HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 07-16-1979 Speciali
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Councilmembers Present:
City Council Fiinutes
Special study Meeting
July 16, 1979 (5:30 p.m,)
Spaeth, Neils. Hoyt., Aunt and davenport
Others Present: Commissioners Schneider„ Wire and Eagleton.
Staff members Tremere, Moore. Born. Wtllis, Boyles and Pearsoc;.
Barton-Aschman's Ohrn and Lutenegger. Members of the press.
Mayor Hunt convened -the meeting and asked Carl Ohrn of Barton-Aschman Associates
to proceed with their presentation regarding the Physical Constraints Analysis,
Carl Ohrn (Barton-Aschman Associates) - Began his presentation by referring to
t'fie Ietropo .an an ann ng ct, which suggest. and in fact. requires that
certain physical elements be taken into account in each RVtre community's
Comprehensive Plan,
He noted these elements include wetlands,. unsuitable soils, special natural
resources, slopes, etc. He stated that Barton-Aschman covered 34 of these
elements in their Physical Constraints Analysis Invenlovy of significant
physical concerns. The subjects anal zed included hydrological systems,
fisheries resources, water quality, manaaemem, wetlands, woodlands%
unique and endangered species, areas of special toportance, upag.raphtc relief
and soils.
Chrn stated that the DOIR and other state agencies also are or will be requiring
cities to look at many of these concerns such as wetlands, topography,
agricultural production areas. historic sites, etc.
the consultant also related that the Physical Constraints Analysis was initiated
in order to provide material to the City to meet future E.A.W. data requests.
Ohrn stated that after reviewing all information gathereA. they determined
that there were four physical characteristics that should be deemed, severe.
Assuming the availability of Public Sewer these severe constraints were slopes
of 18 percent or more, unsuitable soils assuming public seweres, primary
wetlands and flood sways. No noted that this aTisumeddevelopment utilizing
public sewers and that if development were to occur via onesite sewer systems
the severe physical constraints to devel oprment ,would be o 1 tered to include
slopes of 18 percent or more, unsuitable soils resuming onvs:te sewerage
systems, primary wiatlans and floodways.
He reiterated that Barton-Aschman also looked at Potential Preservation Areas.
The physical characteristics that were most sign,lticant for potential preserve
areas were woodlands over 40 acres in size, primary wetlands, land in the
floodplain and slopes of 18 percent or more.
Ohrn emphasized that She 1 to 1000 scale malps proipided' the City shouldn't be
utilized for sits plsnning purposes.
In explaining each of the physical characteristics deemed sevQre the consultant
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stated that slopes between 10Y, - 18t may cause develt;,,ment problems, but slopes
18% and steeper will cause erosion, creates road access problems in the winter
and when these areas are disturbed the tree cover and their root systems are
also disturbed.
Councilmember Neils asked how smaller areas with slopes over 18% were dealt with?
Ohrn stated that you can't do that at the 1"-1000' stale. You must look at
those areas on a site planning basis.
Ohrn went on to mention that a lot of the thickest stands of mature trees are
in areas where slopes over IV, are evident. These are also areas of excellent
bird and animal habitat.
The consultant explained the concept of mfistaitswie soils and gave the example
of poorly drained areas, such as areas that have extensive peat coverage.
Areas of unsuitable soils may dovetail with areas wrath steep slopes.
Regarding wetlands the ONR will at some point be notifying all communities,
including Plymouth,, t:. determine which wetlands in the City should be deemed
primary wetlarl;". A primary wetlar-d would be 2.5 acres or larger and would
be determined by cover type.
Councilinember Neils asked Mr. Qhrn "flaw wet is +yet"7
Mr. Ohrn res ended that vegetation is an indication of "wetness". Barton-
Aschman utilized wetland cover tropes to differentiate between various types of
wetlands. Ohrn then listed the benefits of preserving wetlands being that
of fish spawning areas, storm water holding areas, settling areas for turbidity
and settling ponds for sedimentation.
Mr, lutenegger of Barton-Aschman, 9oted tt-at there are differences of opinion
among staff, members at the DNR as to which wetlands to regulate.
Ohro then mentioned the fact that land In the floodway is often also impacted
by other seiere physical constraints such as soils unsuitable for public severs
and/or primary ht`lands. You therefore hAve s number of situet}3ns where
physical constraints overlap each 3ther,
Mayor Hunt related that he tn•d walked much of Plymouth and its not that bad
as the maps depict the City).
Councilmember Davenport stated that Map 7A doesn't preclude developwent,
Ohrn suggested that this scale of map isn't perfect, you do have site-specific
errors at this scale' but it does point out problem areas and areas of concern.
City Manager Willis, emphasized that this is a planning tool and that this
should be 're -looked at when "Mr. Jones" comes in to develop.
Ohrn suggested that severe constraints become sort of a red flag when
reviewing a proposal,
Jhrn, thin mentioned' that there are many ways to use the data compiled and
those vi rioas Nays are listed in the Barton-Aschman report.
Ohrn thet. explained the impacts of physical constraints on the other
Comprehensive Plan Colr4anoants. He described a scenario where the Vty
wouldn't devciap physical constraint areas and the existing Thoroughfare
Guide Plan is wilt. Ne displayed a graphic, that delineated thoroughfares in
the City that wouid have severe congestion during peak. hours, Sovere congestion
was defined as the roadaatos being at 110Y of capacity, with bumper to bumper
traffic during pea'. hours and having to wait two or three gycies to get through
a light. Qhrn then for purposes of comparison estimated that Highway 12 is
currently at 13U of capacity,
Councilmember Davenport stated that in conztusion it appeared that the present
Thoroughfare Guide Plan is inadequate.
Courrc.iImember Neils stated that a reduction in family (household) size is
occurring and that increasing gas pricas will effect the Thoroughfare Guide
Plan System,
Mayor Hunt noted that onlt 49th Ave. is totally within the City's contrul. He
also asked if the current saturation population estimate is 139901014
Associate Planner Pearsoi relited that a more current estimated population range
for Plymouth is between 85,000 and 120,000.
Ohrn then related that physical constraints also has a bearing on the City's
Parks 4eeds Statement. Good park lard has to he provided, The City can't
just take preserve land(. for parks,
Councilmember Davenport stated that the Physical Constraints Anrlysis impacts
wst or., the huroughfare Guide Plan.
Mayor Hunt pointed out that the high cost positions of the sewar system are
in place,
City Manager Willis added that we have also put in underzted pipe in the past
and have had to change it.
Ohin suggested that adjacent communities may utilize excess pipe.
Planner Tremere asked you list areas that may suggest requiding, Now should you
use the tables starting an Page 37?
Ohrn stated the tabler. sAula be used as o planning tool only. Thts data begs
the question what happens when an entirru planning area is developed?
Ohrn spoke to the issue of the economic viability of a site. He said a numbers
of factors come to hear on Vie economics of a site such as visibility, the
percent of land that is constrained, goo4 access and the size of the tract,
Ohrn reiterated that there has to be another level of detail when going41throughsiteplanapproval. This material gives a broad -brush approach,
Ohrn noted the City already has some ways of coping with physical constraints
v6a R•0 toning and via density transfer.
Planning CommUsinner Wire stated that them are too many constraints.
City Manage- Willis stated we have to have cautions in the narrative.
Mayor Bunt pointert out that the land ih the black on the map is not al!
undevelopable.
Wiitis stated it provides a tool for the Ploinning Commission, City Council and
MY Staff :o use when looking at a development.
Councilmember Neils expressed concern over the misuse of the physical
constraints analysis.
Mayor hunt suggeste4 that the physical tont;traints be used as a check list
when looking at and reviewing a developm%nt.
City Manager Willis stated this should occur at the concept stage.
Associate Planner Pearson related that a checklist is a way to deal with
physical constraints in a written format and a way tL deal with physical
constraints graphically would be to attach environmental overlays of
individual physical constraints to the Zoning Ordinance,
Councilmember Neils agreed that individual maps was a better way to approach
physical constraints then through the use of composite overlay maps.
City Manager Willis noted that all metro communities will have to deal with
physical constraints and that if we deal with physical constraints reasonable
and fairly it will be to our advantage in dealing with developers.
Mayor Hunt closed the Special Study Meeting by suggesting that the Council
meet jointly with the Planning Commission on July 26, 1979 at 7:30 P.M. to
discuss these and other matters.
The Special Study Meeting was adjourned a :30 P.M.
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