HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 10-22-1996CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
OCTOBER 22, 1996
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Allen Ribbe, John
Stoebner, Tim Bildsoe, Jeffrey Thompson, Saundra Spigner
arrived at 7:45 p.m.), and Roger Berkowitz
MEMBERS ABSENT:
STAFF PRESENT:
1. CALL TO ORDER:
2. PUBLIC FORUM:
Community Development Anne
Supervisor Barbara Senness, Planner
Engineer Dan Faulkner, and Clerical
Hutt
7:00 p.m.
Hurlburt, Planning
Shawn Drill, City
Supervisor Denise
Chairman Stulberg introduced Bradly & Rebecca Caron of 3615 Trenton Lane North.
Mr. Caron presented a letter dated October 22, 1996, to the Commission requesting an
exception to the Zoning Ordinance pertaining to the two dog limitation. Mr. Caron stated
they own two dogs and are currently providing care and training for a puppy of fourteen
weeks while a home is sought. They are requesting an exception be granted prior to the
ordinance age limit for this puppy. Mr. Caron asked what the timing would be if there
were to be a change to the ordinance.
Chairman Stulberg stated that they are currently working on a new Zoning Ordinance, and
that it may be appropriate for staff to look at an interim use permit.
Director Hurlburt stated that staff could look at amendments to the ordinance to be
included in the public hearing which will be held on November 12, 1996. She stated that
the new ordinance is not anticipated to be adopted until December, 1996.
Commissioner Ribbe stated that it would be worthwhile to look at this to see if a change is
workable. Commissioner Thompson concurred. Director Hurlburt stated that staff will
investigate the possibility of writing an interim use permit to allow staff to administratively
approve a request such as this. Director Hurlburt suggested that Mr. Caron keep in touch
with staff in the next couple of weeks to check on the progress of this issue.
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #247
MOTION by Commissioner Bildsoe, seconded by Commissioner Thompson to
recommend approval of the October 8, 1996 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 6
Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
5. CONSENT AGENDA:
Commissioner Bildsoe requested that Item 5A. be removed from the Consent Agenda.
Commissioner Thompson concurred.
B. OLYMPIC STEEL, INC. (96142)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Olympic Steel, Inc. for a Site Plan
Amendment for 25 additional parking spaces to be located on the west side of the building
at 625 Xenium Lane North.
MOTION by Commissioner Bildsoe, seconded by Commissioner Thompson to approve
the request by Olympic Steel, Inc. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
A. CITY OF PLYMOUTH.
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by the City of Plymouth to adopt a resolution
recommending continued City participation in the Metropolitan Livable Communities Act
Program.
Commissioner Bildsoe asked for an explanation of life -cycle housing. Commissioner
Thompson wanted to know what the City gets in return for expending $200,000. Director
Hurlburt explained that starting in 1998, participating cities must expend an amount to
support or assist the development or maintenance of affordable and life -cycle housing in
the community, that at a minimum, is equal to the community's Affordable and Life -Cycle
Housing Opportunities Amount (ALHOA). The ALHOA is annually calculated for each
community by the Metropolitan Council according to a formula in the Act. For 1996, the
City of Plymouth can be expected to expend through HRA activities $200,000 in ALHOA
eligible activities. According to the Metropolitan Council, the calculated ALHOA for the
City of Plymouth for 1997 will be $0.00. Director Hurlburt stated that it doesn't really
cost the City anything to participate. Some provisions of the adopted Action Plan don't
kick in until a year or two from now. She added that the City has been very careful not to
commit to anything we cannot do.
MOTION by Commissioner Bildsoe, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner recommending
the City of Plymouth's continued participation in the programs under the Metropolitan
Livable Communities Act for 1997. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #248
A. ROGER ANDERSON ENGINEERING, INC. (96038)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Roger Anderson Engineering, Inc. for a
Preliminary Plat to create four single family detached lots for one existing home and three
new homes, and Rezoning from FRD (Future Restricted Development District) to R -IA
Low Density Single Family Residential District) for property located at 1220 Ferndale
Road. This item was continued from the October 8, 1996 meeting.
Planner Drill gave an overview of the October 16, 1996 staff report. Planner Drill
presented a revised resolution, adding a new Condition #13 that requires the applicant to
demonstrate on-site storm water detention ponding sufficient to maintain runoff rates at
predevelopment conditions. Also, a new Condition #14 was added to address the low
spot adjacent to Ferndale Road. If that area is found to be a wetland, the applicant must
obtain any required permit prior to the City's approval of a Final Plat. Planner Drill also
presented a letter dated October 18, 1996 from the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District
and a memo dated October 22, 1996 from Shane Missaghi, Water Resources Engineer for
the City of Plymouth.
Commissioner Ribbe asked when the soil borings took place that was referenced as item
4 in the letter received from the Minnehaha Creek Watershed District.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Roger Anderson, the petitioner. In response to
Commissioner Ribbe's question, Mr. Anderson stated that the soil borings took place on
March 28, 1996. The soil was frozen to a one and one-half foot depth, and perched water
impacted the soil borings. Mr. Anderson stated that the key goal is to eliminate the
perched water.
Mr. Anderson stated that he concurs with the staff report and the proposal meets the
Zoning Ordinance requirements. They are not requesting any variances, and the lots
exceed the square footage standard for the R -IA District. Mr. Anderson assured that
drainage issues will be addressed. They are proposing to put in a pond, even though it is
not mandated. The pond should accommodate the runoff from two-thirds of the site;
control the rate of discharge; and, direct water to comply with the City's Comprehensive
Storm Drainage Plan. The pond is to be located where there won't be a need to take
down any further trees on the site. Mr. Anderson stated that he reviewed the report by the
consultant. The consultant did not find characteristics of wetlands pertaining to hydrology
or plants.
Director Hurlburt asked what would happen with the driveway on Lot 1 when they put the
pond in. Mr. Anderson replied that the driveway will be relocated to accommodate the
pond.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #249
City Engineer Faulkner stated that the City is aware of the storm drainage that has caused
a severe erosion problem with the
12th Avenue project and it will be addressed. City
Engineer Faulkner stated that the water will drain to the proposed pond and be detained
because there is no easement on the adjacent property. One of the requirements of
approval is that the proposal can't increase the water drainage. The water will be detained
and then follow the property line down to Hadley Lake. It is then the City's responsibility
to make sure the water drains.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that there is a small depression indicated along the west side
of the site which might have some wetland characteristics. After reviewing the available
information and a brief site investigation, it was somewhat inconclusive as to the status of
this small portion of property.
Chairman Stulberg continued the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jonathan Faraci, of Development Engineering, representing
the neighbors. Mr. Faraci stated that the proposal did not meet the requirements for
rezoning under the intent for FRD because the public facilities and services are not in
place. He stated that the structure is not in place leading to Hadley Lake. Mr. Faraci
agreed that the pond is a good idea, but it does not restrict the runoff, it only slows it up.
Mr. Faraci presented a 1989 aerial map of the neighborhood depicting an existing weir
where ground water fluctuates greatly and runs down to Hadley Lake. He was concerned
that the proposed plat would aggravate an already serious erosion problem. Mr. Faraci
commented that the road on the Orono side was built over what could have been a
wetland, which was not properly located or analyzed. Mr. Faraci stated that the proposed
lots are large enough that the house pads could be located elsewhere. Mr. Faraci stated
they would like to see more information pertaining to the impact of the tree count after the
driveway is moved on Lot 1, and if the area on the northwest corner of the site is
determined to be a wetland.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Gloria Lindberg of 1200 Ferndale Road North. Ms.
Lindberg presented a letter dated October 22, 1996 from James and Candace Fish of
19005 -12th Avenue North. They stated in their letter the concern for the aggravation of
what is already a potential water problem. They believe that some substantial portion of
the western -most home site is at least partially in wetlands. Without benefit of engineering
data, they are concerned with the added drainage load on the remaining land which will be
created by three new homes. They are also concerned about the larger drainage problems
along Ferndale north to County Road 6, and east of the relatively recently filled-in wetland
just north of the 1220 Ferndale property.
Ms. Lindberg thanked the Commission for giving the residents of 12th Avenue North an
extended time to allow them to investigate the potential impact on the community. She
stated that their goal is to be supportive in assuring that new development does not
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #250
adversely affect their neighborhood, the water tables, the wetlands, and the watershed area
into which excess water may flow as a result of the impending development. Ms.
Lindberg concurred with Mr. & Mrs. Fish's concerns regarding increased runoff and
drainage issues, and the affect that three new homes will have.
Ms. Lindberg asked several questions pertaining to drainage and runoff from the homes.
Ms. Lindberg wanted answers to the following questions: Will the necessary soil testing
be done to preclude any adverse effect on the subterranean water? Has Orono been
apprised of, or approved of, the option to put a culvert under Ferndale and drain the water
there for Orono's disposal? If the water is diverted through a large diameter pipe to the
existing wetland, how much water will the pond be able to absorb before it reaches
capacity and overflows down the existing swale to Hadley Lake? Who would be
responsible for any water treatment, or holding area, that might be necessary for the water
to be dumped into Hadley Lake? What affect will the increased taffic from the
development have on an already congested and hazardous north end of Ferndale Road?
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
In response to questions raised, City Engineer Faulkner stated that there is a 21 inch pipe
that goes to Hadley Lake. He stated that all of the development has occurred already
surrounding the area. In response to swale and calcualted runoff issues, City Engineer
Faulkner said there are two different swales. One is located off the 12th Avenue cul-de-sac
where there is a pipe. There is currently an erosion problem, but there should be no
additional runoff from the proposed development into that system. The side yards will
drain towards 12th Avenue. Additional volume will be detained in the pond, and then
drained through a designed weir system. City Engineer Faulkner stated that the applicant
has shown everything they are required to at the preliminary Plat stage. City Engineer
Faulkner concurred that there is a pre-existing drainage problem, and the developer is
taking the initiative to take care of it, which should be the City's responsibility. The
delineation for the wetland adjacent to Ferndale Road was conducted during the winter
months, which requires a spring follow-up. The follow-up did not occur, and will have to
be done. If it turns out to be classified as a wetland, the applicant will have to go through
a permitting process, which may or may not mean the loss of one lot.
Pertaining to other questions/issues, City Engineer Faulkner stated that necessary soil tests
are not required by the City unless they are going to build a street. The soil boring #2
indicated that the house pad would have to be excavated. In response to traffic, the
additional trips generated by the new homes would not have any significant impact, as
Ferndale Road could handle the small increase especially after Ferndale is upgraded. The
purpose of the on-site pond would be to detain water so runoff does not increase, and to
treat the water before it goes into the pipe. The Minnehaha Watershed District does not
require anything additional for water treatment before it enters Hadley Lake. The cost of
the drainage swale would be the City's responsibility. The DNR is not aware of the
proposed use, but the applicant would have to obtain their approval before moving
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #251
forward with the project. The City of Orono was not contacted about the pipe, but it is
mute since it won't go that direction. City Engineer Faulkner said that the pond would
have to be designed to standards. The pond would have to be at least four feet deep if
needed for water quality.
Mr. Anderson stated that he will get approval from the DNR. If the proposed plan is
approved, he will be contacting several agencies, including the Minnehaha Watershed
District. The water quality portion of the pond would be three to four feet deep for water
treatment. Mr. Anderson said they don't know if they need the water quality portion
because of the size of the development, but they will comply with the requirements
dictated by the watershed district. If the pond is to be a detention pond, it needs to be at
least three feet in depth. If the pond is to be a water quality pond also, it would be six to
seven feet in depth. The upper four feet of water is to be detained and then run out. If the
pond is strictly a detention pond, they would not want to put a fence around it. It would
have a 3:1 slope like the side yard of a home.
Pertaining to runoff, Mr. Anderson stated that the calculation of pre -development runoff is
three cubic feet per second, and post -development runoff is 4.5 cubic feet per second for a
12 -inch culvert. The pond would slow the runoff down significantly. Mr. Anderson said
that there are existing drainage problems and they have the opportunity to correct them.
He said that the development will benefit the ground water situation. Chairman Stulberg
asked if the pond is for detention only, how many cubic feet of water would there be. Mr.
Anderson calculated about 4700 cubic feet.
MOTION by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Thompson to recommend
approval of the Ordinance amending the Zoning Ordinance to classify certain land located
at the northeast corner of
12th Avenue and Ferndale Road. Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes.
MOTION approved on a 6-1 Vote. (Commissioner Spigner voted Nay.)
MOTION by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Thompson recommending
approval of a Preliminary Plat for Henry Lazniarz for Ferndale Place located at the
northeast corner of
12th Avenue and Ferndale Road.
Commissioner Bildsoe asked if there would be any duplication of efforts since Ferndale
Road is scheduled for upgrading in 1998. City Engineer Faulkner replied that there may
be some duplicating for the control of storm drainage, but there is certainly no problem
with this proposal.
Commissioner Spigner stated her belief that some property needs to remain as larger lots
and rural areas.
Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried on a 6-1 Vote. (Commissioner Spigner voted
Nay.)
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #252
B. JANCO, INC. (96113)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Janco, Inc. for a Planned Unit Development
Concept Plan, Preliminary Plan/Plat, Conditional Use Permit, Land Use Guide Plan
Amendment from LAR (Living Area Rural) to LA -3 (Medium Density Residential), and
Rezoning from FRD (Future Restricted Development) to R-3 (Medium Density
Residential) for 74 single family dwelling lots for property located at 4860 Peony Lane
North.
Chairman Stulberg noted a mistake on the agenda. The agenda indicates the Land Use
Guide Plan Amendment from LAR to LA -4, and should be LA -3. Also, the Rezoning
from FRD to R-4, should be R-3.
Planning Supervisor Senness gave an overview of the October 18, 1996 staff report.
Chairman Stulberg asked what happens if the application is approved and the new Zoning
Ordinance does not go through. Planning Supervisor Senness replied that the application
would have to come back for approval again. Director Hurlburt stated that if there is only
a minor change to the new ordinance, it would not have to come back for approval.
City Engineer Faulkner gave an overview of the history of Schmidt Lake Road stating that
about three to four years ago a need existed to better define where the road would be.
During consideration of the Soo Line East project, the City Council wanted an alignment
study done, which was conducted in May 1993 for the area west of Vicksburg Lane. An
EAW was prepared, and it was determined that the best alignment for the road would be
north of the railroad tracks. As development occurred, such as Nanterre, the road was
constructed. Now a portion of Schmidt Lake Road is being constructed through
development coming in from the west, east of Pineview Lane with left and right turn lanes.
The only portion left of Schmidt Lake Road to be determined for alignment is east of the
proposed Conor Meadows to the bridge crossing. The City Council has directed a
detailed study of the alignment. City Engineer Faulkner stated that they don't have a
definite answer yet as to what will happen to Holly Lane when Schmidt Lake Road is
extended. They are thinking that Holly Lane would be an "at grade" and T -intersection
with Schmidt Lake Road. Director Hurlburt asked what would happen to the people to
the north. City Engineer Faulkner replied that they would continue to have their access on
to Holly Lane. Holly Lane would have to tie into Schmidt Lake Road to continue to
provide access, and it would be constructed as a major collector road. Director Hurlburt
asked what would have to happen to connect Holly Lane to the railroad tracks outside the
urban service area. City Engineer Faulkner stated that it would have to be development
driven, and it would be the City Council's decision for timing. The issue will need to be
addressed during the Capital Improvement Program discussions next month.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that staff received a revision today reducing the
number of single family lots to 70. The 50 -foot setback to the railroad right-of-way is not
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #253
required under the existing Zoning Ordinance, but will be under the new ordinance. As of
today, the applicant is requesting a 20 -foot setback for lots abutting Peony Lane. Their
revised plan removed the request for a variance on two lots. Staff would support the
minor changes so that could occur. Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the variance
for Lot 12, Block 1 could be eliminated through the construction of a shallower home, or
by adjusting the front yard setback as is proposed for the adjacent lots to the east. There
is now room for lots along Peony Lane to have a 25 -foot front yard setback.
Chairman Stulberg asked if the only the variance in question would be the front yard
setback for Lots 12-30. Planning Supervisor Senness replied affirmatively. Chairman
Stulberg asked if they need a variance for the other 50 -foot setbacks. Planning Supervisor
Senness replied that subsequent plans indicate that it can be corrected. Commissioner
Bildsoe asked if the outlot was removed. Planning Supervisor Senness replied that there is
an outlot for a development sign. Outlots along the border would be extended for the
next development.
Commissioner Berkowitz stated his concern with the extension of 48th
and
49th Avenues
east, and asked if they will be routed as cul-de-sacs or dead ends. Planning Supervisor
Senness pointed out the plans for 48th
and
49th Avenue on the plans. Commissioner
Berkowitz asked if staff has looked at the plans pertaining to cul-de-sac length. Planning
Supervisor Senness replied that it would meet standards, but staff has not taken a detailed
look, as the plans for Conor Meadows Two are not yet complete.
Commissioner Thompson asked if there is any intention of having agricultural land in
Plymouth. He commented that it would be nice to have open land somewhere in the City.
Planning Supervisor Senness explained that once land is inside the urban service area, it is
just a matter of time before it is rezoned and developed. Planning Supervisor Senness
stated that the City's plan is for an urban area, which provides for a variety of densities in
that area. Commissioner Thompson asked if any areas would be rural. Planning
Supervisor Senness replied negatively. Director Hurlburt stated property owners are
assessed for the services. The time to designate rural land was before the MUSA line was
drawn. Commissioner Thompson asked if the Metropolitan Livable Communities Act
played a part in staffs' recommendation for approval of this proposal. Planning Supervisor
Senness answered that it was one aspect, but not the driving force of the recommendation.
Director Hurlburt stated that since the City decided to participate in the Metropolitan
Livable Communities Act, a Housing Plan was adopted, and this proposal does meet some
of the goals. As population ages, we need to allow for choice and diversity. Planning
Supervisor Senness stated that at this point, all reports that are brought forward to the
Commission will include a comment on how it fits with the Metropolitan Livable
Communities Act and the Housing Plan.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked where are the neighborhood shopping and commercial
areas that were referenced in the staff report. Planning Supervisor Senness replied that
given the access, they are close to commercial guiding. Director Hurlburt noted that there
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #254
is an area south of Rockford Road, north of Highway 55, and the west side of Peony Lane
that has been changed to commercial. There is the existing Tom Thumb, and the site
approved at Rottlund for a convenience center. She added that once the high school
opens, there will be more interest for convenience and shopping centers.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked if there were any other developments in the last few years
where there is this type of density or lot size. Planning Supervisor Senness replied that
there are smaller lot sizes in Parkers Lake (zipper lots). Director Hurlburt noted that the
Rottlund development has a variety of home styles with an overall density that is higher.
Commissioner Berkowitz stated that his concern is with a smaller variety of homes and the
market trend. He didn't want the Commission to be put in the position of hearing
Variance requests by people that want to try and put a larger house on the lot. Planning
Supervisor Senness replied that there is a market for smaller homes on smaller lots.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Tom Graham, the applicant who introduced Greg Frank, of
McCombs, Frank, Roos Associates, representing the petitioner.
Mr. Frank stated that the timing is right for the project. The original proposal was for
LA -3 use, but the applicant supports the recommendation by staff. The transitional -type
housing lends itself well for the area. The housing style is developed by Graham Company
and the houses will be built by Centex. The homes will be similar to those built by Centex
located west of Zachary Lane and south of the railroad. Potential variances will be curbed
by having one builder for the development. The project density is 3.4 units per acre and
ties into the Metropolitan Livable Communities Act.
Mr. Frank described the proposed landscaping for the site stating that they will place six-
foot high fencing with masonry columns along the south side of the site. Along the inside
of the fencing there will be ten foot high evergreens, and overstory trees 30 feet on center.
There will be a two foot high berm along most of the length of the fence. There will be
spruce trees along Schmidt Lake Road. Mr. Frank stated that there are 85 trees on site,
and 40% of the significant trees are not desirable (Elms, Box Elders, Poplars). Mr. Frank
stated that roughly 25% of the trees are located where Schmidt Lake Road will extend.
The reforestation/landscape plan submitted shows 1,124 caliper inches to be replaced on
the site.
Mr. Frank stated that the applicant didn't realize a 50 -foot setback was required along
Peony Lane until they read the staff report. They decided to shift Olive Lane 20 feet to
the east to accommodate this, but they would still need the front yard setback reduced
from 25 feet to 20 feet.
Mr. Frank indicated that N URP ponding and all mitigation will be provided on the site.
One of the benefits of the project is that 100% of the right-of-way is being provided at no
cost to the City. This proposal also offers another alternative of housing, by providing a
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #255
more affordable type of living environment. By using one builder, it provides a sense of
community.
Chairman Stulberg asked if the applicant is still asking for a variance on Lots 5-11, which
differs from what staff is recommending in their approving resolution. Mr. Frank replied
affirmatively.
Commissioner Spigner stated that she didn't see any trails or parks proposed. Mr. Frank
replied that there is a trail along Schmidt Lake Road. All the architectural designs and
building types will be common to provide a sense of a community or neighborhood.
Commissioner Spigner commended the applicant on the proposed wall along the Soo Line
Railroad. She added that she would like to see some land set aside for a neighborhood
park. Mr. Frank responded that this development would be close to the high school site.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the high school site will have a wide variety of
playground facilities including a tot lot.
Chairman Stulberg asked what the proposed square footage is for the models. Mr. Frank
replied that there will be a building pad of 3,000 square feet. Mr. Graham replied that the
finished living space on two floors would be 1,800 to 2,400 square feet.
Commissioner Bildsoe asked what the applicant meant by 10% of the housing will be low
to moderate income housing. Mr. Graham replied that it is not a commitment, but part of
the original application. Director Hurlburt stated that in the original application, the
applicant intended the percentage to qualify for bonus points, which is a mute point under
the proposed Zoning Ordinance. Mr. Graham commented that the purchase price on the
homes would range from $160,000 to $180,000.
Commissioner Thompson asked if the revised application is now lower than five units per
acre. Mr. Frank replied that the density would now be 3.4 units per acre.
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Harry Wickman of 4935 Holly Lane. Mr. Wickman asked
where Schmidt Lake Road is proposed to be aligned. Mr. Wickman commented that he
was glad to see that the applicant is donating 100 feet of their property. He added that it
wouldn't hurt to move Schmidt Lake Road further south.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that this proposal does not deal with Schmidt Lake Road in
reference to Mr. Wickman's property. The alignment study should be conducted within
the next couple of months.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #256
MOTION by Commissioner Spigner, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe recommending
approval of a Land Use Guide Plan Amendment for Janco, Inc. for property located at
4860 Peony Lane North.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked for an explanation on the differences between LA -2 and
LA -3 guiding. Director Hurlburt replied that the current ordinance asks for a higher
density. LA -3 allows up to 12 units per acre and more attached housing. LA -2 allows
three to six units per acre.
Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
Director Hurlburt stated that the Commission approves this now, but it will be delayed
going to City Council until the new ordinance is adopted. Commissioner Spigner asked
why the Commission is asked to approve the application using the new ordinance.
Chairman Stulberg stated that the owner could request action under the current ordinance
which would be a Planned Unit Development, which would be too hard to mix in under
the new ordinance. Director Hurlburt stated that if the Commission chooses, they could
recommend the Land Use Guide Plan and delay the rest of the actions until after the new
Zoning Ordinance is approved. This would allow the developer to go ahead while the
ordinance is being completed. Mr. Graham stated that he made the application under the
current ordinance, but will concur with staff recommendation under the new ordinance.
He stated that he would like to move forward with the application.
Commissioner Spigner stated her concern for approving something before the ordinance is
approved.
Commissioner Thompson stated that the Commission is not really approving anything,
only recommending to the City Council. Director Hurlburt stated that the City is not in
any legal jeopardy. Commissioner Berkowitz stated that in the unlikely event that an
RMF -2 is not what the Commission envisions today, this proposal would be approved
under the new conditions. Director Hurlburt answered if there was a major change in the
ordinance, the application may have to come back for a new hearing. Commissioner
Thompson stated that if there is a minor change, the City Council can deal with it.
MOTION by Commissioner Spigner, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner
recommending approval of Rezoning from FRD to RMF -2 for Janco, Inc. for property
located at 4860 Peony Lane North.
Commissioner Thompson stated he was concerned with moving toward higher density.
By having more density, it's tougher to remain environmentally sensitive and a beautiful
place to live.
Commissioner Ribbe commented that the homes built by Centex are very attractive and
provide a sense of neighborhood. It also provides more affordable housing.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #257
Chairman Stulberg stated that the Metropolitan Livable Communities Act is not driving
this application. He added that Northwest Plymouth is the appropriate area now where
the community as a whole needs to decide whether to preserve rural land or executive
home sites.
Commissioner Bildsoe commented that density provides more affordable housing. He
stated that in developing little pieces along the way, we create a hodge podge. He was
concerned with this being so close to the northwest Plymouth area and how it would blend
into the future plans for that area.
Commissioner Berkowitz stated that it is appropriate zoning, but is troubled with it
because the new ordinance has not been approved yet.
Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried on a 6-1 Vote. (Commissioner Berkowitz
voted Nay.)
MOTION by Commissioner Spigner, seconded by Commissioner Bildsoe recommending
approval of a Preliminary Plan/Plat for Janco, Inc. for property located at 4860 Peony
Lane North.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Bildsoe
to add a condition requiring an amended Landscape Plan for overstory trees to be located
along the Soo Line Railroad at 35 foot spacing. Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION
approved unanimously.
Roll Call Vote on Main MOTION. 7 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
MOTION by Commissioner Spigner, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner
recommending approval of Zoning Ordinance Variances for Janco, Inc. for property
located at 4860 Peony Lane North.
Commissioner Berkowitz stated that he was concerned with the potential variance
requests down the road because of the smaller lot sizes. Planning Supervisor Senness
stated that with the revised plan, there is adequate room; therefore, no need for a variance.
Director Hurlburt stated there shouldn't be any problems with fitting a house on those
lots.
Commissioner Stoebner asked if staff is supporting the application because the City is
taking 20 feet on the other side. Planning Supervisor Senness replied that is one of the
reasons for support.
Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #258
Chairman Stulberg called a recess at 9:56 p.m., and reconvened the meeting at 10:11 p.m.
C. WESTURN CEDAR SUPPLY (96135)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Westurn Cedar Supply for a Planned Unit
Development and Conditional Use Permit to allow outside storage of roofing supplies for
property located at 705 Highway 169 North.
Planner Drill gave an overview of the October 15, 1996 staff report.
Commissioner Bildsoe asked what happens if the Commission does not approve the
applicant's request. He noted that it would seem appropriate to screen the western side of
the site, as it opens up to an open area and pond in the back of Waterford Plaza.
Commissioner Bildsoe stated that the proposed fence would just block off the view from
the parking ramp. Commissioner Bildsoe also asked if the materials have to be stored
below the fence line. Planner Drill replied that if the Commission does not approve the
Conditional Use Permit, the applicant would be required to clear out the area. Planner
Drill also stated that the vegetation along the west side of the site provides some
screening. Planner Drill added that the materials are to be stored below the fence line.
Commissioner Thompson asked if there is anything that prevents them from letting the
vegetation die. Planner Drill replied negatively.
Commissioner Spigner asked what the nature of the complaint was. She stated that the
applicant should be at the meeting to answer questions. Planner Drill explained that the
complaint was likely due to the appearance of the site and the materials that are stored
outside. Director Hurlburt suggested that if the Commission wanted to continue the item,
staff could take photos of the site for the next meeting. Commissioner Berkowitz asked
that if the Commission approved the fence, would the party that made the complaint be
satisfied.
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing.
MOTION by Commissioner Spigner, seconded by Commissioner Thompson to leave the
public hearing open and table the item to the next meeting and direct staff to provide
pictures of the site, and consider a fence along the west side of the building. Also, staff
should inform the applicant to be present at the next meeting on November 12, 1996.
Roll Call Vote. 5 ayes. MOTION carried on a 5-2 Vote. (Commissioner Ribbe and
Chairman Stulberg voted Nay.)
D. ELIM CARE, INC. (96137)
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #259
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Elim Care, Inc. for a Land Use Guide Plan
Amendment from IP (Planned Industrial) to LA -4 (High Density Residential), Rezoning
from FRD (Future Restricted Development) to R-4 (High Density Residential) for
approximately 74 acres and a Planned Unit Development Concept Plan for 348 senior
independent living for -sale units and three industrial buildings on roughly 92 acres located
at the northeast corner of County Road 101 and Medina Road.
Planning Supervisor Senness gave an overview of the October 18, 1996 staff report.
Commissioner Ribbe asked why staff is recommending an environmental review since the
proposal leaves the wetlands alone. He stated that he didn't think it was necessary since
an environmental review was not required on the adjacent Plymouth Ponds development.
Planning Supervisor Senness explained that this proposal goes over the threshold and the
formula requires an environmental review.
Commissioner Thompson asked if an environmental review would be required for just the
residential portion, or is it triggered because of three industrial buildings. Planning
Supervisor Senness replied an environmental review would not be required on just the
residential portion. Director Hurlburt stated the entire property has to be considered as a
whole since it is under one ownership. Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the
applicant does not intend to build the three industrial buildings yet, but as a whole, it
would require an environmental review. Commissioner Thompson asked if the City can
require an EAW since they are not going to build at this time, and asked why this is
different from the Plymouth Ponds development. Commissioner Thompson wanted to
know if this is a proposed project or just a concept plan. Director Hurlburt replied that it
is concept plan, but we know they own it and they could sell it to another developer in the
area. She stated that the City has enough information to do an EAW. If we segment and
chop off the industrial portion, we are guilty of what we accused others of doing.
Director Hurlburt continued that the residential portion alone is not that far off the
threshold for requiring an EAW. By combining the industrial and residential, it will benefit
everyone up front to look at it as a whole and the possible impact on the area.
Commissioner Thompson asked if the City Attorney did an analysis to consider this a
project. Director Hurlburt replied negatively, but staff doesn't foresee any interpretation
problems. She stated that the earlier you do an EAW in the process, the better it is to get
any potential issues out in the open.
Commissioner Spigner commented that the City can't do anything about previous projects
that were approved, so it's best to just move forward with the EAW.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked if Parcel B is excluded from the reguiding. Planning
Supervisor Senness replied affirmatively. Commissioner Berkowitz questioned what
impact this potential development would have on the Leuer property regarding loading
dock setbacks. Planning Supervisor Senness stated they will be able to share street access.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #260
There could be a building between the loading dock and the residential area. Director
Hurlburt commented that the loading docks would be on the Holly Lane side.
Commissioner Bildsoe asked if the 355 vacant acres of industrial land in the MUSA
included the applicant's 74 acres. Director Hurlburt replied affirmatively.
Chairman Stulberg asked if the Commission goes along with staffs' recommendation, will
it go to City Council right away. Planning Supervisor Senness replied that it wouldn't go
to City Council right away, it just would give the applicant a sense of what the current
Planning Commission would go along with.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Bob Dahl, representing the petitioner.
Mr. Dahl stated that Elim operates facilities in seven communities. It has been their dream
to do something different, such as a campus style with for -sale townhomes, and
assisted/congregate living units. No one in the state has this type of facility for aging in
place. Their goal was to provide it all at one facility.
Mr. Dahl stated that the land set aside for industrial was not what they wanted to do. If
the application is approved, they have made arrangements to purchase an additional six
acres from Glory of Christ Church. Mr. Dahl stated that they were required to show the
three industrial buildings and because of that they are now being required to do an EAW.
He stated that since they are a non-profit organization, they need to know if the
Commission will go along with their proposal before they put money into an EAW.
Commissioner Ribbe asked what their plans are for the 17.3 acres if they don't intend to
build the industrial buildings. Mr. Dahl replied that if they have to have an industrial area,
they will sell off that portion to another developer that specializes in industrial building.
Commissioner Ribbe commented that in their previous application it was proposed to have
residential next to a working farm, and he questioned whether that was a wise decision.
Mr. Dahl replied that they don't know how long a working farm can continue to operate
there. Their intention was to berm between the residential and the Leuer Farm, which
would not be any different from berming industrial from the Leuer Farm.
Commissioner Spigner asked why the buildings are shown if the applicant doesn't intend
on building them. Director Hurlburt responded that since the land is under one ownership,
the City requires a Sketch Plan as to how the rest of their property fits into the area, so
staff can look at the land use relationship, utilities, etc. to see what the ultimate project
will be. The City needs to see how any proposed roads would be shown on the plans to
prevent any potential land -lock.
Chairman Stulberg asked if an EAW would be required if the applicant had included the
17 acres in their proposal for reguiding. Planning Supervisor Senness replied
affirmatively. Chairman Stulberg stated that if the applicant comes back with a proposal
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #261
for what they want, an EAW would still be required. Mr. Dahl commented that they need
a significant nod from the Commission as to if this plan is viable.
Commissioner Spigner asked what the applicant will do if the Commission said the plan is
not viable. Mr. Dahl responded that they will withdraw the application and sell the entire
parcel. Commissioner Spigner asked if they would look for another piece of property in
Plymouth. Director Hurlburt replied that there is not another parcel inside the MUSA.
Commissioner Bildsoe asked the applicant why they don't take their chance with the City
Council if the Commission votes against the project. Mr. Dahl responded that the City
Council usually abides by the recommendation of the Planning Commission. Chairman
Stulberg stated that the City Council does not always go by what the Planning
Commission recommends. Mr. Dahl stated that he had talked with City Councilmembers
individually regarding their original application, but couldn't get enough support from
them to go forward with their application.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Tom Van Housen, representing the petitioner. Mr. Van
Housen stated that they have always talked about 348 units. In that process they had to
make an agreement to buy six acres from Glory of Christ Church to get their density up to
meet their critical mass, to make it financially feasible. They increased the density on the
congregate units.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked if they would be satisfied with an indication to proceed
with the project, and exactly what action they are requesting. Chairman Stulberg replied
that they want to move forward with the Land Use Guide Plan Amendment.
Commissioner Spigner asked if the Commission is considering the rezoning also.
Chairman Stulberg replied negatively.
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Gary Fishbeck of 3410 Lawndale Lane North. Mr.
Fishbeck stated his preference for the site to be residential. He stated he would rather
look at a residential site than industrial buildings. He stated that the land is more
conducive to residential rather than industrial. Mr. Fishbeck commented that it is a
mistake to require the industrial area of 17 acres. He stated that it should be residential,
and it should also include the Leuer property.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Dan Quarberg of 3420 Olive Lane North. Mr. Quarberg
stated he does not agree with the industrial portion as Plymouth Ponds is already an
eyesore. He stated that the Commission should learn from past mistakes, such as
approving Plymouth Ponds, and the property should be all high density residential.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #262
Chairman Stulberg introduced Ron Hanson of 3260 Olive Lane North. Mr. Hanson stated
his disapproval with the Plymouth Ponds development, and commented that this
application should be all residential.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Kevin Leuer of 4335 Weston Lane North. Mr. Leuer
stated that he represents Leuer Farms, which has been in operation since 1891, and has no
intention of going out of business. Mr. Leuer stated that farming is an active enterprise
that is more compatible with an industrial site. He stated his concern for having residential
next to a farming operation or an industrial area. Mr. Leuer asked if congregate living
units would provide a tax base. Mr. Leuer stated that the plan for the property that
borders the northern portion of the Leuer site looks good, but there still needs to be more
buffering along the western portion of the Leuer property. Mr. Leuer commented that he
would like to see a setback along the western portion of their site more absorbed by the
Elim property.
Mr. Leuer raised the following issues/comments. The Leuer parcel is approximately 344
foot by 1,480 feet long making it difficult to develop as industrial when it's abutting any
residential property. There is a 300 foot setback for loading docks when industrial
property adjoins residential property, which makes it more difficult to develop as
industrial. There are additional screening requirements for both parking and rooftop
equipment when the industrial property is adjacent to residential property. The extension
of Holly Lane through the Leuer property should be reconfigured to minimize the impact
on the Leuer property. The alignment of Lawndale Lane is not consistent with the other
side of Medina Road, and thus poses a safety hazard. The City of Plymouth does not have
an abundance of industrial land yet to be developed. The area was originally designed as
industrial.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mary Leuer of 17435 Medina Road. Ms. Leuer stated that
the applicant's property was reguided to industrial and asked where the people were at
that time.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Paul Halgren of 3500 Olive Lane North. Mr. Halgren
commented that the proposed development is better than the Plymouth Ponds
development. Mr. Halgren stated that if it were to remain industrial, it would impact the
surrounding residents more than what Elim is proposing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced David Sheffield of 3530 Olive Lane North. Mr. Sheffield
stated that there is currently a lot of truck traffic from the Plymouth Ponds site. He stated
that maybe Heather Run should never have been residential, but that can't be changed.
Mr. Sheffield urged the Commission to make the right decision.
Mr. Leuer asked if the public hearing would be left open. Chairman Stulberg replied that
it is up to the Commission.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #263
Mr. Fishbeck commented that the proposed units look too dense.
Commissioner Spigner suggested that the public hearing be closed. Chairman Stulberg
closed the public hearing.
Director Hurlburt stated that a detailed recommendation of the alignment of Lawndale
Lane has not been made at this time.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that there has been a lot of industrial land developed
this last year. There is a short-term shortage of residential land, but maybe a long-term
shortage of industrial. The project would reduce the industrial supply. Director Hurlburt
stated that there is a projected 10 -year supply of industrial land, and a three to four year
supply of residential. Chairman Stulberg noted that there would be few sites available for
industrial as northwest Plymouth is expanded.
Planning Supervisor Senness pointed out the delineation line between residential and
industrial, which follows the sewer line.
In response to setback questions, Director Hurlburt stated that the setback is measured
from the Leuer property line.
Pertaining to the tax difference between not for profit and for profit, Planning Supervisor
Senness replied that the petitioner hasn't determined if it will be apartments, or for -sale
condominiums. Director Hurlburt stated they could pay less in taxes than privately owned
property.
Commissioner Ribbe asked how much property the applicant owns and when they
purchased it.
Mr. Dahl replied that they have owned 55 acres since the early 1970s. They purchased 36
acres from Hans Hagen a little over a year ago. Their intent has always been a retirement
community. If approved, they will purchase an additional six acres.
MOTION to approve by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe
recommending approval of a Land Use Guide Plan Amendment, Planned Unit
Development and Rezoning for Elim Care, Inc. for property located at the northeast
corner of County Road 101 and Medina Road.
Commissioner Stoebner asked if the motion is limited to 74 acres. Commissioner
Thompson replied affirmatively. Commissioner Berkowitz stated he was planning on
making a motion to approve a Land Use Guide Plan Amendment with no conditions
attached to it, and tabling the rest of the request, pending the preparation of a resolution.
Commissioner Thompson stated the Commission can do that without a resolution,
eliminating everything pertaining the industrial buildings.
Planning Commission Minutes
October 22, 1996
Page #264
Commissioner Ribbe stated the project fits the needs of the residents and would be an
asset to the City. Commissioner Berkowitz stated when he voted against the proposal in
April, it was due to the Leuer property. By eliminating the industrial buildings, options
remain open.
Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
Chairman Stulberg commented that as this application comes back before the Planning
Commission, they will be very critical in looking at the transition between residential and
industrial. The Leuer Farm and industry will continue on for a very long time.
8. NEW BUSINESS
A. ZONING ORDINANCE UPDATE.
Planning Supervisor Senness gave a summary of upcoming meeting dates. Director
Hurlburt commented that the public hearing for the proposed Zoning Ordinance will be on
November 12, 1996.
MOTION by Commissioner Bildsoe, seconded by Commissioner Thompson to adjourn.
Meeting adjourned at 12:00 a.m.