HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 11-08-1978PLANNING COW` SON
CITY OF PLYMOUi3
NOVEMBER 8, 1978
A special meeting of the; Plymouth Planning Commission was called to order byChairmanDavidDavenportat7:40 p.m. in the Council Chambers of the Public Works
Building, 14900 - 23rd Ave. No.
MEMBERS PRESENT; Commissioners Davenport, Schneider, Threinen, Vasiliou, Wire
and Barron (who arrived at 9:00)`
MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioner Erickson
STAFF PRE NT Blair Tremere and Mildred Jansen
A-819 Edward T. Johnston Final Plat Approval
Chairman Davenport asked if there were any questic of the Staff Report datedNovember6, 1978. There were none
MOTION by Commissioner Schneider, supported by Vasiliou, that the Planning Commission
make the following recommendation to the City Council
Approval of final plat of Evonnes Lakeview Addition consisting of 31 single-
family dwelling lots as proposed by Edward T. Johnston at the west .side of
Larch Lane at 48th Ave. No. subject to the following conditions:
1. Compliance with the City Engineer's memorandum for this subdivision,
2. Provision of a temporary cul--de-sac at the west end of 48th Ave. No.
3. Prohibition of all private driveway access to Larch Lane,
4. Street naming to be per the City Street Naming .System, i.e.,
48th Avec No;
5,. Park Dedication shall consist of .22 acres of trail corridor alongLarchLane, and cash fees -in -lieu in the amount of $8,404 (31 units X
275 less two units per acre X .22 acres -X $275 per unit).
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in Favor)
A-698 St. Paul Companies, Inc. Final Plat
Staff reviewed background per the November 5, 1978 staff report regarding the RPUD
and conditional use permit for "Drakeland" proposed by St. Paul Companies. Meadow
Corporation had earlier received final plat approval for the north portion of the
RPUD (Nathan Trails) consisting of single family homes. The present petition is for
3 outlots for the 45th Ave. No. right-of-way, the multiple dwelling part of theRPUD,,-and the commercial -industrial portion east of Nathan Lane._
Staff related concern that action on this proposal contain language in the form ,of
conditions which make specific reference to approved development and concept plans.
Rich Sather, representing petitioner, stated that the owner is trying to market the
property and wishes to divide it for assessment purposes,
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES November 8, 1978
The Commission stated concern that the debris on the property be removed, and the
owner maintain the land
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, supported by Commissioner Mire, that the Planning
Commission make the following_ recommendation to the City Council:
Approval of the proposed final: plat for "Drakelands" by St. Paul Companies subject
1. Appropriate documentation, approved by the City Attorney, shall be
filed with the final plat conveying the following: Outlots A and 8
are part of that approved development ;mown as RPUD 76-4/77-1"
subject to prelii°;nary plat and development plan dated February 8, 1978
as referenced in City Council Resolution 78-153; and Outlot is subject -
to the provisions of City Ordinance No. 77-5 referring to general plan
dated February 22, 1977 and to the preliminary plat dated February 22,,
1977 and to the preliminary plat dated February 22, 1977,
2. Determination of Park Dedication and/or fees -in -lieu of Park Dedica-
tion Shall be determined according to Council policy in force at
the time of actual development.
3.4 All development within Outlot 6 shall be subject to specific site
plan approvals, applicable ordinance provisions, and development
density shall not, in any case, exceed 240 units, with at beast
71 units affordable to families of low - moderate income units.
Approval of the February 8 1975 development plan does not constitute
site plan approval for the multiple dwellings on Outlot B.
4, Compliance with applicable provisions of the City Engineer's
memorandum,
5. Prior to filing, all trash, debris, and dead trees shall be removed
from the property as verified by the City Inspection Department_.
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in Favor)
A-855 Apollo Piping Compal Site Plan Approval &
Conditional Use Permit
Staff introduced the item and reviewed staff report dated November 6, 1978, including
delineation of parking areas, location of hydrants, outside storage, and landscaping.
The Commission discussed transition between residential and commercial by ample
screening, berms, trees; parking provisions; setbacks; and sign location.
In reply, to Chairman Davenport's inquiry of recommendation for cast -in-place concrete
curbing, Staff stated such curbing as recommended by City Engineer enhances site
maintenance and contains and directs drainage.
Chairman Davenport recognized Mr. Michael Amnon of Apollo Piping who concurred with
the recommended improvements.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -3- November 8, 1978
MOTION by Commissioner Schneider, supported by Threinen, that the Planning Commission
make the following recommendation to the City 'Council:
Approval of the site plan and conditional use permit request by Apollo Piping,
for property east of Ranchview Lane, south of 28th Avenue No.,subject to the
i following conditions;
1. Compliance with the provisions of the City Engineer's memorandum
for this project.
2. Payment of park dedication fees-ir;--lieu in the amount of $4,607
5.42 acres x $850 per acre)
3 No building permitsshall be issued until written confirmation is
received frac .the City Attorney that the property has been created
through approve=; and filed division.
4 Appropriat3 adjustments will be made with respect to the front
parking area to assure proper stall and isle width without encroach-
ment into the minimum required front yard.
5. The parking spaces within the fence area in the southwest corner of
the site shall be delin€ited through the use of cast -in --place curbing,
6. Tr.y proposed screen fence along the west side of the maneuvering
area shall be 7' in heigot and shall be of a vertical -board -design,
with 6" X 6" supports spaced 8' apart, Said fence shall be maintained
by the owner;
7. Location and number of fire hydrants shall be per recommendation of
the fi r3 chief.
8 The height of the materials permitted for outside storage shall not
exceed the height of the approved fencing and screening; and the
outside storage area shall be paved,
9. Landscape plan shall be enhanced by increasing the height of spruce
trees west of the fence to 6' instead of 4 and there shall be
2 additional spruce trees south of the drive,, and 4 additional spruce
trees north of the drive.
10. Variance for the sign location shall be allowed 'to permit a 25' setback,
MOTION CARRIED (5-0.0) (All in Favor)
A-151 Honeywell, Incorporated Site Plan Approval
The Secretary introduced the item and reviewed the November 7, 1978 staff report
regarding the proposed approximate 70,000 sq. ft. four-story office/research center
addition to the existing 28,000 sq ft, facility on the. 25 -acre site.
The Secretary cited the Engineer's memorandum and concerns relative to the need for
public improvements in this area. He stated the land locked parcel was currently
servicedby a private road which connected to the Highway 55 service road and by
a private water line connecting to the City main to the north. He stated these
were permitted when the site was rezoned and developed approximately 11 years ago
in anticipation_ of future development of this area. He indicated within the past
year two site plans and a prelixi.,aty plat had been approved for the area to the
0
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -4- November 8, 1978
east, but because the petitioner had yet to resolve street utility and other con-
siderations no development had occurred'.
Chairman Davenport recognized Mr. Rick Dykman the architect, Mr. Arne Stolberg the
contractor, and Mr. Bob Cavins the property manager who represented the petitioner.
Mr. Dykman discussed the proposed site plan stating that the design was intended to
assure the development was compatible with the existing natural features and that a
minimum of new plantings was needed. Commissioner Threinen suggested that the
islands within the large parking lot be planted with trees.
Discussion ensued regarding the parking provision and the Secretary stated that
the proposed plan meets the ordinance minimuifl requirements; he noted earlier concerns
by the Commission and Council as to the adequacy of the ordinance standards for
office -type uses and suggested that the site was large enough to allow for expanded
parking if it were deemed necessary.
Mr. Cavins discussed the nature of the use stating that current off-site rented
office space would be consolidated into the rew building, and he explained the type
of research involving solid state electronics.
Commissioners Schneider and Threinen stated concern about the existing outside storage
to the west of the existing building, which involves hydrogen gas stored on a truck
bed as wel'i as liquid nitrogen and oxygen storage. It was notel the area to the west
is guided LA1 and currently zoned R -O indicating future residential develcpment.
Commissioner Schneider stated concern with the need to protect these future home
sites through screening and buffering.
Chairman [davenport inquired as to future expansion plans, and Mr. Stolberg stated
that the petitioner had studied the site in terms of total saturation and then more
specifically in terms of actual current need. He stated it was difficult to specify
the nature of future expansion at this time and that the petitioner was hesitant to
indicate specific buildings and facilities since no commitment could be made. Chair-
man Davenport responded that the Planning Commission should review a master plan for
the area which would be concept only but would provide guidance when future expansion
occurred.
Ms. Georgina Friedman, IOIOB Ives Lane, stated concern with the capacity of existing
private access road to support the traffic as well as emergency vehicle access.
Discussion continued. regarding the need for utilities and public road access into
the site, including future development of County Road 15 to the south. Mr. Cavias
stated the petitioner desired to proceed with the new addition as soon as possible
and was aware of the need to work out the engineering and related details for public
utilities and access into the area.
Further discussion ensued about the need f;)r more detail;:d landscape plans, espec-
ially with respect to the area west of the present buid;ng and the area around and
within the proposed Larch parking lot.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -5 November 8, 1978
MOTION by Commissioner Vasi'liou, seconded by Commissioner Threinen, to make the
following recommendation to the City Council regarding the request by Honeywell
incorporated;
Approval of site and building plans for an approximate 70,000 sq. ft.
four-story office/research center addition at 1.2001 State highway 55
subject to the following conditions:
1. Compliance with the City Engineer's memorandum as to street,
utility, and drainage requirements for this site.
2. Appropriate arrangements, as approved by the City Council, shall
be made as to the installation of required improvements prior to
issuance of building permits.
3. Payment of park dedication fees-in-Qieu in the amount of $21,250
X25 acres X $850)
4. Jutside trash disposal is prohibited.
5. Parking are driving areas shall be bounded by cast -in-place
concrete curbing as approved by the City Engineer.
6. Parking spaces along the drive west of the main parking lot
shall be revised to be in accordance with ordinance standards.
7. location of fire hydrants and design of firelanes s;nall be in
accordance with plans approved by the Fire Chief and Planning
Depa, tment,to include effective firelane access around the north
side of Che existing buil°ng.
8.. A detailed landscape plan; shall be submitted for approval,
including plantings and trees in the parking lot islands; and
screening of the outside storage area west of the existing
building and the new building to include a three foot high berm
with a substantial amount of coniferous trees,
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, supported by Commissioner Eyhneider, to amend
the motion add ng a ninth condition:: A master concept plan indicating possible
ultimate development of the site and addressing possible alternate accesses: in
conjunction with the Cit; Thoroughfare Guide Plan shall be submitted to the
Commission for review and comment.
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-1) Commissioner Vasiliou Opposed
MOTION by Commissioner Wire,supported by Commissioner Schneider, to amend the main
motion by adding a tenth condition: The outside storage west of the existing
building shall be screened with substantial landscaping and berming from the resi-
denFial land to the west including the relocation of mobile storage units to reduce
the ,~,Aal impact and setback deficiencies.
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in Favor)
Chairman Davenport called for a vote on the main motion, twice amended,
MOTION CARRIED (All in favor)
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -6- November 8, 1978
A-862 Robert E, Cope Consolidation and
Division of Unplatted Land
Staff introduced this item and reviewed staff report dated November 6, 1978. Staff
explained the, new lot width was 1001, 101 less than the ordinance minimum.
There wa,. discussion among the Commissioners of ordinance provisions for variances.
Mr. Kenneth Larson, owner of a portion of the property, discussed lot sizes, yard`
setbacks, present rriveway location, and future house expansion possibilities. He
also inquired about park dedication fees.
Coni, rissi,iner Barron arrive at 9:30
MOTION by Comrxissioner Vasiliou, supported by Commissioner Threinen, that the
Planning Commission make the following recommendation to the. City Council:
Approval of the division/consolidation, requested by Mr. Robert Cope, for
property in the 2100 Block of Oakview Lane, including a 10' width variance
for the new lot based upon a finding of compliance with Section 10.`01 of
the Subdivision Ordinance, subject to the following:
1. Compliance with the Engineer's memorandum for this division.
2. Payment of park dedication fees -in -lieu in the amount of $275.
S 3. Dedication of additional right-of-way across all properties
involved to result in a 30' overall easement for roadway purposes.
4. No building permits issued until filing of the division is con-
firmed by the City Attorney.
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-1) Commissioner Barron. Abstained
Chairman Davenport called for a 10 -minute recess at 9:40 p.m.
A-784 Parklands Development Company Final Plat Approval1
Chairman Davenport askedif there were any questions of the November F 1978 staff
report; there were none,
MOTION by Commiissioner Threinen, supported by Commissioner Barron, that the PlanningCommissionmakethefollowingrecommendationtotheCityCouncil;
Approval of the final plat for Deerwood Meadows Plat 2 as proposed by
Parklands Development Company consisting of 55 single family dwellinglotsand3outlotssubjecttothefollowingconditions;
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES _7- November 8, 1978
I. Provision ofstorm water drainage easements over Schmidt Lake
to elevation 925 as approved by the City Engineer.
2. Dedication to the City of Outlots A, B and C for trail purposes
following completion of trail -improvements per City specifi-
cations for collector trails, and payment of .Park .Dedication
fees -in -lieu of $14,011 (55 lots: X $275 per lot less 1.85 acre
trail dedication X 2.19 units per acre X $275).
3. Compliance with the Ci
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES November 8, 1978
Indicated, grading could be accomplished along the east side of the single family
residences in such a manner to provide a, permanent berming or topography which could
is be enhanced by the individual property owners,
Chairmn Davenport noted that while the Public Hearing had been closed, at the previous
meeting, an Attorney, Mr. Morofsky representing Mr, Leverenz who owns property west
of the proposed entrance at County Road 9, had submitted a letter requesting an oppor-
tunity to review any revisions to the planincluding buffering and landscaping.
Chairman Davenport directed that the letter be made part of the file, Chairman
Davenport also recognized Mrs, Maus, neighboring property owner, who commented that
snowmobiles already traverse the site and manager to cross County Road 9. She spoke
specifically to a question from the Commission as to a proper design for a road
crossing at County Road 9, if the trail were located along the freeway right of-way,
Chairman Davenport inquired as to Phasing and Mi,, Nalson responded stating that
phasing would be dictated by the market, He said the expectation was that by the
summer of 1979 approximately 40 residential lots at the south end of the development
could be developed. Chairman Davenport stated the Commission's concern with assur-
ing that future residential property owners were aware of the, total PUD concept.,
Commissioner Schneider not -ed that the petitioner sought several variances regarding,
yard setbacks of the single-family homes, and he stated that he could not find sound
justification for the requested variances. Mr, Hagen responded that the lots were
narrower, and Mr. Nelson cited other planned unit developments that have lesser
setback. He also stated that perhaps through tine use of covenants approved setbacks
could be assured; and he specifically responded to Commission concerns regarding
possible overhang dimensions and chimneys in the side yards.
The Secretary stated that one intent of a planned unit development isto allow for
flexibility in design and layout, provided there is a net result of substantial
open space serving the development, He stated that should be the standard, used in
determining what yard setbacks should be if they varied from ordinance minimums,
The Secretary stated that it was important from Staff perspective to make sure the
setbacks were specified in the approval and that the ordinance required the final
plan to indicate typical yard setbacks for all structures,
Commissioner Schneider stated be was bothered by a broad across-the-board variance
for the entire development without specific knowledge of problems which would justify
a variance. In further discussion with Mr. Nelson, it was suggested that final
platting of those lots where problems occurred could be shown, Chairman Davenport
and Commissioner Schneider acknowledged that the guiding of this area was a higher
density (LA3) and that there was thus implied a closer relationship of dwelling
building; however it was important that tKe proposed setbacks be established at
this time.
The Secretary noted that the rezoning of this property to MPUD involved not only
R -O which covered the bulk, of the property, but also that pa -rt at the northwest
portion of the project which is zoned R -1A.
Further discussion ensued regarding the elimination of the proposed Outlot B east
of the Oaknel Addition, and the incorporation of the Oaknel Addition Outlot I
into this plat.
Mal
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES November 8, 197
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, seconded by Commissioner Vasiliou that the
Planning Commission n,,ke the following recommendation to the City Council;
Approval of the proposal by Criterion Homes, Inc. for preliminary plat/plan
and rezoning for MPUD 78-1 at the southeast quadrant of County Road 9 and
Pernbrook Lane subject to the following conditions;
1. The trail corridor from the south bounaary (approximately
36th Ave. No.) north to the north proprty line of Lot 1, Block 3
be eliminated, with this land to be incorporated into adjacent
properties for landscaping purposes as buffering between the
residential and commercial development.
2. Dedicated trail corridors to be designated as indicated on the
corridor use plan adopted November, 1976, with the cross community
trail (multiple use) to be along 1-494 adjacent and within the
powerline easement; and the local trail to be dedicated along
Fernbrook Late shall be improved with sidewalk per City specification.
3. A trail strip as indicated on the graphic dated September 19, 1978
between 39th Ave. No. and 40th Ave. No. east of Lot 12, Block l and
along the west side of Block 8 shall be dedicated for local trail
use.
4. The front yard setback of typical residential lots shall be 35'
with a minimum 6' side yard setbacks and all Cather yard setbacks
shall be as shown per graphic sheet #1 dated 11/8/78. Specific
typical yard setbacks shall be shown on plan at time of final
platting.
5. Compliance with the City Engineer's memorandum for this project.
6.. Payment of Park Dedication fees-in-lieu of dedication shall',Je
made according to adopted City Council policy at time of dev:alopment..
7. Appropriate easements for right-of-way and drainage purposes Lball
be made as approved by the City Engineer.
8. The area on the west side of Block 8 north of 40th Ave, No. and
on the west and south side of the proposed Annapolis Lane right-of-way
south of County Road 9 shall be landscaped per graphics dated
September 19, 1978; the area along the 'west of Block 8 Between
40th Ave. No. and Annapolis Lane may be dedicated to the City as
extension of the trail following completion of the improvement.
9. Access to the commercial sitesadjacent to County Road 9 shall be
solely from Annapolis Lane,
WITION by Chairman Davenport, seconded by Commissioner Barron, to amend the main
motion by adding a tenth condition.A concept graphic reflecting the final approval
shall be attached to all purchase agreements for properties within the MPUD; and
all covenants and filings per Section 9 of the Zoning Ordinance shall be subject to
approval by the City Attorney.
MOTION CARRIED (6-0-0) (All in Favor)
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES _10- November 8, 1978
MOTION by Commissioner Schneider, seconded by Commissioner Vasiliou, to amend the
main motion by adding the llth condition: The landscaping treatment north of
40th Ave. flo. to Annapolis lane shall include double the amount of spruce trees
which shall be 81 in height,
MOTION CARRIED (6-0-0) (All in Favor)
Chairman davenport calledfor a vote on the main t-, `ion, twice amended'.
MOTION CARRIED (6-0--0 (All in Favor)
A-340 Lake Street Industries Incorporated Site Plan Approval
The item was introduced by the Secretary who reviewed the November 6, 1978 staff
report regarding the proposed 9,744 sq. ft. addition to the existing building at
the northeast corner of Xenium Lane and Industrial Park Boulevard. The Secretary
stated that inside loading docks on the south end of the building which had been
approved were now located outside and the large trucks presented an obstruction
at the curb cut and the driving lane on the south side of the building.. He also
indicated by pictures outside storage and automobile parking areas not authorized
for parking. Staff also indicated a concern that with the new addition, additional
parking spaces were required and that an original variance for 37 spaces no longer
applied since that variance had been based on future parking capabilities of -the
land to be occupied by the addition.
Staff explained that the petitioner had submitted' two of the plans for the pro-
posed addition and site improvements, with "Plan B" representing a proof of parking
or ultimate site arrangement at full development.
Chairman Davenport recognized Mr.Gerry Wellik, owner, and Mr. Bob Orth, contractor.
Mr. Wellik stated a preference for a development combining features of both Plan A
and Plan B, using the zero lot line parking on the north side shown on Plan B
but with the narrow driving lane and parallel parking in front of the building as
shown on Plan A. He stated that his parking needs at this time did not require
the full'complement of ordinance required parking, but he realized that should the
parking demands so require he was prepared to expand the: front area for additional
spaces as shown on Plan B.
Extensive discussion ensued and the Secretary noted the variance inherent in the
petitioner's proposal: the one-way width of the driving lane in front of the
building combined with two-way parking and parallel parking; rear yard setbacks
at the north and south ends; and lack of 10' setback from building to parking
spaces on the north and south ends.
The secretary stated that reducing the front ,yard setback to the ordinance mitimum
of 25' would allow for more and better designed parking stalls. Commissioner
Threinen stated that aesthetically that situation was not desirable unless absol-
utely necessary.
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES _11'- November 8, 1978
The Secretary also stated that, /'lith respect to the proposed zero lot line on the
north side, the ordinance requirad a written agreement between the petitioner and
a neighboring property owner. Mr. Wellik responded that while the neighboring
property to the north was vacant, he had been in contact with the owner who had no
objection to t"e propo,,al. Secretary noted that such an agreement would result in
a zero lot line for perking and driving by that property when it develops.
Chairman Davenport stated the concern with the outside storage and trash as exhibited
In the pictures, and Mr.Wellik responded that the matter was a management problem
and could be resolved immediately.
MOTION by Commissioner Threinen, supported by Commissioner Schneider, that the
Plannirg Commission :rake the following recommendation to the City Council:
Approval of the site a0 building plans as requested by Lake Street
Industries for 9,744 sq. ft. addition on the site at the northeast corner
of Xenium Lane and Industrial Park Boulevard subject to the following
conditions:
Compliance with the provisions of the City Engineer's memorandum
for this development including correction Gf the driveway
obstruction caused by vehicle loading and unloading at the south
end of the building, consistent with ordinance standards.
2. Payment of park dedication fees -in -lieu in the amount of $2,482.00
2.928 acres X $850).
3. Submission of appropriate documentation regarding the common
parking and driving with the eventual industrial development to
the north, as the basis for zero lot line parking along the north
boundary.
4. Approval is based on Plan B with the exception of parking in the
front area, which should be indicated as on Plan A in order to
preserve the landscaping until such time that actual parking needs
require installation of stalls in the front.
S.. Variances included in the approval include the east rear yard
building setback as an extension of the existing building; the
parking setback at the northeast corner in recognition of the
adjacent railroad right-of-way; parking setback at the southeast
corner in recognition of the railroad right-of-way and in recog-
nition
ecog-
n tion of the need to allow for free traffic flow through this
area; and the parking and driving setback from building on the
north and south ends in recognition of the effort to preserve the
front landscaping area.
MOTION by Commissioner
main motion by adding
added to the area west
shall be added to the
MOTION CARRIED
Schneider, supported by Commissioner Vasiliou, to amend the
a sixth condition: six 6' high evergreen trees shall be
of the southeast entrance; and four 6' evergreen trees
area east of the southeast entrance.
6-0-0) All in Favor)
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -l2 November 8, 1978
MOTION by Chairman Davenport, supported by Commissioner Barron, to amend the main
motion by adding a seventh condition; There shall be no outside storage of
production materials or trash, and an eighth condition: There shall be no vehicle
parking :on unpaved areas of the site or on non -designated parking or loading zones.
MOTION CARRIED (6-0-0) (All in Favor)
Chairman Davenport called for a vote on the main motion, twice amended,
MOTION CARRIED (6-0-0) (All in Favor)
A-614 Wallace Cates (Plymouth Liquors) Site Plan Amendment
Staff explained that construction is nearing completion on the retail store at
Hwy. 55 and South Shore Drive, and the owner has requested certain amendments,
some of which have been undertaken, to the plans approved under Council Res, 77--624.
Staff presented revised plans which indicated a different facade using rustic
timbers as well as covered walkway on the south and east sides. All but one of the
windows per the approved plan have been blocked out except for those next to the
entrance, with the intent of installing casements with glass fronts to contain
display and advertising messages.
The Secretary explained that the ordinance permits either a freestanding sign or
wall signage, but not both; and the proposed casements on the south wall are inter-
preted as wall signage, The Secretary stated that a freestanding sign was origi-
nally approved and that wall signage was specifically deleted from the plan.
Chairman Davenport recognized Mr, Wallace Cates who said the windows were blocked
up because of the high security cost and the need for the advertising display area
on the building. He noted the window by the entrance had been retained, and a
window on the east side around the corner from the entrance had been added.
The petitioner also proposed revision to the approved landscape plan: smaller
diameter trees, additional trees, and the use of rock and boulders instead of
shrubs He also stated that the approving resolution granted a setback for the
pylon sign of 20`, but it had been determined this would locate the sign in the
parking lot area. He requested that a new setback be established of approximately12` which would place the sign in the landscape area.
The Secretary explained that approval of the requested signage would constitute
a variance allowing two signs, and that based upon the area of the wall signage
proposed there would be a variance as to area.
Extensive discussion ensued as to the types, location and number of signs permitted
as well as the setback of the freestanding sign. The petitioner stated that the
west end former window area could be completely bricked in compatible with the
exterior of the building and thus the remaining four former window panels would
be within the ordinance area requirements for wall signage.
Discussion also ensued regarding the visual impact of display and advertising
messages within the proposed casements as compared to displays and paper signs
posted on the inside of display windows such as in grocery stores and the petitioner's
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES _15 November 5, 1978
existing stare,
Several Commissioners suggested that the panels proposed by the petitioner were
not clearly within the intent of the sign ordinance prov;sions for wall signs
attarhO to and projecting from the exterior wall. Concern was stated as to the
ty1s;Nf, signage within the casements,and at the suggestions of several Commissioners
tine petitioner agreed that two of the panels could contain long-term display
messagLs whereas the other two panels could be used for short-term advertising
messages, petitioner also agreed that no signs or displays would be posted in the
two windows at the east end near the entrance, thereby reducing the visual impact.
The Secretary stated concerns as to enforceability of the provisions and commented
that th1fthe variance were to be granted to permit wall signage, the distinction
between short-term and long-term messages was a moot point. The Secretary also
stated concern that attachment of signs in the inside of display windows was also
difficult to enforce and questioned, the legality of restricting any display or
message inside the store which happened to be visible through the windows. He noted
earlier unfruitful attempts by other communities to regulate displays and signs
inside display windows .of retail stores, explaining that sign ordinances are
designed to govern sign structures on the exterior of buildings and within the
surrounding yards.
MOTION by Commissioner Schneider, supported byCommissioner Wire, to approve the
plans dated November 1978 submitted by Wallace Cates for amendment to the plans
approved under Res.. 77-624 for the retail liquor store and Hwy. 55 and South Shore
Drive, including a variance to allow both a freestanding business sign and wall
signage subject to the following conditions;
1. The panel at the west end of the south side shall be completely filled
in with materials compatible with the building exterior,
2. Two of the fo;ir remaining former window panels shall be for long-=term
display messages and two may be used for short-term advertising messages,
3. The window panel at the east end of the south side next to the entrance,
and the window panel on the east side ,around the corner from the entrance
shall contain no displays for signs,
MOTION CARRIED (4.-0-2) Commissioners Vasliou and Barron
stated they were opposed on the
basis that the conditions appeared:
to be unenforceable with respect
to the type of signage permitted
within the panels, and the restriction
of signage within the windows,
MOTION by Commissioner Schneider, seconded by Commissioner Wireito recommend amend-
ment to Condition It of Council Res, 77-624 so to allow for the described wall
signage and to allow for a setback of the pylon sign of approximately 12" so that
it can be located within the landscape area.
MOTION CARRIED (6--0-0) (All in Favor)
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES -14- November 8, 1978
MOTION by Commissioner Barron, seconded by Commissioner Wire, to approve the
proposed landscape amendments per the letter dated November 8, 1978 and plans
dated November 1978.
MOTION CARRIED (6-0-0) (All in Favor)
Chairman Davenport adjourned the meeting at 12;45 a,m,
APPROVED BY PLANNING COMMJf SION
David J. Davenport, Chairman
Plymouth Planning Commission
Blair Tremere, Secretary