HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 03-06-1974PLANNING COMMISSION
CITY OP PLYMOUTH, 14INNESOTA
A regular meeting of the Plymouth Plaiining Commisoion was called to
order by Chairman Kroskin, at 7:37 p.m. in the Couneil Chambers of
the Public Works Building, 14900 23rd A -venue North,
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairmv n Kroskiii, Commissioners Hagen, Davenport,
Bri,ckson, Schneider, Stewart and Threinen
MEMBER$ ABSENT: None
STAI F PRESENT: Marti, -i Overhise-, Milt Dale, Lou Tiber
Public HeariDr Opened 7:40 p,m.,
Prop o s ecr —155naments to the Adopted "Comprehensive Municipal Plan"
of July Z, 10-73 For the Area Generally North of Co. Rd. 9, Fast
of Zachary Lane,, South of 49th Avenue North and West of Co. Rd.
Planning Co4mission minutes March 6, 1974
and Golderx Valley on the east so that this would be a radius of
approximately 1-2 mikes. The City would strive to keep the
commercial and, sevvice business areas compact and centrallylocatedinthisneighborhood, allowing the City also to control
traffic and keep :congestion in one area.
Tho service businesses are those businesses which customarilyyouwould, find located near or adjacent to a retail center and
normally wouldn't want space in a shoppingcenter, because they
may require more parking space or a larger site: than would be
economically affordable in a retail center.
In the zoning ordinance being worked on by the. planning
Commission most uses are interchangeable in a retail area or
a service business area by conditional use permit in one of
the other districts.
Chairman Kroskin inquired: about the total number of acres to
be affected by the chaiges .
Planner Qverhiser explained they would include a change from
24 acres in two locations to 15 acne, in one area. The limited
business or office would be increased from 65 to 85 acres.
Tom Berg of the Middle East Homeowners Association presented
hairman Kroskin a petition containing signatures of 145
residents of this area who request the highway service at
Zachary Lane and Co. Rd. 9 be deleted and the Land be guided
low density residential, and the highway service located at
the NIV corner of Co. Rd. 9 and 1-8 ands ur directly NE and adjacent
to the Rockford Pond Shopping Center be deleted with the land
guided limited business.
Those residents signing the petition indicated the highway
service area as shown by the current guide plan would creatE
undue hardship on the neighborhood with non -neighborhood traffic
through the neighborhood, sound and site pollution, congestion
caused 'by the combination of inlet-outlet one street only
accessibility to the shopping area. The highway ,service area,
will also create danger to the children crossing Co. Rd. 9
Rnsi.dents of the neighborhood wish 'to prevent this detriment
to their neighborhood and believe the proper location for the
highway service is the SW corner of 4fth Avenue and Co Rd. 18
because of existing diamond interchange and accessibility viaCo. Rd. 18, and also visibility from the highway.
Tom Wanous of the Lost Lake Homeowners Association stated he is
in agreement with Mr.. Berg's comments.
fired Mengelkoch, 104.0 Rockford Road, indicated the proposed
c ange in sexvice area appears to be a logical location iniconnection. with the shopping center appx,ove z and proposed for
construction this springs
Planning Commission Minutes March 6, 1974
Bob Fleskes, 4100 Quaker Lane, indicated he is opposed to the
proposed change Lan a—Use Guide Plan and felt there is
better accessibility for traffic at 49th Avenue,
John Wire, 4130 uaker Lane Xorth'in4icated he supports the
ideas expressed by Tom Bergi
Mr. Charles Richard 5038 Bruco Place, indicated some 17 years
ago he purchaselaso85 acres at the XNAV corner of Co. Rd,, 18 and 9, d
which was considered commercial land, The property was changedtoserviceandisnowproposedtobelimitedbusiness. He
recommended this area be left highway service or commercial.,
Highway service does demand visibility which we do not have with
the proposed plan. Originally he was unable, to develop because
of uncertainty of the highway, and then the downgrading in
zoning. Mr. Richard inquired, how the City proposed the develop- ment of 85 acres for office facilities.,
Chairman Xroskin advised the current Northwestern Bell site alone
is 28-30 acres and blot at this rate 85 acres could be utilized
rapidly. Also, this is a plan for the ultimate development of
Plymouth over possibly 50 years. The only plan which had been
adopted for this area is the Land Use Guide Plan adopted in
July 1973. There were studies done and a plan called a Section 12
Plan was adopted bar the Planning Commission but -never ado ted 1,
the Council,
Dennis Gonyea, 50 Groveland Terrace, indicated he is opposed to
THe proposed amendment to the Comf7rehensive Municipal Plan and
is in favor of the existing plan, because of the flexibility
allowed and because the cloverleaf was situated there to handle
heavy traffic created by commercial use of the land.
Chairmaii Kroskin emphasizeJ that it is a very significant fact
that until this Land Use Guide Plan was adopted in 1913 none of
the plans had heen accepted by Council.
Mr. Gonyea indicated that when the County, Plymouth and New Hope
were working out the cloverleaf, consideration was given to the
fact that the area had always been a retail area and more than
just a local shopping center, He stated he does not intend to
begin developing his property piecemeal.
Robert Baldwin, 4175 West Broadway, stated Highway 18 had been
built at great expense, and there will be traffic in the area
whether the result is limited business or service 'business.
I
There are approximately 17 homes from which the service business
area, as proposed, might be visible because of the topography of
the land.
Willard JohanLoi, who owns property between the Mengelkoch property
and the -pr oposed shopping center, indicated his approval of the
revised plan,
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Planing Commission Minutes 4 March 6, 1974
Commissioner Hagen said the purpose of the Laney Use Guide Plan
is to try to guide development of the Cita. Co. Rd. 9 bisects
Plymouth in an east -west direction. The comment is often made
that Rockford Road will be the entrance to Plymouth on the east
because of connections through New Hope, Crystal, Robbinsdal.e,
and into Minneapolis. In the proposed ordinance the uses under
service business vs. neighborhood retail the differences are
very few. The four differences are highway oriented and must
have good highway ac es. It is more difficult to get at a
business: on a cloverleaf than a diamond. Businesses can all be
accomplished except those specifically needing highway access,
such: as motels and types of uses that should be next to a highway.
The commercial use in the neighborhood does allow automobile
agencies by conditional use permit,
Mr. &hiss. Henry Mitchell, 4700 Zachary bane, sent a letter
O-Kfe iig T-0--t-Ne c ange until. they, receive more information
letter attached)
Public nearing closed 8:37 p.m. Hearing Closed
MOTION was made by Commissioner Stewart, supported by Commissioner
Threinen that the Planning Commission act upon this matter this
evening
Motion carried unanimously 7-0 MOTION CARRIED
Roger Faxen in an Donald HustaU ='Planned Unit Development
Approval, for a Residential Development. Location: SE Corner
of Hadley Dake (A-522)
Public. Hearing opened 8.40 p.m. FAZENDIN-HUSTAD
Planned Unit
Planner averhiser explained this has been submitted Development Approval
as a concept plan for a proposed planned unit develop-
ment, and is being reviewed against the proposed amendment
which has been submitted to the Council but has not yet been
adopted by the Council. The text of the Planning Commission
recommendation is being used. The Council has proposed
increasing the minimum from 20 to 40 acres for a planned unit
development, The procedure was toren outlined. The intent is
not to allow a developer to ,increase the trumber of dwelling
un:'ts, but to allow him to rearrange and cluster in order to
save some natural feature of the ;land.
The purpose of this evenings meeting is an information
presentation to the Planning Commission, the public, and the
neighboring property owners. The Planning Commission will
pass on a recommendation to the City Council, and the Council
in -turn will either approve or deny the concept plan. The
Staff has recommended that the concept plan be denied for the
following reasons;
Planning Commission Minutes March 6, 1974
1) The site is under Che minimum required for such adevelopment, and development has shown no evidence
that the site qualifies as having unusual features
that could not be preserved by a standard subdivisionoffrom10-14 lots, nor dr 4,s it ad
development. join a planned unit
2) Density proposod is 12 units over the allowable R-1 densityinthearea
mer Fazendin stated his disagreement about whe-th,,qr it would be
practic—a to put in a standard subdivision. The area stated i
Planning Commission Minutes - 6 - march 6 1974
Mr. Fazendin reported the possibility would be lessened vith a
planned unit development for a variety of reasons, including
very short driveways, and the storm sewer would handle that
runoff. Some of the best developments in Plymouth have been
built by the smaller builder, and,Mr. Fazen.din said 40 acre
planned unit developments are too Large an area.
Chairman Kroskin stated the P.U.D. Ordinance is an experiment,
and, therefore, we plan. to proceed at a conservative pace. Most
often a builder will come in with the minimum requirements..
Commissioner Erickson asked if the total tract, incluling two
existing homes, would be owned in common by a homeowners
association, and Mr. Fazendin replied that it most likely
would,, except that one home is planned for removal.
Mr. Williams, 17725 'Third Avenue North, asked for a definition
a Planne `Unit Dovelopment.
Planner Overhiser answered that a Planned Unit Development is
very flexible, and its purpose is to look at the overall total
dwelling units for a development. They could be all single-
family detached, glusterod iso a development, duplex, two dwellings
attached with a common wall as is proposed here. Other plans may
include conventional townhouses. Usually a multiple dwelling is
defined as three -or more, such as an apartment building. In this
case the: proposal is for a clustering of duplexes, or two units
with a common Mall under one roof
Mary Anderson, 1.7800 'third Avenue North, stated she agreed it is
a gorgeous property and recommends selling large lots and still
maintain the country atmosphere. She also asked if private horses
could currently be built without bringing in City sewer and grater.
Planner Overhiser said special. approval would have to be obtained
from the City Council., and they would have to submit percolation
tests by an engineering firm that would attest to the soil's
capabilit- of functioning under a private disposal system.
However, 14e City's policy generally is that new units are not
approved of unless water and sewer is extended
Dr. Nathan Plimpton, 18315 Eighth Avenue, inquired as to the total:
number of acres under consideration; and Chairman Xroskin responded
the, staff report states 13.2 gross acres, and the question is
where the high water mark is. Using the City Engineer's high
water mark it would be. 7. acnes of buildable Land.
Mrs. Nathan Plimpton expressed concern about: the quality of the
lake and asci. mere were plans to bring in fill. She also
expressed concern about the number using this lake, which is
private, and the possible impact of snowmobilers and others.
Mrs. E. M. Rustan 18420 Eighth Avenue, stated her concerns are
the same as those expressed by firs ; Plimpton and that the privacy
now enjoyed may be destroyed by a large development.
a
Planni,n Commission Minutes - 7 - March 6 1974
Commissioner Kroskin read a petition containing 24 signatures
presented by Mr. Brli.ng W Linden which reads, "Whereas Nwe
the undersigned,, are residents in an area for single dwellings
do not wish to accommodate multiple dwellings,,.
Jim Bodd
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1.pourth Avenue North, Hawthorne fonds, inquired about
is and the adequacy of the r.owl -with this plan as
opposed to a. single-family developa.ent
Roger P`asendin stated there would naturally be less traffic if
theme are not young families in a community. There are man)
5 -acre pieces to be developed, and when they are developed
in this area:, it should be in the best interest of everyone.
Public hearing closed 9.37 p.m Dearing Closed':
MOTION was made by Commissioner Thheinen, support -ed by Commissioner
Erickson to act on this request tonight,,
Mot on carried unanimously, 7-0 MOTION CARRIED
ropo.>e ; Amendments to the Adopted "Comprehensive Municipal
Plan" of July 2, 1973 Por the Area Generally North of Co. Rd.
9, Bast of Zachary Lane, South of 49th Avent -, North and West
of Co. Ind. 18. (Pile #AG -TI Bb
MOTION was made by Commissioner Stewart, supported by Commissioner
Threinento propose an amendment to the Land Use Guide plan Norah
of Co. Rd. 9 and West of Co. Rd. 18 to eliminate the Service
Business area at the NW quadrant of Co Rd. 9 and move this to
an approximate 1S -acre site on the SW quadrant of 49th Avenue,,
and to extend the Limited Business south to Co. Rd. 9 and West
to Nathan L- ; and further to eliminate the Service Business
area at Z aciiax y Lane and Co. Rd 9
Commissioner Threinen stated, he is aware of the fact the Planning
Commission has submitted t1lii.s proposal to Council before, however,
he said the traffic argument is valid, and he very much believes
in the neighborhood concept.:
Commissioner Stewart stated he believes we need service districts,
but this happens to be a particular area where there are no
residents at the time around 49th. If Co. Rd, 9is to be the
gateway to Plymouth, the amenities of offices is much more
desirable than service type businesses.
Commissioner Hagen indicated his support in 1(,cating the service
area at the SAY quadrant of 49th Avenue,
Commissioner Schneider stated it may be t4 onal, e to
Northwestern Bell to have the service arco at 4.-k.-11. :, enue
Planning Commissiun Minutes Apri1 3, 1974
Mr. Clemence added thatdensityproposed for the Mission Properties would be
the same as at Poston. lie also showed slides of Tapiol a in Finland, a new
town where density is 15 dwelling units per acre., or approxiriatel;y double
that proposed on the Mission Properties. 11 Tapi'ola approximately 50 percent
of the levelopmeat is in open space.
Mr. C'emence stressed That the. Missiun Partnership has, through the purchase
Of these large parcels of land, the opportunity to provide many more amenities
on a siteto than woO d be possible if several .owners were to develop the
property. The 'Partnership is proposing such amenities as a. nine -hole golf
course, provision for low and moderate cost housing, elderly housing, a wide
range of housing Types, natural areas, crass -country skiing and hiking tra;ls,
ski slopes and, some 200 acres in either public or private open space. The
Mission Partnership believes that this can not be done unless a density of
3,150 uhlts is allowed. Peter Pflaum, representing Lundgren Brothers
Construction, Inc., stated that the approach the Partnership took was that
they were showing what they felt was the best use of the land and not attempting
to tie themselves down to the Land Use Guide Plan. He added that presently only
25 percent of the population in the Metropolitan 4rea can afford single family
homes and this percentage will be even less in the future. Cogsegu;"ntly, it
will be Necessary to provide less expensive housing Nvhich. takes advantage of the
Planned Unit Development approach to satisfy future ihousing demands. The
Mission Properties will be close to work opportunites within Plymouth which will
help to alleviate the present energy crisis,
Chairman Kroskin asked Mr. Clemence to deline,te the land that the Partnership
does not own. Mr. Clomence indicated that the Mapgood: Park addition, -the
Mission Farms proper of 95 acres, and several lots south of Maywood Park are
not owned by the Partnership. Chairman Krotkin also wanted to know why the
reference was made to 512 acres t1nd density calculated for this entire 512
acres when only 417 acres would be available for development. This, question
led to some discussion relating to density and it was resolved that the
density for the 41.7 acres would be approximately 7.5 dwelling units
per acre.:: Commissioner Davenport wanted to know k°:tat amenities Mould not be
possible on the property should a lo.,wer density level be recommended. Mr.
Clemence Mated that this has not been studied in any great detail so he could
not answer the question at this time; however, they had ooked at-: density
levels greater thato 3,150 dwelling units, but did not believe that the higher
levels w re appropriate for the site.
Chainiian Kroskin opened the meeting to the public: and asked if any individuals
cared to question the petitioners..
Mr. Bennis Dander, 13715 - 28th Avenue No., wtanted to know why the Partnership"
Included property they 4.. d not own in calculating .density. This was in
reference to the 95 acres under the i ii ssi on Farms Ownership which use would
continue at that site. Mr. Pahl, superintendent of the Union City Mission
Farm, said that the Mission Farms would not be open to the public as such, but
they did want to be identified with the community that Would be developed on the
Mission Property and he was in favor of a "Wood lake" type development on th:,,
Planning Commission Minutes - - March 6, 1074
21 It does not fit und,.r preserving a special feature, and,
therefore, the land is too small as presented hese but might well be
developed under a P.U,D. if more adjacent land were acquired,
Commissioner Hagen stated that the Ordinance somehow should be
able to accommodate developing a piece of property like this,
but doesn't exactly :eel duplexes or any type of attached housingisappropriate; and he suggested the possibility, of clustering iftheyweredesignedinapackage, and get some good quality homes
properly situated that meet single family density requirements.
Motion carried unanimously 7-0 MOTION CARRIED
Rena Y_st&mE, In A` RENAL SYSTEMS
Mr. Rod Lacy, 1.7515 24th Avenue North
Conditional Use Permit
requested a conditional use permit for a
manufacturing process in an 1-1 District. The
petitioner intends to employ from 11-12 employees in
approximately 15,000 sq. ft. of space with 7,000 sq. ft,
of space in active use and 8,000 sq, ft. in storage use,
A Approximately 3,000 sq. ft, of the active uxe space will
be in office use. Equipment to be, used in the assembly
process will be a will, lathe and a. drill. They intend
to purchase on the outside and then package and sell to
the meeical profession. The process will require the use
of from 1,000 to 2,000 gallons of water each day. There
will be no discharge of caustic matter into the City sewer,
nor will the percentage of salt in the w,,yter discharged exceed
that used in, the average water softener.
MOTION was made by Commissioner Hagen, supported by Commissioner
Stewart that the requost of Renal Systems, lr,.c: for a Conditional'
Use permit for a manufacturing process for `artificial kidney
machines in an I-1 District be approved subject to the condition
that no outdoor storage of waste or materials be allowed.
Motion carried unanimously, 7-0 MOTION CARRIED
7-S-4 PIFmoMffi oil CPLYMOUTH OIL COMPANY
Site Plan .Review
Milt Dale indicated the petitioner, Jim Hay, has Conditional Use Permit
brought in a' revised site plan_ changing from an. eight
stall garage to a six -stall garage, which does comply
with all ordiwtnces in terms of setbacks,
Planning Commission Minutes - 10 March 6, 1974
Commissioner Stewart inquired as to the outcome of the City
Engineer's study of traffic flow as requested by the Platin. ngCommissionthelasttimethisitemwasbeforetheCommission.
Planner Overhiser indicated the. City Engineer has been contactinntheCountyinanattempttohovesignallightsinstalledat36th
and Co. RO, 18. This is currently being worked on by the CityStaffandCountyStaff. However, this isn't enough of a problem
to justify our not granting this request. A goru, share of traffic
is already being generated in this area, and petitioner should
not be penalized because his operation will add to this traffic.
With reg id to State Building Code requI.rements, petitioner does
intend to sprinkle the building,
Commissioners Hagen and Stewart inquired about Control over situ-
ations such as the condition of the premiss with regard to inop- erative, abandoned vehic`l.es. They granted assurance the City, of
Plymouth coulee maintain leverage through the petitioner's license
to operate the service station if City demands were not complied
with.
Planner Cverhiser commented the petitioner's renewal of his license
to operate a gas and oil service: station was withheld for 60 days
last year until the site was cleaned up. Also, with the grant:.ng
of this conditional use permit there is additional control.
Commissioner Schneider stated that if all stalls were in use, or
even possibly six at one time, there would be the automobiles of
the mechanics, dispatcher, and service station o-,erator parked on
the property, and the site plan allows for 18 parking spaces.
Additional parking will be required for those vehicles awaiting
service offered, and also for those automobiles which have been
completed and may be picked. up, Traffic in the vicinity will also
be increased considerably as a result of the increased size of this
faciity.
Petitioner Hay stated they do dispatch a package delivery servicebusinessfromthislocation. Theis is also one taxi owned by thebusiness, and they intend to park and maintain only their own taxi,
rather than those dispatched from the site.
Planner Qverhiser stated the petitioner, although creating additional
traffic or congestion, is also being taxed for using the street, and
denial of this request may not be based on this factor. The CityCouncilhasalsoordered. extending 34th Avenue West through the
Tiburon Development, may help relieve the problem somewhat.
Petitioner flay advised most of those people who will be using the
service facilities will be those who are curre.tL customers.
Commissioner Schneider again stated hi, concern over the volume of
traffic and demands on off-street parking required.
Planning Commission %Unutes - ll- March 6, 1974
Planner Overhiser stated the Conditional Use Permit and the E.iznual
review of the permit for his gasoline and oil station license will
give the Citi* control over the problem,, if one exists,
Petitioner flay indicated the property north of his is owrpd by thie
County andcould be for sale this Petitioner tonrhasbeen _,,r,
contact with the County with regard to tho purchasing said property,
which could relieve any future parking problem.
Commissioner Threinen inquired if the property purchased from the
County would be hardsurfaced, and the petitioner responded it would.
Commissioner Stewart asked the petitioner if he would prefer to
have the Planning Commission defer action and he take another
careful look at his plans as proposed,
Petitioner Hay replied he already owns the eight -stall building
and must scrap the two unuseable stalls. He owns the service
station, also, and has reason to believe from trade periodicals
that the stations offering tune-up services in addition to selling
gasoline and oil will have the best chance of survival during the
energy crisis The decision to expand has been based on this
information.
MOTTON was made by Commissioner Erickson, supported by Chairman.
Xroskin that the request be approved for a conditional use permit
subject to the conditions stated in the staff report;
1) That the proposed pylon sign conform to the sign ordinance
relative to setbacks (50 feet from property line) and maximum
surface area, (64 sq. ft. for identification sign and 16 sq.
feet for price signs limited to two).
2) Tiiat no outdoor storage of inoperative motor vehicles be
allowed.
3) That the enclosed outside waste storage area be located
20 feet north of the NW corner of building.
4) That $290 ($500/acre X X58 acre = ,$200) be paid to City
prior to a building permit being issued to satisfy park
dedication. requirements
5) 'That a landscape bond be posted and a completion date
established prior to a building permit being issued.
MOTION was made by Commissioner Stewart, supported by Commissioner
Erickson, to amend the original notion by adding Condition # 6
6) Body work, paint work, n)ai or engine repair or MOTION TO AMBND
anything else not conforming to .code will not
be permitted.
MOTION TO AMEND carried urani-mousl y AMENDMENT CARRIED
Planning (commission Minutes 12 - March 6, 1974
MOTION was made by Comm lssionor Threinen, supported by MOTION To AMEND
COmMissxoner Stewart, to amend the original mot -on byadding. Condition #7*
7) No rental storage of commercial vehicles will be
permitted on this property.
MOTION TO AMEND carried unanimously AMENDMENT CARRIED
ORIGINAL NOTION as amended carried unanimously MOTION CARRIED
MOTION was made by Commissioner Threinen, supported by 2/20/74
Commissioner Stewart to approve the Planning Commission; Minutes
minutes of February 20, 1974. Motion carried unanimously7-0.
MOTION to adjourn, 11 r) 0 , m . Adjourn
0 APPROVED BY PLANNING COMMISSION March 29, 1974
Reg Krosh.in, Chairman
Plymouth Planning Commission
Attachmentst
Martin W. Overhiser, Secretary
1, Letter dated March 5, 1:974 from Mz, hers Henry Mitchell
2. Petition on Proposed Amendments to Comprehensive Municipal Plan
3. Petition on Pazendin-Hustad Planned Unit Development