industrial equipment rental business and outside storage at 25th Avenue North just east
of Cheshire Lane, subject to all conditions listed in the February 28, 1994 staff report.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Oja, seconded by Commissioner Albro, to add
11 additional trees for a total of 22 evergreen trees, in addition to the fencing and the
trees already proposed on the south side of the site.
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Amend. 4 Ayes. Commissioner Hill voted Nay.
Associate Planner Keho discussed the wetland mitigation plan that was approved for
this site previously at the request of Commissioner Hill.
Commissioner Albro commented that this was a good location for this type of business
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion as once amended. 5 Ayes. Motion carried on an
unanimous vote.
WETLAND OP,DINANCE AND SCHEDULE
Barb Senness discussed the schedule for the: approval of this ordinance stating that the
schedule was set by the City Council.
She discussed the memo presented to the Commissioners relating to setbacks, buffer
zones and classifications, The present ordinance allows for wetlands to be part of the
Planning Commission Minutes
March 9,1994
Page30
rear yard setback. 'Tins proposal calls for a rear yard setback and buffer zone between
a principal structure and the wetland.
She showed some mapping of the effects of this proposed ordinance on two current
developments in process with examples of rear yard setbacks of 25 feet and buffer
zones of 30 and 50 feet, which showed the number of building sites that would be lost
with each setback.
She said that these setbacks and buffers could affect city design, sprawl, undevelopable
land, etc. She said that buffer areas in residential areas could eventually become part
of the back yards and that enforcement is an issue.
Commissioner Oja asked who owned the wetland areas.
Planning Supervisor Senness responded that the homeowner would own the area but it
would be controlled by the City.
Commissioner Black stated that at the Water Quality Commission meeting on Tuesday
evening an informal vote was taken and most participants wanted a 50 -foot buffer
around the wetlands. She said most research indicated that a 50 -foot buffer would be
best. She said she felt that natural and ag/urban classified wetlands should have the
same requirements as the ag/urban could rejuvenate itself. She said that the artificially
created ponds did not need a buffer.
Commissioner Hill asked if the primary reason for a buffer area was to protect the
wetland from runoff and/or sediment.
Commissioner Black stated that a 30 -foot buffer protects the wetland from runoff
and/or sediment but that a Luger buffer was better protection for wildlife.
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Commissioner Hill stated that he would like staff to bring back information on what
other communities are doing to protect the wetlands.
City Engineer Faulkmer stated that the protection of water quality is affected by
phosphonis in fertilizers and these chemicals should be restricted next to wetlands.
Director Hurlburt stated that use of chemicals could be restricted for the entire City.
Commissioner Hill asked what actually was the goal the City wanted to accomplish.
Commissioner Oja'asked how the ordinance would it be enforced.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that Maple Grove intends to use helicopters.
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Commissioner Hill asked if the City had agood inventory of the wetlands.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that the City does not have a good inventory of the
wetlands.
Director Hurlburt stated that developers will have to have their parcels surveyed as part
of their application.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the City of Chanhassen had all their wetlands
classified prior to development and it was very costly. She suggested it be done at the
time of development.
Chaitmau Stulberg stated that the purpose and intent of the ordinance could change the
density. He said that the past few years smaller lot sizes were approved which created
more density. He said that we needed to be cautious that this ordinance does not
increase density and in tum create traffic problems.
Director Hurlburt stated that this ordinance would not necessarily change density, but
would change lot lines. She said we need to look at the developable portion of the site
and change the layout to respond to the characteristics of the site.
Commissioner Albro stated that he was distressed at the push to get an ordinance :
enacted: He said the staff should come up with an interim plan so there would be a lot
more time to study this issue. He said that a reduction in density where City streets
and services are already in place would take more houses off the tax roles and the
services would not be used to capacity. He said that the reductions in services would
increase costs to existing taxpayers. He said he felt a'thorough study needed to be
done, or this could be a potential disaster for the City;
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the City Council directed the pace of the
schedule and that there could be some legal problems with future development if an
interim ordinance is enacted.
Commissioner Albro asked if the State Wetlands Act of 1991 established a buffer zone.
He said he can see a need for a buffer but would like to know what was in excess of the
State Wetlands Act.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that a buffer was not it part of the Wetland Act, and
the State does not specify classification of wetlands. She said the State maybe looking
at classification in the future,
Director Iiurlburt stated that the ordinance will need to be to crafted for existing
development as well as new development impacts,
Planning. Commission Minutes
March 9, 1994
Page 37.
Commissioner Albro asked what legal problems an interim ordinance would create.
Director Hurlburt stated we could be said to be arbitrary and capricious by approving
an interim ordinarez for a short time; and, developments already in process could
create problems.
Commissioner Black stated that a quick decision would protect the City from being
accused of taking or being arbitrary and capricious. She said that taking issues would
have the most impact on developments already in process, and less impact on future
developments.
Director Huriburt stated that those applications in process will have to be defined as to
how they would be phased into the new plan.
Commissioner Albro asked for a definition of the mission for this ordinance; was it
water quality, habitat or what. He said that Plymouth was a City, and there are places
for the type of living being discussed regarding wetlands.
Planning Supervisor 5enness stated that primary consideration has been preservation of
water quality.
Commissioner Albro stated that he wants to see,a matrix of the proposal, what others
are doing, and, what are we doing that is in excess of the wetland act.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the buffer and classification of the different
wetlands were the only differences from the wetland act.
DirectorHurlburt asked who would decide the classification of the different wetlands
Planning Supervisor Senness responded that the City would identify the criteria to be
used to identify each type of wetland. Criteria would indicate type of species found
and adjacent land uses,
Commissioner Albm asked itthue would be some provisions made for changes in
holding ponds.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that them could be provisions for exemptions,
Commissioner Black stated that changes from NURP ponds to wetlands could be
protected:
Comarvision Albro stated that a 4th classification ought to be artificially created areas
that have regenerated into a wetland.
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Pagc 33
Associate Planner Keho stated that the only unprotected areas would be sedimentation
ponds, even though they take on wetland characteristics.
Chairman Stulberg stated that with the many issues raised at tonight's meeting, the
deadline for adoption may be too fast. He said he viould have to wait until he sees the
drafted ordinance. i
Commissioner Black stated that an interim ordinance would create more problems and
in order to avoid battles the City needs to come to a decision.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated the wetlands need to be looked as a valueadded and
we should use the wetlands as a positive advantage in the City.
Commissioner Albro stated that there are wetlands on most of the land left in the City
that has not been developed.
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Commissioner Slack stated that that is the reason we need an ordinance.
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Director Hurlburt stated that the Commission was also going to have to relook at the
Shorehmd issues.
Chairman Stulberg;asked that any wetland reports be mailed to the Commissioners as
soon as they are wady.
Planning Supervisor Senness gave the dates of the meetings that will be held the week
of March 14 - 1S with developers and the public regarding the proposed wetland
ordinance.
Motion to adjourn the meeting by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner
Oja.
Vote. 5 Ayes, Ile meeting adjourned at 10:15 p.m.
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