HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 06-19-1995 SpecialMINUTES
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
JUNE 199 1995
A special meeting of the Plymouth City Council was called to order by Mayor Tierney at
7:05 p.m. in the Council Chambers of the City Center, 3400 Plymouth Blvd., on June 19,
1995.
COUNCIL PRESENT: Mayor Tierney; Councilmembers Wold, Lymangood, Helliwell,
Granath, and Edson.
ABSENT: Councilmember Anderson.
PLANNING COMMISSION PRESENT: Commissioners Spigner, Black, Preus, and
Ribbe.
ABSENT: Chairperson Stulberg; Commissioners Oja and Stimson.
STAFF PRESENT: City Manager Johnson, Assistant Manager Lueckert, Community
Development Director Hurlburt, Planning Supervisor Senness, Public Safety Director
Gerdes, Finance Director Hahn, Public Works Director Moore, and City Clerk Ahrens.
ITEM 1 DOWNTOWN PLYMOUTH PLANNING EFFORTS
Community Development Director Hurlburt explained that a consultant was hired
to assist with planning efforts for Downtown Plymouth. She introduced the
consultants - Michael Schroeder, Hoisington Koegler Group, Inc., and Barry
Pettit, Meyer Scherer and Rockcastle, Ltd.
Mr. Schroeder distributed information from the two previous meetings on
Downtown Plymouth planning, as well as a draft concept plan. The basis of this
process is community participation. The ideas for Downtown Plymouth have been
formulated, and ultimately a set of design guidelines will be developed. The
consultant's work will be completed in about a month, and then the City staff will
complete the needed zoning ordinance amendments.
Mr. Schroeder explained the three concepts currently under consideration. The
concepts all include pulling the buildings toward the street. The first concept links
center open space with trails. The second concept includes pedestrian -oriented
streets along 35th, 36th and 37th Avenues. The third concept focuses on public
open spaces near the street and with the pedestrian greenway moved between and
around buildings to loop through the downtown area.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 2
He said that several factors must be balanced to make the entire site work. The
boundaries and edges are defined with the trees near the Sugar Hills development
and the amphitheater creating a natural buffer, with the distinct boundary of
office/commercial use inside the buffer. He believes that the street grid should be
more prominently defined, with Vicksburg Lane as the main thoroughfare.
Community oriented elements can also be linked. There may be a need to identify
36th Avenue differently, and a full access intersection at 35th Avenue and
Vicksburg Lane may be desirable. He said that consideration must be given to
parking ramps or structures that will be needed in the 75 acre area, including how
uses could share parking. For example, an office building could use certain
parking during the day, with an entertainment business using the same parking area
in the evening.
Mr. Schroeder said there are three focal sites for the downtown: County Road 9
and Vicksburg Lane; Plymouth Blvd. and 36th Avenue; and Vicksburg Lane and
Highway 55. These are critical sites for significant structures that will provide a
focal point for the downtown.
Mr. Schroeder explained that many people preferred that park -like open space be
included in the downtown area, and those areas are proposed for NURP pond
and/or natural amenities. It would be desirable to have every area of downtown
have direct access to trails: There is also the need to connect the parking areas
with the commercial and public uses. He said that the option of having retail on
the ground level with apartments on the second level was investigated. However,
the apartments would view the street or the parking lot.
Mr. Pettit described the key vehicular systems in the area, and noted that Highway
55 has no direct access to the site. Vicksburg Lane is the collector that brings
traffic to and from the site. It is a wide road that will have increased traffic in the
future. He said that vegetation on the residential property is quite thick and would
be retained as a buffer. He said that wide sidewalks, on -street parallel parking, and
flat roofs on the buildings would create a traditional downtown atmosphere.
Mr. Pettit said that the edge of Plymouth Creek Park should be deAned, perhaps by
a series of masonry columns with periodic openings into the park. He suggested
that it will be better to develop the downtown using urban, man-made concepts,
than to try to make it look natural. He said that the existing buildings in the area
need to be incorporated into the overall plan. For example, where existing
buildings are set back from the street edge, some type of architectural form or
landscaping could be used to redefine the edge of the building at the street.
Mr. Pettit stated that the City of Wayzata uses a Design Review Board to assure
compliance with design guidelines. This has had some success. Other cities have
specified certain materials. He said that the ground level spaces need to be
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 3
designed as evolutionary space so that the use could change according to the
market. For example, a space could change from office to retail. He said that
some taller buildings are anticipated in this area. Mr. Pettit stated that
clock/towers are a vogue downtown concept that he recommended be avoided.
Mr. Schroeder clarified that the taller buildings (3-4 stories) would probably be
near the south edge of the downtown and at the north end near Vicksburg Lane.
A resident asked what percentage of the downtown area would be proposed as
open space.
Mr. Schroeder estimated that perhaps 15 to 20 percent of the area south of the
existing CUB Store would be open space.
A resident expressed concerns that the rear of the buildings in Downtown
Plymouth would face the residential area.
Mr. Schroeder stated this would not be the "rear" side of the building - just
another side of the building. He said that utility/service/trash functions on the site
would not take place toward the residential properties, but rather on the interior of
the buildings. He noted that the Centennial Lakes development has no pylon
signage and only limited signage on the side/rear of the buildings.
A resident stated that the buffer between the residential area and downtown area is
deciduous and lighting could be a problem in the winter months.
Mr. Schroeder suggested that a lumination standard could be established. Also,
many of the businesses have dual entrances, so there is no real "rear" side of the
buildings.
A resident stated that large trucks for deliveries and refuse collection will have to
come down Vicksburg Lane and on 37th Avenue to get to the area. He also asked
who will govern the rules and regulations for this area. He noted that there are
maintenance issues, such as large potholes, at some of the businesses.
Mr. Pettit responded that regardless of whether a plan for Downtown Plymouth is
adopted, trash pickup and deliveries will be off of Vicksburg Lane to serve this
area. He stated that it is proposed that the City will develop Zoning Ordinance
standards to ensure compliance with the Downtown Plymouth plan.
Joe Domagala stated that some owners of existing businesses in Downtown
Plymouth are unsure of the future of this area. Maintenance and improvements
have been delayed at some businesses until the plan is known.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 4
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated that the maintenance problem is
not unique to Plymouth or to this commercial area. The best way to ensure that
buildings are maintained is to find ways to make the businesses economically
viable.
A resident expressed concern that under the proposed plans, 35th Avenue would
be extended to Vicksburg Lane. She is concerned that this will add traffic to this
intersection which will be directly across from the Sugar Hills entrance. She
would prefer that Plymouth Blvd. serve as the main road, rather than Vicksburg
Lane.
Mr. Schroeder stated that regardless of whether a plan for downtown is adopted,
Vicksburg Lane will be the more heavily used road because it extends to other
areas. Plymouth Blvd. only runs between Vicksburg Lane and Highway 55. He
said that some of the traffic could enter Vicksburg Lane from 36th Avenue which
would not be directly across from the entrance to Sugar Hills.
A resident suggested that an evergreen buffer along the west side of Vicksburg
Lane be considered.
Planning Commissioner Preus stated that there is a fairly large amount of
public/community use space included in the downtown plans. He asked if that
space is proposed to be publicly owned by the City.
Mr. Schroeder responded that the heart of the downtown should be community -
oriented uses; however, that doesn't preclude a private or public/private use such
as a health club or community center.
Mayor Tierney asked what is proposed across from the senior housing at 37th
Avenue and Plymouth Blvd.
Mr. Schroeder stated that the plan suggests leaving the existing amphitheater,
along with the entrance to the park.
A resident asked about the timetable for development of the plan.
Mr. Schroeder stated the consultants hope to complete their work during July.
The City will then begin revision of the Zoning Ordinance to incorporate the
downtown standards.
An audience member asked if the various land owners of small parcels along
Highway 55 were considered in developing the plan.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 5
Mr. Schroeder responded that the consultants are aware there are smaller,
individually owned parcels along Highway 55. The plan proposes to aggregate the
parcels to get a higher intensity of use. He noted that the intense uses can occur
along Highway 55 without creating problems for adjacent neighbors.
A resident asked where traffic control devices are proposed to be installed. A
question was also asked about the speed limit.
Mr. Schroeder stated that it unknown at this time. The land uses must be
determined in order to study the warrants for traffic signals. The traffic study
work is not included under this consultant's contract for developing the downtown
plan. He also said that having the buildings moved up to the street and on -street
parking will slow traffic.
A resident asked what type of concept plan the consultant is trying to achieve.
Mr. Schroeder stated the consultant is working to develop a plan individualized for
Plymouth. They want to allow for individual expression in building construction,
but fitting an overall pattern.
A resident asked when construction of the entire plan is anticipated.
Director Hurlburt stated that ultimate construction of the complete plan could take
40 to 50 years. The City is not in control of how fast the market moves. She
stated that within the next month, the plan will be finalized. The City will be
revising all of its commercial/industrial zoning classifications by the end of 1995.
Also, the Council is in control of what happens to the five acre parcel at Vicksburg
Lane and Highway 55.
Discussion was held on the need for transition between land uses. Mr. Schroeder
stated that the County Road 9 and Vicksburg Lane area has great potential for
retail. Mr. Pettit added that Vicksburg Lane serves as a good transition between
the retail and the residential area.
Community Development Director Hurlburt noted that all property south of
County Road 9 between Highway 55 and Plymouth Blvd. has been zoned for
commercial use for about 20 years.
A resident asked why the downtown has taken so long to develop.
Director Hurlburt said that commercial/retail uses follow the people. As the City
is developing more to the north and west, there is greater demand for services and
interest has increased in this area.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 6
Joe Domagala explained the history of the downtown Plymouth area.
Councilmember Lymangood stated that the City needs to move forward on this
issue. He requested that an accurate map of the Downtown Plymouth area be
prepared that includes the property currently owned by the City, as well as all
other existing businesses.
A resident expressed concern about the effect on property values in Sugar Hills
resulting from the development of this area.
Councilmember Lymangood stated that increased development is the best way to
generate revenue.
A resident stated that there appears to be an emphasis on office sites in the
proposed plans. The former PUD included many office sites that the market did
not demand.
Mr. Schroeder stated that the consultant does not have an accurate gauge of the
current office market. The commercial parcels have been designated as
retail/office at this point in the plan.
Councilmember Edson stated that the City Council authorized this study in order
to develop the plan. He said the area has historically been zoned for commercial
use. The question is not "should the area be commercial?", but rather "How
should this commercial area be developed?" He said that impacts on the
surrounding properties need to be considered because a good transition is
desirable. However, this is the geographic center of the City and is the appropriate
location for community -centered uses.
A resident expressed concern that the project be successful and that the area not be
left with vacant properties. She asked if this was considered in planning the type
of development desired.
Director Hurlburt said there is no guarantee on the success of business. Plymouth
is a growing community and there are a small number of retail sites remaining in
the City which would tend to make this a successful business location. She said
that one element of this study will be to check with a market consultant to verify
that the proposed plan is realistic from a market perspective.
Mr. Pettit added that the concept of allowing the second evolution of a building is
important. Flexibility in zoning and building type is needed to accommodate
changes in land uses to accommodate the current market.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 7
In response to a question by Mayor Tierney, Mr. Schroeder stated that some type
of entry sign/marker is proposed at Plymouth Blvd. and Highway 55.
Mayor Tierney stated that this may be a nice area for a fountain or pond. She said
that there was previous discussion of the possibility of having small businesses
along the street in front of the CUB property.
Mr. Schroeder stated that could still be possible.
In response to a resident question, Public Works Director Moore stated that there
is not sufficient land for construction of a cloverleaf access at Vicksburg Lane and
Highway 55. Also, there is not enough traffic projected at this intersection to
justify the need for a cloverleaf intersection.
A resident asked if the intense uses in this area could cause congested traffic.
Director Moore stated that Vicksburg Lane, 36th Avenue, 37th Avenue, County
Road 9, and Plymouth Blvd., have been built to handle very intense traffic from the
uses proposed in the area. He added that this development could be an asset to the
Sugar Hills residents. Many people would like to live near an attractive downtown
area.
A resident asked if this commercial area is needed, given that Rockford Road Plaza
is only two miles away.
Mr. Schroeder responded that this area would function as a neighborhood center,
with elements that draw people from further away. The upcoming market
perspective will also address this issue. Mr. Schroeder thanked residents for their
support and criticism of the plan.
Councilmember Lymangood stated that, on balance, there may be too much green
space near the Plymouth Creek Park site. He said this may be a good place for a
community facility.
Mr. Schroeder stated that the larger open spaces allow more intensive use of the
private parcels. The open spaces provide areas for required ponding.
Planning Commissioner Preus said he generally likes the plan, believes this has
been a good process, and is optimistic that the City is moving forward.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 8
ITEM 2 CITY COMPUTER SYSTEM
Councilmember Wold stated that he generally concurs with the staff
recommendations relating to the City computer system; however, he would like to
discuss several items.
MOTION was made by Councilmember Wold, seconded by Councilmember
Granath, to move discussion of the City Computer System to the end of the
agenda.
Motion carried, six ayes.
ITEM 3 PRIVATE STREETS
Manager Johnson stated that Councilmember Anderson requested that the issue of
private streets be considered. The City has received a petition from the Cimarron
East development requesting review of issues relating to private streets.
Assistant Manager Lueckert reviewed the staff report which suggests a conceptual
plan for the inclusion of private streets into Plymouth's street system.
Councilmember Edson explained that the main concern is street maintenance and
reconstruction. Residents who live on a private street pay the same tax rate as
others in the City, but do not get street maintenance or reconstruction provided by
the City.
Assistant City Manager Lueckert stated that the street reconstruction program is a
definable portion of the City's levy. Property owners could be given an assessment
credit for the street reconstruction levy from the time it was imposed. Current
property owners could also be given a credit for general street maintenance
services such as sweeping and plowing.
Manager Johnson stated there are many arguments for and against this issue. The
City does not own any of the private streets, so why should all of the taxpayers of
the City pay an additional amount in order for the City to take over the street? On
the other hand, what if a lack of public investment in private streets leads to run-
down neighborhoods?
Mayor Tierney stated that if a street remains in private ownership, the City could
not ensure that any funds provided to the neighborhood would be spent on street
reconstruction.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 9
Manager Johnson stated that the concept plan is predicated on the affected private
streets becoming public streets.
Mayor Tierney noted that the private streets were constructed to a different
standard and narrower width. There may be concerns accepting a private street
into the City's system.
Manager Johnson stated that staff needs to know if the Council is interested in
pursuing the concept plan. He said that the issues of cost sharing and procedural
issues like road widths, special assessments, and easements could be further
discussed.
Councilmember Helliwell recalled that about four years ago, she served on a
Private Street Task Force. She said the group toured all private streets in the City.
The consensus at that time was that if a private street was brought up to the City
standard, then the City would accept it into the public street system. However,
some private streets were in such disrepair that it would deplete the City's street
reconstruction budget to bring them up to standards. She said that another issue is
that it is very difficult to determine where the driveway ends and the private street
begins. Some of the private streets appear to be parking areas, and a concern with
short driveways is snow plowing and storage.
Public Works Director Moore explained that there are many private streets
throughout the City. The private streets in the following subdivisions are
considered very similar to public streets, with a defined street and driveway area:
Plymouth Creek, Plymouth Hills 3, Cimarron East, Chelsea Woods, Cimarron
Ponds, R.L.S. 684, Mission Ponds 1 and 2, and Fox Forest 2. He said that street
maintenance would be more difficult on other private streets in the City.
Councilmember Lymangood said that since 1988, the City has been levying a
portion of the general tax levy specifically for the street reconstruction program.
He asked if there was a way to reduce the amount of the levy for people owning
property on a private street.
Manager Johnson stated that reducing the levy in this way is not currently allowed
under Minnesota law.
Councilmember Edson stated that residents on private streets have been paying an
amount for street maintenance and reconstruction since 1988. They are paying for
services they don't receive.
Discussion was held on whether this situation is different than residents who pay a
portion of their tax levy for park programs, but never use the parks or participate
in recreation programs. Or, if it is different than residents who purchase homes
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 10
with sump pumps erroneously connected to the sanitary sewer. Residents have the
option of purchasing a home in that condition, just as a resident has the option of
purchasing a home on a private street.
Manager Johnson suggested that the Council could distinguish between the tax
levy amount for capital infrastructure reserve fund and the amount for street
maintenance. He said that the street infrastructure fund is designed to provide for
reconstruction of every street in the City over a certain period of time.
Councilmember Edson stated that one consideration in the City taking over
maintenance of private streets is the high cost of maintaining substandard streets.
The snowplows cannot do normal cul-de-sacs and special equipment may be
needed to maintain even narrower streets.
Manager Johnson said that one alternative is to contract with the companies
currently doing the work for difficult private street locations.
Harold Theiste represented Cimarron East. He said that Cimarron East contacted
staffregarding the need for street maintenance. The association is proposing to do
the work, but did not want to go ahead if there was a possibility of the City taking
over the streets or having special reconstruction requirements. He said there are
economies of scale in having the City do the work. Mr. Theiste said the City
maintains the major road through this neighborhood - 19th Avenue - and the
association contracts with a plowing service to maintain the cul-de-sacs off of 19th
Avenue.
Mayor Tierney asked if the association has been collecting money for
reconstruction of the private streets, and why private streets were constructed in
this subdivision.
Mr. Theiste said the developer made the decision to construct private streets. The
association has money for street reconstruction.
Councilmember Helliwell noted that the initial property owners receive the benefit
in cost savings of the less expensive private street construction.
Ken Sandsted stated he is one of the original owners in Cimarron East. Cimarron
East has a turnover of about 15 units per year and many of these units have
increased in value. He said the association has tried to maintain the private streets,
but there are springs in the area which create water flow complications in the cul-
de-sacs due to the way the streets were surveyed and constructed.
Councilmember Wold asked if the Cimarron East association would be interested
in the City taking over the private street if it were brought up to City standards.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 11
Mr. Sandsted stated that Cimarron East would be interested in considering that
option. He stated that the development has concrete curbs in place so the streets
could not be widened.
Public Works Director Moore stated that in most of the private street areas, the
street width cannot be changed. He noted that in portions of Chelsea Woods,
there is no concrete curb and gutter. Typically, the developers build private streets
because there is no property line setback requirement.
Councilmember Edson suggested that a Council Subcommittee be established to
review this issue. The Subcommittee could consider the option of accepting
private streets into the City system if the street had a 10 or 15 year life remaining.
MOTION was made by Councilmember Edson, seconded by Mayor Tierney, to
establish a Private Street Subcommittee of Councilmembers Edson, Anderson, and
Wold to consider the issue and make a recommendation to the full Council within
60 days.
Councilmember Helliwell stated the Subcommittee concept is a fine idea and
suggested that the group tour all of the private streets in the City.
Motion carried, five ayes; Lymangood nay.
A resident from the Mission Ponds Homeowner Association stated that they have
contracted with the City to sealcoat their private streets. He asked if they should
wait for the results of the Subcommittee or move ahead with the work.
Public Works Director Moore recommended that they continue with the work.
Councilmember Lymangood stated that staff is recommending they do the work
because if the City takes over maintenance of any private streets, the City would
want to ensure that the streets are in good condition.
ITEM 2 CITY COMPUTER SYSTEM
Stan Birnbaum, IMS Manager, stated that several items will be considered at the
June 20 regular Council meeting regarding the City's computer system. He
summarized the recommended actions: 1) Replace Unisys equipment at a cost of
281,000; 2) Join LOGIS as an associate member to purchase GIS related
services; 3) Upgrade existing server and add a second server at a cost of $70,300,
and 4) Issue a request for proposals to upgrade the physical network at a cost of
25,000. He described the current progress on establishing a systems migration
work plan, as well as connecting the network to the Internet.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 12
In response to questions by Mayor Tierney, Manager Birnbaum reviewed the
available alternatives outlined in the staff report. He said that the Unisys
equipment replacement is proposed in order to save $30,000 over 30 months. He
explained that LOGIS requires the City to join as an associate member in order to
purchase limited services on a per service basis. There would be no commitment
or overhead, and the City can cancel its agreement with LOGIS at any time.
Councilmember Wold noted that there would be significant maintenance cost
savings with the Unisys replacement. He explained that there is difficulty in finding
parts and people trained to repair the older equipment. He noted that there are
eight major software systems on the existing Unisys system. He asked how the
transition would occur.
IMS Manager Birnbaum explained the proposed timetable. Rather than changing
each system consecutively, some will be done concurrently. The work plan
indicates that significant attention will be given to the financial based systems
during 1996 and to the geographic systems during 1997. He said that the
proposed timetable is a best -case scenario. There are many things that could make
the work plan take longer. More data is needed to make firm time commitments.
Assistant Manager Lueckert stated that it will take a great deal of organizational
energy to get this major conversion accomplished. This project needs to be
balanced with everything else that needs to be done.
Councilmember Wold stated that he is aware of the tradeoffs. If the timeline is
shortened, more stress is placed on the system and the risks are higher. He asked
how much risk has been taken with the proposed schedule.
Manager Birnbaum stated that there is a balance in terms of risk, time, and dollars.
If the time is shortened, the result is more risk and greater dollars. He believes the
30 month timetable is aggressive and a risk that the City can manage. He added
that the 30 month timetable is not without risk, and a 48 month timetable would
have less risk.
In response to a question by Councilmember Granath, Manager Birnbaum
explained that groupware products will be evaluated.
Councilmember Granath stated that the City has accomplished a lot internally, but
he would like e-mail capability for the City Council. He feels that the Council and
the public are getting left behind. He would like to exchange e-mail with the City
Manager and citizens, and believes that citizens should have on-line access to
important City information. He believes that the size of the council packets could
be decreased while increasing the amount of information provided.
Special Council Meeting
June 19, 1995
Page 13
Councilmember Helliwell stated that is a fine idea, but she would not want to
shortchange information provided by other means.
Manager Johnson explained that cities usually start with simple information on e-
mail, such as the council agendas, meeting dates, events, etc., and then move to
more complex information.
Finance Director Hahn stated that this proposed series of expenditures is only the
beginning. There will be major dollar expenditures coming up in the next few
years relating to the computer system. He said the computer reserve is currently
over $1 million. That is enough money to get through the next 30 months. The
1997 budget will propose funds to again start building that reserve.
Councilmember Wold asked if a standard suite of software has been identified that
all employees can expect to have on their computers.
Manager Birnbaum stated there is good success standardizing on the same tool
software. He hopes to have the same versions of software available to all users.
Some of these costs, such as version control, will be proposed in the 1996
operating budget.
Councilmember Lymangood summarized that the Council appears to have no
objections to the staff recommendations relating to the City computer system to be
formally considered on June 20.
The meeting was adjourned at 10:15 p.m.
rie F.Ahrens
City Clerk