HomeMy WebLinkAboutPark and Recreation Advisory Commission Minutes 09-12-1996Minutes of the Park and Recreation Advisory Commission Meeting
September 12, 1996
Page 36
Present: Commissioners Johnson, Fiemann, Priebe, Wahl and Willegalle; (Chair Anderson
arrived later); staff Bisek, Blank and Pederson; Councilmember Wold
Absent: Commissioner Thompson
I. CALL TO ORDER
Vice Chair Wahl called the meeting to order at 7:35 p.m. in the Council Chambers.
2. APPROVAL OF MINUTES
A motion was made by Commissioner Priebe and seconded by Commissioner Willegalle to
approve the minutes of the July meeting as presented. The motion carried with all ayes.
3. VISITOR PRESENTATIONS
a. Athletic Associations. None were present.
b. Staff. Mary Bisek began her presentation by announcing that we had a safe beach
season, with no major accidents or injuries. The fall soccer program is underway, with
1,200 kids playing. The History Fest was successfid. Henry Willegalle was on the
committee. A planning meeting for next year has been held already. Our annual Art
Fair is Saturday, September 14, from 10-5, at Parkers Lake Park. Approximately 40
artists will display and sell their work. There will also be musical entertainment and
food vendors. Mary stated that she and Mark have been working on the northeast
neighborhood park project. Several inmates from Lino Lakes are also working on this
park project as part of a work release program. They are starting to constrict trails
and are clearing the site for the playground. Public Works is also helping with trails.
Staff is in the process of planning winter programs. We are once again facing a
shortage of after school space in both school districts. There has been a big expansion
in the child care program, and they are monopolizing gym time, cafeteria and multi-
purpose space. Commissioner Willegalle asked if the East Parkers Lake Improvement
Association could have a table in the pavilion during the Art Fair. Mary suggested that
he check with Karol Greupner to see if there would be room, because both the Seniors
and the Human Rights Commission are in the Pavilion this year.
Director Blank introduced Bill Abel, the ice arena manager. Bill stated that he was
from Willmar, and ran the ice arena there for 16 years. He is in the process now of
selecting ice resurfacers and is working with corporations on installation of
scoreboards. He stated that he is very excited to be here and said PRAC should be
proud of the work they did. Bill is working on building policies, such as proper
conduct when in the building. Commissioner Willegalle asked when reservations for
outside groups would be taken? Bill responded that we have started tentative
reservations already. We'll miss out this winter on major youth hockey reservations,
but we will be booking things like figure skating, hockey camps and other leagues.
PRAC Minutes/September 1996
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c. Others. See item 6a.
4. PAST COUNCIL ACTION
a. Council continues to award many contracts for the ice arena; walls, mechanical, etc.
b. Greenwood playground dedication ceremony is Friday, September 13.
c. Log cabin is under constriction in Ely and will be shipped to us between October
and October 15. Footings are going in next week.
5. UNFINISHED BUSINESS
a. Ice arena complex. This project is continuing to move forward. The constriction
manager reminded Director Blank that $3,000,000 worth of work is underground in
the form of utilities, footings, etc. This is in response to comments from the public
complaining it doesn't appear that much is happening at the site. Steel is scheduled to
arrive October 7. Large cranes will be visible then. The outdoor pool is 90% complete.
Director Blank talked about the identification sign that will be near the street. He
explained that our contract says the word Life Time must be in the title. Life Time
Fitness will be on the door over the Life Time entrance. We need a name over the
entrance door for the ice arena. PRAC can make a recommendation for the overall
name, too. Director Blank said that 90% of ice arenas are named "ice arena", and he is
not particularly fond of that. This facility is special. A list of names was distributed to
PRAC members for their consideration. Commissioner Wahl commented that the
initials from Plymouth Ice Garden spell PIG. Bill Abel was asked his opinion. He said
that he likes Plymouth Arena and Recreational Complex, which spells PARC. Director
Blank likes Plymouth Ice Park. Commissioner Priebe likes Plymouth Ice Center. A
suggestion for the overall name was Plymouth Life Time Recreation Complex.
COMMISSIONER FIEMANN MOVED TO CALL THE ICE ARENA PLYMOUTH
ICE PARK. THE MOTION DIED FOR LACK OF A SECOND. The Commission
wants to think about it some more and discuss it again in October.
b. West Medicine Lake Park update. Engineering met with the contractor on Monday. A
crane will be showing up September 13. Concrete abutments for the bridge will be
there Monday, September 16. The contractor says the road will be done by Oct. 26,
but we're telling the public November 15. The City has a permit to dredge the beach
now, remove culverts, and put in a walkway from the parking lot to the beach area.
c. Open space. Survey is done on Johnson Bros. parcel, which splits the parcel. Mr.
Stewart now wants to sell his parcel to the City for a reasonable price. The City
declined.
d. Elm Creek Playfield update. The irrigation system is in and includes 300 sprinkler
heads. Fine grading and seeding of the softball complex has been done. These fields
desperately need rain now, because there is no water to the irrigation system yet.
Going out for re -bids on building portion and fence work.
PRAC Minutes/September 1996
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e. Senior citizen needs analysis update. The senior task force will be meeting in the next
20 days to review the report.
f. Continue golf course discussion. Letters were sent to the individual golf course
owners thanking them for making presentations to PRAC and inviting them to meet
with staff regarding ways of cooperating in preserving golf in Plymouth. So far, there
has been no response to the invitation.
6. NEW BUSINESS
a. Maple Creek Park - location of hardcourt - Mark Peterson. Mark distributed copies of
park area layout to commissioners. He also had letters from residents indicating where
they wanted court or did not want court. Mark explained that letters were sent to
homeowners telling them about renovation of park and asking for their input. The play
area had to be enlarged due to safety standards, resulting in encroaching on existing
basketball court and picnic shelter. The residents wanted the playground to be where it
always was, leaving two options for the hardcourt; in the open grassy area or across
from the playground area. Commissioner Wahl asked Mark the size of the hardcourt?
Mark said 40 x 60. He added that the grassy area is quite large.
Rhonda Turgeon, 16205 25th Avenue N, is opposed to any basketball court in this
neighborhood park. Objects because it's a neighborhood park. She said friends in
Shoreview had trouble in their park when basketball courts were put in. Police had to
be called to ask people to leave after hours. She wondered how the police would
access this park and if they would keep coming back if necessary. Who's going to pick
up the garbage? Her husband has coached soccer for four years and says there isn't
enough space for holding soccer practices. She asked if this space could be used for
that instead? People have basketball hoops in their driveways, so she feels they are not
needed in the park. Just because there won't be lights, doesn't mean people won't be
there after the park is closed. She thinks vandalism will increase.
Subra, 2545 Weston Lane. His property borders the area in back of park. Doesn't
want basketball. His sons play, but they don't want it there. They have a hoop in their
driveway.
Jim Sanders, 2320 Yuma Lane. Their house is three blocks from Maple Creek. He
doesn't share the same concerns. The hardcourt is a common topic of conversation.
Not one person is in favor that he has talked to. Neighborhood does not want it. He
suggested that City staff listen to what the people are saying. Commissioner Wahl
asked if Mr. Sanders objects in general to a basketball court, or just in grassy area? He
said he objected to it entirely. Commissioner Priebe asked if basketball was there prior
to the park playground being replaced? And did it present a problem before? Mr.
Sanders responded that it was set up before, so that older kids would not be interested
in using it.
Patty Anderson, 16015 26th Avenue. Her house is 100 yards from basketball court.
She has lived there three years and has been a professional educator for many years.
PRAC Minutes/September 1996
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She stated that cult signs have been painted on the old basketball backboard in the
past. She picks up beer bottles whenever she walks her dog early in the morning as
well as broken glass. She hears kids in the park at night after closing hours and fears
that this will become a teen hangout. It's a very secluded area and no adults can see
this part of the park. Wildlife frequent this area now and she believes that the noise
will scare them away. She believes that the anarchy signs will continue if hardcourt
goes in. Councilmember Tim Wold serves on community policing committee and
encouraged her to call 911 if she hears anything out of the ordinary, explaining that it's
not just for emergencies. Patty is not concerned about soccer being played there, or
any other use of open grassy area. She is more concerned about who will hang out
there.
Bob Cobb, 2760 Zanzibar Lane. He lives in the second house from the west entrance
to the park and feels that this park is designed as a small neighborhood park and is not
suitable for hardcourt. He doesn't want midnight basketball there. He explained that
you can't put court near playground, either, because it's too close to people's
backyards.
Bill Legg, 2665 Weston Lane. He has lived by playground ever since it was first put in
and is now 30 feet from new playground. The old basketball court got used a lot. He
doesn't see how a car could get into area to shine its headlights on court, unless driven
through chains or on the trail, and you can't play in the dark. It doesn't matter to him
where the court is. He thinks a court should be there and that everyone should be able
to use it. Will not create any more problems if it's there.
Eileen Bohn, 16315 27th Place. Lived there eight years. City parks are not just for
select few. Old basketball court was not in good shape. She feels that when the City
plans its parks and programs, it ignores teens. She believes that the residents are overly
concerned with the small minority who drink and thinks that the kids in the
neighborhood are basically good and well behaved. We need someplace for them to go
and should not exclude them. With or without basketball, you could have problems. In
favor of court. Good opportunity for teens. Can get their dads out there to play. Girls
like to play basketball too, so put court in. She agrees, however, that grassy area is
secluded.
Tom Forester, 2430 Yuma Lane. He shared pictures of Oakwood Elementary School
hardcourt with commissioners and commented that there is another court at Parkers,
so there are other places nearby to play basketball. He had a list of police calls
concerning Oakwood Elem. school, specific to hardcourt, from January 1 to
September 3. These calls were mostly property damage, alcohol offenses, smoking,
starting fires, vehicle damage, etc. He requested that the City not create an
environment where crime takes place. Commissioner Johnson commented that teens
were not represented in the audience this evening. His teenage son says there is no
place for him to go. Mr. Forester said he has no problem with good kids, but these
parks don't always attract good kids. The neighborhood is largely made up of younger
kids who will not use the basketball court.
PRAC Minutes/September 1996
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Dave Howard, 2645 Weston Lane. Mr. Howard is opposed to grassy area court,
because it's a pristine, quiet spot. Historically, there has always been a hardcourt in the
park. He uses park five times a week. He said based on people's comments at the
meeting, he feels the neighborhood doesn't have a lot of faith in its teenagers. He
wants the court installed in a visible area and wants to use it himself.
Milton Bohn, 16315 27th Place, lives across from park. Mr. Bohn thinks basketball
court should be near playground. He feels that kids will congregate near the grassy
area regardless of whether or not there is a hardcourt there, because of seclusion.
Concerned about his neighbors more than for himself.
Gwenn Goblirsch, 2705 Weston Lane. She doesn't want hardcourt in her backyard.
Likes park the way it is now.
Chris Chiles, 16120 21 st Ave. Lives on southern end of Steeplechase. Her family uses
this park a lot. Kids are elementary age. She opposes basketball court in park. Her
boys are into biology and science and enjoy the wildlife they find in the park. Thinks
park is a real asset and would like it to remain natural.
Tim Stibblin, 2725 Weston Lane. Doesn't oppose a basketball court, but has a concern
about the possible sites, though. Is hesitant to keep putting up more tar and less grass.
Basketball is a loud game. Bouncing balls make a lot of noise. Kids at playground
don't make nearly the amount of noise that basketball makes.
Rich Heinrich, 2505 Yuma Lane. Mr. Heinrich says he knows his neighbors, and they
don't play basketball. He claimed that there are more adults than kids living in this
neighborhood. He wondered if there was a City policy stating that neighborhood parks
had to have a hardcourt? Commissioner Wahl responded that he doesn't think the
hardcourt belongs in the grassy area. Other PRAC members agreed.
COMMISSIONER WILLEGALLE MOVED TO DISCARD THE OPTION OF
PLACING THE HARDCOURT IN THE GRASSY AREA. COMMISSIONER
PRIEBE SECONDED THE MOTION. AYES ALL.
Mike Leonard, 2510 Yuma Lane. Read a letter from his neighbor, Russell Gallagher,
who could not attend. Doesn't want the hardcourt anywhere in the park.
Chris Chiles spoke again. She thinks that staff needs to do an assessment of other
options for where area teens can go to play sports.
Andy Polzin, 15925 27th Place, said there is a problem with this area being under
water sometimes. He thinks it will be a maintenance nightmare.
PRAC Minutes/September 1996
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Cheryl Polzin thanked the Commission for their recommendation to drop basketball
from the grassy area. She feels that the other proposed area is not a good option
either, because it's too close to houses.
Commissioner Wahl agreed that putting the basketball court near the playground was
not a viable option.
COMMISSIONER PRIEBE MADE A MOTION TO REMOVE THE
HARDCOURT FROM THE PARK COMPLETELY. COMMISSIONER FIEMANN
SECONDED. THE MOTION CARRIED WITH ALL AYES.
The Commission continued to discuss the issue, stating that basketball is a
questionable use of a small park. They feel that small parks are better suited for use by
young children. Commissioner Johnson stated that he wasn't hearing a lot of voices in
favor of the hardcourt. Commissioner Wahl agreed and said that this park didn't lend
itself to putting one in. Commissioner Fiemann agreed but said he feels there is a need
for activities for teens in the area, but this was not the place.
Councilmember Wold asked Director Blank to explain to residents the process that
follows this recommendation by PRAC. Director Blank said PRAC is an advisory
board and makes recommendations to the Council. He stated that this item will be
placed on the consent agenda for the Council with a denial recommendation. Council
will likely agree with PRAC.
A final comment made by a resident was for more trees to be planted with money
saved by not putting in the hardcourt.
b. 1997-2001 CIP. Director Blank explained the `96 projects that are underway or have
been completed.
In 1997, $225,000 has been allocated for Elm Creek Playfield. There currently are no
lights on baseball or soccer fields and there is no playground. Neighborhood
school/parks requesting financial assistance include Birchview, Sunset and Pilgrim
Lane. Director Blank explained that the City policy on contributions to school
playgrounds needs to be updated. Two neighborhood park playgrounds will need
80,000 each for replacement. The amphitheater needs to be lighted for safety reasons,
which is estimated at $25,000. $2.2 million is earmarked for the senior/activity center
addition to Life Time Fitness, and additional trails are proposed.
In 1998, trails, development of one neighborhood park, and a field house at Elm Creek
Playfield are proposed, Zachary Playfield needs to be upgraded for youth baseball, and
land needs to be acquired for the 10th playfield in northwest Plymouth, if population
growth warrants it.
In 1999, trails are proposed, as well as continuing payments for the 10th playfield.
PRAC Minutes/September 1996
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In 2000 and 2001, neighborhood park development is proposed, along with more
trails.
Director Blank then discussed some of the things that are not included in the CIP, such
as money for the Ess property development, a building in West Medicine Lake park, a
walkway of some kind over 494 and County Road 9, and some additional amenities in
the parks like sculptures, or fine art type items, etc.
Commissioner Fiemann asked about the house and land by Greenwood to be used for
soccer. Director Blank said he spoke to the Superintendent and told him to explore
purchasing this property and that we would consider a joint venture with the School
District. Commissioners then asked what kind of money was needed to add amenities
to the open space we purchased? Director Blank said we need a management plan for
the open space sites first, and that a year from now will perhaps have that in place.
Director Blank encouraged PRAC to think about items that were not included in the
CIP and let staff know what they are. The CIP will need PRAC approval in October.
Mary Bisek mentioned that golf was not included, either. Commissioner Priebe asked
staff to give PRAC a list of what's not included in the CIP. Director Blank stated that
he has fiends in the parks operating budget to study the golf course issue in 1997.
c. East Medicine Lake Regional trail update. Director Blank reported that 90-95% of
residents favor trail. Hoping to present a draft report to Council at first meeting in
October, which will go to park district board in late October. If all goes well, could
start constriction next year. Part of the road has already been changed to a one way.
7. COMMISSION PRESENTATION
None.
8. STAFF COMM[_]NICATION
Think of names for the ice arena for next month, and approve CIP. The seniors' request
for use of tennis courts at Parkers Lake will be discussed in January.
9. ADJOURN
The meeting adjourned at 9:45 p.m.