HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 09-22-1993CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSIONMI1MINUTES
SEPTEMBER 22,1993
P1WLIC ED—RUM
A memo from Director Hurlbun was passed out to the Commissioners befoPublicForumthatexplainedtheproposedeventforDawnPtoductions.
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Chairman Stulberg recognized Mr. Don Saari from Dawn Productions.
Mr. Saad spoke to the Commission explaining that he will have a Conditional UsePermitontheOctober13, 1993 Planning Commission Agenda fora Haunted idtobeheldattheDonMetzOrchardat4005highway101Nash, from OctoberHayReid
through October 31, 1993.19,
Mr. Saad stated that when he discussed this event with staff they said thatthe partingsituationcouldbeanissue. He said that he had obtained approval from Len gushRosesfortheuseoftheirparkinglotforsomeadditionalparkingfortheevent: HeaskedtheCommissioniftheycouldanticipateanyproblemswiththisrequestbeforeitisbroughtbeforethePlanningCommissiononOctober13, 1993. He suggested thattheywouldhavesomesignstoinformthepublicofwheretopark; and, if the parkingarraswerefullinformingthepublicthattheywouldhavetoreturnatanothertime.
Chainuan Stulberg stated that the parking would be his main concern and even with theadditional, parking space, the parking situation could still be a problem;.
The regular meeting of the Plymouth Planning Commission was called to order byChairmanMikeStulbergat7:05 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners End Albro, Scott
Syverson, Barb Stimson, Julie Witt, Mike Wigley; andDennisZylla,
MEMBERS ABSENT.• None
STAFF PRESENT., Community Development Director Anne Hurlburt, PublicWorksDirectorFredMoore, Associate Plattner John
Keho, and Planning Secretary Jackie Watson.
APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA:
Motion by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Stimson, to move ItemA., the request by PEC Construction to the top of the agenda.
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Planning Commission Minutes
SeplemberM2 1993
Page 169
Vote. 7 Ayes. Motion carried.
Motion by Commissioner Wigley, seconded by Commissioner Zylla, to approve the
September 8, 1993 Planning Commission Minutes.
Vote. 5 Ayes. Commissioners Witt and Stimson abstained.
FEC CONSTRUCTION (93094)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by PEC 'Construction- for a -Site Plan
Amendment and Variance to allow for expansion of an accessory structure at the
southwest comer of Niagara Late and Medina Road.
Associate Planner Keho reviewed some changes in the request which occurred after the
staff report was prepared and delivered to the Commissioners. He said that a variance
for side yard setbacks is no longer requested and therefpre conditions i'ro. 6 on the
approving resolution could be deleted., and Nos. 1, 2 and 4 on the dv,'.l resolution
could be deleted.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Michael Peters and Mr. Jeff Robers, representing
the pedtioner.
r Mr. Peters said this is just a small entry vestibule to be added to the structure. He
stated that the vestibule would allow them the space needed to instal a sprinkler system
which is inquired by the City Fire Code. He said that there was screening at the rear
of the site.
Commissioner Albro asked if all four levels in the silo were used as exercise rooms:
Mr. Peters replied that there is not much floor space on each level but all are used for
exercise rooms.
Chairman Stulberg asked where they install the sprinkler system if they were denied the
vestibule addition.
Mr. Peters explained that they need the vestibule to house the sprinkler system pipes
and water controls so that they do not freeze in the winter. He stated that they aro
stuck if they cannot add thri vestibule and they would be unable to add,the sprinkler
system.
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Planning Commission Minutes
September 22, 1993
Page 170
MOTION by Commissioner Zylla, seconded by Commissioner Wigley, to recommend
approval of the request by FEC Construction for a Site Plan Amendment for propertylocatedat2765NnrgamLane; and, to eliminate Condition No. 6 from the approving
resolution, subject to the remaining conditions of the September 14, 1993 staff report.
MOTION to Amend by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Stimson to
amend Condition No. 4 stating that any "additional" signage must be in compliance
with the Ordinance.
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Amend. 7 Ayes. Motion carried on an unanimous vote.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion. 7 Ayes. Motion carried.
ROTTLUND HOMES (93055)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Rottlund Homes for an Amended MPUD
Preliminary Plan/Plat and Conditional Use Permit for Pintail Villas for 144 attached
units on 11.77 acres located east of Shenandoah lane and 22nd Avenue North.
Associate Planner Keho reviewed the September 13, 1993 staff report.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Donald Jensen, representing the petitioner.
Mr. Jensen discussed the history of their proposal before the Planning Commission and
City Council. He displayed graphics showing the parking stalls available for the many
units. There are locations on the plans where up to 97 additional parking spaces could
be added if needed. He said that 16 units will have 2car garages. He described the
building types proposed for the development, stating that the requested 25 foot setback
was to the internal street only. He said the; grass fire lanes are proposed and that theyhavebeenworkingwithFiteDepartmentonthisplan. He said that the fire lanes will
be plowed in the winter time. He said that all buildings would have fire sprinklers,
curb and gutter would be installed, and, all private drives would be reinforced.
Mr. Jensen discussed the drainage plan and stated that they agreed with staffs
conditions regarding this.
Commissioner Wigley asked whether the Homeowners Association Document Would
contain language regarding the Proof -of -Parking Plan for the 97 additional parkingspaces.
Mr. Jensen stated this would have to be added as an addendum to the HOA Document.
Chairman Stulberg noted that item No. 13 in the staff report should he changed to read6144" dwelling units.
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Planning. Commission Minutes
September 22, 1993
Page 171
Mr. Jensen asked that they be allowed to submit building permit appEcations as soon as
the Final Plat was filed with the County as they had the receipt, without having to wait
until the County returned the filing card to the City.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Larry Laukka of Laukka-WilliamsParkers Lake.
Mr. Laukka stated that this proposal was the wrong product on the wrong site. He said
this project does not meet the test of variety for the entire development. He discussed
the Proof -of -Parking and the use of the garage aprons by Rottlund stating that he was
not allowed to use the garage aprons for his developments. He stated the count is
wrong and the parking is short by 24 parking spaces. He said that the 25 foot setback
from the building wall is incorrect because when there is a fence or a wall this reduces
the setback to around 15 feet. He pointed out on the display where the setbacks would
be less than what the developer has proposed. He said that this site is "crunched" by
the placement of the units; the density has yet to be served; the variety is not served;
and, proof -of parking is not served, nor the required number of parking spaces
required. He said this plan would negatively impact his development as it has no
sensitivity. He showed his own plan of how he would place 168 units of
condominiums on this site. He said the condominiums on his plan would provide
variety and more open space.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Arin Wetzel, of 2020D Shenandoah Court.
Ms. Wetzel stated that she lives in the Parkers Lake Development and would like to see
the quality and the diversity maintained in the development.
Chairman Stulberg closed the Public Hearing.
Mr. Jensen stated that diversity was a hypothetical term. He said that the Rottlund
homes are unique and are copyrighted and cannot be duplicated by any other builder.
He discussed the good resale value of the Rottlund homes. He said that home
ownership of these homes does offer diversity. Mr. Jensen stated that staff had agreed
that the setbacks met the code. He said the landscaping plan was aggressive, 2 1/2
trees per dwelling unit, plus shrubbery, along with a graceful signage entry plan with
berating which would hide garage doors. He stated that this plan has met the tests of
the Council and staff.
Commissioner Wigley asked how many parking spaces the plan was shod,
Associate Planner Keho stated it was short 16 parking spaces, He staled that the 25
foot setback was measured from the !building, and did not take the fence into
consideration,
Commissioner Zytla asked what changes werr made from the earlier plans.
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September 22,193
Page 172
Mr. Jensen stated that the earlier floor plan did not have the lofted ceiling space. He
said they raised the roof to allow for 2 story living, but the pads -are similar.
Commissioner Zylla asked where the additional 16 parking spaces could be added.
Mr. Jensen discussed the areas where the spaces could be placed, but stated that the
parking requirements are aggressive, and probably would never be needed in a
development such as this one.
Mr. Jensen deectibed the Take Camelot Development and the parking in that
development, which is less than what is required here. He said there have never been
any problems there, and that "over parking" a neighborhood should not be a
requirement if the spaces are not needed. He said that they should be able to count the
space in front of the two car garages.
Chairman Smlberg stated that this parking requirement has been used in other
neighborhoods.
Commissioner Stimson stated that the lake Camelot development has never had a
pig problem.
Commissioner Albro asked for an explanation of the issue on the 25 toot setback, with
the extra fence requirements.
Associate Planner Keho stated fencing in front yards can only be 3 feet tall and that the
setback should have been measured from the fence.
Mr. Jensen stated that the fence issue could be adjusted.
Director Hurlburt asked if the decks would protrude into the setback area.
Mr. Jensen staled that there were no flecks proposed, just concrete patios..
Associate Planner Keho stated that a concrete slab which protrudes into the setback
would not be an issue.
Associate Planner Keho showed that if a concrete patio was in the front yard with a 6
foot wall, the setback would have to be 25 feet from the wall; but, if the watt was
reduced to 3 feet then the setback would be measured to the building structure.
MOTION by Commissioner Zylla, seconded by Commissioner Wigley to recommend
approval of the request by Rottiund Homes for an Amended WUD Preliminary
Plan/Plat and Conditional Use Permit for Pintail Villas for 144 attached units on 11.77
acres located east of Shenandoah Jane and 22nd Avenue North, subject to all
conditions listed in the September 13, 1993 staff report.
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planning Commission Minutes
September 22, 1993
Page 173
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Wigley, seconded by Commissioner Zylla, to
add a condition specifying that 25 foot setbacks would be allowed.
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Amend, 7 Ayes.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Albin, seconded by Commissioner Wigley to
change Condition 15 to mad that proof of parking would be required for all 113 spaces.
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Amend. 7 Ayes.
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Commissioner Stimson stated that she believed this PUD did not fit the overall mandate
of variety, and she preferred:that a much higher density be placed on this site.
Commissioner Witt stated that this plan was just too different, and, that a higber
density should be placed on the site.
Commissioner Zylla commented that he did not feel the verbiage describing this plan as
the wrong plan on wrong site was a judgment he could agree with. He said that no one
can predict what product may be the right product. He said he found the "crunch"
statement intriguing when the original plan for 116 units was denied based on the
recommendation that a higher density be placed on the site and now that the density has
been increased the developer is accused of crunching too many units on the site. i
Commissioner Wigley stated this pmject does add variety to the PUD and is different.
from anything"else in this development. He said he liked the earlier plan of 116 units
better, but he still liked this plan:
Commissioner Albin stated that Rottlund Homes has been responsive to the Council
and the Commission concerns, but he did not feel this plan fits the high density
designated for the site as would an apartment building. ;
Commissioner Wigley stated that the midpoint for this site was missed by 22 units.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion. 3 Ayes, Commissioners Albro, Stimson, Witt and
Chairman Stulberg voted Nay. Motion failed on a 34 vote..
Chairman Stulberg stated that his Nay vote reflected his feeling that the density issue
has not been met.
MOTION to deny by Chairman Stulberg,seconded by Commissioner Stimson to deny
the request by Rottlund Homes,
Chairman Stulberg stated that his reason for recommending denial of the request was
because the density requirement had not been met,
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Planning Commission Minutes
September 22, 1993
Page 174
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Deny. 4 Ayes, Commissioners Syverson, Zylla and
Wigley voted Aye. Motion to Deny carried on a 4-3 vote.
Chairman Stulberg called a recess at 8:30 p.m. The meeting reconvened at 8:40 p.m.
PRBNEBURDERS, INC. (93091)
Chairman Stulberg 'introduced the request by Prime Builders, Inc. for a Lot
Consolidation, Site Plan, Variance, and Conditional Use Permit for a 36 unit multi-
family project at the southwest intersection of 44th Avenue North and Trenton lane..
Associate Planner Keho reviewed the September 14; 1993 staff report.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. John Devries, representing the petitioner.
Mr. Devries stated that they had met with the Sagamore Association stating that this
Association had control over what was built on this site. He said that Association
needs 100 percent approval of its membership for any changes to the site. He said this
project would be a homeowner owned project. He said the other developments in the
area are not served by public streets, and a public street would not work on this site.
He said they Have worked with the Fire Department regarding the sheet access for
emergency vehicles. He explained that the increased lot coverage insulted from the
plan for covered 2 car garages. He said that there would be an interior sprinkler
system and a lawn sprinkler system. He said that possibly the only objections to the
project would come from the nearby Woodlands Addition which was a single family
development.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Wilbur Sheets, of 4385 Trenton Lane North.
Mr. Sheets stated that he lived in Sagamore and was speaking for most of residents who
were in favor of this proposal because of the reduction in the number of units proposed,
which would reduce the amount of traffic in the area. He requested that variance also
be approved. He explained how the vote of each association must be to approve the
project.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Londa England, of 10600 Ord Avenue North.
Ms. England stated that she and others in the audience were in favor of the project.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Tint Hall, of 10750 Rockford Road.
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planning Commission Minutes.
Sq tcmber22,1993
page 175
Mr. Hail stated that this project will enhance the area and increase the value of the
existing homes.
Chairman SUdbeerg introduced Mr. Lester Nelson, of 4465 Trenton lane.
Mr.Nelson stated that he lives next to proposed project and is in favor of the proposal
Chairman Stuiberb introduced Mr. Bob Paulson, of 10630 Rockford Road.
Mr. Paulson stated that he was in favor of the reduced density in this Proposal -
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Norm Severson, of 1072545th Avenue North.
Mr. Severson stated that he was speaking regarding Lots 9 and 10. He said these unitswereonly19feetfromthepropertyline, and were too close to his bedroom. He saidhewouldliketoseeafenceerectedinthisareaandthebuildingmovedback. He saidhishomehewasbasicallyinfavoroftheproposalbutwouldlikemorespacebetween
and the nearest building.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Irene Schackman, of 10630 Rockford Road..
Ms. Scbarlmran stated that she did not feel this project conformed with the SagamoreDeedofDeclaration. She said that some of the grass area will be taken away, and, the
style would be different from :what is already present.
Chairman Smlberg closed the Public Hearing.
Mr. Devries stated that he could buffer between the closest building with a fence. Other neighbors stated that they would like fu tras a buffer. The best buffer wouldbea6footfenceonthehigherelevationof6eesfootpinetreesevery8feet, with a acedarfence. He said that moving the building back further would not be possible
because it would not allow enough room for the emergency access vehicles.
Chairman Stalberg stated that the City cannot get involved in the HOA requirements.
Mr. Devries explained that each lot has its own Association which is a part of a MasterAssociation. He said that be has worked with an attorney to ensure they were meeting
the Association requirements.
Commissioner Wigley asked whether the 18 1/2 foot setback to the private street at
44th Avenue North would create any problems for the City.
Director Moore replied that this would not be a problem for the City.
Commissioner Witt stated that the drainage into the Woodlands Addition was a concern
of hers.
Planning Commission Minutes
SWemberA 1993
Page 176
Mr. Devides explained the sits drainage plan. He said the plan would be to keep the
drainage away from existing sites and that them would be less drainage when the site is
completed.
MOTION by Commissioner Wigley, seconded by Commissioner Witt to recommend
approval of the request by Prime Builders, Inc. for a Lot Consolidation, Site Plan,
Variance, and Conditional Use Permit for a 36 unit multi -family project at the
southwest intersection of 44th Avenue North and Twnton Lane, subject to all
conditions listed in the September 14, 1993 staff report.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Wigley, seconded by Chairman Stulberg to add
a condition stating that the petitioner shall provide screening consisting of fence with
evergreen trees between the Woodlands Addition and this project, to be approved by
staff and the City Forester.
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Amend. 7 Ayes.
Commissioner Albro stated that the private drive was not consistent with some past
proposals whemprivate drives were denied.
Chaimum Stulberg stated that the private drive was in keeping with the restt of this site
that has been developed.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion. 7 Ayes. Motion carried on an unanimous vote.
GREAT MIDWEST CONSTRUCTION, INC. (93693)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Great Midwest Construction, Inc. for a
Land Use Guide Plan Amendment to reguide 7.4 acres from CL to LA -4; Rezoning
from B-1. to R-4; Lot Consolidation; Site Plan; and Conditional Use Permit for a 60
unit apartment complex at the southeast comer of 34th Avenue North and Harbor Lane.
Associate Planner Keho reviewed the September 14, 1993.
Chairman Stulberg asked flow records could be ]rept that referred to the 75 foot setback
the developer would mitigate to lessen the impact on the adjacent commercial site.
Associate Planter Keho stated this information would be kept on file with the City.
Commissioner Wigley asked if this development would result in the creation of some
isolated, lots without access. He said it looked like some of tho vacant commercial
parcels would have to exit onto 34th Avenue North or Harbor Lane, if they could not
have access onto Fembmok Lane,
planning Commission bfinutes
September22,1993
Page 177
Director Moore stated that access is not prohibited onto collector streets for commercial
sites and therefore access onto Fembrook Lane would be allowed..
Commissioner Zylla asked if this proposal met the LA -4 density requirements.
Associate Flamer Keho slated that this proposal is slightly under the LA -4 density.
Commissioner Zylla asked if we have come away from requiring the minimum density
for proposals, and said this plan was more lice LA-3-
Associate
A3.
Associate Planner Bebo stated fast this plan does meet the ted of LA4 requirements.
Chairman Sudberg introduced Mr. Ben Issacson, representing the petitioner.
Mr. Issaeson stated that this request as LA4 was done because of the square footage
area, and because the site is close to other LA -4 areas. He said that the buffdin3exteriorswouldbesimilartoLancasterVillage. He said the parking -would -meet
requirements. He said they have increased the landscaping above what is required.
Some of the units will appeal to senior citizens and will provide them with affordable
rental housing.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Thomas Chesness, of 3235 Fembrook Lane.
Mr. Chesness stated that he knew that the site adjoining his property was to be
commercial and he would not have purchased his home if he thought it might be
developed as high density. He said he is opposed to the change in zoning.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. James Levigne, of 3225 Fembrook Lane.
Mr. Levigne stated he is opposed the rezoning of this site frcm commercial to high
density residential, He said it would be unfair to him as a homeowner.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Thomas Reiersgord, of 4500 West 44th Street,
Minneapolis.
Mr. Reiersgord stated be owns one of the sites south of the proposed site. lie said thatthisisoneoftheprimeareasofPlymouthforoffice/commercial development. He saidthatthiscommercialareaneedstohavethissiteremainascommercialtomaintainthesizeofthiscommercialarcaforfuturedevelopment. He said it would not be good for
a apartment complex to be adjacent to a commercial area.
Chairman Stulberg closed the Public Hearing.
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Planning Commission Minutes
September 22, 1993
Page 178
CommissEoner Zylla asked if the larcels of land between this site and Fembrook Lane
would be developable as commercial sites.
Associate Planner Koho stated that they could be developed as commercial sites, j
although the 75 foot setback requirements from the residential site could impact these
sites.
M07TON by Commissioner Wigley, seconded by Commissioner Albro, to recommend
denial of the request by Great Midwest Construction, Inc. based. on the finding that the
request does not meet the 8 criteria requited for a Land Use Guide Plan Amendment.
Commissioner Albro stated that he felt the existing CL guiding was appropriate for this
site.
Chairman Stulberg stated that a change in the guiding from CL to LAMA would
negatively impact development of adjoining property arid the site could be developed;
reasonably under purrentguiding.
Mr. Issaeson askedtheCommission if they would consider withdrawing the motion and
consider a motion to table this request until he could meet with some of the adjoining
property owners.
C6mmiaEionerS Wigley and Albro withdrew their motion.
M01TON by Commissioner Albro, seconded by Commissioner Stimson to table the
request by Great Midwest Construction, Inc, until the next Planning Commission
meeting (October 13, 19Q3).
Roll Call Vole. 5 Ayes, Commissioner Wigley and Chairman Stulberg voted Nay.
Chairman Stulberg stated that his Nay vote was because the request was to do
something specific and tabling is not that.
CHERRY HILL BUILDERS (93095)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Cherry Hill Builders for 'a Site Plan,
Conditional Use Permit, Final Plat and Variances for a 66 unit multi -family complex at
the north side of 10th Avenue North, 1 block east of South Shore Drive.
Associate Planner Keho reviewed the September 10, 1993 staff report,
Commissioner Wigley asked why a variance was needed for parking spaces.
Associate Planner Keho stated that the variance was needed for several parking spaces
to be placed on the lot line,
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Planning Commission Minutes
September 22,1993
Page 179
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Greg Frank, representing the petitioner.
Mr. Frank described the changes in this plan from earlier approved plans on the site.
Hs stated that the private drives have been graded and would be preferred by the type
of prospective owners of these units.
Chaimlan Stulberg opened the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Yohn Prebarul, of 1070011th Avenue North
Mr. Prebaml stated that there was a drainage problem at the southwest comer which
affects his rear yard. He said that the drainage pipe is too high to accommodate his
yard. He said he was also concerted with the plan for the setbacks along hisproperty
line.
Chairman Stulberg closed the Public Hearing.
Mr. Frank stated that the proposed setbacks along the Prebaml property were 30 feet.
He said that they would look at the drainage problems.
Director Moore discussed the low depression on the southern site.
Mr. Pteband stated that fill has been brought into this area in the past couple years and
this has created the problem.
M017ON by Commissioner Zylla, seconded by Commissioner Wigley, to recommend
approval of the request by Cherry Hill Builders for a Site Plan, Conditional Use
Permit, and Variances for a 66 unit multi -family complex at the north side of 10th
Avenue Worth, 1 block east of South Shore Drive, -subject to all conditions listed in the
September 10, 1993 staff report.
Roll Call Vote, 7 Ayes. Motion carried on an unanimous vote;
MOTION Commissioner Zylla, seconded by Commissioner' Wigley, to recommend
approval of the Final Plat and Resolution Setting Conditions to be Met Prior to Filing
of the Final Plat for Cherry Hill Builders.
Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. Motion carried on an unanimous vote.
Chairman,Stulberg called a recess at 10:03 p,m. The meeting reconvened at 10:10
p.m.
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September 22, 1993
Page 180
BATON CORPORATION (92113)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Baton: Corporation for PUD Flexibility in
the 'Shoreland Overlay Management District; and, an Amended PUD Preliminary
Phut/Plat and Conditional Use Permit for 10 single family lots and 18 twirhomes, and
a Subdivision Variance for cul-de-sac length, located southeast of Larch lane and Old
Rockford Road.
Assodate Planner Keho reviewed the September 16, 1993 staff report.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mf. Richard Zejdlik, representing the petitioner.
M. Zejdlik stated that the staff report covered the majority of what the plan proposes.
He said he wanted to discuss the additional 10 foot setback required to the wetlands but
would try'to work this additional setback out when he redesigned the plan. He said that
the landscaping Plan will be submitted with the Final Plat. He said that the erosion
and sedimentation items require a great deal of planning, and would be handled by the
City along with various agencies. The cul-de-sac issue for a shorter cul-de-sac would
create some problems.
Commissioner Wigley stated that City Council directed that Baton Corporation respond
to the 13 items listed in the Resolution regarding the BAW, and Baton has not
responded. He asked why the Commission was discussing the issue without a new
plan.
Me. Zeldlik stated that most of the items will have little effect on the plan. The most
impact on the plan will be from the sedimentation plan.. He stated that he woults meet
all the conditions listed in the BAW resolution. He said that the timing was very short
to have had to prepare the new plan, and that it was easier to go ahead and accept the
all the conditions: He repeated that all the changes will be minor to the plans.
Chairman Stulberg opened the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg entered correspondence received by the City from David Priebe, of
3825 Focestview Lane into the record: He entered correspondence into the record
which was received by the Planning Commissioners at their homes from Bob Donley as
a representative for the Save French Wetlands and Woodlands Association.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr, Bob Donley of 11740 38th Avenue North,
Mr. Donley stated that he wondered why we were here tonight, The petitioner has not
submitted the revisions to his plans as directed by the City Council, He said the plans
throughout the past four years have changed very little, Mr. Donley stated that the
project is not appropriate for this site. He reviewed the Concept Platt approval and
how the plan has changed very little from the previously denied plan, He stated that
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Planning Commission M mites
September 22,1993
Pagetfir
this request would be injurious and detrimental; and, the variance would make an
excessive impact on existing property owners. He discussed how much closer the
single family homes will be to the existing homes as compared to the original
condominium plan. He said the condominiums would have less impact on the
environment. He discussed the loss of open space for the existing homes due to plan
changes from condominiums to single family.homes. He stated that there were no
provisions in the plan to guarantee that ti tum homeowners would not destroy the
existing trees in their back yards. He said that the trail system would be hazardous in
this area as it would traverse secluded and steep areas. He said the long cul-de-sac
proposed would be destructive to the natural features of the site. He discussed his char
noting tree loss comparing 25 foot and 35 foot setbacks.
Mr. Donley stated that this site is difficult to develop, the plan does not show any plan
to conserve the site. He compared the 1991 plan which was denied with the present
1992 plan.
Mr. D;mley presented and discussed a list of questions he presented the Planning
Commission which was entered into the mcord.
Chairmao Stulberg introduced and mad into the record a letter presented to the
Planning'.:Commission from Randall Begin, of 12305 Old Rockford Road. 'The letter
spoke in favor of the proposed development.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Carol Fritsch, of 4203 Hemlock Lane.
Ms. Fritch discussed her enjoyment of the wetlands and wildlife and her totem for
the FrencS Wetlands.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Sharon Meister, of 3615 Evergreen Lane.
Ms. Meister stated that the developer should be required to use setbacks of 10 feet from
any wetland. She said she thought the storm water drainage plan was inadequate; that
the applicant was not proposing to meet the DNR bluff setback; and, that the Keystone
wall on the plan would not permitted by the DNR. She said that this area is
ecologically sensitive and needs to be preserved.
Commissioner Wigley asked Ms. Meister how much money she had personally donated
to the Save French Wetlands Association. He said he was interested in knowing how
much money had been contributed by those opposing this development.
Ms. Meister stated that she chose not to respond to the question,
Cheimtan Stulberg introduced Mr. and Mrs. Dick Milner, of 2355 Jonquil Lane. The
Milners stated titat they were opposed to any consideration that the City buy this area
For park land, They stated that French Park is big enough and another park would be
costly and is not needed.
Planning Commission Minutes
September 22, 1993
Page 192
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Mary Norstad, of 4075 Goldenrodlane.
Ms. Norstad asked whether the letter sent to the City by Michaal Ricci, Jr. of 4095
Goldenrod Lane had been given the Commissioners.
Ile letter was distributed to the Commissioners and entered into the record. The letter
hum Mr. Ricci discussed the findings of the Environmental Assessment Worksheet and
the failure of this proposed plan to meet those findings.
Ms. Norstad encouraged the Commissioners to look ahead twenty years to visualize
what the impact of this development will have.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ma Ken Neutgens, of 14407 County, Road 6.
Mr. Neutgens stated that he felt the homeowners should work with the developer to
overcome the obstacles for this development. He said that homeowners themselves are
biggest polluters and not development.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Rita O'Donnell, of 12105 dist Avenue North.
Ms. O'Donnell stated that she would respond to Commissioner Wigley's question as to
how much she has contributed 4o this project. Her response was that she had donated
the List 11/2 years to this project to ensure that it conformed with all State and Federal
regulations. She stated that the flaws found in the RAW were a resitlt of her research
and investigation. She described the plans to raise funds for the purchase this land, but
stated that it is a slow process. She discussed the 14 conditions to be met by the
developer as a result of the revised 13AW. She discussed her concerns regarding the
wildlife; slopes; the reality of there being only 10 buildable acres out of the 26 acres;
the ShorelandOverlay Management District's 1,000 foot zone; the discrepancy of the
tennis court elimination; the 10 foot setback is improper —DNR recommended a buffer
from the edge of the wetlands to the top of the slope, otherwise a 50 foot setback would
be required; and the inadequate sedimentation plan.
Ms. O'Donnell discussed discrepancies regarding the.Shoreland Management District
and the fact that this has not yet been reviewed by the DNR. She said that she does not
feel the applicant has agreed to meet all the conditions mandated by the approval of the
RAW as there were no revised plans prepared,
Commissioner Witt asked Ms. O'Donnell whether she preferred the original
condominium plan rather than this proposed plan,
Ms. O'Donnell stated that her concern was just preserving the environment. She stated
the developer was willing to build a tennis court but not sedimentation pond; and that
the developer wanted a blank check from the City. She said she felt that. Mr, Zejdlik
Planning.Conunission Nnutes
September22,1993
Paget$y
should have presented more of his plan before the public spoke. He should not have
asked to respond to concerns after the public had spoken.
Chairman Stulberg stated there is not a rebuttal period in a Public hearing. The
petitioner is just required to respond to any questions raised during the Public Hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. David Priebe, of 3825 Forestview lane.
Mr. Priebe stated that most of the homeowners in this area bought their homes
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believing that this portion of the PUD would not be developed. He stated he opposed y
the cul-de-sac variance, and was concerted that the emergency access was not the best n
plan.
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Chairman Stulberg called a recess at 12:10 a.m.. The meeting reconvened at 12:15 i
c
Commissioner Zylla stepped down from the table.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. Marlin Sjaarda, of 11720 3Jth Avenue North.
Mr. Sjaarda stated that it was unfortunate that there was not a plan to review. He said
that cul-de-sac length variance would not stop the developer from developing the site
and that the southern portion of the site was the area causing the most significant
problems. He asked why the City had ordinance that allowed so many exceptions. He
said that there is no place on this proposed cul-de-sac for vehicles to move out of the
way.
Mr. Sjaarda stated that the trail system emergency vehicle access to 36th Avenue North
was a concern. People have a tendency to park on the streets, to gain access to the
park, which creates a nuisance along with debris being left on Forestview lane. He r
said this area provided the closest free access to French Park. He suggestedthat the
City consider not requiring; trail access in this area as there is already enough access to
the park. He asked that the Planning Commission deny the plan or table the item; or,
address the cul-de-sac length and setbacks and look at the floor elevations.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mr. harry Vogen; 12055 41st Avenue North,
Mr. Vogen stated that the cul-de-sac length creates technical issues and he would prefer
that this site not be developed. He said he thought that those people who signed
petitions could come up with the money to purchase the site.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ms. Carole Rydberg, of 3225 Wellington Une.
Ms. Rydberg stated that she feared, that this development would cause damage to
French Park. She discussed the impervious surface and the resulting damage created
by the runoff flowing into streams. She said that the City needed to accept
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Planning Commission Minutes
September 22, 1993
Page 184
responsibility to keep water on the site, not running into the storm water drainage
system. She asked that the Commission tell the developer that the land is
undevelopable.
Chairman Stuiberg introduced George Daniels, of 1865 Black Oaks Lane.
Mr. Daniels stated that he did not think this was a good presentation, and there shmdd
have had been some professimud plans to review. He said that 3 years is a long time
for this development to have Wren, and it is time to make a decision on this proposal.
He said he had not heard anyone say "Let's Mitigate". Nobody seems to do anything,
they only are trying to bold things up. He stated that he talked to Hennepin Parks and
they told him that they were not interested in purchasing this site. He said all the issues
have been questioned. He concluded that most of the trees were new growth that he
could see from looking at older pictures of the site. He said that most polluted runoff
comes from the existing homes. He asked that the City make a decision on this item
now. He said be felt the public only wants to find enough technical issues to stall the
project.
Chairman Stullirg introduced Ms. Ginny Black, of 11410 49th Place North.
1,1s. Black stated that tfie Planning Commission should see the issues raised by the
aAW in a plan before acting upon the issue. She staled that it is up to the.public to
stop the loopholes in the ordinance. She said the citizens should have the right to
comment on the revised plans.
Chairman Stulberg recognized introduce Mr. Bob Donley
Mr. Donley slated'that he had not ever stated at an earlier meeting that all he wanted in
this area was a park. He said they are not promoting a park, they only want to do what
is best for this site.
The Phuming Secretary reviewed the February 24, 1993 meeting; tapes and found that
Mr. Donley was misquoted on the minutes. This reference was removed from the
February 24, 1993 minutes.
Chairman Stulberg closed the Public Hearing.
Director Moore discussed the ordinary High Water,kark of 89.81. He said a surveyor
would have M survey the service road. He said the acceptable grade for an emergency
road is 7. % for a city street, the trail could be 7-9% and would follow the lay of the
land. He said this emergency road plan was not in the area of the 30% slope: He said
an emergency road was 10 feet wide with 1 foot on either side cleared of all
obstructions.
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Planning Commission Minutes
September 22,1993
Page 185
Mr. Zejdlik stated that he did not have any figures regarding trees saved by the 25 foot
setback versus 35 feet and has no figures by lot.. He said he could not refute the
figured discussed by Mr. Donley.
Mr. 2:ejdlik showed a blowup of the topography of the area. He said the DNR does
not prohibit building in the Shorehind Overlay District but there are restrictions. He
said it was difficult to measure the distance from the lake.
Mr. Zejdlik discussed the ground floor elevations of single family homes stating that
the condominium building was 995 feet; and, to the cast the single family home at the
peak of the roof was 965 feet.
Director Moore stated that the high point of the street of 941 feet would make the
highest house elevation about 948 feet.
Director Moore discussed the effectiveness of sump sedimentation as compared to a -
nutrient pond. He said the Homeowners Association would be responsible for the
maintenance of the sedimentation system where it required on the site; if the City
were to adopt an overall plan in the future, and charge a fee, then 5e City would
maintain the system.
Associate Planner Keho stated Baton Corporation had stated that they would eliminate
any homes located in the bluff setback area.
Associate Planner Keho stated that the trail from 38th Avenue North does go between
the houses but the trail was placed as City staff proposed. He said the 10 foot wetland
buffer setback was suggested by the DNR in the SAW. He said the outiot strip is still
owned by Raton Corporation but would become the property of the Homeowners
Association
Mr. Zejdlik showed pictures of the site from 1962 when development began. He said
that Mission Partners did not develop the land so the trees grew up. He said the pond
was a northern rearing pond but was abandoned by the DNR; then Mission Partners
went in and flooded the dried up pond.
Mr. Zejdlik offered to move and replace any trees destroyed during development. lie
stated that interested parties :should either buy the land or allow him to go ahead with
development. He said he lives in the Mission PUD and if this area remained park land
it would benefit his own home.
Commissioner Albro asked where the buffer area Would be located in Outlot A.
Associate Planner Keho stated that the buffer area starts from the rear lot line, 50 feet
in, in addition to the outlot.
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Planning Commission Minutes
September22,1993
Page 186
Director Moore stated that the developer bad stated he was prepared to preserve the 50
foot buffer area. He said that the outlot would not be touched, and in addition there
would be additional rear yards included in a covenant which could not be touched by
the developer.
MOTION by Commissioner Wigley, seconded by Commissioner Stimson, to
recommend approval of the request by Baton Corporation :for PUD Flexibility in the
Shoreland Overlay Management District; and, an Amended PUD Pref'' Plan!Plat F
and Conditional Use Permit for 10 single family lots and 18 twinhomes, and a
Subdivision Variance for cul-de-sac length, located southeast of Larch Lane and Old i
Rockford Road.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Wigley, seconded by Chairman Stulberg to .
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recommend that the Final Plat come back to the Planting Commission for review; that
a representative selected by the Save the French Wetlands and Woodlands Association
be allowed to speak on the request; that any other speakers be allowed 5 minutes, for a
total time allowed of l hour, and, that a detailed landscaping plan be presented with the
Final Plat.
Roll Call Vote on Motion to Amend. 6 Ayes. Motion carried.
Commissioner Albto stated that he is against the project because of the long cul-de-sac
and land that will be destroyed because of it; and, because of the 3 houses 'on'the
northeast portion of the site which back up to the wetlands. He said that he thought
more could be done to preserve the amenities existing on the site.
Commissioner Stimson stated the she felt the developer was willing to do what ever is
asked of them to proceed with the development of the site.
Roll Call Vote on Main Motion. 5 Ayes, Commissioner Albro voted Nay. Motion
carried on a 5-1 vote.
The meeting adjourned at 1:50 a.m.
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