HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 10-27-1999Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
October 27, 1999
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chairman Mike Stulberg, Commissioners Allen Ribbe, John
Stoebner, Bob Stein, Kapila Bobra, Roger Berkowitz, and Sarah Reinhardt
MEMBERS ABSENT:
STAFF PRESENT: Community Development Director Anne Hurlburt, Planning
Supervisor Barbara Senness, Planner John Rask, City Engineer Dan Faulkner and
Clerical Supervisor Denise Hutt
1 Call To Order
2 Public Forum
3 Approval of Agenda
4 Approval of Minutes
MOTION by Commissioner Bobra, seconded by Commissioner Reinhardt to approve
the October 13, 1999 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION
approved unanimously. (Commissioner Berkowitz abstained.)
5 Consent Agenda
6 Public Hearings
A JANCO, INC. (99093)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Janco, Inc. for a preliminary plat, "Forster
Preserve Plat 4" for the creation of 21 single family lots, for property located at 4825
Deerwood Lane North.
Planner Rask gave an overview of the October 20, 1999 staff report.
Commissioner Reinhardt asked if the first phase would remove all of the buildings with
the exception of the retail building. Planner Rask replied that some of the buildings will
come out to accommodate the first phase of construction.
Commissioner Bobra asked what the purchase price of the homes would be. Chairman
Stulberg said that the question is not really appropriate for the Commission to ask, but the
applicant can answer the question if he wants to.
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October 27, 1999
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Chairman Stulberg introduced Tom Graham, the applicant. Mr. Graham stated that they
could've done more than what is being proposed, but they chose to honor the original
sketch plan. He said that the purchase price for this phase will be more than the previous
phases.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked what the plans are for the Forster business. Mr. Graham
replied that they have been looking for property in Plymouth near Highway 55, but the
business could end up more towards Medina.
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Mary Lewis of 5435 Deerwood Lane. Ms. Lewis said that
she doesn't object to more new homes in the area, but is concerned with the traffic flow
on Deerwood Lane and Old Rockford Road. She stated that if Deerwood Lane is
extended and joins up with Evergreen Lane, it will have an increased traffic flow. She
asked if there is anything that can be done to alleviate the increased traffic flow.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
City Engineer Faulkner stated that within a subdivision, it is better to have a looped road
rather than a cul-de-sac. He said that connecting Deerwood Lane with Evergreen Lane
would tend to evenly distribute the traffic. City Engineer Faulkner stated that Old
Rockford Road serves a collector function, with a 30 mph speed limit and a new all -way
stop at Evergreen Lane. He said that as more development occurs, the City is making the
road look more like an urban street, which should slow the traffic down. He said that
staff has talked about painting an on -street path along Old Rockford Road when the curb
and gutter is completely done.
Chairman Stulberg asked how much traffic would be generated by 21 single family
homes. City Engineer Faulkner replied that traffic studies assume 10 trips per day per
single family lot, which shouldn't cause any problems.
Ms. Lewis commented that the all -way stop sign has caused traffic to speed up. She
stated that she would be in favor of a on -street walking path. City Engineer Faulkner
agreed that stop signs tend to cause increased speed as vehicles leave the stop sign. He
added that he agreed to this particular all -way stop because of a sight distance problem.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked if there are any plans in the Comprehensive Plan to bring
Old Rockford Road up to urban standards. Director Hurlburt replied that it wouldn't be
included in the transportation plan, but rather included in the normal reconstruction or
maintenance process that the City goes through.
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Commissioner Reinhardt commented that she assumes that this development won't be
contributing to the affordable housing goals of the City. Director Hurlburt replied
affirmatively.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Berkowitz
recommending approval of a preliminary plat for Janco, Inc. for Forster Preserve Plat 4,
located at 4825 Deerwood Lane North. Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved
unanimously.
B HENNEPIN PARKS (99100)
Chairman Stulberg introduced the request by Hennepin Parks for a site plan and
conditional use permit for Eagle Lake Regional Park Recreation Area for property
located north of County Road 10 approximately 0.75 miles west of Highway 169.
Planner Rask gave an overview of the October 20, 1999 staff report.
Commissioner Reinhardt asked if Hennepin Parks owns the entire perimeter around Pike
Lake. Director Hurlburt said that there are some privately owned properties along the
west end of Pike Lake.
Commissioner Reinhardt asked if the trails around the park are going to connect to the
City trails. Planner Rask replied affirmatively.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked what is planned for Zachary Lane pertaining to access to
the site. Planner Rask replied that the fourth leg would be put in and the intersection
signalized for such.
Commissioner Bobra asked what percent of the total acres would be devoted to golf
course activities. Planner Rask responded that 53.7 acres of the 149 acres in the City of
Plymouth is designated for the golf course.
Commissioner Berkowitz commented that it would be helpful to have a clear map of the
layout of activities. Commissioner Reinhardt concurred that a better map should be
included in the packet before it goes to the City Council.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Margie Ostlund of Hennepin Parks. Ms. Ostlund
presented a colored map of the site showing the layout of the activities. She said that the
signalized intersection at Zachary Lane was previously planned and is in place, just not
activated yet.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked if access to the site is limited to Hennepin Parks patrons.
Ms. Ostlund replied that all Hennepin Parks facilities are open to the public.
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Commissioner Bobra asked if the operation costs will be covered by the user fees or will
it be a burden on the taxpayers. Ms. Ostlund responded that the proposed park will be an
enterprise facility, and the user fees will cover capital costs, operating costs and any other
improvements. She stated that the Hennepin Parks Board feels that the proposal will be a
successful enterprise.
Chairman Stulberg opened the public hearing.
Chairman Stulberg introduced a letter dated October 27, 1999 from William Gimble of
5405 Orleans Lane North #1.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Nancy Sibley of 6005 Goldenrod Lane. Ms. Sibley stated
she is extremely nervous about the lights that will be put in at the proposed park. She
said that she lives in a very quiet neighborhood and is upset to hear about the applicant's
request for a variance to allow them to begin mowing at 5:30 a.m.. She said that the
residents aren't allowed to begin mowing, so why should the proposed golf course be
allowed to do so. Ms. Sibley asked who will be allowed to golf at the facility. Ms.
Sibley commented that she would like to see the natural beauty of the area preserved.
Chairman Stulberg introduced George Witzschke of 11150 57th Avenue North. Mr.
Witzschke stated that he is representing the Deerhaven community. He stated that they
are concerned with the noise since they will be so close to the maintenance facility. He
asked if there have been any provisions made for noise suppression along Bass Lake
Road.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Jan Nelson of 1225 Ives Lane. Ms. Nelson stated that
there is a need for a facility for entry level golf for adults and children. She said that
Hennepin Parks runs a first class operation such as Baker National and Glen Lake.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Claire Melstrom of 11605 61st Avenue North. Ms.
Melstrom said that she doesn't want the noise variance granted. She stated that 5:30 a.m.
is just too early in the morning to listen to lawn mowers. She commented that people
chose to live around the other golf courses, and that they were here before this proposed
golf course.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Patty Anderson of 12130 61st Avenue North. Ms.
Anderson stated that the proposal is an exciting opportunity for the City of Plymouth.
She commented that the proposal is a unique facility being that it focuses on learning.
She said that the facility will not be a tax burden on the City. Ms. Anderson stated that
Hennepin Parks are good stewards of their land.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Tom Reynolds of 11624 Red Fox Drive. Mr. Reynolds
stated that he likes parks, but objects to the driving range and golf course. Mr. Reynolds
stated that the golf course will cause fertilizer runoff into Pike Lake. He asked who
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among the Commissioners has ever walked through the area. He said that the
Commission can't evaluate the proposal if they haven't walked through the area. Mr.
Reynolds asked who will operate the driving range. He wanted to know if the Army
Corps of Engineers has been notified of the proposal. He asked how the affect of the
fertilizer runoff will be minimized. Mr. Reynolds said that if Hennepin Parks needs
money, they should just sell off a portion of the land to pay for the park, which would be
cheaper and less environmentally damaging. He asked what Hennepin Parks' survey
results were pertaining to a park.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Evelyn Norton of 6203 Eagle Lake Drive. Ms. Norton
stated that Hennepin Parks has an excellent system and the proposal seems to offer some
interesting activities. She stated that she is concerned about the wildlife, and it is not
clear about the implications of the water runoff Ms. Norton said that this is only a
discussion of Phase I of the plan, and she is concerned with future development moving
in on the lake. She said that she is concerned with accessibility and privacy on Eagle
Lake. She stated that she is also concerned about noise and lights from the proposed
facility.
Chairman Stulberg introduced Donna Eichten of 5840 Deerwood Lane North. Ms.
Eichten stated that she is concerned about the lights. She commented that she is also
against the proposed noise ordinance variance.
Chairman Stulberg closed the public hearing.
Planner Rask presented the proposed lighting plan. He explained that the zoning
ordinance prohibits lighting in excess of 0.5 -foot candles at the center line of any abutting
street and at the lot line of any abutting property. He stated that no where along the south
or east property line would the light exceed the 0.5 foot candle. He said that the applicant
is proposing to use a fixture that is commonly used on athletic fields, but that the light
would be directed more accurately than a standard fixture. Further, Hennepin Parks is
proposing a shorter pole to reduce light impacts. Planner Rask stated that the residents of
Pike Lake Woods wouldn't be able to directly see any lights from the facility.
Pertaining to the water runoff and drainage plan, Planner Rask stated that staff did review
that as part of the EAW, which looked closely at the impacts. He stated that the existing
phosphorus runoff from the site would increase, but by treating the runoff, the amount of
phosphorus export to Pike Lake would decrease.
Chairman Stulberg noted that the City Council determined that an Environmental Impact
Study was not needed. Planner Rask stated that the Environmental Assessment
Worksheet was sent to the Army Corps of Engineers along with a whole litany of other
governmental agencies. He said that the City did not receive any comments from the
Army Corps of Engineers pertaining to the EAW.
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Pertaining to questions raised about the facility, Ms. Ostlund stated that patron cards will
not be sold. She said that they do have discounts for Hennepin Parks users, and that the
facility will be open to everyone. She said that Hennepin Parks District staff will operate
the facility.
Ms. Ostlund stated that it isn't part of Hennepin Parks' mission to sell off their park land,
but rather to provide outdoor recreational activities, enhanced by an outdoor setting. She
said that the facility is completely self-supporting.
Ms. Ostlund said that she doesn't believe property values will decrease, but rather the
City Assessing staff stated that normally property located near such facilities tend to
increase in property values. Ms. Ostlund stated that if damage is incurred by surrounding
property owners due to golf balls, they have insurance to cover such damages.
Ms. Ostlund stated that out of 230 acres, 53 acres will be for the golf course. She said
that Hennepin Parks has more hard surface area in their other facilities versus what will
be in the proposed facility. She said that this area is designated for a regional park for
active recreational development, not as a park reserve. Ms. Ostlund explained that a
regional park provides for active recreational development coupled with areas of park
reserve for wildlife habitats. Ms. Ostlund stated that there will be a slight reduction in the
existing wildlife, but that they will be creating other habitats, such as for song birds.
Ms. Ostlund stated that future development along the northern area below Eagle Lake
will include a picnic area, boat launch, parking, fishing piers, and eventually a swimming
beach.
Ms. Ostlund said that the Board of Commissioners heard from people on both sides of the
issues, but they voted to move ahead with the project. She commented that the City of
Plymouth survey showed that 50% of the resident households included golfers. She said
that 49% of the residents surveyed indicated that they were in favor of the golf course,
without even knowing the details of the proposal, and that 29% were opposed and 23%
did not know or refused to answer.
Regarding questions pertaining to noise and the maintenance facility, Mr. Keith
Greeninger stated that the noise from the facility will fall within the ordinance guidelines
and will be minimal along the south side of the property, as it is screened with foliage.
Mr. Greeninger stated that they would begin mowing on the internal portion of the site,
beginning with the first hole. He said that the golfers begin about 6:30 a.m. and they
need to mow ahead of them, otherwise it would be an all -day process to get the mowing
done. He said that the greens are mowed six to seven days a week. Commissioner Bobra
asked if they couldn't mow in the evenings. Mr. Greeninger replied that the golfers
prefer a smooth surface in the morning and that people golf until dark. If they wait to
mow when the people are done golfing, they would then run into the noise ordinance
problem at the end of the day.
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Commissioner Bobra asked if there is any type of equipment to muffle or reduce the
noise made from the lawnmowers. Mr. Greeninger stated that the lawn mowing
equipment is not that noisy.
Commissioner Reinhardt asked if the noise variance is just for mowing the golf areas
only. Planner Rask replied that it is for mowing in general. The proposed noise variance
application indicates that they would start mowing in the internal portion of the site.
Planner Rask stated that any operation of any equipment would be a violation of the
ordinance. He said that the applicant has to try to minimize the noise and to provide a
plan as to how they would accomplish such. Director Hurlburt stated that the plan is very
specific as to what will be allowed.
Commissioner Berkowitz reiterated that the noise ordinance variance would be for
mowing in the morning and to pick up golf balls until 11:00 p.m. He asked the applicant
why they don't go with electric carts to pick up golf balls. Mr. Greeninger stated that gas
powered golf carts are needed because they run for longer periods. Electric carts used on
the course are designed to shut on and off and consequently they don't run for long
periods of time.
Relating to water quality questions, Mr. John Barten stated that they will be constructing
six nutrient detention basins on the site. He said that the site was originally agriculture
land and fairly fertile runoff from the site is carrying residual phosphorus with it. He said
that with the detention ponds, there will be less phosphorus and other pollutants from the
runoff than there is now. Mr. Barten commented that urban lawns produce more
phosphorus runoff than golf courses.
All Planning Commissioners indicated that they have walked through the site.
Commissioner Berkowitz asked if there was any thought given to an alternative location
for the maintenance facility. Ms. Ostlund stated that they looked at other locations, but
the proposed location would have the least amount of impact on the trees, and it is
bermed and screened from the adjacent residences.
MOTION by Commissioner Ribbe, seconded by Commissioner Reinhardt
recommending approval of a site plan and conditional use permit for Hennepin Parks for
Eagle Lake Regional Park located north of the "T" intersection of Bass Lake Road and
Zachary Lane.
Commissioner Ribbe commented that he lived by site for 13 years. He stated that the
majority of the households in Plymouth have someone that plays golf. He said that the
wildlife in the area have always been resilient with development that has been going on.
Commissioner Ribbe said that he doesn't think that a golf course will damage the
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environment, and that Hennepin Parks does a good job of preserving nature and
enhancing it.
Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
7 Other Business
MOTION by Commissioner Stoebner, seconded by Commissioner Berkowitz to cancel
the December 22 Planning Commission meeting. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved
unanimously.
Director Hurlburt said that November 15 is now a special City Council meeting to discuss
the land use element of the comprehensive plan. She stated that the next joint meeting
will be on December 14.
MOTION by Commissioner Bobra, seconded by Commissioner Reinhardt to adjourn.
Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously. The meeting was adjourned at 8:53
p.m.