HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 09-07-1977PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY OF PLYMOUTH, MINNESOTA
September 7, 1977
A regular meeting of the Plymouth Planning Commission was called to order by Chairman
Davenport at 7:30 p.m.. in the Council Chambers of the Public Works Building, 14900-
23rd Avenue North,
MEM3ERS PRESENT: Chairman Davenport, Commissioners Hoyt, Schneider, Stewart and
Threinen
MFMBERS ABSENT: Commissioner Erickson
1`AFF PRESENT: Charles Di l l erud and Kate Marx
A-648 Creekwood H711s A-648 Preliminary Plat, Preliminary
Plan and Conditional Use
Permit for Amended RPUD
Concept Pian 77-1
Staff presented petitioner's request for an amended RPUD Concept Plan -Conditional
Use Permit, Preliminary Plat and Preliminary Plan for "Creekwood Hills", a plat
proposed for residential development of 125 single family dwelling units located at
the southwest corner of Larch Lane and the Soo line Tracks. Staff proposed a recom-
mendation for approval subject to the conditions as listed in the Staff report of
September 1, 1977,
Commissioner Schneider questioned the depth of the lots abutting the railroad tracks..
Petitioner's engineer, Fran Hagen, statedthat. the depth of those lots ranged from 180-
200 ft.
Commissioner Threinen questioned the eventual disposition of Pineview Lane.. Staff
indicated that petitioner had stated willingness to deal with the property owners to
the east to in some manner obtain right-of-way or.negotiate an easement for the roadway.
Commissioner Threinen asked petitioner what the timing of the project was, John R.
Nelson, Criterion Homes, stated that they would like to be in the :ground by 'S'pringg
F 1978. As to price range of homes, Mr. Nelson stated the range would be it1 the lower
50,000 bracket.
There was na one present in the audience to offer questions or com«ents,
Chairman Davenport closed the 'public hearing at 8.10 p.m,
MOTION eras made by Commissioner Stewart supported by Commissioner Hoyt that the Planning'
Commission take action on this item at this meeting,_
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favors MOTION CARRIED
PLANNING COMM.,TSSf6 MEETING .MINUTES -2- September 7, 1977
A-759 Kingswood Farm A-759 RPUD Concept Plan 77-3
Staff presented petitioner"s request for Concept Flan approval of RPUD 77-5,
Kingswood Farm", a development proposed for 112 residential single family dwellings
orb a "zero lot l inp1' concept to be located south of the Luce Lire Trail and west of
Cleason Lake. A m corvnendation for approval was proposed by Staff subject to the
conditions as listed in the Staff report of September 1, 1977.
Corrmis,sior r Schneider asked what the approximate. distance was between the property
line to the south and the southerly most units. Petitioner responded that it was
intended to be approximately 50 ft.
Chairman Davenport asked what the approximate distance was between the propfirty line
to the est and: th,1 adjoining residential properties on Harmony Circle to the nearest
proposed units. It was determined to be approximately 150 ft. between tiae.e two points.
Dick Knutson, petitioner's engineer, and. Jack Braun, a soils testing engineering
specialist, explainedthe soils situat,onon 't-Fe—property proposed for development.
Because of the plasticity of the soils in certain areas of the parcel, and the problems
with trying to build on such soils, the petitioner was proposing deuelopxent as a
Residential Planned Unit Development. Extensive ground preparation and soils replace-
ment would be necessary even to build the homes as proposed for the project.
Commissioner Threinen asked i -f these soils would, even though they may be correctable
for home construction, be problematic for utility installatior and street construction:.:
Mr. Fraun stated that similar corrections could and would be mace for the utility
installation and street co, :traction as proposed for the homes of the project. The
point at which the "bad" soils terminated and "good" soils began shad been determined
already by petitioner and replace=ment of these soils would be accomplished as necessary
for the construction def the project.
Commissioner lhreinen asked if there would be ample over -flow parMng available around
the homes and, within t? e project itself, Mr. Knutson explained liow petitioner had planned
to deal with the parking for the project.
Commissioner Thxeinen also asked petitioner about any plans for amenities for the
project at this time. Petitioner responded that no improvements were planned to the
lake shore or the lake itself. ;It was proposed' to remain in Its natural state. A
tennis ctlurt and pool were ;ilso planned as amenities for the project at this time in
addition to the ripen space; surrounding the buildings.
The !+ommission asked petitioner if it would be possible to have an idea of the visual
impact of the proposed unit at the: time of preliminary plat review. Petitioner responded
that he would be prepared to do so at that time.
Chairman Davenport opened the public informational meeting to questions, and comments
from irvztmbers of the audience
Dick Harmon, 641 Rosswood Lane, questioned whether private streets were common practice
within such developments. Staff responded that this was becoming more common.
DaleWeeks, 654 Harmony Circle,, asked what c=urrently existed in the metropolitan
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES -3- Septc-mber 7, 1977
area as a comparison of the type of units petitioner was proposing. Petitioner
responded that the current Cimarron Ponds project located in Plymouth to the north
and east of the present pnposal had some similar to those being proposed. However,
the Cimarron Ponds project was composed of attached patio homes --this project proposed
single family detached dwellings, and the most expensive unit existing in the Cimarron
Ponds project was in the price: range of $60,000 --that would .be the price of the least
expensive unit in the Kingswood Farm project with the range expanding to a maximum of
l Q0, 000
Chairman Davenport closed the public informational meeting at 8:50 p,m,
MOTION was made by Commissioner Schneider supported by Commissioner Stewart that the
Planning Commission act on this item at this meeting.
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
A-648 Creekwood Hills A-648 Preliminary Plat, Preliminary
Plan and Amended RPUD Concept
Plan Conditional Use Permit
for RPUD 77-1
MOTION was made. by Commissioner Thren:en'supported by Commissioner Stewart that the
Planning Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council;
That the request of Criterion Homes for amended Concept Plan, Preliminary Plan,
Preliminary Plat,anl Conditional Use Permit approvals for RPUD 77-1, "Creekwood
Hills", a residential development proposed for 125 single family detached dw,_: lings
located at the southwest corner of Larch Lane and the Soo Line Railroad Track -q
per plane dated Auoust 19, 1977, be approved subject to the following conditions;
1. Redesign to increase the size of Lots 1-5 Block 1S and Lot ],:Block 2S
to 15,500 sq, ft: to provide on-site transition of non -conventional lot
sizes.
2. Final plat submissions shall provide for the entire right;-of viay for
Pineview Lane eit'-r by platting or easement,
3. Complian:e with to provisions of the City Engineer's memorandum regarding
this project lith Item #4 to include full right-cf-way for Pineview Lane
4. Nw private drive access to 49th Avenue North, Pineview Lane ar Larch Lane
except for Lots 26-31, Block 3,
5. Public Open Space requirements shall be satisfied by trail easement dedication
along: Larch Lane (34;F)0 sq., ft.) and payment of fees -yin -lieu for the
4.91 acre deficie-icy,
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favors MOTION CARRIED
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES M4- September 7, 1977
T:759 KinNoad Farm A-7597RPUO 77-3 Concept Plan
MOTION. was made by Commissioner Threinen supported by Commissioner Stewart that the
Planning Connission make the following recommendatio to the City Council.
That the request of Centurion Company for RPUD 77-3 Concept Plan approval
of the "Kingswood farm" a proposed residential development consisting of
112 single family detached dwelling units to be located south of the Luce Line
Trail and west of Gleason Lake, be approved subject to the following conditions:
1. Initiation of Environmental Assessment Wrrksheet procedures concurrent with
Preliminary Plat submission.
2. Approval by t:^e Minnehaha Creek Watershed District.
3, The City Engineer carefully review ,he proposed street construction and soil
corrections noted by petitioner to insure that this will indeed sustain
traffic in a reasonable fashion
Chairman Davenport stated that it would be incumbent upon the developers to provide
adequate parking within the project and asked that some representation of the parking
be delineated for the preliminary plat/preliminary plan review of the project,
MOTION TO AMEND was made by Commissioner Schneider supported by Commissioner Threinen
that the following condition be added: "Setbacks of the units from the south and west
property lines shall be a minimum of 50 ft."
MOTION TO AMEND CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favor)MOTION TO AMEND CARRIED
The Commis ion then voted on the main motion as amended.
MOTION CARRIIED (5-0-0) (All in favor) MOTION CAkRIED
Prior to discussion of the following item, Commissioner Threinen made the following
statement for the record:
Upon reception of the agenda last week, I commenced the usual research on this item
and had some informational, though somewhat emotional, conversations with both advocates
and adversariesofthis proposal. In the process, it became apparent that the
future of this project could have direct affects upon Armstrong Senior High School
where I am a faculty member. Further, it would seem that my position on this subject
was at times misconstrued to be an official position of the staff of Armstrong High
School or even of Independent School District #281. I am a spokesman foo neither; I
will not risk having the credibility of this Commission diminished by my participation
in the discussion of this agenda item. I respectfully request to be excused from
consideration of this subject at this time. Thank you."
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES - - September 7, 1977
for Boys A-_7,60' Conditional Use PermitAH -M Jonathan Home
Staff presentedpetitioner's request for the -location of a group home for boys within
the City proposed to be located at 10815 -36th Avenue North. It was pointed out by
Staff that, two technical questions would need to be answered by the Commission; 1)
since the 1968 Zoning Ordinance, by which the City is currently operati,ig, does not
specifically address "group homes" does the operation of a group home tit under the
section of the ordinance speaking to institutions and their acceptability within
residential districts, and, 2) if this is considered to be an institution, does this
location lend itself to such a use. Staff stated that the site's proximity is a
thoroughfare, schools and the amount of hand being proposed for the use may lead to a
positive finding for this second question. The primary task of the Commission. however,.
would be to snake a recommendation to the. Council as to the acceptability of the use as
an institution under provisions of the current zoning ordinance,
Joseph Jullie, director of the program, presented to the Commission facts about the
home proposed to be built. It wes yandicated by him that the home would be a "rambler"
style sufficient to house 13 people, including a married couple acting, as "house parents"
for the program. There would be a total of 5,,000 sq,, ft. of living space both upstairs
and downstairs within the hortre
Commissioner Schneider asked petitioners ,thy they were moving from their current loca-
tion in the south Minneapolis area,. Petitioners indicated that they were unable to
hold; on to the residence they were now using, it is owned by a church which is anxious
to sell the entire property, which is more than the Jonathan 'Home could afford, even
with donations.
Commissioner 5te,,art asked questions dealing with the current status of the home
financially and how it would be, possible to make the move they were proposing. Mr,.
Oullie explained the home operated as an independent non-profit organization, dealing
in contractual situations with Hennepin County for nearly every portion of the program
they operated at the home.. Other financing was received from the federal government
and, finally, donations from private citizens allowed the home to operate other programs
for the boys not available from the other two sources. As to the proposed home, LP
Associates is intending to donate the building to donate the land with a diminishing
trust fund to be set up for a period of 30 years. after which time the home would own
the building and land. It must be handled in this manner in that the County does
not allow the Home to pay interest on loans which would be the case with any type of
mortgage.. At no time in the past nor at any time in the future is any expansion of
the program planned or anticipated. In order to do so, the Department of Public
Welfare and the County would have to be notified and the home would no longer exist
in its present status. They presently exist under a very specifically defined set of
rules and regulations imposed by the department of Public Welfare and the County,.
Commissioner Stewart asked how the home received their clients, Mr Jullie responded
that the majority were referred by Hennepin County, but that some were referred by
Lutheran Social Services. Comnissi.ner Stewart asked how many come through the court
services, Roger Loftus, a counselor fi, tiik program, stated that this was a difficult
question to answer. He indicated that 1:ire home would, undr no circumstances, take any-
onw with a background of violence or prcp_rty damage, chemical dependency or mental
retardation, The program they have est«blished is not suited for these types of
individuals Most of the clients ak., truancy problems for one reason or another. f
PLANNINQ °COMMISSION MEET%NC MINUTES &w September 7j 1977
Mr. Loftus made two additional ° comments, 1) the rolationship they have with the
neighborhood where they are presently located is not a fluke they have tried and
feelthey have succeeded in establishing a rapport with the neighbors and in being`
good citizens,.". They are fully aware of the tennuous status of a conditional use
permit; 2) Jonathan is considered the last step taken by the boys before they are
ready to step back into their community/family life. The children have already{
gone through any therapy or other counseling considered necessary before entering
Jonathan and are prepared to enter the community upon leaving Jonathan, In this
way, it is not representative of all group homes.
Commissioner Stewart asked what the total capacity of the home would be Petitioner
responded that the total number of boys would be averaged at 11. Only 10 would be
living on the, premises at any one time --the 11 average is for clients transferring, in
and out of the program during the year.. They are not licensed for any greater number.
The age range of the boys is 13-,18 years old.
Commissioner Stewart asked if tHra bays were of the type that would be a physical
problem in the schools. Mr. Loftus responded that this was not the type of boy they
could help. The boys generally have a learning disability problem and tend to be the
type of child who withdraws. The program is not for those who act out. As to the
time any one boy would spend in the program, Mr. Loftus responded that it varied
from between 6-9 months.
Commissioner Schneider asked if the boy:: had to want to be in the program, in order
to be accepted. Mr. Loftus responded that this was necessary --if the boy did not
want to be there, then Jonathan did: not want the boy,
Commissioner Stewart asked what would happen in a situation where it wi;s found that
the boy could not be helped or that he did not want to participate in the program.
Petitioner, responded that the boy is removed immediately from the program: They
do not have: the time or means to deal with such children.
Commissioner Schneider askedwhat assurances could be trade that the operation would
be asthey say it is ten years into the future. Petitioners stated that they could
offer only their, promises, their track record in the community and references as an
answer to the question. They felt these were all in good standing. Meanwhile, they
also had the State Department of Public Welfare and. the County to satisfy also, in
terms of their operation being a good one.
Commissioner Hoyt questioned whether they felt this home would put any demands oil
the school district.. Petitioner, responded that they felt it would educationally,
however, they also had or,, staff a tutor for children with severe learning disabilities
as well as social workers. The school would not be burdened in this way.
Commissioner Schneider questioned petitioners, as to why they had chosen Plymouth,
Petitioners .responded that aside from the fact that the land was being donated in
Plymouth, the County and their own studies. indicated that; as growth was taking place
in the northwestern suburbs, so was the need for this type of facility for children
of the northwestern suburbs. The children come from mostly middle and upper --middle
class in terms of family income:
Chairman Davenport opened the meeting to comments from the audience.
PLANNING COWISS10N`MiTET1N0 MINUTES _7- September 7, 1977
Pat KatZmarek, 3520 East Medicine Lake Boulevard, asked how much land was being usedfortiesite. Petitioners responded that 'there were 1.6 acres available at the site
they bad chosen, Site indicated that she and a neighbor had circulated a petition in
the neighborhood which would be, presented later and that it stated the objection.
of the neighbors to t.e proposed location of the group home. Of the 75 residents con-
tacted, 73 signed the petition.
In addition, Mrs. Katzmarek stated that she had personal reasons for objecting to
the proposed use: 1) she stated that she felt the area already had an overabundance
of institutions, i.e. Mission Farm, Pioneer House and all the school facilities in
the area, -therefore, another one was not needed; 2) this is a metropolitan -wide
venture to service the area with group homes of this nature and perhaps other areas of
the City and/or other cities should have the group home proposed located in their
neighborhood. She stated that she felt her neighborhood had made enough cc.ami'tment
to, this type of'situat;on with the Pioneer House and Missionn, Farm; and 3) she stated
that she felt there were a lot of young people on the staff without, perhaps enough
age and wisdom to run such a project and that no assurances could be offered for
the future of the program and how it was run:
Chairman Davenport asked 'Mrs, Katzmarek if she could have assurances as to the opera-
tion of the home, if she would then be less opposed to the proposal. Mrs. Katzmarek
answered that she would still object to the location based on.the overabundance
of institutions already in the area,
Tom BM, Trenton Lane, representing the Middle East Homeowners' Association,
asked if 'there was any ordiinance defining how many unrelated people could live together
in a. home., Staff responded that for a situaticn like the one proposed, the use
must be an institution or boarding house to have unrelated people living together.:
Mr. Berg asked what type of supervision was used for the children. fir. 4oftus
responded that, in addition to the "house parents" who remained with the boys at
all times except during school, there were anywhere from 1-3 interns on the premises
at any one time, plats other Staff members including Mr. "lullie and himself.
Mr. Berg questioned what areas of the metropolitan suburbs the children came from.
Petitioners indicated that, thiare was in increasing number from the northwest suburbs
and that shouldJonathan be allowed to located in Plymouth, of course, residents in
the area of the northwest: suburbs would be given priority. It is the opinion of
Hennepin County also that if a home is located in a. certain geographic area, it's
priorities in terms of placement should be the area in which it is located. Presently,
36% were from the northwest subxrrbs.
Mr. Berg asked if the boys were encouraged to socialize with the other children in
the neighborhood. Mr. Loftus responded that the boys were free to bring their friends
to the home, however, it was not done much.. The boys seemed to be more comfortable
with people in the home with them.,
Mr. Berg asked what percentage of sv cess they felt they could claim. Mr, Loftus
stated that 75% would be a, fair estimate.
Mr. 1berg questioned whether the staff had the right to turn away any of the children
they did not feel to be suita le for their program. Mr. Loftus responded that they did,.
PLANNING COMMrSSSON.MEETING MINUTES wB September 7 1977
Mr.. Berg asked the petitioners what their alternatives would :be should they not
receive approval for this site, if other sites would be available within the area
they would like to serve. Petitioners responded that it was possible other sites
would be available..
Commissioner Stewart asked Mr: Berg if,, as a realtor, he felt the property values
in the area would be affected in any way because of the group home. Mr Berg
responded that affects on the value of neighboring properties vary as to the factors
of the indivisual situation, The attitudes of the potential buyer of an adjacent
property were of course, the greatest influence and this, itself, varies. Peti-
tioners stated that they had copies of studies done in various areas indicating that
Mr. Berg was indeed: correct, that property values were not affected: positively or
negatively by such a project.
Norbert Herby, 3430 East Med4cine Lake Boulevard, submitted the petition signed by
13 homeowners in the area indicating their objection to the proposed location of the
group home. He further indicated that between 5-7 homes would be sandwiched by
institutions if this project were allc ed to be built in the ;proposed location. These
were homes on East Medicine Lake Boulevard.. Mr. Herby made three other points; 1)
the area was zoned R-1 for single family residences and he felt that this was beyond
the realty of that zoning, 2} there existed a Minneapolis ruling stating that such.
institutions could not be placed within so many feet of each other and he suggested
that this would be appropriate ordinance for the City of Plymouth to pursue, and
3) he had gathered MLS listings of several properties in the Minneapolis area that
would meet the size specifications of the home which would grant the home twice as
much building for the same value as a home in Plymouth.
John wire, 4130 Quaker Lane, asked how the trust would be handled for the property
and the home. Petitioners explained this to Mr, Wire. He also asked if the condi-
tional use permit applied. for was lost by petitioners, what the fin?d use of the home
might be. Petitioners explained that the building could be used for a single family
residence. Mr, Wire asked if the property would be tax exempt: for the time being
if used for the Jonathan Home. , Petitioners indicated that this would be so.
Dawn Wanous, 4015 Trenton Lane, stated that if the students from the home required
special teaching from the school, it would be replacing the time that someone else
living in the district would be allowed for any special teachings. Secondly,
Armstrong High School is currently run on a mod, -lar scheduling system which is rather
unstructured wherein the students do not recei'vo nearly the attention they would in
a structured situation. She stated that she did not feel this would help the type
of child that would be placed in the home.
Petitioners responded to Mrs. Wanous that in terms of special teaching required.,
they, too, would have a special learning disabilities tutor on the staff for the home,
therefore, they did not see this as a problem. Secondly, as to the modular system,
some of the boys find they prefer this system, but for those who do not, the
Home, at their own transportation expense, would take the children to another school
in the distriw:t or elsewhere where they could get the structured teaching if necessary,
Bill .Bault, 3720 Arrowood Lane, asked if the boys from the home would not be under a
stigma frons their peers being located so close to the school they attended, The
petitioners indicated that this had not been a problem in the past. The boys are
taught to deal: with this. type of situation,
PLANNING W44ISSZON MEETING MINUTES -9 September 7 1977
Denner Rxei1, 10921 -36th Avenue North, asked .what the reaction of the Armstrongad0nlststrationwastotheirproposal, Petitioners indicated that they had just
begun contacting the Robbinsdale district offices and Armstrong,, therefore, they
were as yet unaware of the reaction to the group home,
loan Ea 3640 .Saratoga Lane, asked if the boys were ailowed cars at the home,
Petitioners responded that this was difficult for the boys to do and that they
rarely had this happen. She also asked if their friends could come to the home to
pick them up in their own cars. Petitioners responded that this was possible, but
only if the boy had received and demonstrated his reliance for privileges of this
nature.
Robert Schmidt, $775 Arrowood Lane, asked if the negative leaders of the home had
a tendency to rub off on other members of the school they attended or other kids in
the neighborhood, Petitioners responded that this would not take place for long
because the boy would be forced to either coorect his behavior immediately or to
leave the program. Jonathan does, not feel it has time to deal with this type of
boy,.
There were no -further comments from members of the audience:
It was pointed out that a, statute existedregarding the existence of group homes
in communities.. The Commission agreed: that they would deal with the request from
a planning standpoint and not from a legal standpoint, but leave the legalities of
the matter to the Council' to resolve..
MOTION was made by Commissioner Stewart supported by Commissioner Schneider that the
Planning Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council
That the request of the Jonathan Home for Boys for a conditional use permit to
operate a group home for boys to be located in the southeast quadrant of
Zachary Lane and 36th Avenue North be denied based .on the following findings
I. It would guarantee the isolation of the 5-7 homes on East Medicine take
Boulevard in that they would be surrounded by institutions of one nature or
another,
2. The neighborhood already had two large institutions -for other needs within
its area i.e. Pioneer House and Mission Farm and, another one was not needed.
The area is "over -institutionalized" either by corrective institutions or
by rehabilitative institutions or by public schools,
Commissioner Stewart stated that he had no problem with the type of operation the
petitioner was proposing but that his objection stemmed from the proposed location
within a neighborhood already saturated with institutions,
MOTION FAILED (2-2-0) (Chairman Davenport and Commissioner Hoyt against)
MOTION FAILED
The Commission indicated to the concerned citizens that since the vote came out in a
tie both sides of the question would be presented to the Council at the time of its
review.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES _10- September 7, 1977
Commissioner Threinen returned to the table.
A-759' McQuay Perfex A-758 Site Plan Amendment
Staff presented petitioner's request for a site plan amendment for petitioner located'
at the southwest corner of Xenium Lane and 24th Avenue North. Additions to both the
office area and the laboratory were proposed., A recommendation for approval was,
proposed by Stuff subject to the conditions as listed, in the. Staff report of September 1,
1977.
MOTION was made by Commissioner Schneider supported by Commissioner Stewart that
the Planning Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council.
Than the request of McQuay-Perfex for site plan amendment for their building
located at the southwest corner ofXenium; Lane and 24th Avenue North to include
65,513 sq., ft, of additional office and laboratory per plans dated August 25,
1977 be approved subject to the following conditions.
1. Compliance with the provisions of the City Engineer's memorandum regarding
this project.
2. Provision of site iiiiprovements security per provisions of t Zoning
Ordinance.
3 Outdoor storage of waste or waste containers shall be prohibited.
MOTIONCARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
A-762 Minnesota Department of Natural Resources A-762 Site Plan
Staff presented the site plan proposal of the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources
WNR) for the Luce Line Trail located in the southwest corner of the City, The
DNR was presenting this plan for the Commission's review at this time.
The Commission questioned the timing of the development, policing of the trail and
how sanitation would be taken care of for the horses.
OtChristensen, representing DNR, stated that the DNR would like to start develop-
ment of the trail within the next few weeks, In terms of policing the trail the
DNR would be making regular checks on the trail and have spoken to the local police
departments to obtain their assistance as necessary, also. The DNR would also make
regular sanitation checks on the site to keep it as clean as passible.
The Commission -asked Mr. Christensen if the DNR had the monies available to undertake
the policing, sanitation and development of the trail. Mr, Christensen responded
PLANNING, `COMMISSION'MEETING MINUTES -11_ September 7 1977
that it was the opinion of the DNR that they ;had to do these things.
MOTION was made by Cotamissioner Threinen supported by Commissioner Hoyt that the Plan-
ning Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council
That the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources' request for site plan
approval of the Luce Line Trail located in the southwest corner of the City
be approved and that the following concerns regarding the trail be noted:
1. Sign location his somewhat indefinite. Bath signs should be at least 20 ft,
setback from the public street right--of-way and any property line. The
Trailhead" directional sign shoved not exceed 4 sq. ft, in area. (proposed
at 12.5 sq, ft. area),
2, All roadway and parking surfaces should be asphalt rather than crushed lime-
stone.
3. Since horses will evidently be concentrated here, the sanitation problem
should be handled properly.
MOTION CARRIEQ (5-0-0) (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
A--199 Plymouth Creekyew Addition A-199 Final Flat
Staff presented petitioner's request for final plat approval of "Plymouth Creekview
Addition" a residential plat proposed for 42 single family dwelling units located
in the northwest quadrant of Oakview Lane and Highway 55. Staff pointed out that
at its last meeting, the Parks and Recreation Advisory Commission (FRAC) had recom-
mended that a neighborhood park ,be made a part of this plat. It was proposed. to be
in the area of Lots 2, 3 and 4 Block 5 on the south side of the parcel. The PRAC
recommendation was made responsive to Council direction to find a suitable site
fora neighborhood park within this area. At present, there was no park available
for the neighborhood
The Commi'ss'ion discussed the park and its proposed location and size. It was. the:
consensus of the Commission that the three lots would not provide sufficient area for
a neighborhood park, nor would there be sufficient buffer between the adjoining resi-
dents to the park area from the noise of such an active area,
The Commission questioned John Sebold, representing Carlson Properties, ;as to their
opinion about dedicating the three lots for the park. Mr. Sebold stated that it was
his opinion that ample land area existed to the north and east of their plat for such
a park. He urged the Commission to recommend the plat as presented.
Staff pointed out that the petitioner, would probably have designed his project much
differently had they known a.bout the need for a neighborhood park at the preliminary
plat stage of the process. As currently designed, should the park be taken .from the
plat as Lots 2, 3 and 4 of Block 5, there would be unnecessary public utilities in place
in front of the lots proposed for park.
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES -12 September 7 1977
I
MOTION was made by Commissioner Threinen supported by Commissioner Stewart that
the Planning Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council:
That the request of Carlson Properties for final plat approval of "Plymouth
Creekview Addition", a plat proposed for residential development of 42 single
family dwelling units to be located in the southwest quadrant of Highway 55 and
Oakview mane., be approved subject to the following conditions.
1. Compliance with the provisions of the City Engineer's memorandum regarding
this project.
2. Private drive access to 26th Avenue North shall be approved only for mot 1,
Block 1.
MOTION CARRIED (4-1-0) (Commissioner Hoyt against) MOTION CARRIED
Commissioner Hoyt stated that she felt the proposal was adequate,, particularly with
respect to location to the proposed and to the cdjacent neighborhood. She added
that she felt a small park would be better than no park at all for the neighborhood:
MOTION was made by Commissioner Stewart, supported by Commissioner Threinen, that
the Planning Commission make the following recommendation, to the City Council
That the City actively pursue park ded`cation in the area of the Plymouth Creekview
and Creekwood Heights neighborhoods for a neighborhood park site to be in
excess of two acres in size.
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-,0) (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
A-712 Appl'ecre t Additioh A-712 Final Plat
Staff presented petitioner's request for final' plat approval of the "Applecrest
plat located at the southeast corner of Queenslarl Lane and 3rd Avenue North, a
residential plat consisting of 11 single family d",elling lots,. Staff proposeda,
recommendation for approval subject to the conditions as listed in the Staff report
of September 1, 1977,
MOTION was made by Commissioner Schneider supported by Commissioner Stewart that
the Plannitfg Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council.
That the request of Patrick J. Henry for final plat approval of "Applecrest"
a residential plat consisting of 11 single family dwelling units located at
the southeast corner of Queensland' Lane and 3rd Avenue North be approved subject
to the following conditions;
1 Compliance with provisions of the City Engineer's memorandum regarding this
project:
2. Park Dedication requirements shall be satisfied through fees-in-lieu in the
amount of $1,5QO.00 ($150 X 10 lots),
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) - (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
PLANNING COMMISSION KEETING. MINUTES -13_. September 7, 1977
A-735 Robert E. Middlemist A-735 Lot: Division
Staff presentedpetitioner's request for lot division approval of a parcel located
in the southeast quadrant of Zachary Lane and County Road 9. A recommendation
for approval was proposed subject to the conditions as listed in the Staff report
of September 1, 1977,
MOTION was made by Commissioner Stewart supported by Commissioner Hoyt that the Plan-
ning Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council
That the request of Robert E. Middlemist for lot division of his property
located in the southeast quadrant of Zachary Lane and County Road 9 be approved
subject to the following conditions:
1. Payment of $1,0 Park Dedication fees -in -lieu,
2. Provision of utility and storm drainage easements within 6 ft, of all property
Lines of Parcel B.
3. Prohibition of building permits to Parcel A until platted.
MOTION' CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
A-753 Erling Linden A-753 Preliminary Plat
Staff presented petitioner's request for preliminary plat approval of a six lot
residential plat located at the northeast corner of Queensland Lane and 3rd Avenue
North, It was pointed out that, foll'-owing a motion to deny, the Commission had, acted
to defer this plat at its meeting of August 17,, 1977 in order that Staff could notify
property owners north of the site to attend this meeting. Staff indicated that this
had been done and that, all affected property owners were in attendance at this meeting.
The critical point of discussion at the meeting of August 17, 1977 was the future
platting of properties to the north based on the proposed platting of the Linden
property. Staff had recommended a half right -of --way of 30 ft. at the north edge of
Mr. Li'nden's property to facilitate future road configurations for the property owners
to the north and. to avoid the potential for a double load of assessments for the
properties.
City Engineer Goldberg stated that he determined the sewer would have to come from
the north which would eliminate the problems previously mentioned regarding the
sewer service to the property,
Jim Parker, engineer for the Linden:, indicated that he felt it would be feasible`
for the roadway as proposed: by Staff to be moved approximately 110 ft, further north
and still accomplish the same effect without interfering with the Linden plat as
proposed,
Chairman Davenport asked Miss Linden, owner of the property immediately north of
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES -,14- September 7, 1977
the proposed plat, if she would object to such an alignment, Miss Linden indicated
that she would not object, that she felt this would be a better solution.
The Commission and Staff explained to each of the other affected property owners
how the alignments would work and how sewer would be extended to serve their properties
should they choose to subdivide.. Mr. Loomis and Mr. Graves stated tl;at they under-
stood the consequences of the development as explained by Staff. Further, both
stated they had no objection to the Linden plat as currently proposed.
MOTION was made by Commissioner Threinen supported by Comwissioner Stewart that the
Planning Commission make the following recommendation to.the City Council:
That the request of Erling Linden for preliminary plat approval of the "RollingRidgeAddition", a residential plat for six lots located at the northeast
corner of Queensland Lane and 3rd Avenue 'North, be approved subject to the
following conditionY
Compliance with the provisions of the City Engineer's memorandum on this
project,
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
MOTION was made by Commissioner Threinen supported by Commissioner Schneider that the
Planning Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council
That the Council render an opinion on the future of Queensland 'Lane including
potential assessment policies for the properties adjacent thereto.
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
JA -754 Norman P, Jarnes A-754 Preliminary Plat
As requested, petitioner had returned to the Commission with a. revised platting of
the property located west of Vicksburg Lane and southeast of 8th Avenue North,'con-
sisting of five lots proposed for residential single family development. It had
been determined by Staff that only one variance remained for the property, Lot 1..
A recommendation for approval was proposed by Staff subject to the conditions -of the
Staff report of September 1, 1977
John C. Miller, 15035 -8th Avenue North, the property owner adjacent to the north
edge the proposed plat, stated that he objected to the density of the proposed
plat. He stated that he felt it w,s inconsistent with the area and would not be pro-
per; Mr. Miller's lot would be the most directly affected by the variance as it would.
place the home on Lot 1 of the proposed plat quite close to his property,
The Commission discussed the plat and concurred that the new proposal was non-
responsive to the direction given petitioner at 'the previous meeting and, with the
new alignment of the road, the lots seemed quite gerrymandered,
PLANNING COMM,!SSION MEETING MINUTES ` 15- September 7 1977
MOTION was made by Commissioner Schneider supported by Commissioner Hoyt that
the Planning Commission make the following recommendation to the City Council;
That; the request of Norman P, Jarnes for preliminary plat approval of his
five lot single family residential plat located West of Vicksburg Lane and
southeast of 8th Avenue North be denied based upon the following findings
1. The lot depth for Lot 1 of the proposed plat is deficient,
2. The lot lines as de-,i,;,ad are gerrymandered,
MOTION CARRIED (5-0-0) (All in favor) MOTION CARRIED
REPORTS OF OFFICERS, BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS
Capital Improvements Program, 1978-82
The Planning Commission discussed the proposed Capital Improvements Program for
the years 1978-1982 with Staff and the City Engineer.
Two. points of concern were South Shore Drive and 10th Avenue North upgrading and
provision of an access to Medicine Lake for boat launching.
Staff also presented the Parks and Recreation Advisory Commission recommendations for
parks and. trails. It was pointed out that there were two approaches taken to the
parks portion of the CIP--one as recommended by PRAC and one as recommended by Staff.
MOTION was made by Commissioner Schneider supported by Commissioner Stewart that the
Planning Commission hake the following recommendation to the City Council;
That the Capital Improvements Program for 1978-1982 as presented, with the,
Staff proposed recommendation for the parks element of the Capital Improvements
Program, be approved a presented,
MOTION CARRIED (4-1-0) (Coivnissiover Threinen against) MOTION CARRIED,
commissioner Threinen stated that he felt the PRAC reeommended'.parks CIP was most
appropriate.
MOTION TO ADJOURN was. made by Commissioner Stewart supported by Commissioner Schneider,
Chairman Davenport adjourned the meetin^ at 1:45 a.m,
APPROVED BY PLANNING COMMISSION Oc..ober 19, 1977
David J. Davenport, Chairman
Pl mouth Planning Commission
C ar es Ey Dllerud, Secretary