HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 12-19-1979PLANNING COMMISSION MxINUTEs
City of Plymouth
December 19, 1979
The regular meeting :of the Plymouth: Planning Commission was called 'to order by
Chairman Schneider at 7:30 p.m. in the Council Chambers of the Plymouth City
Center at 3400 Plymouth Boulevard.
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Schneider, Commissioners Wire, Larson, Steigerwald,
and Barron.
MEMBERS ABSENT; Commissioners Vasiliou and Thre nen.
STAFF PRESENT:: Community Development Director Blair Tremere, Community
Development Coordinator Marvin Ray, Planning Secretary
Barbara Anderson.
Don Myron (7R79)Preliminary Plat Approval
This item was introduced by staff who reviewed the December 14, 1979 staff
report. The petitioner is proposing a preliminary .plat of 35 single family lots
on approximately 19.2 acres, southeast of Kreatz Lake.
Staff explained that the public hearing had been ;scheduled, per ordinance, and
that following the hearing, -the item should be continued so that several
informational requirements could be met, as set forth in the Engineer's
Memorandum.
Commissioner Barron inquired as to whether the 1977 concept done by Bonestroo
Associates in conjunction with utility installations if used by the petitioner,
would include any variances. Staff responded that this was possible, but
generally concepts consider the ordinance minimum requirements.
Chairman Schneider recognized Don Myron, who was present to answer questions
regarding his petition. Mr. Myron stated that the 1 -and immediately adjacent to
Highway 1.01 was owned by both the City of Plymouth and the State of Minnesota
and that he had been informed that it would be available to him in order for him
to be able to access Highway 101 when the time came for finalplatting. This
will be done in any manner that the City may require. Staff verified the owner-
ship of the property. Mr Myron also stated that Mrs. Karel doesn't want to
sell him any more of her property to the east than she already has at thi's time.
This would make access from the proposed plat onto Dunkirk Lane not possible at
this time.
Mr. Myron also stated that he had been aware of the concept proposed by Bonestroo
for some time but that he had been informed that the lots were substandard, and
did not conform to ordinance requirements. This was a reason why the present
conf i duration is proposed.
Commissioner Barron noted the {proposed design required several variances and
asked staff to comment;. it was explained the proposed deficient lots had
e approximately 1.6,1.00 square feet (versus 18,500) and the others had widths of
approximately 80 feet (versus 110 at the ordinance minimum setback line).
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES2- December 19, 1979
Staff also commented that the proposed east boundry represents a division of the
Karel property which has not been approved by the City, the Karel property could
be included in the plat without further land being solei to the petitioner.
Regarding the issue of the cul-de-sac at the end of Fountain Lane to the south
he stated he has not been fully aware of before, but will do what is best for
the area and plat.
Chairman Schneider declared the public hearing open.
Bill Pribble of 17200 19th Avenue North, expressed concern regarding the
trail extensions from the north and the way then would be laid outinthe
plat. They have a lot of tresspassing by people from the lake area. He also
commented on the Highway 101 right-of-way access, stating that access is legally
there now.
Mr. Galen Blomster of 15935 -- 21st Avenue North stated that he was concerned'
about the orainage system along the north and about the berming to the north.
He stated that runoff now empties into the subject property, and expressed
concern about what would happen to it should the land be altered. Chairman
Schneider commented that `the Engineer's Memo indicated further data was
needed, and that those concerns would lie addressed.
Mr. Jack Hill of 1725 Garland lane expressed concern with roads and access,
and stated that he was opposed to connecting Fountain Lane within the proposed
plat so as to have a through street. He felt that east -west routing was best
for traffic flow, with access and egress onto major thorotjghfares being the
proper solution.
Mr. Ron Herbst of 1755 Garland Lane ,Yho expressed concern «'-.out the topographical
changes that will 'take place. He is concerned about the landst.aping, and
stated that he did not want to see Fountain Lane go through. Staff stated
that the original' planning for Fountain Lane had been that it would connect in
the fir; tire; the cul-de-sacs were temporary. Mr. Herbst inquired as to the
petition tights of neighbors if the Commission v,ecommends that the street be
put through? Mr. Herbst was directed to contact staff at City Hall as to future
meetings on this plat,
Mr. Alan Ziskin of 16925 - 21st Avenue North was concerned about the drainage
along the north boundary. He stated that he was also concerned about the
traffic should Fountain Lane be connected, but stated that he was not opposed
to this development, and in fact, favored it. lie sugyested a connection to
Dunkirk Lane would be helpful. He inquired about what provisions for play
areas the developer was proposing. Staff responded that play areas were provided
in the school property to the south, and -the trail corridors would provide
means to reach them,
Mr. Mile Merriman of 15915 - 21st Avenue North was concerned about the terming
and the elevation of the property. He stated that he had a proposal for the
egress/ingress for this property; to connect the east -west road between Hwy.
101 and Dunkirk Lane with Fountain Lane to the south only, leaving
the existing cul-de-sac as it is, which would leave the Fazend'in Addition
traffic unable to go i i°rough.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES .,3. December 19, 1979
Mrs. Marie Struss of 1775 Garland Lane spoke regarding the traffic on the hill
on Fountain Lane in its present condition and stated that she felt if fountain
Lane were to go through, these existing problems would be multiplied greatly.
Mr. Rave Willits of 1745 Garland Lane expressed concern with traffic from the
north through the south area:. He also expressed concern with the drainage, as
the north elevation is greater than the southern elevation.
Petitioner responded to the comments of the persons who spoke. Regarding the
trails, he stated that at this time he did not know spe'ifically how they would
be laid out. Regarding the nort! berm, he stated that the state had mined
gravel there, and he said the hill should be lowered. He stated that he did
not feel there would be drainage problems. as they were considering the elevations
of the surrounding properties along wilCh those of the proposed plat. He stated
there were several possibilities for street alignments, and these could he
worked out with the City.
Chairman Schneider closed the public hearing.
MOTION by Commissioner tore, seconded by Chai man Schneider, to take action on
this petition tonight
MOTION CARRIED 4-0-1 Commissioner Barron Opposed
stating this was not appropriate
if the item is to be deferred..
MOTION by Commissioner 'Marron, seconded by Commissioner Wire to defer the petition ..
for Don Myron for preliminary plat approval to permit the petitioner to work with
City staff' subject to the following direction::
1. All the Karel property be. incorporated into the plat.
2. That all variances be eliminated.
3. Provide for all trail corridor linkages.
Discussion ensued, and CorQnissioner Barrc, state.. staff should not design the
plat, that the Planning Commission is not comprised of engineers, and the plat
should be fully designed and complete before it is brought back before the
commission. Ho stated all the Karel property should be reviewed and that the
substantial width and area variances were not •-tiecessary in a new plat.
MOTION to amend by Commissioner Wire, seconded by Commissioner Steigerwald with
the addition of the following conditions:
4. Plans to include proposed means of achieving right-of-way access to both
State Highway 101 and Dunkirk Lane.:
5. Provision for completion of Fountain Lane cul-de-sac from the south if
Fountain Lane is not to proceed through the plat, as a design considera-
tion.
MOTION to amend by Chairman Schneider, seconded by Commissioner Steigerwald,.
with the following additional condition;
PLANNING 'COMMISSION MINUTES -4- December 19, 3979
6., The City Engineer's memorandum shall be part of the direction and that
the petitioner shall submit a cross section profile of the elevations
of the property both existing and proposed between 21st Avenue North
and the south boundary.
Discussion ensued, with Commissioner Barron stating that he disagreed with both
amendments; be felt the Planning Commission was getting into .engineering design.
He stated the direction of the main motion should resolve the problems and would
be subject to further Commission review.
Chairman Schneider called for a vote on the second amendment.
MOTION CARRIED
1 4-0-1. Commissioner Barron Opposed
Chairman Schneider called for a vote on the first amendment.
MOTION CARRIED 4-0-1 Commissioner Barron Opposed
Chairman. Schneider called for a vote on the main €notion as twice amended.
MOTION CARRIED 5-0-0 All in Favor
MOTION by Cha. -man Schneider, seconded by Commissioner Steigerwald to direct staff
to renotify those property owners present when the item is rescheduled.
MOTION CARRIED 5-0-0 All in Favor
eig ton tit. Larsscn for Kimberly Meadows 7906.2 Conditional Use Permit and
Site Plan Approval
This item was introduced by staff who reviewed the December 14, 1979 staff report,
and the 'Engineer's Memorandum. Staff explained several Engineering related items
had ;yet to be resolved and that the item should either be deferred or conditioned
that the matters be reviewed prior to Council consideration should the Commission
recommend approval.
Commissioner Steigerwald inquired about the distance of the adjoining church
property from the petitioner's property; staff responded that it etas approximately
120 feet away.
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. Bob Stroot who spoke representing Dr. Leighton
Larsson. Ile stated that this was a joint venture with foisclair Corporation. He
commented on the staff report. He stated that the requests for variances were
consistent with those of another application that the Planning Commission has
already reviewed 'Dominium Group). `here is a minimum number of persons that
will he able to live in these units and there will be a large open space in
anticipation of there being children in this. development. They will worst with
the Fire Department on an acceptable mode of access.
Discussion regarding. the MHFA study ensued, and the amount of storage provided.
All units will have basements, which should provide the needed storage for each
family. The basements will be unfinished, and ,ised mainly for storage and off-
season play areas for children.
PLANNIr.G cOCOMMISSIONMINUTES December 19, 1979
Chairman Schneider declared the public hearing open
Mr. Edwin L. Brunken of 17200 - 1.4th Avenge North asked about the distance
between the buildings and property lines. Staff responded that the townhouses
were 25 feet from the property line which in turn was approximately 50-50 Meet
from the neighbors houses. Mr. Brunken also inquired about the drainage and
where the wager would go. Staff referred to the Engineer's Memorandum, which
states that the drainage needs to be revised and a storm sewer system provided,
so that the water will go to a ponding area. Environmental Assessment Worksheet
process is not mandatory for this project; however, the City kill consider
environmental concerns.
Mr. Clave Johnson of 17250 - 14th Avenue North expressed concern about the
walkway around the rear of the project, and the berming, -
Mr. Ed Bell, the architect on the project, stated that the rear walkway was to
provide ladder access to the Fire Department,: and since there were no exits
from the townhouse units to the rear, it would be seldom used. The focus of
the Townhouse units was to the center of the project, where all entrances to the
units are 1pcated, and open space is provided. The berm across the rear of the
project is designed for screening: as well as the landscaping which will be
provided, which will keep the division more distinct between the properties.
Mr.. George Milson of 1.714 - 14th Avenue North stated that he was concerned
about the grading which would occur, and what the difference would betweenthe
existing property level and the future propi:rty level. Mr. Bell responded
stating that the property would be filled to bring it up to an acceptable
standard and provide adequate drainage. Mr. Wilson stated that he presently
has a drainage problem, and Mr. Bell stated that the property would drain
toward the road and away from his property. Mr. Milson stated that he favored
the development, and cautioned about children's safety in crossing County Road
6 to the elementary school.
Chairma,,i Schneider closed the public hearing.
Mr. Stroot commented on the proposed management and the inspection programs
by the state; he stated the project would be under single ownership.
MOTION by Cia rman Schneider, seconded by Commissioner Wire to act on this
petition this evening.
MOTION CARRIED 5-0-0 All in Favor
Commissioner Steigerwald inquired whether outdoor electrical outlets were
considered it lieu of garages. Mr. Stroot responded in the negative.
MOTION by Commissioner Barron, secondedby Commissioner Wire to recommend
approval of tete Conditional Use Permit and Site Plan subject to the following
conditions.
I. Compliance with the City Engineer's. Memorandum, deleting item No. 15.
2. Detailed definition of opzn space/play areas (equipient and area).
PLANNING COMMISSION -MINUTES .0. December 1.93 1979
3. Payment of Park Dedication Fees in accordance with Park Dedication Policy
i
in effect at the time of building permit issuance.
4. Any signage shall be in accordance with the ordinance and re -viewed by
the Planning Commission
5. Compliance with City Council Policy Resolution. No. 79-80 reg?rding develop-
ments adjacent, to or containing storm water drainage.,
6. Required site performance financial guarantee shall be termed for 24 months.
7. Fire hydrant and fire lane location .and design shall be per City Code and
Fire Chief .recommendation.
S. Compliance with City Policy Resolution NQ. 79-73 regarding curbing and
site drainage requirements,
9. Variances, per approved plans, shall be as follows
1) Variance from the requirement of garages to be constructed as part
of the units.
2) Variance from the 1 1I2 parking spaces per unit with 1 enclosed
parking space.
3) Variance to Locate prvate drive ten feet froth the property line.
10. Trash disposal facilities sh91,71 be in ;compliance with ordinance design
cr ; feria.
U. The landscaping shall be enhanced to reflect 37.12" diameter deciduous trees
and 6' high evergreen trees.
M)TION by Commissioner Wire to amend to increase evergreens on the south side
f the property, staggered as the ones on the east to provide more screening.
Discussion ensued regarding the overall landscape design.,
motion failed for lack of a second.
MOTION by Chairman Schneider, seconded by Commissioner Steigerwald to amend to
add Conditinyr :#12
12. The plans shall be reviewed with the City Cagineer be4xe this petition is
presented to the City Council,to resolve the matters noted in the Fngineer's
Memorandum.
MQTION CARRIES 5-0-0 All in Favor
MOTION: by Chairman. Schneider, seconded by Commissioner Stei gerwa1'd to add
Condition #13
Ell
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -7- December 19, 1979
13. 15 outside electrical outlets on posts shall be installed in the parking
areas in proportion to the parking stalls, located along the perimeter of
the site.
MOTION CARRIED 5-0-0 All in Favor
MOTION by Chairman Schneider, Seconded by Commissioner Barron to add Condition
14
14. The berm on; -the south side shall be changed so the low area by building ##6
shall be decreased from 50 feet to 20 feet, and added cuts may be made if
needed for drainage.
MOTION CARRIED
MOTION by Chairman
addition of 1 1/2"
border.
AWO All in Favor
Schneider to amend that the landscaping be enhanced by the
diameter Russian Olive trees to be planted along the south
Motion failed for lack of a second.
Chairman Schneider called for a vote on the main motion as thrice amended.
MOTION CARRIED 5-0-0 All in Favor
The meeting recessed at 10:30 p.m. and resumed at 10:35 p.m.
St. Paul Companies, Inc. A-693 Revised Preliminary Plat R
General Development Plan
The staff report reading was waived since only the petitioner's representatives
were present, and Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. Rick Sathre who represented
St. Paul. Companies.
Chairman Schneider inquired as to why a ponding outlot was proposed to be
given to the City. Mr. Sathre responded by stating that the pondis going to
be taking water from a larger area than before, the present engineering plans
for the area call for excavation of the marsh area which would create something
that is not aesthetically pleasing, and they have been advised by j.heir client
that the! legal counsel has informed them of posse; bl e liability probl vias, If
this can be deeded to the City they would not have to worry about this,area.
Chairman Schneider commented that then these problems would become the City's
problems, rather than those of -the developer, as they ar,, now.
Discussion on these points ensued, with the general consensus of the Pl,)nning
Commission being that the City Council had set a desirable precedent, such as
the Volp Industrial Park and Playhouse Industrial park 2nd Addition plats by
not accepting ponding areas for public ownership.
Mr. Sathre commented on the Engineer's Aemorandum, and noted that condition #g
is more related to site plan approval than the concept plan. He stated that
Condition #11 has not yet been resolved and would not be at this time.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES w3- December ?9., 1`979
Staff responded that these matters Were specifically addressed since the request
involved both a preliminary plat and a general development plan amendment; it is
necessary to :reference such -items ,now so future questions will be minimized as to
intent.
Commissioner Steigerwald left the meeting at 11:07 p.m.
Mr~. Sathre stated that he felt concern with Condition #4 regarding who develops
the trail.
f
Staff responded that the intent was that the developer of the specific parcel
would be responsible for trail ipprovements per Pari. Dedication Policy, although
under some circumstances the City might proceed with some improvements once the
land was available.
Mr. Sathre commented on the early petitions to develop the land by the
applicant who preferred to keep separate the multiple re-idential portion from
the commercial; he commented the original plans predated -the ordinance M.P.U.D•
provisions. Staff responded that last year, at petitioner's request, the
residential portion viest of Nathan Lane was split for the platting of Nathan
Trails by an interest who had no ownership control o, the multiple portion.
Staff explained that in order to retain the PlannedDevelopment features of
the area and to comply with the preliminary platting, the multiple residential
portion should he considered in conjunction with the commercial part, through
final platting.
Mr.'John Gabrielson of Caldwall Banker stated the petitioner wasconcerned that
various density provisions for the multiple residential portion be retained,
staff s,")t*ed that was also reason to keep the east and gest portions of the
development together through the platting process.
MOTION by Commissioner wire, seconded by Commissioner Larson to recommend
approval subject to the following conditions;
1, Compliance with the City Engineer's Memorandum.
2. Compliance with applicable provisions of Council Resolution 78-747, 748,
and 749 as adapted to the revised plans.
3. Deletion of proposed.0utlof A and incorporation of the ponding area into
adjacent commercial lots with appropriate drainage easements granted to
the City.
4. Provision for a 20 foot corridor adjacent to 45th Avenue North and: to
Nathan Lane in Outlot B.
5. No building permits to be issued until final plat is filed and recorded
with Hennepin Cnunty.
Chairman Schneider requested that it be noted in the minutes to reflect that a
desirable precedent has been sett and retention of ponding areas by developers.
LOTION CARRIED 4-0-0 All in Favor
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES .9_ December 19, 1979
Four Seasons Shoeping Center (7--683) Revised Sign Plan
MOTION by Commissioner Barron, seconded by Commissioner Wire to defer this
petition, as no one was present to represent the petitioner.
MOTION CARRIED 4-0-0 All in Favor
Chairman Schneider commented that more detailed graphics of existing and proposed
signs should he available, and that property owners along the east side of
Nathan Lane should be informed of the scheduled meeting.
5Adscape riiteria,
In other business the Commission reviewed the second draft of the proposed
landscape criteria and policy standards. Staff noted various editorial revisions
and corrections on the second draft which reflected input from the December 12,
1979 meeting.
Extensive discussion centered on item number 4 and the proposed minimum number of
trees for various sites. Commissioner Barron stated that it was clear the number
of trees per formula should be researched further since the proposed approach
seemed excessive, at least in certain circumstances. He stated a more proportion-
al requirement should be developed. Staff responded that this could be done by
researching approved completed developments and approved site plans and that this
effort had been started since the last meeting but had not been as broad-based as
possible.
During further discussion of items 4 A (1) and 4 A (2), Commissioner Wire suggested
that perhaps one tree per 25 lineal feet rather than 35 lineal feet should be
considered so that the lineal approach would be more in keeping with the area
approach.
Staff discussed item 9 C wherein an effort had been made to provide a bonus
system similar to that applied in the Planned Unit Development section of the
ordinance. Staff explained that comparable area bonus had been applied from the
LA -3 and LA -4. P.M. provisions to the conventional development in R-3 and R-4
zoning districts. Commissioner Barron suggested that such a provision once
adopted should be placed in the zoning ordinance along with the other conventional
multiple residential credits; staff indicated that once the policy was adopted,
many of the revisions would ultimately be incorporated into the zoning ordinance.
Re"ative to item 11 ,which had been revised to encourage the use of underground
lawn sprinkler systems, tommissioner Barron suggested that the Commission
consider a possible incentive for developments which provided for such systems.
Extensive discussion ensued relative to item 12 providing for minimum landscaping
in parking lot areas. The Commission noted that the proposed approach did not
provide realistic landscaping within the designated area and staff indicated that
other approaches were possible. Provisions of the Washington County ordinance and
the Bloomington Ordinance were reviewed.
Following further discussion, staff was directed to further research and revise
the criteria especially regarding a minimum number of trees on the site and the
minimum landscaping requirement for parking lots and to return with a final draft
PLANNING COM14I SION MINUTES -10- ;December 19, 1979
by the second meeting in January.
In other business, Chairman Schneider reviewed the recent Planning and Zoning
Institute he attended.
There being no further business before the Commission, the meeting was adjourned
at 12.-50 a.m.