HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 09-16-1970Tanning Commission Minutes page 5 September 16) 1970
Mayor Hi,l.de said that when all comprehensive plans axe done we will
iaave two plans for the whole Village, One that pro -'eats what: we have
and the; second _w411 give the engineer the type of plans we want,,
Then maybe you can go bank and _redo the comprehensive plan so that
the point you are, at nov Is a development guide and it is a necessary
step of the overall Village .and it will: get better as it progresses,
He also congratulated the Commission for attendance and said he hoped
this type of attendance would continue.
Engineer Hagen suggested that the storage areas for water should be
shown smaller on the map because they look to urge for the area
which wasr shown, f, lid the map was. made to look out of proportion,
by this large "rea pater. He said the .area was shown as a. lake
and swtd that the sa . .*hing could be .accomplished if the area was
shown: as a small area uad if it showed more green area adjacent to
the eater areas.
Commissioner Neils asked what an acceptable design was in terms of
storm sewer. design. Engineer Hagen st;vted that the Village storm
sewer design was based on a 10 year frequency,
Planner Eergly said that tite drainage areas near the 3nt6rchange will
just have to be put in the plan.. Commissioner Kroskin also felt
that the Guide Plan should have shown more green areas to mare it
known that these areas are of problems. and needed .for ponding.
Mr. Ki.ndseth said that the plan shows. a great lake flooding his
land and ia,all the years he has never seen that great amount of
water on'hIs land or on his neighbors land,
Chairman Egan said that he also felt that this was shown as aA aka
but he told them to :remember that this was just for study and
this can be changed. Chairman. Egan said they were; ;talking about
going to more density or about trying to make more high density in
some areas and leaving more open space.
Mr. . Xhidseth said that the developers think, that patting the number
of units on a rasp indicate what type of development we want and
this tells the people how they con build upon their land. It was
explained that: the only intention of this was to show a rough idea
of how they would like this area laved out.
Chairman, Egan said we should discuss this further and know what
we mean by medium density and high. density. High density as ex--
plained by Planner Bergly wasvery similar to the Sagamore
apartments, one whieb was develop -d to the ultimate density and
he felt that thete etas nothing,wTong with this He explained
miedium density has about 10 units to an acre where high densityhasabout: 26 units to an ae:r--.
Commissioner Neils said that he had a concern for multiple housing,
for it places as ..much in an area as places .on single projects,
ingineer Hagen. asked Aat the alternative was. Engineer Hagen stated
that when. they have a Uigh centralization of apartments this is
where: you have .moxa crimes. Commissioner Neils stated that if you
MINUTES OR A, REGULAR ETIWE, OF
i°kiF, PLA,` NI IDIC 'COMMISSION
PLYMOUTH, iIMESOTA
SEPTEMBU 161 1970
A regular zeating of the Planning Commission was called to order
by Chairman- tgan at 7 (40 p.m, on September 16, 1970,in the Plymouth
Public Works, Building,,
Present: Chairman .Egan, Commissioners Prekker, Pollock) Veils
iroski.n, June, and Rath aad Rngineer Hagen and Planner
Bergl'y
Absent ; Commissioners Cha,palm and Hafner.
The first item of business was a request for an I-1 site plan ,approval RE: SITE
for Memorex. Mfr. Basil Pilonowich explained the intent and he also PLAN APPROVAI
eXpl.ained that the site is Located at Niagara Lane and 28th Street, r=0R MEMORZ-X
Plattner Eergly told the Commission, that the S0` ,acre site had pre-
liminary and final, approval at one time and has been rezoned to l-1
at that Lima. He said it had 'Been nl.a.tted for 9 or 10 industrial
lots X . Pilonowich explained his proposal to the Commission. He
said that what: they are trying to-do xifht now is prepare it for a
grading contract so that they, can Cake bids next month. Chairman
Egan then asked lair, Pi.lonowich if this request for site plan, approval
was on site grading only, ,and Mr. Pi:lonowich ar3w.ered yes to, this
question. lie explained that there would be no utilities until next
spring. Kanner Eergly said that the site plan may c'han.ge in detail
with the :final site Plan to be approved at a Later date. Be .said
that they have a team of architectural firms In California and
Xioneapolis who are doing the stork on. it and at this point: they wish
to have the building locations approved. Chairman. Egan then asked
Planner Bergl.y's opj.zdon. of the: site plan as he felt the. Commission
did not have sufficient time to analyze it in detail, The planner
felt that this would: besimilar in scope to the General. Mills complex.
Commissioner Roth asked haw Much setback there was to the west and
it Baas answered, to be 180 feet to the cul -de --sac. Mr. Filondwieta
expla:i.ned, further to the -Commission that this was not the final plan
and that they will have ,a final layout that will have proper screening.
It vas explained that the matter of setbacks and the loadi
Planning Commission X nutes Page 2 Scptem6ber 1.6 1970
Pollock asked if any thought was given to, keeping the parking more
to the rear: of the building and leaving the front intoarea green
area and mo4c open. 11r. Filonovich explained ithat the intent was to
bring; as Much greenery, to the front of the building as possible.
Planner Ber,gly explained that the topography is quite rolling and
that the parking lots will be at d Ufe'reat elevations screened by
oarthberms and landscaping. Mr. 1~Alonowich said they intend to put
uz119rgound water sprinkler systems in to 'keep the green, area well
Maintained.
Commi0siorer Roth stated that he was more concerned about the 700
r.=ltiple units appraved for the tract to the west. Commissioner
Neils asked someone of the Commission to clarify to him about What
variances have bewn requested and what variances have been granted.
Mairman Egan said that a. ,vari:ance was granted for having a loading
dock facing a residential district and the aetbac._;riances,will be
based on the final pian to be submitted. Mr. ><il000wich said he
could get in touch with the Village when the final site is finished,
Ch:airman, Eagan; explained that this was a site grading :approval on
Phase l and this is about 1/3 of the site. Phase 1 building will
iticldde the associated parking whish goes; with it. Commissioner
Neils then asked bve much material will be preserved in these green
strips. Xr. Filonowich cAid that all the areas not utilized in
Phase 1 will, be preserved for at least the next four or .five years
and maybe more, Planner Bergly explained than the b ilding, is located
in the center of the site and therefore is as far from all abutting
properties as possible.
Commissioner Pollock made a motion to move ,,Vproval of the .site plan MOTION
pertaining to the entire site subject to su')mi:ssion of site plan
including landscaping: and so forth prior to actual ;ranting, of a
building permit. The motion was seconded by Commissioner .June.
Commissioner Neils stated that he was puzzled by the segxaence and
the process this went through beforeit came to tt:e Cf mai sion_. It
was explained that the, Board of Zoning Aejustment is the rine that
heals appeal=s to setback; signs, width of lots, height, etc. and this
Is why, it went: to the board, first and hien to the Planning Conunission.
11., sages the petitioner from coming; bac1c to the Planning Commission.
Commissioner Kroskin then asked the Commission the feeling to the
overall parking program and he explained that, the purpose: of asking
this is, according to the site plan we are r*nsideriag) the bicycle
trail is to go in front of the building. 'Engineer Hagen said that
thare has •been street dedication of an additional 40 feet of
ofva r on the. gest side of Niagara sane and it would be large enough
for the walking trai.:l, with the 40 feet plus the boulevard. Engineor
Hagen explained the ;tact that driveways and roads would have to be
crossed, Commissioner Xroskin asked if this is practical for a
parkway sy,5tem to ,)pexate- this way. Commissioner Pollock explained
that Niagara is an itdustrial road and will have 80 feet for right-
of -way. Commissioner `Neils asked if :this site plan provides for adequate
right-of—,`ay. Engineer Hagen stated that this is a collector road
end would be sufficient 'with this amount of right-of-way. Chairman
Egan asked for theanymorequestionson site plan. The motion was
Carried by an all, in favor vote.
1'lAnniiig Conft ssion Minutes Page. 3 September 16, 1970
The next item of business was the Settion. 12 Public. "Hearing. It was RE o. PUBLIC
explained that the public: hearing was for the purpose of discussion HYING FOR
of the Guide ''Lair from County Road 9 to 49th Avenue North and SECTION 12
County 'Road 418 to ZachaLy Lane. Chairman Egan explained that
Planner Bergly will, give .a presentation of this section by showing
slides. Chairman Egan stated that ve are: aware of the changes that
have taken plane in this. section. Ile said he thinks most development
is waiting for the Guide plan to be finished and for the road structures
to be completed. lie said that Couilty, Road ##9 is on a realignment.
Planner Eergly began his presentation and he explained that the study
area Is .located in. the northeaot corner of ply outh. County load ##18
Is on the; east, County Road #9 on the south and Zachary Lane is on the
west, He explained that the topography of this area is very extreme
and in a very short distance ranges over 100 feet in elevation. The
drainage are, has beeax studied by hydrologie engineers who have de--
vel.oped a plan. for ponding areas which will be used for flood control
of the north leg of tassetts Creek.Some areas ,now are very :tow and
portions Contain waster. The new County Road ##9 will, be about 150
to 200 feet north of the present County, Road #9, He said that there
are oo:Lugle fanai„ly residences, farm residencesand industrial uses:
within tli.e study area. 'In the southwest corner is Zachary Lane School
znz the first two buildings of the Sagamore Apartments complex: and
also Zachary Lane Nursery just nr-rth of County Road #9 at Zachary
Lane., Ile presented a plan of the area which his firm has developed
and lie felt the plan is about what a developer would do. He said
the area in the center was suitable as an open space for 'wa.ter
storage. He said also there will be thoroughfares surrounding the
area. Within the high density areas; you would expect roadway systems
to be developed. privately so as to support its own particular use.
The plan :shows a shopping center to be built north of the new
County Road #9 to serve as a 3 -wile raduus. The shopping center will
provide 35 acnes of commercial facilities and, south of County Road ##9
is the Your Seasons shopping center.. The Village should also expect
some office structures in: this area, These office structures would, be
placednear the interchange so as to prevent very heavy traffic through
this center of the area. There could be a service station north of
49th Avenue which we have rezoned for such use. Single family
residences occupy a small area and it is intended to expand Moth to the
north: and south. They want to expand so as to get large enough until
there is a balance to the neighborhood. Also some townhouses'will be
placed in the area. Some high; rise buildings may be placed is the
area. The medium density areas should expect townhouses and open space.
act;ssio x then began on the subject and Chaima.n Egan asked what
reason a planner or deve.per would have for coming up with a similar
w'Ann' Planner Ba-jjy. stntp:d that if a developer started out from
itch as they die; that, `rte would expect the plan to be very similar,
Miai.rman ;Egan quest::,^ne,d the way the units were placed on the reap
but he stated that tM.s was only a Guide Plan and it was only to give
the people an idea of how it could be developed. Commissioner Neils
said that one area on the snap. showed a shopping area very similar
to Xhollwood Plaza, He asked the. Commission if they were familiar
with the amount of traffic that would come in and out of this area.
P14nning Commission Minutes Mage 4 September 16 1970
Planner ,Bergly, ,stated that he did have the figures, Commissioner
Valls stated also that the distance between the collectors streets
and. CoUXty Road: 09 looks like It might be 250 feet or so. Planner
Bergly said he thinks of this area as one which would be similar
to the Southtown Area. He. said he doesn't Chink the traffic plan
will work without a signal at County Road #9, lle said he thinks
It is a problem we have to solve in design. Commissioner Pollock
stated that the right--of-way should be 4 to 6 lanes, Planner
Bergly said that the highway Department has somewhat developed a
specific traffic need. here.
Chairman Egan then opened up the meeting for discussion of those
in the audience who ;444hed to speak about the :matter, Mr. Harold
Kindseth" was the first to ;speak upon this matter. He saiC he has
talked with most people that live in the area about their teelings
towards these matters,* He stated that the area, is being, pushed in
by a great potential, of traffic and the area hay great pressure on
it. People ;n this area are wondering whether or not trete will be
a continuation of Revere Lane to the south so there will be some
north -south connecting link for the area. He also stated his
feeling in,, regard to the high density areas which are shown on the
upper left of the map. The areas now used as residential should be
onlarged to the east since we have one or two areas planned for
multiple. The residential area is very small and he fiaels we s ould
have more si.nSl,e family detached dwellings. lie also was opposed
to the very large areas of water storage shor . on this neap. He
said that there was very little change in water 1iVel in the past.
Chairman 5gaxi stated that this was just suggested shapes of areas
and that there are some very large land owners involved, He said
that they have a problem in really setting the number of unitson
a comprehensive plan. He stated that this shouli not. be, done on
the adopted plan. Fred Mengel.koch had a comment towards the
feeling of the density of this area. Ile felt that the density was
too high for this ,area and some cons.derarlon should be given to
lower -density. lie felt that they should ,lower the density of the
entire area and he .telt that Revere 'Lane should' be connected. across
County 'toad M He also had a question in. regard to the ponding
areas. He questioned the water going out through the interchange
area. Engineer Hagen explained the matter further to Mira. Planner
Bergly stated the collector streets patterns are trying to skirt the
area so they don't haire the pattern throughout ;Che neighborhood, The
purpose: of this is to keep traffic where it can be handled,
Commissioner Rath askel if Mr.; Bergly felt that open;.space would
be adequate protection fe z; the si:ngle family, He said he is thinking
only of the fact that there are not enough single family areas in
this plAn, Planner Bergly said the other point is that we have
designed the uses by Land fors mainly, Engineer Hagen said that
there is no possi,bl e way we could not have a pond in the area. He
feels that, that is the, reason now why we should develop what we n, -ed
right now before popple will be unfairly discrimiginated against.
commissioner Neils said that a fair amount of land forms are included
byGuide Plan and said that if circumstances are as Engineer "llagen
stated that ire shoVld show this on our Guide Plan. Chairman Egan
stated that there must be more storage so that we don't flood the
ixttexchauge.
w
Fagc 2
answered that tax(, change was tori sudden last time when this was
being requested, and tho people and the Gonnissaon needed some
tire to consider the revised -request. That is the reason the
request for R-2 was denied at the last meting of the Planning
Com ssion on July 15°) 1970.
mnissioner June moved, seconded. by Commissioner Neils, to WTIM
recommend approval of the R-2 zoning and variance as stated
the recommendation by planner Ber ly in his July 15th
report. The matron was -carried unax ibzionsly..
Ilia next iteia of business was a public hearing on petition of Rh Kermeth V.
Kenneth Schiebe to change: the zoning from R-0 Open Residential Saidbe RezoningDistricttoD-4 General. Business District, R,-4 Mi tiple Family
Residence District mid R-3 IJultiple Family Residence Distract
town house) for property located generally at the Southeast
comer of State Highway 101 and County Road 6.
The publ'.c hearing was opened at 8:20 para. anct the legal notice
gas read, Planner Bergly explained that the site was to include
apartments with density 16 to lg per a.cr<- , town houses with densttj
to 10 per acre, and a General Business District, Ile state:
that the ,R-4 has been: a kind of "catch-all" district for a variety
of uses existing at the t:jne the ordinance was ,adopted as: we11,
as for small business and other operations.
Chairman Egan then asked £or those to speak 1.n favor of the
Tom Dougherty Mfr. Schiebe, proposal. representing introduced
Mr. Henry Stenquist,, the architect, to explain the plan to
the Commission and audiance. Mr. Stenquist stated that tins
scheme, was closely related to scherive "C". Ile stated that they
have proposed.7 acres instead of 5 acres because it would be pre-
erred that access to the: site be as far away from the inter-
section .as possible. Wo access bunts fxom Highway 1.01 are
coed. 1.. 6001 :from the intersection of County, ,Rand 6
2. at the extreme south point of the property to
act as a buffer as well as access,
1t was stated that the R-4 multiple family area would be 13.9
acres and w-1.11 have five 39 unit buildings for 1.95 units of
apartments. The R-3 is 3.0 acres and proposes 32 town house
units which will be g and s" bedroom units. Uie apartment
will have an enclosed garage for each unit and the tolm hat -Uses
will have a, 2 car garage for each unit.
They will Provide Primary recreation areas as well as secondary
areas within the courtyards cr ated by buil,din,g groupings., fir.
Stenguist; stated that the method of bUftering these units is
by a fairly heavy planting of trees along the south property
line, Ile showed a. map showing roughly how this would be clone,
Men asked hoi4 the serer and water lines will run., he stated
that the natural drainage of 'Che property is from the south to
the north and they would have to work with the Village engineer
as to where they wonld like to bring the surface 'water.
71
PlanAng Commission Hinutes Wage 6 aeptembe 16 1970
dexelop this into big complex arenas that this may become something
that the Village oannot control, Chairman Egan said that this
must be a concern- of the Commission..
Chairman Egan stated that he felt that 26 units per acre was not
very high for high density ?.and. Commissioner Prekker said that
he felt that this was enough units in that partic6lar area and
when the time comes they could stretch it out to mora if they feel
it was needed. Planner Bergly stated that he ;feels .same: areas
are acceptable for high density and tli y comply with the. ordinance.
One such is the Fox Meadows Apartments. Commissioner Roth felt
that 26 units to an acre is too many auld that 16 'units are enough,
Commissioner .lune feels that the housing; industry is changing very
rapidly anti we must nhange our ordinance on building because we
are, going to ei:nd a different type, of housing;.
Commissioner Pollock felt that the land east of Zachary Lane and
between, neer and old County Road' #9 should be zoned to some type:
of .8-1, andd should be zoned this and we should be 'very fussy about
what we will let them put in this area. He .felit some kind of
limited business should be in this area and also something that will
be attractive to the, school
i
Chairman Lagan said he would like to ,see this plan approved tonight,
and the motion should: include the chatzges we have discussed and
these changes should be put into the motion. Commissioner Pollock
suggested that we hold it off until the next meeting of the Planning
Commissi.on.which is October 7th so that we can have time to discuss
the material, and digest what was mentioned tonight,
Commissioner Neils made a motion to hold this over to a later meeting MOTION
and it: should come up again at the October 7th meeting which was
seconded by Commissioner Prekker. Also at the next meeting they
will -discuss the drainage and ponding ureas, and the Planner should
have some sort of review for the Commission. All were in favor of
the motion. The motion was carried,
The next item of ',usiness was a conditional use permit for site RE SITE
plan approval for Paul's 'Woodcraft; for the expansioz,, of thein PLAN AP -
building located 'between Fernbrook Lane and Interstate 1#494 and PROVAL FOR
south of Ilighway #55. PAUL'S
WOODCRAFT
Planner tergly stated that since the last meeting that they have
decided to add on to the building. Ile said that this will be'
the 7th construction in the 8th year. He said that they ;are ;just
completing Che square ofthe building and extending it to: the
south, building line. They are adding 8 employees to the employ-
m+ent and that they will add only parkiug spaces: that are needed.
Commissioner Neils asked if the number of parking spaces complies
with the ordinance to which the: answer was yes. Commissioner
June asked if the parking was, im accordance to the need or to the
size of tho building.. Planner Bexgly said he was not sure, but it,
dial comply to one or the other. Planner Ber,gly said ;the, applicant
has used his property to its fullest. Commissioner Neils stated
that he felt no conditions need to be set up with this request
Planning Commission Minutes rage 7 September 16 1970
Planner Bergly stated that now the road is being torn up and
thare is not mtkch he can do when the road is like it is.. He
said that the applicant had put parking sipt. up alrer dy in;
compliance with the Last permit,
Coma ssioner Neils moved approval of this request which was MOTION
seconded by Commissioner Pollock. All were' .itx favor of the
motin. The motion was carried.
The next item of business was to dismiss the rezoning of Seven RE; REZQN-
Ponds to R-1 and all other developed residential platted. ING FOR
areas Aich still carr' an 11-0 designation, SEVEN PONDS
AREA (DATE)
Commissioner Neils moved that a notice of public hearing be
published in the paper and the, Commission be prepared for this MOTION'
public hearing on October 21. The motion was seconded by
Commissioner Prekker. ,All were in favor of the motion. The
motion was carried.
The next item of business was the old business of the Kennedy RE; KENNEDY
and Boyer rezoning, They had a, petition signed by the people AND BOYER
who opposed rezoning at the July 15 Meeting of the Planning RLZONING
Commission stating a difference of opinion,» Fie said he had
talked with each person and they all cftaviged their minds. He
showed .the petition to the .CoTamission and uow -asked for re--'
considerati
I-e.nning Commission 14inutes Page S September16, 1970
Boas seconded by Commiasioeer Juae.. All were in favor of the motioo,.
The motion as carried.
The %riext item of business was the scheduling of Robbinsdaie School.
District .on; October 7th to discuss the proposed Junior IU h Site.
Commiss?oner Prekker moved that the meeting be adjouzaed which was
seconded by Commissioner Kroskin. All vere infavvor of the motion.;
The meeting was adjourned 'at 12;010 a.m.