HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 09-26-1994 SpecialMINUTES
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
SEPTEMBER 26, 1994
A special meeting of the Plymouth City Council was called to order by Mayor Tierney
at 7:10 p.m. in the Public Safety Conference Room, 3400 Plymouth Blvd., on
September 26, 1994.
PRESENT: Mayor Tierney; Councilmembers Anderson, Edson, Granath, Helliwell,
Lymangood, and Morrison.
ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: City Manager Johnson, Assistant City Manager Lueckert, Public
Works Director Moore, Community Development Director Hurlburt, Planning
Supervisor Senness, City Attorney Barnard, and Administration Senior Clerk/Typist
Kurt Hoffman.
ALSO PRESENT: Planning Commission Chairperson Michael Stulberg; Planning
Commission Members: Christian A. Preus, Linda Oja, Virginia Black, Allen Ribbe,
Barb Stimson, and Ed Albro. Scott Krych represented the consulting firm of Peterson
Environmentalists. John Shardlow represented the consulting firm of Dahlgren,
Shardlow & Uban.
ITEM A JOINT MEETING WITH PLANNING COMMISSION ON
WETLANDS ORDINANCE
Mayor Tierney welcomed the public and announced that public comment would
be limited since this is a study session for discussion between the City Council
and Planning Commission on the proposed wetlands ordinance.
Planning Supervisor Senness described the process for development of the
proposed ordinance and stated that a draft of the ordinance will be provided to
the Council at the first regular November meeting, with public hearings to
follow.
John Shardlow, Dahlgren, Shardlow, and Uban, explained the status of the
Plymouth wetlands inventory and the four wetlands classifications: low,
medium, high, and exceptional. He said that thus far 3 wetlands have been
classified as low, 107 as medium, 21 as high, and 7 as exceptional. Mr.
Shardlow stated the ordinance objectives are based on requirements in
Minnesota statutes, as well as the thoughts and values of the local community.
He defined "setbacks" and "buffers".
Planning Commission Chairperson Stulberg requested a discussion on vision and
goals of the ordinance. He asked if there should there be four grades of
wetlands and said there is a question of what to do about existing development.
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September 26, 1994
Page 2
He asked what the City may be willing to spend or forego in order to develop a
significant wetlands protection ordinance. For example, affordable housing
may be more difficult to accomplish. He asked for direction from the Council
on whether the Planning Commission is moving in the right direction with
development of an ordinance.
Chairperson Stulberg said the Planning Commission is moving toward
development of an ordinance where water quality is the key element, and habitat
may not result as the most important goal. Some additional areas will be
protected as water quality is maintained, but there may not be as much buffer
space as some citizens want.
Mr. Shardlow addressed efforts to quantify NURP ponds and stated that they
are reviewing research on what size buffers will give a balance to both water
quality and habitat.
Chairperson Stulberg said the Planning Commission looked at different buffer
strip widths for setbacks, and discussion was held on how much land would be
unavailable for development in order to gain buffer strips.
Councihnember Helliwell expressed concern that diminished buffers would
diminish the songbird population. She said water quality can be attained but is
not always attractive and cited Schmidt Lake Road as an example. She said that
more emphasis needs to be given to appearance. She would support an
emphasis on habitat, and buffers are vital to this.
Planning Commissioner Black explained that the type of buffer is part of the
classification system. Wetlands classified as high or exceptional would require
more natural buffers. She said it relates to the issue of how many wetland
classifications should be in the ordinance.
Planning Commissioner Ribbe said that a 50 -foot buffer can be very significant
to improving water quality; but would do little for wildlife. He said it is a
question of how large a buffer can be required without huge costs.
Councilmember Anderson said that habitat protection would mean increased
costs and ultimately increased taxes. He supports wildlife, but believes water
quality should remain the primary goal of the ordinance.
Councilmember Granath stated that the ordinance should protect water quality
while saving as much habitat as possible. He said that future financial problems
will be created if the ecosystem is not protected.
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September 26, 1994
Page 3
Councihnembers Lymangood and Edson agreed that the principal goal of the
ordinance should be improvement of water quality.
Councilmember Edson supported the proposed wetlands classifications. He
believes that it is important not to go beyond the State classifications and
standards. He said that the Shoreline Management Act applies to lakes, and the
wetlands ordinance should further address that area. The ordinance shouldn't
take away existing lake access, but should balance the future development of
property with existing site conditions.
Councilmember Granath said that the Council can adapt the wetlands ordinance
to allow for existing development.
Councilmembers supported the four wetland classifications. Councilmember
Lymangood said that obtaining legal advice on the proposed ordinance should
be the next step.
Mayor Tierney said the ordinance will give a greater understanding of water
quality issues, and developers will be able to enhance wetlands and create better
aesthetics in their developments.
Attorney Barnard said that grandfathering situations are possible. Limitations
can be established through an ordinance; however, existing situations must be
considered. He said that an easy legal test of the ordinance is not possible and
this type of legal issue is becoming more complicated. The courts require more
detailed situations to satisfy or defend any ordinance. Weight should be given
to varied interests such as type of properties, state interests, use of properties,
and people whose earnings are tied to use of land.
Planning Commission Chair Stulberg said that developers may see a
diminishment of their opportunities to develop property as a result of the
ordinance, and land in undeveloped areas may take on a greater burden when
other areas are developed. He asked if that should that be part of the
consideration in establishing the ordinance.
Councilmember Lymangood said the guidance has been not to create a
retroactive ordinance, but to grandfather existing conditions into a new
ordinance. He said that the question of whether a reasonable use of the land still
exists is a legitimate test.
Councilmember Granath stated that law and policy are the two elements in the
ordinance. He said the City Attorney has advised based on precedence in the
metro area, as well as state and federal levels. He believes there is a low risk of
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September 26, 1994
Page 4
litigation, and a high chance of success in preservation efforts if the Council
adopts the ordinance.
Councilmember Edson said that the cost of lots may increase because there
would be fewer, but larger, lots to meet the ordinance requirements. That could
bring some criticism for failure to provide more affordable housing.
Councilmember Anderson supported moving ahead in order to have the
ordinance in place prior to 1995 construction.
Councilmember Lymangood asked what effect ordinances with an emphasis on
buffers have in existing communities like Chanhassen. If legitimacy of buffer
size was an issue, it should have been in the ordinance. Councilmember
Lymangood said he has had discussions with City of Chanhassen officials about
their wetland ordinance. They have made one amendment to their ordinance
since it was adopted and have had no threats of lawsuits. He said that the
Plymouth ordinance would address individual property owners as well as
developers, as discussed in an opinion received from the City Attorney.
Planning Director Hurlburt said that the ordinance could result in lower
population density and fewer new homes.
City Attorney Barnard said that affect on land values is not a significant legal
issue.
Mayor Tierney said the Council must decide whether to grandfather existing
property. She said Chanhassen altered its ordinance to provide a grandfather
provision, and Maple Grove also grandfathered existing property.
Planning Supervisor Senness said that Plymouth has more wetlands than
Chanhassen, and Chanhassen had very few nonconforming parcels when the
ordinance was adopted. It is important to get additional information on the
specific impacts of an ordinance in Plymouth before adoption.
Councilmember Helliwell asked if small property owners could get a variance
once the ordinance was adopted.
City Attorney Barnard said methods to deal with variance situations can be put
in place in advance. Some provisions such as setbacks have a universal
application.
Planning Commission Chair Stulberg said it would be better to anticipate
situations during the creation of the ordinance rather than later deal with
variances.
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September 26, 1994
Page 5
Planning Commission Chairperson Stulberg asked if the Council would be
willing for the City to forego some types of development, such as affordable
housing, if a significant wetlands ordinance is adopted.
Councihnember Lymangood handed out information addressing the costs of not
enacting an ordinance. He said a wetlands ordinance is a key part, but not the
sole answer, to guaranteeing water quality. It is important to address water
quality now, since costs of solutions later will increase considerably. He
believes the Council should pursue the most cost effective way to clean up water
problems like Parkers Lake. These type of problems can become significant
liabilities to the City, and if the City waits too long. some water resources may
be unavailable at any cost. He believes that a City-wide standard would level
the playing field for all developers. The challenge will be to balance demands
of the wetlands ordinance with the Metropolitan Council's demands for
affordable housing.
Councihnember Morrison said the goal of the Council is to get a good wetland
ordinance adopted. If there are issues or amendments later, the Council can
consider those.
Planning Commissioner Albro said an effort to move too fast can also be a big
mistake. He was glad the Planning Commission and the Council took time and
based their decision on study. He said buffer strips wouldn't have done
anything to stop the problems at Parkers Lake. He suggested that the Council
consider buffer strips as their final decision with the ordinance.
Mayor Tierney invited members of the public to make brief comments.
Resident Tom Jes asked if the consultants would address the issue of buffer strip
size.
John Shardlow said they were not yet ready to offer recommendations in that
area.
Scott Krych said his firm looked at several types of buffer strips that could be
found in Plymouth. Fifty foot buffers produced effective removal of
phosphorus. Seventy-five feet buffers did the most with respect to removing
phosphorus and suspended solids. Fifty feet was the point of diminishing
return, based on studies.
Councilmember Helliwell asked if 25 -foot buffers are effective.
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September 26, 1994
Page 6
Mr. Krych said that depending on the slope and runoff, a buffer of as little as a
12 -feet can remove something.
Planning Commissioner Black said the type of soil and nature of vegetation can
also be a factor.
Mr. Shardlow said the term "engineered buffer" addresses characteristics such
as plant use to handle runoff.
Planning Commissioner Preus and Councilmember Morrison asked if an
evaluation of buffer strips is in place.
Shardlow said that draft language is included in the ordinance with a brief
explanation of performance standards of buffer strips.
Mr. Shardlow asked if there is an interest by the Council to deal with mitigation
issues in the ordinance.
Councilmember Lymangood said that standards such as front yard setback
reductions have already been dealt with in other areas.
Planning Director Hurlburt asked if the City wants to continue dealing with
setback issues on a variance basis, or could standards be amended in other areas
as a tradeoff. She asked how far beyond water quality the City should go in the
ordinance.
Councilmember Granath said he would like to see mitigation dealt with in the
ordinance, but that will complicate the ordinance. He supports simplicity in the
ordinance, while still meeting the desired objectives.
Resident Ken Wendinger thanked the Planning Commission and the Council for
listening to the views of residents on this issue.
Resident Rita O'Donnell commented on impervious surfaces and the use of
phosphorus. She said if a buffer zone had been in place earlier, the City may
have avoided some problems at Parkers Lake. She said while some industrial
use has contributed to the problems at Parkers Lake, it's a combination of all
uses that creates the problems. She said that buffers play an important role in
improving water quality.
Mayor Tierney called for a five minute recess.
Councilmember Helliwell left the meeting.
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September 26, 1994
Page 7
ITEM B DISCUSS FORMAT FOR OCTOBER WARD MEETINGS
Discussion was held and direction provided to staff on the desired format for the
upcoming Ward meetings.
ITEM C ESTABLISH DATE FOR CITY ATTORNEY INTERVIEWS
Assistant Manager Lueekert presented information on the four firms to be
interviewed for legal services, information about the process, and whether the
firms would consider providing only general or prosecution services.
Councilmember Lymangood said that due to a conflict of interest, he plans to
withdraw from the interviewing and voting process on the issue at this time.
One of the firms invests in a pension program that he manages.
Councilmember Edson said his firm has performed services for one legal firm
on the list, but his connection is not dependent on lost or gained fees. He finds
no conflict of interest in his own situation.
Councilmember Lymangood left the meeting.
Councilmember Edson requested that each firm provide a list of attorneys in
their firm who have personal areas of expertise in each of the legal service areas
the City needs.
Councilmember Granath said that the Subcommittee's videotaped interviews of
the firms are available for viewing, as well as the firms' proposals and analysis
tables prepared by staff. He asked that Councilmembers review this
information prior to the final interviews.
Assistant Manager Lueckert suggested that interviews could be conducted
November 1 and 3.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:38 p.m.