HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 11-14-1994 SpecialMINUTES
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
NOVEMBER 14, 1994
A special meeting of the Plymouth City Council was called to order by Mayor Tierney
at 6:30 p.m. in the Conference Room of the City Center, 3400 Plymouth Blvd., on
November 14, 1994.
PRESENT: Mayor Tierney; Councihnembers Anderson, Filson, Granath.
Councihnembers Helliwell and Lymangood arrived at 7:30 p.m.
ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: City Manager Johnson, Assistant Manager Lueckert, Park
Director Blank, Public Works Director Moore, Community Development Director
Hurlburt, and City Clerk Ahrens.
ITEM A LEGAL SERVICES
The City Council interviewed the firm of Doherty, Rumble, and Butler for
general and prosecution legal services.
Councihnembers Helliwell and Lymangood arrived at 7:30 p.m.
ITEM B DISCUSSION OF "THE PONDS AT BASS CREEK" DEVELOPMENT
Park Director Blank reported on the status of negotiations for possible
acquisition of additional property at "The Ponds at Bass Creek" development.
He said that staff first explored the possibility of the City buying property on a
lot by lot basis. Daniel Hunt presented a proposal whereby the City could
purchase property at the price of $65,000 per lot. There are 25 lots lying the
area south of 55th Avenue. Staff next explored the possibility of the City
buying property as raw land without any improvements being made by Daniel
Development. Mr. Hunt presented a proposal for the City to acquire Outlots C
and B at a net cost of $1,500,000, or $77,679 per acre.
Director Blank provided several alternatives for consideration by the Council:
1) Determine that the cost for this property exceeds the benefit that would be
gained and discontinue negotiations for acquisition at this time; 2) Investigate
with Mr. Hunt the possibility of his corporation donating property as a tax
write-off; or 3) Agree to the terms proposed by Mr. Hunt and direct staff to
prepare funding alternatives.
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November 14, 1994
Page 2
He stated that the report of the Open Space Committee will be provided to the
City Council on November 21. The report may include a recommendation to
allocate some dollars for additional acquisition on this site, although there is
currently only $250,000 designated in the Capital Improvement Program for
acquisition of sites City-wide. Another option would be a public bond
referendum for open space acquisition dollars.
Director Blank explained that $290,900 has been spent to obtain the 36 acres of
parkland already acquired from this development through cash purchase and
park dedication.
Councilmember Anderson asked how the 36 acres already acquired for parkland
compares to other parks in the City.
Director Blank responded that this is the largest park in the area. The next
largest park in the area is half the size at 18 acres. He presented a map
depicting the existing park areas in the northeast quadrant of the City, and noted
that there is more open space in this quadrant of the City than in any other area.
He said that the City may have stopped acquiring property for this park site at
14 acres, but continued acquisition because of the three major ponds on the site.
Mayor Tierney asked if the neighborhood has proposed acquisition of additional
property through a public-private purchase.
No one was aware that any efforts toward private purchase have been made.
Councilmember Helliwell asked about wetland mitigation for this development.
Director Hurlburt explained that the developer is doing a 2:1 mitigation,
although only a 1:1 mitigation was required at the time of plat approval.
Councilmember Lymangood noted that about 15 of the acres already acquired is
dry area and that is considered large for a neighborhood park.
Director Blank stated that all of other neighborhood parks in the City are about
7 to 8 acres.
In response to a question from Councilmember Lymangood, Director Blank
stated that the option of accepting land as a tax write-off from the developer has
not been fully explored, but it is likely that the maximum allowable donation
amount would be very low.
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November 14, 1994
Page 3
Councilmember Helliwell stated that Daniel Hunt indicated to the Council
during consideration of the preliminary plat that he would support preservation
efforts for the site.
Director Blank said that at that Council meeting, Mr. Hunt indicated he was
willing to sell the property but did not specify a price. After the preliminary
plat approval was granted, the costs increased.
Director Blank clarified that Mr. Hunt has indicated that the City can purchase
any number of lots or acreage at the stated price, as long as there is no
development expense incurred.
Mayor Tierney stated it is difficult for the Council to justify acquisition of more
property in this area at the proposed price.
Councilmember Edson agreed and stated that the 36 acres were already acquired
at about $8,000 per acre. Mr. Hunt has indicated that additional acres could be
purchased at the cost of $77,000 per acre.
Mayor Tierney stated that the issue could be referred to the Open Space
Committee for a specific recommendation.
Councilmember Lymangood stated the Open Space Committee needs direction
from the Council. The Committee has ranked this site as the fourth highest
ranking site in the City for preservation of open space. He noted that he
previously voted against the preliminary plat approval. Unfortunately, the
approval of the preliminary plat has driven the acquisition price higher. He
would not be supportive of spending anything greater than $40,000 to $50,000
per acre for the property. If the tax write-off donation does not reduce the price
to that level, it probably is not worth further pursuing acquisition.
Councilmember Helliwell stated she would support pursuing the tax write-off
donation option with the developer.
Councilmember Anderson stated that he doesn't believe the tax benefit will be
sufficient to reduce the land price to an acceptable level. He said that there are
many open spaces that have been reviewed by the Committee, and the Council
must balance the needs of the entire City. He does not want to increase taxes to
fund acquisition costs for this site.
Councilmember Edson stated that the economics of acquiring this land for open
space do not appear to be feasible. He stated that Ward 4 is fortunate to have a
disproportionate amount of existing open space, and he will consider the
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November 14, 1994
Page 4
recommendation of the Open Space Committee on which parcels should be
acquired. Councihnember Edson said he would like to be able to acquire this
open space because it is in his ward, but the Council must represent the entire
City and prudently spend the citizens' money. The proposed acquisition costs
are too high.
Councilmember Granath stated he supports discontinuing negotiations. The
price is too high.
ITEM C NORTHWEST PLYMOUTH INFRASTRUCTURE NEEDS
The City Council considered the need for and the alignment of Schmidt Lake
Road between Vicksburg Lane and Peony Lane.
Public Works Director Moore introduced representatives from the City's traffic
consultant - Strgar Roscoe Fausch. He said that the City previously received
the preliminary report on the Schmidt Lake Road alignment, along with the
results of several traffic studies that were done. He said that one traffic study,
which was included in the Transporation Plan, used a traffic projection for
Schmidt Lake Road of 5,000 to 6,000 vehicles per day in 2010 with
development inside of the MUSA. The traffic projection as part of the Schmidt
Lake Road alignment study was 10,000 vehicles per day. That count continued
to assume that all land outside of the MUSA (6 sq. miles) would only be
developed in accordance with its current land use which is rural density.
He said that staff has now factored in a projected urban development density in
the northwest corner of Plymouth. The estimated traffic for Schmidt Lake Road
with ultimate urban development of the northwest area is 17,000 to 21,000
vehicles per day. Without a roadway serving this function, these trips would
either be on the existing road system or on other residential streets constructed
with development.
Director Moore explained the various alternatives for the Schmidt Lake Road
alignment. The northerly alignment goes north of the railroad and the southerly
alignment remains south of the railroad. He recommended that the northerly
alignment is the best long-term alignment for the City. At the Peony Lane end,
the northerly alignment provides better spacing of roads between County Road
47 and Highway 55. The southerly route would crowd Highway 55, Old
Rockford Road, and Schmidt Lake Road into a space of about 2/3 mile and
leave no minor arterial road for the future in the 1.5 miles between the railroad
tracks and County Road 47.
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November 14, 1994
Page 5
The northerly route is also significantly better for the new high school and
playfield, and it would align with the high school entrance. The northerly route
will not need to be developed quite as fast, and it provides for a second overpass
for the future northwest Plymouth residents to use to access the rest of the City.
The northerly route eliminates any major impact on Hollydale Golf Course.
He said that the northerly route is estimated at a cost of $3,400,000, compared
with $1,700,000 for the southerly alignment. About half of that cost is the
overpass construction for grade separation.
City Manager Johnson noted that public safety personnel also see some
advantages of the overpass. He stated that the roadway is proposed to go along
the edge of the golf course. The developer, Mr. Bloom, has proposed that the
roadway be moved to the north through a wetland to avoid impact on the golf
course.
Councilmember Anderson stated he would like to know the type of wetlands
that would be impacted by this realignment to avoid the golf course. He also
would like additional information on the traffic projections.
Public Works Director Moore stated the traffic projections have not been done
to include the future urbanization of northwest Plymouth because traffic
projections are done using the existing Land Use Guide Plan.
Councilmember Anderson said it is important to get an estimate of the traffic
counts with urbanization of northwest Plymouth. County Road 9 currently
shows 23,000 vehicles per day without urbanization.
Mayor Tierney stated that two overpasses for grade separation from the railroad
would be a benefit for this area.
Councilmember Lymangood questioned whether the Council is designating a
preferred alignment too quickly. He said the choice of alignment should be one
of the last decisions, and until last week, the impact of urbanization of
northwest Plymouth was not included in the traffic projections. The land use
for northwest Plymouth should first be determined, and then the transportation
needs in the area. When these are determined, the Council can select an
alignment.
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November 14, 1994
Page 6
Director Hurlburt stated that the City's adopted plan shows the Schmidt Lake
Road alignment to the south of the railroad. If that is the selected alignment,
right-of-way will need to be obtained from the proposed Lundgren development.
If the northerly alignment is selected, the Guide Plan needs to be amended to
change the alignment.
Public Works Director Moore explained that the City's Transportation Plan was
initially done in 1972, and updated in 1980 and 1989. The Plan considers the
function of roadway corridors, but does not get into details of exact alignment
or street widths.
Councilmember Anderson noted that County Road 47 and Schmidt Lake Road
are the only remaining east -west through streets to be completed. The Council
needs to do some land use planning before the roadways are designed,
particularly given the increase in traffic projections due to the inclusion of
northwest Plymouth urban development. He expressed concern on the projected
traffic volumes on Schmidt Lake Road because there are areas where homes are
built very close to the roadway.
Director Moore stated that the traffic projections indicate there will be 23,000
average daily trips on Schmidt Lake Road east of I-494 and 14,000 west of
I-494. However, that was projected with the lower densities for northwest
Plymouth. He recommended that with ultimate development and traffic
volumes, there is a need for a four -lane roadway.
Councihnember Edson stated that he believed it important on the County Road 9
project that grading occur before development of abutting lots so that
homebuyers were aware of the roadway location. He believes this should also
apply to the Schmidt lake Road extension. There are two developments under
review in this area, one of which has an alignment of Schmidt Lake Road going
through. He stated that the Council needs to decide on an alignment before
approving affected developments. He said that the decision on the alignment
probably will not impact the traffic volumes on Schmidt Lake Road, and he
believes that the alignment issue can be decided now irrespective of how
northwest Plymouth develops. The Council then needs to consider the effect of
the future proposed developments and development of land outside of the
MUSA on the roadway. He believes that those issues will determine whether
Schmidt Lake Road needs to be a two-lane or four -lane roadway.
After discussion, the Council indicated that the proposed Lundgren
development, Soo Line West, could be considered by the Council at any time
and there is no need to delay it until the alignment is determined.
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November 14, 1994
Page 7
Councilmember Lymangood said that the Council's first decision should be
whether Schmidt Lake Road should be extended west of Vicksburg Lane.
Director Moore stated the City's adopted plan contains this segment of Schmidt
Lake Road.
Director Hurlburt added that the current plats under consideration do not contain
enough right-of-way for a four -lane roadway and buffer area.
Councilmember Helliwell expressed concern that Schmidt Lake Road is
proposed as a four -lane when it narrows to two lanes to underpass I-494.
Director Moore explained that the underpass cannot be widened until the
freeway is reconstructed.
The Council discussed the need for deed covenants on adjacent developments
notifying future property owners of the proposed roadway.
Councilmember Edson asked if Schmidt Lake Road would be necessary to serve
the Soo Line Fast proposed development.
Director Hurlburt responded that the current proposed plan for Soo Line East
includes Schmidt Lake Road. However, the development has access to Peony
Lane, Rockford Road, and Holly Lane.
Councilmember Edson stated that the development of Soo Line East and Soo
Line West will not require expansion of Schmidt Lake Road to four lanes. The
future development further to the north and west and the new high school will
determine the need for a four lane roadway.
Director Moore stated the Schmidt Lake Road northerly alignment is more
centered and a more direct route to the high school entrance.
Councilmember Lymangood expressed disappointment that the Council only
learned two weeks ago about the revised traffic study indicating that Schmidt
Lake Road is projected to have over 20,000 vehicles per day. That significantly
impacts the Council's decisions in the future.
Mr. Robinson, the City's traffic consulting engineer, said the decision to leave
the extreme northwest area of the City as rural density and to factor that
information in the traffic projections was deliberate. He said there was no way
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November 14, 1994
Page 8
the City could request a guiding change in this area outside of the MUSA in
1989; therefore, the traffic projections reflect the approved rural guiding.
He said that given the rural density in the northwest area, the traffic projections
are still 7,000 to 10,000 vehicles per day on Schmidt Lake Road. Whenever
daily traffic exceeds 8,000 vehicles, that is an indication to go to a four -lane
roadway. The four -lane roadway could still accommodate 20,000+ vehicles
per day as now projected. He said the primary purpose of the Transportation
Plan is to identify connections and traffic patterns - not alignments, number of
lanes, and specific planning.
The consulting engineers explained the history and elements considered in
development of the City's Transportation Plan. They said that since 1980, the
City's Transportation Plan is virtually complete. One objective of the Plan is to
let residents know where the streets will be and to reserve sufficient rigbt-of-
way for construction.
Manager Johnson said that the land use planning for northwest Plymouth should
have been done three to five years ago. The City is now years ahead of
development, if the northerly Schmidt Lake Road alignment is selected.
The City Council generally agreed that the current assumption should be for the
northerly alignment of Schmidt Lake Road as a four -lane roadway.
Councilmembers Anderson and Edson said that the Council must balance the
good of the entire City, but expressed concerns about homes abutting Schmidt
Lake Road east of Vicksburg Lane where there is no berm.
Director Moore said that the Council previously moved the alignment to provide
a greater buffer to the roadway. Berming was done near Vicksburg Lane, but it
was not done near Orchid Lane or Minnesota Lane.
Councilmember Anderson said the Council is currently considering only the
extension of Schmidt Lake Road to Vicksburg. Any extension westerly of
Vicksburg Lane would be considered in the future.
Councilmember Edson said it is important to set aside adequate right-of-way for
a four -lane roadway whether or not it is constructed in the future.
Councilmember Helliwell stated she is not concerned whether it is a two or
four -lane design, as long as the northerly alignment is selected.
No Councilmembers indicated a preference for the southerly alignment.
City Council Minutes
November 14, 1994
Page 9
In response to a question, Public Works Director Moore said that the northerly
alignment will impact several properties and require the removal of at least one
home. He said that the alignment will not be finalized until the final plans are
accepted and the Council orders it constructed, or until a development proposal
is approved.
The Council requested that Director Moore investigate the northerly alignment
to avoid homes and structures if at all possible. They also directed staff to
recommend a motion at the next regular meeting directing the Planning
Commission to conduct a public hearing on a proposed amendment to the
Comprehensive Plan showing the approximate northerly alignment.
Councihnember Lymangood expressed concern that the City only recently
learned of the updated traffic projections. He asked if this consulting engineer
did previous traffic studies for the City. He also asked when the selection of
consultants would come to the Council for review.
Director Moore stated Strgar-Roscoe-Fausch previously did the 1990
Transportation Plan, but not the 1980 Plan. The Schmidt Lake Road alignment
study was done in mid 1993. He said that during the first quarter of 1995, all
engineering consultants will be reviewed by the Council.
Councihnember Lymangood stated that the consultant had indicated that the
1990 Plan took into account traffic volumes in surrounding communities. He
asked if those volumes are based on rural or full urban development.
Mr. Robinson said the Met Council estimates and approved land uses are used
to project traffic volumes to avoid conflicts with the Met Council forecasting.
Therefore, the traffic projections assume rural densities outside of the MUSA.
Councihnember Lymangood noted that the Council still has no traffic
projections assuming full urban development of the surrounding area including
Maple Grove, Corcoran, and Medina.
Director Hurlburt stated that the projections will not be available until the Land
Use Guide Plan is amended for the surrounding areas.
Manager Johnson said that general assumptions and traffic projections could be
done for the entire area.
City Council Minutes
November 14, 1994
Page 10
ITEM D ELM CREEK INTERCEPTOR
Community Development Director Hurlburt explained the status of the Elm
Creek Interceptor project before the Met Council. The Met Council will decide
in the next few weeks whether to start the design process. She said that Medina
is currently served through the Plymouth system, but by 2000, Plymouth will
need the capacity and Medina will have to find it elsewhere. The City of Maple
Grove is in eminent need of sewer capacity to serve any additional housing.
The estimated construction cost of the Elm Creek Interceptor project is $45
million, and there are several alternatives under consideration. She explained
the Met Council schedule for receiving public comment on whether to proceed
with the design phase. Alternative A is the Met Council staff recommendation
which suggests moving ahead with design of the project, contingent on
Plymouth, Brooklyn Park, Maple Grove, and Medina agreeing to a cluster
planning process. The process is not well-defined, but would provide for the
cities to agree to development of target densities and development staging.
Then the cities would negotiate a final agreement on housing, environmental
standards, and transportation standards.
Councihnember Lymangood requested that the names/phone numbers of Met
Council representatives be provided to the Council.
Manager Johnson explained that future development of Plymouth may not be
reliant on construction of the Elm Creek Interceptor. A determination needs to
be made as to whether the Waterford lift station is sufficient to serve all of
Plymouth. He noted that lift stations would be needed in the northwest area to
be developed, but perhaps this would be another option to the alternatives under
consideration by the Met Council.
ITEM E CITY ATTORNEY INTERVIEWS
The Council discussed the interviews held for legal services.
Manager Johnson stated that he intends to recommend that the City retain Roger
Knutson and the firm of Campbell, Knutson, Scott, and Fuchs for legal services
if the Council can change its regular meetings to Tuesday evenings. He
believes that Mr. Knutson can best meet the City's needs in the future.
However, Mr. Knutson has a conflict on Monday evenings. He noted that
changing to a Tuesday meeting schedule would result in less holiday conflicts as
well.
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November 14, 1994
Page 11
Councilmembers Anderson and Granath indicated they would assist with
negotiations with the new firm.
Manager Johnson said that no change is currently recommended for bond
counsel.
Councilmember Edson stated he has concerns with a change to the Campbell
firm relating to the ability of the firm to serve Plymouth given the size of the
firm and the size of their other clients.
Councilmember Granath said he feels a change is needed in the civil legal area.
He would be supportive of retaining Best and Flanagan for prosecution services.
Councilmember Helliwell stated she supports the appointment of the Campbell
firm because they are strong on environment and development related issues.
Councilmember Lymangood stated the Council's primary objective is retaining
the best possible legal representation for the City - council meeting scheduling is
secondary. He believes a change is needed in the current civil representation,
but has no objection to retaining Best and Flanagan for prosecution services.
Councilmember Anderson agreed, and suggested that staff contact Best and
Flanagan once again to determine if they would consider providing only
prosecution service.
Mayor Tierney agreed that the prosecution should remain with Best and
Flanagan.
The meeting was adjourned at 10:28 p.m.
ILL I
City Clerk