HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 01-05-1972PIALINIM CMDUSSION
VILL.ACI Or, `i)LO QUTH,, MINNESOTA
January .5,, 197
A egu'ar meeting of the l'lannin; _ zxamissian was called to order by Chairman Wahl
at 7x85 p.nt. iu the Council Chambers of the iublic Works Building on, Wednesday,
January 5 1972.
MEMSPS MSENT: Chairman Jim Wahl.,. Commis,-,ioners: Bill Xe.eley, Warrent Chapman,
Jobb Roth and Dale Pollock
VIMBA A: SENT Commissioner Reg Yxosk .0
STAFF PRESENT-. Martin, Overhiser,, Saady Haugen., James Willis and Tran Bauer
O'1~HERS PRESENT Charles Poppler; C. A Martin, Hans Hagen, Kenneth Schi.ebe,
t ex:y Stenqui,sn, Trank Eurg Jr. Roland Krueger, Councilman
Gerald N(ils and others,
A-351: Robert A. Schnuerl.e Condi<tioaal.Use Permit) Aa351
A. Public Hearing was held to consider the petition, of Robert A.
ROBERT A.SCHNUERLE
Schauerl,e for a Conditional Use Permit for a mobile home saxes lot Conditional Vza
at the nor three s t corner of State Highway 55 and Peony Lane. Permit
The Public il^ariag utast opened .at 7,-35 p.m. Charles Poppler, repro- P IBLrs.0 11RARTN
seritin.g the Petitioner, was the on?y individual appearing bP )re
the Plannin Commission on the subject.
Planner Cverh ser reviewed the request and the: previous action taken
by the Zlanning Commission. He explained to theCommissioners that
this was an interim use in that the property was owners by Red Ow
Corpor&tion vho planned to dot,"elop the area within five or seven
years
Chairman Wahl read into the record a letter received :from Mildred OPPONENTS
ctmi:dt, 18415 Highwa,, 55 elated January. 1, 1972 opposing the loca-
ting of a. mobile home sales lot. in Pl.ymcotxQp (Copy of letter marked
EXHIBIT wA on file) w
Commissioner Pollock questioaed whether there would tae direct access QUESTIONS
onto Highway 55 or if this would require another access, Mr.. DISCUSSION
11opplar explained that there is a frontage road and access in
e istaxtce lead ing to tate neighboring -bait shop.
Irk response to Commissioner Roth's questioning, Mr., Poppler indi
ca.ted their piens called for eleven units including the office unit;,
Commissioner Keeley asked if ;Real Ovl had any objections to drainage
from, this, lot onto the -property which they own to the north and
east of this ,proposed site. 'fir. Poppler explained they,did not plan
Planoimg Cowm ssion January 5, 197
to ohange the bevel of the lot significantly in that the parking area
was very levol and that they planned to and around the units. He
coua:ld not see any drainage problems.
Commissioner Roth asked 'what kind of surfacing :.they planned for the
parking lot, Xr., Popplar indicated he assumed it would be asphalt,
Commissioner Keeley indicated there were, two matters that concerned
him; first, he felt t'he frontage: road should go entirely across the
frt txt of the property, and second, that side, yard tequir malits should
be the same as they would be for anybody, else. 13i. Poppler indicatod
the site could be moved :over as they were leasing the entire area
from, ked Octl and that there had been some discission z i,th the owner
of the bait shop regarding paving both of th ' - parldng lots together.
He also indicated he had discussed the extension ,or the frontage road
with the S :ate who told Mm. that because of the propokTt d cloverleaf
at that intersection tlxey felt it would be a waste of money.
Commissioner Roth asked. what kind of sani.taryc 'system was proposed...
Mr. Poppler indicated they would put in.a system acceptable to the
Village which would. be a wall and approved septic fle`l:d.
The Public Hearing wa3 %Aosad at 7;47 p.m. PUBLIC HEARING
u
CLOSED
CoamnisLi oxer Pollock made la motion for action ,it the p;:esent
meeting, s€toad by 4 ommissioaer 'Keeley. Motion passed 5 Q. MOTION ]±ok ACTION
Commissioner Keeley, pointed out that by approving .his ;petition DISCUSSION
they would be placifag their approval, on the sale of a product which
is not allowed within the Village.. Ccommi.ssioner Pollock indicated he
felt this was aceeptalile as theta vert. other products sold within the
Village for which usage was prohibited, such as firearms.
There followed discussion -regarding the general appearance, of most
mobile home lots. Mr, Poppler told the Commissioners the units would
be ori vheels, and they have projected sales of 8 to 12 homes a month
dur :og the peak mon:ta ks of May, ,lune and July.
Commissioner Roth pt.gvosed the idea of approving the aoquest icor 'a
six month probationary period and placi,tzg some con=trols on it as to
Appearance with perioditi,t inspections mada by staff. ';hairman Stahl
pointed out that this vo\uld be impractical because of the amount of
inves trent involved on the past of the .Petitioner.
At this polat Mr. C. Ar Martin, who arrived after the Public Hearing,
had been; closed, was asked if he desired to speak regarding the
subject. Mr kLirtin questioned the access and was told the present
access road leading to the rte ghboring sport shop which he owns would
be used. He indicated he was only concerned about the access as there
is a great decal of traffic on this corner, however,. indicated that he
was present merely to observe and not objact. Mr. Poppler added that
he had talked to the State rej;arding a turning lane, and that if isoth
the State and Village wanted thi it probably couldd be constructed,
Planning .Commission January 5 1972
141oti6n made by Commissioner Keeley, second by Commissioner Chapman, MOTION TO DENTY
to recQmmegd denial, of 0 -to .1onditional Use Permit .for the reason
that it is not a use we need in Plymouth at this time since we
neif her recogaite nor do- not recognize mobile homes in out ordi-
nances. They further pointed out that there is always an aesthetic
problem involved with mobile home lots and that in order to main-
tain a look of neat permanency, the restrictions 'they would have
to place on it would make it prohibitive :to the developer. Com-,
missioner Pollock felt it is a reasonable temporary, land use and that
the conditions could be met lry a developer.
Commissioner Roth expressed concern over other requests tbey might
receive in the future if they approve thiq, petition and if they
could deny others if they approve this one.
Planter Overhiser proposed that if the permit Naas issued for one year
any conditions that were not satisfactory to any member of the Com-
mission could be investigated by the staff and corrected to the
satisfaction of everyone. Commissioner Keeley rioted that; because
of the investment involved he would hate to revoke that parmit after
only one; year and further noted that this is a heavy=-duty operation
whereby units are constantly being moved around, and this would be
very disturbing to the ;.xelghbors.
Commissioner Roth indicated he fejt the Planning Commission should
recommend denial because there are inadequate controls on this type
of operation in tbe. 'pillage.
Motion to recommend denial of the permit passed 4-1 with Commissioner MOTION PASSED
Pollock v:otirig against,
A--li Vida a Street Nu mi and Vumberin stem r ';
This subject has arisen because: of the request by Bans Hagen,
STREET NAMING &
President of Ban-Cou, Inc, to assign numbers for each lot within IUMBEP ING SYSTEM
the Chelsea Woods devetopmAt and address es lots as "M Chelsea
Woods", etc., rather than the standard Village street naming and C'HEI,SEA WOODS
numbertog
Planner Overhiser gave the Commissioners a brief background of the
request of Ban -Con kind the, street naming and numbering system es
tablished:by the Village pre\,iously. He indicated the staff recom-
mendation-vas
ecom-
mandation-vas that they adhere as much as possible to this established
system, recogaiting that Che, --e are problems with affixing a grid -iron
naming and numbering system to a curvilinear project such as Chelsea
Woods but also recognizing that by going against the system and in-
serting
n.-
seri nng foreign names into the system, problems are caused for
emergencyand delivery vehicles
0
Planning Commission January 5, 1972
Commissioner Xealey reminded the Planning C*xmissioa that under the
Security section of the planning, Goals, Objectives and Critoria, it
calls to the attention of the Village officials that they noir have
a hard enough time finding thinp in their own. Village and the number-
ing system should be very definitely adhered to as wall as the street
naming system to augment the finding of people or houses in trouble.
Commissioner Pollock added he felt there must be some basic system for
locating property both for protection of life and property, The
Village has such a system so tho proposal would either be an exception
of an adoption of a. new systef. The present system, even though it is
not perked, does indicate the getieral coordinate location both north
and south and east and west through the numbers and alphabetical names,
and uaLil a system can at least equal the present system in this regard
it is logical to retain. the preso-t-t system. The aesthetic consider-
atioas do not seem to outweigh the practical considerations which were
pointed out by Chief Hawkinson and Chi Bauer.
Hans Hagen appeared on behalf, of Baa -Con and presented their plan to
the Commission. Re pointed out that most home buyers object to living
on a street k-alled 30',- Avenue North, He felt the present system used
in the Village is not only inadequate but inaccurate in that it only
generally locates something. He proposed the new system for Chelsea
Woods because of his concern for safety and cited the confusing matter
of streets which 'run in virtually every direction and the difficulty
in coming upwith a numbering system. This is a community development
within the Village and easily identifiable. This is an era of planned
unit developments, and ho felt the Village should go, all the way on the
logic of planned unit developments.
Commissioner Keeley felt more problems were created with the proposed
type of numbering system than if they coatinued with the old.
Commissioner Pollock felt there is enough flexibility in the present
system to accommodate Chelsea Woods. The Village is less than 1/3
developed, and there will be several Liore planned unit developments
within the Village in the future which will cause confusion.
Chief Fran Bauer recalled that these discussions were held with the
Planning Commission previously in 1,959 and 1960 when he was a member
and. the present system was adopted. He indicated arrangements are
made with surrounding communities for aid in time of emergencies and
that these vehicles are usually directed into the Village by police car.
Commissioner Roth pointed out that lie could only see two areas in Chelsea
Woods where it could become confusing and otherwise everything seemed
to fall into a fairly logical pattern.
I -lotion made by Commissioner Keeley, second by Commissioner Roth, 'to MOTION TO DENY
recommend denial of the request for the reasons of continuity, safety
and access., Motion passed 5-0.,
Planning Commission -5- January 5; 1972
A-360 Village Full Temporary Office Addition G
Planner Overhiser explained. that the Village tans requesting a
A GEVILLAGE. HAT,L TE il'»
Conditional Use Permit to locate a mobile home office unit adjacent OItARY OFFICE ADD'N
to the Village Hail on the west side. This would be the same
location as the mobile unit which was removedin the Spring of Conditional Itse
1970 when the Village offices were expanded and remodeled. Permit
Village Manager James Willis appeared and Cold the .Cozmiissioners
of the extreme space problem., in the Village Ball. Ile indicated
they do not wish to add onto the Hall permanently because they
project that there should be a. new structure within approximately
three gears. They are,, therefore, requesting a Conditional Use
Permit for three years.
Commissioner Feeley questioned whetb*zx the Village hada looked into
rental space. Manager Willis indicated f Pliad blit this was not
economical plus undesirable to separate dupaw:Lments in difserent
facilities. He also added that the unit will. cost less than $5,0010
new and possibly could be sold for one-half that .amount in three
years:
Moti,oit made by Commissioner Keeley, second by Commissioner Roth MOTION TO APPROVE:
to recommend approval of the request subject to review in three
years. Motion pas; Kid 5-0.
A-283' Schiebe's Oakwood' Final Plat A-28-3
Kenneth S. chiebe and Henry Si= enquis t appeared with their Final, Plat SCHIEBE `S OAKWOOD
for Planning Commission approval and the chairman's signature.
Final Plat
Planner Overhiser indicated the only change from the preliminary
plat was a strip of land 30' by approximately 135" which is being
deeded to the Village for street purposes at the southwest corner
of :the property akid contiguous with Kimberly bane.
Motion made by Commissioner Chapman, second by Commissioner Pollock, MOTION TO APPROVE
to approve the Final Plat for signature. Motion passed 5-Q,
A-331 Westfield. -_Vern Donnay Homes Inc. (Preliminary Plat) A-331
The revised Westfield preliminary plat contains 194 lots on WESTFIELD - VERN
approximately 100 acres. Outlot A is proposed for public park DONNAY HOMES, INC.
and walkways which -would link up with the Ponderosa and Fazendira
add ,tion$, Outlot B. would provide street access to the Georgia Preliminary Plat
property. Outlot C will provide street access to the unplatted
area between Seven. Ponds and County Road 24. The average area
Planning. Commission 6- January 5, 1972
per lot is 15,362 square feet, and the open space proposed for public
dedication is also over the c-dinance requirement of 10 percent with
over 13 percent being shown as open space and ponds.
In .response to Commissioner Chapman LS question, it was noted that
the Park Commission had not yet seen this preliminary slat or had
an opportunity to comment on it. This would be done at their meet-
ing ,on January 6, 1972. Mr. Overhiser stated that the Park. Commis
sion had seen the previous plat in which the open space was nearly
identical to the present plat and that they had approved that plan-
It was the consensus of the Commissioners that: they would like 'to
both have the rep.)rt from the Park Commission and sec. the Ponderosa
and, Fazendin plans before considexiag this matter further.
Commissioner Seeley questioned whether :here were any l is in the
proposal which would require any variances on building line set
backs and was advised there were none
Chairman Wahl felt the Planning Commission should go on record
with the Park Commission and it should be conveyed to the Park
Commission that the Planning Commission has some concern regarding
the 20 foot walkways of that length and more specifically the walk-
ways proposed along the east edge of the: property.
Commissioner Pollock expressed concern over the problem of privacy
when, these walkways are developed near single family dwellings.
Motion made by Commissioner Pollock, second by Commissioner Keeley, MOTION TO TABLE'
to table this matter until the 19th,of January when further infor
oration is available, that information to include what we Know about
the green acres of ponderosa, Fazendin and Mapledell and the Park
Commission's .final thoughts on this project. Motion passed 5--0.
Commissioner Chapman recommended the Park Commission take a. look: at
areas in New hope: where they have developed problem areas like this
into one large pond.
Chairman Wahl recommended: to Mr. Burg that sufficient development
work, be done on the ponds to meet tha requirements of the ordinance
both for ponding purposes and aesthetic value,
In response to Commissioner Chapman's ques tion, Commissioner Pollock
noted that if the school does locate at this location they would pro-
vide sufficient open; space for active recreation.
Motion made by Commissioner Pollock, second by Commissioner Chapman, RECOriMRNDATION TO
that the Planning Commission advise the District 284 School Board of SCHOOL DISTRICT 284
their recommendation not to completely surround and form an island o
the Georgia house (that is, the property north and east of the Georgia
house),., Motion, passed 5-0.
Planning; Commission January 5, 1972
A-561 Professional Offices in Residential Districts =
The Village Council at their meeting on December 27, 1971 did OFFICES IN RBSI-
direct, the staff to prepare a proposed ordinance amendment which DENTIAL DISTRICTS
would allow 4ertain types of professional offices, such as medical
doctors, which may be used in residential zones for the Planning
Commission's review. They instructed the Planning Commission to hold
a public hearing at the earliest possible time in January and, imme-
diately refer it to the Council with their recommendations.
Motion made by Commissioner Chapman:, second by Commissioner Pollock, MOTION TO SET
to set a public hearing on the proposed ordinance as drafted by PUBLIC HEARING
Attorney Lefler for the earliest possible date as: directed by the
Village Council.
Chairman Wahl expressed his concern over the traffic generated by
such a conditional use. Commissioner Roth noted that this could
be planned into a. large development such as Chelsea Woods.
Commissioner Pollock felt this would be discriminatory to some
professions and also noted that he felt the present home occupation
procedure does not discriminate if they can.meet the criteria. He
also expressed the feeling that it`would;be discriminatory econom-
ically in that they wouldin tact be subsidizing these, professions
which are: most able to buy land already zoned. These pe,Ae have
the highest incomes
i:ollowing discussion regarding the number of employees proposed in
the amendment, the definition of the word "professional" and whether
or not this would be allowed. in all. "R." zones, a vote was taken on
the motion. Motion defeated 4-1 with Commissioner Pollock voting in `NOTION DEFEATED
favor of the motion and Commissioners Chapman, Keeley, Roth and Wahl
voting; against.
Following further discussion regarding the proposed amendment and
the instructions from the Village Council, a Motion was made by MOTION TO RECONSIDER IChairmanWahl, seconded Uy Com issioner Pollock, to reconsider
their vote. Motion passed 5-0.
A vote was taken an the original motion: to set a public hearing on
the proposed ordinance as drafted by Attorney Leil.er for the earli-
est possible date as directed by the Village Council.. notion 'MOTION PASSED
pas : d 5-0.
Notion by Commissioner Pollock, second by Commissioner Keeley to
skip over items 5a and 51- on the agenda (Election of trice Ch irmaa
and Secretary and Appointwznt of Committees) until the Planning
Commission has had a chance to act on item 5c (Consider directing
staff to prepare propo,.ed neer By -Laws).. Motion passed 5-0.
I
Planning Commission -e- January 5, 1972
Request by Commissioner geeley the ordinacce changes proposed by itheMultipleHousingDevelopmentCoaiminteeofwhichhewasChairmen
be noticed for public hearing v,,, the 26th of January at the same time
as the public hearing on; the Goals, Objectives qnd Criteria.
Commissioner Roth questi.,,ned Commissionar Keeley if they had proposed
any, limitation on the amout-,t of units in one building.. Commissioner
Keeley, explained that the Uniform Building Code considers a building
anything tets4een two fire walls, and it is difficult to set a figure
on this..
It was agreed that there should be some reference made to the control
over private streets in developments.
Co.issioner Pollock told the Commissioners he felt there needed. to
be a discussion and decision made as to what the tillage's general
philosophy regardir,, multiples should be and that this should be the
starting point.
Motion by Chairman Wahl., second by Commissioner Keeley to schedule MOTION TO SCHEDULE:
the ordinance: changes as submittedd by the Multiple Housing Develop PUBLIC°ERRING
ment Committee for public hearing on January 26, 1972. Motion passed
5-0. 1`t was to be noted that all homeowners associations, the
Village Council and Mayor should be notified regarding this hearing.
Director's Report DIRECTORS REPORT
Lake Street Industries will be starting construction in the
Spring,
2. Housing Seminar 1-11-72.
3, As of 12-17-71 the contract with Eel -Mar Builders terminated,
and Fox Meadows 11 is a dead issue.
4. Chelsea Woods 2nd Addition is on the Council agenda for 1;,-17-72
and the Final Plat was shown to the Planning Commission.
Motion, made by Chairman Wahl, second by Commissioner Pollock to
forward a resolution to the Council recommending that in Line
with the Council Resolution No. 71-241 that the staff be directed
to return,any request with substantial, change in a development
project to the Planning Commission, As examples of substantial
changes; any addi,t.oi or deletion of structures, change in access,
change in density, .change in parking spaces and arrangement, changes
in yard areas and distances between structures, any movement of any
structure five feet in any direction. The Planning, Commission will
provide further interpretation if needed. Motion passed 5-0.
RESOLUTION TO COUNCIL
itEUMINC CHANGES IN
DEVELOPMEMr PROJECTS
Planning Commission January 5 1972
After .further discussion it ikTas moved by Comnai;ssioner Pol,locic, PLANNING C011MISSION,
second by Commissioner Chapman, that the Planning Commission review REVIEW OF PI= PLATS
all final Plats against the approved preiimiaary plats before the
Vi
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