HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 05-24-1995 SpecialMINUTES
SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING
MAY 249 1995
A special meeting of the Plymouth City Council was called to order by Mayor Tierney at 5:42
p.m. in the Council Chambers of the City Center, 3400 Plymouth Blvd., on May 24, 1995.
PRESENT: Mayor Tierney; Councilmembers Lymangood, Edson, Granath, Wold, Helliwell.
Councilmember Anderson arrived at 6:00 p.m. Councilmember Edson left the meeting after
agenda Item 4.
ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: City Manager Johnson, Assistant Manager Lueckert, City Engineer
Faulkner, Community Development Director Hurlburt, Public Safety Director Gerdes, Finance
Director Hahn, Park and Recreation Director Blank, City Forester Buck, Executive Secretary
McMillin and Administration Senior Clerk Typist Hoffman.
ITEM 1 ELECTION RESULTS CANVASSING
MOTION was made by Councilmember Wold, seconded by Councilmember Helliwell, to
adopt RESOLUTION 95-304 CERTIFYING RESULTS OF MAY 23, 1995
SPECIAL CITY ELECTION.
Councilmember Lymangood stated there was a good turnout for the election. The number
of voters was greater than the turnout for the At -Large Council seat in the last City
election.
Councilmember Wold called the result "a mandate" to the Council. He thanked everyone
for their efforts in support of the bond issue.
Motion carried, six ayes, Anderson absent.
ITEM 2 ELM CREEK CLUSTER PLANNING
City Manager Johnson provided an update on the scope of cluster planning with the
Metropolitan Council and the cities of Maple Grove, Brooklyn Park, and Medina that has
occurred since February. The scope of the planning has been completed and work on the
forecasts for growth and residential development are now underway. He said that forecast
work done by Plymouth suggests the number of new developments is growing faster than
previously thought, and faster than forecast by the Metropolitan Council staff. He said
that initially, the Metropolitan Council recommended housing levels the City does not
think are achievable due to allowances for wetlands, parks, schools, roads and other
features.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 2
Manager Johnson explained that this cluster planning relates to the City's plans for
northwest Plymouth. By following the cooperative process used in the Elm Creek Cluster
Planning, the City will avoid some duplication of locally generated planning efforts. That
will give the City several workable alternatives in the future, but not so specific as a formal
land use map classifying every piece of land. He said that there are discussions among the
northwestern cities about affordable housing. He found areas of agreement with the
Metropolitan Council's memo on affordable housing, but noted that housing may still be a
difficult issue to address.
Councilmember Granath asked about differences of housing goals between the
Metropolitan Council memo and those offered by Plymouth Housing Supervisor Ed
Goldsmith in a staff position report.
Community Development Director Hurlburt said the Plymouth staff position report was
consistent with a position held in Maple Grove's agreement on housing goals.
Councilmember Granath asked about housing density figures from the Metropolitan
Council memo versus those in the Plymouth staff report. He believed that the home price
ranges used by the Metropolitan Council may not be historically accurate, but the
Metropolitan Council memo recommendations do not appear to be far from what the City
is offering.
City Manager Johnson said it depends on the phrasing of the final agreement. He said the
City can't control the housing market rates and increases in development of more
expensive homes.
Community Development Director Hurlburt said that she had reviewed notes of a meeting
between Metropolitan Council staff and City staff. The comments inserted by the
Metropolitan Council indicate that their staff is aware that housing costs are higher in
Plymouth than in many other areas.
Mayor Tierney stated that the marketplace demand for apartments was not significant in
the early 1990's, but there was high demand for single family residential. She said that the
Comprehensive Plan was down -sized over time as well. She said the cluster plan may just
be down -sized to meet the housing demand.
Councilmember Granath stated that the matter of housing goals is an important issue and
should be submitted to the City Council for action - not just wait for a mandate to be
issued by the Metropolitan Council.
City Manager Johnson said the City wants to learn from the Metropolitan Council what
would be considered reasonably acceptable levels. Then staff can set conditions for
diverse affordable housing.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 3
Councilmember Edson said he is also an HRA Commissioner. Some of the percentages in
the City staff report concern him. He is not so concerned if the Metropolitan Council calls
its figures "guidelines". He believes the housing density rates are unrealistically high
without significant involvement by government. He suggested that the Metropolitan
Council provide the City with suggested guides relating to location, and noted that there
could be conflict if housing ranges and levels are mandated by the Metropolitan Council.
He believes that the market and business should drive the development of housing. He
believes that the housing market value increases probably relate to the 1986 Tax Act,
which eliminated incentives to build residential structures. He warned that the Council
needs to be careful not to agree to things that should be outside of its jurisdiction and
control.
Councilmember Anderson arrived at 6:00 p.m.
MOTION was made by Councilmember Wold, seconded by Councilmember
Lymangood, to table the issue of cluster planning until later in the meeting since another
matter was scheduled to be heard at 6:00 p.m.
Motion carried, seven ayes.
ITEM 4 ARMSTRONG HIGH SCHOOL TREE RESTORATION
City Manager Johnson summarized events relating to the removal of trees at the
Armstrong High School athletic field construction site, and subsequent meetings with
neighbors and developers. He also noted that a meeting among neighbors of the school
took place on May 22 to review alternate site plans. The biggest change in the proposed
site plan is to move the practice field 65 feet north of the original plan location. This
would spare the hill, provide more area for planting, move the practice field farther from
the tree area, and allow area to extend the berm to the west. The practice field would be
located farther from residences in the revised site plan.
Manager Johnson said there will be considerable enhancement of the forestation plan.
There will be more trees on the site, particularly around the nurp pond. He said that
neighbors requested 7 inch diameter trees, rather than 3-4 inch diameter trees. According
to City Forester Buck, larger trees have a lower chance for survival because they require
mechanical assistance in planting which detroys the undergrowth.
Manager Johnson also talked about project management issues and safety concerns. He
said that the eight points included in the City's proposed resolution was a plan that should
be in place by the first home football game in the fall of 1995. He said that supervision of
the project, further supervision when perimeter work is done, and issues of litter pick-up
and twice yearly cleanup dates have been addressed. This approach was much better
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 4
received by all parties than early plans, and much progress has been on issues relating to
this project.
Councilmember Lymangood was thanked for his work on the meetings on this issue.
Councilmember Helliwell expressed discomfort with Condition 7 of the resolution, which
addresses site supervision and the presence of a foreman on the project site. She asked
who would be in charge of the project.
City Manager Johnson said Business Manager Dahle has accepted responsibility for the
overall project. Mr. Dahle does not have construction experience but uses a responsible,
direct approach with engineers, architects, and contractors.
Councilmember Helliwell asked about the chain of command on the project site.
Mr. Dahle, School District 281 Business Manager, introduced Jay Palmer of the Anderson
and Johnson engineering firm, who developed the plan. Mr. Dahle said the on-site
foreman will report directly to him on all problems and concerns.
Mr. Palmer said he will be on the site daily when work is going on in the peripheral area.
He will represent the owner in communications with the contractor.
Mayor Tierney asked for comments from the audience.
Linda Oja, 10415 34th Avenue North, asked whether there will be lights on the practice
field.
Mr. Palmer responded "no".
Mayor Tierney asked if there was general agreement on the proposed site plan changes.
Don Johnson, 10725 34th Avenue North, thanked City officials for the opportunity to
express residents' concerns to the engineering firm and to the school district.
Kerry Brekke, 10830 34th Avenue North, thanked Councilmember Lymangood for
facilitating the negotiation process. She asked about having a city tree preservation
policy.
Mayor Tierney explained that an update to the present tree preservation policy is being
developed.
City Manager Johnson said a study group was set up to review the present ordinance and
policies long before this incident at Armstrong High School.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 5
Ms. Brekke asked if a perimeter review could be given at the end of an item at Planning
Commission meetings so a project is clear to neighbors.
Councilmember Lymangood said there was an agreement between all parties on three
points. First, there will be a restoration of wrongfully lost trees at a 3:1 ratio in number,
and a two -to -one ratio in diameter. Second, this incident demonstrates the need for an
updated tree preservation ordinance. Third, some sort of a perimeter review needs to be
done as part of the plan review process.
Community Development Director Hurlburt said that staff needs to look at more details of
proposed development projects. She believes that an updated tree preservation ordinance
would help.
Councilmember Lymangood said the City needs to be sure that plan changes are clearly
explained to affected residents. If changes occur in the plan, ample notification and
explanation should be issued to residents.
Community Development Director Hurlburt said she believed that changes in this situation
were more related to expectations than in changes to the actual plan.
Councilmember Helliwell asked who had ordered the trees cut.
Mr. Palmer said he did not know. There was an earth work subcontractor waiting who
told the cutter to wait for the call to go ahead. The call never came, but the cutter went
ahead with the tree removal.
Councilmember Helliwell said that is why it is important to have someone overseeing the
construction on the site.
MOTION was made by Councilmember Lymangood, seconded by Councilmember
Anderson, to adopt RESOLUTION 95-305 RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING
STAFF TO ISSUE BUILDING PERMITS FOR THE ARMSTRONG HIGH
SCHOOL ATHLETIC/PHYSICAL EDUCATION COMPLEX LOCATED AT
10635 36TH AVENUE NORTH
Councilmember Lymangood said he is hoping that a series of bi-weekly meetings will keep
communications going.
Motion carried, seven ayes.
ITEM 2 ELM CREEK CLUSTER PLANNING (CONT.)
The Council continued discussions about Elm Creek Cluster Planning at 6:30 p.m.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 6
Councilmember Wold expressed concern about the number of development plans being
discussed.
Planning Director Hurlburt said the best time for that concern to be aired is when
projections are discussed as a general plan. The Metropolitan Council is currently
discussing proposed limits - not actual plans.
City Manager Johnson said the figures in their report do not represent a proposal, but only
a guideline.
Councilmember Edson said he understands concerns about proceeding with a plan faster
than some citizens may want. He is concerned about the City agreeing to lot sizes,
development requirements, and consolidation of homes within a certain price range into
one area of the city. He stated that the City of Minneapolis is an example of bad
residential consolidation plans, and he is concerned about that type of approach.
Councilmember Anderson asked if the Metropolitan Council report was a plan or just a
conceptual document.
City Manager Johnson said it is still a conceptual effort, contributed to by all northwest
suburbs. He said there will be meetings sometime in the fall. After that, the items in the
plan will become more firm.
Councilmember Anderson asked what options might be open as alternatives to what he
called, "Orfield's suburban ghettos".
City Manager Johnson said the individual cities still have control over the development
process. The Metropolitan Council meetings are about whether the guidelines in their
report are workable.
Councilmember Granath cautioned against broad generalizations and expressed his
confidence in the City staff. He warned of not comparing anything from the Metropolitan
Council versus from the Legislature. He said there is a need to set limits to the guidelines.
The Metropolitan Council has been charged with trying to establish affordable housing,
and the City needs to cooperate in the discussion. He is not sure the full spectrum of
opinion has been expressed. He said affordable housing is a good thing, that it can do
good for the community and for the tax base. He warned not to adopt a defacto policy of
opposition to the Metropolitan Council.
Councilmember Anderson called it a multi -faceted issue. He is concerned about a
politicized body making decisions for the local community, when it should be the local
government. He is opposed to requirements for a cluster plan. He agreed that affordable
housing is needed, but the issues of where and when should be decided in local debate.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 7
Councilmember Wold concurred.
Councilmember Edson stated that diversity is important, but options are needed. He
expressed concern that government has a tendency to deal with certain aspects of issues.
He believes the Metropolitan Council and Representative Orfield are dealing with social,
not economic, issues. He cited the Armstrong High School athletic field trees as an
example of local government at work, solving a problem rather than making it worse. He
sees a problem in the approach by the Metropolitan Council, and is concerned that
something will be adopted that will affect the decision making ability of the local
government.
Councilmember Anderson asked if Plymouth has made any agreements with the
Metropolitan Council.
Community Development Director Hurlburt said no. The Metropolitan Council wants an
update of how housing development plans are proceeding. If development is not
proceeding, the Metropolitan Council will offer direction on how to proceed. There is a
need for commitment before the local planning process is in place. She said we are
waiting for the Legislature to adjourn to learn how to proceed with development
guidelines and what cities are expected to do to get affordable housing project plans
implemented.
Councilmember Granath said that ultimately the City needs to have the Metropolitan
Council advise where they will place the MUSA lines.
Mayor Tierney said that Plymouth is a community in need of some sort of metropolitan
governance because with only one regional sewer system, along with the road system, the
City needs to know how to meet demands of users. She said the City does need to be part
of the regional planning - not acquiescing to it - but telling the Metropolitan Council the
needs of Plymouth and its residents. She doesn't believe that Plymouth is locking into one
plan with the Metropolitan Council's report. She said the City's interest in their proposal
focuses
Ion
the matter of low income housing and how to fund it.
Councilmember Helliwell was she is not sure that apartments in Plymouth necessarily
qualify as affordable for single parents or someone starting out in life. She agreed that the
City's housing has been driven by the market, from late 1980's onward. She believes that
the very large three-story homes would continue to be developed in northwest Plymouth,
but that it is dangerous if only one type of housing exists.
Mayor Tierney said in meeting with northwest Plymouth residents, most indicated they are
opposed to any development at all.
Councilmember Helliwell asked if the Metropolitan Council could force sewer and water
on areas outside the MUSA boundary.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 8
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated "no".
City Manager Johnson stated there is already "leap -frogging" of residential occurring in
the northwest area. He suggested that the City may want to adopt a slow or no growth
approach to housing development, while the Metropolitan Council may want quicker
action.
Community Development Director Hurlburt observed that this is a reversal of policies
from the past. She said that previously the growth was desired by cities, while the
Metropolitan Council pushed slower growth.
Councilmember Anderson asked if City staff has developed plans or projections on the
cost of growth versus revenue generated.
City Manager Johnson responded that this had been done about five years ago, but it is
dependent on statistics from the Metropolitan Council.
Councilmember Helliwell asked about a report that was done some years ago on buildable
lots.
Community Development Director Hurlburt said that staff is refining land use reports, but
that most of the available land is already platted and divided into lots.
City Manager Johnson called the meetings with the Metropolitan Council staff cordial and
stated the meetings were geared toward how the two parties can reach agreement, not
how they disagree. The Metropolitan Council staff listened to facts from the Plymouth
perspective with an open mind, and there will be a June 9 Metropolitan Council tour of the
northwestern metro area. The tour will start in Brooklyn Park, travel through Plymouth,
Medina, and Maple Grove, and return to Brooklyn Park for a roundtable discussion. He
said the intent will be not just to show rural areas but to show what a variety of housing
exists in Plymouth to give a better profile of the city.
Councilmember Helliwell asked what type of housing, in addition to the Section 8 rental
program, may be considered diverse and affordable housing.
Community Development Director Hurlburt pointed to the Parkers Lake apartment
project as an example.
Mayor Tierney stated the median annual income in Plymouth is considered to be around
54,000 per household.
Councilmember Wold pointed out that there nothing under $500 per month for rental
units in Plymouth.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 9
Community Development Director Hurlburt said the City is allowed higher rent
allowances in their programs because rental rates are higher overall in Plymouth.
Councilmember Anderson requested that a timetable be developed on the proposed
hearings so the City could inform the public.
ITEM 3 REPORT OF 1995 REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT SURVEY
Community Development Director Hurlburt explained that the Minnesota Real Estate
Journal does an annual survey, in which Plymouth rates quite negatively. Several years
ago, the City Council directed staff to do a City survey of developers. Two years ago, a
City volunteer with a math statistical background, developed a full survey that was mailed
to everyone who had applied in Plymouth's planning process in the last three years.
Director Hurlburt said the response rate was very low, about 20 percent, and some
recipients may have feared a lack of anonymity and/or retaliation for negative comments
about the City. She introduced Vicki Hench, the volunteer who worked on the survey.
Vicki Hench explained the survey and its findings. She said the issue of low response rate
needs attention in future surveys, but the comments returned were useful. She advised the
Council to look for big trends in the responses, rather than small percentage differences.
City Manager Johnson explained the demographics of the respondents and outlined some
of the findings. He reported there was high praise for City information on ordinances and
building and zoning guidelines, but that almost half the respondents were not satisfied with
the City staff. He said staff was viewed by respondents as neutral or discouraging in their
help. He also pointed out that more than one-third of the respondents found the Council
discouraging. He stated that more than half the respondents found the timeliness of the
initial review process acceptable, but that more than one-third found it slower than in
other cities. He said that 75 percent of the respondents who had made formal planning
applications did not find the City's codes, ordinances, or policies unreasonable. The fire
code, sign regulations, zoning ordinances, landscaping and tree preservation policies, and
financial guarantees were the top issues respondents found unacceptable.
Councilmember Lymangood suggested that a letter be sent to the original survey
recipients explaining that the low response rate from the first survey prompted a desire for
another effort with broader response. He recommended that the City offer a copy of
survey responses to recipients. He was puzzled by the dissatisfaction with staff.
City Manager Johnson suggested one possible answer is a change in how ordinances are
implemented and interpreted. He said the City needs to work with all staff members in all
departments to ensure that information is required of customers only if it is mandated by
ordinance or state statute.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 10
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated that interpretation of code books is a
problem. She said that other cities differently interpret statutes and ordinances, but
Plymouth staff has researched issues when it is drawn to their attention.
Mayor Tierney observed that usually has happened after thousands of dollars have been
spent in complaint.
Councilmember Edson said he believes that one comment received summarizes the issue:
The need for inspectors who will offer entire list of requirements at beginning of a
project, not add to the list each time."
Community Development Director Hurlburt said she had the opportunity to visit a
business which had recently moved to Plymouth. She said they had been warned against
the move, and they had to pay $100,000 for a water sprinkler system. She stated that the
business was afraid to challenge the issue, but were very angry they had signed the lease
without discovering there had been changes in the City Code over the years.
Mayor Tierney observed that the City reorganized in order to get the entire inspections
services under Community Development, and asked if that has made a difference.
Community Development Director Hurlburt noted that the survey was sent out a year ago
to many people who dealt with the City before that reorganization change. They may
have better comments on the operations now.
Mayor Tierney asked if inspectors come back and relay to supervisors disagreements they
may have relating to inspections.
Community Development Director Hurlburt said that contractors will discuss concerns
with supervisors. However, if a contractor doesn't question the inspection, the City
doesn't hear about it.
City Manager Johnson suggested that there may be an easier avenue of appeal. He added
that recent experience with developers has shown the City needs to structure the
permitting system to address large issues earlier. He stated that the design review does a
good job of covering details, but larger issues need to be discussed and identified earlier.
He said potential problems need to be addressed before the project reaches the Planning
Commission or the Council.
Councilmember Lymangood asked if technical aspects of projects are being fully examined
at an early enough point in the process.
Councilmember Anderson said he has received comments that good customer service is an
issue. He asked if more responsive service to citizens is needed. He said developers and
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 11
citizens are expressing increasing animosity about what they view as arrogance and
dictation of plan guidelines without negotiation.
Councilmember Helliwell said she has heard how difficult the City is to work with. She
said that her response to that is to ask, "Do you like what you see in the community?"
Councilmember Edson observed that you can say no politely but it may come at the wrong
time. He suggested the City work at conveying messages at more appropriate times in the
planning process.
Councilmember Lymangood suggested contacting respondents of the survey, with the
addition of contacts at the TwinWest breakfasts. He said the City needs larger response as
well as a more specific responses to the questions.
Mayor Tierney asked staff if there should be a follow-up to the survey.
Community Development Director Hurlburt said they would have to start over and are
unable to do it now.
Councilmember Lymangood recommended sending a letter to the respondents telling them
that the City got a low response rate and vague responses. They could ask to view the
survey results.
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated that staff doesn't know who sent the
completed survey back.
MOTION was made by Councilmember Wold, seconded by Councilmember Anderson,
to direct staff to send letters to all receivers of the business survey, as well as participants
in the TwinWest Plymouth Builders Conference.
Motion carried, seven ayes.
Mayor Tierney asked if there were any comments on TwinWest's concern about the City's
commercial development moratorium.
Community Development Director Hurlburt introduced Jennifer Herron of the TwinWest
Chamber of Commerce.
Ms. Herron observed that TwinWest is trying to gain knowledge about the purpose and
issues relating to the moratorium. She added that the word "moratorium" is like a red
flag, and asked if there was a time this could be discussed.
Councilmember Helliwell asked if TwinWest receives questions from future development
interests and potential businesses.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 12
Ms. Herron stated that most of the concerns voiced by members are about the meaning of
the moratorium. She said the City's plans to update ordinances and the permitting process
sound very positive.
Mayor Tierney wanted to hear how impact of the commercial development moratorium
might be on future developments and asked if planning staff had received any reactions.
Community Development Director Hurlburt responded that comments received indicate
that developers are upset. She said staff can't accept applications so they don't hear many
comments. Staff has turned away at least three inquiries, and it's difficult to judge how
serious other interest is.
Councilmember Edson left the meeting.
ITEM 5 COUNCIL CHAMBER RENOVATION
Assistant Manager Lueckert reported on the work of staff in reviewing options for the
physical layout and technology for the City Council Chambers. Staff visited chambers in
six other cities, and developed three options for consideration. The plans have some
common features, such as a presentation stand with technical capabilities. Monitors are
included in the dais and presentation stands. She explained that the City can reuse its
current video cameras. She said the seating of staff is unresolved. She asked for Council
comments on which option to pursue.
Assistant Manager Lueckert explained that Option 1 moves the dais to the center of the
chambers, with video screens at each end of the dais. Option la is a slight variation, with
a corner video/presentation screen. It also contains pedestal monitors on each side.
Option 2 involves a 90 -degree turn of the seating and dais positions. It would require a
major renovation of the chambers. Option 3 is similar to the current setting and received
the staff recommendation. This option proposes a rear projection screen, and uses staff
tables which would be on wheels. A small podium would be used for speakers without
materials to present. She stated the concept of this option is to curve the dais to one
corner of the room. The curved dais would make it easier to see others at the Council
table.
Councilmember Anderson favored Option 1 or Option la. He would like to see the use of
two projection screens with a greater bend or curve in the dais. He said this option offers
the best sight lines and communication with other Councilmembers and the audience.
MOTION was made by Councilmember Anderson, seconded by Councilmember
Lymangood, to endorse Option 1 with a provision to round the shape of the dais, to use
dual presentation screens, and to not eliminate audience seating.
Special Council Meeting
May 24, 1995
Page 13
City Manager Johnson said Option 3 maximizes the audience seating and offers the most
efficient use of space.
Councilmember Anderson stated that Option 1 with the dual screens would work best. He
has concerns that the other options may cause difficult for the audience to see
Councilmembers when they are speaking.
Councilmember Helliwell asked if Option 3 offered a larger presentation screen.
Assistant Manager Lueckert stated yes.
City Manager Johnson stated that Option 1 would also require small monitors along the
sides of the chambers.
Mayor Tierney suggested that one monitor should be raised above and behind the panel
table on the dais.
Councilmember Wold said he prefers Option 1 with a mild curve in the dais so that
Councilmembers can see the audience, and not appear to be looking just at each other. He
said the Council's primary concern needs to be the constituents.
MOTION to amend the main motion was made by Councilmember Anderson, seconded
by Councilmember Wold, to add "maintaining all reasonably possible architectural and
video communications standards."
Assistant Manager Lueckert stated that all of the options would provide for about 120
seats.
Motion to amend carried, six ayes; Edson absent.
Main motion as amended carried, six ayes; Edson absent.
ITEM 6 CITIZEN SURVEY
Assistant Manager Lueckert distributed copies of the initial citizen survey results. She
suggested that the material be reviewed and discussed at a later date.
Mayor Tierney adjourned the meeting at 8:05 p.m.
urt Hoffman
Sr. Clerk Typi , Administration