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HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 05-20-1971 SpecialMINUTES OF A SPECIAL COUNCIL NMEETING PLVOUTIi, ;RAINCSOTA MAY 20. 1971ItAmeetingtoholdapublichearingwascalledto order by Mayor Hilde at 7:40 P.M. on May 20, 1971 in the deacon Heights Flemenrary School. PRESENT: Mayor Ililde, Councilmen Johnson, Hintz, Spaech and Hunt, Managkir Willi3, Pngineer Rudrud, Consultant Engineer BrneRtroo and Attorney Drawz, ABSENT: None Paster Gerald Oas of the Greenwoi-,)d Baptist Church gavi the invocation. Mayor Ililde introduced Manager 1Ji',! is to the ..itizens. lie said the proposed project for wh6T. this hearing is held covers the area lying West of 1ledicine Lake and Forth sof iighway 1155. Scope of the work to be contemplates+ will b.: discussed. The work programmed has been thoroughly analyzed by the Council and staff. The meeting has been orCaniaed in accordance with State statutes of i'linstesotd. Citizens ate invited to let your officials know how you feel about the proposed project. The first step taken on a project is when the Cowncil begins to receive requests and cormcnts from citizens ot; ,a particular problain such as cesspools and poor water. The second step is taken when people gall the staff and indicate that ;,du; thing. Unless thr gravity and seriousness of the problems are significant nnough nothing will l,a•,!aen unless a picture dev- elops in a certain way, then we feel resonsible to spend sono money and study Ahe problem. We take the next step and order a preliminar•- rm.port, which is not too expensive at this point, but we find out what the mute is for the improvement to go in. We study it carefully aid IS i- +c in the b.Mpark and cost estimates reasonable .and project fer.s.ihle we ,accept the report and order a public hearing. Notices are so-nr to the peoplo anti puhli.n! ed an the ofei- cial paper. lie introduced Engine•ir Rudrud rand iskki' hist to. tlescrihe the entire program, which .is an extremely cowplicntol project, varioue -ervlce,s are being offered, follow as carefully and n; you ctir snd ask civeetions if you do not untler.ct,and what it; being shctt,m ,and diUct s; e . I;ngtneer Rudrud sprid we have considered many nrent, for ;ta,tali; Mtr ittpriitr- hent and we are considering only these most :mpr,rta,it to the :c; arty lnvolvec. ';.tides were projected. The str.rm newer route, was im0l';1c,d i'ntl he said I- I , conn sideratior, was water tecause we have recetvad fueNatrnl petitions. .Croy,. rol wall redrillings have occurred, which were hoint,asl ru, cn n mnp and tht H w',th Hewer problem~. hater proposed in the North hall an. .9 ,t -0 half was sholm. 5nmo Htorm scwe,4 are in the area and some are, ju,vt, 'p . Irl dite; ps which t; ?-n shown by slides. Some have tr be made larger and c,n tot 1 -„ave the groper c -tint• : t.v. There have been newer problems in CreekwooJ llioli1 : Ad;itinn. 1\an hnve water coming out of heroes in the catch basins, a-ot er ..rpears to he homing out of private hewers which we will have to lo0 at lie stated want benefits would be rea..i-cn by having water instniled with ro- !tett to nafe.ty of supply, chlorination attd flouridntion, fire. prote.ti.nn, '-et Ler quality tater, soft- eners not rcquired, insurance, rntes will its, doyen, onstruction rates Will Ho tt; each ve!:'e and a9ne''4RrN111ts nie cheaper nor nn w. -ca -wide project, 04%re slides wc+te projected and It waL pointe+! out tJherct thr nrtrmpl installations will be for water. However., extrn doq1gn offort will hove to he made on Went t 0 Page 2, Special Meeting, May 20, 1971 1 Medicine Lake Drive. There will be inconveniences getting in and out but an attempt will be made to minimize this problem. Jonquil Lame presents a problem due to fences, etc, being so close to the road and the right-of-way on Hemlock Lane is narrow. Storm sewer is being considered as part of this construction and will be considerably less than the water main, 5 -,ion, 32' wide, some 24' wide streets with curbs, and gutters ate also being con- sidered if atomsewer goes in., All areas of Plymouth someday will hatz storm sewers. More slides were projected on drainage districts, ditches and culverts. Street construction will create inconveniences. Cost est- imates are noted on the handouts, (Exhibit A attached) and he told what the costs would be without certain improvements if they are already,.,in. We do' not anticipate doing any of this work in 1971. If any work is done it Will be late this fall and possibly only those emergency,areass which could be done in conjunction with another project. tayor iiilde said we' are grouping m my projects .,ogether because when we dig up a street, for instance for vv.ter, you spend a tot of money to do this and you are removing a lot of good base from the street, so we feel it is feasible to do the other)things that will be required in a short time and it can be done in a much more feasible manner. That is why we 400k at. the whole area in terms of having it done at the same time and get it done for less than having it done piece mea.1. Also, due to construction in- dustry information, to delay%these projects if you have a reasonable need for it would be very costly due to riming costs, tie introduced the CounlciJ, members and staff. Manager Willis went over the assessment factors for projects of this type. lie said two hearings are held, one for the project itself then an^cher one if the project is ordered which is the assessment hearing. The final cost is divided up at that time. Tonight we are dealing with cost esti- mates. Manager Willis said thi final day of reckoning will come sometime Inter following thu major portion of the construction, After contracts are. taken and b:.ds awarded and costs established and we knew what the cost w0 l be, the hsaring is scheduled to be held and you will he notified to come and vt}ice your opinions about the assessment and improvement. A publicatioN will be made in the official paper and an official notice will be sent to you at ,your residence in accordance with State law, which is your address on your tax bill recorded on the .,ounty Auditor's tax rolls. You will have 30 dayo, to pay the asses4sm>ent without interest. Thereafter interest will be charged from the date of the hearing at the rate of tr- terest prescribed by the Council at the hearing. All prepayments should be made on or before November first of every year if you wish to avoid laying interest for the year following. November first of every year, that's required by State law and ve have no legal ipower to adjust this process. If ycu would like to accumulate yotssr assessment you can let them go for five years and pay them to the village in full at that. time. Also, established by state lav,' is the moe ting held this evening by official notice in the parer ani notices spirt • - nraperty owners, so you will have an opportunity to voice your opiniu,%. ;hers have Ileen met and the notices of the hearings are on file. Mayor Hilde said, no indicated the es3timntess are just esstimatseb, We are doing a rate study to find out if we are dOng .aur village finah:l.ng preporty, Oe "uspoct whth it is completed there may be some upward entime ;is, Secoadly, if this project is ordered you have 40 days after the assaea;Nmers ` roll to adopted to pay the entire balgnne without any interest charge ar %11.. 4eyond that 3n days it goes to the Cow.ity Auditor, then you must pay intorest. for the bsslanc a sof the vear. keep thisi in mind, people forget that, November r - Medicine Lake Drive. There will be inconveniences getting in and out but an attempt will be made to minimize this problem. Jonquil Lame presents a problem due to fences, etc, being so close to the road and the right-of-way on Hemlock Lane is narrow. Storm sewer is being considered as part of this construction and will be considerably less than the water main, 5 -,ion, 32' wide, some 24' wide streets with curbs, and gutters ate also being con- sidered if atomsewer goes in., All areas of Plymouth someday will hatz storm sewers. More slides were projected on drainage districts, ditches and culverts. Street construction will create inconveniences. Cost est- imates are noted on the handouts, (Exhibit A attached) and he told what the costs would be without certain improvements if they are already,.,in. We do' not anticipate doing any of this work in 1971. If any work is done it Will be late this fall and possibly only those emergency,areass which could be done in conjunction with another project. tayor iiilde said we' are grouping m my projects .,ogether because when we dig up a street, for instance for vv.ter, you spend a tot of money to do this and you are removing a lot of good base from the street, so we feel it is feasible to do the other)things that will be required in a short time and it can be done in a much more feasible manner. That is why we 400k at. the whole area in terms of having it done at the same time and get it done for less than having it done piece mea.1. Also, due to construction in- dustry information, to delay%these projects if you have a reasonable need for it would be very costly due to riming costs, tie introduced the CounlciJ, members and staff. Manager Willis went over the assessment factors for projects of this type. lie said two hearings are held, one for the project itself then an^cher one if the project is ordered which is the assessment hearing. The final cost is divided up at that time. Tonight we are dealing with cost esti- mates. Manager Willis said thi final day of reckoning will come sometime Inter following thu major portion of the construction, After contracts are. taken and b:.ds awarded and costs established and we knew what the cost w0 l be, the hsaring is scheduled to be held and you will he notified to come and vt}ice your opinions about the assessment and improvement. A publicatioN will be made in the official paper and an official notice will be sent to you at ,your residence in accordance with State law, which is your address on your tax bill recorded on the .,ounty Auditor's tax rolls. You will have 30 dayo, to pay the asses4sm>ent without interest. Thereafter interest will be charged from the date of the hearing at the rate of tr- terest prescribed by the Council at the hearing. All prepayments should be made on or before November first of every year if you wish to avoid laying interest for the year following. November first of every year, that's required by State law and ve have no legal ipower to adjust this process. If ycu would like to accumulate yotssr assessment you can let them go for five years and pay them to the village in full at that. time. Also, established by state lav,' is the moe ting held this evening by official notice in the parer ani notices spirt • - nraperty owners, so you will have an opportunity to voice your opiniu,%. ;hers have Ileen met and the notices of the hearings are on file. Mayor Hilde said, no indicated the es3timntess are just esstimatseb, We are doing a rate study to find out if we are dOng .aur village finah:l.ng preporty, Oe "uspoct whth it is completed there may be some upward entime ;is, Secoadly, if this project is ordered you have 40 days after the assaea;Nmers ` roll to adopted to pay the entire balgnne without any interest charge ar %11.. 4eyond that 3n days it goes to the Cow.ity Auditor, then you must pay intorest. for the bsslanc a sof the vear. keep thisi in mind, people forget that, November J • • • • • ,• III , 7 • • r : • , r Q rrlr • I • J • •' JQ 1 • • ' SA . 1 ISI '1 ) IMPROV[ MI N't' HEARING INFDRMATION VE 13 i~1Cl)l:J Ni; 1,Aiaa' Altk•.A ' MAY, 20 1971i' ORO, ECT NO 71-1,226 8-A 1 SANITARY SEWER: i ` Estimated tot'RI cost i 128SCIOO UO Estimated assLssment per front foot 11.40",. Lift! station for 28th & Evergreen Sanitary Sewer: o r Estimated total cost 29,500.00 , Paid foxout of Trunk ,Sewer- 'rued WATER MAI N . r Estimated total cost 685,700.00 Estimated as8essment per front foot 9.60 SIVRM SEWER: vi•st r.-.ct.s i IX (See Map #2) Estimated total. cost 1600000000 Estimated assessment per sq. ft. 0.028 Districts X XIV (See Map #2) Estimated total cost 19,000.00 Estimated essessmont per. 'sq• ft. 0.005 . Siltl;i,,l DIVROVE3MrN1S with concrete curb and ut.Cc>>,, Est rnatoo. d tot it cost. 830,WoOO Estijuitcd asscssmont per front: foot 1161130 STRi"331,1' TIVROVIt.MIIANI1'S FOR WATU"A MON AREA ONLY 1. MWrM••'.r.r r.•y•L M• • mow•.' Without curb and gutter'. Rvtitivitod tolAttl cost' 3400000.00 Est kvil,cd ns;sw;smcnt, poo fillaiit: foot t,. ?•O 9 vi 0„ J 91 hST11 fNTE a as.,sessmont for. typical lot with 100' fronta8d and 15,000 sq. ft, in size, getting'all improve" ri{ents - water main, sanitary sewer, streetsrind - storm sei er - would Vii as; follow, iN % '1011M SE[dCR AltE1l5 ,I' - IX w.r ..,..n..... Sanitary sewer trunk charge 225900 Water main trjnk charge 175, 00 Sanitary sewer lateral - 100' x $11.40 111404,00 ' Water main - 100' x $9.60 960 .'OBJ Storm sewer - 15;00 x $0.028 420.0 i' Street imp'%ovetnent& - 100' x $13.30 1 330.,b0 ESTI-TED Total Assessme zt 250.04 ESTIMA'1'Ca assessment: fGrtypical lot with 100' t frontage and 15,000 sq, ft, in size, getting all. improve" ments - water.` main, sanitary sewer, streets and ' storm sewer - would be as follows: IN STORM SET -11M AREAS x xiv Sanitary sewer trunk chu ge 225.00 Water ma iii trunk charge 175.00 Sanitary sewer lateral - 100' x $11.40 w 1,140. 00 Water main lateral - 3.00' x $9.60 960:00 ' Storm sewer. - 15,000 x 0.005 75.00 Street: improvement's - 100' x $13.30 11330 Ono ESTIriA'!,'1!) Total Assr.ssaient 3 905,00 ' V NOTE : These Zinurns ,are est .bates, A comprehensive study of ' wr-w + 1 1-•4.4.•.r\1Yrr..H c,. a.r Y-....--y..R.• uta frfy -ait s and nssescmenI-s is bo.ing made. The sooty Will i,ncl.u(It. niterntite mottiods of ossessi.ng. Eacli ' h);o3act will be revue vocl regarding circumstances nncl actucil. construction costs. 11iis wil.3. probably dictate a„sessrnt))(4 rVILO i.ncreises. i C C11 0 Pag...%3, Special Meetin ; 'Kay 20, 1971 first is tte date you ust pay it in order to avoid paying interest for the next year. This is set by state law and handled by the County Auditor. The'public hearing opened at 8:40 P.M4 Dr. Les Kochenderfer, 2740 Sycamore Lane, said he is for the project. He owns ole of the largest curved lots in Creekwood Heights and would like to know how he will be assessed. Engineer Rudrud said basically a lot with a large or short frontage is made into a rectangular lot so your front footage is;;equalized. Dr. Kochenderfer asked if the projects are voted on by the Council, representatives or who? Mayor Filde said the state law requires we hoed these hearings and the Council votes on it, which take _4 out of 5 Votes to pass. if you have already had streets put,, in doe, the $13.50 cos\ still apply? lie had a 5,, -ton street put in 5 years ago. Engineer Rudrud,said there would be a differential for permanent streets and there would be policy decision fnade on the assessment. Yr. Jon B. Albrightson, 2860 Evergreen Lane, said he was for the project. We are on a private road from 28th Avenue. I wonder, because of the sewer and water, will the Village take it over or not? Engineer BoneA troo said the road will have to be dediated before the utilities can be put in. Mr. Albrightson said he thought it had been offered .o the Village aad they did not;want it because it is not up to grade. Engineer Bonestroo said without knowing the conplete history here, if we do a project on your street and it is private, we will have to obtain the right-of-way and then we cdn comp- letely build it up to specifications. Mr. Albrightson asked if it was up to them to get it then. %ty lot is the second to largest lot on this street. The last lot has no frontage. Will my lot be charged to pet it to him? ayor Htlde said no, we have developed a policy to arrive at an equalization procedure for neighborhoods that have similar sized lots with different front footages. Mr. Richard Kerman, 2625 Sycamore Lane, etas for the project. Ile remarked about the slide showing well drillings and cesspool pumpings. In the Creekwood eights area the area with the blue dots on the slide belongs to a developer and does not mean there are homes in the area. Ile asked when the f;lRureK were arrived at? Mayor 1111de said the preliminary report was based on 1971 con- struction estimates. Mr. Robert Nettle, 267n Kirkwood Lane, said he was here because the sewer went down my street and I am being charged $11.25 for it sewer t do not need. I contacted the city hall. to find out who the city engineer is for getting a bill that does not do me any good at all. I think my primacy objection on Kt.rkwood is I would say, that about 607 Of the people I%gve wells 126' to VP deep. Mine was put to a year ngo. The well m. -in said needetl a new well because of the rua.' construction can Went tledteine Lake Drive which disturbed the water table and .1 -,ad to go down 126'. I am nit worried about ntorm newer. Kirkwood AvLaue betwoon 260% and 27th, Section 4A, Thage blue lines •, nre they petitions from homeowners requesting seater and was-ert Mayor )tilde snits there are no homed there at nil. Mr. Ilettle said it is confusing and I hki'h= st,ok n lot of people here who have lived here a long, time and there Are not the shacks there that used to be. I have Reen some improvement and there Rhou114 be, )jut ae cannot do it all of a sudden. Whother there are $5n,nnn homey Or not it was primarily n farm area, now lie in the minority and the small propurty Owners find themselves in minority because of housing protects anti you Ray .b but is will improve your property vaaluO - Ra I npond $t.Onn for this awl another $1,Mn M 1 a Page 4, Special Meeting, May 20, 1971 V for that but still have a $8500 house. I am sure I will not worry about capital gains. The stock market does not seem to be in too peod a shape, business is bad, people will agree with that, even our *tayor. People are afraid to spend money but the Village of Plymouth proposes we spend our money, who insist we will be in a worse position next year. Mr. Floyd Olson, 3310 Lanewood, said he owns the area in Creekwood Heights Second Addition. He petitioned for the improvements. We are building moderately priced homes and want water in order to get FHA financing. So, to cut down our construction costs we can pass the savings on to the con- sumer. Mr. Elroy Peterson, 1565 Evergreen Lane, said there are a lot of wells being serviced in our area. It would be deatrable to have water. I am in favor of it. These little jotted lines - do they mean where the improvement of storm Reser takes place and the assessment is made only on that or what? I am about 2 blocks away from the north part and it makes a difference of 375 in the cost. Why am I being charged so many more dollars when I an where C am? Engineer Rudrud said the storm sewer areas outlined are the ones being considered and this is the boundary line of the area to be assessed. Those outside of the area are not being considered for the improvement now. Mr. Peterson asked why is there a difference in the cost between one area and another? $42nO assessment is ridiculous, just to lay a little pipe. 'Vayor Hilde said that is for sewer, water, storm sever and street improvements. 1f all are not required it would be pulled out. Mfr. Peterson said he is %n `:9 on map 02. Engineer Rudrud said that area includeG everything. The two diff- erent rates are for the two areas where pipes will go, etc. Mayor Hilde said it is based on doing that particular job. It denotes the difference for more involved costs and had to be separated for that reason. Mr. Peterson said you have it divided into areas for BSc and U. Mayor llilde said that is be- cause of the cost difference. Mr. Petersan said he will have to accept it then. Mr. Val Lauer, 28nn Evergreen, Paid I am 1007 for the improvements. When you talk about street improvements, what type of base is it and how long will the street be good for? Ile wan told by the Engineer it will be a 5 -ton residential road, blacktopped and go down Evergreen of mixed asphalt. They will be in- spected and seal.coated periodically and last 15 to 20 years. Mr. Lauer asked if the chuckhole at the bottom of the hill will be taken care of? He was told it would be. lr. Harmon 8., Tobler, 12804 28th Avenue, said he is in favor of the project. I have nightmares at times thinking we will fall into a cesspool. I have a cesspool problems. The Engineer looked at my place and showed me through the neighborhood. Water is a real necessity. Cost for continual Improve- ments cannot be avoided. Mr. Norman Torrisson, 12911 27th Avenue, asked what interest rate is being charged now? Is it true ,you are hondinp at 6" and charging us OV favor llilde said last year we charged 81' and our hands were 71. lie try to maintain a point spread for safety. TorriRPon asked w but you will not finance the project for lees interest charge? Mayor llilde said we will even It out for uthat the project will cost. We do not finance the project with money, derived from interest. Vr. Torrisson said lie saw ne reason for storm sewer, it goes into Plymouth Creak ,immediately. You talk about a 15 year road, we have not paid for our road yet, now it in already,hreaktnll up. I wAs late tonight and could not get to another place. If 4ou give me the newer I would 9 0 t. Page. 5; Special 'Meeting, May 20, 1971 not take it for the trouble it will cause me. I talked to a woman yesterday In Greentree and she indicated she would never go through it again. Creekwood Meights'First is getting a bad job here. I do not think it would cost, $4250. You afire trying' to r;onvtnce us how cheap it will be. For an instance you used 100 lots and,we,must have 18,500 sq. ft. and the tax is compared on a $2O,000 house - how' many'of those are there? You charge us $11.O0,per quarter then you force us to hook up to the sewer, then the water, maybe a few can afford it, I can't. I could p -;em my septic tank and be money ahead. < Mayor Hilde said, first I think most of us'know this is a community -kind of project) and it is not possible to skip avfi'glares who do not want something. So it is difficult for your. Council to contemplate and arrive at decisions be- cau3e There are people who do want it 1:id t os!:) who do not want 'it. So - we look at'it from the overall area where you live. We know, for sure, that when this d-ec'tsion is made whether it 15, go or no, some people will be opposed and we wail not please every ody. We `lid not xven want to consider this project this' year because we were, so busy and hal ' so much to do, but ao many have asked us for it') and ,it would be the height of i.;xe:=ponsibility if •ire ignored them. There is, 'no reason to distort the picture`the 100' figure is easy to use for multiples. secondly. , there are a lot of flo'ts in this area that ares 100 or less, most of them are smaller, oto there is no attempt made to fool anyone here. As far as troublesome, some projects have been troublesome, but we have hired mora staff over the years. It is never pleasant when they dig up the street but we have shortened the period. The South.rest was our largest project ever and we had about 95" of the roads back In the fall and the best %,!e could was done to get them bask as fast as possible. trs. Blom, 2510 "tagnolia, said she initiated a petition for water however, was surprised it will not come 'befo: fall. It is necessary, particularly south of 26th Avenue king to Highway #55. One of the people said his house is worth 4500 and ik getting all of these assessments. Actually the homes are like 20 years old and not evaluated at $20,000 and they cannot pay the assessments, etc. Vater will be coming in one way or another and it is cheaper to do this. So, we who are suffering poor weld cannot afford not to get it now. On inconveti: iences for road repairs, etc. I do not think these people have had the inconven- ience of having no well and all kinds of things thr.t are existing in the section South of 26ch Avenue, w'iich is worse than kalking half a Mock to your car. Regarding the time, is there tiny way we could, get it hefore fall? Itayar llilde said we discussed this aroject and first, we do not want to make the bad mistake of biting off more than we can chew advantageously. We did as much wort: as Bloomington with only 102 of their staff. So - we are foolish If we try and attempt to do this again. We want the streets to Ito hack in -.,fight with the proper amount of hsps:tars and handle your Phone calls properly. We do not grant to build up a big staff and have to carry them along during a quiet year. Your areA was considert.1-1 1-o go out sooner because of the problems. It is poss- ible on an engineering type basis that we may get to that area sopt.er. ttr. Chas. ireflin, 127:0 27th Ave. y., wondered w',iv thev can't hn-'a the Hever laid down their alley instaad of the street. bng+neer Rudrud said nr_rmally thare are many proble-os due to getting eusament-,4, ;.reel, structures and hard to maintain. It is nct a uod tdea, but we can certainly look into it. Mr. Vef lin asked - on the wato r, it doesn't show it gotng kin 4 7 Avenue. Mayor Itildt Rodd it would I e gotrg dua,t there too. ttr Vef lin said he ,ans for the Improvement . e I i I I 1 Page b, Special Meeting, May 200 1971 J rs. James Raymond, 2340 Larch La4e,. said he was in favor.of water and eewe . have had nothing b'ut trouble wXth our well. The next step wou'd be' redill- j.+o, we would) rathe:c have water. Ou.,' pressure goes'.down and the rust is what we )Want to get-Vrid .%4,` I ?e the flouride for my chtldr We don't have to hock up for two 3 ars, r Ot? Mayor 1I11de said yeQ,,--and :f you bring in a certificate each yes -,after 'that saying it is okay you do not.ave to hook up to it. Mrs. Rayemogd, said' they are upgrading their home from $A5,000 to $20,000 and does not want to dig it up agais},very year. M=s. Mary Wilson,, 27o3 `fagnolia Lane, said we Just bought- property, and found out there is' no nater, It, -is terrible. We will have to di a well,. If we dig a well will %'"e have, to. give it, up? Mayor Hilde explained-lbout the two year hook up period or bringingin a certificate to show it is okay each year. She. asked if they could get a IOetition to get it in'sooner? We rye at the end of 27th Avenue. Mayor IMde seid we have to consider that. tale do not -know how to answer Tou on timiltg. Mr. Glen G. Fredeen, 1910 OakviE-w Lane, said I wish .,o thank Engineer Rudrud_ for spending time with me last week. Oakview is a daadend street. I have talked to my 32 neighbors and there is nothing menti;ned about redrilling wells ot.) Oakview or petition; received oT halving work to bt. done and no projects were shown on Oakview Lane. We have 30J people signed ths,t do not want, water or storm sewer on our street. We would like to see 16., not go'through on our street. He padded a pe:ation to *favor Hilde. Mr. Lawrence Burk, 12c ln Ilighwav #55, said you showed a slide on the pond. Does thee mean it will 6.%. drained and it wtll be the end of the pond? 1111 it he drained? The high%tay empties into it now. We did have some drains put In when thgy improved the highway. Drains are going into Hidden Lake and through the bacl-s of the dots. It was taut in when the streets were put in. A storm urain was put in man Section 11, back of Ives Lane area going to Hidden Lake and tile was put in,. I was wondering if they put it in will it drain the. pend? Mayor !tilde said the tray it will work is to control the level of pond, not to drain it. Nr Burk said it is a useless lot, he'd give it up for taxes, kfavor llilde asl ed if it iA the idea to leave it useless? "Ir. Burk said the people would like to leave it as an unused area. We were considering improving it by having a drag line come to and have an island in the middle for ducks. It will not be crrined then? *'ayor Hilde said, Engineer 11onestroo td it absolutely will not drain the area. ?fr. BurL asked if it is nenessary for storm se%;Qr in Sections 11 and 12. 1 was not aware we needed it. All 'that section is very high land. Engineer Bonestroo said we realize that possibly there has been no difficulty, but based on our computations on a 50 year study, we feel this control in necessory now. If this type of curbing in not Being considered all the controln will he deleted. `tr. Burk said he was for part of it. I do not think we need it lased on a 50 year deal, we have sewer but people do need water. Afr. Gernld rox, 1745 Oakview, RAW he wondered 3f you can qualify what is generating the interest? I have not formed an opinion an this And have not seen ,anything yet to convince me that this is necessary. I do not have a need for it. 0ayor llilde said we niv not Adlesmen and are not trying to con- vince you. w1r. Fox asked what are tkae motivating factors? Pfavor llilde said In the area there have been permits ivsued for rumpings and there have been potittona. 'Vont of than penple linve said they are in favor. Wo do not try to qualify the project - it's noel wits as much objectivity as possible is evaluated in terms of no's and how had it is necaded. The men on the Council hc;ve spent at number of years studying this quosrion for other Areas. rs. James Raymond, 2340 Larch La4e,. said he was in favor.of water and eewe . have had nothing b'ut trouble wXth our well. The next step wou'd be' redill- j.+o, we would) rathe:c have water. Ou.,' pressure goes'.down and the rust is what we )Want to get-Vrid .%4,` I ?e the flouride for my chtldr We don't have to hock up for two 3 ars, r Ot? Mayor 1I11de said yeQ,,--and :f you bring in a certificate each yes -,after 'that saying it is okay you do not.ave to hook up to it. Mrs. Rayemogd, said' they are upgrading their home from $A5,000 to $20,000 and does not want to dig it up agais},very year. M=s. Mary Wilson,, 27o3 `fagnolia Lane, said we Just bought- property, and found out there is' no nater, It, -is terrible. We will have to di a well,. If we dig a well will %'"e have, to. give it, up? Mayor Hilde explained-lbout the two year hook up period or bringingin a certificate to show it is okay each year. She. asked if they could get a IOetition to get it in'sooner? We rye at the end of 27th Avenue. Mayor IMde seid we have to consider that. tale do not -know how to answer Tou on timiltg. Mr. Glen G. Fredeen, 1910 OakviE-w Lane, said I wish .,o thank Engineer Rudrud_ for spending time with me last week. Oakview is a daadend street. I have talked to my 32 neighbors and there is nothing menti;ned about redrilling wells ot.) Oakview or petition; received oT halving work to bt. done and no projects were shown on Oakview Lane. We have 30J people signed ths,t do not want, water or storm sewer on our street. We would like to see 16., not go'through on our street. He padded a pe:ation to *favor Hilde. Mr. Lawrence Burk, 12c ln Ilighwav #55, said you showed a slide on the pond. Does thee mean it will 6.%. drained and it wtll be the end of the pond? 1111 it he drained? The high%tay empties into it now. We did have some drains put In when thgy improved the highway. Drains are going into Hidden Lake and through the bacl-s of the dots. It was taut in when the streets were put in. A storm urain was put in man Section 11, back of Ives Lane area going to Hidden Lake and tile was put in,. I was wondering if they put it in will it drain the. pend? Mayor !tilde said the tray it will work is to control the level of pond, not to drain it. Nr Burk said it is a useless lot, he'd give it up for taxes, kfavor llilde asl ed if it iA the idea to leave it useless? "Ir. Burk said the people would like to leave it as an unused area. We were considering improving it by having a drag line come to and have an island in the middle for ducks. It will not be crrined then? *'ayor Hilde said, Engineer 11onestroo td it absolutely will not drain the area. ?fr. BurL asked if it is nenessary for storm se%;Qr in Sections 11 and 12. 1 was not aware we needed it. All 'that section is very high land. Engineer Bonestroo said we realize that possibly there has been no difficulty, but based on our computations on a 50 year study, we feel this control in necessory now. If this type of curbing in not Being considered all the controln will he deleted. `tr. Burk said he was for part of it. I do not think we need it lased on a 50 year deal, we have sewer but people do need water. Afr. Gernld rox, 1745 Oakview, RAW he wondered 3f you can qualify what is generating the interest? I have not formed an opinion an this And have not seen ,anything yet to convince me that this is necessary. I do not have a need for it. 0ayor llilde said we niv not Adlesmen and are not trying to con- vince you. w1r. Fox asked what are tkae motivating factors? Pfavor llilde said In the area there have been permits ivsued for rumpings and there have been potittona. 'Vont of than penple linve said they are in favor. Wo do not try to qualify the project - it's noel wits as much objectivity as possible is evaluated in terms of no's and how had it is necaded. The men on the Council hc;ve spent at number of years studying this quosrion for other Areas. J Page 7, Special Meeting, -May 20, 1971 Plymouth has a lot of clay and it is a mixture of clay and gravel, cesspools do not work too good and we have experienced this throughout the village. There are some new homes that have not had any problem, but if th•zy are in a clay area they will have problems and we try to boil this down to a formula. Mr. Fox said maybe you cannot answer my questions. You are answering the developers not the ones who are not complaining. I do not think it is justifiable to put in this project. `xy personal opinion is we do not need the water on Oakview Lane. The majority of the people do not want it. mayor Ililde said I do not k. -.,ow how you got this idea - it has not been ordered. wxr. Fox said, you are talking about a starting date. Mayor Hilde said, if it is ordered, we have been trying to give them an idea when it will be started. Mr. Fox asked when will it be decided? Mayor Hilde said maybe next Monday night. `tr. Fox said T find it increditable you will do it oo soon, people are just tnyi.ng to live and in S days you are going to make a decision. Y have a second question, In terms of Mon or $4000 over the life of the bond issue - what does this mean in terms of in- terest over that time? Councilman 3ohnson said it would be doubled in ?S years, on a 30 year bond at 82, if less interest, it will be a lesser time. Council- man Hunt said the purpose of this hearing was based on complaints received. It was considered with others that had been previously postponed that there was much interest in the area to put it up for a public hearing and it was made to let you come forth and oppose it if you feel it is going to be ramrodded through. it is an informative meeting and you can speak for or against. Council- man Hintz said in the 2- years that I have been on I have been contacted every year by people from the Medicine Lake area for water and it is now 3 years that they have asked for it. I think the people knew that sooner or later they will get water as a few of you mentioned. He asked in what way will the apartments be taxed for this project? The toter said at least two complexes of 200 units each are being considered. Mayor Hilde said commercial assessments generally run $100 per unit and pay a higher rate for streets, etc. Ile asked. in what sense? Mayor Hilde said based on the residential rate. Councilman Hunt said it is 1`3 times that. Mayor Ililde said I can see you have a desire to gain a great deal of information, I suggest you go over these policies with Engineer Rudrud and "anager Willis. Ile said it will be hard tn get that information to the people if you are going to decide next "tonday. "aynr 11i lde gatd, L am tint sure it will be made next ''rnday, this is ,your oppnrtuntty to object. Ile asked if this would stnnd uta to ,t referendum? "aynr Ililde said t.e are not allowed to do it by State lair, Ile asked could you be willing to whit? I would be interested in netting more facts an this. we saw slides And blue dots where t„ houses exist. Councilman Johnson said it is not up to you to make a decision or who does need it. Co out and talk to people who have a p-roblem, drive out and come back and challenge. us then. `lnyor Ililde said maybe you can talk a second gime later if you still have something on your mind. We have cornu here to hear your r'omments. I, personally, have not seen you, `!r. Fox, at nny meeting. It is not altogether all our fnult. We do not spend money heyond a logical point. If you do not spend money And ask questions we cannot lielp that. Mr. James R. Darsowt, 1230n 6th Ave. N.. said I am in favor of the project, for the reason of they cost. four years afro we were left out of the sewer project and last year it cost us double. If we are forced to put it in 5 years from now, I wonder what it will cost then. On 24th looking West Lrom Yagnolin there is in picture of our curb and Mutter - will the uttches he filled in? Engineer lionestr+oo said yes. 1,1r. Darsow said luta neighbor is getting his road upgraded in this project. Is thio going to he continued them and torn up npain - Larch Lane north of 26th? lie is the only one in there now. Ftigincor Rudrud said we will .attempt to coordinate the two if It Is hetn;t donee lino. JY a L i r 1age 8, Special "eeting, May 20, 1971 Mr. Larry Laliberte, 11845 28th Avenue, said I would like to Find out Section 7 of the sanitary sewer bo:usdary - what side is the sewer going Olo be put in - atth or south side? Engineer Rudrud said we will not know until the -surveys are made after it is ordered. Mayor Hilde said we do not want to spend a lot of money on plans until it is ordered then the details are determined. Mr. Laliberte asked if the property owner will be advised. Mayor Hilde said possibly not, but you can call and find out. It will take about a month if the project is ordered. *fir. Laliberte said my reason for asking is the right- of-way of 28th Avenue - where it takes a jog is on my property. Mr. Kaman has my surveys because I am requesting a subdiVision before anything is done. I am for the project and would like to see a good street, it has beHn sad ever since I've been in the'area - but I. want a fair shake on where it will end up, i want it to end up where it is actually deeded bnd not on my prop- erty, especially if there is goinp,to be some rebuilding. Engineer B(:nestroo said generally speaking on the roads there, it will be put back where it be- longs, but possibly we will need more right -of -wad. Mr. Laliberte Asked if it will be 24' wide because of right-of-way? Engineer 3onestroo said before we start we will try to do something about it and widen it. The road will be moved Where it belongs then - asked `tr. Laliberte? Yes, said Engineer Bonestrgo. Mayor Hilde said if we order the project ae will put grass iw where the road {a now. Mr. Laliberte asked about trees too. Sngineer Rudrud said we want to put bac:t what belongs. `tayor Hilde said it appears- there is a complex problem here and he sztegested that he talk to the *tanager further. Mrs. Pauline Milner, 2355 Jonquil Lane, said we have had sewer for three years so our water has improved, iiithin a radius of h io hinckq we have 11 retired people and they cannot afford any more taxes. They are also against this project. Mr, Paul Julin, 3313 West Medicine Lake Drive, said a year ago we .zsked when water would come in. we have a new well and our opinion has been changed. lie are against it. lie Nave it shown twice - once on Hemlock ani once on "ed- icine Lake Drive - what harkens to our assessment? Mayor Hilde said you are obviously charged one time based on a front foot charge and a $175 unit charge for water, assuming you have P half acre lot. 'Mr. Julin said I notice you have 9.60 to bring it up - is this a reasonable cost, where did you get it? `tayor llilde said the front foot charge is a way of splitting the const for the project in an equitable way. Engineer Rudrud said the two types of construction are not comparable to sewer - you do not have a problem of deterrtnp traffic as well. On a storm sewer going across the back of my lot Fast t:if Hemlock - lr. Juin said, how will you run it and what will happen to my Rarape anti calk? Mayor Hilde said that is a district boundary line only. `fr. Jultn eons against it-, r. Joseph 11oresji, 2671 West 'Ivdicine Lake Drive, asked about drilling under the road - you do not have that assessment here for sewer and water. 1%%y tic ven't you? It is all included in there said "!ayor )tilde. Mr. liores j i. said they were supposed to get it last year from 26th to 28th Avenues. Engineer lloneRtror said their address is the last part of the project that will he done and will start in a couple weeks. We cannot discuss the project with you tonight. tie asked why they were not notified when it was coming out - the assessment? laynr liilde told him we havr not had it yet. 111r. Horesji asked how come he can't got in touch with anyon,r in the office - my number is 545-2481. I am in favor of it and want dower for sure, but storm saver w,i do not need. R I, Page 9, Special Meeting, May 20, 197 Mr. Stephen Wachler, 12905 27th A e. H., said I at for it. Engineer Rudrud said he does not like to put it in the alley. All of us would like it done that way - it is paved,i Our st ets would not have to be torn up and it could go directly to our bas ments.. Each of us could save over $1500. Mayor Hilde said we cannot answer i4)u mm tut 'will consider it in the most efficient way possible. Mr. Wachl'er rlaid''Northern States has an easement through the back of his lot - look At 146s closely. Mr. Harold H. Hass, 190V, O kview, ask6d why can't our area of Oakview be dropped? I- can be sat'd Mayor Hilde. Mr. Bass said our road is an odd situation and is not deeded to the village and my 1-ot goes to the middle of the street. Some ye, rs ago the village asked as to give 15 more feet from the middle back to,/our yard. Now where will that put water - on property owned by an individual? Mayor Hilde said the answer is that before we do any improving tc'Oakview the village will have to obtain the right-of-way and we will have to work with you first. Mr. Hass asl:ed if anything has been done? JfAyor Hilde said not that I know of. qtr. Hass said I am for people who need it, but why include us who do not need it. "Mayor Hilde said that will be considered. Mr. Russell A. Hinze, 1545 Evergreen, said I am wondering where the storm sewer drains to - the lake? Engineer Rudrgd said each one drains to different places. Yours' drains to Plymouth Creek to the East arta North. Mr. lttnze said you said the ones who would be assessed are the ones inside the dotted lines, right? I live in the place where you "how the garage, approximately how much will it cost? noes it include cost to hook up to the house? mayor Hilde said you would have the additional cost of having a plamber hook it up from the property line to your house. Fred Perry said it costs about $4.50 per foot and the meter and permit will be another $80,nO, Mayor Hilde spid this item should be on the check list before the meeting. Mr. Hinge said he is for it, miss itarie Mihm, 2710 Kirkwood, aaid you indicated that the individual projects would be done on basis of need first, as much as possible. flow much time do you think the project will cover - we have sewer? Engineor Rudrud said that would be hard to say, if started next spring it will be completed by the first of October. `tiss ;tihm said I am one of the unfortunate ones who had to put in a new well, so I vsuld like us to be deleted. In answer to `tr. liettle, I have contacted eve,... one on Kirkwood and found no one in favor of water. tie have had 3 neva wc'ls put in Yost year. `tr. Peterson and Yr. Isdahi have my same views. It Was indicated a street could be left out. Kirvn400d its a dead- end street. :favor llilde said it depends on the Rtreet, it is possible, but it has been our experience when you order a project you dei it all if you are going to do it. ?ties Milim said it is hard to get clohhered for a ten well and again for this, a number are on :Axed incomes on that street. I nm ;against it for our street. Mayor 1111de introduced listrUt 33A Representative, Lon Heinitz, Who wns in the audience. lie was given a hand. tr. Andy Lee, 1.-18`)1 114th Avu. N'. , said I am to favor of seater. I do not nood it now, but nine in :t rear or year anti a Ralf, and we on the Ftrr Vept,, would like to see fire hy1drnnts. It is pretty rough to drive; through tho residential nrens and see the children watching us anti never knowing If they w.11 jump out to front of its. It makes it hard fnr us. I would like to secs it lout in on b'egt Motitelne Lake Drive and the possibility of saving a .life. 0 Page 10, Spacial "eeting, 'lay 1971 Mr. Jack Swendeman, 1123 Llest `teadicine Lake Drive, said my tluesticll is where gill the water cone in, from Highway #55? Engineer Itudrud. o=ltd yes and down West Yedicine Lake Drive. Mr. Schwendeman said, then 157lll they start digging on the west side? Engineer Rudrud said first we will have to determine what will he ordered, then make a decision on when it: will be done. fir. Schwendeman said when you Showed the slides you mentioned about the sides, would not the proper side be the East? Engineer Rudrud said generally it is the Eas: cidAl but we do not know if it is the proper place. "r. Schwendeman asked if an- other decision is made who will he talk to, you? Yes said rhe Engineer. "r. Schwendeman said he is in favor of it. tr. Cary Gibbons, 1320 Ives Lane, said he was in favor of tale water. lie does not need it but is sure that he will, tae have sewer. I question the need ",or storm sewer, we do not have a problem and I question the need for street improvement. Is it just curb and gutter? `favor iIilde said no and the rnFineer said it would possibly be considered for a 5 -ton road and curb and Rutter in- stead of just a ma: laid in after sewer, it could go either way. Vayor [tilde said if you put in curb and gutter then you must rut in storm sewer. nther-- wise, when you get drainage problems in the future, you will wreck the curb and guner getting it in. Mr. Gibbons asked if it was possible to put in only the water and not the streets. Engineer Hanestroo said Yes. I Ir. Walter Dotzenrud,105 Evergreen, said he was in favor of the water. I have had well problems. As far its tite storm sewer is involved in our street tr. Hintz is the only otte who has a problem. If there is goings to be any storm sewer repair I do not thihk it will be necessary for Involvement in constructing our street. We hail it fixed up when cur sewer was put in. M, have not had any trouble with water conditions. I am in favor of water, but storm newer is not needed. I was wondering about the time Plemont - 2 years to hook up, is that right? Yes, said `tayor 'lilda. Fie said I would like to keep nv well for yard use. `layor llilde said that was ol(nv. Yr. ')otzenrod asked if he wcntld he assessed for the usage Our. ing thc% time we are not using; water if T do not want to Moak up? Mayor itilde ,said you will be assessed for the cost of the protect and after that there is a S3.nn per qunrter availa- hility chnrgie; after two vears. lss Col.adys Rippe, 261n [,`est "r-stitcinc Lake Drive, catd I would like to know id ;it my assessment will he costing me. We are nlong 76ati tc` or this sale of the drainape with over 3n neres. glow widen is the drive in front of mr property? Ftig.ineor Ronestroo said it is 66 fe(-t. Councilman hunt solid the center rtght-of-wa%ti is not alvnys trtte. She said people stdem to thing; that because we ares open ;pace they h,-vo the right to conic onto nur prop- erty and .I ant aj,ainst tho project. i havo notict,%0 sticl:,r 'inve bt+.rn pInved Oil the adgae of the road, bot to front of to; -it goes clot -m into our property. Court t lmati hunt said tlio ;[,trio Lltl nit tv be int- donck rn County "oats OV by Clay County Ieho ha,; a p roll r,t"I to uht,ro their r t,' t-- f -t •ay is on 111 County roads. l :;ul,fu'st yoti call lots Kirkland of the County lilgin-ri'v olit, and f tnd our_ ,about this. "i.s•; t:tppo said they h ivV t;rnt+ tioon our tlrivo now and LIM,% y.ati 1-4 ott ottr ntrlo. The'.- [;ilk sbout rei,lacint, surfnces, the Cas Co. never did atV tltd not put grass to cher(+. VL11 the ir`--o,ionivnt l o on nur alth, al%nili? "a. -or l'lldo gatd rho 1 attic• are itnt dotormt.totl onrtlllli to givo vntt an atiswor t th til. C. rott 10- ehe%! I, +'t tll t'11r! [anti. f•tt. `Invor iii Ido .%;a ld tater for 1r aoroik, oquivaloot to Its tort.• strictly an esttr-ate t'onr+ in a groat hurry, t\%; it iloat: t wort of 1)l out 0ct,flfltl. Wjit untag tile, tlr6ioct Ls ortivrod ant: PA -Vo tis al)okiv o t -cu[[[ll ant i l t11e plan t•(%tg tlono 41110 (alc: to tho 11ir,,ttiok,r. The o 14,Of) 1) is- a \vor\It rouvIt iden. '188 Ilippo maid %'t" illwav;2 havo to stllf for I'or t't,rt, 61,,,1 part[ i r on Cio ol'lior 'i t,al't. I Pale 11, Special Yzeting, :'.ay 20, 1971 Mr. Kenneth Foster, 2645 LaRch Lane, asked what are the proposed street Imp- rovements for Larch Lane north of 26th? Engineer Rudrud said this is hei.ag considered for all improvements with an alternate for restoration. only, 32' roadways with curb and gutter. Mr. Foster preferred res,tda,tion s more desira'lle, we Oo ru;t need cure and gutter of storm draina'ge•, I am in favor of water. Wil)At be possible for me to talk ,to the people ,on the street and make t:uY feeL'ings known? Yes, sald "tayor Hilde, we wuu''.d like that very much. Next Monday we will have a tweeting- if you can come '.lack to 'u-1 with a petition by tnen t will help us a .lot. Mr. Foster said it iri?1 be okay to resurface the street to what it is. lr. Lauer said down on 1.8th I notice the storm sewer is going to the back and in front of my yard - is that ricffit? 'Mayor Hilde said that is just a boundary line. Mr. Torrisson said i,t seelgs that people will have the project in one way %Jr another, but you have only givewtt us the cost for the whole thing. flow can those who want ,just water, and not storm sewer figure it ou':? Mayor Hi?,de asked him to come to the meeting"londay night. Councilman Hunt said ycu have the breakdowas on the handout and you can take out the lte :1s ,you do :lot watt. tr. Torrisson snie - say this area gets jus* sewer a id the Creekwocd Heights First does not get any benefit of getting bonds, the combination ,hould be getting a better price. Engineer Eonestroo said you must undersrand the people already have bid for sewer, we di not want to go into Creeks oot'. Heights and put ,n just sewer, we must diS in the whole toad. Ve have nothing else to do but Fut in a new woad. In C)-cokwood Letghts we cannot lout i11 sewer and not restore the streat, air. Torr:tsson said people thitln they to -ill get sewer in the back. If the rilla£e wotild tnt:e enre of the roads that would be okay but by hivinp, .f.: lout in the back t;e stave many. I'ost :,ave walkout hasements so Gle mL11.jrJ%-1v of rhe people wotll.d ,'ant it done that way, batt the F:ngi ta 1r tulicat.E*s you do tint like that. 'engineer bidrud said then we would have two areas to restore because the hydrants will have to on the street, so water Weill be .ia the street and .if sod hu^ to he repl.yaced.. it cna3ts as much as the street. . `tr, Tort Lsson said the tieopl.e do near utlti:'rstand chat. t'ounci.ln`ttr Hint ; saLd we have not told talc reople tt will vc t3oum the hack. They knrtw there was no de.:isioo made OT1 {t. `'.aver 11i1:le said ;tecaune we do not know we cannt-%t :ltnsver questions. 7f the find on `aoaday there a1se too mnnv rvostinns to answor will not decide. I. personally, do not think it can ho dune i'nmedive. . we gave n lit of resolving t+i do and it ±s not simple. qtr. a'orrisson comp arn., Cho project with the *1jacon Heights prolrct put in for $9.0% nvor 11l.lde said I tried to tell, you :at t':ht% hol;inAng of the meeting thnt when rte% p+it ';eider in the street it is ru,ine.1 ,ind a now street is neceR'sarv. "r. ortisswit asked if Lt will oe put 1N.ach- I,vforo k,•tntor If tone this falle! % lavor Hilde 1„aid that's what we linvo to tar.citle - the tixii'. g, V.e prefer not to ht. .ve t r eMt1 :ill Cha a=t;Tint; time. Ir. VoC-t:lt' amid I 1-i,h to oxllror;= my ilpprociatiOn for tho rLteo S!Otl ;ipollf: IiRColtille, to 11S, 9. tin lillond ;lie ruillov, a 1:'4611 t+10 O'MAlloor 1•'oul l note the, `lt %tlo s on ,9.htat, it tires rot ;1r thrrug.la 1 v C, i'1,o 11'..r I t• , i t i,l ttl+iltt- 1 110 1 ` +rv, % ; 1 r .0' ccs % ''WO -V t' t ''t Tttl. Y Bill +rt; .t l'tit°t, i t 11 earl,', ,• r .: to l l r r\t tai )Zoe a Ktrl1 and oiut . ".v tti wort It Page 12, Special Meeting, May 20, 1971 r. James D. Ford, part owner of Felders Colf Range, said he has not studied the program and does not know whether he is fo:• or against it. Councilman hunt told him lie was not in the area. `3r. Ford said he received a, notice so came. Someone asked if it is Netter to state whether we are for or against now b' petition. Mayor Ulde said, yes and do iz as soon as you can, before cniday night will he okay. Public hearing closed at 11:00 F'.`!. Mr. ilerb vutter, 2685 [.est `Ied.iclne Lake Blvd., had related by phone to thus ViUl'age Clerk that h.p is in favor c:f the water project proposed for his area. 641eeting adjourned. i At;.est 1 L Al Iiilde, Jr,, `cryor