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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 02-29-1972r MINUTES OF SNOWIMOgILE PUBLIC HEARING ' PLYMOLTH, MINNESOTA FEBRUARY 29, 1972 X public hearing was called to order at 7:40 PeMe by Acting Mayor Hunt on February 21, 1972. \ PRESENX: Councilmen Aunt, Spaeth, Ne In. :Manager Willis, Chief Hawkinson. ABSENT: mayor 1111de and Councilman Seibold. Manager Willis presented the reason for the\'public hearing and read a letter'from Mavor, N,ilde. Manager Willis: The-meeting tonight is to discuss in a public forum the situation involving snowmobiling within the Village of Plymouth. The purpose of this mtieting is to determine whether or not there ia,any need to conside a change in existing policy regulating the snowmobiling sport and activity within the' Village. 1 , Councilman Hunt: Pleased you could all make it here tonight. As a beginning polot to this, there has been evidence of problems. Councilman Runt opened public hearing to those people vAko would like to speak relative to the problems of snowmobiles in Ptaraouth and nog.• is their opportunity to express their feelings. MV, LeRoy Lin6loom, 1652; 9th Avenue ..or. th. I have lived wt this address for the pa3t .14 yours and I intend to live there for titin, rest of my :life. F am nut a transient resident. Until about 3 gears ago I would ,sometimes tr.ke a $Unday winter afternoon nap in my home --- but not any more. Until about 3 years agoII would sometimes enjoy tching television on cold winter evenings but not any mpre. Until about 3 y9iurs ago I woul%l ,so6ietimes* listen to music on the radio in my hiume in the winter but not any more. Vntil a few years Aga I could usually sleep all night. 1 no longer arra able to 'dnjoy the simple things. My residential area liar 1irnQci into a sereamin t snowmobile racetrack. This takes place at, all hours of the day aro night. Noise is un'aearable and `V signal Interference makes even this simple plea are not attainable. Lnjoyment of one person at the expense of another person ,cannot bb tolerated, We neod a sensible, enforceutlle ordinance for this area and it must lie the Brame as iionearpolis and St. Paul e;liich do not pereiit the operation of tl:.tse machines. Let us outlaw 6nowmobilefi from the southern half of Plymouth Village, MrK. 1:d Sill, 11835 28th Avenue North. I am not exactly for ba,ining enmmabile, but Lho), der make lite miserable. I don't have peace cf nind. They co,4t across or,r neighbor's propertu at any time of the night. They don't ohaerve the curl es•. 'They scare n:A. I don't W3nL them on my property, tr. Judd R&tiger, 16A1,: .:`aciceaaks Lanes T en o+ the ciutdovrs. The mae hinua are very+ populAr. I suppose 4 hen \N,u )let so manS maclitnes as we're sot ltnpt now, problems are created and seine w. thesco 11rca Homo make t a little uncomfort; ihle± for peoples tdin can't enjoy the peace Patel quieL. I live tick C.',ecrson Lakes, a fairly copular pl.aco for snowmobtllee:1, rr murfle!rs were properly scat uli, then prollbzk ly Mould not he ouch a prohlem. On Iwvk,*keik(a It is a ray-.uGra %k edit on they .lake, tic can enunt ne ' many r'- a0 to 30. Now we havo u otorcyc:l ts coi-.jinp lout and, of course, their imiff ling i+ evFY ©rl3e than the Snow. mobile. Wtf% 1 ive L%l trove germs• kind of mut,int resiNpet .for one ha•.^ner'R interest. We are getting to 1.c a brei`%+ tightly pkipulaited and bul..lt tip area It seems to mei there are .genie arvas where should be restricted, For Caf,,%t r:pson. I urge the coune.il tha a they give due to this pto blem. '.'oar hath s de.. r%r it, Page"2. 2/29/72, Snowmobile Public Hearing 1' and I aal p that each of us will reall.ze a solution that wi1T be fait foE bot' , t do think that in htav7-rAR{dential areas therd should be some rests ctton,j. Also sehf[lora installed that are quieter. Glades 'Rippe, 2610 Wohst ,'edicine Lake Drive. The snownobilcra rat on!' Tatay on the lake but invade your private property without permission. There is a trails cru.' the highway down through our property, over trees, etc. This is our property and ve are pavlop, taxes. They go by ,and put their lights' into our homes and frighten us'.' We are scared - to death from noise and racket. We have asked snnmobtlers t;hy they Ob not stay on the rake. "'P ;:ant to go where there's excitemeitt and htli.s'to climb,i'l We can't R et the t;umbers ui those snowmobiles, tile, numbers are covered and thtt;tr fakes are also , covert d. Therefore, we cannot find out who they are. The knch,mtobtlei6 are breaking 'into ice houses and fish houses and also burned down sowone's fishhousefi, icines abruld be imposew en people going on the property of private owners. Mr. C, Mo.ck., 640 Highway lei Nerrh. Located on the uort'% end. of Ghipason Lake. lty ; complaint is not so much the noise but tile- property invartion. Coning in onto tete property, tntikding a warming house and coming in at the locatic•a where a sign says sn. mnobL1e ordinance enforced". I hate tcs see it all vatted dt;-r., : e'er young 15 and 16 year akin ,seem to be causint that problem. `'er1hiij%1.% some. ".ails of education'of fhe young 4nos would be the uw!4er. x0, lr. Herbert As L illi;; . 48 %orth Shore give, niyaata. 17 ad,•es On the norf.h end of Olesoci Lr e. :lost stiu;zno:,tlers go on the lake throul,14 this area, ":to trespassing" signs havt been taken dohn. It s being constantly tress-assed an%", Have complained to the p"lice. 1 want something done aw^ut it. tr. Leor4ru W. l verson, $10 tiingaview. Not a Hq iet't really heard too many ptrrple speak. Would rather have them around my ne+ ,%bn-hood than in the eountn' becauAe of rl,e animals. Ips. von@ Scttroeuer. We went around last spring and had a per.1tion nigned s.; nor neighboriood. Ltttlo park; it snena like: the kids are in there all the time, cut-c.l;N_p tn•+It urtapert+. It. ftut;,sel,. Ewald. 10101 Sa::ih Cudar Lake load, :tinnetonka, ',Y,nad into Gleason Lake), fair ::I;arr corrin?; our way. have tht ::oiue And fear of children be;itzn htt by a onotmva11' loi. Driven by children who do nuf: have •;.: !udgment factor. `\y Afe and I hkive had cur chilareii shown to C;Iea.9on Lake for sliding One sn(+'.4sx)bile cam: uj to sl,pe and missed my daughter by three or four feet. Fourteen years oltl; well- behaved ariu well-mannered b®v. Ohviouq that it arts 1us.t poor judgment on his hart. lust v ecognize the situation as it exists. Consideration he given to restricting, snowmi V les to 100 feet from property or perhaps banning thou from Mham southern part of tha Village% 1r. l-4ayn.e MacFarlane. Menson Lake -- drag, strip. Four motorcyclsin in addition to several snowmobiles: Noise to me, _is a groat invasion of my rrl',vac r, t un;t ty of livinl; lams Etrcutly deteriorated on the land. Cour% , ilman hunt: Open the floor to the people who wnnt to make cortments in. favor +)tc snowa;obiles. lou don't have to tell year Ooutncil what fun they a:at. Su91;03t a+01t might make elome pouitive comments host tt:e snotm bile owners might correct some a( t:;41 prnhlbms that have Lunn presented here tonight. !Members of Horse Owoers' AT,sociattrn had a severe prable% with horses three or four years ngo. Solved problem through working togetlw. Spet-L relative to cite j,nsitio% that can he taken. Page 1 2/29/72, Snown#A a le Pub) ic:[lear]tr Sr. George Kreatz,, 26014 pith Avetv a ;north, Wayzata. Seem to have sort of s proaleoJ area are on Gleason ''Lite 41. Probably the club's responsibility. 'taited program a little late putting signs nlvv, 11 thirh Gleason Lake could be taken care of 1n that 1 aap tt. mol Boettcher. 11616 Rldpemuunt Avenue. Some of the property ovnera do have a problem. Don't believr thAi one of my suggestions can be enac-ted, perhrpd in a V llage otdinvice. Suggest that rhanever. ,a snowmobller is convicted of damaging persennel ror petty, t4st t'de penalty be giving up the Machine, or a fine in addition to 4 the other, hand,' rAny of us wo`ald like to see some of our park money used to ext'ore Cte !' possibility of 'developing, a, trail system or placttR where thrz4 machines could be used. Mr. Donald E. Rudolt 11911B 18th Aveque Nor;1h. Polar SnowmtobilP Club - approximately lay; members., ;.Ruggest that- in each area of the, Village we establish another club. One club is bot' nearly enough. I have here a petition o! 19225 names of people residing mostly in Plymouth Village as evidence that, the majo,Yity of people of Plymouth are not against snowmobiles. They are against abusive snowmobiles and many of the petitioners Indicate they want the lags,enforced, bOt not to the point of takinP away the tight of anowmobli ers. The Police 1)4art:ment his been very gracious in giving us ° the area where complaints come from, so we could post these areas and stay away. I believe that the Council cormissioned 31;self to set up, snowmobile trails in snow- mobile areas. To answer this, whether scything has,, been done to epsabliah' either a trail or a snowmobile area. Follnwing hearing in 1970 (first hearing was in 1969) ' Council agreed to set up trails and sna-mobile areas. Club-atrfered assistance to both ' Fire ani Police Departments for emergencies. Offered 13 names of members of our club who would like ro ri,Je with the rolice Uepartment `to assist them In eniorcine ti4e lags. Were turned down. ever have been asked to aesist., Clubs are definitely patrolling tl es areas ar I are do irs a good ,doh. As the presid.pnt this year and two previous presidents, I aur stire that neither of the rhr;ee of us has been asked by the Plygouth Louncil or the Police Dtpartment to police our -o" members. With only 120 membors in our -lt h, there are milnv people riding who tamp not members. Gleason Lau,* - you have three Villages involved. Uur club has given safety instructions to arps-oximately 500 young boys and 6irl,s to try to get then to be Metter. Plan to contit en :1118 for years to come; also thta rnlice. Licenses alone take in a million, dollars, apprt.ximately 270.000 registered. soles tax. ten trillion dollars;' eleven -enter. W6 will come out and help post ynut private property. Have signs that ritad: This property owner has req%ioRtezd that we wt operate here. Please reapect hi.3 wishes Plymouth Polar Snoumxtblle Llub." Ask the Coiiacil to give careful c6rnsideratior before any changes are made. If the%,t do t:Ac;re sugl;:stions that we as a club Gra help with, we are willing to sit town witli them. Mr. hruce7 R. Aoumian, 440 Otclw id Lane, south r l' ,larters Lake. Publici ri ; You heard whore there wvrr+ four accidents. Oct, ciany pee„le fell in thetr home and mere injured? A horse wan roe out of a barn anil drowned, Helen Rudolf:;, 1191111 1,8th Menne North. I fin along moet.ty wit# glint my husband maid. Want r,, ask the Council achy 'penal,i.ze mc1Rt of the goo*1 onr,,:ntobAlar for a few bad knios? Uuncilman 14unt cr+mmotited that we an Ikelp they goon tinea t4 ed %tate the hall ones. Mr. Wtillaace J. Krout, 1101” County Ni,id #1% Only thing that people haven t tout!ted upon. Many areas are runtrIcted, so consug4ently 'Medlcine Cake and Gleaann are popular Maces. You coin timd a lot cif outsUiQ people it1 our areas. tile+ net hlamed for what they do. If _a il Paige 4, 2/29/72, Snowsobile Public Hearing r Yearlette h dine. 2660E Larch Lane :forth. Another thing; that we should consider with, oursnowmobiles. We love it. Should we eliminate snm.mobiling from this area, making cars and trailers, hauling snowmobiles up north blackening your highways with more traffic and having your accidents -on the highvayc Mr. Julius juaveller, A property gvnjr and a snowmobiler. Here tonight ab memb¢r and presentative of Hamel Snowrunners Snowmobile Club and Medina Snow Patrol. One hundred fai4lies, of which approximately one third reside in Plymouth. Also head of an eleven memb snow patrol operating in i'tedina tillage. purpose of which is to help enforce saovmo lle regulati.oas. Thotight everyone ,,had a very valid cotoplaint. PlyatDuth Village has an ordinance which is quite restrictive but not unreasonable. Submit that more restrictive regulations for the banning of snowmobiles from your village will not stop the renegades from causing problems. Prob'ems will increase because the incentivat will be gone to we with the landowners. Recotrtaend that all levels of government and private groupi,york on trails. Submit that the answer lies in strict enforcement of your existing ordinance by your Police Department assisted by snovmob`ilers. Also recommend establishing a committee of responsible and mature citizens to consider new regulations ana,to work out trails. Challenge to us as snowmobilers to work out a solution. Anst:pr does not lie in uuireasonable restrictions. Pledge my support as a responsible snowmobiler,. I would like, to pledge. ourselves to mutally pork out this problem with you and with the landowners, and we hope you will face up and set aside any thoughts you might have, at least tempo arily.,",of banning snowmobiles within the Village of Plymouth, Mr. Larry doardmah, 4155 Revere Lane North. Member o ;Plymouth Polars. 3ugRe,sted Plymouth Polars working as a group to somehow harass tho, violators or do whatever ;hev can. In my area% northeast part of ?Ilgnouth, we are getting a group of people coning from New slope. By working with the clubs to help policy with the situation, I am sure aye can get it doom to one or two complaints, like we have oh the horses. Mr. Wrigtit Sampson. 5325 Goldenrod Laiket admit that there are a lot of bad snowmobilers., probably more titan we like to say there are. Tounp club. We Lave not done as much as we should do. Police asked us to get the license numbers of snowmebtlers who were in violation. We vo?unteered 1S to 25 men to ride* with them. We were told that there was Just too much legal liability and everything Involved. Passed out si.h%s to people wlto complained about snowmubilers and no one put the signs up. Plymouth Village needs to Het up a board from the Village Council., Police Department, private citizens and Hit down and tall: these thinRs out. See if the r.Jub can't designate certain people to ride with the police. Stye if the club can't help to designate trains. Can take part of private property for right of ivay for trails. Councilman hunt asked if thero were others who wished to speak. Mr. Tom `1'hereau, 930 Garland Lene. Gleason Lake. complaints, it's all been the kids., 14, 1.5 and Ib the clubs organise a club of Just teenagers, Let vised by parents or members of the ether club. and Get trails as suggested. On Gleason Lake we pet a These clubs should have red f3ags on they hack etc t call the club and any it is your club member. We problem. Flew suggestions. Listening to the year olds. I suggest that one of the kids have their o•sr club, super - let them have their own activition. R high au 30 macUneR of teenaperi+. Ise machine so complainers could will du our utnoRt to help with your Councilman Runt. This hearing has opened communicatiut; linea that badly. Also had some very imaltive statements from repreRentat Ives like: to ask a queAtion at this timt. Wu know of the Plymouth Polar of thQ Hamel ULkh. Are there tiny other ckubn? No. Who enn we, as as represo.ltatl4es4 Plymouth Polars and Hamel. Asked the staff to needed opening up of clubs. I would t.lul and we know Council, contact look into the witty 1 Page 5, 2/29/72, Snowmobile Public Hearing that 'tr. Dorweller operates and to submit a re", --%t on that operation with their,, cetyntsf to the Counc il, 4 qtr. Bruce Chau, 15920 14th Avenue Forth, I think 'we missed one Mint. Silent' majority !s not here tonight. Complaints wem well heard and accepted; have a good representation of enowmobilers, but we have not,got the representation of those people who are concerned abo,,,t the possible eliminscion of snowmabIles in Plymouth. They all were very, very concerned that this sport was to jeopardy. Egon on small streets oath as many as eight machines, people said they were not bothered by the machines and did tint refuse to sign the petition. Throughout history the.,” or,Tty suffers for the faults orf p few. , Request from` he floor that esieting snowmobile laws be read at'this\time. She was given a copy of the. laws. juestion from the floor: Wlkat are the curfew hours? Councilm.n Hur",'ead them', Councilman Hunt: What the Councll'will do at this time is get prints of chelne rtnutes, digest what we have serin and heard here tonight. ,We Kill then pursue the matte at, one of eArliest Council meetings and have a discussion about it as to what, if may- thing, should be done. A point I rvight make is to look of the staff report rrAae" to J this. Wo can't discuss these things until after we get the minutes and totally ansl.-" what we have heard. 9 Council.m n. Spaeth: I would like to say I don't dislii:e the ordinance. I think Wo a pretty good ordinance, and I don't think we need a chang2'on it;, but I think there is' a message here someplace -- just having this public hearing tonight. I think this is a thing that's going to take time, with all of us concerned working a little harder trying to talk to our children and educating them. Within a short timn, a couple of years, if problems are not so ved or get worse, I think we all know what will happen tj;Aen. Councilman llunt: I think we have opened up a new comm%%!cation line here tnnight. get some pesitive actions for mysulf df what some of the possibilities might be. khoti1" owners Are offended by the snowmobllers. Common ground to be covered here where we can work together. Approach the problem in a positive way. It would be my hope that in t:ie vory near future I could meet- with the chairman of the snov"mobile clubs anti discuss the matter. There vac a request from the flour for statistics from the Police nepartmont, Cal Itaw cinson reported the following: 119 Complaints 31 Tags issued 209 Verbal, warniops Juveniles 230 Certified 250 Adul to and 900 Juveniles 44500 Concentrations around ;ledicine Lake and the Southwestern area) Registrations. trespaas, school grounds, noise, care;Jess operation'. Noise, tresgasR, `til' nt rands. Rchool grounds) Attended training courses) Attended snfety.talks And film test was given) Ordtnanco handouts made and given out. Councilman 14111t 418tld the Council and ,staff if thore teas anything further thev wished to take up at this time. ThaOed everyone for thoir courtoav and for coming tontpht . Councilman Hunt cloacd the nuhlic hear_inta at 'I;1", 0