HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 01-26-1994CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMbMSSION MDRYM
JANUARY 26,1994
The regular meeting of the Plymouth Planning Commission was called to order at 7:00
p.m. by Chairman Mike Stulberg.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Barb Stimson,
Julie Witt, Ed Albro and Dennis Zylla.
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Director Anne Hurl6urt, City Engineer Dan Faulkner,;,
Assistant City Attorney Paul Ymninski, Associate Planner
John Keho, and Planning Secretary Jackie Watson
CONSENT AGENDA:
RYAN CONSTRUCTION COMPANY (93140)
MOTION by Commissioner Stimson, seconded by Commissioner Albre to recommend
approval of the inquest by Ryan Construction Company for a Site Pian A mendment for
a 75,760 square foot building expansion to the Ameridata Systems Build og at 10200;
51st Avenue North.
Vote. 5 Ayes. Motion cae;ed
MINUTES:
MOTION by Commissioner Stimson, seconded by Commissioner Albro to approve the
January 12, 1994 Planning Commission minutes.
Vote. 5 Ayes, Motion carried.
CARL -SON REAL ESTATE (93117)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the discussion of a Land Use Guide Plan Amendment
from IP to CR -2; Rezoning from I-1 to B-2 and, General Development Plan
Amendment for property located at the southeast comer of Carlson Parkway and 1-494.
Director Iiudburt reviewed the January 18, 1994 staff report.
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Page 6
Assistant City Attorney Paul Kaminski stated that this is a compIttely new review and
the Commissioners are not bound by any of their former actions.
Chairman Stulberg opener the Public Hearing,.
Chairman Stulbergintroduced I&. Robert Hoffman, representing Carlson Real Estate
Company.
Mr. Hoffman stated that the entire public record of events leading up to this meeting
including the joint public bearing in Minnetonka were considered to be included as a
part of his presentation. He stated that on December 20, 1993 the City Council made a
legislative decision which approved the reguiding of this site to CR -2 and the rezoning
to B-2 as being in the best interest of the community. He said that all the testimony
from the public was considered by the Council in making this decision. He said that
this issue tonight is completely different and questioned whether there was a legal and
factual basis to reguide this property from CR -2- and B-2. He said that the typical test
usually used in matters like this was whether there was a change or new information
presented since December 20, 1993. He said that to rescind a zoning ordinance, the
City must make their finding based on the entity= record. He said that the record
contains no new information.
He stated that if the guiding and rezoning were rescinded by the City that Carlson Real
Estate Company would be faced with some significant damages. He said that they have
spent over $250,000 already on this request, and they would suffer a $4,000,000 loss
of value and $6,000,000 TIF liability if the reguiding was rescinded. He said that the
Planning Commission findings for denial of the proposed project were properly rejected
by the City Council, and, that there were no facts in the public record to support the
findings of the Planning Commission. He said that the findings of the Planning
Commission in November 1993 were ones that could not be sustained by the record.
He said these were no facts in the record to support the denial of the CR -2 finding.
He stated that the CR -2 site was across from a pond and not across from a residential
site. He said that the other CR -2 guided sites across from this CR -2 property was
adjacent to residential. He said there were several places in Plymouth where CR -2
abuts residential property such as Roeldbrd Road, the Old Plymouth Shopping Center
on Highway 55, and, the area northwest of County Road 6. He said that the
Downtown Plymouth area permits retail uses.
Mr. Hoffman stated that the finding that CR -2 guiding will negatively impact other
CR -2 guiding existing inPlymouth had no factual information supporting this in the
record. He said that the finding that the reguiding would insult in an inappropriate
transition between the project site and an existing residential neighborhood had no facts
in the record to support this statement. Sam's would be 680 feet from the neatest
residence, whereas only a 260 foot setback would be needed for an industrial site: The
Planning Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Page 7
Sam's proposal was much smaller than the previous Wal-Mart proposal and would have
more landscaping, mom tree preservation and less visibility from the residential
neighborhood. He said there was nothing in the public record to dispute this.
Mr. Hofhnan stated that the finding of a negative impact on neighbors due to increased
traffic, timing of traffic and noise generation had nothing in record to support this,
such as a traffic study. He said Sam's would generate less traffic and would not affect
the Transportation Plan, Sam's would generate less P.M. traffic, but more evening and
weekend traffic. He said that Carison's information supported thew items. He mid
that this plan does not exceed roadway design, or noise, and, that it was only a
perception that tuPse impacts would be negative.
He said that the finding tfA3, ; the site could be reasonably developed under the IP
guiding had nn facts in the record to support this finding. The Economic Research
Corporationstudy explained the unreasonableness of an industrial project.
Mr. Hoffman stated that the City Council recognized the benefits that a Sam's Club
would have on the community. Fre showed a chart comparing the attributes of an
industrial use versus a Sam's use regard to site lines, setbacks/landscape, offsite
amenities, truck traffic, building distance from homes, tax base, jobs timing, design
framework manual, and weekend/evening traffic, and that even though there were some
increases in the noise and traffic operations, they would have no adverse affects,
Mr. Hoffman stated that the City Council asked that a covenant be required for the site
to assure that a Sam's Club only would be allowed cn the site and this would run for 30
years, and would run with the land. He said he felt this covenant would have a more
limiting control than the zoning. He explained that when the site was zoned I-1 it was
limited in not being able to have all the uses of I-1 under the general development plan.
He said it would not be easy to overturn a contractual agreement in the courts unless
both sides agreed. He cited some other developments where covenants exist in
Plymouth.
Mr. Hoffman asked if there was in therecordthe reasonable facts needed to rezone this
site. He said that there was not now nor were there any reasonable facts to support the
denial of the reguiding by the Planning Commission in November 1993. He said that
the City Council believed that there wee not reawnable facts to support the denial of
the request.
Chairman Stulberg stated that the reason the Planning Commission denied the request.
for reguiding of the site at a previous' meeting was because the reguiding to CR -2
would result in an inappropriate transition between the large retail center and an
existing residential neighborhood.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 25, 1994
Page 8
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Richard Stewart of 13910 Knollway Drive South,
Minnetonka.
Mr. Stewart stated that he lived'behind the Toys 'R' Us store. He said that the motion.
at the City Council meeting on December 20, 1993 was stated as a negative. After the
vote was taken he. said he asked if this motion was properly voted on and passed. He
said he felt the vote was incorrect. He stated that the covenant was not
and.
explained -
at the Council meeting, and that because of some heavy lobbying on one individual, the
decision to approve. Mr. Stewart stated that the plan approved in the early 80's
established the process for development of this site, and he Carlson was asking for a
major variance. He said he did not feel Carlson needed the break they are asking for. n
He said that in the cases cited by Mn Hoffman where retail abutts residential property,
the retail development was thele in most cases before the residential arra was
developed. h
Mr. Stewart stated that Carlson submitted a study stating that there would be no
changes in the noise levels a.d they downplayed the fact that traffic would not impact
the neighborhood. ' He said he felt the intent was to create a link between the Ridgedale
Shopping Center and this site.
Mr. Stewart stated that noise is difficult to project as an impact. He said the traffic on
Cheshire lane was already heavy, and has been increasing. He said that industrial
noise could be higher than that of a retail development, but it could also be lower. He
said that most of what you are hearing are guesses. He said he did not think a two-lane
road would be wide enough to handle the traffic generated from this proposal; He said
that Carlson Real Estate had stated that they would not take the responsibility to widen
the road if it was neoded. He said they would maim that the traffic was coming from I-
494 or Carlson Parkway. He said he was afraid that if a Sam's was constructed on this
site that the developer would go back to Minnetonka to find a retail use in that City
which would add to the traffic problems. He said he was also concerned with drainage
from the site affecting the Knollway neighborhood.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. rave Nygmn of420 Berkshire Lane.
Mr. Nygren commented that Mr. Hoffman was skillful and had done Ids homework.
However, Mr. Hoffman stated that some of the neighboring residents were in favor of
this proposal. He said that there had been only one citizen who had spoken in favor of
this proposal, and that this person would not be affected by this development. He said
that the Council that voted on this matter had two outgoing members, and, that this
should have been held off until the new Council tookplace. He said that the addition
of a required covenant created a totally different animal, changing the nature of the
business. He said this was still a retail busivess and he felt it was necessary to keep
residents interests at heart;
Planning Commission Minutes 4_
January 26, 1994
Page 9
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Dwayne Noren of 13612 5th Avenue North. _
Mr. Noren stated that this development would curate an environmental change to the
Cheshire Lane area in the evenings and on the weekends, whereas an office type
development would not change the environment.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Jerry Leininger of 13624 5th Avenue North.
Mr. Lcininger stated that previous Planting Commission decisions were in the best
interest of the neighborhood and he asked them to approve the rescission. He said that
the future of the neighborhood rests on the decision tonight. He said that covenant
was new information. He said he spoke with two Council Members and was told that
they felt they had made a hasty decision..
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Dannette Hensersky of 225 Zinnia Lane.
Ms. Hensersky stated that she disagreed with the comment by Mr. Iioffman that there
would be no negative impact resulting from a Sam's on this site. She said that aSam's
would create a huge negative impact, including a loss in value to the existing residential
property, She said that the City could be creating a slum area within Plymouth if the
residential area deteriorated because current owners would move to get away from such
a development. She said that development should enhance all property. She said she
was also concerned with water runoff, and traffic. She said that if the traffic caused a
lot of congestion people would not shop at Sam's Club and it would possibly rxrt be
as profitable as they hoped. She suggested that something should be done on this site
that would give something back to the community, such as a park.
Chairman Stulberg commented that the Planning Commission does not deal with land
values. This is discussed at the Council level.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Sharon Carrington of 415 Berksftire Lane
Ms. Carrington stated that the Planning Commission had recommended denial of this
request for 10 months. She stated that the residential development around the Target
Greatland area on Rockford Road was developed after the'farget Store was completed
and that those residential citizens knew that there was a retail development near their
homes. She stated that the access roads to Rockford Road Plaza also do not through .
the residential area as would this proposed development. She said the increase in
traffic would impact the children in the neighborhood and she would prefer an
industrial site that would be quite at nights and on the weekends.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Doug Webber of 13627 Sth Avenue North.
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Page 10
Mr. Webber stated that the CR -2 guided site across from this site would ptovide'a
greater distance from the closest residence. He said that there currently are no street
lights in the neighborhood, only light from Carlson Parkway. He said that lights from
a Sam's Club would negatively impact the neigb,torhood. He said that increase in
traffic was a concern as well as an increase in noise. He said that the noise level tests
which were presented at an earlier meeting by the petitioner cannot be believed.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Marilyn Gordon of 410 Zinnia Lane.
Ms. Gordon stated that the guide plan has been in place for years and she had expected
it to stay as it was. She said that the jobs created by a Sam's Club would below
paying jobs. She',said she objected to the increased traffic, and believed that the
roadway would have to be increased to 4 lanes to handle the traffic.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. SusanBlomker of 205 Zinnia Iane.
Ms. Blomker stated she did not know that this item was going to be discussed at the
December 20, 1993 City Council meeting. She said she was told that some Council
members stated that theymisunderstood the situation on December 20. She said she
was concerned with an increase in traffic, noise and air pollution in this area. She said
she felt that any paid studies could be biased by the person paying for them.
Chairman Stulberg, introduced Mr. Kenneth Olson of 277 Berkshire Lane.
Mr. Olson stated that there was new information resulting from the December 20, 1993
meeting. He said that many of the neighbors did not know about that meeting. He
commented on Mr. Hoffman's statement that the neighbors only have feelings, and that
Carlson heal Estate had the facts, stating that this is a case of the law versus opinion.
He said that governments are supposed to be by, for and of the people, and that those
who voted to approve the reguiding did not represent the people.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Patrick Cannon of 260 Berkshire Lane.
Mr. Cannon stated that he felt the information given by Carlson Real Estate regarding
the noise measurements was biased.
Chairman Stulberg closed the Public Hearing,
City Engineer Faulkner discussed the site drainage that would flow to the south, stating
that a more precise plan would need to be submitted at later stages in the development.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Page 11
Associate Planner Keho stated that other CR -2 guided sites in the City would not be
large enough for this type of request. He said that this area was not identified as a
future park site as suggested by one of the citizens.
Chairman Stulberg stated that a lighting plan was required to be submitted at a later
stage in the development process.
Commissioner Zylla asked when discussion began regarding a covenant.
Director Hurlburt stated 'hat a covenant was discussed at the December 6, 1993
Council meeting. It would be contingent upon City Attorney review. She said that the
applicant had submitted a Final Plat application for this site but it has not yet been
reviewed. She said that the Comprehensive Plan Amendment for the site would not be
submitted to the Metropolitan Council for review until all discussions of this application
have been completed.
Assistant City Attorney Kaminski stated that procedures for publication of an
Ordinance for Rezoning would not be published until approval was received from the
Metropolitan Council and the Final Plat was filed with the County.
Commissioner Zylla asked if the Commission was really rescinding a legal action.
Chairman Stulberg stated that it did not matter whether it was a legal action or
someone's opinion.
Commissioner Albro asked if the covenant was a part of the action taken on December
6, 1993 by the City Council. He said that conversation that night was not as specific as
what is in the current staff report.
Assistant City Attorney Kaminski stated that information regarding the covenant was
available on December 6, 1993, but the language was very brief.
Commissioner Albro stated that he did not see any difference in the information tonight
as to what was available at previous'meetings. He said the traffic was the main issue
and it would have a significant impact on the neighborhood. He said nothing has
changed and the increase in traffic would be objectionable. He said that the facts that
Carlson Real Estate presented are no better than the opinions presented by others.
MOTION by Commissioner Albro, secandedby Chairman Stulberg to recommend the
rescission of Resolution 93-817 the Land Use Guide Plan Amendment; the rescission of
Resolution 93-818 setting conditions to be met prior to publication of the ordinance
rezoning land; and; the rescission of Ordinance 93-21 to classify certain lands located
at the southeast comer of Carlson Parkway and I-494, subject to all conditions listed in
the January 18, 1994 staff report.
Planning Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Page 12
Commissioner Zylla stated that the planning Commission had previously -examined this
request thoroughly. He said he was still a little doubtfid that this was actually rezonert
by the Council action.
Commissioner Witt stated she'ias seen no new evidence and she supports the
rescission. She said it an unfortunate circumstance that it was approved previously
by. the Council.
Associate Planner Keho read the two resolutions and the ordinance items recommended
for rescission.
Chairman Stulberg stated that all information ofpublic record bad been considered in
this decision by the Planning Commission.
Roll Call Vote 5 Ayes. Motion to Rescind carried on an unanimous vote.
Chairman Stulberg called a recess at 8:45 p.m. The meeting was reconvened at 8:55
p.m.
ZONING ORDINANCE AMENDMENT REGARDING AUTO SALES IN THE
INDUSTRIAL DISTRICT (94002)
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Chairman Stulberg introduced request by the City to Amend the Zoning Ordinance y
regarding automobile sales in the Industrial District.
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Director Hurlburt reviewed the January 19, 1994 staff report.
Associate Planner Keho stated that the City Council had previously approved a track:'
repair business and Hedberg Aggregates business in this industrial area.
Associate Planner Keho stated that he checked with the State to see what their
regulations were for auto sales. He said that auto dealers were not allowed to sell cars
on Sundays and they would not be allowed in this type of operation. He said that
property owners also could not be involved in the auto sales, that they would have to
lease the space to someone operating this type of sates.
Commissioner Albin how many property notices were sent to surrounding, neighbors of
the industrial site.
Director Hurlburt responded that the Public Hearing notice was published in the
Official City Newspaper but no notices were sent to property owners because the
amendment at this time is to the Zoning Ordinance. If the amendment is approved,
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Page 13
anyone wishing to sell automobiles in the industrial districts would have to submit an
application to the City and go through the established procedures required to obtain a
Conditional Use Permit. At this time, property owners surrounding the site in question
would be notified of the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg stated that anyone requesiipt,.this type of a Conditional Use Permit
could notbe car dealers; that this type of business would only match a seller with a
buyer for a fee.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Gary Rude of 10200 32nd Avenue North, and Mr.
Rick Ponthan of 2634 Rice Creek as the persons who initiated the request for this
change in the Zoning Ordinance.
Mr. Rude stated that he did not have an auto dealership and would not have a dealers
license. He said he would lease space to provide this service. He said that the current
owner of the site he was considering was interested in leasing the space for this type of
operation on Saturdays and Sundays. He said this type of business would operate
somewhat as a flea market does.
Mr. Ponthan stated that this was a new concept for selling vehicles. He said that theywouldonlybeinoperationduringweekenddaylighthoursandnolightswouldbe
installed. He said that theywould, have enough puking on the industrial site they are
considering accommodate customers, and they have planned for security and signage on
the site.
Commissioner Zylla asked if they owned the land and was this type of sales being done
anywhere. else.
Mr. Ponthan said they did not own the site they were considering; they would lease the
site.
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Mr. Rude stated this was being done in California and was also being done in White
Bear lake. He said they would also provide rest room.facilities on the site and all
parking would meet requirements to allow emergency vehicles access.
Chairman Stulberg opened and closed the Public Hearing as no one was present to
speak on the issue.
Commissioner Albro asked if they would allow consignment vehicles from automobile
dealers.
Mr. Rude responded that vehicles would be strictly from private owners.
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Page 14
Commissioner Albro stated that he did not find ibis type of use objectionable, although
he thought that property owners surrounding a site might find it objectionable once a
request had been submitted.
MOTION by Commissioner Zylla, seconded by Commissioner Witt to recommend
approval of the Zoning Ordinance Amendment to allow automobile sales in the
Industrial District, as drafted by staff.
Chairman Stulberg stated that he felt this was an energetic and necessary business
which would help residents get rid of vehicles parked in their yards; but that he
objected to the retail use in an industrial area. He said that a retail use has been
allowed in an industrial area on a one-time basis before, but not on a continuous basis.
He said he believed it was a good idea but not in the industrial area.
Commissioner Stimson stated that she agreed with Chairman Stulberg.
Commissioner Zylla stated that he accepted what Chairman Stulberg said but he felt
that we would not be stampeded with this type of request in the industrial arra.. He
said the site currently under consideration was the former auto auction which was in
use for many years. He said he felt there was a valid need for this type of service and
he was willing to take the risk to reward the entrepreneurial use.
Commissioner Albro stated he would like to see this go forward to see what the
reaction of the public would be. He said he felt the industrial area would be the best
area for this type of use.
Chairman Stuiberg asked if those who lease cars are considered dealers.
Associate Planner Keho stated that he did not check this out with the State.
Chairman Stulberg stated that this would affect every industrial site in the City of
Plymouth.
Commissioner Albro asked why Chairman Stulberg would prefer this use in a
commercial area.
Chairman Stulberg stated that retail sales are allowed in a commercial area.
Commissioner Zylla asked if a Conditional Use Permit could be revoked,
Director Huriburt responded that it could be if the conditions of approval were
violated.
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Planning -Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Page 15
Commissioner Zylla stated that this was unique and if it serves a legitimate public
service with minimal cost, we should allow the public to do this. He said than a
petiticner may or may not get; approval.
Roll Call Vote 3 Ayes. Commissioner Stimson and Chairman Stulberg voted Nay.
Motion passed on a 3 to 2 vote.
OTHER BUSEMS
Director Hurlburt discussed the public forum and that it be incorporated into the
regular meeting rather than prior to the meeting. She suggested that a time limit be set,
and that no action be taken.
Director Hurlburt discussed the Public Hearing times being published on the agendas
and said that since the meetings are now being broadcast live and taped that it would
interrupt the continuity of the meeting if they would have to wait until a scheduled time
for an item. She suggest doing away with the published times on the agenda.
It was the unanimous consensus of all the Commissioners that the public forum be
incorporated into the regular agenda schedule and that the times for public hearing
items be eliminated from the agenda.
Director Hurlburt stated that there would not be a Planning Commission meeting on
February 9, 1994 due to the fact that there would not be a quorum. The City Council
was in the process of appointing new members to the Commission and this would not
be done in time for the February 9 meeting.
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Director Hurlburt stated that she would like to schedule a workshop meeting on
February 16 as orientation for the new members as well as the continuing
Commissioners.
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Chairman Stulberg suggested that Commissioners start thinking about representatives
from this Commission to other Boards.
Commissioner Albro asked if a date had been set for a joint meeting with the City
Council.
Director Hurlburt stated that no date has been set as of yet.
Chairman Stulberg thanked Commissioner Zylla for the true he has spent on the
Planning Commission.
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Planning Commission Minutes
January 26, 1994
Iage 16
Commissioner Zylla stated that he had enjoyed the 6 years he had spent on the
Commission.
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Motion by Commissioner Zylla , seconded by Commissioner Stimson to adjourn the
meeting. i
Vote. 5 Ayes.
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The meeting adjourned at 9:40 p.m:
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