HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 03-20-1972I
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1NUT,ES OF";,ULAR COLINCI MEETING
PLYMOUTH, MINNESOTA
F MARCH 200 1972"
A, regular meeting of the ' ymouth Yillage Council was called /'t'o order,
by'May.or. Ht1cJe at ,7:451 P.M, in the Wayzata Senior High School,
PRESENT: Mriyor Hilde, Councilmer. Spaeth, Hunt and Seibold,/'Manag r o)
Willis", Engineer Rudarud,, Consultant' Engineer Bone-stroo
at!pervi.5or of Public Works Perry, and Attorney Drawz.
ABSENT: Co,anc i lm4n Nei 1 s
Rev. Oas, Pastor of'Greenwood Baptist Church gave the .nvoeation.
Mayon Hi lde ,welcomed evoyone''for the storm skewer hearingfor the area
eiround Al and ; Co:nty Road 6. +
PUB LIHEARING -, PRaJVC T 213 - TRUNK/HIGHWAY 101'& COUNTY 4 OAD 6
AkEA STORM,, SEWER' A ayor Hilae introduced met pers ofthe' CQitr.,:i1 and
staff, to the citizens. mayor Hild;e gave a general reading of the
agenda and explsinee that impiovethent projects receive Council atten-
tion:a as a result of citizens' rci uosts and petitions, a 3 well as
requests by the Village staff. Then 0 4'Council and staff rare-
fully study and evaluate a large r:umber of rdje.cs; -this p pce lure
end assigning a ranking ur priority number to each -- .,• impbIrtance
to ,rhe "community. Those receiving highes,,t priority will ha,.o a
Uoliminary engineering report pprepar4d, The next si p of Lonaidera-
ion is q public hearing. Fol,bwing the public !:oaring ttie Council,
decides.,whather to proceed in -wholq or in part, to defer o:. drop
ccinlsibration of the particular ptdject,. No decision will be made
to but we will Carefully evaluate everything we have learned
as a result of this hearing and in about throe weeks decide what to
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Managor Willis explained that the staff and the"C%....ncil seek to pro -
perk notify all -es.idet s in a proposed public improvement area of the
fact that'an imp.«.event is being contemplated that would benefit
them. Accordingly t,,,e Village publishes notices in the Wayzata -
Ply:: a+nth-Minnet-n a Sun, the , pff inial newspaper for the Village of
Plymouth, as required by law; written n04-iices were also sent to thb
property owners of record according rect.us of Hennepin County
Auditur,
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Astsiuming that a project ihay be ordered at some point in time and this
r boing a Ub,l,ic improvemont project the costs of which are essessed
s to benefiting property, a,da,y will come sometime later when the
Council will again meet Va discuss how these costs will in fact be
shared, based or, the actual costs of the particular project. Prior
xo the time an assessments may be lejiod, an additiona'public
hearing would gave to be held, a hearing such as we're having tonight.
In that instance, we would h&Or r. through the same process of
notifying all theproperty owners that wee wore proposing i;o levy an
an assessment on their property, Pollowt g the public assessment
heaving the W4un6l would adopt the special assessment roll spreading
the cost of the pruiect and at that time the'proparty owners would
have 30 days in which to pay their tonal assessment in full without
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Pag_,2, Regular Meeting, March 20, 1972
the ,acc:.Lal,of any is terest. After 30 days. following the date of the
adoption, ok,,the! roll, ;interest would begin to acc' iUe to your assesl,-
ment bill. All prepalmonts in any year, thel first year or subsequent
year, would have to be made'to the Village by thece 15th day of Novembere3chyear` if you want' to a;roid the penalty of interest for that 'year
as well as the year,f;)llowirLg. Under the State statutes the Village
certifies to the CoWlty Auditor the special assessments for the
given year by. No 45th of,,the ppreceding year. For instance,
the,assessments that would be paid by the,lSth of November, 1972,,
would not appear on the tax'statements in 1973'. However,'if they
do appear, on ,t'4e tax' statement, the interest is pro -rated and collected
for, the entire calendar year,,even`ythough .it's paid during the early
part of the year. Therefore,wo,try'to stress to citizens they should
remember the date of November 15th of any year to pay assessments.
Phrager Willis presented the problemt . land waterprc,ofi.ng and -Its
coRsequenr,es and showed slides of the area during the past tv"rent'i*,
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Page 3, Regular Meeting, March 20, 1972
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in these pictures again when you have a'storm sewer'sVstem, it does not
work, open or closed, when those pipes are frozen and p oblem is that
the pipes are frozen and runoff areas are frozen so your new stormsewersareonlygoingtobeasgoodat. the guys with the blow torches
to open these sewers before the problem arises.
Mr. Tom Ritchie 17615D - 11th Avenue North. I live in Zone 1 and we
were recently assessed for sewer and water and in that area *he
assessments ran up $2700 to $3000. We have estimates r:. running it
to the house from $700 to $900 giving us'a figure of $3400 to $3900.
Do you think they can afford to keep up these payments? No alternative --
pay it or move..
Mr, Harry Warren, 171"5 -13th Avenue North. The first gentleman asked
you, "Is it not true or does it. not benefit the whole problem if the
total area you're talking about of 101 and 6 was all residential
rAther thin commercial?" I think that's a valid question.
Mayor Hilde: We realize that certai.ntypes of development will cause
more runoff. Everyone who has developed in the area has and is con-
trbuting to any flooding problem that there may be. Assessment rates
are higher for commercial. As part of our consideration that more
rur.:ff is caused by certain developments, we have a policy which.,1
believe we adopted a couple of years ago whereby we assess the cnmmorcial,
industrial and multiple developments, at a rate two and one-half times
the rate that a single family homeowner would be assessed. Mr.,Warren:
Has one of your considerations been what the effect would be. -91'+he
commercial zoning was residential as it would pertain Tts the ssv:.r
problem and the water problem only? Mayor Hilde: No, because >,.'s
already zoned,
Mr. William Johnson, 17715D - 11th Avenue North. Is the ponding area
north of 6 adequate to handle the amount of waterproofing? (West of 101,
North of County Road 6) Mayor Hilde: According to the engineer, it
is necessary to drain that pond to the south. Mr. Johnson: Also
creating a ponding area in Pinetree; talking about going over to Hadley
Lake and using that as a ponding area. Flow many feet can you raise
this lake? blow much of the swamp area, how much of the natural
character are we going to destroy?
Mr. Joe green, 1810 Olive Lane North. In reviewing the map, Area 2, 1
would lUe to know specifi_c`1y what is the problem with point t to
point ,; here we've got two open fieldb with a lot of laterals and
drainage going to an area that's basically undeveloped at this point.
Another point I would like to know, if the documents submitted as you
began tholmoeting could be made public to the group AS such, specifically,
the ;area iu be developed by Super Valu, Mayor Hilde: Yes, they aro
public rotords. Engineer Rudrud: The portion from C thru 1) and across
6 to the poled between Olive and Mcrrimac is to relieve that area and to
control elovlation of that pond so that the water will not get upto
flooding Vie homes. There is an existing culvert going over to Olive
or probubl r Merrimac and the proposed extensions mast to 101 in that
area are 6' pick up waters that do pond on the northerly odge certain
times of the yoar anti to provide drainage for that property when it
develops.
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Page 4, Regular Meeting, March 20, 1972
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Mr. Gordon R. Metcalf, 2030 Urbagi)ale Lane. I'm one of the residents
on top of the hill. Concerned primarily with sewer from I to H. Would
appear to me the photographs that were displayed showed'a certain
degree of unfortunate runoff. Seems to me that under the sewer and
water project of a couple summers ago there should have been a certain
engineering concept showing the cn-rb and gutter of the street and I
would suspect that this should have been designed so that the water
would have run off. Unfortunate to have to face $100,000 assessment
for seven catch basins to pickup water that may have been an error of
the contractor.
Mr. Ken Decamp, 2020 Urbandale Lane. Two things: One, I think from:
the slides and amount of people who came here haven't proved that we
have a flooding, -problem. Secondly, I just moved a year ago from a town
that assessed me for storm sewers., I .think you have ,to be able to
guarantee that spending $540,000 will really solve the problem. Do we
have a problem?
Mr. Charles P. Duggan, 17510 Sth Avenue North. I live on"Sth Avenue
North -- have been over there 18 years, from there, up to about 10th
o: 11th, north of us, I don't know of a time that they've ever been
bothei:.;d with water. So I don't see why we should be assessed for
the storm sewer.
J. 0. Cox, 18135 - 8th Avonf_.- North. I Is'Je on Block 1 of t. a Fazendin-
Krogness Addition which is close to point '1 -- enters into H$dloy Lake.
While this project may be of benefit to some . t does ciuse ecologicial
concern to others, myself included. The proposed trunk line from 8th
Avenue runs south and then vest into Hadley Lake, runs around the peri-
meter of my lot through trees and through a spring -fed pond where we
keep ducks, pheasants and so on. And then it goes west to Dr. Plimpton's
land through a large grove of spruce trees. So, as I say, along with
this project, there would be some problems created as well as solutions.
Mr. Roger Barnes, 18420D - 13th Avenue North, I would like to address
you for a minute from three different points of view, if I may, first,
I'd like to talk to you as Chairman of the Plymouth homeowners Joint
Council, secondly,as President of Hadley Hills Homeowners Assoc, tion
and thirdly,as an individual home owner, first I would like to read
a resolution that was passed at a meeting of the'Plymouth Joint Home-
owners Council on February 29th, Resolution reads as follows: "Resolved
that the Plymouth Joint homeowners Council backs the position of the
O:Ikwuod Hills Association against the storm sewer project. That
resolution was passed by Jcint Homeowners Council which is made up of
m1mbecship urganizatinns of Lost Lake Homeowners, Creekwood Heights,
I1,1n7',-ial Hills, Hawthorne bonds, Zachary Lane, Birchwood Estates, North-
e:1st Parkers Lake Homeowners, Maplede;l, Hadley Hills, Oakwood Hills,
and Bass Lake, I would like at this time to depart .from ordinary pro-
codiiru and yield the floor that I now hold to Mr. Bob Johnson if you
would stipulate that I could return to the floor, he is the president
of Oakwood Homeowners Association,
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Page S, Regular Meeting, March 20, 197?
Mr. :obert W. Johnson, 1815 Merrimac Lane North. I have in my hand
petitions'signed by four hundred and some odd people in your areas 1,
27 3, 4 ind portions of S. Petitions read as follows: "We, the
undersigned, be free holders and/or residents of the Village of
Plymouth, County of Hennepin, State of Minnesota, do hereby declare
our opposition to Improvement Project 213, otherwise knorm as CASH 6
Arei l"torm Sewer and'du hereby notify the Village of Plymouth,, its
agents and employees, and the members of the Village Council, including
the Mayor, of our opposition to said improvement, its commenc!tment,
inception and implementation.'" We hold that Area 1, going from D to
G, we believe, is drained in cpposite direction from which it should be
drained; that in fact it might b2 more feasible for you to drain it into
Kraetx Lake and actually cheaper. we have natural drainage and it is
cpen; have had some of the Council members there in the'last few days
and we walked through there and it is open; don't believe that this
particular part of the project is necessary. To the south'there is a
natural Swale that leads to the east going under 101 and across into
Gleason Lake and that this is a much cheaper procedure. We kind of
question the total expense of this whole project; if it is in fact
necessary at all; or if it is necessary, whether there aren't many
alternative ways which are much cheaper.
Mayor Hilde: Thank you; you made a number of good points, Agree that
the Homeowners Associations are in a position to do us and the citizens
an invaluable service. Appreciate the work that you do and wish that
you ;could be even more involved, come to more meetings, As fsr'as the
alternative way, basically there are a couple of stages, which we
consider alternatives. The first stage is the Council's general, consid-
eration of a problem; we consider thii.Ss in a very general way. Then
the next step, is if we order a p:climinary report, the engineer himself
gives thought of various ways of doing it. He has at his disposal
topography mars, he goes out ;nto the field and plants stakes and does
u preliminary job of engi;ieering and he considers various ways of doing
it. Then he comeli to us witr usually one way sometimes he'll have
a few alternatives, if he feels that that's tfie best approach to
the Council. Then the Council studies the preliminary report and if
wo think that on the basis c": what we read and saw by going to the
field, and before we have a public hearing, if we feel there should be
further study, we do it. After the public hearing is considered we have
the basis for more ways of doing things; more discussion and more
thought given to it. At this point, because I've had visits with the
staff and the Council and I can assure you that some of tha ioints
that you made,and others preceding; you, are going to be considered and
we're going to ask for some new ways of doing things. What we've got
to do though is consider the places where we know there are problems,
assess how bad the problem is, what is the cheapest, lowest cost way
of solving it'd You're helping us with alternatives which we are going
to consider,
hfr. Royer Barnes, 18420L1 - 13th Avenue North, First, I would like to
10 ermine, if 1 may, just ;specifically how the storm sewer study was
ordorod. You explained at the beginning of the meeting that a
resolution was passed ordering the study, The point that I'm interested
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Page 6, Regular Meeting, March 20, 1972 ,
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n is, was the consulting engineer ordered to make the study? Yes.
Was he ordered to make a study or to present alternatives? Mayor
Hilde: In this case there had already been a preliminary study done.
is that right, Howard? Councilman Hunt: T can recall somewhat the
wording of the resolution because it was explicitly pointed out that
a detailed study had been done by Wefald 6 Associates when they were
the consulting engineers of the Village of Plymouth and it was•cailed
out in the A„esolution that all cf the work that was useable that had
been paid for by the Village of Plymouth in this study and for which a
public }rearing hbd been held in 1966 be put to as good a use as
possible and maybe we'd spend another $25 to finish,the preliminary as
I recall. Mr. Barnes: I understand there were preliminary reports;
my real question, were those reports considered in this report to
the Council? It appears to me that the report to the Council that I
read very quickly last night, it didn't appear there was any reference
to the previous reports or studies. Were other alternative drainage
plans considered for this report? Mayor Hilde: Otto? Yes, there
were alternatives reviewed. As a matter of fact, one of them that's
been Orought out is --why doesn't the water from 10th Avenue go to
Gleason Lake. 'rhe reason it doesn't, is that it was more economical to
pick it up the way we did inthis report. Why wasn't the water run into
Kraetz Lake? For the spme reason. It is more economical to bring it
the way we're bringing it. And as far as the reports that were available,
they're in our files; we did review them. Mr. Barnes: A number of
times somecne referred to the flooding problem that we have and we've
seen that people who are in trouble haven't been brave enough to come
forward to speak. Tho question is; I would like a specific definition
of what the trouble is and I would like to know specifically how many
hones are in that trouble? Mayor Hilde: I'm not sure we can answer all
of that now. As to a specific definition of wh:.t the flooding is, I'd
like to ask, perhaps Otto Bonestroo and John Draw:, our attorney,to define
this as best we can off the cuff. Mr. Barnes: Perhaps define a ten
year storm, 20 year storm and a 100 year storm in the process. Ott,)
Bonestroo: Design is based on the des-*.gn for a storm that would occur
once in ten years; that is the trunk sewers, laterals, etc. and have
an intensity of 2” per hour. However, the holding p+)nds which are the
large 17 1/2 acres required for the Pinetree :storage pond that was
designed on the assumption that it would hold a 100 year storm. That
a storm would >iccur once in a 100 years and we normally have used
e=ither 50 or IOU years;but there's so little: difference between the
two; it's like about approximately 4" of rai i occurring in an hour.
Mayor Hilde: Mr. 1lruwz, i would like to ask ycu what constitutes flood-
ing through the eyes of an attorney representing th", Village or citizens.
Mr. Draw-,:: Mr. Mayor, I th' "
Sl•- .,,-
i saw sone examples Uig the slides,
Mr. Barnes, I'm sure you aaw therm too, of sections P).c streets that were
flooded that pose traffic problems in terms of air i lents which is A
proper concern of the Village. The flooding which ;:curs near the
sides of those streets also concerns the Village fi om a health stand-
point. 'Cha village has an ohligation to provide for the health, welfare,
and then s:efe%. of the citizens of the Village and while there are people ,
wao uro not affected with thoso on their property; nevertheless, i;: is
tho responsibility of the Council to take caro of all the citizens,
iiicludng those citi .ens who are bothered by these things Mayor 11ilde:
Does that responsibility extend to someone who would have water running
Into their hesoment, for example? Attorticv 11rawz: That is cn;rect.
In some instances, this causes health problems. 'rhore's no quostion but
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page 7, Regulir Meeting, MArch 20, 1972
that the Village has a responsibility to abate the cause of health problems; 4
and whether it..' -s floodiiij and it .ciuses sewage to back up an4 to clow
onto the streAs.onto othar land, this creates a health.prob;em and'there
is a respcnpib.ility. Mr. .garnes: ' At 1 correct in understanding %'that.
you cannot identify tonight --.which would• be the first home to flood t
after a rain of 'ex" amount aX water per hour which would be !'the second
home to' flood, winch would be the third. and s .dn. Mayor Hire: ,
We perhaps would not take this time tonight to go through all that but
I think it might be good to indicate some of t1:j • cireas An a g;4neral way ,
that have been flooierd and I 1.onder if we couldn't draw upon Ron,
Ron Rudrud: The 014ve-Merrimac Fond that we mentioned earlier had a
problem in 165 and 171; there are two homes on'the east sidei.of that
pond .that were very close to the backup' last year; we set up pumps and'
pumped for a very short time. There is a home on tht south'side of,
6th, in P inetrea; as far as I know, there has net been any direct problem
with the church on the southeast side, but it is very. close;',the 101
ares north of 13th on the east side was inundated last spring; on the
west side of '101 theMe was a home that had a coiisidefable amount of
iter in thu basement because of .floodage of the yard and street areas.
There is one linme in the area on the -south end of Pinetree Chat has
had water in the basement on s4veral o.nasions and another home that,
this gentleman informs us, has had the same problem that I was not
aware of until just this last week. Mr. Barnes: Would you be able
to craw a circle; on my map to identify where these homes are after
this meeting? k^n: Yes, I would. Councilman Hunt: I guess my
rotollce elon in 1965 in the massive pumping •iperation that went- on for
sercral dugs in 1965 was to relieve the Olive and Merrimac Lane ponding
area; t`ec; wa.Y to relieve it was to ;:ump it across the road and it ran
down into Pinntrt pond and ac a result raised the elevation of PinULree
Pond fur w•h4ch the Pillage got inv )lved in a lawsuit. 1 remember that
a number if propertimis down there did flood up on the yard; as to how
many hau 1•asL-ment water problems, C don't know. At that time the :.ain
problem w::s on Mimrrimac and Olive; ve have had considerable problems
the 3tegh thu% veartz on the intersuction of 101 witf, Olive, 10th, 11th,
12th, unik" 13th --the slide; we sll•%wed was very typical of what happens
there on tLose: intersections wi,h either a heavy rain an the summer
or tho runoff in t;:,; spring, and I gues.. the safety aspect of the Pillage,
particularly intur.we;ctiotts, is something to be concerned with.
Mr. Barnes: no we hava a polio: acc:iden.t rocord that gives us e.n
indicatin of an, Vicrease of accidents because of iv:- or or ice an tho
road during that p,.riod of time? Councilman Hurt: N '1 cannot cito
any, Mr, Barnes., Fes you Probably imagined before• you ikod tho question.
The Mayl)r refo, •%%I to a letter from 11on Chi,llstrom whu lives at 280 Queens-
land La.to and who,%!% hume thea Mayer w:tis at u few- hours :ego; if you have
our m.up there:, inlL.at want to drive by anti look at his situation; lie
as rctjuostod reli.;
riI.
Mr, Hames: Is it my uniLtrrstandin); thIt tlrti
Pinocre:st storm sower program as trusente d to you on theast, m;rps could
roncuiwably be reduced' t think you said earlier this e\•, -;ing that there
would not bt, another opportunity for anothar public mvot.';t; oxc:ept .t
the ussessmunt houring.. Is that correct? Mayor Ililde.: Yo , althuugE
there is another type of muuting that wn've hold in the past. If it
sed lues E„lvi:tab.i a tn the Council, we could hold this typr of mhet ing ;
that iii, t1lat -Followiet this moloting the Coeencil will probably in a
v-ory short purlod of time, perhaps tho .noxt mmol i ng, talk about this
From :he standpoLl-it of gleaninb from the minus as and punt re cords and
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page 7, Regulir Meeting, MArch 20, 1972
that the Village has a responsibility to abate the cause of health problems; 4
and whether it..' -s floodiiij and it .ciuses sewage to back up an4 to clow
onto the streAs.onto othar land, this creates a health.prob;em and'there
is a respcnpib.ility. Mr. .garnes: ' At 1 correct in understanding %'that.
you cannot identify tonight --.which would• be the first home to flood t
after a rain of 'ex" amount aX water per hour which would be !'the second
home to' flood, winch would be the third. and s .dn. Mayor Hire: ,
We perhaps would not take this time tonight to go through all that but
I think it might be good to indicate some of t1:j • cireas An a g;4neral way ,
that have been flooierd and I 1.onder if we couldn't draw upon Ron,
Ron Rudrud: The 014ve-Merrimac Fond that we mentioned earlier had a
problem in 165 and 171; there are two homes on'the east sidei.of that
pond .that were very close to the backup' last year; we set up pumps and'
pumped for a very short time. There is a home on tht south'side of,
6th, in P inetrea; as far as I know, there has net been any direct problem
with the church on the southeast side, but it is very. close;',the 101
ares north of 13th on the east side was inundated last spring; on the
west side of '101 theMe was a home that had a coiisidefable amount of
iter in thu basement because of .floodage of the yard and street areas.
There is one linme in the area on the -south end of Pinetree Chat has
had water in the basement on s4veral o.nasions and another home that,
this gentleman informs us, has had the same problem that I was not
aware of until just this last week. Mr. Barnes: Would you be able
to craw a circle; on my map to identify where these homes are after
this meeting? k^n: Yes, I would. Councilman Hunt: I guess my
rotollce elon in 1965 in the massive pumping •iperation that went- on for
sercral dugs in 1965 was to relieve the Olive and Merrimac Lane ponding
area; t`ec; wa.Y to relieve it was to ;:ump it across the road and it ran
down into Pinntrt pond and ac a result raised the elevation of PinULree
Pond fur w•h4ch the Pillage got inv )lved in a lawsuit. 1 remember that
a number if propertimis down there did flood up on the yard; as to how
many hau 1•asL-ment water problems, C don't know. At that time the :.ain
problem w::s on Mimrrimac and Olive; ve have had considerable problems
the 3tegh thu% veartz on the intersuction of 101 witf, Olive, 10th, 11th,
12th, unik" 13th --the slide; we sll•%wed was very typical of what happens
there on tLose: intersections wi,h either a heavy rain an the summer
or tho runoff in t;:,; spring, and I gues.. the safety aspect of the Pillage,
particularly intur.we;ctiotts, is something to be concerned with.
Mr. Barnes: no we hava a polio: acc:iden.t rocord that gives us e.n
indicatin of an, Vicrease of accidents because of iv:- or or ice an tho
road during that p,.riod of time? Councilman Hurt: N '1 cannot cito
any, Mr, Barnes., Fes you Probably imagined before• you ikod tho question.
The Mayl)r refo, •%%I to a letter from 11on Chi,llstrom whu lives at 280 Queens-
land La.to and who,%!% hume thea Mayer w:tis at u few- hours :ego; if you have
our m.up there:, inlL.at want to drive by anti look at his situation; lie
as rctjuostod reli.;
riI.
Mr, Hames: Is it my uniLtrrstandin); thIt tlrti
Pinocre:st storm sower program as trusente d to you on theast, m;rps could
roncuiwably be reduced' t think you said earlier this e\•, -;ing that there
would not bt, another opportunity for anothar public mvot.';t; oxc:ept .t
the ussessmunt houring.. Is that correct? Mayor Ililde.: Yo , althuugE
there is another type of muuting that wn've hold in the past. If it
sed lues E„lvi:tab.i a tn the Council, we could hold this typr of mhet ing ;
that iii, t1lat -Followiet this moloting the Coeencil will probably in a
v-ory short purlod of time, perhaps tho .noxt mmol i ng, talk about this
From :he standpoLl-it of gleaninb from the minus as and punt re cords and
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Page 8, Regular Meeting, March 20, 1972`
platting on maps in,color code fashion; everything we \an dredge up
about this project., Then we will give certain directioi to the staff
to develop some alternatives for us. When these alteYna,.ive3 come
back, not; only engineering alternatives but ,also ass"essmeat alte'r;natiues,
it mig4t 'be we -11 to, meet with a few neighbors. to a 5itua!,ion where
alternatives are radically differ -ant, Council would probably wand to
hold another public hearing, Mr'. Barney: Would like to dirkt you're_,
atte'oion and the'attention #)T the Count;il Tombers .to the map-in the
aPrea just east of Hadley Mills starting apFro.cimately behind L6a'6 > jU' the eastern ,block on tho south end.'' 't'h is ':.rescent shaped pi6!:e,
o:° high ground w lch some of my tleighbo,XQ tend, to believe reduces `,th'e
SS amount of flowage from the Hadle, JHzlls,area to whn;t would be nowj
cal,lod the proposed,, Pinetree pond.. Th:yr say ,the ;ares to the wast btizy.''
very well act as a holding pond' in itseif; and there is some g4pstioiiy
on their part as to just how much water the entire Hadley Hill. area
contributes to the drainage problem. Whitt I would ask is whey there
is an enginceeriecg study to consider other al ternacives and whether
there is drainage that actua4ly passes past -hat crescent 'sh aped area-,
and see if an assessment can bs'made regatdi,! what the contribution
of the flooding problem that people aro ex eriencing, what percentage
of that comes from the Hadloy klill,s area? from a purely ersonal ppoint
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of view I'd like to direct our atte)ition too the map again; you' 11' notice
the western ooundary of the drainage d1s rict area parses up through
C. Hadley tlills and splits Vngtlbond Lane and e'r osses 13th Avenue and'
Nisrcts a to*; that is my lot. (Also desci'iboddother lots.) I would
tike to request that the study that is;'made is carefully -'conducted when
it Cnneer ns those lrts; also the most/' noether; ly lot probably would be
interested in the same problem, This` cut line look.et tike a SO% split
and 1 would guess that maybe I'm contributing 25$,
John Dowers, 18210 -19th Avenue North, It seems tO me that we redl'1y
have two problems, Expenditure of money -- and then locking at the
prefect itself, we have two problems, (1) the orde ly collection of water
s and, (2) then orderly disposal or water, The later 1s seem to me to fall
in the first category; ponding in the latter. I would like to address
myself to the Imperial Hills lateral,. Obviously tie three drains that
are scheduled to go on 19th Avenue North are right; out in front of my
property, Wuter now runs right dowit the street, 5o far as I can deter-
mine the only purpose lit ea -tending that lateral uppi to 19th is to make
the project somewhat palatable to the residents of Imperial Wills, If
the lateral in ,Imperial 111115 serves at+yone, It serves the developer
who will one duv develop the undeveloped area that;is really served by j
the lateral, Tho entire area south of i cony Lane is unplatted, The j
entire cost shuuld be that of the de;vclopor, since;it strikes me
that these catch basins carry the flow Frtnm there.
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Mr. Jere X. liricson, 2200 Urbundaly Lano. 'Seems tri me, we have a very
definite prul)lum I.n identlf ind we do peau aroij6m. Are we talking
five Homes, cure wo talking 1S, what are wo to king's
Mr, Donald H. Johnson, 18025 - 19th Aventee Pi:yrth. 1,lojre tonight because j
we have, a problom, although some two or the too hundred of us don't think
We 1'wvc'; a problem. The hypothesis is that we have h storm sewer problem;
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Page 9, Regular Meeting, March 20, 1972
we don't; it's" basically a flood control problem. A limited number
of homes are affected, very few; we haven't heard the cost of the ithoaxes; haven't heard the cost of the damage to the homea.; we have a
cost of $S40,0O0 to put in storm sewers, Most of the homes around`
Pinetree Pond,where the main problem is,supposed to be are quite higli,
Boit way of soiVing this problem `ia by open drainage. Keep the water
above the surfatile and get a better flow, Area 1 go to Highway,101
and walk dowWit; look to the right and left, Water flows, if it.,
could, to the a st" Jhe highway blocks the natur'', flow. Thseefore,
wouldn't is t e conceivable to let the water go across I01 r d, hast trap
it and force it tb. go back north? Uon't rut more water into Pinetree
Pond than s,, oulc belongg there. Then if we g^.,up to Area 2, north ,of
where thisComme. cial development it, the area there now naturally
lows toward Kraetz rfl,ske. We're turning around and pickilla some of
that up and shoving ,i t. , to little Merrimac v nd and in turn s,eand ing that
down to Pinetree po&7d. "where we already had* to pump, Let's send it
back t%i,'Kraetz, Arc,a 3, Impericil. where I happpen to reside,
Put a nice catch basin right in freut of Mr. Powers house. tie said
he doe,sn't need :ne; he's at the upper end of the drainage rea; only
a few lots past him is where :t's cut off; water now comas' own'the
i street past m house, As ;'uu come off this catch basin on 15th Aven(le
and go down through the woos there, undeveloped land, that's tihe whole
problem; that peice of `sowor'`here cost $100,000. None of us_has a
praZ)lem t}aero, I ogres with Mr. Hardenberg in regard to culverts and
i catch busies; mos: of them are not functional at. tho *81mc of the year
when we need thum the most; As .long as this water can be kept above
lround the br-ttor off we urn. Mayor 1111do: One thing that I think
aserves a response was the concern that the Village ought;to have
for the effective development of waterways, I'm happy to ,say that we've
become v bit more sophisticated in those ureas and are spending more,
effort and on$inuorinR time to uvalua,te plats that dome in both on the
Planning Commission and staff lovols. Ono other point is'that rho
V ilego Council has adopted a policy as pertains to Bassett Creek; we
doritl,ed that ws Wanted to pond as much water as we could and keep it
iii Plymouth, Also tha Council is very open -ditch minded,j Sime specifir
things that wa,aro going to give consideration to:
1. Goin to quastion the Meed for, and timingof, the 101 trunk, Also
the losign of it. We're going to take a ookatGleasonLake,
2. Ii° you can locatri point A &,B we'd 1 Ue to open ditch that line if
It's necessary, as much as p4ss blo, it wo can; we're going to
look,at going oast to Glensoli take, ,
3. Open ditch A 6 13 ns much as po$s tblo, lower the cost, and possibly
improve aesthetics,
4, Can 101 trunk run south rather than north?
S. Can we defy Area 03, which is the Imperial Hills ai4ea?
b r,un we allow Arqu 2 to do its own project, plus sharel in the cost
u.f point X? In o0or words have them J.o their own ,coastruction and
share in the cost of :onvuying From thorn.
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Page 10, ,, equla1r Meeting, March 20, 19y2 ti
7, Let the, Sch ctitr`,pi of ect do its own plus pay fora, to A and get
credit for -10' vo r6izing if necessary of - D,, to E,
Sheldon Tart, 180.5 Shadyview Lan: , Original 4evelo \ ant contract
required storm sewer by developer. (Imperial, Hills 1 Second poi.4t, ,
the two,proporties which are going to ba developed wil,J fall under
that same category. ,. Confused by the amount' of :.:,oney a"lottbd fo,r trunk. If you,look at Item 1 of your project for`cos-tiing, you'll find the out
fall defined s $125,000 -- Point'A to,B, As I understand it,that's
the trunk,' I'd like,,some) explanation 3f what `the other trunk costs are
in, the project. Ron Rudiud: Tho, other portions of what are inclxided
trunk costs -are at Point H on the map, the crossing of County
Road 6 t6 pick vp Quieniland and, .Imperial Hilis; Points- C to D; and up\
to the point described as X; And from D around to,the Schiebe property;
crossing 101, Mr,.Tart: In effect then, the trunks are the Schi be
property pipes and'a little big to serve the Merrimac pond, Shelcoft'
fart: The only time thalt• any old timer recalls that a rlowage ever
occurred out of'the'Pinetree Pond is that it did .flow to Gleason Lkke
in 19S2. The natural flowage then is established 'at whatever level
it had to happ rn to make that water flow; I question the need then
to actually ec u.ire land; in 'S2 the flowage was several feet higher
than it is now. The natural flowage then to the south under flood
conditions doesn't back cross two homes; they're small homes, relatively
small ha;pos, $2S,000 or $30v000'homes, Often heard about buying the
huuses.,:.nstead of buying -the pipe. In this case, I really seriously
wonder -if that shouldn't be the solution. Maybe they can be raised,
cc Mi=ned or p,.otected in some way. Natural t1owage is 'to the south
uad*r flood conditions,
Mr, itllen Fryberger, 1782S -19th Avenue North. Conversation tonight
has, been directed back to this Merrimac ;end Olivc Lake pond continually,
U -oily time we have,had runoffs or any danger of flooding has been in
the spring, Evidently it still ap ears we're goin to have to put
some pumping equipment in this pond and change the static w,,,ter level
In the area to draw the water tables down. These costs I ,t sure,
have not been reflected in estimates, I'm sure it would increase
the projected'amount of costs. I think this should be %.ersilered,
Mr. Warren J. Davis, 1615 Merrimac Lane, Will be real brief; Mr.'Fry- berger covered some of `he issues. for the record I live on the Olive
Merrimac pond, I'm probably one,of the throe lowest houses in there.
It's my understanding.that the water level in the Pinecrest pnnd is
higher than that in the pond ad3acint to any property, Now I was a'little
concerned in looking at the draw3.ng how you figured you were going
to gat water on a natural Clow from the Merrimac pond over the Pine -
crest pond. If you have a backup of water inrhineerest, I'm going to
get flooded.
Mr •7c::r Lafoun, 181; 00 County toad 6. Seems to me that no one can
afford to build a s tgrm sewer to tako care of the 100 veba; event. It
seems to me that we 1 4c dory
presently trying to Lake cage' of this
situation so wo cai11 pL,t in two shopping centers, Wound it not be better
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18025 -12th Avenue North, on your pond acquisition
38,000 and nobody has spoken for Area 5 which ttnfortunately, is
mostly us.
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somowhsre in ne,=,ghnorhood
of $38,000 for this project,
to,run "a conduit at their expense down 6th and go to the eas.tl)of
6th)or'101 and go to the east into the lake there and the natural
drainage than to come all the way back and around all up, through the
other Area 3• Area S which presently doesn't have any roblem and won't
have any problem until,such time as we cover up those two areas. How
were these areas arrived at? Ron Rudrud: The areas ar6 determined
by taking s contour map,and determining what the natur,il drainage
areas are. The areas are,,then corrected for changes that have been
made to 'the topography. ' Studies are made of different possible
alternate solutions'. They may involve taking in somyy" areas,that are
not naturally within these areas to obtain the most economical over-
all solution.. This, as Mr. Bonestroo has pointed ott, is proposed
on 101, where an area would be redirected to the Nq theto save cost.
I'd like to strclss one other thing. These boundaries are approximate.
The Qutside boundaries'and the internal boundaries between the
sections 1, ,_Ptr,, would be re -defined more accurately if this
project was ordered.
Mr. David Johnson, 1743S -County Road'6. Repre-0ent kind of an exctusi've
little clique just east of 101; we're a bit confused as to the water,
flow, About 4 or S years ago the Garland Land storm sewer came through
and we were assessed for,water going to'the,east'of Garland Lane.
Now we see, in our confusion, the water's g6ing the other ,ray.
Mayor Hilde: teat me quickly assure you that you will not be assessed
twice.
Mr. Jack Cyres, 1762S -10th Avenue North. It's been mentioned hdre
tonight Zhat we can't really put our finger on how many homes are
actually affected by atter problems. It would seem to me that in
establishing a program that this would be the -first thingKaven"t
ou'd look
at. Mayor Hilde: Hoer can we do that, Mr, fiyyres, wh.n we had
uulic hearing ,:s.t11 now'? Also been hr.ought, up that really the
only time we had r -problem was in 1965 ansa it's not really a storm sewer
problem but a flo6i control problem.
Mr. Robert Mitchell, 2030 Queensland Lane. Beep discussing a proposed
improvement tonight. I woul add that the map'of the Pnd is the
proposed pond and not the existing pond. Council has the duty to
show where the problems are. None of the people appeared toniiht who
are bothered by this. Vtis hearing is to go over the engineer s
report; I don't think that this report is of sufficiently perfected
quality. You've offered that this will have additional study. I am
saggesttng that this hearing be adjourned and not ,losed at this time,
studies bel,made rnd hearing re -opened so we, the public, can have a
docent hearing on what -this plan is going to be when the facts are
fully brought out.
Nancy Hardenbergh, 18025 -12th Avenue North, on your pond acquisition
38,000 and nobody has spoken for Area 5 which ttnfortunately, is
mostly us.
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I think that our pond area would probably be running a.bQut
bo 6alongth% pond, our tuxes would somowhsre in ne,=,ghnorhood
of $38,000 for this project,
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Page 12, Regular Meeting, March 20, 1972
Mr. Alan Larson, 1305 S1.4dyview .Lane, 'I believe that we do have'a
ponding problem. I see. in the future - - Schiebe t,s pr'operty aik
Super Valu =-when thele two areas are developed, I,believe we will
hari'another hearing, because I believe these two areas will cause
h,pjreat,problem to us. Mr. Barne Let's assume that some kind
of proje'et,is approved and there„sre assessments, is that considered
an improvetaent of tho property, which v. -could improve its value for tax
assessment purposes? Manager_,,Villis: , No,
Mayor Hilde ,Counc,i;l will take thi"s, up over the course -of the next
few weeks and try t'dispose of it'in a ver' sound manner. rr pp ,
Asked'the Council:,l.Would vUu see any, -benefit to continuing the
hearing Councilman Hunt: I , see none. Mayor 'Hilder' Will have 'a f
little discussion -And then )vi1.2 rjlr`e' the hearing but if we feel the
a need we'll pr,bbably have smother public i:eaving,
Mayor Hilde dirpc.oil the staff to do the following:
1. Prepare a color cooled map that sets forth all the problem areas
along with a lcg i%'A that would describe the extent of the
probleum in o,ach t. -hese areas.
2. Bring to the Council, a good draft of the Tr.utes of this meeting
with answers or Comments connected with the major points that
were made, Do a thorough job of this so that we can isolate out
the points that are critical foe discussion,
3. Re-evaluation of the need for and Lhe timing of the Highway 101
trunk, ,
4, Alternative preliminary report prepared on the basis t,f changing
the A -B trunk to predominantly open ditch which flows east to
Gleason Lame.`
S. If point 4 would seem not to be more feasible, then to pre are an
alternative A -B plan which would util 7” as mt?cli open ditching
as possible in order to lover, the cc,-,t#,Id imprnve ponsthe` ics
considering even so!ch things as curvl%.g waterways rather than a
straight line ditch thrbugh the wooded atess aaO re -planting
of as many trees as possible near to the waterways,
6. Considering running the water along 101 south rather than north,
7. Give strong consideration to the possibility of deferring Area 3
altogether,
8, develop thorough discussion on the possibility of allowing Area
2 to do its own project (prig• and cons theroof) ,
9. Give further strong considoration and develop pros and cons
alternative costs and assessment methods) of having Schiebe
do its own project,
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Mr. Alan Larson, 1305 S1.4dyview .Lane, 'I believe that we do have'a
ponding problem. I see. in the future - - Schiebe t,s pr'operty aik
Super Valu =-when thele two areas are developed, I,believe we will
hari'another hearing, because I believe these two areas will cause
h,pjreat,problem to us. Mr. Barne Let's assume that some kind
of proje'et,is approved and there„sre assessments, is that considered
an improvetaent of tho property, which v. -could improve its value for tax
assessment purposes? Manager_,,Villis: , No,
Mayor Hilde ,Counc,i;l will take thi"s, up over the course -of the next
few weeks and try t'dispose of it'in a ver' sound manner. rr pp ,
Asked'the Council:,l.Would vUu see any, -benefit to continuing the
hearing Councilman Hunt: I , see none. Mayor 'Hilder' Will have 'a f
little discussion -And then )vi1.2 rjlr`e' the hearing but if we feel the
a need we'll pr,bbably have smother public i:eaving,
Mayor Hilde dirpc.oil the staff to do the following:
1. Prepare a color cooled map that sets forth all the problem areas
along with a lcg i%'A that would describe the extent of the
probleum in o,ach t. -hese areas.
2. Bring to the Council, a good draft of the Tr.utes of this meeting
with answers or Comments connected with the major points that
were made, Do a thorough job of this so that we can isolate out
the points that are critical foe discussion,
3. Re-evaluation of the need for and Lhe timing of the Highway 101
trunk, ,
4, Alternative preliminary report prepared on the basis t,f changing
the A -B trunk to predominantly open ditch which flows east to
Gleason Lame.`
S. If point 4 would seem not to be more feasible, then to pre are an
alternative A -B plan which would util 7” as mt?cli open ditching
as possible in order to lover, the cc,-,t#,Id imprnve ponsthe` ics
considering even so!ch things as curvl%.g waterways rather than a
straight line ditch thrbugh the wooded atess aaO re -planting
of as many trees as possible near to the waterways,
6. Considering running the water along 101 south rather than north,
7. Give strong consideration to the possibility of deferring Area 3
altogether,
8, develop thorough discussion on the possibility of allowing Area
2 to do its own project (prig• and cons theroof) ,
9. Give further strong considoration and develop pros and cons
alternative costs and assessment methods) of having Schiebe
do its own project,
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PA Se 13,E%Regular-. -Meeting, March 20, 1972
Councilman Seibold: Also would like to have the staff run)topogs on
that area in Hadley Hills to see if that is the natural ponding area:
uouncilman Spaeth. Elevation of Pinetree pond at,which it would back
up into the Urbandale area? Councilman Seibold: Also that area east
of Merrimac which is Super .Valu areo, t!:. possibility of that draining
i :to Kraetz Leake Maybe this, is just, that I am confused.,about trunk_rt
and lateral_c ,an;i th,e. gusts assessed to each. I would like a real defi- '
nition of what we really mean by, trunks and laterals and asses'ment
costs
Councilman Hunt: One point -- l wovI d like further research done on the
comment that was -jade 6 the proposed ponding area, whether or not itis
considered a meandering ponding area,by definition because of having
flooded and whether there is an acquAs,irion problem or whether it is al-
ready a,meandering ponding area,
MOTION was made by Mayor Hild.e, t econded by Councilman Hunt, to close the
public hearing at this time (11:3.5 p.m.) and to direct the staff to do the
various things that were just enumerated. Motion carried, all ayes,
Attendance at public hearing was recorded as 263,
MOTION was made by Councilman Spaeth,''seconded by
Councilman Seibold, to adopt RESOLUTION NO, 72-1081
A RESOLUTICN AWARDING THE CONTRACT FOR CHELSEA WOODS
PHASE 2 - SEWER & WATER - TO NORTKDALE CONSTRUCTION
COMPANY in the amount of $11004S9.50., Motion carried
on roll call vote 3 aye.:, with Councilman Hunt
abstaining.
MOTION was made by Councilman Hunt, seconded by Council-
man Seibold, to adopt RESOLUTION NO, 72-1096 A RESOLUTION
AWARDING THE BI7 FOR A CATCH BASIN -MANHOLE CLEANER to
Afcr,UEEN EQUIPMENT COMPANY IN THE AMOUNT OF $120457,00.
Motion carried roll call vote all ayes,.
MOTION was made by Councilman Hunt, seconded by Council-
man Spaeth, to adjourn at 11:45 p.m,
RES. NO, 72-119
AWARD LUNTRACT
CHELSEA WOODS
PHASE 2 (Sewer
Water) NorthdAle
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RES. NO, 72-109
e
t%nmiu , D 1 u rvn
BATCH,BAS IN-MANHOLI
CLEANER to,McQueen
Equipment
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H1f ollAld
30 ;;DVIIIA
40L JJJ
SUPER UALU SYORESAC. ,
10 JERI1:RSON AVENNt SOUTH
r H"KINIA. MINNESOTA 58348
February 25% 1972 TEIRPMONE 938-3561/AREA 612
Mr. James G. Willis
VJ l 1 agc i'lanager
Village of Plymouth
1.13.800 01son Memorial Highway
Minneapol i s , Mi nnesok a 55427,
Re: Proposed Storm -,Sewer Project',)
County Road 6 and State Highway 101
Dear Mr, s:
We undQirst4nd chat the 'Village Cou6ci 1 has scheduled' a public hearing till
the above project For March 20th.,
Super Valu Stores, Int, is the fie owner of Tract C, RLS -1301, located
j on the west side of Highway 10( and north of County Road 6, We plan to
construct a 25,000 sq,ft, supermarket on this site and on February 16
appeared before the Planning Commission for fi3cil site plan approval. The
Planning Commission recomiiended approval of our site plan subject to
several condition:, one of which was that the storm drainage problem in
the vicinity of the site be solved or a project authorized before a building
permit is issued,
We hope td` Istart constrVction on our new store this spring and comple+r
it by late this fall, It is essential that the storm sewer project be
constructer) in order for us to develop our site. We therefore request
the Village Council to act favorably on this project,
SiVrely,
Manager
Engineering and Construction
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Mayor and Village Council
Plymouth Village Cffjces
Ws . Prebich, Village Clerk
13800 Olson ;emorlal Highway
Plymouth, Minnesota 550
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Mar6h 9, 1972
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Mayor and Village Council
Plymouth Village Cffjces
Ws . Prebich, Village Clerk
13800 Olson ;emorlal Highway
Plymouth, Minnesota 550
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Mar6h 9, 1972
Ret Mnicipal Improvement
Project x'213
Gentlement
I I:as most p:•eased in discussing Project 11213 with the bginvering
Departmernt, to find the careful and considered' planning which has
gone into it. It shows a thorough analysi3 of the situation and
a gehuino concern for the future of our area of P13rnouth. I feel,
that it is of the utmost importance to maintain overflow areas in
the series of pends involved, particularly in light of increased
runoff eau3cd by future development.
I am sure that you trill encounter ;strong opposition from groups of
taxpayers who quite naturalky oppose thi 3ssas ments . However, I
recall that then the sanitary se<..,or project was being considered,
the opposition was no less vahanont. I think time has proven that
the Council made n wise decision in spite of opposition, and that
tho entire villn; a has benefited iron the w_sden of that decision.
We have only to look to some of our nei ;hboring communitiesutnities to see
the economic effects of postponing eAtical decisions such as this.
I have been pleased in the past with the Ability of the Council to
make decisions which were in the public interest. I strongly urge
you to deal with Frofeet 0213 With an dye on the future rather than
an ear to the present.
Thank you for your attention.
Sincerely,
nL
Don A. Chillstrom
820 U Queonsl,.nd lane N.
Wayeata, Minnesota 55391
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Ret Mnicipal Improvement
Project x'213
Gentlement
I I:as most p:•eased in discussing Project 11213 with the bginvering
Departmernt, to find the careful and considered' planning which has
gone into it. It shows a thorough analysi3 of the situation and
a gehuino concern for the future of our area of P13rnouth. I feel,
that it is of the utmost importance to maintain overflow areas in
the series of pends involved, particularly in light of increased
runoff eau3cd by future development.
I am sure that you trill encounter ;strong opposition from groups of
taxpayers who quite naturalky oppose thi 3ssas ments . However, I
recall that then the sanitary se<..,or project was being considered,
the opposition was no less vahanont. I think time has proven that
the Council made n wise decision in spite of opposition, and that
tho entire villn; a has benefited iron the w_sden of that decision.
We have only to look to some of our nei ;hboring communitiesutnities to see
the economic effects of postponing eAtical decisions such as this.
I have been pleased in the past with the Ability of the Council to
make decisions which were in the public interest. I strongly urge
you to deal with Frofeet 0213 With an dye on the future rather than
an ear to the present.
Thank you for your attention.
Sincerely,
nL
Don A. Chillstrom
820 U Queonsl,.nd lane N.
Wayeata, Minnesota 55391
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Al 11i lde, Jr., Kiyor
17005 - 32nd Avenue North
Wayzata, Minnesota 55391
Dear Mayor 11ilde:
Iwo
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LA • t 001 t
pp0LY
13000 QLSON'`MEM0R;IAL HIGHWAY
P L V M O V T M M I N N E S` O 7 A d 0 44 1
FI L E" 9 F1 o 1V 5 4 5. 0 4 7 4
December 8, 1°71
The Planning Commission at their December 1, 1971 meeting spent n considet-
ablc amount of time reviewing the site plan fcr the Super Valu Stores, Inc.
to be located at the norLharest corner of State Highway 101 and County Road
6. One of the items discussed involved storm sewer for this area. Ve under••
stand from the staff that the preliminary report has been prepared for this
area whilc.li would take the storm runoff from this project and the. Schicbe
project in in southwesterly direction to Hadley Lake.
The Plannini; Conunission has expressed that they would like to go on record
that ire strongly recotiurend to the Council that a s toren sewer drainage plan
for the .'arca around Pirliways 101 and 6 he litoplemented as soon as possible.
It would ,appear front the plana and timetables of the Super V,Ylu Stores, lnc.,
the apartment and townhouse project north of Supbr Valu and the Schiche
project: that tht se projects will be started sometime in 1972, Themtote,
the resolution of tate storm setter problem mill become: imperative if the
projects are to be allGwed to proceed,
JCW; all
cc; J:uttes C. Willis, Manager
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Sincerely,
4ee..
P /
Jim C. Wnbl, Chrairm3.a
Plymouth Planning ""ottmaissi.on
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NATHA::. G ULl••PT!`;S.
193• t •±i ...
A1'-.. l\ Ti. TS:71
March 9, 1972
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Mayor and Council of the Village of Plymouth
13800 Olson Memorial Highway
Plymouth, Mn. 55441
Gentlemen;
bl to aitend the meeting on March
In as much a:; I will not be it e
20, 1972 to discuss the Municipal Improvement
entrecord.
Project 13,, 1
e bty
am
writing this to make my views
matter
not seem o me that the
opposed to this pro, _ct because it does
alledged benefits will compensate for the darn.age done to thesrune
latrend.
The putting of a four Inch pipe hn`gh- our grove
them and open an undesireatle
would create permanent
damage
thoroughfare to Lake Hadley which we. would have difficulty in
protecting. It is my opinion that an easement given for this
purpese would conoiderably
diminish the propertyrperry value of
d lake
andr
land. As you knew, Lake Hadley is an unm eanderethusfarwehavebeensparednotsey
snowmobiles and outboard
motor boats.
Very Sincerely,
ley.. G raw . .
Nathan C. Pltirpton, M. D.
NCP: pw
3
0
0
J i
ELuzi Dl. Ruprf= . Isle DO
3Lft6 M91DIC AL AUTO DIIRD6'v0
UnrNi"oUG, 1[MROOtA 66102
March 109 1972
Tho Honorable A. Hi.lde, Jr. Mayor
Village of •Plymouth
13800 Olson Memorial Mighwrty
Plymouth, Minnesota 55441
Re: Municipol Inpro%:ptrent Project 213
Th 101- CSAH 6 area, Storm Sewer
f
Dear Mr. M yor :
I shall be out of the city at the time of the public hearing on
the above project P nd am therefore writing to express our opposition
to the Council to hav%ng a portion of our property included in it for
the follor ing reasons: '
it Our proppv,,°ty does not Aa feet the prohlpm. According to your maps
and from the direction of 'ht%. flow of the sanitary severs), the
water from the samith borclor of "Pdley Hillp. dr.sins in n souther sterly
direction into our t,%vP ps, :"he wF:st s:de of the H. T. Johnson addition
also dr:, ins into them. Ive' hnvc• no objection to this os it is nntur:+l
flow. This surface dr. -1i nano is 1. nd locked on our h roppr,,t y. Rec:Iuse
of the contour of. the I,nd to the south and east it crnnot nc-o nor
ever has floc.Pn into L: ke MAd)cye Thpt is, it crnnot unless a storm
sevier'which is not nou,on the project t^Pp is put in from our swrmp
to the, rroPc a-tod one. This pre would oppose becr.use we do not wont
our swoop vainprred Zvi th e
2e We hive a cranberry bog in our swamp which has been there since time
immeroriat and any arbi wr,ry change in the water level nry destroy it.
30 ive propose thot property not suitable for housing bvctzuse of drrinA0e
or other problems not be grAnted building err -nits utiless the develorer
is willing to prey for the steps necessary to correct the situation, And
not require all those not responsible or affected to herr the burden
of the cost. It is unc:onscintinble to build homes and churches in areos
where anyone can see with the na!:cd eye that there will be problems
with water and then expect everyone. else who is prudent to pay for
the f3AVrent self interest of those fcri builders. Hod discretion
been used at the time of construction thin whole problem could have
been Avoided.
With all the emph.lsis today on saving the environment, the village
should be ronni zant of the fact that swz%mps are part of that environment
which should be rreserveds are understand :hat there is concern by the
state at this time in this rcnArd. Pusle:rity would benefit if areas
such ns this could he preserved for birds and wilcilife, and not used
for the ecanott ic gain of it few,
0
Y
r
Tho Honorable A. Hi.lde, Jr. Mayor
Village of •Plymouth
13800 Olson Memorial Mighwrty
Plymouth, Minnesota 55441
Re: Municipol Inpro%:ptrent Project 213
Th 101- CSAH 6 area, Storm Sewer
f
Dear Mr. M yor :
I shall be out of the city at the time of the public hearing on
the above project P nd am therefore writing to express our opposition
to the Council to hav%ng a portion of our property included in it for
the follor ing reasons: '
it Our proppv,,°ty does not Aa feet the prohlpm. According to your maps
and from the direction of 'ht%. flow of the sanitary severs), the
water from the samith borclor of "Pdley Hillp. dr.sins in n souther sterly
direction into our t,%vP ps, :"he wF:st s:de of the H. T. Johnson addition
also dr:, ins into them. Ive' hnvc• no objection to this os it is nntur:+l
flow. This surface dr. -1i nano is 1. nd locked on our h roppr,,t y. Rec:Iuse
of the contour of. the I,nd to the south and east it crnnot nc-o nor
ever has floc.Pn into L: ke MAd)cye Thpt is, it crnnot unless a storm
sevier'which is not nou,on the project t^Pp is put in from our swrmp
to the, rroPc a-tod one. This pre would oppose becr.use we do not wont
our swoop vainprred Zvi th e
2e We hive a cranberry bog in our swamp which has been there since time
immeroriat and any arbi wr,ry change in the water level nry destroy it.
30 ive propose thot property not suitable for housing bvctzuse of drrinA0e
or other problems not be grAnted building err -nits utiless the develorer
is willing to prey for the steps necessary to correct the situation, And
not require all those not responsible or affected to herr the burden
of the cost. It is unc:onscintinble to build homes and churches in areos
where anyone can see with the na!:cd eye that there will be problems
with water and then expect everyone. else who is prudent to pay for
the f3AVrent self interest of those fcri builders. Hod discretion
been used at the time of construction thin whole problem could have
been Avoided.
With all the emph.lsis today on saving the environment, the village
should be ronni zant of the fact that swz%mps are part of that environment
which should be rreserveds are understand :hat there is concern by the
state at this time in this rcnArd. Pusle:rity would benefit if areas
such ns this could he preserved for birds and wilcilife, and not used
for the ecanott ic gain of it few,
0
I
1
The Honorable A. Hi lee, ir. •Moe—Or
pad, two
March Inv 1972
d. Lake Had1 3 iq not a public lake. ^ur F'rn Prty lino is in
the 'riddle of the lake. :•:e are concerred about raising the
iter level bpervse of its effect or, the roots of the trees
along the short. ,With this we have had experience% At one
t i i^e the ou t i r. t to the lake W s d. IrMcd , c%usi n0 us to lose
trees along the shore. soire over 100 years old%
Also from our experience with the unl a.,iful t -afl. is and snb•.v-
trobile problem (tresP ssinn%,cp"Sot tl Lake
Hndley
ywcu'ld`oradicate
rent over our property, an e.
the last rrivAcy u -C nuw Pn job .
5• t:'e object to being Assessed .1? OO.OA An Acre for roughly 12 or
13 acres to F.t3 for %,: ter rcWe" whish our lend goes not con-
tribute to,but rather helps in the cclution.
c+ncrt alrr dy h,e rcnnn s motrt c:onfisc.t+ry.
Tai es on our • . ,
Enclosed here;vith is a copy of a let teiAo the C;vernor, SR>»te
And ! nu, c nri ty 1n,dvrs, Chri rr. en of thn erne<:e : rid lloustu talc gr,y
Ed:c'tion rortmi ttce diirinn the rc.ulAr 19'11 l i>>.slaltivc session.
This clenr'iy states our ,cosi tion on land tnxcs Ane'. bon i i sti'aes.
Thank you for your serious conslderatio» VI our point of view.
Reltrectfully,
0
sa' L. •Yt'ire
1e len 5. Ruste n
r._ ne+r M. Rustem
18420 D 8th Avee No.
SDI!?: jb t,%yzata, iinnesota 55391
enclosure
I
0
l h1
I
The Honorable A. Hi lee, ir. •Moe—Or
pad, two
March Inv 1972
d. Lake Had1 3 iq not a public lake. ^ur F'rn Prty lino is in
the 'riddle of the lake. :•:e are concerred about raising the
iter level bpervse of its effect or, the roots of the trees
along the short. ,With this we have had experience% At one
t i i^e the ou t i r. t to the lake W s d. IrMcd , c%usi n0 us to lose
trees along the shore. soire over 100 years old%
Also from our experience with the unl a.,iful t -afl. is and snb•.v-
trobile problem (tresP ssinn%,cp"Sot tl Lake
Hndley
ywcu'ld`oradicate
rent over our property, an e.
the last rrivAcy u -C nuw Pn job .
5• t:'e object to being Assessed .1? OO.OA An Acre for roughly 12 or
13 acres to F.t3 for %,: ter rcWe" whish our lend goes not con-
tribute to,but rather helps in the cclution.
c+ncrt alrr dy h,e rcnnn s motrt c:onfisc.t+ry.
Tai es on our • . ,
Enclosed here;vith is a copy of a let teiAo the C;vernor, SR>»te
And ! nu, c nri ty 1n,dvrs, Chri rr. en of thn erne<:e : rid lloustu talc gr,y
Ed:c'tion rortmi ttce diirinn the rc.ulAr 19'11 l i>>.slaltivc session.
This clenr'iy states our ,cosi tion on land tnxcs Ane'. bon i i sti'aes.
Thank you for your serious conslderatio» VI our point of view.
Reltrectfully,
0
sa' L. •Yt'ire
1e len 5. Ruste n
r._ ne+r M. Rustem
18420 D 8th Avee No.
SDI!?: jb t,%yzata, iinnesota 55391
enclosure
I
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o r ',. n `• :>n ' T, , ,/
ems. .. ... -
O i
0 o J ILI ';I;yn 9 1• .0 oQ , _ a '.-=
d •• ,
In
14a
r
P C :d, G - •ai 1-' VI ,'
1`} .
Apr 1 14 • 1.971
Via '11*t orabl.e Stanley Al., Holmquist Ll,
n ` `; ? ' ' ,
Gr.
1 1.
Sererto t.ajoriety Leaden c,
r ~It±te Cap Gto +LJ .! -
r, - '' „ ,.:' ;! II ', ' ti i`CI • -•
Sp ' Paul tiiirillisota *5511 Res - Inercaased 3,a and 68l:es--!::;
r
8:4 roolocau.: asst i or.,A_cr
T r
r l
n
U6$1atr 5t, .116 vi , , • J Ll ' .. • ' `` ,
a
V ,' '
f tt•Q l'ftro n l , i r (1 } an i°hcrQAse f n t'hd atote ' lifte e to () Y
Ro ciizg the FcLeral income tax nondeductible flcom incoie °rh i. dotermi°ning "
the..s site ta: ;., ('3) an- ircrcas'e In the" sales` tax rotaitiino: ' current exm
emp t3kas;; these 'taxes to be" o .Yenleerat. for the rroczty
taxi
vjIlich
5 to- Athe lrid at. unfai r tax levied, •and has become aliros•t coni isca•tory,;.
J -
Req&rdleng property t&xes.l, • ,
1
1 (1) Aarcagg (ftuld be arse is•ed at its curr erl, t uv values and not r
on vli.t f s ax.l:et 'value would.ve if it ever@c'ubdivided •unto itnall •plats
Ior limusing. Tlit a 1rtcrit +atii,hol pr&.1tier- forces the. 0ioter:.t0 40hoi.vida
or cc:.l • he thar or net it. is it his! boat, inter'eirt air that of the coy
Tho tine t -r chan0e t::.2 evaluation is wlien it aotual•ly W s OCcn sold for
1,&ntj t ••.GV j 11 r 0 Jia
Wo bue%vo lived for 32 y airs:. on acreage :( 30.84 .acres) Vidt, fulfilled
r'
the dcse:ripyibn by #a stat ofl%rural non a9ri.cult tral pr:.orarty,
undavol-opod woods awar:gns I.. tc. 9 approxi:•fately 14 aerbi of which are
totally or i,nrtially Baader webtar'' Our property has Mean. so Classified a -
for Malay •ycsars.. Nd* Vle: iut'c'P otand that there no lonpot is' suoh a class;i
ficatichl if Ofte is "o't engatigd in fa -i.,cV.in0 oazo "Ca tAked+ the same as, a
city rouidetite We evlo :tot hale the oervicob afforded our'Nearest 1aQirillbo s
ZGl phoiitl rates are '1 ..la.Qr m no go.M.aihs r . no unun.r; pal t rt er or VggAer (
a.lthofth we ato taxed for the talo iattet. In shute •ag th:is ouar Property,
is val•ucd at t.hc -marketj-3ri fcir Hone sites: We have oo desire to' soll.
T1110 stun our hone and vie had itaped to save 'it, for our children's child-gc ti.,
ttu Z:i1116 artll.d know the day air qca .aio Gel's 'world as It was • Intot'
ldara
i vii ld'
floularu falai crar,arri..* ,growi.no inti Swelops whore the troet.s dzoak, d li iti:o. r
Assnts 1 -vide p 4nd woocja whare the ,birds id vi.ld wavert,'awl fl-)Afir.411.1 ,
Itc t,.. -ver; if property tooa r•s,maita. ss they ate we will have no c1loide: 'batt
t0 sell.
r (a) I't is not enough to frooze twes at their prosent, ra'teb They
S 1 roost ba OL1hst %ti: -11a a,rd tic, Qr only the,most ai fluoe:t will bd abalo io
VOSAitt h -ir, l9mou - aua:d t1 i:lti lwlist?
1
I r•IN.. . .r .Y .•a __ `
1. _. .•...-
h
II
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The I'ann2rrtble St wlley, h'* Holmquist
Apri A' 14p 1.)71 '
Page two
I
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1
The I'ann2rrtble St wlley, h'* Holmquist
Apri A' 14p 1.)71 '
Page two
I
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I
The I'ann2rrtble St wlley, h'* Holmquist
Apri A' 14p 1.)71 '
Page two
I
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9) School 'tz-unco cho:ttd bei totally removed frost property since
thio takes the lArne:rt slice ,r:ith ever rising operating, costa as well
as the cuts Cant nc d for new schools. - Titero isn't ttecoiloari ly a
rolationohip lbem:e,k a property c:..,t:.6rfs and the localchood. Cur fatily
hao only uoe(,' tete: pulAic school :. , yuara for one: ch:ld and that was
27 years agoI We but' in o good educational syaI"c", b%%t if it is
going to drivo tic from our hent is we have: voted "yoo'IoT the lsat tins
on n ochool bond iosue and we know r any othgrn feel to we do.
The following shotes the rise bn the. •taxes on of x pttorlerty in: the
hast 20 years:
1 \
Total taxes School to
Pst>>,l le in 1950 $ 451,0 $ ?
Payable in I%01NU
payabla ill 196%) 1514014 lvg",?2
PaYAble in 1970 2390000 1149.37
Payable in 1971 377So04 210,50 04S
Thank y ou for your attention.
Reopcc! fulliy yours
L\Ikl jb
1
11c lan S. thus tan
Glmor M. r%usten
104:10 1) Uth Avo. North
hayaata, SS391
ti
I
I
NO. $39. FEBRUARY 1911 CRICULTIiRAL EXTENSION SERviror, UNIVERSITY or MINNESOTA THE ROLE Of PROPERTY1 '?AXES
For roughly half n( our hiiiinry, u;clre
than hmlf of all frdrral, 1,1;11.• and local
revenitt s w., ulttaillctl front pltillrity
taro. Not unlil 193.1 dill properly taws
1 arcoudt for Ires than hal( of state and
1A locel tuxes, \Inulcmil retard on property
LOVE W,10`0 C. 0 V (r
M 111xtsforn Il tluul half 1( its slate ,1111
1r-•
n I"( .-,. local hexes until 1969.
l While Irl lrrty tax collmi m have
risen rn illly 1111 this ecnllitr from 4706
t .'
P
l i 1
r/', , + million ill 100010'to S27.7•II7 million in
La 1.::. I v jJ 40 1968. their shire of total federal, state,
and Irnal rrit•elmes (ell from 41, pv kvul
to IA percent tlllring that periotl.
The r171pel ty tax share ill stmt Mill ,+.•
The Chan ing Role of the Protert Taxi' C.'ll re\'rtlllri fell (111111 67 .111'1t t1il .f) 16
g; v t}f perrcut thu int; th,lt PC1 a 1d, \\'I,% • r
aharc'u1 slate ;r\•i14\4\•s fl+, , 1,1+1 ,:, t, John 0, Nelnlbe gel, Ptotecs'or
Department of A1;ricultural and Applied Econnmlcs percent h n little +Hole thou I' pt'l\1 -it _ ,
m•at11\• states pill mit 1,f ihuLl Itv t.l\.11m1+ -
hila shlur ot~prlllicity ItACS~ 1 T—
A 10111 Crllttity tax comomist, Shift• Imporlan. It i't lleyond lite scope elf thili, rct't•ulle fell 11,1+111 1111, Pei. 1t. h i` if
111111, \\'hit\' th,u ".I'llr metillid rif Imilig 111ticli:0 it) Colluder prt1111t'1111i it( Ill111141 •illi% CCllt bet%Vt•t•ll 10112 alld 111(04 :',t.. %. ,11+ 1
r\'el1'4111C +lrCllydilig to his ;111y1r11%. Is li:r plillh•11y to\1,S. Italiket. me \\•111 lhwoll'i hAt-tal nlll\ mull bminti%o ; ltrto.111111
first rough attempt of ,1 pll prtt''mvuhlt; I)rirfly the chimpiog !t11t• of pinhrll% ta.x• IICi11'1 nll of tll It -11m i'Im, K2 111.1\flit 'it
eoalltlnnity to nG\rss C101 member es, plewlit lhr rase fllr de ru1p11.1\ixill lur;ll r1'rc11uC i;1 IrIGS, \\'1ii\ iaap\Ilt
acloldillit to Ills IelatlxC 1111i111\'1" In them, 41114 sligeeNt \CA%\ of (it Sol lames hfl+\'itlra VIII\' ii1 pl'rlCllt Il( tl)ldi
iS95. lip \\111iC, "111actil'All\, t114 114:11Cral i'Vell If 1111` adlllillkiralllml of l)rnlielIF lural wilie11lt lhl''y PM\'IdCti Some 90
llr'llpetly hlx is h\' miliv admil11 WIrd is ;;1\C5 \\'l'fC lJl'1'fl'l't, 1he1` 1\711114 %11116% a rrrCrnt It( It`t`al 11,•\'l'111IC (11)111 i1C,11
Ibeviliul all dime+t cane 4 111r \\•crit WN0 Ilet'd 1,111 dC`t'l pliaSi lilt! lhelti, ltl.•t111111 r <.1111rC1`S.
kilown ill the eivib.=rd wnrld. It is knit prillm.k• 14IM1 is ul bl.aiv 1111\\•, but hnlle- 'rawt- 1 Il,;nlntetratrs the hi.11lll\,d re.
ei.f1SC of il.'ll li \° mi 11k,imllve that its k14 (tial%, \v'e 0.111 %lo\\' do%\11 1111, rine 4! alt• Isllivr it`, sllphasts of 111411wrty (,lit•\ III
le0fit'll Or OR i.11111i11'llll "'list 1 t(111111` 1140 ereme III socil taws or maybe Mop (411'141 dw ; 4 111 ,i '11 11 \Mlle. '1'.111le 2 b9I lli, 1'4
hatllr t'1 of r%0y slatl>,\I11,111 cud Idol",• fi-I)In illt rr,lsi11g. a11 ii.,l ic'n1 rl.•ror 1 of 11' 11•:.•tlup l,,.,if
111 1960, 111\• Tohl^ 1, Tho mopelty tax In tho United St.;es, selected yrors, 1902 to I JGR
t`.11uuulllw of the Ckmimixtee for I:cwl Property tax . nnlnit' 1)r\t'lllilau'llt, 6111 reualti,.-.Nitit of ------,_
loll (144.1tj `VillItill.0irin mclitives 111111 Pelceilt, ne retcerlt,ade
et111t',tlmn, \\liH,• that tile'.. adulihis•
Total, Ptrcenloge of lederal. of state. Percontarle
nlilllon of state -1001 local of lccol.
traliun (ill Jw Itrnpelly lax 1 may ho ne• Year dollars GNP revenue rovenuo revenue
rul,lleIr 1hm,libed ns ilici tlilallle, ilION• •—•--- ----' ."
1•(ro. intr,In1letrtA fir t.•limilot."I Alillmr• 1902 , , .... , . , 706 219 41,6 67,5 6P 4
ellll•, pt11 f1,1 hl ndilluliauat+ton r\rds 192 , . , , .. , . , .. 3,321 4,5 35.6 64,1' 7 • t,
wItis m anti lim tiect11'Il it for 1 Imil i111r/ 14: 7 . , .... , , , . 1 4,73(' 4,9 30,11 6(,4 by r
tltil t i liii u1 i 11iliii li gall 1932. , .... , , , , , 4,4147 ,7 43,6
1
57,0 , •
tett u',ly la\r, bol ul'ilhl l is it Initaltlrtl 19'411 .. , . , . , 41071) 6,3 30.$ ', 48.41 ( `9;16 4,0191 9.0 30.2 43.6 ' 111, stillpol t their rltlnuullioll, We , Itci`tl . 4,•1+1 5,2 25,2 39.8 ' 1n38 .1, 1„ .1 ,. 1
thl'III toll 11111111 (111, that, 6111 all; , 1111111• 19110 . , , , 1 , , .. , , 4,43.1 44 24A 37,7
elty h\I;\ ill Milmes11ia Ovid milp,10\+ 1046 .. , . , . , , , , , 41988 2.4 8.1 3112 A''
614110 nlilli11r1 111.1, veer, while Ilic I;;:. me 10113 , . G,1 IN 2,4 93 2P.3 4% 4
t11 \`iellly $100 1I1;;;i;,n 411111 Ihr sal\1s Hill' , , , , , ...... 7,3113 2,6 11.0 24,4
11' M , , , . , 1 1 , , . 1 R,GIi2 215 8.5 27,8
wo la\ rivide $000 1111140116 \\`to \multi 093 , . , 1 , . , . , 1 1 911,475 2,6 819 28.1 4s .4
homy ti+ ilik:16'\r sales t.,\ rales 41111 1)(11• 19134 .... . , . , , , , 9.4`11,17 2,8 9.2 1,8,:' 461 6
Ct'lll 111 it11.'11IQ tax 1'6111.1 CI)tl Ilrl`l.'l•11t Ut 111111 5 , , 64 , , , , , 1 , 104h., 2.7 10.1 2846 4•, r
1. . 19:16 ,.,,,,,•,,,11,749 2.0 9.8 20,2 42,141111\'11,1111111 1,1111) tlllt.11tlll 11( lar 1 (11C1`Ca\4 !i 1957 . , , , . , 1 , 1 1 .1 "6pw 19 969 28,0 4;t,.lb
in K1111 In aIMIlI1h pII1111111' laws. 011\11• 1ia11N , , ,14,0'7 312 10,8 28,5 43,A
n1\by' i11.tt Ix 1 nl (t'ac1111r, tin Implovinit 19!19 it . , . ,111,91,3 311 1112 21,8. 43.1
the d11111i111\Ir,11it'll of I11ttj etty 111\111 0111 11160 , . • , . , , .. , .16,405 3,3 1047 27,2 41N
r1.11 Iei:1N iltrlluitiet Will CI1`1linile tv lie 190? , , , , , . , , , . • 149,0,1 314 11.3 2764 42 K
1963 ,.,,,,,,,,,70,019 3,4 1111 26,7 4' t
19W71,"I11 3,4 1140 26,1 •
ir• _ 19139 44,1,,,464,27,9 :t 3.3 11.1 257
q'A \f,111M) fit 11111 11:1111'1 1111 1!1\'Ion A Io,+Illy 1Q ltltit) . , , . , it . , , ,?4,d/I 3.3 11),9 13
11,,,\.
r111ui JI IIU` ' 1i1, 1111' VI t111flf 1111 l'lllhlllr 19+4 `7 . . it . , , , , , , 2G4 t.ii') 313 10.4 24,/4! `
1.1\ titPlit 1,1111111'. 1'l/'S 111)(Al • . . . , . . , , , . 47s747 3.2 11 ,11 :,tsx
111011110 1' 11,11114111, 1111)1,1t1 1n ti111 P M,1'1 ,Movie.
phhi 1'1111411q intt ,Mout Alhannl SoliIn111104 Roulet RollAnil r. 11,1111hod, rlppolt to C"emo'1 Minniflolsi rtopedii, tar StUtiy AdYuwV C4,110 A
a\hnlfct 19711, t.11gdtl 1, t`V, 1, l0, 1V, Nbvlmbn IWO, lip, 16.19,
ROUDi nRAFr
Item 8 on the Agenda for Nblis hearing -March y' 1972
7NE F'S'ONU:\'0IN OF LAND Rt,1TCRPR00I\'GNM ITS (O`'SEQUF.NCES -- Mana&,'er Willis
1
through observation I believe we have a' 1 become acquainted w t,th some facts'
of physical science involving water runoff,: SoiAe of our observations have taught,
us the following:,
1: If water from inciting sn1w and ice, or' just plain rain, cannot readily
penetrate the growid surfuc.6-, it remvins on the surface until it runs off,`,
or evaporates, or eventually onters he. s:')il.
2. Clay soils arc more, imrcivious \to water penetration than aria more szndy
soils, and most, %if the soils ir, this area are of clay. T'hi's is a fact
which is lotoc;n to all who went through the water and sanita.xy sewer project,
3. hater wil: obey the laws ,of gravity and'seck to flour to lower elevations,
fol.lo.ring a path of least resistaltce. ,
4. 1. enough water nut: oft' a large arca more rapidly than it c=;ut be absothed -
or otherwise cl.i.sposed of, flooding of lands will occur. The totter
occurcnoo may end:uiger persons and their prwporty,
Each and rvuty time we build a home, garage, develop a beautiful lawn, construct
u street, build a store, or of icivise cover the naturaj),grou;td mid thereby alter
01C topogt ;iphy, we are "waterproofing" the ground.
Va.te 4 prooring results from otn physical ch;uiging tjic character of the land
for whatrv%.Ir reasons the may, have to develop our property. With each now structure,
ground al'on is coverod ;incl made imporvious to gurfitcc absorption. As a result, the
water that way have othrrtvisc been absorbed is forced to rtul of. If All the land
now includcd in the proposed storm sewer project were left in its forTl r natural
o
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J condition, as farm land, there would hw;c beck lei the man-made ,waterproofing,
But We' cannot -turn beck. the ands of time nor halt the appropriate development
of private lands.
The slide.:, I ,'will shcjw you now graphically represent the waterprcofing of '
this area during the pa.c t twenty yeirs.
SLIDE 1, This slide,depi.cts the area presently considered for storm sewer as it
existed in about 1950, 11ie'dtainage area consisted predominwly of
corn and grain fields witlr but a few homesteads scattered throughout,
SLIDE 2. Now we have moved ahead to 1958, @lnd during the intervening years we see
evidence of waterproofing. Development had begun in the area west of 101
between 10th and 13th (Frieh's Garden Tracts),
SLIDE 3. Abre development is seen in this slide, reflecting the platting'of Hadley
Hills and Oakwood ALinor, Waterproofing is sprecding along with continuing
develoixnent
SI VI's 11, 'this slide brings us to 1972. And look at the waturproofing that has
resulted with the addition %., v&" Pinecrest (1963). and Imperial Mills (1965-66).
and Faaendin-Krogness (1968) ,
It is obvious that the watcilalrof ing resulting from these various
developments has creatod problems that did not exist previously,
I believe we can all recognize that as wateil)roc,fing of the land
SLIDE (s) has occur.vvd, and that -the water has been forced to seek new ways to
dispose of itself. Following the laws of nature, the water flows to
lower elovations, through yaryls, doi%n streets, through.pords, etc.
Unfortunately, th;: north of flow is not a1t ays adequate to accept the
volune u f water that nibs off. Wbon this occiArs , we have flooding. Such
flooding has occurred in this niva,
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The most notable -flooding, occurred during the Spring of 1965, and such flooding
may be anticipated to -occur again.,
Storm se%4er hearings almost always illustr ate what we, call the 'Hill and
Valley effect." Eater from a given drainage area flows doom the hill and, floods
the valley. Aile 'the residents of t - he valley recognize Ithe problem -- water in
their basements', etc, -- the residents at the top of the hill are dry. But since
they have contributed to the waterproofing of the land, they have alkN contributed'
to the total drainage problem,
SLIDE 5., This is an illustration of the effects of waterproofing.- (Picture of
driveway or roof)
SLIDE 6, And so too is this (house or commercial building, st:cet,
SLIDE 7, And (Nall;• this (another house) .
As die remainAng undeveloped land i ithin the'drzainage district is developo,
additional waterproofing will occur, 'Iliese additional contributions to the already
developed land will complete the waterproofing which began more than 20 years ago.
Some people believe that tic last laetdowners to develop their land are
responsible for all the drainage problems. But in fact the effects of each
dove lnpnumt :ire aumul a.tive -- ai each new piece o6 paid is developed, it's likewise
watcrl)roufed. If the remaining undevclopcd land wit.,lin this district teem- to have
been developed ten years ;ego, and, say Pinccrest mid Imperial hills, wore still
open land, the pre.ent drainage problems would be much the smile. 7liere are no
sctlp goats or culprits; the re;.onsihility for t. waterproufi.ng must be slit -trod by
till in the drainage district,
kecognis"Ang the effects of rust, prorent mid 1liture dct r:opmcnt ou waterprcofing
theY . ,rland, t L see tlt,tt out desiret, to atlaph the lri-1 to our use ht s gcnortted a
Ir ,
9
l
problem Aich requires a.,.olutipn.
The storm sewer pro3ect we are preserrting to you tonight would solve the
resent and future, of the land
pidblems created by our waterp:oofit , past, p
within this districts', _
a
PRESENTATION BY RONALD L. ,0XDRUD e
VILLAGE ENGINMM
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As previously discussed, the Council codsidered 37 projects for
construction during.1972. Because of the large amount of planning and
poli4 work to be done, it was deteri ,ned that construction would be
minimised. Only the projects that were considered the most important
to'the Village were ordered for Public Improvement bearings.
Because of the drainage problems that have occurred, and the fact
the pastand proposed development will magnify the previous problems,
the 64 Al. Storm Sewer Project is being consided this evening.
Unless storm severs are installed, major flooding problems can be
anticipated in the near future. In 1965 substantial costs were incurred
pumping the Olive and Herrimac Pond, cutting a street out to allow the
water to run out of the pond and to replace the road. Homes in this drain—
aje district ware flooded.
In the spring of 1971, at least one, home in this area experienced
flooding,, and others had their homes surrounded by a temporary lake.
You have received handouts which include:
1. A map of the project area, which indicates proposed
improvements, and
2. Cost Breakdotm.
In discussing the proposed project, we,will make use of alidee.
On the map slides, north is ups,
The project being discussing the proposed project, we will makb use
of slides. On the map slides, north is yup.
The project being discvased is as follows:
SLIDE 1 t
The first slide shove the area of the project. State Highway 101 runs
North and South and County Highway 06 East and `,. The approximate
boun,aries are Highway 101 on the East, 19th Avenue on the North, Vagabond
I
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6
L ae'on)the West and 6th Avenue on the South.
SLIDE 2:
The area's boundaries are deperibed in more detail as follows: Beginning
at State Highway 101 at County Road 6,, proceeding Bast ou 6 appronimatorly
1 lot, thea -South to 13th`Avenue, West to 101. South to South of 9th
Avenue, Westerly on a broken line through to Queensland at Sth Avenue,
Northwest to 9th and Vagabond. North to County Road 6. East to East of
Troy Lane, North to 22nd and Urbandale, across Urbandale. Southeast to they
South side of 20th Avenue, East to 101 and South to County Road 6.
1
The storm sewer system was designed based on,intenaities using
10yearstorms_ for pipe and 100 year std for holding ponds.
The trunk storm sewer will benefit the. total outltne arna, since
water runs off the area and this trunk will provide an outfall for its
runoff.
The trunk improvements being considered, consist of the pipe overflow
frum the large pond to Hadley Lake., the pipe crossing County Road 6 at
Queensland. allowing water into the upper and of the Pinetsee Pond, the
overflow pipe from the Olive and Merrimac Pond into the Pinetree Pond,
and the pipe going over to and crossing 101.
I J
The laterals (with catch basins) consist of:
1. Pipe up Queensland to Peony Lane, west and North along a future
street to 19th. Avenue. Catch basins would be places as dhown.
2. Laterals and catch basins would be constructed to serve Merrimac
Lane and the land a8,' of Merrimac. and
IN
Laterals would be added on 101 from the Trunk South to 10th
l
Avenue with stubs and catch basins West on 10th, 11th. 12th and 13th
Avenuea.
SLIDE 3t
Catch basins would be added to pier .,r the runoff at approximately this
A
0
0
spot, which is 19th Avenue South of 20th Avenue, in Imperial Hills, looking
upper end
Northwest. The drainage district` ends/ the other side of this intersection.
Note the water, at this point which is near the top of the hill, beginning
to flow downhill
SLIDE 4:
Water rum to the intersection of Queensland and Peony. Notice the large
quantity of water, which is flowing at velocities that will rear the surface
down. Catch Bastns are proposed for this intersection.
SLIDE 5:
The quantity of water continues to increase as you go downhill on Queensland
to near County Road 6.
SLIDE 6:
Picture is looking North.
Queensland runoff water presently spills into the County Road 6 ditch to
culvert across 06.
SLIDE 7:
This slide is looking South along the West ditch line of 101•- from 13th
Avenue. Note the ditch is full of tee and snow and at the time the
picture was taken (prior to thaw), the ditch was of very little value.
This is the location of the proposed lateral.
SLIDE 8:
101 West ditch looking South from 10%;h after some thawing has occurred.
SLIDE 9:
101 West ditch looking North from between 11th and 12thi Again the ditch
Is of little value. Note some thawing and water in dii;ch.
SLIDE 10:
UMM-M._
West ditch looking North from 13th store euwer woold pick up water.
SLIDE 111
Looking cast on 12th to 101. Catch basins would be put in to pick up this
water. This water, if it froze, would cause an extremely dangerous traffic
havard. C
SLIDE 12:
Looking East on 10th to 101.
SLIDE 13:
Another proposei catch basin location.
Low point on East side of 101. looking Northwest,
would cross and storm sever wuuld drain this water.
SLIDE 14:
This is location trunk
Looking'North from County Road 6 into the Olive and Merrimac Pond'area -
prior to any runoff. '
SLIDE 15:
On South side of County Road 6 looking East from Pinetree Pond toward
Methodist Church - along trunk alignment.
SLIDE 16:
East from Pinetree Pond to church to indicate how low church is and
potential danger.
SLIDE 17:
Turning 90o to look South at clinetree Pond from County Road 6.
SLIDE 18:
Looking South from 13th to 12th - Hardenberg',; driveway.
SLIDE 19:
Looking South from 12th Avenue (Hardonberg's driveway) to South end of
Northern pond area.
SLIDE 10:
Looking back to North from location pictured in previous_ slide.
S
Looking North at Locatioa of previous cl*tee 0 taken from 150 yards
south.
SLIDE 22:
Looking S. S. E. from same location as previous slide to South end of Pond.
0
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SLIDE 12:
Looking East on 10th to 101.
SLIDE 13:
Another proposei catch basin location.
Low point on East side of 101. looking Northwest,
would cross and storm sever wuuld drain this water.
SLIDE 14:
This is location trunk
Looking'North from County Road 6 into the Olive and Merrimac Pond'area -
prior to any runoff. '
SLIDE 15:
On South side of County Road 6 looking East from Pinetree Pond toward
Methodist Church - along trunk alignment.
SLIDE 16:
East from Pinetree Pond to church to indicate how low church is and
potential danger.
SLIDE 17:
Turning 90o to look South at clinetree Pond from County Road 6.
SLIDE 18:
Looking South from 13th to 12th - Hardenberg',; driveway.
SLIDE 19:
Looking South from 12th Avenue (Hardonberg's driveway) to South end of
Northern pond area.
SLIDE 10:
Looking back to North from location pictured in previous_ slide.
S
Looking North at Locatioa of previous cl*tee 0 taken from 150 yards
south.
SLIDE 22:
Looking S. S. E. from same location as previous slide to South end of Pond.
0
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SIDE 23:
LwUng S. W. from 8th Avenue at outfall 20cation to Hadley Lake.
At this point Hr. Rudrud explained cost assessments, etc.
i
COST ESTIMATE ,& RESUME'
PROJECT 213
Estimated Cost (Includes legal', admi6istratfve & engineering)
I_ ' LOCATION (Map #2) ESTIMATED COST
1. Outfall (Pt."A" to Pt."B") a $1259000.
2. Pond Acquisition (Pt,"B" to Pt . "C') $ 38j0006
3. S.W. Quad, Trunk (Pt."C" to Pt."E") $130,000.
4. T.H. 101 Trunk (Pt."E" to Pt."F") a $ 80,000.
5. Merrimac Trunk ( Pt ,"D" to Pt ," 0* 1 • $ 67,000a
6. Imperial Hills Trunk(Pt."H" to Pt." I'!) $100,0000
540,000.
Estimated Drain,7Re District Areas
Total S 71 ' ht sidential Commercial Ponding
Area Acres A. "s acres Acres Acres
I 77 9 43 25
l° 11 38 6 1605 14 1 a 5
III 64 6 58
IV 45 7 38
V 91 1, 5 72 17.5
VI 45 5 40
Totals 360,0 34.5 27 5 39.0 1900
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Page 2 Cost Estimate & Resume - ProJect 213
ASSESSMENT BREAKDOWN
TRUNK SEWER (AhEAS I - BVI)
Estimated Cost: $258,000
Estimated Assessable Area: 267.5 Acres Residential
39.0 Acres Comme=cial
Policy: Commercial Assessment Rate to be 2.5 times Residential
Assessment Rate.
Estimated Assessment
liesidential:_ $2581000
267.5 ac + 2,5(p3'9,0) ac
X707/ac = $0,0162/sq.• ft_
Commercial: 2,5 x $707/ac1$ 767.00/ac $0.041/sg, ft.
LATERAL SE14ER (AREAS I, II, & III ONLY)'
Estimated Cost: $244,000
w
Estimated Assessable Area: 117.5 Acres Res ".d-:.nt:ia'
Poh cx:
39.0 Acres Comn erci.,Lj.
I
Commercial Assessment RtAte to hie 2. ti ares Residential
Assessment Rate.
Estimvated A ssessment
Residential: $244,1.0
117.5 ac 4. 2.5 (39 ,O)ac
0
a
1135,fac _ $0.026 /sq. ft ,
Commercial: 2.5 x $:1135/aci = i?3 1/ac a O,OE S/sc t
I
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II,
Pee 3 Cosi Es t`3ma a Resume - Project, 213
N l
ASSESSMENT BREAKDOWN,. (Con[' d)
POND ACQUISITION (AREAS I -
Estimated Cost: $380000 `
v
Estimated Assessable Aea: 267.5 Acres Residential
39.0'Acxes Commeficial
Policy, Commercial Assessment-Rab t) be 2.5 C mes Residential
Asses.ment Rate.
Estimated Assessment
Residential: $382000 104 ac w $0.0024/_, sq;ft.
207.5 ac + 2.5 (3:.0 ac)
Commercial: 2.52.5 X $104/ac n X60/ac w', $0b,006/sem ft.'`,.
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Page 4 Cost Estimate ReaUM -Pro ct,213
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Cowl #xCAP
1
Lateral Trunk Pond's
krea Benefit Benefit Acquisitions Total ,
Cost Cost y Cost Cost Cost Cost ICost Cost ' t
Acre )SQ. -Ft. Awe Sg * Ft . Acre 'Sq,Ft . Acre_
I
I.(Resd'1) $1135 $0.026 $,)707 $0.0162 $104 $0.0024, $1946 $0.0446
i
Comm1) $2838 $0.065 $1767 $O'.041 $260 $0.006 $4865 $0,112
i
Resd' 1) $113,1o $0.036 $ 707 $0.0162 $104 $0.0024 ' $1946 $0.0446
a
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11, (Comm' 1) $2638 $0.065 $1767, $0,041 $260 $0.006 $4865 $0.112
Resd11) $1135 ;'0.026 $ 701 $0.0162 $104 $0.0024 $1946 $0.0446
IV. , (Resd' 1) $ 707 ;.0.0162 $104 $0.0024 $ 811 $06'6186 '
V. (Resd11) $ 707 0.0162 $104 $0.0024 $ 811 $0.0186 ,
VY. (Resd11) $ 707' $0.0162 $104 $0.0024 $ 811 $0.0186
Cost for typical 18,000 Sy. Ft. Residential Lot:
Areas 1, II, III a $804
Areas No V, VI a $333 '
OTR; These figures are c,stimates based on the best data an'd information
presently-, availobl f. Actual, construction costs would dictate final
a esessmant rates.
f.I
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