HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 02-11-1997CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
FEBRUARY 11, 1997
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Allen Ribbe
arrived at 7:09 p.m.), Roger Berkowitz, John Stoebner,
Jeffrey Thompson, and Kim Koehnen (arrived at 9:26 p.m.)
MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioner Bob Stein
STAFF PRESENT: Community Development Director Anne Hurlburt, Planning
Supervisor Barb Senness, Planners Shawn Drill and Kendra
Lindahl, City Engineer Dan Faulkner, and Clerical
Supervisor Denise Hutt
1. CALL TO ORDER:
2. PUBLIC FORUM:
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
Chairman Stulberg recommended that item 7A be heard after item 7B, seconded by
Commissioner Berkowitz.
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Commissioner Thompson requested that a change be made to Page 20, Paragraph 8, that
to the contrary" be changed to "of the hardship". MOTION by Commissioner
Stoebner, seconded by Commissioner Berkowitz. Vote. 4 Ayes. MOTION carried on a
unanimous vote.
5. CONSENT AGENDA:
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (96181)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by the City of Plymouth to consider
reclassification of the commercial site located at the southeast corner of Highway 55 and
County Road 24, the "Seven Ponds Commercial Site" from "C" (Commercial) to "CO"
Commercial Office) on the City's land use guide plan; and, a concurrent rezoning of the
property to "O -R" (Office Residential).
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #24
Planning Supervisor Senness gave an overview of the February 7, 1997 staff report.
Commissioner Thompson asked if the first tier of pads is requided to commercial office
could the developer put in a gas stations or convenience store on a conditional use basis.
Planning Supervisor Senness replied affirmatively. Commissioner Thompson asked if the
PUD zoning is maintained, but the first tier of pads is reguided to commercial office,
would we have that same degree of flexibility. Planning Supervisor Senness replied
affirmatively. Director Hurlburt stated that every use becomes a rezoning.
Commissioner Thompson asked who would pay for the traffic signals. Planning
Supervisor Senness replied that it hasn't been determined at this point, but it is possible
that the landowner may have to pay some of those improvements. Commissioner
Thompson asked if they have the authority to put those costs on the landowners. Director
Hurlburt stated it would be better determined at the site planning stage.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked where the 200 foot strip would be in the relationship to
the size of the property. Planning Supervisor Senness pointed out the strip on the location
map.
Chairman Stulberg continued the public hearing. Chairman Stulberg introduced a letter
dated February 11, 1997 from Brian D. McMorris of 3255 Garland Lane North. In his
letter, Mr. McMorris stated that anyone who has visited the site and the neighborhood will
instinctively know that the proposed use of the property is totally out of context with the
surrounding neighborhood. The need for a project of this magnitude is questionable in the
first place. He stated in his letter that no one from the neighborhood is questioning the
commercial status of the property, only the scale of the commercial use. Mr. McMorris
stated that not one of the property uses are designed to serve pedestrians and that the
traffic study done for the project seriously underestimates the traffic impact on the
primarily residential neighborhood. In his letter, he questioned staff's finding that Medina
Road serves as an adequate transition area. He stated that the neighborhood has no egress
except to Medina Road. Mr. McMorris requested that the property be requided to O -R.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mike Walters of 3285 Garland Lane. Mr. Walters stated
his concerns for pedestrians. For the uses that are proposed for the site, it is not
realistically geared toward pedestrians. The increased volume of traffic will discourage
pedestrian traffic. Mr. Walters stated that no one in the neighborhood has asked for
convenient commercial access via biking or walking. There is an abundance of similar
commercial offerings within a two mile radius. Mr. Walters stated that what makes him
stay in Plymouth is the quality of life, but questions now whether that is being
compromised. Mr. Walters requested that the site be changed to O -R. Mr. Walters said
that there is no bike path along the northern end of Dunkirk, and if the development goes
in, that path would need to be put in. He stated that there is no other access out of the
residential area other than Medina Road.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #25
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ken Solom of 3295 Garland Lane. Mr. Solom stated he
has lived in Plymouth for 22 years and built his current home five years ago. He stated
that he talked with Hans Hagen Homes on several occasions and this proposal is very
different that what they were told when they built their home. He stated that common
sense would tell you that this is not a good working plan. He stated that the people that
built their homes in Sugar Hills knew what was surrounding them at the time and they
have more than one entrance and exit to their site. Mr. Solom stated that he is concerned
about the traffic.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jerry Ruegemer of 3290 Garland Lane. Mr. Ruegemer
presented a graphic depicting information given to him when he purchased his home. The
development graphic given to them indicated a low density commercial project. He stated
no stop lights were indicated on the plan. Mr. Ruegemer stated that the residents are
asking to be involved in the planning process that would ultimately affect their
neighborhood.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Dan Robbins of 2585 Brockton Lane. Mr. Robbins stated
that he owns land within the questioned site and does not want the property to be rezoned.
Mr. Robbins stated that over a several year period, he looked for land that would fit his
need for an automotive service. He stated that the automotive service business is only
allowed in a commercial service guiding. The only question is when he could build. In
1982 he purchased the property. In 1989 the City proposed that the majority of his
property be requided from commercial service to industrial even though the City knew
their intention of use. He was told that an area east of County Road 24 is zoned
commercial service and his use would be allowed. He stated that under the proposal,
automotive repair is not allowed. He stated that 18 years is a long time to be told that he
can't use his property for the use he intended all along. Mr. Robbins stated that this land
is his retirement account. He stated that since 1992 he has paid over $162,000 in property
taxes, and has given two acres to Hennepin County for County Road 24. He stated that
the proposal to reguide is not right or ethical.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Kim Reaume of 3305 Garland Lane. Mr. Reaume stated
his preference to reguide to Commercial Office. He stated that the residents should not
have to live with old mistakes.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jerry Petig of 3300 Garland Lane. Mr. Pietig stated that he
purchased his lot based on the information that the commercial area would not be high
density. He stated that of 16 homes on Holly Lane, three of those have lost money. He
said that the Hans Hagen proposal would have a negative affect on their property values.
Mr. Peitig stated that he is not in favor of a traffic signal at Garland Lane and Medina
Road. He stated that the traffic study did not encompass the added number of cars that
would be coming in and out of the site. He stated that common sense would dictate that
Commercial Office would be the best use for the neighborhood.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #26
Chairman Stulberg introduced Bart Phillips of 3440 Holly Lane. Mr. Phillips stated that
he lives across the street from the Moen-Leuer development and that they are still
encountering problems with noise, lights, traffic and trash. He stated that the proposed
reguiding would be a good working solution for everyone. Mr. Phillips stated his
opposition to a traffic light on County Road 24 and Medina Road. He stated that what
was told to them when they built their home and what is being proposed by Hans Hagen
now are two totally different projects.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Tom Krueger of 3310 Garland Lane. Mr. Krueger stated
his support to reguide the property to Commercial Office. Mr. Krueger questioned the
number one finding in the Summary of Findings on Page 7 of the report prepared by SRF
Consulting Group. He asked what significantly less means. Mr. Krueger stated that on
Table 1 - Trip Generation Estimates under Proposed Land Use, the total daily trips is
7,083 compared to 24,629 daily trips under the Current Land Use/Concept Plan which is a
350 percent difference. Mr. Krueger said to take the Concept Plan and add a 64,000
square foot grocery store was not taken into account when the study was prepared. With
that, you would then have a change of 500 to 700 percent. Mr. Krueger stated that in
looking at the Directional Trip Distribution map, 81 percent of the daily trip distribution
will be required to use Garland Lane or Dunkirk Lane. He stated that 72 percent of the
traffic which comes from Highway 55 will be expected to use Garland Lane as their
primary entrance. Mr. Krueger stated that when you increase traffic 500 to 700 percent
and concentrate 72 percent to Garland Lane with a left hand turn lane or a left hand turn,
there will be incident after incident. That is the only place that the children have to wait
for the school bus.
Mr. Krueger stated that the last thing that he wants to see when he is trying to sleep is a
traffic signal blinking at night and competing with the lights from any commercial use
across the street. Mr. Krueger quoted the three requirements suggested from the traffic
study if the property were reguided. He stated that none of these requirements would be
needed if the property is reguided to office/residential. Mr. Krueger stated that the
residents don't understand staff's interpretation of the independent traffic study quoting
Page 8, Paragraph 3 and Page 9, Paragraph 6 of the staff report. Mr. Krueger stated that
the traffic study did indicate that there would be a problem with cars trying to turn left off
of Medina Road onto Garland Lane, backing up into the intersection of County Road 24.
He stated that the residents do not want a traffic signal installed on Garland Lane and
Medina Road. Mr. Krueger stated that the traffic study did not identify measures to
address site access under both a commercial and commercial office guiding as indicated on
Page 10, Paragraph one of the staff report. It said that extending Medina Road through to
Vicksburg Lane would alleviate the left turn problem. Mr. Krueger stated that he can't
find anything in the traffic study that would support staff's comment on Page 11,
Paragraph 9 pertaining to the level or type of truck traffic.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #27
Mr. Krueger stated that a partial reguiding of the property for the first 200 feet north of
Medina does nothing to change the results of the traffic study or address the concerns of
the residents.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Hans Hagen of 2811 McKenzie Point Road. Mr. Hagen
gave a brief history of the development. Mr. Hagen stated that he purchased the first
parcel in 1987. An early traffic plan indicated that County Road 24 would connect with
County Road 9 and even a traffic interchange was planned for the area. With that
knowledge, they proceeded to buy property at that intersection. A sketch plan was
brought into the City and he was told that the land parcel was too small for a Planned Unit
Development. They were told that the sketch plan must conform with land use guide plan
element and the thoroughfare guide plan element. The first issue they dealt with was the
lack of size. They purchased an adjacent site which enabled them to apply for a Planned
Unit Development, but they still didn't meet the transportation plan with the land needed
for dedicating property for County Road 24. They then bought another two parcels of
land, one from Mr. Robbins. The net result over a period of two years is that they were
able to put together a 106 acre parcel known as Seven Ponds. Mr. Hagen stated they then
submitted a plan which met all the requirements. Mr. Hagen stated that if the City had to
go and pull all of these pieces together to meet their comprehensive plan, it would have
cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Mr. Hagen said that as a developer, they did
everything that the City required. Mr. Hagen stated that with all due respect to the
residents, they did everything that the City required. He apologized that the plan that
went out to potential homeowners was just a preliminary plan, with their main objective
being to let people know that there would be a commercial development. Mr. Hagen
stated that he is concerned that the Commission sustain the current zoning. He stated that
the City was right in their plan 30 years ago and is right today. He stated that it is only
right and ethical that the City retain the current guiding and zoning.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Linda Fisher of 1500 Norwest Financial Center. Ms. Fisher
stated that she represents Hans Hagen. Ms. Fisher presented an outline to the
Commissioners. Ms. Fisher stated that Mr. Hagen opposes reguiding of any portion of the
Seven Ponds commercial site and any concurrent rezoning. Ms. Fisher stated that Mr.
Hagen supports retaining the existing Planned Unit Development zoning. She outlined the
key characteristics related to the proposed land use guide plan amendment. The site is
26.1 acres and is surrounded on three sides by major roadways classified by function in the
City's transportation plan as follows: Highway 55 - principal arterial, County Road 24 -
minor arterial, and Medina Road - major collector. The Transportation Plan works hand
in glove with the Land Use Guide Plan. Part of the process of transportation planning is
to determine the function of each roadway in the system. One of the objectives is then to
plan and design streets and highways to accommodate full development of the City in
accordance with the adopted Land Use Guide Plan. Principal arterials, minor arterials and
major collectors are designed to carry substantial amounts of traffic in accordance with the
adopted Land Use Guide Plan. She stated that this means that the basic roadway system
was built to accommodate commercial traffic from the Seven Ponds commercial site as
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #28
well as other existing and projected traffic through the year 2020. Ms. Fisher stated that
land to the west is guided, zoned and developed for industrial use; land to the south and
southwest is guided, zoned and developed for residential use; and, land to the north and
east of the site on the north side of Highway 55 is guided commercial office and is
undeveloped.
Ms. Fisher gave an overview of the history of the Seven Ponds Mixed Use Planned Unit
Development Conditional Use Permit and Plat as stated previously by Mr. Hagen. She
stated that the City Council on July 16, 1990, approved Hans Hagen Homes' Mixed Use
Planned Unit Development Concept Plan, Preliminary Plan and Plat and Conditional Use
Permit for 66 acres. In 1991 after a number of hearings, the City Council approved single
family detached building lots, three service commercial lots and four industrial lots. The
City Council also approved a Preliminary Plan/Plat/Conditional Use Permit for Seven
Ponds 2nd Addition. Ms. Fisher read excerpts from the Planning Department staff report
dated August 14, 1991. The City Council approved a Development Contract for Seven
Ponds 2nd Addition and set conditions to be met prior to filing of and related to the Final
Plat. On December 30, 1996, Hans Hagen applied to the City for necessary approvals for
an amended PUD to be known as Plymouth Station on the Seven Ponds commercial site.
The reason was to add an adjacent piece of property not currently in the PUD. She stated
that the site plan submitted is not before the Commission at this time and that she would
not comment or address specific issues pertaining to the layout or density.
Ms. Fisher stated that Minnesota law recognizes a constitutionally protected property
interest in a conditional use permit. A property interest clearly runs with the affected land
citing Northpointe Plaza v. City of Rochester. A conditional use permit remains in effect
until its conditions are violated citing Dege v. City of Maplewood and State ex rel.
Neighbors, etc. v. Dotty. A conditional use permit is in the nature of a contract between
the city and a private party for the use of a piece of property citing State v. Larson Tr.
And Storage, Inc. A City does not have the authority to enact or enforce an ordinance
that terminates an existing conditional use permit regardless of whether the permit holder
is continuing to comply with the permit's conditions citing Minnesota Attorney General's
Opinion .59a-32 February 27, 1990. Ms. Fisher stated that this means that the City cannot
unilaterally terminate the conditional use permit.
Ms. Fisher cited several cases of Minnesota Law recognizing a presumption of correctness
of the original zoning (land use guiding). The original zoning classification of property is
presumed to be well planned, and it is expected to be somewhat permanent. To overcome
the presumption an appellant must show either that there was some mistake in the original
zoning or that the character of the neighborhood has changed to such an extent that no
reasonable use can be made of the property in its current zoning classification.
Ms. Fisher stated that the property owner has not sat on his property rights and has
actively pursued vacation of old road alignments in support of the City Transportation
Plan for over two years. Mr. Hagen has a pending application to amend the PUD in
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #29
reliance on historic guiding. There is precedent for the city to exempt development for
which complete applications have been submitted prior to ordinance enactment or sites
that have undergone substantial improvements or alterations from subsequent changes to
official controls.
Mr. Fisher stated that all eleven findings in the February 7, 1997, staff report (Pages 13-
14) support retention of the historic commercial land use guide plan designation on the
entire property.
Ms. Fisher stated that commercial land use on a per square foot basis will generate more
traffic on a daily basis than office development. Good planning means you look at a
number of criteria. Ms. Fisher indicated that any improvements needed to the site will be
addressed during the site planning stage. Referring to the City's traffic study, the levels
of service are comparable. The site is difficult to serve and there will be delays with any of
the categories under consideration. The left turn issue is related to the location and
characteristics of the site, not land use. She stated that the traffic study is comparing
worst case to worst case. The trip generation including the grocery store is less than what
is in this study.
Ms. Fisher stated the reguiding to Commercial Office is not necessary to achieve a land
use transition. The owner has already established a transition. Medina Road is an
appropriate transition between single family neighborhoods and higher intensity uses.
Berming and landscaping has already been installed by Hans Hagen Homes south of
County Road 24. Ms. Fisher stated that Mr. Hagen submitted an amended PUD plan
which locates less intense uses next to Medina Road and proposes additional buffering
north and south of Medina Road.
Ms. Fisher urged the Planning Commission to vote against the recommended motion in
the staff report and retain the commercial guiding for the entire site. Ms. Fisher stated
that the concerns stated by the residents are challenges that can be met under the current
guiding.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Barb Capece of 3320 Garland Lane. Ms. Capece stated
that the quality of life should be considered over what adequately fits. Ms. Capece stated
that she could not tolerate a stop light near her front yard. She stated that an expected
level of service need should not justify upheaval in the neighborhood. She is concerned
with the devaluation of their homes.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Scott Ford of 3270 Garland Lane. Mr. Ford urged the
commission to change the guiding to office residential for the entire property. He stated
that the residents concerns have not been addressed entirely such as the bus stop, traffic
and noise. The waiting area at the bus stop cannot be enlarged. He stated that there is no
guarantee that the snow on the sidewalk would be removed. People are not going to use
the sidewalk with intense commercial use across the street. The crime issue was not
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #30
addressed properly. He stated that if the guiding is changed to office residential, their
concerns relating to crime would be greatly alleviated. He stated that the overall size and
scope of the proposal by Mr. Hagen concerns them. He stated that the fear that comes
from seven day a week, 24-hour a day businesses has never been addressed. He stated
that the Commission vote is for kids or for cash.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Kelly Slavik of 3325 Everest Court. Ms. Slavik presented
an outline dated February 11, 1997 to the Commission. Ms. Slavik stated that they
expanded the circulation area of their petition that will be presented to the City Council.
Ms. Slavik stated that the residents do not concur with the staff's finding and
recommendation. The residents want the entire parcel changed to Office Residential.
Their petition illustrates that the neighborhood does not want fast-food restaurants, a
grocery store, or an auto service use. She stated that all residents that are within walking
or biking distance of the property want the property reguided to Commercial Office. She
stated that residents feel that crime will increase as the property is currently guided. The
traffic study does not address the issue of residents leaving and entering Everest Court
which is right next to Garland Lane. The staff report does not adequately address the
safety concerns relating to pedestrian traffic and children in the area. Fast-food
restaurants become a hangout for kids after school and after sporting events, which the
staff report does not address. Residents do not agree that both commercial and office
residential would generate almost the same number of trips during the period when
children would be waiting for buses.
Ms. Slavik stated that truck traffic will travel through the neighborhood to gain access to
the commercial property. The amount of truck traffic will be lessened if the property is
zoned office/residential. She stated that Medina Road is the only access to the
neighborhood that every resident of Garland Lane and Everest Court have. Contrary to
the staff report, the residents feel that a traffic light at Garland Lane would not be
necessary if the property were zoned office/residential. If a traffic light were installed at
Garland Lane, it would be extremely close to homes. The staff report never addresses the
difficulty that residents will have when attempting to make a left turn from Everest Court,
which is right next to Garland Lane, onto Medina Road. Ms. Slavik stated that the facts
in the traffic report clearly state that by changing the property to office/residential, there
will be over 14,000 cars less per day traveling the road, the majority attempting left hand
turns. The traffic study states that if the property is changed to office residential, there
will no longer be a need for a second west -bound left -turn lane on Highway 55 and
County Road 24. The study also states that no other significant geometric or traffic
control improvements would be required on County Road 24 or Medina Road.
Ms. Slavik stated that the light levels are still problematic for neighboring residents. Many
residents of the Plymouth Ponds area have called the city to register complaints regarding
the lights shining on their property, which is an on-going problem.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #31
Ms. Slavik stated that office/residential zoning would generate a small demand for signs
on the property, and are required to be smaller so that they are compatible with the
surrounding neighborhood.
Ms. Slavik stated that the residents are interested in how the odors from fast -foot
restaurants, grocery store dumpsters and gas stations can be abated. It would be helpful if
the city could tell the residents how the city can regulate odor.
Ms. Slavik state that there is no solution proposed to combat the higher volume of trash
and litter if the site is guided commercial as opposed to office/residential.
Ms. Slavik stated that the staff report excludes the grocery store from their noise analysis,
and that the reality is, the developer is proposing a very large grocery store on the site.
The staff report does not adequately address the residents' concern regarding intercom
systems on the proposed fast-food restaurants, gas stations and the auto service station.
There are currently many problems with noise at the Plymouth Ponds site that have not
been addressed adequately.
Ms. Slavik stated that if the property were zoned office/residential, the berming required
would not be as extensive as needed for commercial guiding. The staff report does not
address the concerns relating to snow removal.
Ms. Slavik stated the residents are asking for the property to be zoned office/residential so
that the future potential uses are limited. She stated that many of the residents knew that
the would be commercial property on the site; however, many residents were told that the
area would contain single family homes. The residents want the entire property to be
zoned office/residential. She stated that just making a small portion of the land office
residential does not met their needs and will inhibit the use and enjoyment of their
properties. Changing the property to office/residential will still allow the developer to
have an income generating commercial property site in the City of Plymouth. The
residents feel that the office/residential zoning is more than a fair compromise.
Chairman Stulberg introduced David Slavik of 3325 Everest Court. Mr. Slavik stated that
he is in agreement that the property should be zoned office/residential, as it provides a
better transition. Mr. Slavik thanked the staff and Commission for listening to the
residents and their concerns.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
Planning Supervisor Senness addressed the conflicts in the staff report and the traffic study
that were mentioned. She said that the grocery store was not included in the traffic study,
but the amount of the square footage that is in Mr. Hagen's site plan is less than what was
used in the traffic study. The amount of traffic in the p.m. peak hour is somewhat less in
Mr. Hagen's proposal than what was attached in the staff report. Director Hurlburt stated
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #32
that one of the conflicts noted was the characterization of the a.m. peak at the bus stop.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that if you look at both the in and out movements,
they are somewhat higher for the current plan, if you are comparing just the a.m. trips.
Director Hurlburt stated that for the trips in -bound, they were about the same for the
proposed commercial office guiding versus the current commercial guiding, but the trips
out for the commercial guiding were higher, so that if you look at the total trips, there
would be a difference.
Commissioner Thompson stated that the traffic study indicates the a.m. peak hour trips in-
bound are pretty much equal, but the peak trips out in the a.m. are almost double.
Chairman Stulberg asked to see a Trail System Map specifically relating to Dunkirk Lane.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that a trail on Dunkirk Lane is under contract to be built
and completed early this summer.
Chairman Stulberg commented that anyone in the City of Plymouth has a say in the
process, and that you don't have to live within the noticed area. All public hearings are
published in the official City newspaper and the meetings are televised.
In reference to access to Medina Road from Everest Court if and when this continues to
be commercial guiding, City Engineer Faulkner stated that there would be difficult access
during the peak hours, as indicated in the traffic study. He stated that there wouldn't be
any proposal for a traffic signal there, according to the traffic study. Director Hurlburt
asked what the difference would be between the two guiding options. City Engineer
replied that they didn't look at that specific intersection and indicate a level of service.
That wasn't included in their table, as it wasn't an access point to the commercial site.
Planning Supervisor asked if Garland Lane was signalized, would it provide some gap for
cars exiting at Everest. City Engineer Faulkner replied that it would possibly provide
some gaps.
Pertaining to odor and noise, Planning Supervisor Senness stated that there are state
standards for noise and levels for daytime and evenings. The City has been looking at the
possibility of doing some additional regulations in the area of the noise. The enforcement
is done by the state and the City has the nuisance ordinance as well. As far as odors, there
are standards that are in the City Code.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the guide plan identifies the characteristics of
different kinds of streets using the amount of traffic it expects, and functions it serves. A
residential street you would expect to have a driveway at every lot and not expect to move
a lot of traffic and relatively slowly versus a major collector, which is expected to carry a
higher volume of traffic. Chairman Stulberg asked how long Medina Road has been
classified as a major collector. Director Hurlburt replied since the 1970s.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #33
Director Hurlburt commented that the City is actively working with the owner of the
Plymouth Ponds industrial park to make sure that they do follow through with all the
requirements and construction going on. The City does follow up on all nuisance
complaints, and the residents are being kept informed. The City will take enforcement
action when necessary.
Commissioner Stoebner asked for clarification on the portion that staff is recommending
for reguiding. Planning Supervisor Senness pointed out the portion on the site plan that
was submitted by Mr. Hagen. Director Hurlburt stated 200 feet northward along Medina
Road all the way to Dunkirk Lane.
Commissioner Stoebner stated that the staff report alludes to the fact that if the guiding is
sustained with the PUD designation, it gives the City more control of the specific site
development. He asked how much control that would be. Planning Supervisor Senness
explained that any changes of the PUD become a rezoning, and aspects of the
development would come under the Commission's perusal, which would require a public
hearing and a super majority vote of the City Council. Director Hurlburt stated that a
PUD is a contractual agreement.
Commissioner Stoebner asked if and when Mr. Hagen's plan is presented, what criteria
would be used to evaluate that plan. Director Hurlburt replied that at this point it is zoned
PUD and the uses that are allowed under the current zoning are the uses that were
established with the old PUD. What they are requesting is to amend that PUD and change
the list of uses that are allowed.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked what types of businesses are being proposed within the
200 foot buffer. Planning Supervisor Senness replied that an office/mortuary, day care
and an auto service, of which two of those three uses would be conditional uses in the
office/residential zoning.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked what the two alternatives were that were looked at in the
traffic study. Planning Supervisor Senness replied that in both the alternatives they looked
at the office/mortuary and day care. In the commercial alternative, instead of the auto
service at the corner, they looked at a gas/convenience. Those uses were common to both
alternatives. What staff used for a commercial guiding was a total build out of the site.
Mr. Hagen's proposal does have less square footage and traffic overall.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that two alternatives were done for reguiding the
parcel for office commercial, one looked at primarily a multi -family housing option and
the other an office option. Both options had convenience uses along Medina Road.
Commissioner Ribbe asked if the Commission has the authority to make a
recommendation to the Council on this item. Director Hurlburt stated that it will be
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #34
discussed with the City Attorney, but at this point, the Commission can make its
recommendation.
MOTION by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe to recommend
approval of reguiding from Commercial to Commercial Office for property located
northeast of the intersection of County Road 24 and Medina Road.
Commissioner Thompson stated that we are only talking about guiding not zoning. He
stated that normally we do not look at the equities of the situation, but it has been brought
up by the developer, so we should take a look at it. The use that Mr. Robbins wants is
available under either option. Planning Supervisor stated that the service use that Mr.
Robbins wants would not be allowed either conditionally or otherwise under the
commercial office alternative. Director Hurlburt stated that staff's recommendation does
not include a rezoning of the property, but it could be done at this meeting. Commissioner
Thompson stated that his biggest concern is the traffic issues. The most important issue as
far as planning is the transition. The commercial office is the better use next to the
surrounding properties. The reguiding does not create a financial burden to the land
owner.
Commissioner Ribbe stated that the Commission has to consider what exists now, not
what was promised or what was done by the previous bodies. Commissioner Ribbe
concurred with Commissioner Thompson's remarks and the statements made by the
residents.
Commissioner Berkowitz stated that he supports the motion. The buffer would put the
residents and developer in a no-win situation. The 200 foot transition in itself would not
adequately serve the residents, as the same traffic will go through the area.
Chairman Stulberg stated he does not support the motion. He stated that as much as we
owe to the residents, we owe it to all property owners to leave the guiding alone. The
City can still control what goes on the site through the PUD process. If we left it as
commercial, it would still come back to the Commission with a different proposal.
Commissioner Thompson stated with the reguding process, the Commission has more
discretion.
Roll Call Vote. 4 Ayes. MOTION carried on a 4-1 Vote. (Commissioner Koehnen
abstained.)
Director Hurlburt stated that the current zoning is inconsistent with the guiding that was
just approved. She stated that the Commission can act on the rezoning, but it is not
mandatory at this time.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #35
MOTION by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Berkowitz
recommending that no action be taken on the rezoning.
Commissioner Berkowitz stated his reason is that they have not had a staff analysis done
yet. Director Hurlburt stated that there is more than one zoning that is compatible with
the commercial office guiding.
Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried on a unanimous vote.
Chairman Stulberg called a recess at 10:00 p.m. and reconvened the meeting at 10:10 p.m.
B. H.I. ENTERPRISES, INC. (96189)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by H.I. Enterprises, Inc. for a Site Plan,
Conditional Use Permits, and Variance for a Gas/Convenience Store for property located
at the southwest corner of Cheshire Lane and Carlson Parkway.
Planner Drill gave an overview of the February 6, 1997, staff report.
Acting Chairman Ribbe introduced Bev Kottas of 2995 Harbor Lane, the petitioner. Ms.
Kottas stated that they developed and own the Holiday store at Harbor Lane and
Fernbrook Lane. They have tried to continuously meet the needs of the residents. The
idea of fast-food within the convenience store is not new, it is just labeling what they have
always done. Ms. Kottas stated that she concurs with the staff report.
Acting Chairman Ribbe opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present
to speak on the issue.
MOTION by Commissioner Stoebner, seconded by Commissioner Thompson
recommending approval of a Site Plan, Conditional Use Permit and Variance for H.I.
Enterprises, Inc. for property located at the southwest corner of Cheshire Lane and
Carlson Parkway.
Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION carried on a unanimous vote. (Chairman Stulberg
abstained.)
C. CHRIST MEMORIAL LUTHERAN CHURCH (97001)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Christ Memorial Lutheran Church for a
Conditional Use Permit renewal for the temporary daycare structure for property located
at 13501 Sunset Trail.
Planner Lindahl gave an overview of the February 5, 1997 staff report.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #36
Chairman Stulberg introduced Fred Lee of 1105 Vagabond Lane, the petitioner. Mr. Lee
stated that he concurs with the staff report.
Chairman Stulberg opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to
speak on the issue.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Berkowitz recommending
approval of a Conditional Use Permit renewal for a temporary daycare center at Christ
Memorial Lutheran Church for property located at 13501 Sunset Trail.
Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried on a unanimous vote.
7. OLD BUSINESS
B. CITY OF PLYMOUTH (96188)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by the City of Plymouth to consider a Land Use
Guide Plan Amendment to reguide the property located in the northwest quadrant of
Highway 55 and Dunkirk Lane from C (Commercial) and LA -1 (Living Area 1) to LA -2
Living Area 2).
Planner Drill gave an overview of the February 6, 1997 staff report.
Commissioner Thompson asked if single family homes were built under LA -2 if it would
meet or exceed the Livable Communities Act. Planner Drill replied affirmatively. The
single family goal is two units per acre, multi -family is 10 units per acre. Commissioner
Thompson stated that LA -2 guiding would allow three to six units.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked if Commissioner Ribbe could make the motion to
reconsider LA -2 guiding (Option A) since he was not in attendance at the last meeting.
Planner Drill stated it would have to be someone that voted nay.
MOTION by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Thompson to reconsider the
reguiding of the site to LA -2. Chairman Stulberg stated his reason for the motion is so
that all options can be put on the table. Commissioner Thompson stated that the integrity
of the process demands it. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried on a unanimous vote.
MOTION by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner to reopen the
public hearing. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried on a unanimous vote.
Chairman Stulberg commented on a letter received and responded to by Director
Hurlburt, stating that the Planning Commissioner was the petitioner and initiated the
reguiding request. Chairman Stulberg stated that as the chairman, he believes that all the
input should be considered. Chairman Stulberg stated, as noted in the minutes, he would
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #37
not support the previous motion for approval of reguiding, as he wanted to see more
information that was brought forward in order to make a more informed decision.
Chairman Stulberg stated that the Commission voted unanimously to collect more
information.
Chairman Stulberg introduced John Bergh of 7300 Hemlock Lane. Mr. Bergh stated that
he represents Craig Scherber and wanted to express his concern regarding LA -2 or LA -3.
Mr. Scherber was concerned with the potential impact of the LA -2 or LA -3 guiding would
have on the property that he is developing as LA -1. Mr. Bergh stated that Mr. Scherber's
preference is Option A for the site.
Chairman Stulberg introduced John Byers of 3895 Comstock Lane North. Mr. Byers
stated his concern about receiving information on the property. He stated that he did not
receive a letter about this meeting. He stated that what is being considered as options is
not what was sent to them in previous notices. He suggested that the item not be
discussed since notices were not sent. Mr. Berg stated that the original proposal for LA -3
was for 159 units, and the proposal now for Option 3 is for 149 units, which is
approximately one building. His concern is the density and does not believe the issue has
been addressed.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Alan Napier of 16520 39th Avenue North. Mr. Napier
commented that pictures he took were examples of the densities that are being discussed.
He stated that the proposed structures are eight unit dwellings, and his pictures depict
what it would look like with an eight unit dwelling next to an LA -1 guided property. Mr.
Napier stated that he talked with other developers in the area regarding the property. He
commented that the property if guided LA -2 would sell for about $70,000 per acre, which
means Mr. Theis would suffer to gain about 1.4 million dollars. Mr. Napier stated that the
residents are the potential losers because of inappropriately guided land next to their
homes and the affect of their property values. Mr. Napier stated that based on the 150-
160 units at $100,000, the sales would be 16 million and Town and Country would walk
away with a ten percent profit of 1.6 million dollars. Mr. Napier stated that Option C is
not a new option but is just a repackaging of a previous effort by the developer. Mr.
Napier wanted to know why the developer is switching from wanting a parcel based
guiding and now proposing a split guiding. Mr. Napier stated that the residents should not
have to pump the city for information regarding the site, as the residents should have input
as to decisions regarding the property.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Steve Fontaine of 10835
46th Place North. Mr. Fontaine
stated that he is looking to move to Holly Creek and is the final stages of that process. He
appealed to the Planning Commission to approve the LA -2 guiding for the site. He
commented that an LA -3 guiding can negatively affect property values. He stated that
LA -2 guiding is a smoother transition for surrounding properties. He cited the
development between Heritage Ridge and Cottonwood Plaza as a good transition. Mr.
Fontaine stated that there is a shortage of homes available in the upper bracket sales price.
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February 11, 1997
Page #38
Mr. Fontaine stated that he is not opposed to affordable housing, but the site in question is
not appropriate. He stated that he is seriously considering putting their building plans on
hold pending the outcome of the guiding decision.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mike Gair of 15050 23rd Avenue North. Mr. Gair stated
that he represents Town and County Homes and Jerry Theis. He stated that Mr. Theis
sent a letter indicating his support for the blended land use proposal. Mr. Gair presented
an aerial photo of the site and surrounding properties. Mr. Gair stated that he visited the
Dundee Nursery site and the Tri-State Drilling site to get a better idea of their uses. He
stated that there are currently 14 rigs on the Tri-State Drilling site and at some point their
uses may change, but right now it is a reality. He stated that buffering was required for
Holly Creek in consideration of the proposed commercial Dundee property. He stated
that the City's Comprehensive Plan indicates that Dunkirk Lane is an appropriate
transition for lesser intense uses. Dunkirk is a transition from the Westbranch homes. Mr.
Gair stated that it is apparent that a blended guiding would be the best solution to provide
sufficient buffering and transition to the surrounding properties. Mr. Gair stated that the
southwest corner of the site should be LA -3, as it is a rational approach since it is in close
proximity to the Dundee Nursery site and Tri-State Drilling. Mr. Gair presented
illustration maps of the blended guiding and how it would fit into the area and affect the
surrounding properties. Mr. Gair stated that the blended use would mean less homes for
the property. He stated that Town and Country could make the proposal work with 120
higher priced units that have two stall garages under the blended guiding.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jim Blake of 3885 Comstock Lane North. Mr. Blake
stated that a request for LA -3 is not appropriate for the site due to increased traffic and
noise and a negative affect on property values. Mr. Blake supports an LA -2 guiding as
did city staff in a previous staff report. Mr. Blake stated that Town and Country can make
their project work with an LA -2 guiding.
Chairman Stulberg introduced a letter dated February 5, 1997, from Stephanie
Brandmeyer of 3930 Black Oaks Lane requesting that the public hearing be reopened. In
her letter, Ms. Brandmeyer stated that a combination zoning does not solve the neighbor's
concern about increased traffic and inadequate transition.
Chairman Stulberg introduced a letter dated February 11, 1997, from Todd Sitkowski of
3955 Black Oaks Lane in support of LA -2 guiding for the property.
Chairman Stulberg introduced a letter dated February 11, 1997, from Randy Ridings of
16500 39th Avenue North supporting the LA -2 guiding.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jerry Massmann of 4085 Everest Lane. Mr. Massmann
stated that he supports the LA -2 guiding for the property.
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February 11, 1997
Page #39
Mr. Napier stated that Dunkirk Lane is three lanes wide (two lanes wide and a shoulder),
and is not a realistic transition between properties. Mr. Napier stated that Town and
Country Homes has stated that their project is viable down to 120 units. Mr. Napier
stated that with 20 acres and 120 units, it is LA -2. He proposed that the developer has
nothing to fear with an LA -2 guiding.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
Director Hurlburt stated that the city mails a notice when new applications are received
and are scheduled for a public hearing before the Planning Commission. She explained
that two notices were mailed, one for the LA -3 guiding submitted by Town and County,
and one for LA -2 guiding that was initiated by the Planning Commission. It is not a
requirement to mail additional notices when items get continued. The letter that Mr.
Beyers referred to is pertaining to a new application. The commission has held hearings
on LA -2 and LA -3 guiding, and is allowed to make a decision on a combination of the two
without holding another public hearing. Director Hurlburt stated that staff reports are
available to everyone at the same time at City Hall. Director Hurlburt stated the LA -3
application would allow a maximum of 200 over units. Regardless of the application, staff
has to think about the maximum allowed, as a developer could change. The difference
between LA -2 and LA -3 is much greater, based strictly on guiding.
Chairman Stulberg stated that the reference Planner Drill made to Mr. Napier's pictures in
his staff report were based on the comments at the previous meeting pertaining to zoning.
Chairman Stulberg stated that Mr. Napier referred to the pictures correctly at this meeting
pertaining to guiding.
Chairman Stulberg stated that Mr. Theis probably had some basis in his property which
affects his financial status.
In response to Mr. Fontaine's comments, Chairman Stulberg stated that any value of home
could be placed in any of the various guiding designations.
Chairman Stulberg noted that staff has said LA -2, LA -3 or a combination could be
appropriate guiding.
Commissioner Koehnen asked for comments/explanation pertaining to different types of
housing. Director Hurlburt stated that LA -1 is not a type of housing. There is quite a
variety of price, size and type of housing in an LA -1 area. Some of the most affordable
single family homes and some of the most expensive homes are in LA -1. Densities can be
higher and attached homes are higher density and are sometimes able to be made more
affordable. The higher densities make more affordable housing and make attached
housing possible.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #40
Commissioner Thompson asked if the off -set boundary of Option 3 concerns staff.
Director Hurlburt replied affirmatively and the dimensions would have to be better
defined. She added that staff prefers that guidings be parcel based, but a split guiding can
be handled.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Berkowitz recommending
approval of a Land Use Guide Plan Amendment for property located in the northwest
quadrant of Highway 55 and Dunkirk Lane to LA -2 (Option A).
Commissioner Thompson stated that he is concerned with a split guiding and tends to
think LA -2 is the best alternative. If a site plan had been submitted with a 120 houses, it
would have been easier to decide.
Commissioner Ribbe stated to keep in mind that the heavy equipment at Tri-State drilling
is not operative on the site, as it is moved out during their normal operational months. It
is basically an office and minor repair site. Chairman Stulberg noted that there is some
equipment on site that has not moved for many years. Commissioner Berkowitz stated
that the site is readily visible and should not be a surprise for anyone contemplating
purchasing a home near the site. Commissioner Berkowitz stated that with Option C
access would have to go through the LA -2 and perhaps the LA -1 guided area through
Holly Creek and would not be a palatable situation if it were to progress to that point.
Commissioner Thompson stated that he is not as concerned with the LA -2 guided
property to the east side as much as the LA -1 guiding property to the north and the
Livable Communities Act. He stated he is inclined to move to table the item and the next
item to allow a site plan to be submitted. Chairman Stulberg suggested that if that is done,
we deal with one item at a time, as there is a time limit on each application.
Commissioner Koehnen asked if Option C meets the Livable Communities Act.
Commissioner Thompson replied negatively.
Commissioner Koehnen stated that Option C seems like a compromise but is not
convinced that it is the best solution.
Chairman Stulberg stated he would like to see the property stay the way it is until
someone comes forth with a proposal that means something. He would side with
Commissioner Thompson to table the item. He stated that the Commission should deal
with it as it comes forward.
Commissioner Thompson stated he finds that leaving the property as -is the least palatable,
as he does not want to see a proposal for commercial and a lot of time and effort has been
put into it so far. He stated that he is leaning toward Option A and if Town and County
comes up with a plan asking for a guide plan amendment and site plan, the guiding can be
changed. Chairman Stulberg noted that the property is commercial now. Commissioner
Thompson stated that is why the Commission should act on it now. Commissioner
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February 11, 1997
Page #41
Berkowitz concurred stating that the residents have been put through enough already. He
stated he would like to see closure on this.
Commissioner Stoebner concurred with Chairman Stulberg stating that until we see a plan
in front of the Commission there is no need to reguide the property at this time.
Commissioner Thompson stated that it is zoned commercial and we could see warehouses
tomorrow and that it should be acted on now.
Commissioner Koehnen stated that reguiding the property to LA -2 would not impede
other possibilities.
Roll Call Vote. 4 Ayes. MOTION carried on a 4-2 vote. (Commissioner Stoebner and
Chairman Stulberg voted nay.)
A. TOWN AND COUNTY HOMES, INC. (96161)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Town and County Homes, Inc. for a Land
Use Guide Plan Amendment from C (Commercial) and LA -1 (Living Area 1) to LA -3
Living Area 3) and Sketch Plan for a 159 -unit townhome community located in the
northwest quadrant of Highway 55 and Dunkirk Lane.
Planner Dill stated that in light of the previous action recommending reguiding of the site
to LA -2, it would be appropriate for the Commission to recommend denial Town and
Country's request.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mike Gair, representing the petitioner. Mr. Gair stated that
the applicant wishes to withdraw their application.
Chairman Stulberg introduced John Bergh of Loucks and Associates. Mr. Bergh declined
to comment.
Director Hurlburt stated that since the application was withdrawn, the Commission does
not need to take any action.
8. NEW BUSINESS
A. APPOINTMENT OF LIAISON TO THE PARK AND RECREATION
ADVISORY COMMISSION.
It was decided that Commissioner Ribbe would take the first three months, and Chairman
Stulberg the next three months. Staff is to bring the item back to the Commission at a
later date for future appointments.
Planning Commission Minutes
February 11, 1997
Page #42
Director Hurlburt noted that the Work Plan will come before the Commission at the next
meeting.
Chairman Stulberg commended the Commission for their actions on a tough meeting.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Berkowitz. The
meeting was adjourned at 11:50 p.m.