HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 03-17-1998APPROVED
CITY OF PLYMOUTH
PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES
MARCH 17, 1998
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners John Stoebner,
Kim Koehnen, Allen Ribbe, Jeff Thompson (arrived at 7:06
p.m.) and Bob Stein
MEMBERS ABSENT: Commissioner Roger Berkowitz
STAFF PRESENT: Community Development Director Anne Hurlburt, Planning
Supervisor Barb Senness, Planners John Rask, Kendra
Lindahl, and Shawn Drill, Assistant City Engineer Ron
Quanbeck, and Clerical Supervisor Denise Hutt
1. CALL TO ORDER:
2. PUBLIC FORUM:
3. APPROVAL OF AGENDA:
4. APPROVAL OF MINUTES: No minutes.
5. CONSENT AGENDA:
A. DANIEL AND ANN MARIE ARNOLD (98004)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Daniel and Ann Marie Arnold for a Lot
Division/Consolidation and Variance for land subdivision in the FRD Zoning District
located at 1745 and 1755 Troy Lane North.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner recommending
approval of a Lot Division/Lot Consolidation and Variance for Daniel and Ann Marie
Arnold for property located at 1745 Troy Lane North and 1755 Troy Lane North. Vote.
5 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
B. ROBBINSDALE AREA SCHOOLS (ISD #281)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Robbinsdale Area Schools (ISD #281) for a
Site Plan Amendment to erect scoreboards at the baseball and softball fields at Armstrong
High School located at 10635 36th Avenue North.
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Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #46
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner recommending
approval of a Site Plan Amendment to allow installation of two scoreboards at Armstrong
High School, 10635 36th
Avenue North. Vote 5 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A. HENNEPIN COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE (97155)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Hennepin County Sheriff's Office for a
Zoning Ordinance Text Amendment to allow public safety communication towers, Site
Plan Amendment, and Conditional Use Permit for a 350 -foot communication tower at
1145 Shenandoah Lane.
Planner Rask gave an overview of the March 11, 1998 staff report.
Commissioner Thompson asked what authority the Radio Board has and noticed that
there is no member from the City of Plymouth. Planner Rask replied that the City is not
being forced to participate in this proposal, but if the City elected not to use this system,
the City would have to develop their own independent system, at their own cost. Planner
Rask stated the applicant could address the issue of the Radio Board.
Commissioner Stein asked at what distance from the tower is the intensity of the light at
ground level equivalent to a 40 -watt light bulb. Planner Rask replied that staff did look at
some towers with this type of light. He said you can see the light from several hundred
feet away, and as you get closer, the intensity of the light diminishes.
Commissioner Thompson asked where the 40 -watt bulb intensity was measured from.
Planner Rask replied that the applicant will respond to the question.
Commissioner Koehnen asked if the groundwater 40 -feet below grade would cause any
problems. Planner Rask replied negatively.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mike Hogan of MnDot (formerly with Hennepin County),
representing the petitioner. Mr. Hogan commented that the red light image was taken
from 300 feet to a quarter mile back. The red light is directed upward toward a pilot's
eyes and not the ground. At 300 feet to a quarter mile, it is equivalent to a 40 -watt bulb.
Mr. Hogan said that the current lighting system would appear brighter than the one that is
proposed.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Roger Lawrence, of Hennepin County, representing the
petitioner. Mr. Lawrence stated that the Adult Correctional Facility (ACF) is currently
leasing circuits from the telephone company at an annual cost of $8,000 to $10,000. The
current structure is unsound and unsafe. Mr. Lawrence explained that the proposed site is
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Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #47
the ideal location for the transmitters, as it is the geographical center of the County. The
proposed system provides for high reliability performance for portable radios in Plymouth,
at a reduced cost.
Mr. Lawrence stated that the Radio Board's membership is regulated by State statute, and
is comprised of members appointed by the governor. Mr. Lawrence explained that anyone
can submit names to the governor's office for consideration.
Chairman Stulberg asked what height the microwave receiver has to be placed. Mr.
Lawrence replied that it is based on terrain and path. He presented a map depicting the
microwave routes. He said that one points to the Hennepin County Government Center
rooftop downtown, one to the Medina tower, and one to the Minnetonka City Hall.
Chairman Stulberg asked if all three microwave dishes are for T-1 services. Mr. Lawrence
stated that there are 84-T-1 sites. He said that there are additional T-1 lines for surplus.
Mr. Lawrence stated that a 275 -foot tower is needed for the T-1 line.
Chairman Stulberg asked if there is enough access to sell space. Mr. Lawrence responded
that government entities are prohibited from selling space to private companies. Chairman
Stulberg asked if the tower at County Road 101 and Highway 55 could be used for this
proposal. Mr. Lawrence explained they need to develop equal spacing between sites. The
site at County Road 101 and Highway 55 would be too close to the tower they are
building in Medina. Mr. Lawrence said that the total additional costs to use an alternate
site would be $530,000. (Design -$15,000, back-up generator -$80,000, add microwave
link between alternate site and the ACF -$250,000, add 150 -foot microwave tower -
100,000, and add 800 Mhz to building amplifiers -$85,000).
Commissioner Thompson asked what the Radio Board does. Mr. Lawrence replied that it
is spelled out in the State statutes, but basically, they are responsible for regional planning
implementation. Commissioner Thompson asked how fees would be charged to localities
in the future. Mr. Lawrence replied that the Radio Board did hire a consultant to project
costs, and have come up with a model for a $60.00 per year cost per radio user. Mr.
Lawrence stated that if fees are assessed in the future, the State picks up half the cost, and
the remaining is to be paid by the county, emergency users, and local governments, based
on equal distribution per radio distribution usage.
Commissioner Thompson asked if there is one central location to process calls and a
bunch of towers elsewhere. Mr. Lawrence replied that is correct. Currently, they transmit
from one site at a time, either from the Golden Valley site or the ACF site. He stated that
they will be using a simulcast system with the 800 mhz. There will be a small compliment
of about six systems that will be carried forward for hand held radios and emergency
pagers. Mr. Lawrence said that Golden Valley has a 400 -foot tower in a residential area,
and they are constructing a 400 -foot tower in Medina. There are also 200-300 foot
towers located in Brooklyn Park, Bloomington, and Minnetrista.
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March 17, 1998
Page #48
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Marsha Videen of 1151 Kingsview Lane. Ms. Videen
stated that while she recognizes the need for a new system, the proposed location is a
horrible place for it. Ms. Videen said that the current tower doesn't look that bad
compared to the proposed tower. Ms. Videen commented that she bought her home for
the view. She asked if the Bloomington tower is located in a residential area. Ms. Videen
stated that the lights are a concern. She asked if there will be more microwave dishes
added to the tower in the future. Ms. Videen stated that a painted tower would be worse
than the galvanized finish. Ms. Videen stated that other options/sites should be explored.
Chairman Stulberg introduced a letter dated March 17, 1998 from Peter Spink of 1321
Kingsview Lane North.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
Mr. Lawrence stated that the tower in Bloomington is located at 81st Avenue and
Wentworth, which is a light commercial area, but the tower can be seen from a residential
area. Mr. Lawrence stated that he believes the photo imaging makes the tower look much
wider than it actually is.
Chairman Stulberg asked if the tower would support other microwave receivers. Mr.
Lawrence stated that the tower could handle four to five microwave receivers, but they
are not interested in leasing nor does the County have any plans at this time to add any
additional microwave dishes.
Mr. Lawrence commented that the light on the tower is angled above the horizontal,
pushing the light up. Mr. Lawrence stated that there are towers in Brooklyn Park and
Corcoran that use the same type of light that is being proposed. He said that if you get
out several hundred yards, you can barely see the light. Mr. Lawrence stated that the
typical water tower is 100 to 200 feet in height, which is not of sufficient height or
structural capacity for what they need.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Thompson recommending
approval of an Ordinance amending the Plymouth City Code, by amending Chapter 21
Antennas and the P -I, Public Institutional Zoning District) and the Findings of Fact for
amending Section 21175 and 21650 of the Plymouth City Code (Antennas and
Public/Institutional Districts). Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved
unanimously.
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March 17, 1998
Page #49
MOTION by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Koehnen
recommending approval of a Site Plan Amendment and Conditional Use Permit for a 350 -
foot communication tower at 1145 Shenandoah Lane.
Commissioner Koehnen stated that while she was sympathetic to residents, she felt this
would be the best site and place for the tower. Commissioner Thompson stated that the
tower would be terribly large and ugly and would disrupt the view, but he said the City
does have to promote public safety and this is an essential service. He did state he was
troubled by lack of City representation on the Radio Board.
Roll Call Vote. 6Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
B. KENNETH R. STREETER COMPANIES (97183)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Kenneth R. Streeter for a Site Plan,
Conditional Use Permit and Variances for two commercial buildings totaling 21,700
square feet for property located at the southeast corner of 34th Avenue North and
Plymouth Boulevard.
Planning Supervisor Senness gave an overview of the February 27, 1998 staff report.
Commissioner Koehnen asked what staff meant by "...the plan as proposed would
constitute a major departure from the central principles of the City Center Plan" referred
to on Page 5 of the staff report. Planning Supervisor Senness stated the comment was
part of the initial staff analysis. She stated that the Commission needs to decide whether
what has now been proposed meets the standards that are in the ordinance. Chairman
Stulberg commented that if the Commission feels the proposal meets the intent, then the
ordinance does not need to be changed. Director Hurlburt stated that the Commission
needs to decide if the proposed changes the applicant made overcome the previous
findings that they do not meet the plan. Commissioner Thompson asked what has
changed with the application, since it was previously denied based on the finding that it
didn't meet hardship criteria. Planning Supervisor Senness commented that if you
consider the proposed building elevations as meeting the design standards, there would be
no variance required. Regarding the setback variance, she said when the city looked at the
TCF proposal, they were granted a similar variance because of the topography. Director
Hurlburt commented that variances can't be looked at separately from a site plan, even
though one of them might have been justified.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Kenneth R. Streeter, the petitioner. Mr. Streeter stated
that there are numerous problems with the site, including poor soils, topography and
predetermined access. He also stated that he has met the intent of the City Center Plan in
spirit and letter.
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March 17, 1998
Page #50
Commissioner Stoebner asked why the plaza was eliminated. Mr. Streeter stated that it
was no longer appropriate with the introduction of glazing on the Plymouth Boulevard
side of the buildings.
Commissioner Thompson asked Mr. Streeter if he would object to the plaza if the
Commission required a plaza as part of an approval. Mr. Streeter stated he did not think it
was a good idea to have a plaza and the windows, as it is inconsistent with the plan and
inappropriate. If required, Mr. Streeter said he would rather have a blending of both.
Director Hurlburt commented that staff would not see adding the plaza back in as a trade
off for the windows. Planning Supervisor Senness stated that the City Center Plan
encourages use of plazas with buildings of a certain size. Although the applicant's
proposal is below that threshold, she said that the City Center Plan would identify a plaza
as a positive aspect, with or without the windows.
Chairman Stulberg asked how this proposal meets the intent of the City Center Plan since
it is not oriented toward Plymouth Boulevard. Mr. Streeter replied that it has the look and
feel that meets the intent. Mr. Streeter said that he needs the project to be a viable
marketable property. Mr. Streeter stated that if the project doesn't face Highway 55, the
project does not move forward.
Chairman Stulberg opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to
speak.
MOTION by Commissioner Koehnen, seconded by Commissioner Stein recommending
denial of a Site Plan, Conditional Use Permit and Variances for Kenneth R. Streeter
Companies for Plymouth Hills Shopping Center for property located at the southeast
corner of
34th Avenue North and Plymouth Boulevard.
Commissioner Stein stated that the proposal does not meet the intent of the City Center
Plan, and not enough effort was made to integrate the project. He said that there are other
design alternatives that could be considered.
Commissioner Koehnen commented that the City Center Plan states that the proposal
must face Plymouth Boulevard. She stated that there are other projects that don't face I-
494, and you can tell what the business is. Commissioner Koehnen stated that the project
should be marketable.
Commissioner Thompson stated he doesn't believe the project will be viable if it doesn't
face toward Highway 55. He commented that there has to be some flexibility to allow an
essential dual face. He said it would be more offensive to the City Center if a project is
not economically feasible, and you are left with empty buildings. He suggested that more
be done with a plaza.
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Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #51
Commissioner Ribbe stated that there is a danger of trying to get the project to fit in, and
you could wind up with vacancies. He said that it seems the applicant has made efforts to
allow this to fit in with the overall decor. Commissioner Ribbe stated he would like to see
something constructed on the site.
Commissioner Koehnen commented that the City Center Plan would not have required
projects to face Plymouth Boulevard knowing that it wouldn't be viable.
Chairman Stulberg commented that there are ways to readjust the buildings and their size,
or put the plaza back in. He said that maybe the orientation of the building gets mitigated
for a dual front building. He stated that he doesn't think the City Center Plan prohibits
projects from going in.
Commissioner Stein said the applicant has not made an effort to design an appropriate
building for the site. He said that the applicant has not brought any facts to support his
statements.
Commissioner Thompson said some compromises were made to make it a dual
orientation.
Commissioner Koehnen asked if neither motion passes to deny or approve where does it
go. Chairman Stulberg said it can go to the City Council with no recommendation.
Roll Call Vote. 2 Ayes. MOTION failed on a 2-4 Vote. (Commissioners Thompson,
Stoebner, Ribbe and Chairman Stulberg voted Nay.)
MOTION by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner
recommending approval of a Site Plan, Conditional Use Permit and Variances for Kenneth
R. Streeter Companies for Plymouth Hills Shopping Center for property located at the
southeast corner of
34th Avenue North and Plymouth Boulevard.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe to
add a new #9 indicating that the petitioner should work with staff prior to meeting with
the City Council to design a plaza or other dual frontage effects.
Chairman Stulberg stated that he is concerned that the proposal wouldn't come back to
the Commission to look at again. Director Hurlburt commented that the motion is the
same direction that they had previously, with the current proposal as the outcome.
MOTION to Amend Withdrawn.
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Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #52
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Ribbe to
add a new Condition #9 requiring the applicant provide the predefined plaza. Roll Call
Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved on a 5-1 Vote. (Chairman Stulberg voted Nay.)
Commissioner Stein said he would not support the motion as the design presented is not
adequate, and it is not appropriate to redesign the building.
Chairman Stulberg stated that the buildings can be reoriented and shrunk to fit the site.
Roll Call Vote on Main MOTION. 3 Ayes. MOTION failed on a 3-3 Vote.
Commissioners Koehnen and Stein and Chairman Stulberg voted Nay.)
MOTION by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Stein recommending denial
of a Site Plan, Conditional Use Permit and Variances for Kenneth R. Streeter Companies
for Plymouth Hills Shopping Center for property located at the southeast corner of 34th
Avenue North and Plymouth Boulevard, with the deletion of all conditions except
Condition #1.
Commissioner Thompson commented that if the Commissioners don't vote for the
motion, then it would get sent to the City Council with no recommendation. Chairman
Stulberg stated it could be tabled for redesign. Director Hurlburt noted that the item
couldn't be tabled because of the review deadline.
Roll Call Vote. 3 Ayes. MOTION approved on a 3-2 Vote. (Commissioners Stoebner
and Ribbe voted Nay and Commissioner Thompson abstained.)
C. LAWRENCE BEGIN (97185)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Lawrence Begin for an Interim Use Permit
to allow filling of property located south of 43rd
Avenue (extended) and approximately
600 feet east of Fernbrook Lane.
Planner Drill gave an overview of the March 6, 1998 staff report.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Larry Begin, the petitioner. Mr. Begin concurred with the
staff report and conditions for approval.
Chairman Stulberg opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to
speak on the issue.
MOTION by Commissioner Stoebner, seconded by Commissioner Thompson
recommending approval of an Interim Use Permit for Lawrence Begin for property
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Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #53
located south of 43rd
Avenue (extended) and approximately 600 feet east of Fernbrook
Lane. Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
Chairman Stulberg called a recess at 8:59 p.m. and reconvened the meeting at 9:12 p.m.
D. OPPIDAN, INC. (97187)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Oppidan, Inc. for a Planned Unit
Development (PUD) Amendment for a master sign plan for "Plymouth Station" shopping
center located at the southeast quadrant of Highway 55 and County Road 24.
Planner Lindahl gave an overview of the March 11, 1998 staff report.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Keith Ulstad, representing the petitioner. Mr. Ulstad
commended staff for months of hard work and negotiations to incorporate everything into
one document. He said he was surprised that staff's recommendation excluded the
entrance sign on the south side of the main entrance, as he sees the entrance sign on both
sides as a gateway to the project. Mr. Ulstad did not think that the sign would conflict
with the gas station sign, as the signs are of different architecture and shape. Mr. Ulstad
commented that the signs on the professional building would not be illuminated.
Commissioner Stein asked if the applicant would be willing to move the gas station sign to
the south, as it could be cluttered at that corner. Mr. Ulstad explained that he could not
agree to move the gas station sign, as it is a different property owner. He explained that
the proposed gas station sign is 10 feet tall, and couldn't be moved back, as it needs to be
seen from County Road 24.
Commissioner Stein suggested that the entrance sign be placed in the median. Director
Hurlburt stated that the median might not be wide enough and it could cause a safety
hazard. Mr. Ulstad said that they would be hesitant to redesign the sign plan now.
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing. Chairman Stulberg introduced Kelli Slavik
of 3325 Everest Court North. Ms. Slavik stated that the whole process has been a waste
of the neighborhood's time. She said that the residents wanted the commercial
development kept out of the neighborhood. She stated that this is a case of irresponsible
government in favor of a developer. Ms. Slavik commented that residents have moved
out of the neighborhood due to the commercial project. Ms. Slavik said that the signs will
negatively impact the neighborhood. She stated that the proposal should be made to
comply with the standards - "generally in compliance with the standards" is not
acceptable. Ms. Slavik stated that staff should not be concerned with the commercial
viability of the project. She asked who city staff is working for. Ms. Slavik stated that the
development was supposed to meet a neighborhood need, thus they don't need a gigantic
sign telling them where it is; they already know. Ms. Slavik asked where the trade-off is
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Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #54
that is referred to on pages 6 and 7 of the staff report. She stated that staff admits that the
signs don't comply as referrenced on page 3, paragraph 2 of the staff report. She said that
staff took the least restrictive route for the developer. Ms. Slavik said that the applicant
needs to be made to follow a plan, not just in spirit. Ms. Slavik said that the project is
going forward at the expense of Plymouth residents.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jerry Ruegemer of 3290 Garland Lane. Mr. Reugemer
stated that he was disappointed that the majority of the signs don't comply. He asked if
the freestanding signs would be illuminated. If so, he wanted to know if there would be
excess light into the neighborhood. Mr. Ruegemer asked where the kiosk would be
located. Planner Lindahl pointed out where the kiosk would be located on Highway 55.
He stated that he didn't think the kiosk is necessary for the site. Mr. Ruegemer stated that
he was concerned about the size of the letters on the Rainbow Foods sign. Mr. Ruegemer
asked the Commission to consider the residents' concerns, and think about the long term
effect on their neighborhood.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
Mr. Ulstad said that the freestanding area identification signs are not internally lit, but
rather there are lights on the ground that shine upward. Director Hurlburt asked if the
same is true for the kiosk Mr. Ulstad replied that the kiosk signs would have individually
lit letters for the tenant sign, and the reader board would be back -lit. Mr. Ulstad said the
kiosk sign is located at least 1000 feet from the south residential property line. Director
Hurlburt commented that there is a building much taller than the sign and the kiosk
located between the neighborhood and the sign. Mr. Ulstad said that they could have had
a 36 -foot high pylon sign, and stated that this proposal is a good compromise.
Planner Lindahl stated that there was tradeoff and compromise. Staff looked at ways to
buffer the residents from the signs. She stated that the area of the Rainbow Foods sign
still conforms to the PUD approval of 7 percent. She said that the letter "b" in the
Rainbow Foods sign is the only letter that is larger. Planner Lindahl stated that staff
works to enforce the ordinance. She said that the proposal is not something that staff
wants, but they have to look at each application that is submitted. She stated that the
recommendation made by staff is far less then what the applicant asked for initially.
Chairman Stulberg commented that the Commission has listened to all comments
regarding this application, the same that it does for each proposal.
Commissioner Stein stated that he does have a problem with the sign at Medina Road and
Dunkirk Lane, as it is large and exceeds the ordinance. He stated that it is also the sign
that is closest to the neighborhood. Planner Lindahl explained that the ordinance allows a
96 square foot sign for each lot. This project has two multi -tenant signs, and staff felt that
this was appropriate, as it is the southern entrance to the site. She said that they are not
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March 17, 1998
Page #55
exceeding ordinance size requirement, but that it does exceed the PUD conditions.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that when staff looked at the PUD plan initially, they
were not looking at it with respect to individual tenants or specific sign proposals.
Planning Supervisor Senness stated that if this was not done as a PUD, then each lot
would have an opportunity for a sign. Director Hurlburt asked if the applicant considered
a sign similar to the decorative one with the iron fence for this portion of the site. Mr.
Ulstad replied that because of the berm, they couldn't do that here. Commissioner
Thompson stated that the problem comes from the berm that was allowed to buffer the
residents.
MOTION by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Koehnen
recommending approval of a PUD General Plan Amendment for Oppidan, Inc. for a
master sign plan for Plymouth Station located at the southeast quadrant of Highway 55
and County Road 24; an Ordinance amending Chapter 21 of the City Code to amend
Section 21655.16 for property located southeast quadrant of Highway 55 and County
Road 24; and Findings of Fact for amending the Zoning Ordinance text for Plymouth
Station located at the southeast quadrant of Highway 55 and County Road 24.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Thompson to add one sign to the south side of
the main entrance to the site to Condition #17. MOTION failed due to lack of a second.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Stein, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner to
change Condition #18b to one 40 -square foot, 6 -foot high monument sign to be in
conformance with the PUD General Plan.
Commissioner Thompson commented that it would be a mistake to change it, as people
don't know what is at the site, and they will be confused. Multi -tenant signs are standard
in retail developments, and they are useful and helpful.
Mr. Ulstad stated that Hennepin County required a major entrance on the south side. The
only tenants they plan on putting on the Dunkirk Lane and Medina Road sign are the
office and daycare facility, because it is invisible from people driving by. Commissioner
Koehnen asked if the issue then is the size of the sign or what is on the sign.
Commissioner Stein stated that he questions the size of the sign and having six spaces on
it. Commissioner Stoebner asked why there isn't enough room to put a smaller sign in.
He stated that he doesn't find either argument very persuasive. Commissioner Thompson
said that a major entrance is defined by signs, and how many cars go through the entrance.
Roll Call Vote on MOTION to Amend. 4 Ayes. MOTION carried on a 4-2 Vote.
Commissioners Thompson and Koehnen voted Nay.)
Commissioner Thompson noted his disappointment of some of the comments made during
the public hearing. He stated that the Commission has listened to hours of comments and
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March 17, 1998
Page #56
testimony. Commissioner Thompson said berms have been required, a fence has been
required, and signage has been minimized. He said that the Commission has taken
residents' input into account. Commissioner Thompson stated the gateway fencing is a lot
more aesthetically pleasing, and wished it would've passed.
Roll Call Vote on Main MOTION. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved on a 5-1 Vote.
Commissioner Ribbe voted Nay.)
E. FORESTVIEW MONTESSORI (98001)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Forestview Montessori for a Conditional Use
Permit Amendment to increase the number of children permitted and extend the hours of
operation for Forestview Montessori located at 105 Forestview Lane North.
Planner Lindahl gave an overview of the March 9, 1998 staff report.
Commissioner Stein asked why the applicant's letter is requesting 80 students, but the
application indicates 60 students. Planner Lindahl stated their original request was for 80
students, but was revised to 60.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Preethi Nugawila, the petitioner. Ms. Nugawila stated that
she concurred with the staff report.
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jo Bigot of 220 Forestview Lane. Ms. Bigot commented
that she was disappointed to have to come back to defend the neighborhood's concern
each time there is a new proposal for the school. Ms. Bigot stated that she was concerned
with the children's safety from the extra traffic in the area generated from the church and
nursery school. Ms. Bigot said that the City should consider putting in a stop sign on 3rd
Avenue.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Barbara Fallstad of 330 Forestview Lane. Ms. Fallstad is a
resident in the area and the administrator for the church. She commented that traffic is
generated not only from the church, but also the junior high school. Ms. Fallstad said that
she has actually seen a reduction in traffic in recent years due to the of lack of
snowplowing. She said that the day care is smaller than the previous daycare which had
75 students. Ms. Fallstad stated that there is a possibility that the applicant would be back
in the future for an increase in students.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Arlene Gillman of 12025 Sunset Trail. Ms. Gillman stated
that she has lived in the area for 13 years and there has been two fatal accidents plus
numerous mishaps. She commented that additional traffic should not be added to the area.
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March 17, 1998
Page #57
She stated her concern with the children waiting at the bus stop and that there are no
sidewalks on Sunset Trail.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Heidi Wolverton of 12 Forestview Lane. Ms. Wolverton
stated that she is concerned with an earlier start time in that it would add more traffic to
the area where kids are waiting for the bus. Ms. Wolverton asked if the entrance to the
site could be off of Ridgemount Avenue. She asked how safe is the drop off area at the
daycare. Ms. Wolverton said she was concerned with additional noise and traffic the
proposal could bring to the area. Ms. Wolverton asked if there would be a business sign
for the daycare.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg commented that every citizen has the right to petition the City for
changes to their property. He explained that all applications are reviewed by the
Development Review Committee (DRC) comprised of staff members from each
department. The DRC reviews the applications for safety and traffic concerns along with
compliance with the zoning ordinance.
Assistant City Engineer Quanbeck stated that an increase from 30 students to 60 students
will not push the traffic level above what is expected for a residential street. He stated
that the area is included in the Capital Improvements Program for street reconstruction in
1999 or 2000. Assistant City Engineer Quanbeck said that residents can petition the City
for stop signs and speed bumps. Chairman Stulberg asked Assistant City Engineer
Quanbeck to get back to the people that spoke about the stop signs and street
reconstructing and go over the procedure with them.
Planner Lindahl stated that the extension of hours does not significantly impact the traffic,
as it is spread out over a time period. Planner Lindahl pointed out the drop off area on the
site plan.
Assistant City Engineer Quanbeck stated that staff has not looked at an entrance off of
Ridgemount Avenue. Director Hurlburt noted that it would take quite a driveway to get
around the buildings and out to Ridgemount Avenue.
Planner Lindahl stated that there is a freestanding sign for the church, and the applicant
could potentially add on to that sign. Director Hurlburt stated that the sign has nothing to
do with the number of children.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Koehnen recommending
approval of a Conditional Use Permit Amendment for Forestview Montessori located at
105 Forestview Lane North.
APPROVED
Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #58
Commissioner Ribbe stated that much of the concerns have been traffic problems by the
excessive speeding which can't be blamed on the school. He stated that the increase in the
number of students won't improve or degrade driving habits.
Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION carried unanimously.
F. UNTIEDTS VEGETABLE FARM (98012)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Untiedts Vegetable Farm for an Amendment
to the text of Chapter 21 of the Plymouth City Code, the Plymouth Zoning Ordinance to
allow a seasonal farmer's market and produce stand in the C-2 Zoning District.
Planner Rask gave an overview of the March 11, 1998 staff report.
Commissioner Ribbe asked if the City would be setting any kind of precedent for people
occupying street corners. Planner Rask replied that there haven't been any problems so
far, and the Interim Use Permit allows more control so that if there are problems, it can be
revoked. He explained with an Interim Use Permit, notice is sent to surrounding property
owners, and the application goes through Planning Commission and City Council for
review.
Commissioner Koehnen questioned if the wording "and similar items" in Subd. 2 is too
generic, and what would fall into that category. Planner Rask stated he was not sure what
other accessory type things they sell, but the applicant could address that. Director
Hurlburt noted that by requiring an Interim Use Permit, it gives the City the opportunity to
review applications on an individual basis.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Bill Griffith, representing the petitioner. Mr. Griffith stated
Untiedts has been in business for 27 years. They currently operate at the Knollwood Mall
and the Farmers Market. He stated that staff has created the mechanism that raises the bar
for a quality operation and the Interim Use Permit provides that opportunity. Mr. Griffith
stated that the Interim Use Permit can be revoked if there are concerns. Mr. Griffith
stated that "similar items" would cover gardening supplies.
Chairman Stulberg opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to
speak on the issue.
MOTION by Commissioner Stoebner, seconded by Commissioner Thompson
recommending approval of an Ordinance amending the Plymouth City Code, by amending
Chapter 21, C-2 (Neighborhood Commercial) Zoning District, and the Findings of Fact for
amending Section 21460 (C-2 , Neighborhood Commercial) of the Plymouth City Code.
Roll Call Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
APPROVED
Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #59
Chairman Stulberg called a recess at 11:00 p.m. and reconvened the meeting at 11:10 p.m.
G. ZAHL EQUIPMENT COMPANY FOR AMOCO OIL COMPANY (98013)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Zahl Equipment for a Conditional Use
Permit Amendment and Site Plan Amendment for the addition of two gas pumps and a
canopy extension at the Amoco Station located at 3855 Plymouth Boulevard.
Planner Lindahl gave an overview of the March 9, 1998 staff report.
Commissioner Stein asked if the canopy is to be extended. Planner Lindahl replied
affirmatively. Commissioner Stein questioned how this proposal fits into the City Center
guidelines. Planner Lindahl replied that this building was approved prior to the City
Center Plan, thus it is a lawful, non -conforming structure. She stated that the applicant
does maintain the landscape edge which is consistent with the new Kindercare facility.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Kevin McCormick, representing the petitioner. Mr.
McCormick stated that the only issue they have had any comments on is the lighting. He
said they are willing to take lights down if needed. They took a reading with a light meter,
which indicated some overflow on Plymouth Boulevard and County Road 9. They have
already ordered light shields, which prevents excess light shed. Mr. McCormick stated
that the lights on the canopy are recessed lights. He said that if there is a problem with the
recessed lights, they would have to switch to flat lenses.
Chairman Stulberg opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to
speak on the issue.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Thompson recommending
approval of a Site Plan Amendment and Conditional Use Permit Amendment for the
Amoco Station located at 3855 Plymouth Boulevard.
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner
to remove Condition #7. Commissioner Koehnen asked what the lights would be if the
condition is removed. Chairman Stulberg answered that the lights would be recessed
lights. Director Hurlburt noted the issue of glare should be addressed. Roll Call Vote. 5
Ayes. MOTION approved on a 5-1 Vote. (Commissioner Stein voted Nay.)
MOTION to Amend by Commissioner Stein, seconded by Commissioner Koehnen to
install flat lenses that have no glare.
MOTION to Amend the Amendment by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by
Commissioner Stoebner to require replacement with flat lenses, only if the glare proves to
be a problem.
APPROVED
Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #60
Commissioner Thompson noted that there have not been any problems so far.
Roll Call Vote on MOTION to Amend the Amendment. 4 Ayes. MOTION approved
on a 4-2 Vote. (Commissioner Stein and Chairman Stulberg voted Nay.)
Roll Call Vote on MOTION to Amend. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved on a 5-1 Vote.
Commissioner Stein voted Nay.)
Roll Call Vote on Main MOTION. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved on a 5-1 Vote.
Commissioner Stein voted Nay.)
H. HANS HAGEN HOMES (98016)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Hans Hagen Homes for an Interim Use
Permit to place 13,000 cubic feet of fill from the Plymouth Station site onto the Len Busch
Roses site located at 4045 Highway 101 North.
Planner Rask gave an overview of the March 9, 1998 staff report.
Commissioner Thompson asked if the work from this proposal will increase the runoff.
Planner Rask replied negatively, but other work proposed on the site will. Commissioner
Thompson asked if the water will be able to drain. Planner Rask stated that there will be
enough grade change to allow the water to drain.
Commissioner Stein asked where the haul route is. Planner Rask pointed it out on the
plans - gravel road to the current driveway.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Patrick Busch, representing the petitioner. Mr. Busch
stated that his only issue is the requirement for an easement. He stated that requiring the
easement is not related to the grading that is being done on this project. He commented
that he does not object to cleaning up the drainage issues, but requested that the
Commission remove the condition requiring an easement.
Assistant City Engineer Quanbeck commented that there is a concern with the history of
the work on the site, and the easement requirement is to ensure that the drainage issues
are resolved.
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Tim Stark of 3920 Yellowstone Lane. Mr. Stark stated he
would like to see some type of easement over the years, as he is concerned with the area
around the wetland. Mr. Stark stated that with the new greenhouse structures, there will
APPROVED
Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #61
be a lot of water coming from the roofs. Mr. Stark stated he wants to make sure that
water continues to flow through.
Commissioner Koehnen asked if Condition #18 means the easement is permanent.
Assistant City Engineer Quanbeck replied affirmatively.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Sam Ehreth of 18720
39th Avenue North. Mr. Erheth
stated that he has no problem with the activity, but is concerned with the water. He
suggested that any activity be observed for a year to see if the clogged culvert was the
culprit to past drainage issues.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
Mr. Busch stated they collect the runoff for the greenhouses and divert it to a culvert
away from the normal drainage pattern. Mr. Busch asked what past issues staff is
referring to. Assistant City Engineer Quanbeck stated that changes on the site were not
consistent with the original grading plan.
MOTION by Chairman Stulberg, seconded by Commissioner Stein recommending
approval of an Interim use Permit for Hans Hagen Homes for property located north of
Medina Road, east of Brockton Lane and west of County Road 101. Roll Call Vote. 6
Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. ELIM CARE, INC./ROTTLUND HOMES (98032)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Elim Care, Inc./Rottlund Homes for a
Sketch Plan review for Cornerstone Commons, a primarily senior housing development
located at the northeast corner of County Road 101 and Medina Road, south of Highway
55.
Planner Rask gave an overview of the March 10, 1998 staff report.
Commissioner Stein asked if the Leuer farm is currently guided industrial. Planner Rask
replied affirmatively.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Bob Dahl, representing Elim Care. Mr. Dahl stated that the
project is generating a great deal of interest. He commented that the wetlands will be a
big issue to resolve, but it is their intention to work with staff to meet the ordinance
criteria.
APPROVED
Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #62
Chairman Stulberg introduced Richard Palmiter, representing Rottlund Homes. Mr.
Palmiter commented that the sketch plan is an important step to get feedback from the
Commission relating to the proposed project.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Sean Carroll of 3470 Lawndale. Mr. Carroll stated that he
was glad to hear the Leuer property has been purchased. He said that providing a second
entrance to the east for the industrial property would be very helpful. Mr. Carroll
commented that he would not support a move to LA -4 to accommodate the housing. He
stated that the proposal was originally presented to the neighbors as a senior development.
Mr. Carroll said that he was concerned with the berming and appearance from Medina
Road. He said that the berming needs to be consistent with other adjacent industrial areas.
Chairman Stulberg stated that the sketch plan is a whole new project. Director Hurlburt
stated that the reguiding for LA -4 has nothing to do with the townhomes. She said that
changes were made in the comprehensive plan that do not allow structures with more than
12 units per building. Director Hurlburt explained that as any piece of land goes through
the development review, there are often major changes. The City needs to review each
application as it comes forward based on the current ordinances.
Mr. Caroll said a third of the towhome units are no longer for seniors and he wants people
aware of that fact.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Tom Fleming of 3340 Olive Lane North. Mr. Fleming
stated that he was pleased to hear that the industrial sites may be combined. He stated his
concern with truck traffic coming out onto Medina Road, as is it very difficult to see cars
going westbound on Medina Road.
Commissioner Ribbe asked if the services offered by Elim Care would be covered by
medical assistance. Mr. Dahl replied affirmatively.
Commissioner Thompson stated that he has supported the project from the beginning due
to the reason that senior housing is needed in Plymouth and it does not put a strain on the
school system. He stated his disappointment to see non -age restricted units that would
put a strain on the schools.
Mr. Dahl stated that his concern with the previous project was the area that bordered the
industrial, and he didn't have a solution for that until Rottlund suggested the non -age
restricted housing.
Commissioner Koehnen commented that the wetlands will be protected under the Wetland
Regulations. She stated that the proposal looks good, and the project would be a good
one for the Transitions Subcommittee to look at. Director Hurlburt stated that the
APPROVED
Planning Commission Minutes
March 17, 1998
Page #63
Transitions Subcommittee is currently inactive, and was not sure when they would meet
again. She said that they may reconvene if there is an issue to discuss.
Chairman Stulberg stated that what has been submitted in general looks fine. The sketch
plan should not anticipate variances from the wetland buffers. He suggested that the
applicant watch the density closely so they aren't trying to fit too much into the space
available. Also, they should be cognizant of the relationship between the number of
seniors and the non -age restricted units. The applicant should also look at the truck traffic
sensitivity coming out of the industrial area, and the buffering between the industrial area,
utilities, and Medina Road.
Commissioner Thompson asked what the target density is for LA -3 pertaining to the
Livable Communities Act. Director Hurlburt replied 6 to 12 units per acre. Chairman
Stulberg said to look at density after meeting all the setbacks and wetland buffering.
Planning Supervisor Senness commented that it would not meet the Livable Communities
Act for density. Director Hurlburt stated that the project would meet the Livable
Communities Act for other issues.
Commissioner Stein asked if a traffic study should be done. Director Hurlburt responded
that the traffic study was done as part of the EAW.
Commissioner Thompson stated that he didn't think there was anything wrong with the
proposed density.
Chairman Stulberg requested the proposal be passed along to the City Council with the
Commission's comments.
Director Hurlburt reminded Commissioners of the April 16th open house pertaining to
Northwest Plymouth.
Commissioner Thompson stated he may not be at the April
14th
meeting.
MOTION by Commissioner Thompson, seconded by Commissioner Stoebner to adjourn.
Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously. The meeting was adjourned at
12:20 a.m.