HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 10-10-1996Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
October 10, 1996
Page 43
Present: Chair Anderson, Commissioners Fiemann, Priebe, and Willegalle,
Commissioners Thompson and Wahl arrived later); Planning Commissioner
Bildsoe; staff Abel, Bisek, Blank and Sankey (City Manager Johnson arrived
later).
Absent: Commissioner Johnson
1. CALL TO ORDER
Chair Anderson called the meeting to order at 7:05 p.m. in the Mooney Lake
Conference Room.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Fiemann and seconded by Commissioner
Priebe to approve the minutes of the meeting as presented. The motion carried with
all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present.
b. Staff. Mary Bisek announced that the Art Fair was a success. Attendance was
about 1200, and the number of vendors and artists was up from last year. The
parent organization New Hope/Plymouth Athletic Association is disbanding.
However, the individual sports organizations are continuing to function as usual.
At some time in the future, the City may have to be more involved. The City will
be hosting an Open House on October 26 featuring many displays and activities
for visitors. Staff will be receiving software training in December for the new
department software. The new software contains a very strong scheduling
package which will be very helpful. There will also be a phone-in registration
option added in the future. It will be a lot of work to convert to the new system,
but it should be well worth while.
Commissioner Willegale mentioned that an artist is working on a model of the
log cabin. The life size reproduction is being constructed in Ely and will be
moved to Parkers Lake.
c. Others.
4. PAST COUNCIL ACTION
a. Maple Creek Project. Director Blank reported that a group in favor of installing a
basketball court in the Maple Creek Park had appeared at the Council meeting.
PRAC Minutes/October 1996
Page 44
Marion Barber spoke very eloquently and convincingly on the subject. Mary
Bisek added that he works with disadvantaged children. The Council is referring
the project back to PRAC. Director Blank believes he has a workable solution
which he will bring back to the Commission in November. Commissioner
Willegalle asked about this. Eric said it would be right in the middle of the park.
They would have to move two trees and move the trail, but it would be further
away from the homes and should be a good compromise. Chair Anderson
commented that the people in the neighborhood seemed to be most worried
about noise and attracting problems. The general feeling was that there
wouldn't be that many problem youth attracted to the basketball court, but that
the woods would be a more attractive feature. Eric said he would try to have it
staked out before the next meeting.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Ice arena complex. The project continues to progress. Director Blank said that
some bids have been awarded, some rejected, and some had no bidders. Next
Monday at 2:00 bids will be opened again. If the weather holds out for 14 more
days, the curb, gutter, and blacktop should be completed. This will really make
the weather less of a factor because equipment and workers can get in and out
of the project so much easier. It looks like an ice sheet will be started around
February 13, but March is the realistic opening date. Lifetime may be about one
month behind the ice arena in opening.
Director Blank said that staff members had also been discussing the issue of
naming the complex. He handed out a sample of a sign which could be erected
on
34th Avenue at the main entrance. The name would be "Plymouth/Lifetime
Recreational Center." The name over the door for the ice arena would be
Plymouth Ice Center". Lifetime Fitness would have their own sign. The
proposed activity building would be "Plymouth Activity Center." This would fall in
line with the Council's action of renaming the downtown Plymouth area
Plymouth City Center." Commissioner Willegalle commented that he liked the
plan, and Commissioner Priebe agreed. COMMISSIONER ANDERSON
MOVED TO CALL THE ICE ARENA PLYMOUTH ICE CENTER AND TO CALL
THE TOTAL PROJECT THE PLYMOUTH LIFETIME RECREATIONAL
CENTER. COMMISSIONER WILLEGALLE SECONDED THE MOTION. AYES
ALL.
b. West Medicine Lake Park update. Director Blank reported that the concrete
bridge arrived. The new road will open between November 1 and November 10.
Traffic will be diverted at that time. The old road will be milled off and seeded
over, and then Phase 1 will be complete. Phase 2 is out for bid. This includes
beach dredging, the pedestrian bridge over the creek, and removal of culverts.
This could start yet late this fall. Phase 3 will be discussed this winter. At that
time we will know how much money is available in the budget which can be
PRAC Minutes/October 1996
Page 45
spent on the finishing touches. According to an 1887 document, an Indian burial
ground may be under the old roadway. The State Archeologist and Indian
Affairs Council will do radar tests and soil testing to determine whether it still
exists. Sewer, a house, and the road have all gone through the area, so the
burial ground may not be there. If the testing does find it, we may have to
redesign a small part of the park.
Commissioner Priebe asked when the park would be operational. Director Blank
said it will still be under construction with the last phase next summer. There will
need to be fencing and signs around the construction area for safety and liability
concerns. Mary Bisek commented that the beach has not been officially open for
at least five years, although some individuals do swim there on their own. Eric
said that the rest of the project is relatively easy and should be completed by
next fall. The big issue is the burial mounds and how they will affect the plans.
Tim Flugaur, 12023 23rd Avenue N. He questioned why the footbridge needs to
go in and why the culverts need to be removed. He felt that since the DNR did
not allow the creek to be dredged for canoeing, the bridge was unnecessary.
We could just leave the culverts in place, which could serve as bridges for
pedestrian traffic. Director Blank stated that this design was approved by the
Council over a year ago. It will be an important feature for the park to be used
for fishing and foot traffic. Commissioner Fiemann asked Mr. Flugaur about his
reason for concern. Mr. Flugaur responded that he was against the park from
the beginning. He feels the cost is too high, and why take out the road to put in
a new bridge? He is also concerned about traffic, grading, losing trees, and the
affect of the walking paths on the wildlife areas. He is also concerned about
deer and plantings along the roadway and their affect on safety and visibility.
He has been attending the informational meetings. Chair Anderson pointed out
that this park represented about ten years of work and numerous public
meetings. Director Blank stated that the plan we are showing is a concept plan,
and it can still be changed to some degree. Forestry can listen to requests
regarding planting along the roadway. However, the park has all been approved
and is on its way.
Commissioner Fiemann asked if a historical marker could be placed at the site of
the burial mounds. Director Blank said that was possible, and he could meet
with the necessary agencies. Mary Bisek said that our Historical Society has
been discussing the installation of kiosks in the park which would highlight the
history of the area.
c. Open Spaces update. Director Blank reported that the Johnson Brothers land
purchase is on the Council agenda Wednesday, October 16. This purchase will
deplete the $2 million budget for open space acquisition. There are two parcels
left from the original plan yet to be purchased. The Council will have to decide
whether or not to budget money for this.
PRAC Minutes/October 1996
Page 46
d. Elm Creek Playfield update. The playfield has been seeded, the light poles are
going up, and work is substantially done for this fall. Teams will be kept off until
the spring of 1998. Bids on fencing and the building were rejected. We will wait
until January to rebid. Chair Anderson asked if the football stadium would be
built. Director Blank replied that the committee is working on it, but no decision
has been made. The School District is most concerned at the present time with
getting the building project completed on time. Commissioner Fiemann asked
how the bridge was coming. Eric said that it is moving along. The road is nearly
done, and the bridge should be completed next summer. Commissioner
Fiemann also asked about the parking lots. Eric said the large west parking lot
is complete. The southerly lot was about to be paved and should be finished
very soon.
Director Blank reported that City Forester Paul Buck had done a rice planting
with some high school students in some of the run-off ponds at the new high
school site. He had an Indian Medicine Man at the planting to do a blessing. It
was an enriching experience for all involved.
e. Senior Citizens needs analysis. Director Blank presented the Senior Citizen
Needs Study report to the commission. He explained that the Youth Sports Task
Force had met for about a year, when the seniors asked to get involved to have
their needs met, too. The City Council appointed a committee which consisted
of representatives from the Plymouth senior population, the Park and Recreation
Department, the Park and Recreation Advisory commission, Senior Community
Serves and School Districts 281 and 284. The community will see a rapid
growth in its senior population. Their health, transportation, housing, and food
needs are all of concern. Senior Community Services provides our part-time
Senior Coordinator, Sara Mittelstaedt. They are funded by United Way and by
the cities which participate. Several other cities in the area participate, too, and
it works well. For every dollar the City puts into it, we receive back $2 in
services.
The report shows what the seniors would like to see in a facility, including things
such as a 100 -cup coffee pot and a self-cleaning oven. They would like to have
programs scheduled Monday through Friday, 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. The
structure could be used for other programs and age groups at other times. Also,
the generations could be mixed in certain programs. Seniors love to mingle.
The budget should include a full time coordinator, plus a receptionist and a part
time clerical person. The seniors see the building as a multi -generational
building that they would use as their focal point.
Director Blank stated that the Youth Sports Task Force reviewed the report last
night and received it well. They suggested that the Council authorize some
preliminary work to develop costs and ideas. Commissioner Priebe commented
PRAC Minutes/October 1996
Page 47
that he liked the idea that the center could be heavily used by seniors, but also
be used by the entire community. Director Blank added that New Brighton has a
building called a "Family Center" which works much like this, although the name
gives it a little more limited focus. Commissioner Willegalle added that there
had been a suggestion that a second story be added to the building, and that
perhaps Lifetime Fitness would move their corporate offices there. They would
pay rent, which could help fund the operational costs. Commissioner Priebe
asked if the facility in Minnetonka was similar. Chair Anderson said that the
Minnetonka facility would be a good one to look at to aid in planning the
building. Commissioner Willegalle added that we should get the costs tied
down, and that doing two floors at once would be less expensive than adding
one later. Chair Anderson asked what type of activities would happen in the
building. Director Blank said they would consist of non -athletic activities such as
art classes, choirs, bands, etc. COMMISSIONER PRIEBE MOVED TO
FORWARD THE SENIOR CITIZENS FUTURE NEEDS STUDY TO THE
COUNCIL WITH A RECOMMENDATION THAT A STUDY BE DONE TO LOOK
AT USE NEEDS FOR CHILDREN AND FAMILIES. COMMISSIONER
WILLEGALLE SECONDED. AYES ALL.
Commissioner Willegalle noted that this study made use of data from State and
County agencies in its preparation. Planning Commissioner Bildsoe pointed out
that there is a proposal before the Planning Commission for an Elam Care
Community Living project with over 100 units for seniors. City Manager Johnson
added that a proposal just came for a senior housing project on Highway 55.
f. Continuing Golf Course discussion. Director Blank said that there was nothing
new to report on the golf courses, although we could possibly hire a consultant
in the future. Tim Flugauer asked about the issue. Eric said that the
Commission is trying to anticipate possible development of the three golf course
properties and would like to prevent the City from losing them all.
g. East Medicine Lake Regional Trail update. Director Blank has been working
with the Hennepin County Park District on this project. The real issues at this
point are focused on the south end of the lake. Commissioner Thompson asked
if any consensus had been reached at the meetings. Eric replied that in general,
they have agreed that a trail is needed, but the exact layout has not been
decided.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. 1997-2001 CIP. Director Blank stated that the only real change was on Elm
Creek Playfield which was changed from $100,000 to $265,000. Trail money in
1999 is earmarked for County Road 9 at the 494 Bridge. Birchview Elementary
has asked for $25,000, and Pilgrim Lane has asked for $15,000. Staff has a
recommendation to revise the school playground policy. The change says that
in no case would over 50% of the total capital cost, with a maximum of $25,000,
PRAC Minutes/October 1996
Page 48
be donated by the City. These schools are substituting for a neighborhood park
in the area. We would be spending 100% of the cost, or approximately $75,000
if the school wasn't there. The $25,000 amount is about 1/3 of the total cost of a
playground, which is equivalent to the old policy. A gym facility at Wayzata High
School is shown. A possible gym project at Armstrong High School has also
been discussed. Funding for the Activity Center is still fluid; several possibilities
exist. Director Blank said that the Commission needs to prioritize the projects at
this level of planning. The Council and financial planners would need to
determine funding later. Also, we must remember that once we build a capital
improvement, it becomes part of the operating budget the next year.
Commissioner Fiemann asked what our involvement is at West Lutheran High
School. Director Blank explained that we have added a baseball field upon
which we would have first priority during the summer and second priority during
the school year. Because of the work already completed by the school, we were
able to add the ball field for only $30,000. Commissioner Fiemann asked if it
was important to put updating of school playgrounds on the CIP. Eric stated that
he would prefer to wait until a project is requested. Commissioner Wahl asked if
any other parks needed updating. Eric said there were two shown right now
which needed updating due to safety issues or because they were worn out.
Commissioner Willegalle asked how we would shelter the land for the 10th
playfield if we don't show all the money for it, and when would we be addressing
it? Director Blank explained that the property would probably cost between
10,000 and $12,000 per acre for the 80 acres. The owner, Sherber, may be
willing to hold a contract for deed. A down payment could be paid in 1999.
Commissioner Wahl noticed that there was a discrepancy of $200,000 between
the total at the end of 1999 and the start of 2000. Director Blank agreed that
there seemed to be an error, and it would need to be checked out.
Commissioner Thompson expressed concern for the Baseball and Softball
Association on field development, especially the Ess land. She said they were
counting on this project. Director Blank responded that right now, working on the
old Wayzata High School and the Greenwood sites seemed to be the most
economical. An analysis of the number of teams anticipated could be done to
determine what types of fields are needed. The CIP could be adjusted a year
from now, adjusted now, or approved and passed on to the Council with a note
about this perceived weakness. Commissioner Fiemann stated that all of these
projects have such a high priority. He wants the Council to understand this.
Commissioner Thompson again expressed concern for the playfields. CHAIR
ANDERSON MOVED TO ACCEPT THE CIP AS SHOWN BUT THE COUNCIL
IS TO BE AWARE OF ITEMS A -F TO BE ATTACHED TO THE MOTION.
COMMISSIONER FIEMANN SECONDED. AYES ALL.
COMMISSIONER WILLEGALLE MOVED TO ACCEPT THE SCHOOL
PLAYGROUND IMPROVEMENT POLICY AS REVISED FOR NOVEMBER 1996.
COMMISSIONER WAHL SECONDED. AYES ALL.
PRAC Minutes/October 1996
Page 49
b. Review policies on ice arena. Bill Abel presented his reports on policies for the
ice arena.
1) Priority ranking. Bill suggested that the usage ranking be as follows: City
sponsored programs, High School hockey, Wayzata youth hockey, other
youth programs, Plymouth adult programs, other outside community youth
groups, private rentals. Director Blank said that this was pretty typical. Most
scheduling would have to work around high school games. Giving Wayzata
youth hockey priority over other youth hockey is in response to their
contribution to the project. They are also the largest association. We do
have to walk a fine line on this issue. We will have the option to schedule
open skating and skating lessons at reasonable times.
2) Ice rental rates. Bill suggested that the prime time rate would be $31.25 for
Y4 hour or $125 per hour. Non -prime rates would be $27.50 per Y4 hour or
110 per hour. Prime time is defined as 2:30-11:00 p.m. on schooldays and
7:30 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. on weekends and non -school days. Commissioner
Thompson asked if the difference between the rates was large enough. Bill
said that no matter what the difference, people still want the prime time.
Commissioner Willegalle asked what other arenas do. Bill said that we are
somewhat on the low end because Chanhassen is charging $140 (they have
only one sheet), Brooklyn Park is charging $135 and $110, and New Hope is
charging $135 and $100.
Commissioner Willegalle said that it had been his observation that the late night
times are not heavily used. Bill noted that a determination would have to be
made of whether it would be worth staying open late nights if usage was low.
He also added that daytime hours can work out very well with noon hockey
and mom & tot programs. Bill presented a chart of fees for various skate
sharpening and rental rates. He said that these rates are very reasonable for
our public. City Manger Johnson asked if sales tax is included. Bill said that
yes, it was. Commissioner Thompson recommended the fees be changed to
130 and $90. Bill pointed out that surrounding communities are using
higher rates than we are, and that $5 per hour is $20,000 per year. Planning
Commissioner Bildsoe wondered if the suggested rates would be the break
even point. Director Blank stated that it would be better than that. He also
said that we would have two ice sheets, which makes it much easier to cover
costs, and that we don't want to over -charge our citizens. Commissioner
Willegalle noted that there are a lot of new ice sheets in the area, which
means a lot of competition. Commissioner Wahl wondered how many hours
would go to Wayzata. Bill answered that they would like to have 2000, but
will probably get 1500.
Director Blank pointed out that the first year will be difficult because we are
missing the two busiest hockey months, January and February. City
PRAC Minutes/October 1996
Page 50
Manager Johnson wondered it we would show a loss in 1997. Bill said that
yes, it would probably be around $40,000-$60,000. Bill stated that it will take
about one year to smooth out. Commissioner Willegalle was sure that
Wayzata will say the rates are too high. Bill said that actually they had
commented that they sounded low. Chair Anderson suggested the prime rate
should be $130.
Commissioner Willegalle had seen some free standing sharpening machines that
people could use, and he wondered how Bill felt about these vending
machines. Bill said that we would always have someone on staff, and that he
had seen some problems with the sharpener machines. Commissioner Wahl
asked if concessions would be run by the City. Bill answered that yes they
would.
CHAIR ANDERSON MOVED THAT THE ICE RENTAL AND PRIORTY FACILITY
USAGE REPORT AND THE PUBLIC SKATING FEES BE ACCEPTED, BUT
THE PRIME TIME RATE WOULD BE CHANGED TO $130 INSTEAD OF
125. COMMISSIONER THOMPSON SECONDED. AYES ALL.
CHAIR ANDERSON MOVED THAT THE HOCKEY TOURNAMENT RENTAL
RATES BE ACCEPTED EXCEPT THAT THE RATE BE RAISED FROM $125
TO $130. COMMISSIONER THOMPSON SECONDED. AYES ALL.
3) Advertising policies. There are too many questions yet on advertising
policies. This will be studied and brought back to the Commission at a later
date.
c. Review draft program for low income individuals' access to Lifetime Fitness
Center. Mary Bisek presented her report on this issue. She said that we have a
system in place, using federal guidelines, for determining who qualifies for
assistance. She studied our history in 1995 and 1996 to see age ranges and
usage. Her concern is the adult ticket limit. Since childless adults and seniors
can apply for these tickets, and adults must accompany children to the facility,
we could run out of adult tickets. People will pay 1/3 of the daily fee. We could
use the income from this to fund the purchase of additional adult tickets if
necessary. She also suggested limiting people to four tickets per year. This is
just a guess on what will be necessary because of the unpredictability of
participation. She had consulted with LaDonna Hoye of Interfaith Outreach, who
had commented that people might be hesitant to use these tickets at first,
because of not have the right clothes, confidence, etc. Demand may grow
slowly, but it is very hard to predict. Senior Coordinator Sara Mittelstaedt
thought some of the seniors might be interested.
Commissioner Thompson asked what children under 13 would do at the facility.
Mary replied that there are gym activities, a leisure pool, and a child care area
PRAC Minutes/October 1996
Page 51
with activities. They could not use the weight area. Commissioner Willegalle
commented that Lifetime Fitness does promote more family activities than most
fitness centers. He thinks Mary's suggested plan is a good one which could be
adjusted later if necessary. Commissioner Thompson felt that a four ticket limit
per year was a good start. Mary commented that it may become necessary to
print an expiration date of about two weeks on the tickets so that the first people
in would not be able to wipe out the supply. Commissioner Wahl thought the
idea of an expiration date could be good, but perhaps it should be a month.
Commissioner Willegalle agreed. COMMISSIONER WAHL MOVED TO
APPROVE THE PROPOSAL ON LOW INCOME INDIVIDUALS' ACCESS TO
LIFETIME FITNESS WITH THE AMENDED EXPIRATION DATE OF 4 WEEKS
INSTEAD OF 2 WEEKS. COMMISSIONER WILLEGALLE SECONDED. AYES
ALL.
7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION
None.
8. STAFF COMMUNICATION
None.
9. ADJOURNMENT
The meeting adjourned at 9:36 p.m.