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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 08-12-1999Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting August 12, 1999 Page 31 Present: Chair Anderson, Commissioners Fiemann, Musliner, Thompson, Wahl and Willegalle; staff Bisek, Blank, Busch, Jensen and Pederson; Councilmember Black and Planning Commissioner Stein Absent: Commissioner Priebe 1. CALL TO ORDER Chair Anderson called the August meeting to order at 7 p.m. in the Council Chambers. 2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES A motion was made by Commissioner Willegalle and seconded by Commissioner Musliner to approve the minutes of the July meeting as presented. The motion carried with all ayes. 3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS a. Athletic Associations. None were present. b. Staff Mary Bisek stated that the History Fest would be held Saturday, from 10-4 p.m., at Parkers Lake. She said the Plymouth Leisure Times had been mailed to residents in early August and asked if anyone had gotten any feedback on it. This is the newly formatted recreation catalog, which is now being mailed separately from the city's main newsletter. The cover on the next two issues will be designed in house. Starting in January, we will have a consultant designing the cover. 4. PAST COUNCIL ACTION None. 5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS a. Comprehensive plan study session. Mary Bisek presented a draft copy of the Recreation Programs component to the Comprehensive Plan. Mary explained that "Adding Quality to Life" is our slogan. Our Mission Statement has been around for awhile and it probably needs to be tweaked, she said. Under the component Public Recreation, Plymouth Park and Recreation offers a broad range of recreational experiences for youth through adults. These recreational offerings fall within the following categories — adaptive, arts, educational, special events, sports, and miscellaneous. A chart showing the special events Plymouth offers was discussed briefly and some suggestions were made for how to more clearly show participation rates. The other components of the Recreation chapter include: Recreation in School Districts (Plymouth is served by four school districts), Other Public Facilities (i.e., golf courses, Hennepin Parks, Hennepin County Library, Parkers Lake Golf Center, Historic Sites, etc.), Private Sector Recreation, National Trends, and Recommendations. Mary asked the commissioners to spend some time in the coming weeks studying the National Trends and Recommendations sections. PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 32 Commissioner Musliner mentioned at -risk families being referred to in the first statement under Recommendations, but not mentioned in the other statements. Mary said she will look into this. Commissioner Fiemann said he agreed with the importance of historic sites being identified throughout Plymouth and working with the Historical Society to promote them. b Plymouth Creek Center update. Crews are pouring concrete and laying slab around the dome facility, and pulling wires for half the parking lot. The target is next week for curb and gutter, and within two weeks they hope to have half the parking lot paved. We are still on target for Astroturf crew to be there beginning September 1, and the dome installation people are coming on October 15th. Staff is starting to market the facility. Letters were sent out to all the soccer associations in the metropolitan area informing them of the Fieldhouse opening soon and explaining the benefits of playing on Astroplay. 6. NEW BUSINESS a. Ferndale North Open Space. Director Blank explained how this issue surfaced with the receipt of the first petition, which was then followed up by a second petition. The first petition was asking that the current open space designation be changed to neighborhood park and that a children's playground be installed. The second petition was requesting that the open space status remain as is. He explained that commissioners had received all of this information and that it would be forwarded to the Planning Commission and the City Council. Director Blank explained that he had visited the site, which is 7.5 acres in size, along with other members of the staff and members of PRAC. He stated that the site is somewhat sloping with the north side higher than the south side. It's primarily covered with weeds, sporadic tree growth and sumac. There is one drainage pond in the northeast quadrant approximately two acres in size. The open space is entirely surrounded by single family homes, but has three entrances that abut public street. The City is currently upgrading Ferndale Lane and there will be an off road trail running north and south connecting to County Road 6 on the north and Wayzata on the south. He said if this item goes forward this evening, it will be on the September 8 Planning Commission agenda. Director Blank reminded the audience that PRAC is an advisory board, and the final decision will be made by the Council. Director Blank explained that the Comprehensive Plan was originally developed in 1980 and was adopted in 1982. The plan is being updated now through the year 2020. Director Blank displayed the current parks and open space plan. He pointed out the neighborhood parks, city parks, playfields, etc., and explained their fiunction. He then explained open space parcels and where they are located. There are 50 service areas in the city. The entire park system plan was based on 50 walking neighborhoods and 10 driving neighborhoods. Neighborhood parks are designed to be within walking neighborhoods. The park plan goal is to have a neighborhood park in every neighborhood, but this is not always possible. Sometimes elementary schools serve the fiunction of a neighborhood park. Director Blank then said that the 2020 population for Ferndale North is projected to be 429 people. Director Blank explained the contract with the developer of this area, Lundgren Bros., and how this site was deeded to the city as open space in 1977. The contract stated that this property would not be developed and that no maintenance or improvements were intended or implied. Director Blank then displayed some slides he had taken of the outlot showing PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 33 the various entrances and different views of the open space from several directions. Director Blank explained that the results of the first petition indicated a strong desire for a playground to be installed somewhere within this open space. He thinks there is room for some type of stricture measuring 120 feet by 120 feet, but staff hasn't figured out at this point where it would be possible to put such a facility. He said that a public trail system would have to be installed connecting to the playground in order to allow access for the public and park maintenance vehicles to get in to maintain the site. After reviewing all the information submitted by residents and reviewing our own data as well as visiting the site, staff recommends that this property remain open space. While the proponents have built a strong case for making a change, staff feels that the contract between the city and the developer must be honored, if we are to assure our residents that property deeded as open space remains open space. Staff further recommends that the City try to find an alternative site for a Ferndale North playground. Mary Butler, 625 Brockton Lane, stated they bought their property in 1992, and it backs up to pond. They strongly oppose a neighborhood park. Sarah Waldrop, 13 years old, 18845 8th Avenue. Their family moved from Nebraska to Plymouth when she was six. She said she was not looking forward to it, because she didn't want to leave her friends behind. Once she moved in, though, she was excited about the pond, trees, wildlife, etc. She doesn't want a playground there. She enjoys what she sees in her backyard every day when she wakes up and feels there are plenty of other parks in the area that serve the needs of children. She said there are five playgrounds nearby. She feels this is nature's playground. What would happen to the animals if a playground was developed? She strongly encourages people who want a playground to take their children back to the wildlife area. Bob Biaggio, 18790 4th Avenue. He has two children of playground age. His property does not adjoin the natural area. He's frustrated by how this matter proceeded. It was not handled through the Ferndale HOA. He felt that the letter wasn't balanced in its approach. He thinks playground support is narrow, and that preserve support is broad. The neighborhood has always had children and he feels that there are acceptable alternatives. He wants area to remain as is. Commissioner Fiemann asked if HOA has taken an official stand on this. Biaggio said he would defer to someone else to answer this. The HOA newsletter did not mention the petition, however. Sue Siegel, 18520 5th Avenue, feels the neighborhood deserves and needs a neighborhood park. She had a copy of the original petition results, showing more support for a playground than non-support. With the original petition, Ann Johnson, President of the HOA, was contacted about the legal status of this land. Ann was unable to find anything. Sue finally called the city and found out that the property, while it was handed over by Lundgren Bros., was not clearly identified. On the park and trail map, put out by the city, it is referred to as a neighborhood park. Location isn't as important to her as simply having a neighborhood park. There are 174 families, with 150 children under the age of 14. Thirteen of the last 15 homes sold were sold to families with small children. These kids have no place to meet or play. There are no sidewalks, etc. This PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 34 neighborhood is landlocked by a busy road, a swamp and a lake. There are no nearby parks. Residents have to cross County Road 6 to get to Imperial Hills. Gleason Lake is an elementary school, so it's really too busy. She and her husband used to live in Golden Valley, on a park, and they found that it was an anchor for the neighborhood. This was a gathering place for entire neighborhood. You get a better sense of who lives in the neighborhood if you have a park in your area. Her neighborhood has many play groups that have no place to meet. They have a July 4th party that is forced to meet in a cul-de- sac. She thinks the pond would be a great place to ice skate in the winter. This parcel is 7.5 acres in size. She thinks the timing is critical because of budget planning that will take place in the next few months. She pointed out that they meet the standards necessary for getting a neighborhood park. Lynn Gardner, 320 Brockton Lane. She spent some time trying to get the President of the HOA involved in this process. Her husband used to be the president. She observed that this issue was becoming decisive in the neighborhood. She wanted the HOA to publish a newsletter about this, but that didn't happen. She believes there is a plan that was prepared by Lundgren Bros. back in 1977 showing that a playground was proposed at one time. She says the land has been referred to many ways. Original contract set it aside as a nature preserve. But it's also been called open space, neighborhood park, etc. What is open space? Is this property now included in the open space that came about just a few years ago? She wanted an explanation of this. Art Keeney, 900 Brockton Lane. He wants the commission to vote in favor of a park. He pointed out that Director Blank's report said they have moderate park service in this neighborhood, but it seems more like it's classed as inadequate, in his opinion. Susan Murray, 720 Alvarado Lane. She has lived here for five years. She has no young children living at home. She didn't even know land was there until just recently. This land is bordered by about 20 residents. She doesn't see it as open space, because it has no access to anyone else living in the area. She answered yes to first petition asking for playground. She would like a walking path at the very least. Chair Anderson asked who initiated the survey? Was it the city? She said no. Said she did not vote a second time, because she felt once was sufficient. She pointed out the good and bad points of developing this area and thinks reality is somewhere in between. Melissa Barnes, 615 Brockton Lane, doesn't want the preserve to be turned into a playground. She doesn't want to lose the area that she enjoys playing in. She observes lots of wildlife there and doesn't think there's a need for a playground. There are other playgrounds within two miles of neighborhood. If you disturb the area, and there's under use, then you tore down the trees for no good reason. If it's over used, then you have too much traffic. She lives near one of the accesses, and thinks it will invite trespassers. She's a babysitter in the neighborhood, and thinks kids have plenty of play equipment. Betty Good, 605 Brockton Lane, has lived there since 1992. She's right in the middle of the Brockton Lane horseshoe. Some of the homes have backyards that adjoin the preserve and some homes back up to Hadley Lake. She wants the preserve kept as is. PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 35 This is what they were promised, when they bought their home. They purchased in this area, because it was so private. Steve Belden, 18725 4th Place, lives on the nature preserve. They have two children who enjoy living there. There are lots of wildlife, trees and shrubs that have been there for the last 22 years. There are many non-native species that have crept in, along with what was there in the beginning. It would be nice to see woodduck houses, plantings of hardwood trees, etc. At one time, Dutch Elm trees were growing there, but they became diseased and were removed. This area should be studied and enhanced. Jennifer Summers, 18810 4th Avenue, wants to preserve the open space. Her concerns about changing it are parking, traffic, etc. She currently drives to other neighborhood parks with her children and meets other people there. She belongs to a neighborhood play group. Doesn't want the increased traffic that would result if this was developed. She lives right next to the largest access area. She feels that the woods are spectacular and the area is used and appreciated. She also talked about the promise by the city that the property would not change when they bought their home. Bernette Finley-Drawe, 360 Brockton Lane, said she is the neighborhood crime watch lady. She favors a neighborhood playground. The Ferndale area has an annual July 4th parade that needs a place to meet. She feels that change does not have to imply worse. This area is 7.5 acres in size. The playground would take up only one third of one acre. She feels the city has a responsibility to make it safe, regardless of where the playground would be placed. Scott Drawe, 360 Brockton Lane, believes the issue is how to best use a piece of public land. This is not private land for the benefit of just a few, he stated. It's been set aside as open space. He agreed with Director Blank's assessment that it's fiill of weeds and some trees. The two side access points are not discernible as public land, because the homeowners on either side have mowed it, so it looks like it's private property. The third access is overgrown and fiill of sumac and weeds. It is very inaccessible. Its value as open space is limited because of that inaccessibility. He believes the issue is about taking 120 feet x 120 feet and turning it into a playground for all the children. Director Blank pointed out in his presentation that this neighborhood is under served. They do not have a park within 1/2 mile of their neighborhood. They lack public space where the neighborhood can come together as a community. There have been concerns raised regarding safety, he said. There really aren't safety issues in other neighborhood parks. Why would this neighborhood be any different? Half of all other neighborhood parks don't have parking lots, so why would this park need one? Breaching the open space covenant is a separate issue. This is a matter of public policy that ought to be referred to the City Council, he stated. Patti Keeney, 900 Brockton Lane, said she was the author of the first petition. This neighborhood needs a park. They have nothing accessible for strollers. She applauded the city for its great park system. She said this is not a personal affront on anyone having property that adjoins this site. It is public property. Parks are a long term investment. PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 36 The first petition asked for a playground. No one wants to cut down any trees. She feels there has to be some sort of compromise here. This land is already owned by Plymouth; nothing else would have to be purchased to build here. There is no common area. When she did the petition, she gave the residents a week to respond. Then she extended it a couple of days. Additional petitions came in, half of these said no to the playground. When the second petition came out, authored by someone else of the opposite viewpoint, she had only a few days to respond. It was due on July 20th, but did not get handed into the city until August. 6. She said she presented the petition to the President of the HOA and asked for her support or input. The president said this was not an HOA issue. Karen Effrem, 305 Brockton Lane, wants to try to find a compromise. She's more in favor of a neighborhood park. She lives near the southern entrance to Ferndale. Two busy streets border their property. Neighborhood park would be very nice for their family. She favors some sort of gathering place, a place for children to play and she wants to preserve the nature area. She doesn't see how a small playground and some trails would destroy this open space. Commissioner Fiemann asked if she had ever walked through there. She said it's not possible. Dan Waldrop, 18845 8th Avenue, has lived there for 8 years and his property adjoins the open space. He's opposed to the method that was used to try and change this space. This is a public area. He said the first petition was sent out without any names as authors. There were miss -statements contained in the petition. It was not factual. No where was it explained that it would be forwarded to the city. Felt that this was an issue that should have been first addressed by the neighborhood. A second survey was done by those opposing the change from open space. He said they felt they had to do this, because they didn't know who to go to regarding the first survey. He displayed a chart showing more people were opposed to a neighborhood park than were in favor of it. The second petition did include names of people that could be contacted with questions, etc. In total 142 homes voted in one or both petitions. Nineteen homes changed their votes in second survey. Only 11 homes that voted the first time for a park, also voted a second time for the park. Compiling results, 78 homes are opposed to the playground and 56 are in favor. Those opposed are asking the city to live up to the original development agreement between the city and Lundgren Bros., which states that the outlot will be represented as open space with no improvements implied or intended. He believes this is a park, because lots of kids go back there and play. He listed many other locations, such as Klaprich, Wayzata West Middle School, Long Lake Beach, Wayzata Beach, Gleason Lake Elementary School, Imperial Hills Park, and Oakwood Elementary School and all the amenities at these locations. There is only one other open space in the southwest portion of Plymouth. Maureen English Carroll, 19010 11th Avenue, feels the neighborhood needs a park. She has two children who are preschoolers and when they want to go to a park, they have to drive to one. She would like to have someplace to walls to. She said that both petitions address the issue that they want the public space to be available to the neighborhood. She pointed out the access points to the open space saying how inaccessible they are. She believes that there is some spot that could be mowed and put in a playground. No one PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 37 wants this area to be clearcut. She had a list of neighbors that couldn't attend but wanted their views on record as being in favor of a park. If the city cannot consider this space, please consider something else nearby. Mary Belden, 18725 4th Place, has lived in Ferndale North for four years. She has two children four and seven. This is an inappropriate space for a playground, she said. There are many, many reasons not to develop a playground in this current open space. This is wildlife habitat. It is natural, undeveloped space. She quoted from Commissioner Priebe's letter that open space needs to be preserved. People choose to live in Ferndale North because of the emphasis on open space. Almost all of the homes backup to something like a lake, marsh, woods, etc. Twenty of the homes back up to the open space. Here is an opportunity for unstructured play. She claims it is not inaccessible. She reminded everyone that at some time in their youth, they had a space like this, even if it was just a vacant lot. A small playground would benefit only a few children, but everyone can enjoy this open space. She pointed out all the play areas in the area that the residents can go to. You don't have to have a private invitation to go into the open space. A playground would sacrifice some of this area, because it would have to have trails put in. Access is poor in terms of maintenance, policing, and fire. The fact that the area is virtually surrounded by homes presents problems in attempting to get a playground in there. Even the Mayor has said this space is "trouble." She quoted from the original petition about no one wanting to infringe on property owners privacy. She stated that the city has told anyone who asked that this parcel is open space and is not to be developed. She then quoted the definition of a contract. She said the current comprehensive plan correctly designates this as open space. The reference in an earlier map that this is a neighborhood park was a mistake. Residents need to be able to trust their elected officials. She then quoted Director Blank's statements in his staff report. There is not overwhelming support for a change, she said. This is unsuitable due to its geography, etc. Jon Waldrop, 18845 8th Avenue, 17 years old. The nature preserve is right behind his house. He's a debater on the high school debate team. You always go with the negative when there's problems, he said. Where is everyone going to park when they go to this park? Who is going to supervise this park? Maintaining privacy is a key issue to many people. Where is the playground going to go? Who's job is it to secure this? How is everyone going to access it? How is it going to be built? He said h met some really strange kids growing up here when he was playing back in the woods. That area is a jungle, a rainforest to the neighborhood kids. They have enough slides and swings in this area. It is accessible to everyone. He said kids are going down to the open space everyday. Ned Carroll, 19010 1 Ith Avenue, strongly supports development of a small park. It's not a strip mall or apartment complex. It's just a park. He's in favor of maintaining natural areas, but this space doesn't have to be either/or. He feels there's room for both. Ed Cerier, 815 Brockton Lane, has two young children. He bikes to parks, drives to parks, and has used every park within 20 miles of his house. He hates to see natural areas PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 38 being developed. This as a very emotional issue. He feels that people make choices about where they want to live and it's not fair to imply that people who live on the open space think it's their private backyard. He heard people say they feel they're not welcome back there. He's asked many of the residents if he can cross their yard to get to open space and they've all been very accommodating. He feels it's very accessible. On behalf of the animals that don't talk, he feels it was their land before it was ours. He is opposed to the development of a park. Pat Moran, 505 Brockton Lane, can see the property from his house. He said it should be primarily a walls -in park. He feels that the motives of the individuals who sent out the first petition were clear and honorable. He thinks a tot lot could tastefiilly be laid out in this space. Chair Anderson stated that the issue before the park commission is what to do with this space. He gave all those who spoke a second chance to express their opinions, saying they would be limited to two minutes. Dan Waldrop said the 120' by 120' playground came up in the 11th hour. Commissioner Fiemann asked him if he could see a compromise. Waldrop said yes. Susan Murray said she wants the city to do its own survey. Send it to every household. She would like some sort of access put in, like a woodchip trail. Betty Good said this is a very friendly neighborhood and that this is the first time anything has divided them, and she doesn't want to live in a neighborhood where people don't like each other. Karen Effrem doesn't want division in the neighborhood. There does need to be a good understanding of what would comprise development. She said yes on the first petition, then said undecided on the second. She's in favor of some sort of access, but doesn't want it clear cut. If there is some sort of development in there, nature will not go away. Wildlife does cross their property which is on a busy road. There's some contradiction by the people that are strongly opposed, she said. On one hand they claim there's going to be a problem with privacy, but then they say people walk through their yards all the time on their way to the open space and that's okay with them. Mary Belden said she doesn't think there is a suitable compromise. Putting the playground in the middle puts it on a steep slope. A secluded park area is a bad idea. If you place playground outside the middle, it would infringe on people's privacy, which is not what the intent of the first petition stated. She doesn't want underage drinking going on in her neighborhood. It's a secluded area now, but it isn't a magnet. Commissioner Wahl asked how a playground is a gathering place for drinking beer, but not a secluded, wooded area? Sue Siegel said she wants to be the voice for the many small children who want a neighborhood park. PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 39 Sara Waldrop said she's one of the 150 children in Ferndale North who doesn't want this park. Steve Belden said most of the people right around the nature preserve said no on the first petition. The second petition talked about what was implied when putting the neighborhood park there. When they saw that, the tables were turned somewhat. Commissioner Fiemann said it sounds like some people want it as a nature preserve that allows people to get into it. He said the entrances don't look inviting. Belden said some people ignore that and just march in. He doesn't want developed paths or a woodchip path. Jennifer Sommers doesn't understand why people feel so left out, when there's this huge marshland that exists nearby. Ginny Black, Council liaison to the Park Commission, apologized for having to leave early. Maureen English Carroll wants to see some type of access. If this issue is going to hinge on what is open space, decide what the city's policy is going to be on this space. Chair Anderson then asked for the opinions of commissioners. He said that no matter what happens here, safety is an issue. It does present problems. Commissioner Wahl talked about Three Ponds Park, and how he was opposed at first to a playground in the middle of this natural area, but he is now quite pleased with the results. Director Blank said he studies every police report that comes in that mentions trails or parks. There have been no complaints that he can recall this past year on Imperial Hills, although there have been problems there in the past. July 4th is usually the time when the most complaints come in. Just about every park has generated some type of complaint over the years. Commissioner Musliner feels there are three issues — a playground in the preserve, maintaining open space, and maintaining the integrity of the original agreement between the developer and the City. Commissioner Wahl said that he has been involved with the open space issue for five years and that they still haven't been able to come up with a definition of open space. He believes that the people who are in favor of a park have a good point. But there is the issue of what was agreed to by original development contract. There are lots of parks in the city that mingle nature areas with active areas, and it works quite well, but we have to maintain the agreement from 1977. Commissioner Fiemann believes it is an under served area. He lives 1/4 mile away from a park, himself. As a child, one of the areas he enjoyed playing in was undeveloped. The entrances to this open space really are difficult to find. When he went to visit the site, he said he felt like an intruder until he explained why he was there. He's in favor of living up to the agreement of 20 years ago. Chair Anderson agrees but feels there is an obligation to find play space for this area. Is there an alternative site for this? Director Blank says there doesn't appear to be one in close proximity. There is some space at the southeast intersection of County Road 6 and Ferndale, which consists of two undeveloped lots. This is the closest that could be considered as an alternative site. A pond is being PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 40 constricted on a portion of one of these lots. Commissioner Fiemann asked if the city of Orono would be interested in a joint project? Director Blank said they haven't looked into this at all. Commissioner Wahl said that one of the conclusions is that open space should be maintained and managed by the city in terms of maintaining natural species and cleaning things up and improving the area. He suggested that staff Paul Buck and Mark Peterson go in there to take a look at some things that could be done. Chair Anderson moved to follow staff s recommendation to leave area as is with strong emphasis on finding alternative location. Commissioner Thompson has been wrestling with this and worries about the decisiveness. She suggested that a group of Ferndale North residents get together to see if they can work out a compromise. Several audience members said they were not interested in doing that. She suggested that staff look further into ways to make the open space more accessible. Scott Drawe then commented on Commissioner Thompson's suggestion. He'd be willing to work toward a compromise. It's just an issue that people are having a disagreement over, he stated. Mary Waldrop said she has spent her entire summer researching this and doesn't want to spend any more time on it. They were promised when they bought their property that this area would remain as open space, and she pleaded with the Commission to live up to that agreement. Commissioner Fiemann asked if she would like a wood chip trail? She said no, but she would favor making an entrance accessible. Director Blank said that only three entities can ask for reguiding, the owner, the Planning Commission, or the City Council. The proper procedure after tonight's action is for this to proceed to the Planning Commission, and they will decide if it's necessary to hold a public hearing. If the Planning Commission says no to changing the comprehensive plan, then it gets forwarded to the City Council, and it would be up to them to direct the Planning Commission to hold a public hearing, or the City Council can say no right away. The City Council could also direct staff to come up with some sort of management plan for this site. Each of the open space sites that was purchased by the City following the 1995 bond referendum had something unique about it. Each site had to have some type of management plan. This site has not been previously managed. The park plan from 1980 did not have a chapter on open space, golf courses, etc. These now have to be addressed in the new 20 year plan. A management plan will be part of that open space chapter. Regardless of what the park commission decides this evening, this issue has to go to the Planning Commission as the next step in the process, Director Blank said. COMMISSIONER FIEMAN MADE A MOTION RECOMMENDING TO MAINTAIN FERNDALE NORTH OUTLOT A AS OPEN SPACE, TO IMPROVE ACCESS AT ENTRYWAYS, TO SEEK AN ALTERNATIVE PLAYGROUND CLOSE BY, AND TO DIRECT STAFF TO CONSIDER SOME TYPE OF A MANAGEMENT PLAN. CHAIR ANDERSON SECONDED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ALL AYES. PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 41 Commissioner Musliner asked about the budget for a possible playground. Director Blank said that currently we are replacing three playgrounds, which we do on a 15 year cycle. There is no money budgeted for anything in Ferndale North in the current 5 -year plan. Director Blank said this issue will be on the Planning Commission's September 8 agenda. b. Survey and recommendation on ballroom rental pricing_ Matt Jensen introduced himself, and said he was a student at the U of M, doing his internship with the city. Matt did some research on ballroom rentals, banquet halls, and classrooms. Matt found many different rates being charged throughout the metro area. Rick Busch said Matt did a very good job and spent a lot of time gathering the data. Rick said he tried to do a composite of similar facilities that offered banquet rooms with a capacity of 250 or more. We can seat 350 at round tables in our new facility. We are looking at a range of $400 to $700 an evening. Rick is recommending, per a six hour period, a rate of $650 for residents to rent our banquet hall on a Friday or Saturday, $400 on Sundays and $250 on Monday through Thursday. Our facility is far superior to any others that were researched. Commissioner Thompson is concerned that our rates may be a little too low. Director Blank said in setting our fees, we set them compared to community facility rates as opposed to private banquet facilities. These rates would be reviewed annually, as we do with all facility rental rates. Commissioner Willegalle agrees with this practice of annually reviewing rates. Director Blank said we intend to talk to the Reserve about them possibly being the caterer. Commissioner Wahl asked if the police attendant is required. Rick said most communities do require it when alcohol is served. Security of some kind should be present. Rick has had conversations with Police Chief Gerdes and has learned that our police department prefers to have officers present in pairs. Councilmember Black asked about the $650 rate for residents and only $750 for non-residents. She thinks the non- resident is getting a better deal. Commissioner Thompson pointed out that residents can reserve it much further in advance than non-residents. Should non-residents pay more? Director Blank said our objective is to book often and book early. It would be in the city's best interest to have every Saturday and Sunday night booked all year. Maybe after the first year, non-residents could end up paying more. COMMISSIONER THOMPSON MOVED TO ACCEPT STAFF'S PROPOSED RENTAL RATES FOR RESIDENTS AND NON-RESIDENTS AND TO LEAVE CHARGE FOR SECURITY GUARD PENDING. COMMISSIONER WAHL SECONDED. Director Blank said there's going to be a lot of policies for this facility that will need to be adopted in the coming months, but we need to get this decided now, because people are calling about renting it for weddings next summer. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ALL AYES. 7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION None. 8. STAFF COMMUNICATION PRAC Minutes/August 1999 Page 42 Since the special meeting to discuss the comprehensive plan wasn't held in July, a second meeting will need to be scheduled for the month of August. Both the 25th and 26th are being considered. Once it's determined which night is better for more people, a notice will go out, or a call will be made informing each commissioner which night the meeting will be held. 9. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 10:55 p.m.