HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 06-30-1998CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING NOTES
Workshop on Comprehensive Plan Update—Northwest Area
June 30, 1998
MEMBERS PRESENT:
MEMBERS ABSENT:
STAFF PRESENT:
Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Allen Ribbe, Bob
Stein, Roger Berkowitz, John Stoebner and Jeffrey
Thompson
Commissioner Kim Koehnen
Community Development Director Anne Hurlburt,
Assistant City Manager Kathy Lueckert, Planning
Supervisor Barb Senness, Financial Analyst Mike Kohn,
Planner John Rask and Planner Kendra Lindahl
OTHERS PRESENT: Mayor Joy Tierney, City Council Members Judy Johnson,
Tim Bildsoe and Ginny Black; Consultant David Licht,
Northwest Associated Consultants (NAC)
Chair Stulberg called the meeting to order at 7:03 p.m.
Consultant Licht reviewed the work that had occurred to date, including the interactive
community meeting held in May of 1997 and the open house meeting held in April of
1998 to review the draft plan options. He briefly reviewed memos provided to the
Commission containing updated population and household forecasts, and demographic
projections of the population age structure.
Financial Analyst Mike Kohn summarized the results of the Fiscal Analysis and the
report provided to the Commission. He stated that the analysis shows that more
development is a net benefit to the City's general fund operating costs, and that one-time
costs of new development would be covered by the one-time revenues from sources such
as building permits. Development would result in revenues exceeding the costs to provide
services to the new development. The City benefits from economies of scale so that the
marginal cost of serving new residents is reduced. He and Director Hurlburt answered
questions about the report and the assumptions the analysis was based upon.
Director Hurlburt explained that the report does not address fiscal impacts on the two
school districts that would be affected by additional urban expansion, but that the staff
and consultant would be following up with both the Wayzata and Osseo districts to
review the demographic projections.
June 30, 1998 Meeting Notes
Page 2
Consultant Licht reviewed the background considerations for Plymouth's planning
decisions, including the draft land use and development staging plans recently released
by Maple Grove. He explained that there are two levels of decisions the City must make.
First there must be a broad "macro" scale consideration of to what extent if any is growth
to occur in the northwest area. Once that decision has been made, a narrower "micro"
scale evaluation can take place on the detailed aspects of the plan for the area including
land uses, land use transitions, street improvements, community facilities and services
and environmental protection.
Consultant Licht reviewed the criteria and factors to be evaluated to determine which
plan option is best for the area and the community as a whole. He reviewed the regional
policies for urban expansion and sewer service and how they apply to Plymouth. He
explained that the region is expected to grow by 700,000 people in the next 20 years and
that this growth is expected to be absorbed into the Metro Council's illustrative 2020
MUSA (Metropolitan Urban Service Area), which includes all of northwest Plymouth.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked if most of this growth is expected to go into areas already
developed. Licht responded that if the growth can't be accommodated in existing urban
areas and areas identified for MUSA expansion, the growth will occur elsewhere such as
outlying communities and the area may not reach the forecasted growth.
Commissioner Stein asked if there would be penalties from the Metro Council if a city
does not urbanize. Hurlburt explained that the Metro Council is currently discussing this,
particularly in the area of sewers if regional investments are made and a community does
not develop as regional policy would indicate. The Elm Creek interceptor will probably
be needed to serve Medina even if northwest Plymouth doesn't urbanize, and the Metro
Council may want Plymouth to share the cost. These issues are still under discussion and
some legislative changes may be needed to implement any penalties.
Hurlburt explained that the Metropolitan Council does have authority to require cities to
modify their comprehensive plans if they are inconsistent with regional system plans.
However, they prefer to negotiate with the community. Licht pointed out that since
zoning must reflect the comprehensive plan, if the Metro Council requires a plan
modification they essentially require the property be zoned accordingly.
Commissioner Berkowitz pointed out that within the Osseo School District there is a
problem with Plymouth students getting shuffled from one school to another. We should
make sure that the school district is aware of this problem. Hurlburt explained that the
consultations with the Osseo district during the "tactics" interviews last year identified
this as an issue, and that the City had given them information on potential school sites
within Plymouth and showed a possible school location on the plan maps.
Commissioner Thompson asked if we had asked the City Attorney what rights we have
with the Metropolitan Council. Hurlburt explained that there was no case law on the
Metropolitan Council requiring plan modifications. Staff will provide a copy of this
June 30, 1998 Meeting Notes
Page 3
portion of the law to Commissioners. Licht indicated that any single factor, such as
regional policy, should not dictate the City's decision on the best option.
Commissioner Stein asked if there was a "hybrid" option that could be considered. Chair
Stulberg said that would be for the Commission to build. Licht explained that once the
basic concept was chosen, it was likely that some changes or alternatives would be
developed for land use plans and public facility plans.
Councilmember Johnson asked if the City doesn't urbanize the area west of Vicksburg
would we have to pay for the Elm Creek interceptor. Hurlburt said that was a separate
decision and would have to be negotiated with the Metro Council.
Councilmember Black asked if the city gets slapped with a fee for not developing, if the
people in the already developed area pay or if the city could assess the cost to the people
in northwest Plymouth. Hurlburt said that the City couldn't assess for an improvement or
facility that is not provided. If there were costs to the City's sewer fund, only users of the
sewer system would pay. The fiscal analysis did not assume any general fund impact for
sewer system costs.
Licht pointed out that if the City does not utilize the Elm Creek interceptor and relies
only on the existing connection to the Metropolitan system, that might actually accelerate
the need for the interceptor to provide sewer service to Medina which now receives
service through Plymouth's trunk system.
Commissioner Stein asked about the pressures for Plymouth to expand roads if other
communities around us develop. Licht said that as the southwest corner of Maple Grove
fills up, there will be an impact on Plymouth streets as these people travel to I-494 and
other regional highways. As the freeways become more congested, there will be more
pressure on local streets which will be used as alternatives.
Stein asked whether the County or State could step in to upgrade the roads. Hurlburt
explained that the major north to south routes through the northwest area (Peony and
Vicksburg) are City streets and the County and state are not interested in acquiring more
roads. The financial analysis assumed that the money the City receives from the state for
state aid roads would pay for needed upgrades to these facilities. Licht pointed out that
the roads will be impacted whether or not the City improves them or not, and that sooner
or later congestion could spill over onto local streets and safety could become an issue.
Commissioner Stein asked why we weren't pushing for an access to I-494 at Schmidt
Lake Road if north to south transportation routes will be an issue. Hurlburt explained
that the land uses in the northwest area would not determine the need for another
interchange, but that congestion at the existing interchanges will determine the need.
However, if there is too much congestion on the freeway itself an interchange might not
be possible. The transportation plan will need to examine the need for an interchange.
June 30, 1998 Meeting Notes
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Commissioner Thompson asked how the City could make a wise decision on land use if
we don't know if adequate transportation facilities will be available. Licht explained that
the land uses in northwest Plymouth will not determine whether the major roadways can
handle the traffic as the roads will be impacted by all the development in the northwest
part of the Metro area and beyond. Not enough development could go into the northwest
area to make a difference on I-494.
Commissioner Thompson asked how the alternatives relate to the Livable Communities
Act requirements. Hurlburt explained that Livable Communities is voluntary, but the
City is required to have a housing plan. Assumptions on densities have been made
similar to our current plan and adopted goals. Thompson asked how the plan fits with the
regional density goals. Licht explained that the goal (3 units per net acre for single
family) would be met in the urban area, but the City will not achieve the Metro Council's
population forecasts without complete urbanization.
Chair Stulberg opened the floor for public comments.
A resident asked whether the Commission and Council members had visited the
northwest area. The area is not what it used to be, there is already a lot of traffic. Chair
Stulberg answered that he lives in the area, and the other members indicated that they
have visited the area as well.
Mr. Tom Reiersgord said that the regional plan was not done right to begin with and that
the battle was lost long ago; the area is already urbanized. He cited the location of the
new high school and road improvements affecting his property at the northeast corner of
Schmidt Lake Road and Peony. He said that growth should not occur from east to west,
but from north to south, as was done with the most recent adjustments to the City's
MUSA boundary. He said that the only sensible solution is to plan for full development.
A resident stated that technology is increasing and change is happening too fast to make
20 -year plans today. He said that the City should err on the side of more choice for
individuals.
Mr. Paul Wardell stated that attendance at meetings had been dwindling since the
interactive forum last year, and that two-thirds of the people in the northwest area said
there should be no development and the Commission should remember that. He said
there was a perception that the City would do whatever they want and the opinions of the
residents will be disregarded. He said that we need to decide what we want the spirit of
the community to be. Are we going to be another suburb like everyone else or are we
going to be special? Why couldn't kids see horses and cows in Plymouth 20 years from
now?
Hurlburt stated that the statistics quoted from the 1997 interactive forum by Mr. Wardell
were not correct. Participants at that meeting were more evenly divided among no
development, full development or some development, similar to the responses to the
surveys from the May 1998 open house.
June 30, 1998 Meeting Notes
Page 5
A resident asked why she should provide the open space for people to come and look at,
when it is less and less feasible to farm her land.
Mr. Albert Yngve said you are fooling yourselves if you think this small area of
northwest Plymouth is not going to develop.
A resident asked how long a wait it would be before she could develop her land. Director
Hurlburt answered that it would be some time before the City completed and adopted the
revised comprehensive plan, so it could be a year before landowners could make plans
based on a new plan.
A representative of the Lake Camelot Homeowners Associated asked what the next steps
would be. Chair Stulberg asked Director Hurlburt to review the activities of the project
so far and all the opportunities for public comment that had been provided so far. He
stated that the next step would be the July 14 Planning Commission meeting which would
be a public hearing before the Commission makes a recommendation to the City Council.
Discussion among Commission and Councilmembers followed concerning whether
additional opportunities for public input should be provided, including notifying residents
in the rest of the City, and whether sufficient notice could be given prior to the July 14
meeting. It was pointed out that the City Council was unlikely to take up the matter until
after they had finished with the 1999 budget, and that the Commission needed to hold a
thorough hearing so that the Council would not need to duplicate their efforts.
It was decided that a hearing would not be held on July 14; rather, the Commission will at
that meeting set a date for a public hearing to be held at a later date that will allow for
advertising the meeting date in the Plymouth News.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:55 p.m.