HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 09-12-1979PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY (IF PL YMODTh
September 12, 1979
A regular meeting of the PlymouthPlanning Commission was called to order by Chairman
SchneidQr at 7:30 p,.m. in the City Council. Chambers, 3400 Plymouth Boulevard,.
MEMJURS PRESENT: Cha4rman Schneider and Commissioners Barron, Vasiliou, Larson
f1irei nen, wire and Std i gerwal d
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Community Development Director Blair Tremere Community Development
Coordinator Mary Rays Planning Secretary Barbara Anderson
Henry E'aber, 22L641 Rezoninq and Preliminary Plat
The item was introduced by staff who reviewed the September 7, 1979 report regarding
the pruperty at the northeast quadrant of West Medicine Lake Drive and 2 th Avenue
North. Staff reviewed the extensive history including the approval of r lot division
and consolidation which involved the subject property as well as the r: istered land
survey tracts immediately to the south. Staff noted that that action~; approved under
Resolution No. 77-704 had nGt been filed with Hennepin County apparently because the
conditions set forth in Resolution No. 77-,705 had not baen satisfied,
Staff explained that the request does not involve the registered land surveyproperty
to the south but that the Com-iiss on should take into account the Future posible
subdivision of that property,
Staff also explained that the matter of Larch Lane which terminates at the north
boundary of the subject property had been reviewed subsequent; to the report, and it
was determined that extension of Larch Lane into this plat was not feasible because ot
terrain,
Regarding proposed. Outlof C, staff commented that a covenant on the title to that
outlot would be a satisfactory means of notice to present and future owners that
usability of the property was tied to development of nand to the south. Staff
explained that an unrecorded deed or con:trac' had been transacted between the petitioner
and the property owner to the south whereby the owner to the south had controlling
interest in the proposed' Outlot C.
Chairman Schneider opened the public hearing and recognized Mr. hick Sathre of McCombs
Knu}son associates who represented the petitioner. Mr. Sathre explained the proposed
plat and commented as to possible future development of the Outlet C and the land to
the south. He stated that it appeared that at least one shared 'driveway to West
Medicine Lake Drive would be necessary and a drive onto 28th Avenue North would be
possible, He commented as 'to the severe topography and as to the poor sight distance
of -the intersection of 2812- Avenue North and West :kledicin.e Lake Drive.
Chairman Schneider commented that regrading in the future might resolve some of the
sight distance difficulties and a brief discussion ensued as 'to the future alighment
of West Medicine lake Drive:
Chairman Schneider closed the public hearing.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING 2- September 12, 1979
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen; seconded by Commissioner Barron to act on this.
petition at this meeting.
MOTION CARRIED 7-o-0 All in Favor
MOTION by Commissioner Threlnen, seconded by Commissioner Barron to make the foll(,wing
recommendation, to the City Council.,
That the request of Mr. Henry Faber for rezoning, from RO to R -1A and for
preliminary plat into tw,olve (12) single family residential lots and three
3) outlots of the approximately 11.6 acre tract at the northeast quadrant
of West 'Medicine Lake Drive and 28th Avenue North, to be tnown as "Faber
Place" be approved subject to the following conditions;
1. Compliance with the City Engineer's 'Memorandum;
2. Convoyance to the City of Outlot A and Outlot D For right-of-way and
utility pruposes;
3. Private drive and access to West Medicine Lake Drive shallbe prohibited;
4. All yard setbacks shall be according to Ordinance minimum standards and
lots shall be redesigned so that the Ordinance 16 foot side yzird setback
can be met;
5. Payment of Park Dedication Fees in, lieu of land dedication 1-n accordance
with City policy ,,n effect at the time of final platting;
6, Nc building permits to be issued until municipal utilities are physically
avk.ilable to the property*
7. Compliance with City Council policy Resolution No,, 79-80 regarding sub-
divi,tions containfing or adjacent to storm water holding facilities;
8. Removal or demolition of all structures not in conformance with City
ordinance standards-,
5. A covenant shall be placed on the title to Outlot C to indicate that the
use of the outlot is intended to facilitate the development and design of
the property to the south.
Commissioner Threinen stated Jiat, as presented, he could not support the concept of
the possitHe platting of the tid to the south and that it appeared use of Outlot C in
this development was vital to ti proper development of that lanO.
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
Gary Gabriel for Keith Stotts (79-017) Final Plat
Staff reviewed the report dated Sr tember 7, 1979 for the proposal located north of
County Road 24 westerly of the intersection of 32nd Avenue North and County Road 24.
MOTION by Commissioner, Barron, seconded by Commissioner Threinen to make the following
recommendation to the City Council:
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES 3- September 12, 1979
That the request of Gary Gabriel for Keith Stotts for approval of "Windsong",
a plat consisting of five single family residential lots and one outlot at
17420 County Road 24 be approved subject to the following conditions. -
I. Compliance with the City Engineer's Memorandum;
2. Payment of Park Dedication Fees in lieu of land dedication in accordance
with the City policy of park dedication at the time of filing of final plat;
3. Compliance with Hennepin County requirements with respect to right-of-way
access onto County Road 24,,
4.
7,
No private curb cuts from propQsed, lots 1 and 5 onto County Road 24;
Compliance with City Council Policy Resolution No. 79-80 regarding minin um
floor elevations for subdivisions contaltning or adjacent to storm water
drainage areas;
Conveyance of all easements as approved by the City Engineer and City
Attorney propr to filing of final plat;
Conveyance and combination of Outlot A with adjacent property pric. to
filing of final plat.
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0: All in Favor
Bpi. & Leo Harris Company (79-035) Final Plat
Staff reviewed the report dated September 7, 1979 for the final plat of Plymouth
Freeway Center 2nd Addition at the northeast quadrant of Harbor Lane and Fernbrook
Lane,
Chairman Schnelukr recognized Mr. Frank Harris representing the petitioner who stated
that he had no objections to the staff recommendations but requested support of his
proposal to defer construction of proposed Empire Lane. Staff commented that the City
Council intended the road to be constructed with the initial platting which coincided
with the expected development of the Holiday Inn Motel on the site adjacent to the
east. Mr. Harris commented that the road did not appear to be necessary at this time
and that dedication of right-of-way would be accomplished with the initial platting.
Chairman Schneiderstated that the petitioner's request related to item 6 of the
September 11, 1979 Engineer's Memo; he stated that he did not feel it was appropriate
for the Commission to amend that report, but rather, if the Commission desired, a
comment could be included in the minutes.
MOTION by Commissioner Wire, seconded by Commissioner Barron to make the following
recommendation to the City Council;
That the request by B. W. & Leo Harris Company for final plat approval of
Plymouth Freeway Center 2nd Addition at the northeast quadrant of Fernbrock
Lane and Harbor Lane be approved subject to the following conditions:
I. Compliance with the City Engineer's Memorandum;
2, Development other than that indicated on the general development plan
dated July 24, 1979 shall be subject to approval of proposed amendments
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES September 12, 1979
to the general; development plan, prior to any such alternate site develop-
ments;
3> Conveyance of all street, utility, and trail easements prior to final
platting,
4. No private drive access onto Fernbrook Lane,
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
Chairman Schneider stated that it appeared to be the consensus of the Commission to
support the petitioner's request for deferring the actual construction of Empire Lane.
Peace Lutheran Church .(A-833) Site Flan
Staff introduced the item and reviewed the report of September 7 1979 explaining that
under Resolution No, 78-405 the City Council had approved the conditional use permit
for a church in the RO'Dstrict at the southwest corner of Medina Road and State
Highway 101. Staff explainedthat than resolution also granted a waiver to Council
Policy Resolution No, 75-664 relative to development in the non-sewered areas of the
community.
Staff commented that the plan proposed a 6,1,68 square foot church on the approximate
5.45 acre site with a 'Future addition indicated of approximately 7,390 square feet.
He stated that the initial plan indicated a 300 person capacity congregational area.
Staff noted that two variances were indicated on the proposed plans; the width of
the driving aisles was defWent by two feet; and the proposed initial building and
future addition were loss than the ordinance required 1.00 feet from future Highway 101
right-of-way, Staff noted that the petitioner had indicated proposed additional right-
of-way for both Medina Road and Highway 101.
Staff suggested that the Commission consider an appropriate park dedication fee in
lieu of dedication for this use; it was noted that the Park Dedication Policy makes
reference to residential developments and to commercial and industrial developments;
but does not specifically reference special Institutional uses such a; this,
Commissioner Vasiliou stated that a park dedication contribution was appropriate and
that something greater than one dwelling unit ($330) should be applied.
Commissioner Threinen noted that the open space on this property to the west of the
proposed building has been used effectively as open space particularly by the school
which is on the adjacent site to the south, He stated this should be considered in
determining a, park dedication fee.
Coir4missioner Vasiliou also commented that the landscaping proposed: appeared to be
entirely appropriate for a church use and that ronmeNcial or industrial standards should'
not be applied.
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr.. Dean Klei,uschm*dt who stated the church does intend
to leave the area on the west portion of thf, ;roperty opc,na In response to a question
by Commissioner Threinen Mr, Kleinschmidt stated that he was not sure shether the
church had an easement with the school property to the sou'h for use of the common
drive from Highway 101; but it was the iiticent of the churl to secure such an easement
and discussions had been held with the school district. Commissioner Threinen stated
this was particularly important since the school parking facilities could be considered
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PLANNING COMMMION MINUTES September 12, 1979
as overflow parking for the church,
Mr, Kleinschmidt stated that it was the intent of the petitioner to install their own
on. -site, septic system and to tie in with the school's existing lagoon.
Mr. Kleinschmidt stated that the petitioner desired to delete the -proposed concrete
curbing along the west boundary of the parking lot primarily in consideration of cost,
he stated that the petitioner was prepared to install a bituminous rolled curb but
that it was not deemed necessary to, have concrete curbing at this time.
Mr, Kleinschmidt stated that the width of the driving aisles would be adjusted to
meet the vidnimum ordinance requirements.
Commissioner Threinen inquired as to the proposed, setbacks and Mr, Kleinschmidt
responded that the setbacks had been established in recognition of future highway
rights-of-way for Medina Road and Highway 101. He stated that the church anticipated
the property eventually would be rezoned to a less restrictive classification, such as
R -1A, when municipal utilities became available; thus variances were requested at this
time for the building setback.
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. D,l Erickson, architect for the petitioner,. who stated
that the petitioner would appreciate the option of using a pre -cast concrete curbing
along the west edge of the parking lot 'to assure openings for drainage while providing
proper, delineation.
Brief discussion ensued regarding the petitioner's concern as to staff recommendation
that evidence be submitted and approved regarding on-site adequate water supply fcr
domestic and fire fighting purposes,
MOTION by Comissioner Vasiliou, seconded by Commissioner Threinen to make the following
recommendation to the City Council:
0
That the request by Peace Lutheran Church -For approval of site plan for a
6,568 square foot 300 perso rapacity church at the southwest corner of Medina
Road and State Highway 101 be approved subject to the 'Following conditions:
1. Compliance with the City Engineer's Memorandum for this project, with
the provision that use of bituminous and/or pre -cast concrete curbing
along the west side of the parking lot shall be permitted,
2. Compliance with the provisions of Council Resolution No. 78-405 approving
conditional use permit and granting waiver for the subject use, especially
with regard to provision for an approved on-site sanitary sewer system.
3. Evidence shall be submitted to and approved by the City with respect to
adequate water supply for domestic and fire fighting purposes prior to the
issuance, of permits.
4. Signs on the sight shall comply with the City Ordinance.
5, All parking lot dimensions shall be in conformance with City standards.
6, Required Site Performance Financial Guarantee shall be termed for 24
months,
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PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -6- September 12. 1979
7. Approval of detailed parking plan shall be required priorto the, expansion
of the seating area, and expansion of the building shall' be subject to
site plan approval: requirements of the ordinance.
8 An appropriate agreement with the school district for use of the common
drive and, if needed, for the use of parking facilities shall be submitted
prior to issuance of permit.
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, seconded by Commissioner Barron to amend the main
motion with the addition of a ninth condition. building setback variances of approxi-
mately 18 feet shall be allowed from future Highway 1.01 right-of-way.
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
MOTION by Commissioner Barron, seconded' by Commissioner Threinen to amend the mai
motion with the addition of a tenth condition:. a park dedication fee in lieu of
dedication in the amount of $330 shall be paid prior to the issuance of permits abased
on the single ftp ly dwelling contribution for a site of this size in the RO District,
noting that the rear area is recognized as an open spacer
Chairman Schneider stated concern with acknowledgement of the rear area. as open space
since it was not being dedicated, Commissioner Threinen stated. he felt it significant
that the church intends to retain this area as open space and that, in fact, it is used
as such particularly by the school.
MOTION CARRIED 74-0 All in Favor
Chairman Schneider called for a vote of the mai-i motion as amended.
MOTIONCARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
Dwight T, Swatosh (79066) Subdivision Variance
Staff reviewed the report of September 7, 1979 regarding the proposed lot consolidation
and division of the property at the northwest corner of Ives Lane and 23rd Avenue North,.
Staff indicated that contrary to the initial application and staff report, the two
parcels have previously been combined and thus the request was only to divide the
property into two new parcels consisting of a Parcel A of approximately 7,270 square feet
and a Parcel B consisting of approximately 6,359 square feet. Staff indicated that the
Parcel A would have approximately 103 feet of public road frontage while Parcel B @uld'
have approximately 1.00 feet of public road frontage; and the lot depth of each would te
approximately 70 -feet. Thus, requested variances relate to area, width and depth.
Commissioner Threinen inquired as to no recommendation for a park dedication fee; staff
explained that where no new lot is being created from existing platted lots, i.e., a
rearrangement of two lots into two lots, no fee is required. Commissioner Threinen
noted, however, that this property had been consolidated and thus a rew lot was being
created.
CornmwNh.oner Threinen also noted the Engineers 'iiemo reference that utility assessments
and charges against the property contemplated two parcels.
Chairman Schneider recognized the petitioner who commented as to the ordinance variance
standards. He explained that there were other similar sized lots in the area and that
14.
LANNING COMMIS"ION MINUTES -7- September 12, 1979
considering ie original platting the proposal was for a reasonable use of the land
that would not present adverse effects for the neighborhood.
k"9TION by Commissioner Wire, seconded by Commissioner Vasiliou to make the following
vecommr dation to the City Council':
That the ..quest of Dwight Swatosh for division of the existing single :parcel
at the northwest corner of Ives Lane and 23rd Avenue Borth into two single
family dwelling parce.s be approved subject to the following conditions;
1. Compliance with the City Engineer's Memorandum;
2. No variances with reepect to setbacks for new structures are granted or
implied;
3. The required easement shall be conveyed as approved by the Ciiy Engineer
prior to fi1'ng.
Comm-nissioner Wire added that the basis for the Variances involved with respect to Area
width and'dcpth is the property has been assessed for two lots and the proposal
represents a better design for two lots than the original platted design.
MOTION CARRIED 7-0.0 All in Favor
Chairman S4nnei4er noted that no one was present representing Minnesota Toro (79047)
and he deferred consideration until later in the meeting.
Sandra O'Hara (79GbO) Conditional Use Permit
Staff reviewed the report of September 10, 1979 and the Planning Commission Minutes of
July 25, 1979 where the item was deferred. Staff also commented as to the letter
submitted by the petitioner indicatina that propo:::i classes could be conducted in the
evening,
Chairman Scbneider recognize the petitioner who stated the proposed classes would be
conducted two to three times per week and could be done after the normal business hours
of the office building.
MOTION by Commissioner Ea: --on, seconded by Commirs`oner Threinen to make the following
recommendation to the City Council
That tf e request of Sandra O'Hara for a conditional use permit to conduct a
diet clinic in the Fox Meadows Off,,e Building No. 1, 3131 Fernbrook Lane, be
approved subject to tthe following conditions:
1. The perm i, 4s issued to the applicant as operator and is not transferable
2, The permit is subject to all applicable codes, ordinances, and regulations,
and violation thereof shall, be grour4s for revocation;
3. Use of the premises as proposed shall be reviewed by the Building Official
and by the Fire Marshall whose reports and requirements shall become part
of this permit;
PLANNING .COMMZS510N MINUTES 8- September 12, 1979
4.. The permit shall be for six months at which time a report shall be,
rov)`ded as to the traffic and parking situation related to the use at
this location,
5 All 'parking related to the use shall ,be on--site in designated parking
spaces;-
Any expansion of the proposed use in teris of physical facilities used.
shall be approved by tha a,ity
7. All classes shall be conducted after 6:00 pm.
MOTION CARkxEa 7-0-0 All in Favor
The meeting recessed at 9rt30 p.m, and resumed at 9:40 p.m..
U. S. Postac Service (A-94Site plan Amendmeri ,
Staff introduced the item and reviewed' the report of September 1C, 1979 relative to the
proposed ,enclosure of the north narking area for which funds had been allocated and r)r
which construction bids were about to be let. Staff explained the concern was with V>'e
notice from the Postal Service that landscaping for the site would be delayed until the
new contract was let for the addition, which implied th(t landscape work would probably
not be undertaken until next year al-;hough the facility ;Las scheduled to open this fall.
Chairman Schneider recognized' Mr. Harvey Erickson who explained that while fund- had
baen a.l'ocated they were not available until bids were let later this year.
Mr. Erickson explained that the initial landscaping funds had been absorbed by the
required grading and especially for the berminq which 'had been required by the L ty;
thus, no funds were left in the initial construction allocation for completing the
landscaping. He stated that ac(-ording to the contractor, the additional landscaping
arid' grading improvements required by the City amounted to approximately $12,000;
Chairman Schneider and Comn.issioner Vasiliou recalled the amount of work and number of
trees which had been added by the pity, and they stated that the contractor's estimate
seemed very excessive for the amount involved.
Commissioner Threinen inquired whether some funds were available for some of the land-
scaping such as a basic seedlog of the site before winter. Mr. Erickson responded that
some funds possibly in the range of $1,000 might be available to achieve a basic ground
c6ver. Staff commented that this would be.essential to assur" reaper erosion control
and soil retention during the fall and early spring months., ». Erickson responded
that petitioner was concerned tha work done this fall woLld not be disturbed next year
when the total landscaping is completed.
Commissioner Vasiliou stated concern about whether the work would be done at all and
inquired as to what assurances the City had.
Commissioner Threinen commented that he could appreciate certain lead time was necessary
considering the nature of government contract procedures, especially if the contractor's
estimate was firm, whether it seemed excessive or not.
Chairman Schneider asked Mr. Erickson ghat assurance the City had that the work would be
done and Mr. Erickson responded that the main assurance that could be offered is that
PLANNING COMMISS109 flTNUTU .g September 12, 1979
the money has been appropriated and is simply awaiting letting of the contract.
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, seconded by Commissioner Barron to make the following
recommendation to the City Council:
That the request by the 'united States Postal Service for site plan amendment
Involving the enclosure of the north parking area be approved subject to the
condition that a temporary effective ground cover for purposes of erosion
control and soil retention be provided until the total landscaping can be
completed when the contract is let for the proposed addition,
Commissioners Threinen and. Barron stated that the recommendation was a practical one
considering that the landscape funds were tied to tine new contract and that it did not
appear there was any immediate effective alternative to assure complete landscapingthisfall' .
MOTION CARRIED 6-0-1 Commissioner Vasiliou Abstained
Nordquist Signs for Harvey Homes (A-604) Sign Plans
The item was introduced by staff who reviewed the August 29, 1979 report, regarding the
requirement of original site plan approval for the building at 10th Avenue North and
Nathan Lane that signs shall be approved by the Commission and, Council
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. Steve Hirtz who represented the petitioner and
extensive discussion ensued regarding the proposed location of the sign at the front
property line. Chairman Schneider inquired as to the grounds for the variance and Mr.
Hertz explained that the depth and the berming of the front green area required the sign
to be as close to the front property line as possible.
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. David Fink who represented Harvey Homes and stated he
was among the Nathan Lane Associates who owned the building. Commissioner Wire inquired
as to why the sign} could not be placed on the building as opposed to being free-standing,
Mr. Fink responded that there was no room for the proposed sign for this tennant since
other signs on the building were for other tennants,
Mr. Hirtz commented that nearby buildings had free-standing signs similar to that
proposed,
Commissioner Threinen stated that the ownership should indicate in writing that the
proposed sign is endorsed with the understanding that the substant-al sign is considered
in terms of the entire building even though it may be devoted to a single tennant.
Chairman Schneider suggested that the item be: deferred so that staff could research the
conditions regarding signs on neighboring buildings and to take photographs of the area
to give a better perspective of the existing signage.
MOTION by Commissioner Vasiliou, seconded by Commissioner'Wire to defier the request by
Nordquist Signs for Harvey Homes so that staff can further review the existing signs in
the area including the basis for permits issued; and to permit the petitioner to submit
a Tetter from the building ownership endorsing the sign as proposed and acknowledging
0 that it would be considered in terms of the entire building and not just for one
tennant,
MOTION CARRIES? 7-0-0 All in Favor
PLANNING COMMISSIQN MINUTisS 41110 September 12, 1979
Nord ui st Sign, -Company for Pl mouth Racquet Club (A-,730 Sin Plan I
Staff reviewed the report of August. 29, 1979 and explained that a condition of the site
plan approval earlier this year was that detailed sign plans be submitted.
Commissioner 'Vasiliou stated concern with the height of the proposed sign, and recalled
that during consideration of the conditional use permit for the use, information was
presented to the effect that the use of the club was by members who made .reservation
for use of the racquet ball courts. She stated that it did not seem necessary to have
such a high sign simply to identify the building for members
Chairman Schneider stated that the magnitude of the sign should be related to the type
of use which was approved as a racquet ball facility oriented toward the employees of
the industrial area of the City who, as members of the facility, would not appear to
need a major sign to find the building.
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. Hirtz who represented the petitioner and who stated
the proposed sign is comparable to other locations owned by the developer; he presented
graphics showing the signs at other locations.
Commissioner Barron noted that the original site plan indicated a sign location which
was consistent with that now proposed. He stated that the sign itself was within
ordinance standards and thus merited approval:
Chairman Schneider stated concern with the original intent of the use to serve a
distinct clientele from the industrial area and not from the region or nearby freeway.
He stated he felt the sign was out of proportion to that type of use.
MOTION by Commissioner Barron, seconded by Commissioner Threinen to approve the sign
for the Plymouth Racquet Club oil Fernbrook Lane south of Highway 55 per the plan sub-
mitted by Nordquist Sign Company, including a variance as to location which was
consistent with that approved with the site plan:
Commissioner Vasiliou stated her belief that the petitioner could revise the size of
the sign to be more in proportion with the use of the site,
MOTION FAILED 3-4-0 Commissioners !lire, Larson,
Vasiliou and Schneider Opposed
because there was no basis for
the locational variance and the
size of the sign was not consistent
with the original intent of the
use.
Commissioner Barron stated his concern that he did not recall a specific discussion of
the need to have a sign in proportion to the nature of the use and he noted that the sign
was within ordinance standards,
Laukka Associates (A-745) Stan
Staff reviewed the report dated September 12, 1979 regarding the proposed entrance
monument sign at Goldenrod Lane and County Road 9 for the Westridge E:stat'as 1st Addi
tion.,
Chairman Schneider rec6gnized Mr, Larry Lauka whQ stated he was seeking two variances;
a size variance to permit a 64 square foot rather than a 32 square foot sign; and a
setback variance to permit a ten foot setback rather than a 20 foot setback, Mr. Laukka
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES _11- September 12, 1979
also noted the submitted agreement as to maintenance and liability for the proposed
sign which would rest with the Homeowners Association for the quadriminium development.
Discussion ensued as to the size of the sign which was double that permitted by the
ordinance. Mr. Laukka stated thpt the sign had been scaled to the size of the develop-
ment and the sight distance considerations in the area, He stated that a smaller sign
would not have the impact intended for a major entrance monument, sign. I k.
Commissioner Threinen stated concern with long term maintenance and Mr, Laukka responded
that he had many such signs with other developments throughout the twiii cities. In
response to aquestion y Chairman Schneider, Mr. Laukka stated that the existing
construction announcement sign would be removed,
Commissioner Wire inquired why an ordinance complying 32 square foot sign would not be
appropriate since it would be visible from the road. Mr. Laukka stated that it would
appear to be too small and out of scale with the size of the development. Commisioner
Threinen stated that he had seen smaller signs in the City which he considered -to be
just as effective,
Regarding the proposed maintenance agreement, Commissioner Barron inquired whether the
City Attorney had reviewed the document; staff responded in the affirmative.
MOTION by Commissioner Wire, seconded by Commissioner Larson to approve the sign plan
as Submitted by Laukka Associates for Westridge Estates 1st Addition at Goldenrod Lane
and County Road 9 subject to the following conditions:
1. No permit to be issued until the propo*,ed sign maintenance and nuisance
agreement has been approved by the Ci,,y Attorney, and filed with the
Homeowners Association documents;
2, The size of the sign shall meet the ordinance square footage requirements,
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, seconded by Commissioner Wire to amend the mainmotion
with the addition of a third condition: that the setback variance is approved in considera-
tion of permitting the sign to be located 'in a symmetrical fashion on the median divider.
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
Chairman Schneider called for a vote on the main motion as amended.
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
Randolph Zedjdlik for Mission Ponds (A-338) Sign Plans
Staff reviewed the report of September IZ, 1979 regarding the proposed entrance monument
sign west of Zachary Lane and North of 36th Avenue.
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. Zedjdlik who stated that the sign could be located at
the ordinance minimum setback rather than as shown on the submitted plans.
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, seconded by Commissioner Barron to approve the Mission
Ponds entrance monument sign as submitted by Randolph Zedjdlik subject to the following
conditions:
1. Compliance with the ordinance size and setback requirements;
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -12 September 1.2, 1.979
2. flainten ince of the sign shall be considered part of the requirements of
the approved Homeowners Association agreement and by laws as approved
by the City Attorney,
MOTION CARRIES_ 7-0-0 All in Favor
Lundgren Bros. Construction, Inc, (A-792) Sign Plans
Staff reviewed the report of .September 4, 1979 relative to proposed entrance monument
for Burl Oaks located at 6th Avenue North and State Highway 101.
Chairman Schneider recognizedMr, Sherm Goldberg and a brief discussion ensued regarding
the recommended conditions,
LOTION by CommissionerBarron, seconded by commissioner Threinen to approve the proposed
entrance monument sign at 6th Avenue North and State Highway 1.01. for Lundgren Bros.,
Construction Company for Burl Oaks subject to the following conditions-.
1. Compliance with the ordinance size and location requirements;
2, That there be a deed covenant for sign maintenance over the entire
subdivision as approved by the City Attorney; to be filed prior to
the permit
3. That there be an easement for the signs on Lot 1, Block 1, and on Lot 1,
Block 3 with evidence of filing submitted prior to issuance of permit.
MOTION CARRIED 7 -O -O All 'n Favor
i' Happy Chef Restaurant (A-830) Site Plan Amendment
The item was introduced by staff who reviewed the report dated September 10,, 1979
regarding the proposed direct access from iernbrook Lane; proposed landscape amendments.
and proposed amendments to the original sign approval;
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. Walter Baker, an attorney representing th:A petitioner,
who stated that regarding signs, the petitioner had blocked out the roof sigl leaving
only the pylon sign, which he understood was permitted under Council Resolution 78-517.
Staff confirmed that the resolution approved either roof signs or the 'Panel on the
shared pylon sign; staff stated that the petitioner should secure the necessary sign
permits since the pylon panel was erected without a permit,
Mr. Baker stated that with regard to landscaping, the petitioner proposed to comply
with the original approved pan with a change in tree species; staff indicated that
there was no objection to the proposed evergreen trees since that was what the original
approval called for Staff clarified that the amended plan was one tree deficient and
that as long as the installed landscapeing is in accordance with the original approval
there is no problem, Mr. Baker stated that the landscaping would be installed as per
the original plan..
iMr. Baker stated the primary con;ern of the petitioner was with access to the site. He
stated that Yie'had motion pictures taken recently of problems with access from 28th
Place North attributable to stacking generated by the Judy's Restaurant next door. He
stated that conditions have changed in the area since the original approval, namely the
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES R13- September 12, 1979
traffic intensity and stacking at Judy's Restaurant; and the upgrading of Fernbrook Lane
10
to include a median divider which had not been anticipated.
Chairman Schneider noted that the July 24, 1978 Cit Council Minutes clearlyindicated
that a Mr. Richard Rice representing Happy Chef acknowledged that he undersood a median
divider was anticipated for Fernbrook Lane, Chairman Schneider asked if Mr. Rice was in
the audience and Mr. Rine acknowledged that he had attended that meeting and was aware of
the divider,
Mr. Baker showed motion pictures taken on August 13th, 15th 17th and 20th which
indicated the traffic congestion and obstruction of the 28th Place driveway due to cars
backing upinto the street from the Judy's Restaurant. Mr. Baker noted! the "snaking
effect" which backed cars all the way to Fernbrook Lane. He stated that the petitioner
had called the Plymouth Police on several occasions and yet the problem continued.
Mr. Baker stated that the petitioner believed a direct access from Fernbrook Lane would
tend to alleviate the problem and would provide for direct entrance for customers turn-
ing right onto Fernbrook. Lane from. Highway 55,
Commissioner Threinen inquired as to what would keep cars from going out the access onto
southbound Fernbrook Lane. Mr. Baker responded •:hat signs could be posted indicating
that it was an entrance only: Commissioner Threinen also stated that the capacity of
the site was limited and that he did not understand how the outbound traffic problem
would be solved given the congestion created by the Judy's Restaurant.
Commissioner Threinen asked kir. Baker if the existing access would be adequate if the
problem created by the Judy's Restaurant stacking were eliminated, Mr. Baker stated
that a major problem would be alleviated if that were accomplished. Commissioner.
Threinen asked whether the direct access from Fernbrook Lane would have been requested
if the Judy's Restaurant were not there and Mr. Baker responded that the petitioner
would need more experience on the site to determine whether a direct drive from Fern -
brook Lane would ever be needed.
Mr. Vernon Beck, also representing the petitioner, stated that there was no objection
to the proposed t:edan in Fernbrook Lane but the main problem was with the traffic
congestion on 28th Place North
Commissioner Threinen asked' Mr. Baker whether the full case for a direct access from
Fernbrook Lane was based on the obstruction caused by the traffic stacking at Judy's.
Mr. Baker responded in the affirmative,
Staff indicated that the Judy's stacking had been observed and that the owner had been
notified that if the problem were not resolved a hearing would be scheduled to determine
why the conditional use permit for the drive up window facility should not be revoked,.
Chairman Schneider noted that Judy's Restaurant was also on the agenda regarding a
proposed landscaping amendment and suggested that representatives of Judy's should
also be heard
eTM.
pert regarding this matter..
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, seconded by Commissioner Wire to defer further
consideration of the Happy Chef Restaurant site plan amendment until later in the
meeting.
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-d All in Favor
1
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -14- September 12, 1979
JA's RestaurantA 802} Landscape Amendment
Staff reviewed the September 11, 1979 memo regarding the status of landscape improvements
on the Judy's site and -the proposed amendments by a landscape architect per the letter
dated August 16, 1979
Staff also reviewed the correspondence and history of 'the traffic stacking problem and
stated that it was apparent the problem had not been resolved although the petitioner
had taken some steps to relieve the intensity:
Chairman Schneider recognized Mr. Robert Larson who stated that following contact by
staff, that the problem was in violation of the conditional use permit; the petitioner
took steps to better control the traffic and had even sought out the assistance Gf an
off-duty police officer. He stated that additional help had been hired and that
measures n;4re taken to keep the-ntrance to V:tppy Chef Restaurant open during the noon,
hour when the problem existed. he stated that there was a problem but he noted that,
in their opinion, it included Happy Chef customers who tend to block the Judy's entrance:
and thus it is a joint problem.
Mr. Larson presented a site plan which proposed that the traffic on the 28th Place
cul--de-sac be reversed, thereby separating the traffic to Judy's from the traffic going
to the Happy chef Restaurant. Staff and Chairman Schneider indicated that this would
not be permitted even on a temporary basis as suggested by the petitioner. Mr. Larson
stated that he had hoped it would be possible to reverse the traffic until such time
that the other sites in the area developed.:
Commissioner Vasiliou stated concern about the present problem in light of the informa-
tion presented by the petitioner last year when the site plan was approved. In i`esponse
to several questions, Mr. `Larson stated that the drive up window represented approximate-
ly 55 percent of the noon time business and that there were some internal problems as to
speed of delivery. Commissioner 4asiliou stated that she had experienced up to five
minutes delay in ordering from the drive up window.
Mr. Larson stated that they estimated approximately 40 percent of the noon time
business would be lost without the drive up window.
Commissioner Threinen stated the basic issue was that the conditional use permit was
originally issued upon assurances by the petitioner that the drive up facility would
not cause stacking problems as demonstrated by statistics of previous operations. Ke
stated that the City now has actual experience and it indicates a severe problem.
Staff inquired as 'to when the main problem existed ar,d "Mr. Baker representing Happy Chef
stated that it was primarily at noon although it Fad been observed at other times.. M.r.
Larson stated that he disagreed, and that he observed the problem at approximately 30
minutes during the week -day noon hours.
Commissioner Wire stated concern with the assurances giver at the time of original
approval regarding the drive in location.
Chairman Schneider reviewed the Planning Commission Minutes of March 15, 1978 where
extensive discussion ensued as to propeN location of the drive up window and concerns
about the possibility of traffic congestion due to stacking:
i° Mr. Ted Lundin of Music Systems, Inc. stated he was working with the petitioner to
develop more effective order -taking communication systems and that some additional
equipment had beer, installed and was being used
PLANNING COMMISSIONMINUTES -15 September 12, 1979
Commissioner Threinen stated that nonetheless, stacking should be contained totally on
the site and not on the street. He stated that efforts to speed up the order line would
not solve the stacking problem since more customers Would be attracted: thus extendir.j the
line.
Commissioner Barron stated that action should be taken on the two issues before the
Commission.
MOTION by Commissionvir Bari -on, seconded by Commissioner Threinen to ap?rove the land-
scape plan revision. S-. ed upon the original plan received and approved August 21, 1,978
and upon the landscape architect's letter dated August 16, 1979; and that the site
performance bard be continued for 24 months,
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-,0 All in Favor
MOTION by Coinnission Barron, seconded by Commissioner Threinen to recommwid to the
City Council that a public hearing be scheduled at wh ch the owrn rship o' Judy's
Restaurant would be requested to show cause why the condit,,.<.--1 use permit for the
drive up window operation should not be revoked based upon the experienced traffic
stacking and congestion in the public street, the concern of the Planning Commission
being that per City ordinance and standards for a conditional use permit, traffic
tacking should be contained totally on the site and should not create traffic hazards
and problems on adjacent rights-of-way or neighboring properties,
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
Hater Chef Restaurant (8-830) Site Plan Amendment
MOTION by Commissionei Threinen, seconded by Commissioner Barron to remove the Happy
Chef consideration from the table,
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
Chairm,n Schneider recognized Mr. Baker who represented the petitioner and who requested
that the Happy Chef request for a direct access from Fernbrook Lane he deferred pending
the recommended bearing and disposition of the matter regarding traffic stacking from
the Judy's ,Restaurant site,
MOTION by Commissioner Barron, seconded by Commissioner Threinen to defer further
consideration of the request by Happy Chef Restaurant for a site plan amendment at
petiticner's request pending disposition of the Judy's Restaurant conditional use
permit reconsideration by the City Council.
MOTION CARRIED 7-0-0 All in Favor
Chairman Schneider noted that no one was present representing Minnesota Toro, staff
explained that the petiticner had been contacted and, informed that someone should be
present and that late that day someone from "»lnnesota Toro had called saying they
would not be able to attend the meeting.
40 MOTION by Commissioner Barron seconded by Commissioner Threinen to defer consideration
of the petici'on by Minnesota Toro (79047) until the next meeting,
Commissioner Aire and Chairman Schneider stated that the item had been fully considered
by the Commission earlier and that the new petition seemed to be exactly the Same
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES September 12, 1979
except for the detached t'. "l d i ng 7' the rear of the site
MOTION CARRIED 4-2--1 Chairman Schneider and
Commissioner Wire opposed
Commissioner Larson abstained
MOTION by Commissioner uasilii;,, seconded by Commissioner Wire to approve the minutes of
the August 22 1979 meeting as co•rected.
MOTION CARRIED 5-0-2 Commissioner `Chre nen and
Steigerwald abstained.
Ther -e being no Further ,business before the Commission, Chairman Schneider adjourned
the meeting at 11:30 P.M.