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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 11-06-1985CITY OF PLYMOUTH PIANN04C NOVEMBER198 The regular Meetinq of the Plymouth Planninq Cfmmission was walled to order~ at P.M. NEMERSP NT' ha rman reigerwal.d Commissioners Maqnus, Stulberg, Pauba. Commissioner Hellon arrived at 8*-15 P.M. WMBERS ABSENT: Commissioners Wire and P, of a STAFF PRESENT. Community Development Cootdtnator Sara lconri City 1`Gq neer Sherm Goldberg Community Development Secretary Grace Wineman CONSENT AGENDA AND BUTES MOTION by Commissioner Magnus se Waded by Commissioner Pauba CONSENT AGENDA to recommend approval of the Consent Agenda with no deletions. VOTE 4 ryes. Commissioner Stulberg abstained from the vote on the Minutes MOTION carried. MjttUTFSMOTI0114bC ' mi_ nor t-tominu "o ed by Cow_ issioner Pauba OF OCTOBER to recommend approval of the October 231, 1985 Minutes as 23, 1985 submitted. VST,f1* 4 Ayes;Commissioner tv!herq abstained. VOTE M T M CARRIED PUBLIC HEARINGS Cha!rinan tei erwal.d introduced the request by Saul Segal,, SAUL SEGAL Ento -prise Properties and requested an ,)verview Of the Onto- ENTERPRISE PROPERTIES, ber Z3$ 1985 staff report by Coordinator Cont aardi:na PUi} CONCEPT PLAR for ticConn also explained the Planned Unit Development PRELIMINARY PLAMiTLAT review and the combination of requests being considered, REZONING, CONDITION& USE PERMIT,, VARIANCE hairmar Stei erwa'd inquired about the preliminary reports IVY PSK II from the Department of Natural Resources MR) relative to , 84057) wetl.an ,. Coordipator McConn e plain d that 3udy Boudreau, DNR reviewed the application and preliminarily identified the W.41t Water Elevation of 913 for protected wetlands. She farther explained that additional low land in this area is riot part of a protected wetla:=gid* She noted that these ponds , are not part of theCity's Stormy later Drainage SYstem. Chairman 5tei erwald intrujueo Mr. Frari, liagen, 7415 Way at.i Blvd, representing the petit onar. Patine 744 Plannino commission Minutes Mr. thigen explained the development plan and that this is all infill ` development surrounded by areas known as "Rolling l-li `lls", "'Skyline ills" and "Nathan, Trails". He e p.lAlled the topography and that they intend to retail) the natural ponding: area in the norther: , part of the site. lie staged the plans art- responsive to the environmental, constraints by retention of the natural areas and that encroachment Into the natural arias is minimal. He explained that infill development Is desirable and meets the guidelines of the Metropolltah Urban Service Area and Pl ou h*s, Comprehensive Plan which is approved b the Metropolitan CourtAil. Chairman Stedgerwald stated he had walked the site and In- uired about the Prada rrc and f i 11 ink to occur on the rtorth- east side and southwest corner of the property. fir- Hagen stated tree northeast side has scattered trees and as many of these trees as possible will he maintained. The;gradinc plan proposes to Install the house pads, rear yard areas will lig urctouched on the north side. There will he qradinq w th 'Oerming along, Schmidt Labe Road., He stated the grad nil on the west will he confined to housing pads only with no grading, at the rear of the lots Chairman Stelgerwald inquired about the are -3a adjacent to Rolling Hills Park that have standirig, eater n al. Proposed Lots 6t 71, 81 and 9. Mr, ,Marlen ` stated this area will be left In Its natural stag for the most part. He explained that the wa qr in the area has been unnatural.l.y high due tk) debris' that has acted as a dam, Pluqqing the upstre str storm eater drainageway* Chairman Steitlerwald opened the Public Heard ng,, Marlon Bohnsa k, 330 Zinnia bane N., s, atod she does not live in the immediate area bot is Info on this request and wants to share what she and her newqnbors experienced during the development phases of their neighborhood. Sero s atad it Is Imperative that the Commtssi.on consider the marshland; that construction of County goad 61 ;came through a DNR controlled area against the wisnes of the area resi- dents* si- dents* ttra much of the natural terrain and cover for the wildlife was destroyed and tha C once natural areas are tampered with they hover return to their original state. fan Ferner, 4835 Quaker ,Nene, stayed that the development of Rollingn Hills Park did damage to the area, and that neer, the only wildlife or natural area Is on the property proposed for development. He is opposed to building homes around the pond and that the development will require fill - Ing of they southern ret area. lie st ited that he lives at the southeast corner of the d veldpmen'z where much fill will he required because of the standing water. age 245 P14aninq Commission Minutes November 6, Terry l"I ll bridge j 4825 Trenton Dano, inquired shy the developer's representative is avoiding the Issue of the high eater behind his tome that will affectthe proposed Lots, 70 and 9. of Block I Connie Liltibrid e, 4825 Trenton Lane, stated her concern for the plant and wildlife. She stated that a petition signed by 35 neighbors has been forwarded to the Environ- mental ' Quality Beard (FOB) tequestling an Environmental Assessment Worksheet (EAW). She presented the Commission a ropy of the petition and pictures of the area stating the residents wish to retain this area for future generations. Arlan Kars*ens, 4815 Trenton lane, stated they were the first family to move into Rolling ' Hills park. When h on- taeted the , City re ardln l the status of the adjacent land, he was told the zonl:nq was FR future restricted develop - merit) District and would he developed with single family residential homes. ur her, fie was told prat most of the area 10ould not he developed beeduse of the wetlands. He noted there Is nl,gh3 dry land available for development In Plymouth and this developer' should not be permitted to develop on low, wet land., He stated there Is standing water on, proposed Lots t 14. 15 _1 . and 16, Block _ l and, once these are developed,, the chemicals from the lawns will run Into .the pond drid pollute the waterway. e stated that if the planning Commission had :walked the area they would not support this development. Ile stated Plymouth should not allow development everywhere and should learn a lesson from ether suburbs. Moira Knutson, 4820 union Terrace Lane, inquired about the proposed developed play area as development would affect the drainage from her property. Chairman Steigerwald stated the developer is held responsible to provide and Install proper drainage systems. his, Knutson stated her `concern that the wetlands and wildlife area should be retained. Curtis Knutson, 4820 Union Terrace lane, stated he has the same concerns and does not giant oto trade the pont dor the Play area. He stated these Plans may loots good on paper but that in actuality there Is a large pond surrounded by extensive wetlands and he does not want to see It destroyed. Pam Kr, uger, 4825 Saratoga lane, stated she does not want the pond filled, she picked her home for the view and wants to preserve the Arany varieties of wildlife in this area. Page 246 pl.anninq Commission Minutes November 61, 1985 Donald Russell,, 4815 Saratoga Un stated he bought his h Ire In July this year which is adjacent to the proposed development. He stated that he has seen basements cave in Where construction has occurred in low areas. He noted that proposed mets 14, 15, 10 and 13, Block 1, are very high and Will require grading and ` fill whi ,1,h will necesslitate re tov- Ing marry of the trees. He stated his concern about fillinq the pad dnd has concerns regarding, safety if the variance for the cul,de-sac length is approved. Todd Sdreupaj 4805 Saratoga lane, stated when he heard about this proposal he laughed.. He stated that the planning Com- mission should visit the site before voting ort it. He noted that the property s marginal; is a remnant site; and, he foresees homes With wet basements' followed by legal action by the homeowners against the City for approving the prof-- vot,. He stated this if. a natural setting With many varle- tiesof wildlife which is the most important reason to stop this development. He if- also concerned about the length of the cul-de-sac f e !cq the health, safety and Welfare of the residents. He inpired about park dedication and who gets the and teyhair-man Steigerwald explained that the- park heparkdeliatior. fees are used by the City for development' of parklands. Mrs ' areupa stated he would rather have the City develop a park here than have: the developer pay the dedica- tion fees.. He inquired about the trail for the proposed development stating it would be noisy and Will diminish the privacy of his home, Commissioner pauba confirmed that the Planning Commission members visit all sites proposed for development. Mark Scheidhauer, 4860 Union Terrace, stated he spoke with erry Smith of the Corps., of Engineers who surveyed this area and stated the Carps has jurisdiction and a Permit would be requiredd from the Carps. of Engineers and the DNR,. Engineer Coldberg confirmed for Chairman Stelgerwald that plans are submitted to the DNR and they forward them to the Corps* of Engineers for review. Mr. Sdhiedhauer stated That, he attended a Town Meeting 6 or T months ago regarding v pians for County Road and, was told that there would be no deve.lo men in this speoific area for at .least 5 years. When, he moved into his home, the developer's representative told film there was no sway there would be development of this area dim Sentman, 10.."0 ountxy Road 15, stated ; he Moes not live in the area, but is interested ire the plight of these neigh- bors . He stated it appears there is encroachment into th. pond and wildlife area He is concerned about tale muskrat houses that will be in jeopardy and the drainage problers that Will occur with development. He, stated that a beauti- ful area such as this should: be retained and an EAVY should be considered. r age 247 plannlaq Commission Minutes November Shimst.ockt 4860 Union Terrace stated she lives near the proposed out;lot area and is concerned about the'area a a whole. She stated Plymouth is losing wildlife at an in- creased rate bt, pause of all the development. She noted the problems with drainage and runoff causing pollution and that it- is up to everyone to protect the ecosystems She noted that capon developments 95 children could be using the proposed play area and this inor sed density should not be allowed'. ifs. Shimshock read the "Plymouth'Symbol" denoting the quality of life. She asked the Commission to recommend denial of this proposal. Tara Wisdorf y 4330 Union' Terrace Lane, stated her concerns are the same and she sympathizes with the prospective buyers of this property . They were told when they bought their home that nothing mould be built here, however, this same developer kriew, he could be developinq this area and mislead many people. Leslie Fchholdt,,4820 Wellington ..ane, stated she moved into the area In 1 and: the winter of 1980 they skated: on the pond which `is large and very deep. She stated the wetlands are not accurately represented with this presentation as they are extensive and covered with cattai.l$. She stated that the hones ard land in the Harrison Hills` development relate to each other and this proposed development deserves a developer: who wj,-lll work with the land. She stated they are not confident this will be the case as this developer leveled Rol.li.nq Hills Park. She stated her concern regard- ing the 10 ft. drop from 'Ieh property to this development; that her home relates to the land and she does not avant extensive ter ad i,ng and filling done near her property. She stated the 'density is too high and the transition is poor. She requested the Commission to deny the proposal and the land be left as is. Sandy Lester7 10805, 49th., Avenue North,. stated she had brought slides and pictures of the area, however, ,t4ey do not fit the City's carrousel. She stated she has lived in her home for 18 ,years. She described the topography arca the fact that this development plan includes lots that will exist only because of extensive grading and illin *2 lt' is her opinion that this d:ve.lop r has no right to come into an established neighborhood and desecrate the area. She under- stands development and progress won't be stooped, but that. the City must establish definite qui.de Ines for development. Kurt Laugh.in house, 8209 Pennsylvania Rd., Hloomi.ngton, stated' that he is part owner of the northern 213 o tthe project and brought in the initial applicatiol9 For develop- ment of the area. He sited' he would discuss the pond and land area. He showed illustrations of the pondlw'a1 and a Page 24, planning Commission Minutes Nlo-v-embe r 61 1945 copy of the City's topographical mala. He explained they history of the land under the former owners, ip, of Mr. Vern We gmah, who purchased the, Land in 1962. Mr., l eeciman stated the laid had been farmed and was plowed and urro%, d he used the area for horse pasture anti this land was always dry during the summer months., Mr. Laughinghouse stated that with development of the "Hardware 'Hank" ta.cility on 49th venue in 197% the High V14tdr Elevation was unusually high at X15.; The records had ' shop n the actual el vation : at 911. aghinhoue explained that it was discovered that a drainage outlet was blocked and the pond was not draining as it should. He stated the City tonic aetion to restore the drainage- way at the request of the landowner. Mr. Laughing_ house stated his surprise that the ONR had quoted the High Water Elevation at 91a when It should be 911 or 912., Mr. Laughinghouse expressed his concern with the resident,,, who would " restrict the rights of ownership of a priva c land- owner. He noted t0at the development of Rolling hills Park nVOlved land that bad similar terrain to ,the land in this proposed development. Odd Rjerkonest 4915 Quaker 1 -,ane, stated that he was told by the City that no development would take place in this area for 5 years. He stated ho has a large hill behind his home and he is oono riled about the fill and drainage that could impact his property,; He stated he does not want the ponds destroyed and he cannot see that the City is gaining any- thing by this development. He would Lice to see development deferred *'or eery so he has time to move someplace else. Larry Deckers 2805 Revere Circle, stated he does not live in this area but panted the Commission to beware that the DUli has se;.eet d 63 sites in Plymouth that are ander theirpro- tection but the City has al.lowad development in some of these areas. He questions allowing this development in a NR project that he was told is project No. 579W. City Engineer Goldberg stated it has not been determined by ;the QNR if their protected wetlandsands extend into the area of development. Mr. Decker stated that he understands the City has considered alterations of Four of the 63 DNR projects in Plymouth and at this rate It Auld alter every protected wetland in Plymouth within 1years., He sated that perhaps altering four may be a trend. Sue Xappj4800 Saratoga Lane, stated she once lived in St. Louis Park and understands progress. She related an incident rhea; she built a home at County Road 24 and State Highway 01- her basement was water damaged because of development in the area causing the tater table to rise. Page t149 tannin Commission Minutes November 6, 1935 Site statue she has had some recent water damage at her new residence and her sump pump runs all the time. She stated the City chargee her a permit fee to reconstruct the base- ment at tier previous home and site is angry and hurt that Plymouth does not show sympathy to residents. She stated she wants to see less development and suggested that the Cityshould µor to reduce the impact n the natural ,areas. William, Schroeder, 4920 Quaker Lane, stated he lives in the area and that all the com lents made ' demonstratee orfec ly wtt has been done to this area. He stated his opinion that It does not seen feasible to continue this growth. He is concerned with the number of units proposed and the "drastic changes to the topography. He, requested the Commission to not support this development as proposed. Charman Stelgerivald asked Mr. Hagen to answer the questions arta comment on the concerns expressed by the residents. Mrs. Hagen explained that the property rights of the land owner were iminished by the upstream damming of the natural eater way and he was within his Frights to ask the ; City to rectify the situation. He stated that; the current pondele- vation, was arti icially created at the time of the develop- ment of the "Hardware Hank" facility. He noted that the reference to "no development planned for S years"' most likely pertains, to discussions regarding the public:' tmp ovem,K nts which are updated annually under ;the Capital Improvement -s, Program of the City* He explained that the open space will be used by the prop- erty owners and mantal.ned by the Homeowner's Association for this development. He stated that the suggestion that the entire area be left as a passive recreational area is admirable, however, the City does ,not have plans for park per the Comprehensive park Plan. lie stated , the ; land is privately owned ' and can be developed under the Ordinance standards. He stated he does not agree with comments that the developer is not working with the land. The plans for developmentent blend the development: with the natural area. He n.,itedr that the future residents will. Fad' for the preserva- of the large natural open arca, no tax dollars will be used.. Mr. Hagen stated there is no latent to alter the wetland that is ONR protected. It was noted that grading will not involve any land rather than that owned by the developer /proponent l that leveling will be done to offer translu-Ion to the adjacent property. Page 250 Mannino, Commission Minutes lomhk r 6t, Chairman Steigerw4ld inr « :: A)out the EM,. Coordinator Mcconn (t that the regulation allow for petitioning for an UAW with the submission `' elide t sikinatures, She stated that this development did riot exeeed the t;hreshholds ftp. r ands-Aor y nv r n entEa l review. Chairman Stelgerw4ld inquired whether there will be standing water on the eastern ode of the property canoe (1ridinq Is compLeted'. Mr. Haqen stated he did not believe this would be the o ase that onef, the t9indl elevations are attained there will be no water standinq for any period of t1MQj atthough there may be areas that will be Slow to drain. Mr. Hagen confirmed that in regard to water damage to base- ments, the City re-qu rement is for the basements to be Z ft. above the High Water Elevation. Commissioner tulh rq inquired about the slope and the . r d- inq of the west side of the property. Fir. Marlen stated there a 10 ft. difference in grade and some levelinq will be done-, however, they are taking into oonsld ration, that the views of the adjacent homeowners remain s:nrestrl t d; there mil.11 be, a 3 r' 1 slope on the west Ids # and not so severe On the east. He, expLain d the. contours and the hou dd elevations. Chairman Stelgerwald advised the residents they Could address the Commission a'second time if they wish. Part Berner,` 4815 Quak i Lane, _ stated that comments meds on- irm all changes which have occurred were duo to develop- ment. He is concerned that Plymouth not allow the develop- meat ev lopmeatofeverysquareinchofland. lie noted there will be no pond lett, but there will be a drainage problem. The proposal is for too marry homes, and he is opposed to the ath of the cul-de-sac. Larry raider, 4840 Union Terrace Lane, stated he lives in Rolling Bills Park and feels he was mislead regardinq this development pro osal . The developer made premises that were no -V kept. He noted that proposed Cuts , ; 9f. 7, and , Block are in, the middle of the pond, making It clear that exten- si page 251 Planning Co m s ion l lnutes November 8 1 19$5 Brian bars ensu 4815 Trenton lane, addressed Mr.Laughing- house's comments that the present homeowners are on land similar to that being proposed for development. It is his opinion that what is done is done, hog ever they are speak- ing to prevent ::ore damage to this land.. e stated the City should, assure that only that Viand which is eery and at higher elevations be used for the development of homes; this would also alleviate crowding when development occurs Moira knutson, 4820 Union Terrace Lane, inquired about the absent Commission members and whether a meeting would be held where they could be involved. Chairman Steigerwald ex- plained this is not required. Ms, 1(nutson inquired about the open space,; housing pads., lot sizes, and whether other children in the neighborhood would be allowed to play in the open (play) area or would It be fenced.: lir. Fran Hagen responded the area would be for the residents of thissub- division who will pay for its maintenance and upkeep, but didn't think there would be objections to neighborhood chil- dren playing there, He explained that house pads are the area prepared for foundation and construction of the dwell- tng. Proposed lot sizes were reviewed Donald Russell, 4615 Saratoga Lane, stated his concern re- garding e - g rdin drainage and the, safety factor of the length of the cud. -de -sac. He stated .that the use of the land and con- struction of homes should complz t each other rather and natural areas should he retained.. odd and Colleen areupal 4805 Saratoga lane, stated, the cul-de-sac issue has not been addressed. Mr. Hagen explained that the request for a variance on the length: of the cul-de-sac is not ursgsoal and will provide adequate tura around area for Fire Department truces, City snow removal equipment and police vehlrles. He stated thecul-de-sac is used to limit traffic to an area. Mr4 Sareupa inquired why the City has a maximum length for cul-de-sacs? Coordinator McConn noted that historically the cul-de-sac length related to the length of the fire hose. The Fire Chief and Engineering Department have reviewed and supports this variance request. Mr. Sareupa stated his concern regarding the Ordinance requirements and the fact that they, are doubling the length of the cul-de-sac. lis wondered whether the City would be better served by the construction of homes,, or the retention of the natural areas and: wildlife which should be a primary consideration. Chairman Steigerwald commented on rights of ownership and that a private land owner can submit development plans with- in the guidelines of the Ordinance and Code requirements Page Planning o ission, Minutes to ember+ 61 V8 Mr. Sa eupa stated this development plan calls for too many variances from the Ordinance standards. Mary Shinishock, 4560 Union Terrace,. stated she had also talked with Sorry Smith of the Carps of Engineersand he stated the Corps does have jurisdiction and permits may be required. She asked Mr. Laughinghouse about the ownership of the land and the drainage. It is her opinion the pond elevations should be deal a th as it exists today. 9r. a qninghod e reiterated the informatton relative to the artificial ponding caused by the damming of eater and the City's installation of storm sewer to alleviate this problem. Chairman Steic erg ald explained that any special permits re- qAred such as from the DNR will be required before building permits are issued. illi. Shimshook stated her concern regardIng the play area and that this area should be retained in its natural state. She inquired whether an agency involved in conservation of a natural areas co Id be persuaded to buy this land,. Chairman Steil er ald stated these are questions to be addressed by the City Council. Ms. Shimsbock inquired if this develfp- meht would take precedence because of concern for the City's tax ba e. Chairman Steigerwald stated questions on taxation should also be brought to the Council. Dopa Wisdor , 4838 Unl.oa Terrace Lane, commented that the open space is a detriment relative to the densly bonus paints received and he disagrees that this plan addresses the environment. He requested measurements, be taken over a period of time to insure the High later Elevation is accur- ate. He requests the Commission to defer their recommenda- tion, until an Environmental review is 'completed.Coordina- tor McConn explained that the review is not mandatory. I those uses where amandatory review is processed, the City was Informed by the EQ8 that they arehesitant to r,Wiew the FAA until. the City >hz ' approved a preliminary plat. She further explained in response to Chairman Steierwal.d, that If an EAW is processed, no development can commence until the process is completed. Sandy Lester, 10805 49th avenue Morth,, stated she wanted to re-emphasize to the Commission that in the 18 years site has lived in this area, this land has been tet. She reiterated her cormnents regarding poor transition page 253 lel anninq Commission Minutes November 6, 1985 lest to Eehholdt j, 4820 Wellington lane, stated ' her concern that this is not the best development plan for this area, the terrain will be altered and the development is over- crowded. She stated this development plan dues nit work with the lend and It should be modeled after a development lake Harrison Hills. Odd Bjerkenas, 4915 Quaker 'Lane, stated concern -the EAW would be -conducted after the ponds are gone because of the cha*ges made to the drama ewayF; by the City. Engineer Goldberg stated the- EAW would address the wildlife and plantlzfe$ as well as the wetlands. Mr. Bjerkenas stated he feels the City acted prematurely by proceeding with Ole work. Chairman Stelgerwald and Engineer Goldberg explained the Cl y had followed cep_ on the concerns of a landowner who identified problems with drainage on his land and teat this would be done in any ease. Coordinator McCenn explained the adherence to the City's Storm Water Drainage Platt and that all work completed was through ONR Permits. Mr. Bjerkenas reiterated his concern regarding a `own Meet- Inq Meet- Iwhere he understood there would be no, dev lopment in this area for 5 years. Coordinator goCe n explained the Capital Improvements Program which addresses public improve- ments, not private development. Williamlam Schroeder, 4920 Quaker lane, stated tie wanted a clarification of the 00 -Year High eater Elevation; Eng,neer Goldberg responded this elevation is 913. lir. Schroeder stated his concern that this developer ; should not be allowed to change the contours of the land. Mr. Saul Segal, Enterprise Properties, stated that he developed 'Rolling hills Park and he wanted to correct the assumptions regarding park dedication ,and the completion of trails; that 6 aures of trailway and pare has or will be developed. tie 'stated the plan preserves the trees and the pond is protected by a drainage easement. He stated,that he became Involves in the development of Ivy P<:rk 11 three months ago and that this .land cost 1/3 more than that purchased for Rolling gills Park.. stated neither he 'nor his represehtatves had said there ;would be no building on this lend and that all buyers were tofu to check with the City. Dan Wlsdor , 4.R30 Union Terrace Lane,inquired V oiling Hills Park' and. the proposed area for development had been combined, would an EAW have been required? ootdinato. Mc `unh responded thts would not have heen the case, the area of development` dirk not exceed the th eslhhol.ds for o mandator AW. Pae 254 Plaui ting 'omuuission nuttes November 61 1985 arr s d Sly Union Terrace Lane, stated that he recbg- ni es the rights of private ownership but the 0welopm. ent as proposed is not taking into account the environmental features of the land dfid he expects that an AW will, be completed.. Diary Shimshock, : 4560 Union Terrace lane, stated that she understood the DMR had established the High Water Elevation at 913. Engineer C ldberg stated the DNR has preliminarily established the elevation and w4lt review further Informa- tion before making their final determination. Dane Carroll (nes card) stated he has .lived in the area 1 ve rs; that lie slid not i ant Rolling Hills Park to 'develop because of the need for extension bf Valley Forge lane which was very costly, He stated he was not given the change to speak aqairwst the Rolling Hills Park development. Mr. Carrell offered to speak further tylth those residents interested purchasing Viis_ .land, Chairman Stelgerwald closed the Public,Hearing. MOTION by Commissioner Pauha, seconded by Commissioner HOTION TO APPROVE Magqus to recommend approval for the Residential . Planned Unit Development veep : Plan subject o the e ndittons as stated in true October 23, 1955 staff report.. Commissioner Pauba stated he Is sympathetic to the residents best the, landowner Is ithin his rights to request approval for development of his land and the develdpm.,tit plans are within the guideline f the City's Codes and } ilr ahees Commissioner Stulberg stated the Commission must carry out their charge by reviewing proposal against the the Ordin- ance. The variances) which include the PUD size requlre- meht# meet tie criteria anvil the developer has Included additional land area as dlrented by {the City Council. He reiterated that the the Enqtneering,, Fire., and Public Safety Departments have supported the v ri iti e for the cul-de-sac length* Roll Call VOTE. 5 Ayes. MOTION dallied. VOTE MOTION CARRIED Commissioner Magnus inquired about Lint 1) Block 1 4 on the northeast side., , and ' whether the rear of this lot would be under water. Engineer Coldberg explained the easement and that here is sufficient area: for setback to a home,, Page 2155 Planning Commission Minutes MOTION by Commissioner Magnust seconded by Commissioner NOTION TO APPROVE Paulro to recomatend approval for the Preliminary ' fan/plat, Rezoning, Conditional Use .hermit, and Variance subject to the conditions " as stated in the 0otober Z1, 1985 staff report. Roll Call t` ,' . 5 Ayes. MOTION carried. VOTE NOTION CARRIED nurdtnator Mc nn stated that these who are Interested an the c. 4,.ty Council meeting can contact the Planning Division at the malty for confi coati -i of that date. Chairman t igerwald explained the City "'Ouncil forum. Chairman Stei erwald called -a 10 minute Recess at 11:05 P.M. RECESS Chairman Steigerwald introduced the request by Micilael ICHAEL FRE and an overview fthe October 1985 stafreport1 RZONN,PRELIMINARY iy}( was, made bv Coordinator j1 4 34 Chairman }lxkal t4a° i k.Y + P.ii+ CONDITIONAL Freund duced Cdr., nary Gabriel, representing the pmt itioner PERKT,. AND VARIANCE 85108 Chairman Steigerwa.ld opened the Public Hearing.. Mr. Marlyn Ervasti, 13110 ',tth Avenue Northt stated he is not ar ti -levo o men , however, atjs question relates to the zoning designation of this property and he wonders it the 1 zoning will conflict with thi proposal. Coordinator , McC'onn explained the Land Use Guide Plan which Its intended to allow development with a density of 5 to 5 units per acre and that single family dwellings are allowed as a con- ditional use in the It -21 Zoning District. j4r.. l roast! notead that the platshows development of :the l.ot, at the northeast corner only for Phase l., and inquired whether thc undeveloped land could be sold and multiple housing developed which would not he in _keeping with the surrounding neighborhoods.. He stated his opinion that the area should he rezoned to R -1A,. Chairman Strigerwald explained that approval for any development other than what Is requested would need to go through the review process,, John 3. Grant, 3605 Vinewood Lanes stated -he was also ccn- cerned with the zoning and would like to knc•v what type .. housing is proposed. Chairman Steigerwald stated developer is not .required to commit to pricing ,the singl , farily homes and the Commission does not get involved In the fjoanc cal aspects of development. Mtohael .Freund stated the games will be in keeping with the neighborhood and will be upscale Ill their design Pages 256 Planning Commission Minutes November 6t"1385 arc 3ohnson, 5 Rosewoodane stated his concern regard Ing drainage because of the marsh area and h; does not want construction debris, eater and mud draining onto his property., Engineer Goldberg anti :nary Gabriel confirmed that there will be a storm eater. ctv urt to cgmn rol the floe to the east with a pipe ander Rosewood Lane.. There will be erosioncon- trol barriers such as silt fence and hay bales if necessary to supplement the fiber material. Richard Knust, 13140 37th Avenue North, inquired abotit the fill and Li.-adi.no that will be red sired. Dennis, Saari,- resentinq r ., d veh per, stated the grading will be uni orsi# with no severe drop otf,. Mr. Gabriel added ;that grading ill be dote for the installation of the cul-de-sac. Mr. hast inquired about the value of the homes to he construct- ed. Mr. Gabriel stated there seems to be a gond demand for the types of homes already built in. this area and the new home; will be similar to those in the Heritage Estates and West developments* Kathryn Peterson, 3515 osewood Lane., stated her concerns regarding the environment and the drainage from this area. he stated they have problems with damp basements. and they do not want these matters made worse. She is also concerned about the noise levels as the traffic noise from 1-494 has Increased due to the removal of gees in the area. She re- quested that noise harriers be considered as part of this development. She stated the residents have paid:more to live dere and runt their neighborhood to remain oncrowded and quiet. Chairman Steeigerwald inquired about any drainage onto the Peterson property. Engineer Goldberg stated he would stop by to talk with her to see what can be don i ho evert drain- age ori l 1 be directed to the pond on-site and he cannot see that her property will be impacted by drainage from this development* Arlene Johnson$ 3535 Rosewood Lane, explained the drainage problems they have had at their home. Mr. Ervasti reiterated his concern regarding the zonincj o this property and encouraged that it be rezoned to R -1 A. Coordinator NeConn explained this would not be consistent with the Lund Ilse Gide Plan Mr. Johnson inquired about the amount 6f Fill and where it will be placed, lir, Saari explained the grading and: filling plans. City Engineer Goldberg stated any one who has con=- cerns regarding the erosion control once work begins, should call the City's Engineering Department., Pae 257 Planning Commission Minutes November 6t 198 Mr. Knust inquired If a builder could construct a dupley, on any of the lots. Chairman St gerwa,Ld confirmed that build - Ing permits would be for single family residential units only if this proposal. Is approved. Any amendments to the approved General Development Paan. requires City revreiv, and approval. Ms. Peterson reiterated that to maintain adequate erosion control and minimize the noise, the trees should not be removed., Chairman Steiqerwald closed the public Hearing. MOTION by Commissioner Pauha,, seconded by Commissioner MOTION APPROVE Stulberg to recommend approval for the Rezoning, , Preliminary Plat, Conditional Use permit, and Variance for Michael Freund subject to the conditions as stated In the October l, 198 staff report. MOTION to Amend by Chairman Steigerwaldl. seconded by Commis- MOTION TO AMEND sioner_ auba *o. add Condition No. 14 that there be as little disturbance as possible relative to the grading, and filling for Lots 11 21 32 and 4 of the first phase of development. yy-}}yy,y+r a ator McConn recalled if the Commission has consideredCoordinatorx.'vFord..s allowing a reduced front yard setback to .sago trees at the rear of the lots., Chairman Steiqwald stated he preferred to leave the condition as stated. Roll Call VOTE on the Amendment. 4Ayes. CommIssioner VOTE MOTION TO tu.lber t Nay.. MOTION carried. AMWO, CARRIED Roll Call VOTE on MAIN MOTION, as once Fended. 5 Ayes. VOTE MAIN MOTION MOTION carried. MOTION CARRIED Chairman Steigerwald tntr)NNdt,,ced the request by Bob Fields 808 FIELDS AND and Brian Zubert. He regi ested an overview of the October BRIAN ZUf3E T 1985 staff report by Coordinator McConn.. U--DQ-CA3WASH GENERAL DEVELOPMENT Charman Stei er ald ;introduced Bob Fields, 8799 Magnolia PLAN AMENDMENT,,SITE ane, who, explained the request and the. unique layout ,and PLAN, CONDITIONAL USE de-sitPERMITnofthefactlgty AND "VARLAWE. 65109 Chairman Stel erwald Inquired how many facilities are in operation at this time, Mr. Fields explained the facility at Bismarck, M.D. that 'ias been operating for 8 months. They had some circulation problems there but they have been corrected the problem. He stated they have eliminated out- side drying :stalls to eliminate the vehicles being parked on or off-site to ,finish the drying process. They will. police Page 2158 planning Commission minutes November 1 198 the area to .assist with any stacking problems tbat could arise. Chairman Steigerwald Inquired if the facility will be attended; Mr. Fields' stated tnere will be attendants present during all hours of operation.. He noted that the Inside stalls have been well revelved, especial.y in the winter ;months. Chairman t lge Wald is uired' how th Fy would prevent custom- ers from parking on their site to go across the street to purchase lunch (for example) Mrs Fields stated this would not be a problem and they would consider policing their own site. Commissioner dellen stated his concern about traffic in the area of the fast food businesses on 28th Place and it sums this facility would add to ;that congestion. tor. Fields stated he plans `;signage that should limit the stacking prob- lem by letting the cus .,,, er know the estimated w --ting period (45 minutes) at various points. Commissioner Hellen stated he prefers the flow-through design with the parking stall design as a back -cep only. Mr. Fields explained the procedures to be used when stacking .lanes are full. Chairmen Stcigerwal ,stated there dial not appear to be ade- quate space for a customer to exit if he 'dial not wish to wait. Mr. Fields explained d, broadcasting system that can be tuned In on the custom r"s car radio for education on the use of the facility, hairman Steigerwald opened the Public Hearing. Bill Cadtk , '5824 Gettysburq CIE,elep disagrees with the statement by staff that the parking requirements are ret with this facility. He stated that this carwash is much larger than his business and his lot ` stacks 55 cars. He addressed the water connection fees for this facility. He stated it is his opinion that there will . be more than 17 cars stacked causing traffic to stop and back-up on the oul - d -sac. lie stated his concern regarding setting a precedent in allowwinq the ,variances as proposed. Kent Coulson, stated he representSL Burger King Restaurant and is concerned about the problems with traffic circulation on this cul-de-sac. Re stated customers facing a 45 minute gait at this facility will try to back out onto the roadway. He noted the problems with controlling semi -trailer track traffic as well, as automobile traffic and, when Arby's Roast Beef Restaurant opens, it will be worse. He stated that the; established restaurants on Z8th Place must have a free flown of traffic for their businesses. He stated they have as many as 200 cars coring through their drive-through and this does not include the oars parked on site; age 2 59 Planning Commission Minutes November 6t V85 Chairman Stelgerwald Inquired about their Saturday bus- iness. qtr. Coulson stated ,business is not as heavy on Saturdays and comes later in the day, however, there is more business on Saturdays Juring the summer months. Jim Lindstrom, Hopkins, stated tie is associated with the Hopkltis car care and 1ttat this is ,i good eonoep . qtr. Cadtke stated he agrees it is a qood concept but It won't fit on<this 'particular lot. Mr. Fields stated they would not serve semi -trailer trucks and It is just a matter of education of the ` Customer ` to eliminate sta-klnq and parking problems*. He stated that his peaty traffic times will not coincide with the restaurants. He stated that Saturday will ' be a better business day for his facility but his business wwi,ll be early in the day and the summer kw x,-tths, are slow for oarwwash ,operations. Chairman Stei erwwal,d inquired how many oars he: could expect du inq the winter monthMrsFields ' estimated "3 0 to 400 cars on an average. Chairman Stelgerwald inquired about the amount of stacking at Arby's* Co,rdinator McConn explained the Or i nance requirements* s reiterated that he will have employees on-site toMfr. F`eld i police the traffic and that they would turn' people away If a stacking problem arises. Commissioner` Magnus Inquired about the number of slacking spaces at the carwwash on Broadway in Crystal as used as an example by Mfr. Fields. Mr. Fields stated they have 14 stacking spaces. Commissioner Magnus st;ited tie has found that even with adequa-e stackin $ traf- fic congestion can and does occur, wwairman St igerKwwald closed the Public Heiring. Commissioner Stulberg stated he I$ concerned that an escape drive lane is not .included on this site plan. He feels that the number of variances that would be needed" for ars office building, if the use should chance,, would make it necessary for the building to remain a oarwwash Commissioner pauba concurred and stated his concern ' wwitn traffic control for the area. He, stated he would like to see' this facility in an ,area where the traffic is not so congested, Mr . Fields stated they could design an escape drive lane, Commissioner Stul,berc noted they would lose stacking space with the installation of an escape drive lane. Chairman Steigerwald stated he shares the concerns regarding the stacking plan, escape lane, and alternate wise.. lie stated the Commission could defer recommendation with direction for re-des:icni or, could recommend denial and the request would go forward to the City Council for final action. Nanning mmissiot'l • inures November 6$. 1985 Hr. .ids Inquired a kr.- ',ati it 'v `4= e kX. f tlnOther Site I'd the time required to re-view his application 1f this were the case. After further discussion Mr. Fields statedd hey *ould withdraw they request and look for another situ if an alternate design ann t be prepared. NOTION by Commissioner Stulber9j, seconded by -Commissioner NOTION TO DEFER Hagnus to recommendmend deferral of this application for the reasons cited in the l;o e"r 24, 1985 staff report. Roll Call VOTE 5 Ayes. MOTION carried. VOTE - MOTIO14 CARRIED MOTION by Commissioner; thig us, seconded by Commissioner CRAIG Paubd to recommendnd approval of t;te._ Consent Aqenda that SITE PLAN FOR included they request by Craig. `r°eman for Site Paan appro al WILLOW GROVE for they Willow Greve, Shoppinq Center Phase l subject to SHOPPING CENTER the, conditions as stated in they too r 2 ,. 19 staff 100) report, OT 4 Ayeso, MOTION carried. AWOURNMENT They meeting. adjourned at 12: A.M.