HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 01-26-1972Y
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Sanuary 426'. 197
At .reg alar m eti Y, of the Plant iirt Coz=is„31on was calUr to order by Chairman Waia
at 700 p . m in. the Council Chamherrs of the Public T orRs BuildirG an Wedaesdays
i,awary 26, 1972-
IMMI-RS *MSZXTz Chair_nan Sita 19ahl., Cormissioners Sill SKee;le;y j John Roth, Dale
2ollock, and Re: %:oskizz
MmTMS AtSENTw Wara;eta Chaptar
STAF rRESE” IlFartin Ovethtsor, Sandy Haugen
0 `£MFRS. PRESENT.- Larry Boardman, Ralph Gooc wiz , Milford Dummer, Herold Bakke,
Frank Davorakz Robert Stillwell, Stannton Ranarian and other
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A-10 plt.z uth Villaze (;pals, .?bject!Ir_s &- Crit^rid A -10_a
A; 1?ublic Hearing was held to consider the Village Goals, Objec- GOALS
ttvres and Criteria as drafted by the Planning Commissioa., The & CRIT21MA
Public '4xeariat; was opernnd at 7:35 p.m.
PUBLIC PEARIMI
Utrr m I co ardman, 415,E Revere Lane czuestioned the Commissioners
regarding Objective 11 under Suitable Housing and Environment
relative to the natural pozadi.ng areas. it -seas explained that this "tUESTTC.'S
particular objective was put in, to avoid a situati ou Wiere natural. DIUCUSSIC
ponding arLus Veto filled itt or obscructed necessitating pipe storm
sewer systemq which are very expensive.
planner Overhiser indicated that the flood plaint ordinance was high
on the list of priority items as adopted by the Council 'last night.
Chairman Wahl e epl.a.ieied to the group the definitions and time-
frame of tt"a gods :P.d cbjc..t_• Cls bainJ, Lscd
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Ralph Goodwin, 1430 D Vanier bane raise,.' ...ltt-t g2zestio t regarding
the first objective under Suitable 1110usins and nvi o=ent~ `The
optinuzm populat;zoza should be , pprovirata ly 1-13,,000.11 Thea :Co mi..s..,
s-one~rs etipla-fined this eras meant to set a .figure seg that *hen
looki , at projects in the Future. these Gods, Objectives and
Criteria would be used as, a framework against which -the Vi`i la e
Guide Plan till be referred. Ntr. Good,iza then asked what the
miximm spot density is and was told it ,mss 28 units per acre;.
chairman Wah! explained that the evwatual developMent of the cora
amity would be less than 20 'percent .ndust:.io7. and resid ntial
otiter than single family d ellin-s. Com:dasioner Pollock pointed
out that tb: se fitnixes were eormu ted on. they basis of *the z°l4"' as
it presently exists and that the first criteria under this object-
ive. vias that this shall. be revi,ewexi anzaazal1. and revised if
necessary ',y the, Planta nS Contmission.
Pl.amai n; cmw4ssion -2 January 26, 1972
Milford Ilu mhr, 10330 4lat A-venue Noreh. questioned if there is a
codo as ;far as building a single family. home regavding hater draim .
age because of the soil and water proble : s, in the. Grillage. Harold
Bakke,, Chair.,-aa #f the, Building >Codes Advisory Board, indicated
there: are general provisions for drainage array from the house,, but
beyond Uiat no firm guide lines. Chairmaa W:.hl advised the group-
t),),-.,t
roup%
hst this is taken a,.,>ay from the: Village effective July of this
year when the sfata-wide building codes go into effect. Planner
Qverhiser indicated the, pr,,^,essina of permit requests and inspec s
tions will still be made by Vlllagc staff, and the Village has a
oxide variety= of infor:°atioya, on soil and topography' in addition to }
w . rm : rIgc It r v+. ilei, di i'.,1 ted., i
x .a,.• in`sx.iY mac; ,,.r3 a.t2ik ,
ranl 3evoratt,38`5 Saratoga lane, referred to a recent yf2nnesota
supreme court ruling which said that 'when a contractor .puts a home
in, where living, is i.atended in the basement that contractor is
dutiful to provide zor those problems.
Baki;e stated he felt the way, to sjetat it is to have general
provisions for proper drainage, soil tests ant a; alysis of the
conditions with no special amendments approved upless it is a ',hard-
ship case.
tarry Boardman sited two bad situatior s wi,thi,r, the Village which
are contrary to the critari;a of locat.wng elementary . s hools where
there is a minimum oi~ vehicular traffic. Qon-umissioaer ?chock
poin. tod out that thy: schools are independent districts who must
submit their plans to the x'" `! ann .ng, Co t'..;aiss on for their review;
howre'ver, the Planning Commission does not have any veto power over
them.. Chairman Wahl noted, however, specific cases where the Plan-
ning Co=A ssion is now working with school, boards and progress is
being made.
Commissioner Pollock stated he would like to get some reaction. on
the housing goals and objectives, spec%fi:calll.y on -the variety of
types aria styles of housing, including public housi.no, low and
moderate income: housing, senior citizen housing, high-rises,. town-
houses, etc.
Robzr t St '.lwell of Winsor-, aricy Architects asked why pa kin
must be beneath apartment houses. Commissioner Keeley explained
that, this was, tied in with the zoning ordinance ahanges to be dis
cussed at the sacoad, Public Hearing., They felt shed-type garages
were not aesthetically pleasiaS and were a fare and windstorm hazard;.
They were basically trying to create getter quality housing in the
Village.
qtr. Rummer felt we should guard against some types of housing such
ars public housi,t . i3. Boardman felt there is room in Plymouth
foe: eery type of housing if it is planned. lie felt the master
platy =shokild, be developed first,, and now is the time to plp.n when
there ins vtill plenty of open land
Planning commission -3- January 26, 1972
Commissioner Pollock pointed out one of the problems with
ythat
planning low and moderate income housing is that you do in fact
create a ghetto, and it has been; found that the. most: satisfactovy
solution is to scatter the housing. Commissioner KrosKn felt that j
i .ixg of different types of housing hadn't been done long enough
yet to prou:e that it can be successful. Commissioner Roth telt
that mixing low income housing in multiple. development areas wool d
not create p'rC}blems as much as mix ingthese types in single family
residence districts vinere the quality of the home would be the
greatest problem I
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The !iaariti, was cl ad at 8»45 p.m., PUBLIC IMARING CLOSED
Motion grade by Coixti.ssioner Pollock, second by Commissioner
Keeley, for action at the present meeting. Motion passed 5-0. MOTION FOR ACTION
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A-11 Multiple Dayelonvatt .morovement Cc it;tee Report A-11
xA Public hearing was held to cc asidor the IYultiple Development MUME DEVEL,OPaE\IT
lmpro,reme.nt Cow,- ittee's recor=ended changes to the Zoning Ordi- IMPROVEMI , X CfD[MITTEa
trance;. The Public I earrng was opened: at 9.00 p.m. REPORT
SPlazxner Overhiser told th' group that the report t,as a result of PUBLIC HEARING
a cor. ttee appointed by the "layor to study the quality of residen-
tial developmnt in the Village. Three of the committee members
were present at the Public UearirZ. Commissioner Bill. Keeley,
Ralph, Goodwinn, and Harold Balds*e.
Planner Ove;hiser pointed' out the major items of change;
1.. Private garage defined as an attached garage, and, detached
garages permitted by Conditional Use Permit MAJOR IMS OF MANGE
2, Semi -private garages in multiple dwellings must be in a
subterranean structure located wholly or in part under, the
principal structure.
3.;" Changes in some of the credits permitted in ,the calculation
of the nu6er of units per acre in the R-4 Distftct.
4. Any multiple residence building of three stories or more
r shall be equipped with at least one public elevator, and
Lobby located beti zeen each required stair towers
S. Garage disposal, in all residential units, Institutional
facilities, industrial or commercial operatiQn5
Mr, , Roger tarnes, President of the Hadley Hills Pfomeowaers PROpONENM
Association and Chairman of the ,' meowners Associations Joint
Council appeared in favor of the reca=endations, spaci..fi<ca;,y
that involving undergtound garagos, in rall,tiple dwelli.ne S ,, ind-
cated he Would Find this the lease offensive if required to lyre
next: to a multipletiple dwelli ng.
Planning Cos .mi.ssi on -4., January 26 1972
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Rcbert Stillwell expressed his ),. p opinion that snd.r,round garages OF1'E?,RqTS
axe, not the: only way to matte apartments less off ensiva o and they,
could present a problem if the ground is swampy. He felt there
are other w=ays to doit,, and, the door should be left open,. J
tatstron Henaman of YMO also, felt theta are other, types of parking
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possible that are aesthetically plea.siag ,and not necessarily under-
grounda he felt the`wordix is :extremely confining if you are
striving for aesthetically pleasing apartments
1lir. coodifin explained. that grade level is defined so ,that a be7rmed
dap garage, would be loeneath -grace level..
Commitzsioaer Pollock polntq € out tshatw,variances can be -ranted for
a, hardship case such as very poor crater level conditions, .and
annex Overhiser added t€sa;t this vas the intent of the Board o;
Zoning Aijustment to t Ue on cases whare there was a hardship.
Commissioner Keeley indicated the committee had considered Con-
ditional IJso para is for detachedched or above grade garages 'but thinks
we shpuld go the varia tce route to consider specific cases. 1€e
further indicated their intent vms, to create an atmosphere that is
agree4ble to the coamauai.tya and even a gCrod design ends up to be
bad if ,you use up all of the land.
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Chairman Wahl pointed out that the Planning, Com mission isextremely
cpnct rned that there is little grace space: left in apartment develop-
mats. kir. Stillwall felt that probably a better way to approach
this problem w,is to reduce the usable lamia to 15 percent.
Cozmissioner Pollock observedd that of all the apartments vm now
have itt ,tate I!illage we have only one apartment dith undnt ground
parking. Most of the builders igltll satisfy only the winmim re-
quirements. There is always roori for rhe : better builder.
Mr., Renaman, said he felt #-he sLaudards. proposed would not ptoduQ
be.ttei buildings but would drZve developers into other communities,
He. questioned what was the intent of the Planning "I tQm fission - to
limit =apartment development? Cb irmsn Wahl explained thst their
purpose was to got quality apartments ra,th,gr than elimtnata them.
He asked Mr. Hanamin if his, main concern was ecenomi,cs . lLr. Henamatt
ind.lcated it was
Rt. Henamaxt asked what criteria was used to es tallish that no more
than 5 percent of dwelling units in one buildiig can coa,tain 3 or
score, bedrooma . omui ssioner Keeley, explained. they were primarily
concerned about school problems.
AQh Mr, Stilir:ell asked why there is only, one, parking space required
o'r townhouses when pae and one-quarter are required 1pr apartments
to h•e enclosed in a garage. Chaxrzaatx Wahl explained ttxat young,
people tend to double up in apartments requiring additional parking r
and than you canr,ot require a fraction of'a .parking space for a, Iowa
house as you can for an apartment
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kUwaio& Commi"S'szoct _ 1an4ary 26, ':972
The Planzizr Coa`ii.,ssioners all agveed t1a ; had no ob `ectioris to r h Ja
qui,ri g attached aaragea to stagle &Mllings
Zir . 1(enaman and N L .. Still,,,ell bath raised questions regarding re-
quirement of one public elerr ratox a.ad lobby located between each
required suit. tower.. :L,. Stillwell ;telt two elevators, located
togetixer are, xnore eff cie,.tt, r han 41a'vators separated by a. couple
1 hundred feet. Chairman Wahl indicated the: intent was to Fare one
elevator every 250 feet ax building
J:oi=iss.i.oner Keeley c"`4s ied err. St+ill'4lell Vhat h_ thought was an c' dequ lte
dx.s.t;aut,*- from azl.apartmeat entra:ttce to, the elevator. Mr. Stillwell
Adie ed 150 aeet,
The Public Hearing was closed at 10:35 p.m. PUBL10: TXA' tNG-CLO EO
rot:io, made by Goissi,one i'ollock, second by -Co issi ner MOTION' FOR ACTTIO11,
Keel;y for- action at the present mez ting. Motion. passed 5-0.
A-10' Plymouth Villages rGoals , Ob jectives and Criteria A-10
Poll.oviag a dit*mussion of the corments rade at the Public hearing, ACTION
s, twoUQn was :Wade by Commissioner Keeley, second by ComtUs,sioner
Pollock to adopt as amaaded tine Plymouth tillage Coals, Objectives 10TT0N TO UOPT
a:nd Criteria and reco;rzietid adoption by the Village Council.
Motion, passed 5-0.
Mairruaa Wahl made the.e follovaxng statement .an behalf of the entire
Planning Commi.: sioza Velat4ve to the Public bearing on the Goals,,
Ob jec tiives. , and Criteria}
The Pla,ar iqg Cotit.ttission speiit: one year ia, developing these
Goals, Gjb -ctr:ves and Cr ,to'r a, and during that period of
t1me the of rreet:iaxgs that were held was increased
from` twice a month. to every Wedaesday night dor practically
one: entire year. tie ;are disappointed Haat the citizens of STATEME;IT OF
Plymouth were 'scot :nitre interested in the goads of the, PIANNTING CO.u i1SSiO I'
Village as evidenced by the small nutrber of people who were:
here to: ghr:,. tete hope that future Planning Comnissi ons are,
allowed to plan by the:s-, criteria without the cri, icism of
those who, did tatce the tiute to attend this meeting tonight..'t
larxnirg Commission -6- January 26, 197
A-11 Taulk ple Develowrent laDrovement Committee. Resort A-Z1
Foll.%ling a discussion of the desirable, maximun le,l th of an apart-, ACTION
ment struchUre, a nwti,on vas made. by Commissioner , oLh'I seconded
by Comissioner Rolloca, that thn Planning Commission does not MOTION REGAR'011%
vat to gee apartment structures larger th&n 350 feet unless there 1ii\GTI OF Ap 1itT. v
Is; anarchitectural break is the facade.. Hormion passed 5-0. BUIl,MN(v'S.
0-dt6r a discussion of th.e points raised at ;the Public Hearing con- y
i exni'ag the Xultiple De'velopirant Improver:,ent Com-D-ittee's 'recommended
ce, a motion vas made by Commissioner
Pollock, seconded by Chairman % ahl, to rec „*..wend to. the Village
Council that the Multi-ple Development lmement Coauni.ttee's recon
wended ameadmauts to t.i Zoning Ordinance revised he adopted, MOTION TO ADOPT
motion passed ,5--0.,
Notion, to amourra passed all in Ravor.. Meeting adjourned at 12:00 ADJOUMMU ,"'
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