HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 08-12-1999Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
August 12, 1999
Page 31
Present: Chair Anderson, Commissioners Fiemann, Musliner, Thompson, Wahl and
Willegalle; staff Bisek, Blank, Busch, Jensen and Pederson; Councilmember Black
and Planning Commissioner Stein
Absent: Commissioner Priebe
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Anderson called the August meeting to order at 7 p.m. in the Council Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Willegalle and seconded by Commissioner Musliner
to approve the minutes of the July meeting as presented. The motion carried with all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present.
b. Staff Mary Bisek stated that the History Fest would be held Saturday, from 10-4 p.m., at
Parkers Lake. She said the Plymouth Leisure Times had been mailed to residents in early
August and asked if anyone had gotten any feedback on it. This is the newly formatted
recreation catalog, which is now being mailed separately from the city's main newsletter.
The cover on the next two issues will be designed in house. Starting in January, we will
have a consultant designing the cover.
4. PAST COUNCIL ACTION
None.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Comprehensive plan study session. Mary Bisek presented a draft copy of the Recreation
Programs component to the Comprehensive Plan. Mary explained that "Adding Quality
to Life" is our slogan. Our Mission Statement has been around for awhile and it probably
needs to be tweaked, she said. Under the component Public Recreation, Plymouth Park
and Recreation offers a broad range of recreational experiences for youth through adults.
These recreational offerings fall within the following categories — adaptive, arts,
educational, special events, sports, and miscellaneous. A chart showing the special
events Plymouth offers was discussed briefly and some suggestions were made for how
to more clearly show participation rates. The other components of the Recreation chapter
include: Recreation in School Districts (Plymouth is served by four school districts),
Other Public Facilities (i.e., golf courses, Hennepin Parks, Hennepin County Library,
Parkers Lake Golf Center, Historic Sites, etc.), Private Sector Recreation, National
Trends, and Recommendations. Mary asked the commissioners to spend some time in
the coming weeks studying the National Trends and Recommendations sections.
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Commissioner Musliner mentioned at -risk families being referred to in the first statement
under Recommendations, but not mentioned in the other statements. Mary said she will
look into this. Commissioner Fiemann said he agreed with the importance of historic
sites being identified throughout Plymouth and working with the Historical Society to
promote them.
b Plymouth Creek Center update. Crews are pouring concrete and laying slab around the
dome facility, and pulling wires for half the parking lot. The target is next week for curb
and gutter, and within two weeks they hope to have half the parking lot paved. We are
still on target for Astroturf crew to be there beginning September 1, and the dome
installation people are coming on October 15th. Staff is starting to market the facility.
Letters were sent out to all the soccer associations in the metropolitan area informing
them of the Fieldhouse opening soon and explaining the benefits of playing on Astroplay.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. Ferndale North Open Space. Director Blank explained how this issue surfaced with the
receipt of the first petition, which was then followed up by a second petition. The first
petition was asking that the current open space designation be changed to neighborhood
park and that a children's playground be installed. The second petition was requesting
that the open space status remain as is. He explained that commissioners had received all
of this information and that it would be forwarded to the Planning Commission and the
City Council. Director Blank explained that he had visited the site, which is 7.5 acres in
size, along with other members of the staff and members of PRAC. He stated that the
site is somewhat sloping with the north side higher than the south side. It's primarily
covered with weeds, sporadic tree growth and sumac. There is one drainage pond in the
northeast quadrant approximately two acres in size. The open space is entirely
surrounded by single family homes, but has three entrances that abut public street. The
City is currently upgrading Ferndale Lane and there will be an off road trail running north
and south connecting to County Road 6 on the north and Wayzata on the south. He said
if this item goes forward this evening, it will be on the September 8 Planning
Commission agenda. Director Blank reminded the audience that PRAC is an advisory
board, and the final decision will be made by the Council. Director Blank explained that
the Comprehensive Plan was originally developed in 1980 and was adopted in 1982. The
plan is being updated now through the year 2020. Director Blank displayed the current
parks and open space plan. He pointed out the neighborhood parks, city parks, playfields,
etc., and explained their fiunction. He then explained open space parcels and where they
are located. There are 50 service areas in the city. The entire park system plan was based
on 50 walking neighborhoods and 10 driving neighborhoods. Neighborhood parks are
designed to be within walking neighborhoods. The park plan goal is to have a
neighborhood park in every neighborhood, but this is not always possible. Sometimes
elementary schools serve the fiunction of a neighborhood park. Director Blank then said
that the 2020 population for Ferndale North is projected to be 429 people. Director Blank
explained the contract with the developer of this area, Lundgren Bros., and how this site
was deeded to the city as open space in 1977. The contract stated that this property
would not be developed and that no maintenance or improvements were intended or
implied. Director Blank then displayed some slides he had taken of the outlot showing
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the various entrances and different views of the open space from several directions.
Director Blank explained that the results of the first petition indicated a strong desire for
a playground to be installed somewhere within this open space. He thinks there is room
for some type of stricture measuring 120 feet by 120 feet, but staff hasn't figured out at
this point where it would be possible to put such a facility. He said that a public trail
system would have to be installed connecting to the playground in order to allow access
for the public and park maintenance vehicles to get in to maintain the site. After
reviewing all the information submitted by residents and reviewing our own data as well
as visiting the site, staff recommends that this property remain open space. While the
proponents have built a strong case for making a change, staff feels that the contract
between the city and the developer must be honored, if we are to assure our residents that
property deeded as open space remains open space. Staff further recommends that the
City try to find an alternative site for a Ferndale North playground.
Mary Butler, 625 Brockton Lane, stated they bought their property in 1992, and it backs
up to pond. They strongly oppose a neighborhood park.
Sarah Waldrop, 13 years old, 18845 8th Avenue. Their family moved from Nebraska to
Plymouth when she was six. She said she was not looking forward to it, because she
didn't want to leave her friends behind. Once she moved in, though, she was excited
about the pond, trees, wildlife, etc. She doesn't want a playground there. She enjoys
what she sees in her backyard every day when she wakes up and feels there are plenty of
other parks in the area that serve the needs of children. She said there are five
playgrounds nearby. She feels this is nature's playground. What would happen to the
animals if a playground was developed? She strongly encourages people who want a
playground to take their children back to the wildlife area.
Bob Biaggio, 18790 4th Avenue. He has two children of playground age. His property
does not adjoin the natural area. He's frustrated by how this matter proceeded. It was
not handled through the Ferndale HOA. He felt that the letter wasn't balanced in its
approach. He thinks playground support is narrow, and that preserve support is broad.
The neighborhood has always had children and he feels that there are acceptable
alternatives. He wants area to remain as is. Commissioner Fiemann asked if HOA has
taken an official stand on this. Biaggio said he would defer to someone else to answer
this. The HOA newsletter did not mention the petition, however.
Sue Siegel, 18520 5th Avenue, feels the neighborhood deserves and needs a
neighborhood park. She had a copy of the original petition results, showing more support
for a playground than non-support. With the original petition, Ann Johnson, President of
the HOA, was contacted about the legal status of this land. Ann was unable to find
anything. Sue finally called the city and found out that the property, while it was handed
over by Lundgren Bros., was not clearly identified. On the park and trail map, put out by
the city, it is referred to as a neighborhood park. Location isn't as important to her as
simply having a neighborhood park. There are 174 families, with 150 children under the
age of 14. Thirteen of the last 15 homes sold were sold to families with small children.
These kids have no place to meet or play. There are no sidewalks, etc. This
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neighborhood is landlocked by a busy road, a swamp and a lake. There are no nearby
parks. Residents have to cross County Road 6 to get to Imperial Hills. Gleason Lake is
an elementary school, so it's really too busy. She and her husband used to live in Golden
Valley, on a park, and they found that it was an anchor for the neighborhood. This was a
gathering place for entire neighborhood. You get a better sense of who lives in the
neighborhood if you have a park in your area. Her neighborhood has many play groups
that have no place to meet. They have a July 4th party that is forced to meet in a cul-de-
sac. She thinks the pond would be a great place to ice skate in the winter. This parcel is
7.5 acres in size. She thinks the timing is critical because of budget planning that will
take place in the next few months. She pointed out that they meet the standards
necessary for getting a neighborhood park.
Lynn Gardner, 320 Brockton Lane. She spent some time trying to get the President of the
HOA involved in this process. Her husband used to be the president. She observed that
this issue was becoming decisive in the neighborhood. She wanted the HOA to publish a
newsletter about this, but that didn't happen. She believes there is a plan that was
prepared by Lundgren Bros. back in 1977 showing that a playground was proposed at one
time. She says the land has been referred to many ways. Original contract set it aside as
a nature preserve. But it's also been called open space, neighborhood park, etc. What is
open space? Is this property now included in the open space that came about just a few
years ago? She wanted an explanation of this.
Art Keeney, 900 Brockton Lane. He wants the commission to vote in favor of a park.
He pointed out that Director Blank's report said they have moderate park service in this
neighborhood, but it seems more like it's classed as inadequate, in his opinion.
Susan Murray, 720 Alvarado Lane. She has lived here for five years. She has no young
children living at home. She didn't even know land was there until just recently. This
land is bordered by about 20 residents. She doesn't see it as open space, because it has
no access to anyone else living in the area. She answered yes to first petition asking for
playground. She would like a walking path at the very least. Chair Anderson asked who
initiated the survey? Was it the city? She said no. Said she did not vote a second time,
because she felt once was sufficient. She pointed out the good and bad points of
developing this area and thinks reality is somewhere in between.
Melissa Barnes, 615 Brockton Lane, doesn't want the preserve to be turned into a
playground. She doesn't want to lose the area that she enjoys playing in. She observes
lots of wildlife there and doesn't think there's a need for a playground. There are other
playgrounds within two miles of neighborhood. If you disturb the area, and there's under
use, then you tore down the trees for no good reason. If it's over used, then you have too
much traffic. She lives near one of the accesses, and thinks it will invite trespassers.
She's a babysitter in the neighborhood, and thinks kids have plenty of play equipment.
Betty Good, 605 Brockton Lane, has lived there since 1992. She's right in the middle of
the Brockton Lane horseshoe. Some of the homes have backyards that adjoin the
preserve and some homes back up to Hadley Lake. She wants the preserve kept as is.
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This is what they were promised, when they bought their home. They purchased in this
area, because it was so private.
Steve Belden, 18725 4th Place, lives on the nature preserve. They have two children who
enjoy living there. There are lots of wildlife, trees and shrubs that have been there for the
last 22 years. There are many non-native species that have crept in, along with what was
there in the beginning. It would be nice to see woodduck houses, plantings of hardwood
trees, etc. At one time, Dutch Elm trees were growing there, but they became diseased
and were removed. This area should be studied and enhanced.
Jennifer Summers, 18810 4th Avenue, wants to preserve the open space. Her concerns
about changing it are parking, traffic, etc. She currently drives to other neighborhood
parks with her children and meets other people there. She belongs to a neighborhood
play group. Doesn't want the increased traffic that would result if this was developed.
She lives right next to the largest access area. She feels that the woods are spectacular
and the area is used and appreciated. She also talked about the promise by the city that
the property would not change when they bought their home.
Bernette Finley-Drawe, 360 Brockton Lane, said she is the neighborhood crime watch
lady. She favors a neighborhood playground. The Ferndale area has an annual July 4th
parade that needs a place to meet. She feels that change does not have to imply worse.
This area is 7.5 acres in size. The playground would take up only one third of one acre.
She feels the city has a responsibility to make it safe, regardless of where the playground
would be placed.
Scott Drawe, 360 Brockton Lane, believes the issue is how to best use a piece of public
land. This is not private land for the benefit of just a few, he stated. It's been set aside as
open space. He agreed with Director Blank's assessment that it's fiill of weeds and some
trees. The two side access points are not discernible as public land, because the
homeowners on either side have mowed it, so it looks like it's private property. The third
access is overgrown and fiill of sumac and weeds. It is very inaccessible. Its value as
open space is limited because of that inaccessibility. He believes the issue is about taking
120 feet x 120 feet and turning it into a playground for all the children. Director Blank
pointed out in his presentation that this neighborhood is under served. They do not have
a park within 1/2 mile of their neighborhood. They lack public space where the
neighborhood can come together as a community. There have been concerns raised
regarding safety, he said. There really aren't safety issues in other neighborhood parks.
Why would this neighborhood be any different? Half of all other neighborhood parks
don't have parking lots, so why would this park need one? Breaching the open space
covenant is a separate issue. This is a matter of public policy that ought to be referred to
the City Council, he stated.
Patti Keeney, 900 Brockton Lane, said she was the author of the first petition. This
neighborhood needs a park. They have nothing accessible for strollers. She applauded
the city for its great park system. She said this is not a personal affront on anyone having
property that adjoins this site. It is public property. Parks are a long term investment.
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The first petition asked for a playground. No one wants to cut down any trees. She feels
there has to be some sort of compromise here. This land is already owned by Plymouth;
nothing else would have to be purchased to build here. There is no common area. When
she did the petition, she gave the residents a week to respond. Then she extended it a
couple of days. Additional petitions came in, half of these said no to the playground.
When the second petition came out, authored by someone else of the opposite viewpoint,
she had only a few days to respond. It was due on July 20th, but did not get handed into
the city until August. 6. She said she presented the petition to the President of the HOA
and asked for her support or input. The president said this was not an HOA issue.
Karen Effrem, 305 Brockton Lane, wants to try to find a compromise. She's more in
favor of a neighborhood park. She lives near the southern entrance to Ferndale. Two
busy streets border their property. Neighborhood park would be very nice for their
family. She favors some sort of gathering place, a place for children to play and she
wants to preserve the nature area. She doesn't see how a small playground and some
trails would destroy this open space. Commissioner Fiemann asked if she had ever
walked through there. She said it's not possible.
Dan Waldrop, 18845 8th Avenue, has lived there for 8 years and his property adjoins the
open space. He's opposed to the method that was used to try and change this space. This
is a public area. He said the first petition was sent out without any names as authors.
There were miss -statements contained in the petition. It was not factual. No where was
it explained that it would be forwarded to the city. Felt that this was an issue that should
have been first addressed by the neighborhood. A second survey was done by those
opposing the change from open space. He said they felt they had to do this, because they
didn't know who to go to regarding the first survey. He displayed a chart showing more
people were opposed to a neighborhood park than were in favor of it. The second
petition did include names of people that could be contacted with questions, etc. In total
142 homes voted in one or both petitions. Nineteen homes changed their votes in second
survey. Only 11 homes that voted the first time for a park, also voted a second time for
the park. Compiling results, 78 homes are opposed to the playground and 56 are in favor.
Those opposed are asking the city to live up to the original development agreement
between the city and Lundgren Bros., which states that the outlot will be represented as
open space with no improvements implied or intended. He believes this is a park,
because lots of kids go back there and play. He listed many other locations, such as
Klaprich, Wayzata West Middle School, Long Lake Beach, Wayzata Beach, Gleason
Lake Elementary School, Imperial Hills Park, and Oakwood Elementary School and all
the amenities at these locations. There is only one other open space in the southwest
portion of Plymouth.
Maureen English Carroll, 19010 11th Avenue, feels the neighborhood needs a park. She
has two children who are preschoolers and when they want to go to a park, they have to
drive to one. She would like to have someplace to walls to. She said that both petitions
address the issue that they want the public space to be available to the neighborhood. She
pointed out the access points to the open space saying how inaccessible they are. She
believes that there is some spot that could be mowed and put in a playground. No one
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wants this area to be clearcut. She had a list of neighbors that couldn't attend but wanted
their views on record as being in favor of a park. If the city cannot consider this space,
please consider something else nearby.
Mary Belden, 18725 4th Place, has lived in Ferndale North for four years. She has two
children four and seven. This is an inappropriate space for a playground, she said. There
are many, many reasons not to develop a playground in this current open space. This is
wildlife habitat. It is natural, undeveloped space. She quoted from Commissioner
Priebe's letter that open space needs to be preserved. People choose to live in Ferndale
North because of the emphasis on open space. Almost all of the homes backup to
something like a lake, marsh, woods, etc. Twenty of the homes back up to the open
space. Here is an opportunity for unstructured play. She claims it is not inaccessible.
She reminded everyone that at some time in their youth, they had a space like this, even if
it was just a vacant lot. A small playground would benefit only a few children, but
everyone can enjoy this open space. She pointed out all the play areas in the area that the
residents can go to. You don't have to have a private invitation to go into the open space.
A playground would sacrifice some of this area, because it would have to have trails put
in. Access is poor in terms of maintenance, policing, and fire. The fact that the area is
virtually surrounded by homes presents problems in attempting to get a playground in
there. Even the Mayor has said this space is "trouble." She quoted from the original
petition about no one wanting to infringe on property owners privacy. She stated that the
city has told anyone who asked that this parcel is open space and is not to be developed.
She then quoted the definition of a contract. She said the current comprehensive plan
correctly designates this as open space. The reference in an earlier map that this is a
neighborhood park was a mistake. Residents need to be able to trust their elected
officials. She then quoted Director Blank's statements in his staff report. There is not
overwhelming support for a change, she said. This is unsuitable due to its geography,
etc.
Jon Waldrop, 18845 8th Avenue, 17 years old. The nature preserve is right behind his
house. He's a debater on the high school debate team. You always go with the negative
when there's problems, he said. Where is everyone going to park when they go to this
park? Who is going to supervise this park? Maintaining privacy is a key issue to many
people. Where is the playground going to go? Who's job is it to secure this? How is
everyone going to access it? How is it going to be built? He said h met some really
strange kids growing up here when he was playing back in the woods. That area is a
jungle, a rainforest to the neighborhood kids. They have enough slides and swings in this
area. It is accessible to everyone. He said kids are going down to the open space
everyday.
Ned Carroll, 19010 1 Ith Avenue, strongly supports development of a small park. It's not
a strip mall or apartment complex. It's just a park. He's in favor of maintaining natural
areas, but this space doesn't have to be either/or. He feels there's room for both.
Ed Cerier, 815 Brockton Lane, has two young children. He bikes to parks, drives to
parks, and has used every park within 20 miles of his house. He hates to see natural areas
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being developed. This as a very emotional issue. He feels that people make choices
about where they want to live and it's not fair to imply that people who live on the open
space think it's their private backyard. He heard people say they feel they're not
welcome back there. He's asked many of the residents if he can cross their yard to get to
open space and they've all been very accommodating. He feels it's very accessible. On
behalf of the animals that don't talk, he feels it was their land before it was ours. He is
opposed to the development of a park.
Pat Moran, 505 Brockton Lane, can see the property from his house. He said it should be
primarily a walls -in park. He feels that the motives of the individuals who sent out the
first petition were clear and honorable. He thinks a tot lot could tastefiilly be laid out in
this space.
Chair Anderson stated that the issue before the park commission is what to do with this
space. He gave all those who spoke a second chance to express their opinions, saying
they would be limited to two minutes.
Dan Waldrop said the 120' by 120' playground came up in the 11th hour. Commissioner
Fiemann asked him if he could see a compromise. Waldrop said yes.
Susan Murray said she wants the city to do its own survey. Send it to every household.
She would like some sort of access put in, like a woodchip trail.
Betty Good said this is a very friendly neighborhood and that this is the first time
anything has divided them, and she doesn't want to live in a neighborhood where people
don't like each other.
Karen Effrem doesn't want division in the neighborhood. There does need to be a good
understanding of what would comprise development. She said yes on the first petition,
then said undecided on the second. She's in favor of some sort of access, but doesn't
want it clear cut. If there is some sort of development in there, nature will not go away.
Wildlife does cross their property which is on a busy road. There's some contradiction
by the people that are strongly opposed, she said. On one hand they claim there's going
to be a problem with privacy, but then they say people walk through their yards all the
time on their way to the open space and that's okay with them.
Mary Belden said she doesn't think there is a suitable compromise. Putting the
playground in the middle puts it on a steep slope. A secluded park area is a bad idea. If
you place playground outside the middle, it would infringe on people's privacy, which is
not what the intent of the first petition stated. She doesn't want underage drinking going
on in her neighborhood. It's a secluded area now, but it isn't a magnet. Commissioner
Wahl asked how a playground is a gathering place for drinking beer, but not a secluded,
wooded area?
Sue Siegel said she wants to be the voice for the many small children who want a
neighborhood park.
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Sara Waldrop said she's one of the 150 children in Ferndale North who doesn't want this
park.
Steve Belden said most of the people right around the nature preserve said no on the first
petition. The second petition talked about what was implied when putting the
neighborhood park there. When they saw that, the tables were turned somewhat.
Commissioner Fiemann said it sounds like some people want it as a nature preserve that
allows people to get into it. He said the entrances don't look inviting. Belden said some
people ignore that and just march in. He doesn't want developed paths or a woodchip
path.
Jennifer Sommers doesn't understand why people feel so left out, when there's this huge
marshland that exists nearby.
Ginny Black, Council liaison to the Park Commission, apologized for having to leave
early.
Maureen English Carroll wants to see some type of access. If this issue is going to hinge
on what is open space, decide what the city's policy is going to be on this space.
Chair Anderson then asked for the opinions of commissioners. He said that no matter
what happens here, safety is an issue. It does present problems. Commissioner Wahl
talked about Three Ponds Park, and how he was opposed at first to a playground in the
middle of this natural area, but he is now quite pleased with the results.
Director Blank said he studies every police report that comes in that mentions trails or
parks. There have been no complaints that he can recall this past year on Imperial Hills,
although there have been problems there in the past. July 4th is usually the time when the
most complaints come in. Just about every park has generated some type of complaint
over the years. Commissioner Musliner feels there are three issues — a playground in the
preserve, maintaining open space, and maintaining the integrity of the original agreement
between the developer and the City. Commissioner Wahl said that he has been involved
with the open space issue for five years and that they still haven't been able to come up
with a definition of open space. He believes that the people who are in favor of a park
have a good point. But there is the issue of what was agreed to by original development
contract. There are lots of parks in the city that mingle nature areas with active areas, and
it works quite well, but we have to maintain the agreement from 1977. Commissioner
Fiemann believes it is an under served area. He lives 1/4 mile away from a park, himself.
As a child, one of the areas he enjoyed playing in was undeveloped. The entrances to this
open space really are difficult to find. When he went to visit the site, he said he felt like
an intruder until he explained why he was there. He's in favor of living up to the
agreement of 20 years ago. Chair Anderson agrees but feels there is an obligation to find
play space for this area. Is there an alternative site for this? Director Blank says there
doesn't appear to be one in close proximity. There is some space at the southeast
intersection of County Road 6 and Ferndale, which consists of two undeveloped lots.
This is the closest that could be considered as an alternative site. A pond is being
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constricted on a portion of one of these lots. Commissioner Fiemann asked if the city of
Orono would be interested in a joint project? Director Blank said they haven't looked
into this at all. Commissioner Wahl said that one of the conclusions is that open space
should be maintained and managed by the city in terms of maintaining natural species
and cleaning things up and improving the area. He suggested that staff Paul Buck and
Mark Peterson go in there to take a look at some things that could be done.
Chair Anderson moved to follow staff s recommendation to leave area as is with strong
emphasis on finding alternative location. Commissioner Thompson has been wrestling
with this and worries about the decisiveness. She suggested that a group of Ferndale
North residents get together to see if they can work out a compromise. Several audience
members said they were not interested in doing that. She suggested that staff look further
into ways to make the open space more accessible.
Scott Drawe then commented on Commissioner Thompson's suggestion. He'd be willing
to work toward a compromise. It's just an issue that people are having a disagreement
over, he stated.
Mary Waldrop said she has spent her entire summer researching this and doesn't want to
spend any more time on it. They were promised when they bought their property that this
area would remain as open space, and she pleaded with the Commission to live up to that
agreement. Commissioner Fiemann asked if she would like a wood chip trail? She said
no, but she would favor making an entrance accessible.
Director Blank said that only three entities can ask for reguiding, the owner, the Planning
Commission, or the City Council. The proper procedure after tonight's action is for this
to proceed to the Planning Commission, and they will decide if it's necessary to hold a
public hearing. If the Planning Commission says no to changing the comprehensive plan,
then it gets forwarded to the City Council, and it would be up to them to direct the
Planning Commission to hold a public hearing, or the City Council can say no right
away. The City Council could also direct staff to come up with some sort of management
plan for this site. Each of the open space sites that was purchased by the City following
the 1995 bond referendum had something unique about it. Each site had to have some
type of management plan. This site has not been previously managed. The park plan
from 1980 did not have a chapter on open space, golf courses, etc. These now have to be
addressed in the new 20 year plan. A management plan will be part of that open space
chapter. Regardless of what the park commission decides this evening, this issue has to
go to the Planning Commission as the next step in the process, Director Blank said.
COMMISSIONER FIEMAN MADE A MOTION RECOMMENDING TO MAINTAIN
FERNDALE NORTH OUTLOT A AS OPEN SPACE, TO IMPROVE ACCESS AT
ENTRYWAYS, TO SEEK AN ALTERNATIVE PLAYGROUND CLOSE BY, AND
TO DIRECT STAFF TO CONSIDER SOME TYPE OF A MANAGEMENT PLAN.
CHAIR ANDERSON SECONDED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ALL AYES.
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Commissioner Musliner asked about the budget for a possible playground. Director
Blank said that currently we are replacing three playgrounds, which we do on a 15 year
cycle. There is no money budgeted for anything in Ferndale North in the current 5 -year
plan.
Director Blank said this issue will be on the Planning Commission's September 8 agenda.
b. Survey and recommendation on ballroom rental pricing_ Matt Jensen introduced himself,
and said he was a student at the U of M, doing his internship with the city. Matt did some
research on ballroom rentals, banquet halls, and classrooms. Matt found many different
rates being charged throughout the metro area. Rick Busch said Matt did a very good job
and spent a lot of time gathering the data. Rick said he tried to do a composite of similar
facilities that offered banquet rooms with a capacity of 250 or more. We can seat 350 at
round tables in our new facility. We are looking at a range of $400 to $700 an evening.
Rick is recommending, per a six hour period, a rate of $650 for residents to rent our
banquet hall on a Friday or Saturday, $400 on Sundays and $250 on Monday through
Thursday. Our facility is far superior to any others that were researched. Commissioner
Thompson is concerned that our rates may be a little too low. Director Blank said in
setting our fees, we set them compared to community facility rates as opposed to private
banquet facilities. These rates would be reviewed annually, as we do with all facility
rental rates. Commissioner Willegalle agrees with this practice of annually reviewing
rates. Director Blank said we intend to talk to the Reserve about them possibly being the
caterer. Commissioner Wahl asked if the police attendant is required. Rick said most
communities do require it when alcohol is served. Security of some kind should be
present. Rick has had conversations with Police Chief Gerdes and has learned that our
police department prefers to have officers present in pairs. Councilmember Black asked
about the $650 rate for residents and only $750 for non-residents. She thinks the non-
resident is getting a better deal. Commissioner Thompson pointed out that residents can
reserve it much further in advance than non-residents. Should non-residents pay more?
Director Blank said our objective is to book often and book early. It would be in the
city's best interest to have every Saturday and Sunday night booked all year. Maybe after
the first year, non-residents could end up paying more.
COMMISSIONER THOMPSON MOVED TO ACCEPT STAFF'S PROPOSED
RENTAL RATES FOR RESIDENTS AND NON-RESIDENTS AND TO LEAVE
CHARGE FOR SECURITY GUARD PENDING. COMMISSIONER WAHL
SECONDED. Director Blank said there's going to be a lot of policies for this facility
that will need to be adopted in the coming months, but we need to get this decided now,
because people are calling about renting it for weddings next summer. THE MOTION
CARRIED WITH ALL AYES.
7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION
None.
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
PRAC Minutes/August 1999
Page 42
Since the special meeting to discuss the comprehensive plan wasn't held in July, a second
meeting will need to be scheduled for the month of August. Both the 25th and 26th are being
considered. Once it's determined which night is better for more people, a notice will go out,
or a call will be made informing each commissioner which night the meeting will be held.
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 10:55 p.m.