HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 11-06-1985CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PIANN04C
NOVEMBER198
The regular Meetinq of the Plymouth Planninq Cfmmission was
walled to order~ at P.M.
NEMERSP NT' ha rman reigerwal.d Commissioners
Maqnus, Stulberg, Pauba. Commissioner
Hellon arrived at 8*-15 P.M.
WMBERS ABSENT: Commissioners Wire and P, of a
STAFF PRESENT. Community Development Cootdtnator
Sara lconri
City 1`Gq neer Sherm Goldberg
Community Development Secretary
Grace Wineman
CONSENT AGENDA AND
BUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Magnus se Waded by Commissioner Pauba CONSENT AGENDA
to recommend approval of the Consent Agenda with no
deletions. VOTE 4 ryes. Commissioner Stulberg abstained
from the vote on the Minutes MOTION carried.
MjttUTFSMOTI0114bC ' mi_ nor t-tominu "o ed by Cow_ issioner Pauba OF OCTOBER
to recommend approval of the October 231, 1985 Minutes as 23, 1985
submitted.
VST,f1* 4 Ayes;Commissioner tv!herq abstained. VOTE M T M CARRIED
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Cha!rinan tei erwal.d introduced the request by Saul Segal,, SAUL SEGAL
Ento -prise Properties and requested an ,)verview Of the Onto- ENTERPRISE PROPERTIES,
ber Z3$ 1985 staff report by Coordinator Cont aardi:na PUi} CONCEPT PLAR
for ticConn also explained the Planned Unit Development PRELIMINARY PLAMiTLAT
review and the combination of requests being considered, REZONING, CONDITION&
USE PERMIT,, VARIANCE
hairmar Stei erwa'd inquired about the preliminary reports IVY PSK II
from the Department of Natural Resources MR) relative to , 84057)
wetl.an ,. Coordipator McConn e plain d that 3udy Boudreau,
DNR reviewed the application and preliminarily identified
the W.41t Water Elevation of 913 for protected wetlands. She
farther explained that additional low land in this area is
riot part of a protected wetla:=gid* She noted that these ponds ,
are not part of theCity's Stormy later Drainage SYstem.
Chairman 5tei erwald intrujueo Mr. Frari, liagen, 7415 Way at.i
Blvd, representing the petit onar.
Patine 744
Plannino commission Minutes
Mr. thigen explained the development plan and that this is all
infill ` development surrounded by areas known as "Rolling
l-li `lls", "'Skyline ills" and "Nathan, Trails". He e p.lAlled
the topography and that they intend to retail) the natural
ponding: area in the norther: , part of the site. lie staged
the plans art- responsive to the environmental, constraints by
retention of the natural areas and that encroachment Into
the natural arias is minimal. He explained that infill
development Is desirable and meets the guidelines of the
Metropolltah Urban Service Area and Pl ou h*s, Comprehensive
Plan which is approved b the Metropolitan CourtAil.
Chairman Stedgerwald stated he had walked the site and In-
uired about the Prada rrc and f i 11 ink to occur on the rtorth-
east side and southwest corner of the property. fir- Hagen
stated tree northeast side has scattered trees and as many of
these trees as possible will he maintained. The;gradinc
plan proposes to Install the house pads, rear yard areas
will lig urctouched on the north side. There will he qradinq
w th 'Oerming along, Schmidt Labe Road., He stated the grad nil
on the west will he confined to housing pads only with no
grading, at the rear of the lots
Chairman Stelgerwald inquired about the are -3a adjacent to
Rolling Hills Park that have standirig, eater n al. Proposed
Lots 6t 71, 81 and 9. Mr, ,Marlen ` stated this area will be
left In Its natural stag for the most part. He explained
that the wa qr in the area has been unnatural.l.y high due tk)
debris' that has acted as a dam, Pluqqing the upstre str storm
eater drainageway*
Chairman Steitlerwald opened the Public Heard ng,,
Marlon Bohnsa k, 330 Zinnia bane N., s, atod she does not
live in the immediate area bot is Info on this request
and wants to share what she and her newqnbors experienced
during the development phases of their neighborhood. Sero
s atad it Is Imperative that the Commtssi.on consider the
marshland; that construction of County goad 61 ;came through
a DNR controlled area against the wisnes of the area resi-
dents*
si-
dents* ttra much of the natural terrain and cover for the
wildlife was destroyed and tha C once natural areas are
tampered with they hover return to their original state.
fan Ferner, 4835 Quaker ,Nene, stayed that the development of
Rollingn Hills Park did damage to the area, and that
neer, the only wildlife or natural area Is on the property
proposed for development. He is opposed to building homes
around the pond and that the development will require fill -
Ing of they southern ret area. lie st ited that he lives at
the southeast corner of the d veldpmen'z where much fill will
he required because of the standing water.
age 245
P14aninq Commission Minutes
November 6,
Terry l"I ll bridge j 4825 Trenton Dano, inquired shy the
developer's representative is avoiding the Issue of the high
eater behind his tome that will affectthe proposed Lots, 70
and 9. of Block I
Connie Liltibrid e, 4825 Trenton Lane, stated her concern
for the plant and wildlife. She stated that a petition
signed by 35 neighbors has been forwarded to the Environ-
mental ' Quality Beard (FOB) tequestling an Environmental
Assessment Worksheet (EAW). She presented the Commission a
ropy of the petition and pictures of the area stating the
residents wish to retain this area for future generations.
Arlan Kars*ens, 4815 Trenton lane, stated they were the
first family to move into Rolling ' Hills park. When h on-
taeted the , City re ardln l the status of the adjacent land,
he was told the zonl:nq was FR future restricted develop -
merit) District and would he developed with single family
residential homes. ur her, fie was told prat most of the
area 10ould not he developed beeduse of the wetlands. He
noted there Is nl,gh3 dry land available for development In
Plymouth and this developer' should not be permitted to
develop on low, wet land., He stated there Is standing water
on, proposed Lots t 14. 15 _1 . and 16, Block _ l and, once
these are developed,, the chemicals from the lawns will run
Into .the pond drid pollute the waterway. e stated that if
the planning Commission had :walked the area they would not
support this development. Ile stated Plymouth should not
allow development everywhere and should learn a lesson from
ether suburbs.
Moira Knutson, 4820 union Terrace Lane, inquired about the
proposed developed play area as development would affect the
drainage from her property. Chairman Steigerwald stated the
developer is held responsible to provide and Install proper
drainage systems. his, Knutson stated her `concern that the
wetlands and wildlife area should be retained.
Curtis Knutson, 4820 Union Terrace lane, stated he has the
same concerns and does not giant oto trade the pont dor the
Play area. He stated these Plans may loots good on paper but
that in actuality there Is a large pond surrounded by
extensive wetlands and he does not want to see It destroyed.
Pam Kr, uger, 4825 Saratoga lane, stated she does not want
the pond filled, she picked her home for the view and wants
to preserve the Arany varieties of wildlife in this area.
Page 246
pl.anninq Commission Minutes
November 61, 1985
Donald Russell,, 4815 Saratoga Un stated he bought his
h Ire In July this year which is adjacent to the proposed
development. He stated that he has seen basements cave in
Where construction has occurred in low areas. He noted that
proposed mets 14, 15, 10 and 13, Block 1, are very high and
Will require grading and ` fill whi ,1,h will necesslitate re tov-
Ing marry of the trees. He stated his concern about fillinq
the pad dnd has concerns regarding, safety if the variance
for the cul,de-sac length is approved.
Todd Sdreupaj 4805 Saratoga lane, stated when he heard about
this proposal he laughed.. He stated that the planning Com-
mission should visit the site before voting ort it. He noted
that the property s marginal; is a remnant site; and, he
foresees homes With wet basements' followed by legal action
by the homeowners against the City for approving the prof--
vot,. He stated this if. a natural setting With many varle-
tiesof wildlife which is the most important reason to stop
this development. He if- also concerned about the length of
the cul-de-sac f e !cq the health, safety and Welfare of
the residents. He inpired about park dedication and who
gets the and teyhair-man Steigerwald explained that the-
park heparkdeliatior. fees are used by the City for development' of
parklands. Mrs ' areupa stated he would rather have the City
develop a park here than have: the developer pay the dedica-
tion fees.. He inquired about the trail for the proposed
development stating it would be noisy and Will diminish the
privacy of his home,
Commissioner pauba confirmed that the Planning Commission
members visit all sites proposed for development.
Mark Scheidhauer, 4860 Union Terrace, stated he spoke with
erry Smith of the Corps., of Engineers who surveyed this
area and stated the Carps has jurisdiction and a Permit
would be requiredd from the Carps. of Engineers and the DNR,.
Engineer Coldberg confirmed for Chairman Stelgerwald that
plans are submitted to the DNR and they forward them to the
Corps* of Engineers for review. Mr. Sdhiedhauer stated That,
he attended a Town Meeting 6 or T months ago regarding v
pians for County Road and, was told that there would be no
deve.lo men in this speoific area for at .least 5 years.
When, he moved into his home, the developer's representative
told film there was no sway there would be development of this
area
dim Sentman, 10.."0 ountxy Road 15, stated ; he Moes not live
in the area, but is interested ire the plight of these neigh-
bors . He stated it appears there is encroachment into th.
pond and wildlife area He is concerned about tale muskrat
houses that will be in jeopardy and the drainage problers
that Will occur with development. He, stated that a beauti-
ful area such as this should: be retained and an EAVY should
be considered.
r
age 247
plannlaq Commission Minutes
November
Shimst.ockt 4860 Union Terrace stated she lives near
the proposed out;lot area and is concerned about the'area a
a whole. She stated Plymouth is losing wildlife at an in-
creased rate bt, pause of all the development. She noted the
problems with drainage and runoff causing pollution and that
it- is up to everyone to protect the ecosystems She noted
that capon developments 95 children could be using the
proposed play area and this inor sed density should not be
allowed'. ifs. Shimshock read the "Plymouth'Symbol" denoting
the quality of life. She asked the Commission to recommend
denial of this proposal.
Tara Wisdorf y 4330 Union' Terrace Lane, stated her concerns
are the same and she sympathizes with the prospective buyers
of this property . They were told when they bought their
home that nothing mould be built here, however, this same
developer kriew, he could be developinq this area and mislead
many people.
Leslie Fchholdt,,4820 Wellington ..ane, stated she moved into
the area In 1 and: the winter of 1980 they skated: on the
pond which `is large and very deep. She stated the wetlands
are not accurately represented with this presentation as
they are extensive and covered with cattai.l$. She stated
that the hones ard land in the Harrison Hills` development
relate to each other and this proposed development deserves
a developer: who wj,-lll work with the land. She stated they
are not confident this will be the case as this developer
leveled Rol.li.nq Hills Park. She stated her concern regard-
ing the 10 ft. drop from 'Ieh property to this development;
that her home relates to the land and she does not avant
extensive ter ad i,ng and filling done near her property. She
stated the 'density is too high and the transition is poor.
She requested the Commission to deny the proposal and the
land be left as is.
Sandy Lester7 10805, 49th., Avenue North,. stated she had
brought slides and pictures of the area, however, ,t4ey do
not fit the City's carrousel. She stated she has lived in
her home for 18 ,years. She described the topography arca the
fact that this development plan includes lots that will
exist only because of extensive grading and illin *2 lt' is
her opinion that this d:ve.lop r has no right to come into an
established neighborhood and desecrate the area. She under-
stands development and progress won't be stooped, but that.
the City must establish definite qui.de Ines for development.
Kurt Laugh.in house, 8209 Pennsylvania Rd., Hloomi.ngton,
stated' that he is part owner of the northern 213 o tthe
project and brought in the initial applicatiol9 For develop-
ment of the area. He sited' he would discuss the pond and
land area. He showed illustrations of the pondlw'a1 and a
Page 24,
planning Commission Minutes
Nlo-v-embe r 61 1945
copy of the City's topographical mala. He explained they
history of the land under the former owners, ip, of Mr. Vern
We gmah, who purchased the, Land in 1962. Mr., l eeciman stated
the laid had been farmed and was plowed and urro%, d he
used the area for horse pasture anti this land was always dry
during the summer months., Mr. Laughinghouse stated that
with development of the "Hardware 'Hank" ta.cility on 49th
venue in 197% the High V14tdr Elevation was unusually high
at X15.; The records had ' shop n the actual el vation : at 911.
aghinhoue explained that it was discovered that a
drainage outlet was blocked and the pond was not draining as
it should. He stated the City tonic aetion to restore the
drainage- way at the request of the landowner. Mr. Laughing_
house stated his surprise that the ONR had quoted the High
Water Elevation at 91a when It should be 911 or 912., Mr.
Laughinghouse expressed his concern with the resident,,, who
would " restrict the rights of ownership of a priva c land-
owner. He noted t0at the development of Rolling hills Park
nVOlved land that bad similar terrain to ,the land in this
proposed development.
Odd Rjerkonest 4915 Quaker 1 -,ane, stated that he was told by
the City that no development would take place in this area
for 5 years. He stated ho has a large hill behind his home
and he is oono riled about the fill and drainage that could
impact his property,; He stated he does not want the ponds
destroyed and he cannot see that the City is gaining any-
thing by this development. He would Lice to see development
deferred *'or eery so he has time to move someplace else.
Larry Deckers 2805 Revere Circle, stated he does not live in
this area but panted the Commission to beware that the DUli
has se;.eet d 63 sites in Plymouth that are ander theirpro-
tection but the City has al.lowad development in some of
these areas. He questions allowing this development in a
NR project that he was told is project No. 579W. City
Engineer Goldberg stated it has not been determined by ;the
QNR if their protected wetlandsands extend into the area of
development. Mr. Decker stated that he understands the City
has considered alterations of Four of the 63 DNR projects in
Plymouth and at this rate It Auld alter every protected
wetland in Plymouth within 1years., He sated that perhaps
altering four may be a trend.
Sue Xappj4800 Saratoga Lane, stated she once lived in St.
Louis Park and understands progress. She related an
incident rhea; she built a home at County Road 24 and State
Highway 01- her basement was water damaged because of
development in the area causing the tater table to rise.
Page t149
tannin Commission Minutes
November 6, 1935
Site statue she has had some recent water damage at her new
residence and her sump pump runs all the time. She stated
the City chargee her a permit fee to reconstruct the base-
ment at tier previous home and site is angry and hurt that
Plymouth does not show sympathy to residents. She stated
she wants to see less development and suggested that the
Cityshould µor to reduce the impact n the natural ,areas.
William, Schroeder, 4920 Quaker Lane, stated he lives in the
area and that all the com lents made ' demonstratee orfec ly
wtt has been done to this area. He stated his opinion that
It does not seen feasible to continue this growth. He is
concerned with the number of units proposed and the "drastic
changes to the topography. He, requested the Commission to
not support this development as proposed.
Charman Stelgerivald asked Mr. Hagen to answer the questions
arta comment on the concerns expressed by the residents.
Mrs. Hagen explained that the property rights of the land
owner were iminished by the upstream damming of the natural
eater way and he was within his Frights to ask the ; City to
rectify the situation. He stated that; the current pondele-
vation, was arti icially created at the time of the develop-
ment of the "Hardware Hank" facility.
He noted that the reference to "no development planned for S
years"' most likely pertains, to discussions regarding the
public:' tmp ovem,K nts which are updated annually under ;the
Capital Improvement -s, Program of the City*
He explained that the open space will be used by the prop-
erty owners and mantal.ned by the Homeowner's Association
for this development. He stated that the suggestion that
the entire area be left as a passive recreational area is
admirable, however, the City does ,not have plans for park
per the Comprehensive park Plan. lie stated , the ; land is
privately owned ' and can be developed under the Ordinance
standards. He stated he does not agree with comments that
the developer is not working with the land. The plans for
developmentent blend the development: with the natural area. He
n.,itedr that the future residents will. Fad' for the preserva-
of the large natural open arca, no tax dollars will be
used..
Mr. Hagen stated there is no latent to alter the wetland
that is ONR protected.
It was noted that grading will not involve any land rather
than that owned by the developer /proponent l that leveling
will be done to offer translu-Ion to the adjacent property.
Page 250
Mannino, Commission Minutes
lomhk r 6t,
Chairman Steigerw4ld inr « :: A)out the EM,. Coordinator
Mcconn (t that the regulation allow for petitioning for
an UAW with the submission `' elide t sikinatures, She
stated that this development did riot exeeed the t;hreshholds
ftp. r ands-Aor y nv r n entEa l review.
Chairman Stelgerw4ld inquired whether there will be standing
water on the eastern ode of the property canoe (1ridinq Is
compLeted'. Mr. Haqen stated he did not believe this would
be the o ase that onef, the t9indl elevations are attained
there will be no water standinq for any period of t1MQj
atthough there may be areas that will be Slow to drain.
Mr. Hagen confirmed that in regard to water damage to base-
ments, the City re-qu rement is for the basements to be Z ft.
above the High Water Elevation.
Commissioner tulh rq inquired about the slope and the . r d-
inq of the west side of the property. Fir. Marlen stated
there a 10 ft. difference in grade and some levelinq will
be done-, however, they are taking into oonsld ration, that
the views of the adjacent homeowners remain s:nrestrl t d;
there mil.11 be, a 3 r' 1 slope on the west Ids # and not so
severe On the east. He, expLain d the. contours and the hou
dd elevations.
Chairman Stelgerwald advised the residents they Could
address the Commission a'second time if they wish.
Part Berner,` 4815 Quak i Lane, _ stated that comments meds on-
irm all changes which have occurred were duo to develop-
ment. He is concerned that Plymouth not allow the develop-
meat
ev lopmeatofeverysquareinchofland. lie noted there will be
no pond lett, but there will be a drainage problem. The
proposal is for too marry homes, and he is opposed to the
ath of the cul-de-sac.
Larry raider, 4840 Union Terrace Lane, stated he lives in
Rolling Bills Park and feels he was mislead regardinq this
development pro osal . The developer made premises that were
no -V kept. He noted that proposed Cuts , ; 9f. 7, and , Block
are in, the middle of the pond, making It clear that exten-
si
page 251
Planning Co m s ion l lnutes
November 8 1 19$5
Brian bars ensu 4815 Trenton lane, addressed Mr.Laughing-
house's comments that the present homeowners are on land
similar to that being proposed for development. It is his
opinion that what is done is done, hog ever they are speak-
ing to prevent ::ore damage to this land.. e stated the City
should, assure that only that Viand which is eery and at higher
elevations be used for the development of homes; this would
also alleviate crowding when development occurs
Moira knutson, 4820 Union Terrace Lane, inquired about the
absent Commission members and whether a meeting would be
held where they could be involved. Chairman Steigerwald ex-
plained this is not required. Ms, 1(nutson inquired about
the open space,; housing pads., lot sizes, and whether other
children in the neighborhood would be allowed to play in the
open (play) area or would It be fenced.: lir. Fran Hagen
responded the area would be for the residents of thissub-
division who will pay for its maintenance and upkeep, but
didn't think there would be objections to neighborhood chil-
dren playing there, He explained that house pads are the
area prepared for foundation and construction of the dwell-
tng. Proposed lot sizes were reviewed
Donald Russell, 4615 Saratoga Lane, stated his concern re-
garding
e -
g rdin drainage and the, safety factor of the length of the
cud. -de -sac. He stated .that the use of the land and con-
struction of homes should complz t each other rather and
natural areas should he retained..
odd and Colleen areupal 4805 Saratoga lane, stated, the
cul-de-sac issue has not been addressed. Mr. Hagen
explained that the request for a variance on the length: of
the cul-de-sac is not ursgsoal and will provide adequate tura
around area for Fire Department truces, City snow removal
equipment and police vehlrles. He stated thecul-de-sac is
used to limit traffic to an area.
Mr4 Sareupa inquired why the City has a maximum length for
cul-de-sacs? Coordinator McConn noted that historically the
cul-de-sac length related to the length of the fire hose.
The Fire Chief and Engineering Department have reviewed and
supports this variance request. Mr. Sareupa stated his
concern regarding the Ordinance requirements and the fact
that they, are doubling the length of the cul-de-sac. lis
wondered whether the City would be better served by the
construction of homes,, or the retention of the natural areas
and: wildlife which should be a primary consideration.
Chairman Steigerwald commented on rights of ownership and
that a private land owner can submit development plans with-
in the guidelines of the Ordinance and Code requirements
Page
Planning o ission, Minutes
to ember+ 61 V8
Mr. Sa eupa stated this development plan calls for too many
variances from the Ordinance standards.
Mary Shinishock, 4560 Union Terrace,. stated she had also
talked with Sorry Smith of the Carps of Engineersand he
stated the Corps does have jurisdiction and permits may be
required. She asked Mr. Laughinghouse about the ownership
of the land and the drainage. It is her opinion the pond
elevations should be deal a th as it exists today. 9r.
a qninghod e reiterated the informatton relative to the
artificial ponding caused by the damming of eater and the
City's installation of storm sewer to alleviate this
problem.
Chairman Steic erg ald explained that any special permits re-
qAred such as from the DNR will be required before building
permits are issued.
illi. Shimshook stated her concern regardIng the play area and
that this area should be retained in its natural state. She
inquired whether an agency involved in conservation of
a
natural areas co Id be persuaded to buy this land,. Chairman
Steil er ald stated these are questions to be addressed by
the City Council. Ms. Shimsbock inquired if this develfp-
meht would take precedence because of concern for the City's
tax ba e. Chairman Steigerwald stated questions on taxation
should also be brought to the Council.
Dopa Wisdor , 4838 Unl.oa Terrace Lane, commented that the
open space is a detriment relative to the densly bonus
paints received and he disagrees that this plan addresses
the environment. He requested measurements, be taken over a
period of time to insure the High later Elevation is accur-
ate. He requests the Commission to defer their recommenda-
tion, until an Environmental review is 'completed.Coordina-
tor McConn explained that the review is not mandatory. I
those uses where amandatory review is processed, the City
was Informed by the EQ8 that they arehesitant to r,Wiew the
FAA until. the City >hz ' approved a preliminary plat. She
further explained in response to Chairman Steierwal.d, that
If an EAW is processed, no development can commence until
the process is completed.
Sandy Lester, 10805 49th avenue Morth,, stated she wanted to
re-emphasize to the Commission that in the 18 years site has
lived in this area, this land has been tet. She reiterated
her cormnents regarding poor transition
page 253
lel anninq Commission Minutes
November 6, 1985
lest to Eehholdt j, 4820 Wellington lane, stated ' her concern
that this is not the best development plan for this area,
the terrain will be altered and the development is over-
crowded. She stated this development plan dues nit work
with the lend and It should be modeled after a development
lake Harrison Hills.
Odd Bjerkenas, 4915 Quaker 'Lane, stated concern -the EAW
would be -conducted after the ponds are gone because of the
cha*ges made to the drama ewayF; by the City. Engineer
Goldberg stated the- EAW would address the wildlife and
plantlzfe$ as well as the wetlands. Mr. Bjerkenas stated he
feels the City acted prematurely by proceeding with Ole
work. Chairman Stelgerwald and Engineer Goldberg explained
the Cl y had followed cep_ on the concerns of a landowner who
identified problems with drainage on his land and teat this
would be done in any ease. Coordinator McCenn explained the
adherence to the City's Storm Water Drainage Platt and that
all work completed was through ONR Permits.
Mr. Bjerkenas reiterated his concern regarding a `own Meet-
Inq
Meet-
Iwhere he understood there would be no, dev lopment in
this area for 5 years. Coordinator goCe n explained the
Capital Improvements Program which addresses public improve-
ments, not private development.
Williamlam Schroeder, 4920 Quaker lane, stated tie wanted a
clarification of the 00 -Year High eater Elevation; Eng,neer
Goldberg responded this elevation is 913. lir. Schroeder
stated his concern that this developer ; should not be allowed
to change the contours of the land.
Mr. Saul Segal, Enterprise Properties, stated that he
developed 'Rolling hills Park and he wanted to correct the
assumptions regarding park dedication ,and the completion of
trails; that 6 aures of trailway and pare has or will be
developed. tie 'stated the plan preserves the trees and the
pond is protected by a drainage easement. He stated,that he
became Involves in the development of Ivy P<:rk 11 three
months ago and that this .land cost 1/3 more than that
purchased for Rolling gills Park.. stated neither he 'nor
his represehtatves had said there ;would be no building on
this lend and that all buyers were tofu to check with the
City.
Dan Wlsdor , 4.R30 Union Terrace Lane,inquired V oiling
Hills Park' and. the proposed area for development had been
combined, would an EAW have been required? ootdinato.
Mc `unh responded thts would not have heen the case, the area
of development` dirk not exceed the th eslhhol.ds for o
mandator AW.
Pae 254
Plaui ting 'omuuission nuttes
November 61 1985
arr s d Sly Union Terrace Lane, stated that he recbg-
ni es the rights of private ownership but the 0welopm. ent as
proposed is not taking into account the environmental
features of the land dfid he expects that an AW will, be
completed..
Diary Shimshock, : 4560 Union Terrace lane, stated that she
understood the DMR had established the High Water Elevation
at 913. Engineer C ldberg stated the DNR has preliminarily
established the elevation and w4lt review further Informa-
tion before making their final determination.
Dane Carroll (nes card) stated he has .lived in the area 1
ve rs; that lie slid not i ant Rolling Hills Park to 'develop
because of the need for extension bf Valley Forge lane which
was very costly, He stated he was not given the change to
speak aqairwst the Rolling Hills Park development. Mr.
Carrell offered to speak further tylth those residents
interested purchasing Viis_ .land,
Chairman Stelgerwald closed the Public,Hearing.
MOTION by Commissioner Pauha, seconded by Commissioner HOTION TO APPROVE
Magqus to recommend approval for the Residential . Planned
Unit Development veep : Plan subject o the e ndittons as
stated in true October 23, 1955 staff report..
Commissioner Pauba stated he Is sympathetic to the residents
best the, landowner Is ithin his rights to request approval
for development of his land and the develdpm.,tit plans are
within the guideline f the City's Codes and } ilr ahees
Commissioner Stulberg stated the Commission must carry out
their charge by reviewing proposal against the the Ordin-
ance. The variances) which include the PUD size requlre-
meht# meet tie criteria anvil the developer has Included
additional land area as dlrented by {the City Council. He
reiterated that the the Enqtneering,, Fire., and Public Safety
Departments have supported the v ri iti e for the cul-de-sac
length*
Roll Call VOTE. 5 Ayes. MOTION dallied. VOTE MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Magnus inquired about Lint 1) Block
1
4 on the
northeast side., , and ' whether the rear of this lot would be
under water. Engineer Coldberg explained the easement and
that here is sufficient area: for setback to a home,,
Page 2155
Planning Commission Minutes
MOTION by Commissioner Magnust seconded by Commissioner NOTION TO APPROVE
Paulro to recomatend approval for the Preliminary ' fan/plat,
Rezoning, Conditional Use .hermit, and Variance subject to
the conditions " as stated in the 0otober Z1, 1985 staff
report.
Roll Call t` ,' . 5 Ayes. MOTION carried. VOTE NOTION CARRIED
nurdtnator Mc nn stated that these who are Interested an
the c. 4,.ty Council meeting can contact the Planning Division
at the malty for confi coati -i of that date. Chairman
t igerwald explained the City "'Ouncil forum.
Chairman Stei erwald called -a 10 minute Recess at 11:05 P.M. RECESS
Chairman Steigerwald introduced the request by Micilael ICHAEL FRE
and an overview fthe October 1985 stafreport1 RZONN,PRELIMINARY
iy}( was, made bv Coordinator j1 4 34 Chairman }lxkal
t4a° i k.Y + P.ii+ CONDITIONAL
Freund
duced Cdr., nary Gabriel, representing the pmt itioner PERKT,. AND VARIANCE
85108
Chairman Steigerwa.ld opened the Public Hearing..
Mr. Marlyn Ervasti, 13110 ',tth Avenue Northt stated he is
not ar ti -levo o men , however, atjs question relates to the
zoning designation of this property and he wonders it the
1 zoning will conflict with thi proposal. Coordinator ,
McC'onn explained the Land Use Guide Plan which Its intended
to allow development with a density of 5 to 5 units per acre
and that single family dwellings are allowed as a con-
ditional use in the It -21 Zoning District.
j4r.. l roast! notead that the platshows development of :the
l.ot, at the northeast corner only for Phase l., and inquired
whether thc undeveloped land could be sold and multiple
housing developed which would not he in _keeping with the
surrounding neighborhoods.. He stated his opinion that the
area should he rezoned to R -1A,. Chairman Strigerwald
explained that approval for any development other than what
Is requested would need to go through the review process,,
John 3. Grant, 3605 Vinewood Lanes stated -he was also ccn-
cerned with the zoning and would like to knc•v what type ..
housing is proposed. Chairman Steigerwald stated
developer is not .required to commit to pricing ,the singl ,
farily homes and the Commission does not get involved In the
fjoanc cal aspects of development. Mtohael .Freund stated the
games will be in keeping with the neighborhood and will be
upscale Ill their design
Pages 256
Planning Commission Minutes
November 6t"1385
arc 3ohnson, 5 Rosewoodane stated his concern regard
Ing drainage because of the marsh area and h; does not want
construction debris, eater and mud draining onto his
property.,
Engineer Goldberg anti :nary Gabriel confirmed that there will
be a storm eater. ctv urt to cgmn rol the floe to the east
with a pipe ander Rosewood Lane.. There will be erosioncon-
trol barriers such as silt fence and hay bales if necessary
to supplement the fiber material.
Richard Knust, 13140 37th Avenue North, inquired abotit the
fill and Li.-adi.no that will be red sired. Dennis, Saari,-
resentinq r ., d veh per, stated the grading will be uni orsi#
with no severe drop otf,. Mr. Gabriel added ;that grading
ill be dote for the installation of the cul-de-sac. Mr.
hast inquired about the value of the homes to he construct-
ed. Mr. Gabriel stated there seems to be a gond demand for
the types of homes already built in. this area and the new
home; will be similar to those in the Heritage Estates and
West developments*
Kathryn Peterson, 3515 osewood Lane., stated her concerns
regarding the environment and the drainage from this area.
he stated they have problems with damp basements. and they
do not want these matters made worse. She is also concerned
about the noise levels as the traffic noise from 1-494 has
Increased due to the removal of gees in the area. She re-
quested that noise harriers be considered as part of this
development. She stated the residents have paid:more to
live dere and runt their neighborhood to remain oncrowded
and quiet.
Chairman Steeigerwald inquired about any drainage onto the
Peterson property. Engineer Goldberg stated he would stop
by to talk with her to see what can be don i ho evert drain-
age ori l 1 be directed to the pond on-site and he cannot see
that her property will be impacted by drainage from this
development*
Arlene Johnson$ 3535 Rosewood Lane, explained the drainage
problems they have had at their home.
Mr. Ervasti reiterated his concern regarding the zonincj o
this property and encouraged that it be rezoned to R -1 A.
Coordinator NeConn explained this would not be consistent
with the Lund Ilse Gide Plan
Mr. Johnson inquired about the amount 6f Fill and where it
will be placed, lir, Saari explained the grading and: filling
plans. City Engineer Goldberg stated any one who has con=-
cerns regarding the erosion control once work begins, should
call the City's Engineering Department.,
Pae 257
Planning Commission Minutes
November 6t 198
Mr. Knust inquired If a builder could construct a dupley, on
any of the lots. Chairman St gerwa,Ld confirmed that build -
Ing permits would be for single family residential units
only if this proposal. Is approved. Any amendments to the
approved General Development Paan. requires City revreiv, and
approval.
Ms. Peterson reiterated that to maintain adequate erosion
control and minimize the noise, the trees should not be
removed.,
Chairman Steiqerwald closed the public Hearing.
MOTION by Commissioner Pauha,, seconded by Commissioner MOTION APPROVE
Stulberg to recommend approval for the Rezoning, , Preliminary
Plat, Conditional Use permit, and Variance for Michael
Freund subject to the conditions as stated In the October
l, 198 staff report.
MOTION to Amend by Chairman Steigerwaldl. seconded by Commis- MOTION TO AMEND
sioner_ auba *o. add Condition No. 14 that there be as little
disturbance as possible relative to the grading, and filling
for Lots 11 21 32 and 4 of the first phase of development.
yy-}}yy,y+r a ator McConn recalled if the Commission has consideredCoordinatorx.'vFord..s
allowing a reduced front yard setback to .sago trees at the
rear of the lots., Chairman Steiqwald stated he preferred
to leave the condition as stated.
Roll Call VOTE on the Amendment. 4Ayes. CommIssioner VOTE MOTION TO
tu.lber t Nay.. MOTION carried. AMWO, CARRIED
Roll Call VOTE on MAIN MOTION, as once Fended. 5 Ayes. VOTE MAIN MOTION
MOTION carried. MOTION CARRIED
Chairman Steigerwald tntr)NNdt,,ced the request by Bob Fields 808 FIELDS AND
and Brian Zubert. He regi ested an overview of the October BRIAN ZUf3E T
1985 staff report by Coordinator McConn.. U--DQ-CA3WASH
GENERAL DEVELOPMENT
Charman Stei er ald ;introduced Bob Fields, 8799 Magnolia PLAN AMENDMENT,,SITE
ane, who, explained the request and the. unique layout ,and PLAN, CONDITIONAL USE
de-sitPERMITnofthefactlgty AND "VARLAWE.
65109
Chairman Stel erwald Inquired how many facilities are in
operation at this time, Mr. Fields explained the facility
at Bismarck, M.D. that 'ias been operating for 8 months.
They had some circulation problems there but they have been
corrected the problem. He stated they have eliminated out-
side drying :stalls to eliminate the vehicles being parked on
or off-site to ,finish the drying process. They will. police
Page 2158
planning Commission minutes
November 1 198
the area to .assist with any stacking problems tbat could
arise. Chairman Steigerwald Inquired if the facility will
be attended; Mr. Fields' stated tnere will be attendants
present during all hours of operation.. He noted that the
Inside stalls have been well revelved, especial.y in the
winter ;months.
Chairman t lge Wald is uired' how th Fy would prevent custom-
ers from parking on their site to go across the street to
purchase lunch (for example) Mrs Fields stated this would
not be a problem and they would consider policing their own
site.
Commissioner dellen stated his concern about traffic in the
area of the fast food businesses on 28th Place and it sums
this facility would add to ;that congestion. tor. Fields
stated he plans `;signage that should limit the stacking prob-
lem by letting the cus .,,, er know the estimated w --ting
period (45 minutes) at various points. Commissioner Hellen
stated he prefers the flow-through design with the parking
stall design as a back -cep only. Mr. Fields explained the
procedures to be used when stacking .lanes are full.
Chairmen Stcigerwal ,stated there dial not appear to be ade-
quate space for a customer to exit if he 'dial not wish to
wait. Mr. Fields explained d, broadcasting system that can
be tuned In on the custom r"s car radio for education on the
use of the facility,
hairman Steigerwald opened the Public Hearing.
Bill Cadtk , '5824 Gettysburq CIE,elep disagrees with the
statement by staff that the parking requirements are ret
with this facility. He stated that this carwash is much
larger than his business and his lot ` stacks 55 cars. He
addressed the water connection fees for this facility. He
stated it is his opinion that there will . be more than 17
cars stacked causing traffic to stop and back-up on the oul -
d -sac. lie stated his concern regarding setting a precedent
in allowwinq the ,variances as proposed.
Kent Coulson, stated he representSL Burger King Restaurant and
is concerned about the problems with traffic circulation on
this cul-de-sac. Re stated customers facing a 45 minute gait
at this facility will try to back out onto the roadway. He
noted the problems with controlling semi -trailer track
traffic as well, as automobile traffic and, when Arby's Roast
Beef Restaurant opens, it will be worse. He stated that the;
established restaurants on Z8th Place must have a free flown
of traffic for their businesses. He stated they have as
many as 200 cars coring through their drive-through and this
does not include the oars parked on site;
age 2 59
Planning Commission Minutes
November 6t V85
Chairman Stelgerwald Inquired about their Saturday bus-
iness. qtr. Coulson stated ,business is not as heavy on
Saturdays and comes later in the day, however, there is more
business on Saturdays Juring the summer months.
Jim Lindstrom, Hopkins, stated tie is associated with the
Hopkltis car care and 1ttat this is ,i good eonoep . qtr.
Cadtke stated he agrees it is a qood concept but It won't
fit on<this 'particular lot.
Mr. Fields stated they would not serve semi -trailer trucks
and It is just a matter of education of the ` Customer ` to
eliminate sta-klnq and parking problems*. He stated that his
peaty traffic times will not coincide with the restaurants.
He stated that Saturday will ' be a better business day for
his facility but his business wwi,ll be early in the day and
the summer kw x,-tths, are slow for oarwwash ,operations.
Chairman Stei erwwal,d inquired how many oars he: could expect
du inq the winter monthMrsFields ' estimated "3 0 to 400
cars on an average. Chairman Stelgerwald inquired about the
amount of stacking at Arby's* Co,rdinator McConn explained
the Or i nance requirements*
s reiterated that he will have employees on-site toMfr. F`eld i
police the traffic and that they would turn' people away If a
stacking problem arises. Commissioner` Magnus Inquired about
the number of slacking spaces at the carwwash on Broadway in
Crystal as used as an example by Mfr. Fields. Mr. Fields
stated they have 14 stacking spaces. Commissioner Magnus
st;ited tie has found that even with adequa-e stackin $ traf-
fic congestion can and does occur,
wwairman St igerKwwald closed the Public Heiring.
Commissioner Stulberg stated he I$ concerned that an escape
drive lane is not .included on this site plan. He feels that
the number of variances that would be needed" for ars office
building, if the use should chance,, would make it necessary
for the building to remain a oarwwash Commissioner pauba
concurred and stated his concern ' wwitn traffic control for
the area. He, stated he would like to see' this facility in
an ,area where the traffic is not so congested, Mr . Fields
stated they could design an escape drive lane, Commissioner
Stul,berc noted they would lose stacking space with the
installation of an escape drive lane. Chairman Steigerwald
stated he shares the concerns regarding the stacking plan,
escape lane, and alternate wise.. lie stated the Commission
could defer recommendation with direction for re-des:icni or,
could recommend denial and the request would go forward to
the City Council for final action.
Nanning mmissiot'l • inures
November 6$. 1985
Hr. .ids Inquired a kr.- ',ati it 'v `4= e kX. f tlnOther Site I'd
the time required to re-view his application 1f this were the
case. After further discussion Mr. Fields statedd hey *ould
withdraw they request and look for another situ if an
alternate design ann t be prepared.
NOTION by Commissioner Stulber9j, seconded by -Commissioner NOTION TO DEFER
Hagnus to recommendmend deferral of this application for the
reasons cited in the l;o e"r 24, 1985 staff report.
Roll Call VOTE 5 Ayes. MOTION carried. VOTE - MOTIO14 CARRIED
MOTION by Commissioner; thig us, seconded by Commissioner CRAIG
Paubd to recommendnd approval of t;te._ Consent Aqenda that SITE PLAN FOR
included they request by Craig. `r°eman for Site Paan appro al WILLOW GROVE
for they Willow Greve, Shoppinq Center Phase l subject to SHOPPING CENTER
the, conditions as stated in they too r 2 ,. 19 staff 100)
report,
OT 4 Ayeso, MOTION carried.
AWOURNMENT
They meeting. adjourned at 12: A.M.