HomeMy WebLinkAboutCity Council Minutes 12-06-2005 SpecialApproved Minutes
Joint City Council/Planning Commission Meeting
December 6, 2005 at 7:00 p.m.
Mayor Johnson called a Joint Council/Planning Commission Meeting to order at 7:00
p.m. in the Plymouth Room, Plymouth Creek Center, 14800 34th Avenue North, on
December 6, 2005.
COUNCIL PRESENT: Mayor Johnson, Councilmembers Bildsoe, Hewitt, Slavik, Stein,
and Willis.
ABSENT: C'ou cilmember Black.
PLANNING COMMISSION PRESENT: Chair Weir, Commissioners Clyman,
Musliner, Holmes, Anderson, and Murdock.
ABSENT: Commissioner Franke Wilson.
STAFF PRESENT: City Manager Ahrens, Community Development Community
Development Director Hurlburt, Assistant Building Official Farris, Planning Manager
Senness, Senior Planner Drill, Planner Doty, Associate Planner Noelting, Public Works
Director Cote, Parks and Recreation Director Eric Blank, Police Chief Goldstein, Fire
Chief Kline, and Deputy City Clerk Hoffinan.
Also Present: Dean Johnson, Land Use Planner/Consultant.
Community Development Community Development Director Hurlburt stated the purpose
of the evening's meeting is to continue discussion about land use for the two Northwest
Plymouth planning areas, designated areas 1 and 2 in the Land Use Plan update. She
stated that Plymouth is planning its updates in a regional context since there is intense
development in surrounding communities, particularly in Maple Grove.
She reviewed the Metropolitan Council anticipated growth trends forecast for the city.
She stated the city population is currently estimated at 71,000, with forecasts for a
population around 78,500 by 2030. She noted the Metropolitan Council requires the city
to use this data in developing its comprehensive plan. She stated the average household
size is expected to grow smaller while the number of households would continue to,
increase.
She reported on a number of population trends from the latest census:
Plymouth's average population is older than corresponding county, state, or
national averages
The size of older age groups is growing, with fewer than half of Plymouth
residents actually having children sof school age
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Joint Council/Planning Commission Meeting of December 6, 2005
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Plymouth has a larger labor force on average especially women than the state or
the county
An increasing number of homes have both householders working; and so the
median income is increasing
She summarized some elements of the housing stock in Plymouth:
Of existing housing stock, 55% are single family, detached homes while 24% are
traditional apartment type homes, with the remaining a variety of town homes or
condominiums
The proportion of various types of housing in Plymouth does not differ much
from most other neighboring communities such as Minnetonka and Eden Prairie,
but communities like Crystal and New Hope do not have as many town homes
The number of multiple unit dwellings would continue to increase, while detached
housing is forecast to decrease
Approximately 75% of the residential property in Plymouth is owner occupied
Residential property values would continue to increase dramatically in Plymouth
People are continuing to re—invest in their homes, a good sign for the local
economy and residential home values
She stated the implications for future land use include shifting demands on transportation,
recreation and social services. She stated the types.of housing development in the land
areas under review would likely mean stable school—age population, but the Wayzata
School District is keeping track of populations in Plymouth and surrounding communities
with the potential for a new school to be built in the area. She stated the growth of
surrounding communities would likely exceed Plymouth's. She stated that 80% of the
forecast housing levels for 2030 are already built.
Community Development Director Hurlburt spoke about how land is being used in
Plymouth. She noted that how density is measured can vary, depending on whether
developable land is considered, or lot size is considered after discounting streets,
wetlands, and open spaces. She stated that the Metropolitan Council uses different
measurement guidelines than the City.
The largest use of land in Plymouth is for single dwelling homes (46%), followed
by park space and designated open space
The average lot size for single family dwellings in Plymouth is 2.13 units per
acre, while the average lot size for attached housing is about 12 and a half units
per acre; the overall average in Plymouth is 3 units per acre
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated 6,300 new residential units are
projected for development through 2030. She stated this development could go in a
variety of locations. She stated there is not a lot of vacant land left in the urban area, but
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some could be redeveloped for more intense use, or the urban area could be expanded
through a change in the Comprehensive Plan.
She stated that after discounting wetlands, only about 200 acres in the urban area would
be developable. However, if lots over five acres in the urban area are considered for
subdivision and redevelopment, the City should be able to accommodate an estimated
additional 560-1,030 units.
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated that in Planning Area 1, most of the
area has been developed, with the exception of the Hampton Hills Golf Course. She
stated the average lot size in the area is approximately seven acres, and that excluding
wetlands Gild laird +LLlat is riot ili hood plain, the net acreage that can be developed is about
358 acres. She stated only about 100 acres of that is the golf course.
She stated that Planning Area 2 is a larger area outside the urban area, and it would need
sewer service from the Elm Creek Interceptor. She stated there are larger areas of
wetlands in the area, some commercial development, parks area, some acreage set aside
for a possible school, and the Elm Creek Golf Course. She stated if the area is urbanized
the net developable acreage is 1,232 acres.
She stated that the City would be expected to plan a certain amount of acreage to be
designated as affordable housing. She stated the impact of that is still not known. She
stated depending on what levels of density the City chooses and how much land would be
guided at higher density, a variety of combinations could be set to reach the Metropolitan
Council's requirements.
She stated the requirements might also be met if Planning Areas 1 and 2 urbanize with a
density of three to five units per acre. She noted that preserving existing smaller lot rural
areas would reduce available land for new housing.
Discussion of Area 1
Community Development Community Development Director Hurlburt asked
Councilmembers to consider whether the City should continue the principles of the
previous Comprehensive Plan, avoid further development of the area, or look at
alternative options to consider. She stated that the City might need to negotiate with the
Metropolitan Council in the process of setting development levels.
Mayor Johnson asked about how the City could encourage homeowners to cooperate in
increasing density. She did not believe the City could force residents to sell their land for
development. Community Development Director Hurlburt replied that when considering
whether to subdivide lots to create greater housing density, landowners have choices, but
that cities have ways to encourage certain choices such as assessments for providing new
services. She stated the City would need a logical order to notify residents about the
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possible development of those services and the time line so that the City can manage the
development as well.
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated that the City should calculate density
and range of development, areas critical to planning for the sewer system, and
transportation plans. She stated growth is occurring faster than anticipated so that the
density calculations need to be revised. She expected that the City could accommodate
greater density.
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated that because the forecast for density
levels increased, cities are being requested to review their figures. She stated in 2000, the
City did not plan for urban service extension to enough land to accommodate the 2020
forecast made. She stated forecasts for 2030 are being included because of increased
growth and changes in the approach to efficient use of the existing urban services such as
the new sewer line. She stated that even if the 2020 forecast figures had been adopted and
been in place by the City, the Metropolitan Council would request another review.
Councilmembers and the Planning Commission members discussed growth in the
planning areas.
Councilmember Willis stated when discussing land use densities, the City needs to
consider whether it could afford the staging of public facilities and support more roads,
sewer and water. He noted the City is not permitted to charge impact fees, and residents
would not support paying street construction fees with property taxes.
Commissioner Holmes stated he believed residents who reside in the planning areas want
an idea on what would occur with parcels of land around them and the effect of
commercial development.
In response to a question from Commissioner Clyman about whether the Elm Creek
interceptor would serve Planning Areas 1 and 2, Community Development Director
Hurlburt replied that only the areas presently outside the urban service area would be
served. She stated after the land use is designated, the City would know how the sewer
and water system would need to be adjusted to serve the areas. She stated the interceptor
was placed further away from the planning area, and the City might need to provide
another trunk main or other ways to connect to it.
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated that the Hampton Hills Golf Course
currently has no redevelopment plans for their property. She stated the City would need
to amend its Comprehensive Plan if a development would be proposed, and developers
would need to propose how water and sewer services would be provided. She stated the
City would control how that occurs, and how those projects would be paid for. The City
could choose not to assess the existing development, and absorb the costs. It could assess
projects based on the estimated property value, or assessments could be deferred.
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Councilmember Hewitt stressed the Metropolitan Council needs to consider
transportation and transit as well as population -density and utility services. She added she
would like to see the Hampton Hills Golf Course portion developed but leave the rest of
the area undeveloped.
Councilmember Willis stated he would like to move to a broader scheme of reviewing
land use rather than focus on a few parcels. He stated he could support allowing residents
to develop their land if they desired.
Mayor Johnson supported that concept, but stated in planning out 20 years, the City needs
the flexibility to negotiate possible density with residents. She agreed with
Councilmember Hewitt's concept of retaining a rural_ area, but fears that could raise
problems with the Metropolitan Council as a possible "hole" in meeting development
guidelines. She stated she would like to see general guiding for the area as well and to
encourage developers to provide solutions to finance needed infrastructure issues.
Councilmembers Slavik and Hewitt stated they would prefer lower density for Area 1,
except perhaps along the Canadian Pacific Rail line, with a few larger lots remaining in
the area.
Councilmember Willis requested that when considering housing density, the City should
consider terrain and topographic issues. Community Development Director Hurlburt
agreed and stated that updated information in those areas would be included in the very
near future.
Commissioner Murdock commented she doesn't believe that the City would be able to
provide the affordable housing forecasts by the Metropolitan Council.
Councilmember Hewitt stated redevelopment should be considered as an option for
affordable housing.
Councilmember Slavik stated that along with providing affordable housing, access to
other services should be considered or residents would not be able to move into
affordable housing because services such as transit aren't there.
Commissioner Clyman agreed with the above comments, and stated that he is concerned
that when the Hampton Hills Golf property is redeveloped, there could be inadequate
street improvements to handle the increased traffic.
Mayor Johnson stated the City needs to emphasize rehabilitation programs as an option
for affordable housing.
Discussion of Area 2
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated the area is primarily zoned as rural
residential, except for the City owned property and the Elm Creek Golf Course. She
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stated the water system is on a different alignment from Planning Area 1, and the City
would need to consider where water service would be coming from. She stated the street
plan would need to take into consideration the future role of Peony Lane and future
connections to Maple Grove. She stated the east—west routes would need further
consideration as well, assuming much of the area would continue to be zoned residential.
Councilmember Stein stated he did not believe the approach to Planning Area 2 should be
much different than Planning Area 1. He stated he would like to see one, two, or five acre
lots. He stated it would be important to have services paid for as property is redeveloped.
He stated he would like to see development similar to the Taryn Hills project, with four
to five acre lots, and lower density.
Mayor Johnson stated she believed the City could pick up some density through
development of projects like Gramercy Park Cooperative on busier roads.
Councilmembers and Planning Commissioners discussed making affordable housing
available in the area along with transit options. They also discussed possible areas for
neighborhood commercial amenities.
Commissioner Clyman suggested senior housing along Hamel Road and Highway 55
where there is more commercial development.
Community Development Director Hurlburt stated the City would need.to show
conceptually what it plans to do and that it would meet the needs of the community.
Mayor Johnson stated the City should work with Maple Grove to coordinate density
issues along the mutual borders.
Councilmembers and Commissioners discussed golf courses and City maintenance. All
agreed that this would not be an area the City should enter into. They discussed how
much restriction should be placed on development of the Hollydale Course, and
expressed concern about the legal aspects of attempting to keep a course from residential
development.
Next Steps
City Manager Ahrens thought that Council sounded willing to negotiate with the
Metropolitan Council on target levels for development density and housing but that the
City would be presenting something closer to the lower end of the Metropolitan Council
target figures.
Mayor Johnson stated she did not necessarily want to be confrontational with the
Metropolitan Council on their forecasts, but she would be willing to work with them on
their guidelines.
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Community Development Community Development Director Hurlburt stated that staff
would refine inventory statistics to include utility systems and report on how much land
could be worked within a 25—year plan.
Mayor Johnson requested that staff return promptly with information if the proposals are
out of range, rather than waiting to present the advisories when it might be too late.
Councilmember Hewitt requested offering several options for each point rather than
making a single recommendation.
Community Development Community Development Director Hurlburt announced that
residents are invited to a listening session December 12 at 7:00 p.m.
Mayor Johnson adjourned the meeting at 10:05 p.m.
ru 41-
urt Hoffinan, Deputy City Clerk