HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 02-23-1976 Special0
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MINUTES
Specie Council Meeting
rVIDruary 23, 1976
A special meeting of the Plymouth City Council was called to order by Acting Mayor Hunt
at 7:30 P'.M. in the Council Chambers of the Public Works Building, 14900 Twenty-third
Avenue North, on February 23, 1976. ,
PRE.J,ENT: Acting Mayor Hunt, Councilmen Neils and Spaeth, Manager Willis, Engineer
Goldberg and Consulting Engineer Olson,
ABSENT: Mayor Hilde and CouncilmanLSe,ibold.
PUBLIC`'HEARIN6 - BASS LAKE AREA IMPROVEMENTS AND LARCH LANE STREET IMPROVEMENT -
Acting Moyor Hunt introduced the item for Public Hearing, Bass Lake -Area Improvements
and Larch Lane Street Improvement - Project'tjo,, 607., The Mayor introduced members of
the City Council and City staff present at 'the meeting to the audience.
Manager Willis stated that notices of the public hearing were published in the New Hope -
Plymouth Post, written notice was mailed to each property owner in the improvement area,
announcements and discussions at Council meetingso were held and there had been numerous
newspaper write-ups on the subject project. The Manager stated the project had been
requested by petition of residents in 1973. Fle then explained the Special assessment
policy and procedures followed by the City.
Consulting Engineer Olson explained the project in detail and reviewed the t:osts,
Acting Mayor Hunt opened the public hearing at 8:00 P.M.
Engineer Goldberg read a letter received from Mir. Frank Crowle , 1621 Carl Street,,,
Apt. #2, in which he questioned how his proper
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a nev ew Lane would be
assessed.
Robert M. Gomsrud, 5415 Pineview Lane, asked if his 20 acre farm'on the west side of
rev ew Cane woo d be considered benefited and assessed. Reply Yes, for area charges
only, He,also esked'why the map shows sewer sorvice coming to Pineview lane from the
lagoon area. Reply: The Council ordered the area southwest of the lagoon to be con
sidered in this study, since service to the area will be necess::ry at some time in the
future. However, the'area may or may not be included in this project.,
Ralph Durand, 1200 - 5 Ird Avenue North, asked what other alternates had been conm
sidereFWEir than going through his property to connect into the trunk. Reply:
Other alternates were crnsidered but any other alternate would require a second
lift station and would Ire too expensive to in;tall and operate. The proposed plan
is the most economical. If some other location can be found to he more economical,
it is feasible that the design could be changed. Mr. Durand stated he would like
to work with the Co'4 in finding an alternate for the line going through his property. Mr. Durand also asked if the acreage charge would be applied only to lots that are
buildable. Reply: The acileage charge is $500 per acre. The minimum charge 6 s
251 per unit. If the property is unhuildablo that would have to be taken into
consideration. The Assesswnt Committee will look at each lot in detail to determine
the assessment.
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Special Council Meeting
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Page 47
Mrs,, Ernest Woodrow, 9141 West Highway 55, is building a home at 53rd', Avenue andEvergreen. ShFspoke in favor of a unit charge rather than front footage charges.
She asked if the wetlands on her property would be assessed, Reply: ''Normally,
the Committee would lnok at high water lines and would not assess acreage charges
for propErty that is underwater.' Mrs. Woodrow asked v hat the completion date for
the project would be. Reply: It Council proceeds quickly, the majority of the streets,
would,be usable by the fall of 1976.
Larr Graham, 404 Van Buren, Cdina, is buying a home in this ,area and asked how the
eve opment ramework Plan class.ified'this area. Reply: Thelarea is within the
Metropolitan Urban Service Area (MUSA) and therefore there is rho conflict.
Roger G. B orlin, 12110 - 54th Avenue Aorth, asked how large the pumping station would
be,and if it wou d be noisless. Reply; The'pumping station would+be totally underground
with only an entrances hatch aboveground to service tit and would be noiseless.
Mr. Bjorlin also asked if the force main leading from the pumping station would be
leakproof and what would be done to insure against leakage into the lake at the,
channel crossing. Reply: It will be a difficult construction problem, but ductile
iron pipe will be used which, is the most durable and water-tight pipe manufactured.
Mr. Bjorlin asked if there was a way of reducing the costs of this project if the
drainage would flow in another direction. Reply: 1nis project will always require
a lift station regardless of the direction the sewers are drained. Mr. Bjorlin
asked if there would be another public hearing on the project. Repiy: Yes.
This hearing is to determine the feelivigs and desires of the residents about going
forward with the project. The second hearing would consider the assessment charges,,
Mr. Bjorlin asked wny the line on the northeast edge of the lake ran so close to
the shore. Reply: This is a preliminary engineering line. It may he changed after
further engineering study. Mr. Bjorlin questioned the layout of the trunk line on
Pineview. Reply: It will not affect the project if;the lateral line is built now
or later.t The trunk line must be put in with this project.
John French, 5521 Halifax Lane, Edina, asked'if it has been determined over what
per o o years the assessment will be spread. Reply: It has not yet been finally
determined, but normal policy is to spread a combined water and sanitary sewer
assessment over a 15-year period. Mr. French asked if it would be possible to pass
on the lower percentage rate that would be available to the City to the homeowners,
Reply: This difference in interest rates is absorbed in the sinking fund and is
responsible for reduced area and REC charges. If the lower interest rate were
passed on to the homeowners it would result in higher area and REC charges.
Mr. French also asked when the second public hearing would be held. Reply:
It will be held upon tapletion of the project,, approximately in late 1977.
Mr. French owns property in Timber Shores and is concerned that the assessment
costs raight make the price of his lots prohibitive. He is interested in how these
charges might be reduced,, He asked if it might be possible to lay the pipes along
the roadside easements in order to avoid the st,*eet restoration,, Reply: There is
a possibility in several areas where the boulevord area is not taken up with
utilities that we might be able "o avoid tearing, up both sides of the street.
However, in most cases you can't deal with ,the installation of sewer and water
without excavating the entire street.
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Chuck Gannott, 11710 - 54th Avenue Nortn, asked if tiny consideration has been given
to protecting the lake from infiltration and minimizing the amount of sediment
falling into the lake during the construction period. Reply: Pill possible care
will be taken to protect the lake from infiltration during the construction period.
Careful construction practices will keep the amount if sediment en-t-ering the lake
to a minimum, but it is impossible to prevent it entirely.
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Bo er Palmer, 4780 0akview;
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Special Council Meeting
February 23, 1976
Page 49
Don Mason, 11705 - 53rd.Avenue..-aiked if present residents were picking up the cost
dortFthe that would run down larch Lane to County Road 9. Reply: No. Mr.,
Mason also asked if the Council felt the cost for the project would go down if
it was postponed for a number,of years till the area was more fully developed
so there would be more participation in sharing the cost. Reply: Construction
costs have been escalating at approximately a rate of 10 percent per year, so
there would be no aJvantage to delaying the project. Mr. Mason also asked if
Council would consider ordering the sewer improvement at this time and the water
at a later date. Reply: No. This would entail paying for restoring the street twice.
Ernie Forness, 12875 - 47th Avenue North, questioned the reason for the jog in the
oun ary line on 47th Avenue. Reply: The boundary lines are determined by the
topography of the land and the jog represents a ridge line. Engineer Goldberg
commented that these boundary lines have been extended to the farthest possible
limits of this project so that any property owners that might possibly be benefited
by the project would be notified now. At the next public,hearing the finite lines
will be drawn as to the actual assessment area. Mr. Forness asked if the undeveloped
area west of Larch Lane was to be included in this project. Reply: Any area that
will be served by that trunk line will have to be included in -this project. The
assessment on undeveloped acreage that will be served by this trunk will be for
area charges only and the property will not be assessed again for an area charge.
Tom Friederich, 11915 - 54th, Avenue,Nerth, suggested ai alterrate route for the trunk
ne as it goes west on the cul-de-sac on 54th and cuts across the channel. He
suggested that the sewer should be constructed along the existing storm sewer easement.
There is some erosion now along the storm sewer that should be corrected. Reply:
This suggestion will be considered.
G oergeePolus, 11555 - 54th Avenue North, asked what the phases of the construction
timetablewould be. Reply: The final design is not yet complete. When it is we will
insert into the specifications certain requirements as to which phases should be'
completed first, Those areas involving Areet restoration will be completed first
so that that streets can be restored before the winter. The construction will start
downstream and work upstream. The sanitary sewer will be laid first and then the
contractor ill come back to lay the water main. The sewer on 54th is fairly deep
at the intersection of Larch Lane and during this phase of construction the homes
to the east will be cut off for probably one week or more. On the east side of
54th where the cut'. is extremely deep --38 ft.-- the procedure will be to sub -cut
it down to 15 ft. and haul away the dirt before making the second cut. This could
take as long as several months to complete. Mr. Friederich asked where the residents
could park during that time. Reply: Parking areas would have to be set up on
Evergreen and Goldenrod and walkways provided. Mr. Friederich asked what depth
the sewer would be at Evergreen and 54th. Reply: 20 ft. Mr. Friederich also asked
if the drainage ditch running parallel -to Evergreen would be filled in. Reply: no,
not as part of this project. Mr. Friederich asked if there was a starting date for
the project. Reply: No. Mr. Friederich asked if any pumping done during the con-
struction work would affect the wells in the area. Reply: This would depend on
the depth of the wells. If the existing wells terminate at the area of the pipe
grade, the pumping operation could have an effect on the wells. Mr. Friederich
asked if it would affect the level of the lake. Reply: No. Mr. Friederich asked
how the lagoon will be crossed and if there is a chance of the pipes floating.
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Page 50
Reply: Tests indicate pilings in that area, There is no chance of the pipes
floating since they will be 10-12 ft,below the level of the channel,
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Lyle Giebenha_i_n,
left in Plymouth
Hi g, farm was not
it was included
his property may
he wished- to be
13020 6 County Road 41, :stated he has one of the two dairy herds
on 80 acres in the northv*,qkst area of the map west of Pineview,
included +, wra Preject in the preliminary plan and he asked why
now, Reply: The`boundairy lines bre inflated for this hearing and
or may not be included in the project. Mr. Giebenhain stated
excluded from this project,
Iarie Friederf-ch, 11915 - 54th Avenue North, asked what R:::j if oeneral upkeep and
maintenance t e pumping stations would,requiFc and if there wereprdb;ems would the
area have to be dug up when repairs were made, keplYs- The pumps are chocked once a
day to make sure they are operating properly, There is other maintenance at all.
The pump is self-contained and there would be no digging involved in repairs to it.
Mrs. Friederich asked how long the channel would be cut off during cons tr"Iction*
Reply: 36 weeks.
Virgil Schneider, 11520 - 54th Avenue North, suggested that Council consid(ir
assessing the street restoration on a front footage basis and sewer and wager on
a unit basis. He questioned whetter the unit charge was equitable conside,,ting
the difference in the frontages between some lots. Reply: The general 9mind. rules
are to compare lets in one development to see if they are all approximately equal
in size. If there is a great difference between one development and another,
there may be some adjustment of unit charges according to the average lot size.
If a lot is of such a size that it is dividable, it will be assessed additional
uniot charges, The method for assessing must be the same for sewer and water and,
streets when they are included in one project. Mr; Schneider asked if any con=
sideration would be given to the Schmidt Lake development as far as front footage.
Reply: Lots that are not dividable will be looked at as a single lot and get one
unit charge, Mr. Schneider asked if the plan takes into consideration the force,
main serving the land west of Pineview and east of 494 which is guided for higher
density, Reply: That difference is primarily taken up in REC. charges. It is
taken into consideration also in the sizing of the pipes, Mr. Schneider asked
if the extension of the trunk should be made into Timber Shores to pick up one home,
Reply: The extension was made so the property on the south could also be serviced.
Mr. Schneider asked if a pumping station in lieu of the 38 ft. cut on 54th Avenue
was feasible, Reply: A number of alternatives have been analyzed for this project.
The trunk costs are $60,000 more for the two -pump concept as opposed to eche one -
pump concept with the deep cut, We came to the conclusion the additional cost
was too much in exchange for the inconvenience of making the deep cut, Mr.
Schneider asked what would happen to the pump during an interruption of electrical
service to the area, which is a frequent occurrence: in this area. Reply: The
pump would stop. There is sufficient wet well capacity to handle this for a
period of "ime. Mr. Schneider stated at times elect pical service has been out
for 3 or 4 days. Reply: In this case, some type of twnergency power would have
to be provided. Mr. Schneider stated he is in favor of the project and would
like to see the whole area jo to concrete curb and gutter,
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Council Meeting
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Wright Sam son, 5325 Goldenrod lane, opposed the project and stated he felt it would
be t e consensus of the residents without Lakeshore property to oppose the project.
Mr. Sampson,asked if the construction across the channel could perhaps break the seal
on the lane. Reply: No one can guarantee that the seal will not be broken, but 1t is
our judrAnt that using careful construction practices will ^revent it. Mr. Sampso.%
asked :no would pay the costs for repairing the seal if it is broken. Reply: It
would be part of the project costs. Mr. Sampson asked why the Metropolitan Sewer
Board charge and the individual hook-up charge were not included in the estimated
assessment costs. Reply: These charges are paid for by the individual and arR not
part of the assessment. They were; noted in the hand-out material. Mr. Sampson
stated he believed the lake was not being polluted by the septic systems as much
as it was polluted from outbohrd motors and fertilizers. Reply: In the case of
Parker's Lake and Medicine Lake, once sewer and water were installed, the lakes
made drastic changes from what they were before. Mr. Sampson asked what protecti n
would be provided when the 38 ft. cut was made at the channel, Reply: It will be;
fenced every night.
John Berrington. 11725 - 53rd Avenue North, asked if the water provided by the Ci':y
would be well water or surface water. Reply: It will be well water and will be
chlorinated, flouridated and treated for iron removal. Mr. Berrington also asked
if these trunks would eventually tie into the Metropolitan Sewer System. Reply: Y`,?s.
Mr. Oerrirgton asked if there was any possibility of acquiring federal funding for
a portion of this project. Reply: Federal money is presently being expended on
treatment plan work orrly. Ve have never been successful in getting money for
sewer work. Mv., Berrington asked if it was feasible that an effluent treatment
plant would someday be located on th s side of town. Reply: No. Mr. Berrington
asked what the excavation depths would be on 53rd Avenue, Reply: The sanitary
sewer on 53rd is of normal depth --8-10 ft. The typical rate of construction progrltss
per day would he 200-300 ft. Mr. Berrington asked if any easements would have to
be acquired on 53rd. Reply: No. It is proposed that the construction will be dowt
the center of the street.
Ron GJerstad, 4213 - 46th Avenue North, is builditiy a home at 5s30 Larch Lane.
He spoke in favor of the project, but felt beceuse of the non-residents coming
into the park and usinV the lake, the entire cost should not be borne by the
homeowners. The park should be assessed more because of the people it brings into
the area. Reply: The City will pay the area charge and lateral cnarges for the
park because it is a community park. If the gommunity-at-large was to bear much
more of the cone for this project than it is now carrying, Council would hese to
vote against it, Mr. Gjerstad irked when water would be available for use.
Reply: Immedia';elu 9fter constr4:tion is completed and tested.
Ray Seliski, 12010 - 53rd Avenue North, who is building a home in the area, stated
t would create a hardship for him if he were not able to hook up to the proposed
system this year, He also requested Council t.o see that the construction on the
channel is One in the most efficient way so that it would not be cut off all
summer. Reply: We are forced by state statute to take the lowest bid for coni
struction wn rk. We do have a great deal of control over the project, but we cannot
control the ch6ice of contractor, We will male every attempt to expedite this
project, d,r. Seliski also asked what the life expectancy of the sumps at the
lift stations would be. Reply: 20 ,years, and replacement will be borne by the
City Sewer Oft orating Find.
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Vic R tering, -98 McAowbro*k, Hopkins, a realtor, asked when surer woyld be -available
to ho 80 acres of land notth ,of County Road7 in `the northwest porti m,,Uf the map.
Reply; This area is not in our -S -year C.I,P. Out Mr~ Rotering ray petition to get it
into the C,I,P. Mr. Rotering. ask"ed if he could petition to be included"in the present
projet.t. Reply: No,
Dick ts,sen, 5610 Evergre Zn Lane, expressed apprW.aV of the project.' He asked what
the TepWof the sewer in the;Yale-Hoff area on Evergreen Lane would be. Reply:
The tftvnk will be laid at a depth of .%14 `ft., at iter. deepest print, Mr. Essen
also questioned where the lire woul'o be located. Reply: It wJ1J follow the center
1 ine knost of the way,
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Derald Gourley, 5265 Pineview, asked if the area charge for the project would be
acre for serer and $500/acre for water main. Reply: Council will review, both
the area and REC charges this spring and and they both wiil probably be increased.
Depending on wheo4r Mr. Gourley's property will be included in both the sewer trunk
area as well as the water trunk area, the assessment could be $500 per acre each for
whiter and sewer. Mr. Goorley asked if in the 5 -year plan West Medicine Lake Road
wffl be extended to connect with County Road 47, Reply: No. This is a county
extension on West Medicine Lake Road, Mr, Gourley also asked if his property could
be assessed twice for sewer and water. Reply: Area charges for sewer and water are
only paid. once., Mr. Gourley asked if it was possible to move the boundary line to
serve the east side of Pineview and omit the west side of Pineview which could be
included in another project 5 years from now. Reply: Your property would be in this
pMJect, Mr, Gourley asked how marry acres of park area the City owned and if con"
sideration might be given to have the west side of Bass Lake be devoted to park area.
Reply: It is not in our park plan. Mr. Gourley asked if the trunk would be necessary
if this land was parkland, Reply: To get to the homis that are already there, as
well as the property on the west side of Pineview, this trunk is necessary. They
cannot 3e reached from any other direction,
Chuck Wedge, 11730 - 54th Avenue North, lives in the area; where the 38 ft, trench
wiTTedug and asked how this area will Le protected during the day, Reply: The
trench will be sub-ctft and it will be fenced during construction for its cpntinuous
length, Mr. Wedge asked how long the construction in this area would take.
Reply: 6-8 weeks, Mr, Wedge asked why the construction woulo take this long,
Reply: Two lines are going in et different levels, after which service lines are
put in to each property, Then the street must be restored. With the equipment
currently available for this type of construction and to move that volume of dirt,
it will make 20-30 ft. per day, The area is 1,000 ft. long, Mr, Wedge also
questioned why the charges for the Metro Sewer System and indiv oual hookup
and plumbing charges were not figured into the assessmer4 charges in the report.
Reply: The normal engineering procedure in estimating a project is to show costs
to provide service to the property line,
Ruth Rosendahl, 5205 Pineview Lane North, owns 11 acres along t1bie railroad on
K nev ew. She asked why her propeMty is included in this project since it was not
included in the original plan, Reply: This property is on :ne border of the project
area, It may or may not be included in the project, but the property owner may not
make this choice, It is determined by the topography of the land,
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Special Council Meeting
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Dick Kaufftann, 4048 likeland Avenue North, owns 26 acres north of Bass Lake Road,
He asxe a lines did not crost. County Road 10, Reply: The road drains in an
easterly direction towards Pike Lake. Water service only will be available for the
area north of County Road 10 in this project. Mr. Kauffmana asked if there was a
possibility of being included in sever and water development in the next 5 year plan.
Reply: Not before 1979. Mr. Kauffmann stated he was told this area would be developed
in 1977. He asked if it could be included in this project since he cannot develop the
land without the availability of sewer. Could the small area west of Hemlock Lane
tie into the Maple Grove system, Reply: No, Maple Grove does not have the capacity
to handle Plymouth's sewage. Mr. Kauffmann may petition the City for sewer and water
for this property. We have gone on record as being willing to cooperate with any
joint ;project that mr.ets the long-term requirements of both comni ties. As far as
extending temporary service, we will have to look carefully at how much temporary
service we can allow.
Bob Saumur, 10451 Osage Street, asked if this project is undertaken when the assess-
ments wou d become payable, Reply: The assessments would become payable in Novgfter,
1977 and would first appeitr on the tax statements in May, 1978, Mr. Saumur asked
if it would be possible to coordinate the hook-up of individual homes with this
project. Reply: tio, we do not go onto private property.
J. A, Hammill, 355 Sweet ilriar Lane, Hopkins, urged the Council to go ahead with
the project since the cost: will only increase in the future.
Sibert M. Gomsrud, 5415 Pineview Lar°;:, ssked where future water towers were planned
in a y, Reply: Mr. Willis indicated on a map the iocations of future reservoirs
os contained in the City's; Water Distr;bution Plan.
Ralph Durand, '2000 - 53rd Avenue Ncrth, asked if there was a possibility of using
the 10-20 ff, of open space alongside the street for sewer lines. Reply: The street
right-of-way is 60 ft. The driving portion is 32 ft., leaving 14 ft. on each side,
Within that space are underground electricity, gas and telephone lines, To the
extent that the boulevard area has not been ured up by these utilities, we will be
looking at these areas as potential locations for suer lines in an attempt to cut
down disruption of the area. If we can get easements on 54th Avenue, we can use
these areas.
Roger B orlin, 12110 - 54th Avenue North, asked if anyone could hook into the force
main com n4 from 45th Avenue, ReDiv: No, it would back uD into your home. Mr.
Bjorlin asked if in the future there would be a lateral to serve the land on she
east and west site of Larch Lane, Reply: Yes, since we to not anticipate direct
driveway access onto Larch Lane, laterals will be run into this area, Mr. Bjorlin
asked if the pretent residents were paying For the force main now. Reply: No,
only as much as ),our area charges would cover this cost. Mr. Bjorlin asked if
surfacing we Larch Lane was planned. Reply: Surfacing of Larch Lane will not be
done until 1477. It will not be a part of i is assessment unless you live on
Larch Lane.
Virgil Schneider, 11520 - 54th
many oak -trees ai possible when
Reply: The City's, policy is to
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Avenue North, bsked Council to consider saving as
planning the line through Timber Shores Park.
save as many trees as possible.
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t rald Gourle 'i 5265 Pineview, asked how much the cost per foot would be when water
i d sWer are node available to his ,property. Repiy: If they were done at this time,
hey,, could expect';approximate]y the same as the costs in this -proje0', It- would depend
on'\the developmeot of the property and the timing.
Larry Graham, 40tVan Buren, Edina, asked
ment at the present time.- Repsy: No., not
Orob4fo1y be decided on March 8, 1976.
The pt?l i c hearing was closed at 10:45
MOTION was made by Acting Mayor Hunt,
from this hearing presented to Council
Motion carried, three ayes.
if this would be a pending special assess
until the project is ordered. ,This will
P.M.
seconded by Councilman Neils, to, have the data
at the regular meeting on March 8.
The meetiro was adjourned at 10:50 P.M.
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Loretta 6
Secretary
d . f
rri ty Ifs
to Coulfc i 1
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