HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 10-05-2005Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
October 5, 2005
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Frank Weir, Commissioners E.J. Clyman, Nancy Franke -
Wilson, Kathleen Murdock, Melissa Musliner, Sarah Anderson and James Holmes
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Community Development Director Anne Hurlburt, Planning
Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Marie Darling, City Engineer Ron Quanbeck,
and Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Holmes, seconded by Commissioner Musliner to approve the
October 5, 2005 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE SEPTEMBER 21, 2005, PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Anderson, seconded by Commissioner Holmes, to approve
the September 21, 2005 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION
approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. SWAN DEVELOPMENT, LLC. (2005107)
Chair Weir introduced the request by Swan Development, LLC. for a planned unit
development amendment to allow garages in excess of 1,000 square feet for the single-
family homes in Seven Greens and Seven Greens 2nd Addition on properties located at the
northeast corner of Schmidt Lake Road and Vicksburg Lane North.
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the September 27, 2005 staff report.
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Commissioner Holmes asked what defines a garage, especially on the lower level of a
house.
Senior Planner Darling said typically if the area would allow for the storage of motor
vehicles it would be considered a garage. She said there are some lower level areas that
have been approved for storage with a human -sized door. Senior Planner Darling said
some people have also used the area under the garage for a swimming pool or sport court.
Commissioner Anderson asked, with the size of these lots, would there be enough room for
a boat to travel between the lots to storage on a lower level.
Senior Planner Darling responded that the builder would have to locate the house to allow
for that and added that an extremely big boat would be difficult.
Chair Weir introduced Curt Swanson, President of Swan Development. Mr. Swanson said
he is happy with the way the Seven Greens PUD has been coming together. Mr. Swanson
said he was not aware of the exact ordinance when doing the PUD a few yrs, ago, and
assumed you could put a pre -stressed concrete floor in a garage to allow for a lower level
garage. Mr. Swanson said there is a house in the neighborhood next to Seven Greens that
has one, so it would not be inconsistent with the neighborhood. He said allowing the
garage below to help provide more storage of winter and lawn items and bikes, etc., helps
keep the front of the house with less garage. Mr. Swanson said he would probably keep the
garage door to 9 feet for architectural control. He said regardless of the garage door size,
he does not see it as anything going against the integrity of what they do in the
neighborhood.
Chair Weir asked Mr. Swanson if he has read and agrees with the resolution.
Mr. Swanson responded affirmatively.
Commissioner Anderson noted that the resolution states the garage could be placed in the
rear or side and asked Mr. Swanson what is the intent.
Mr. Swanson responded that the majority of the garages would be in the rear. He said on a
corner lot, this could potentially occur but it would be a rare corner lot that would have a
walk out level.
Chair Weir opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak on
the item.
Commissioner Anderson said her only concern is getting items into the garage on the lower
level. She said if that presents a problem or a dispute in the future, the neighborhood
association would have to discuss that issue. She said she supports the proposal.
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MOTION by Commissioner Wilson, seconded by Commissioner Holmes to approve the
request by Swan Development, LLC. for a planned unit development amendment to allow
garages in excess of 1,000 square feet for the single-family homes in Seven Greens and
Seven Greens 2nd Addition on properties located at the northeast corner of Schmidt Lake
Road and Vicksburg Lane North. Roll Call Vote. 7 Ayes. Motion passed.
B. LIFESTYLE PROPERTIES. (2005115)
Chair Weir introduced the request by Lifestyle Properties for rezoning, preliminary plat,
site plan, conditional use permit, interim use permit and variance to allow the construction
of thirteen multiple -family buildings to be called the "Villas of Bass Lake Creek" for
property located at the southwest corner of the intersection of Nathan Lane and Bass Lake
Rd. (County Road 10).
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the September 30, 2005 staff report.
Commissioner Wilson asked for a snapshot of what could be built across Nathan Lane.
Senior Planner Darling said it is guided Commercial Office and it could be zoned for
Office or Business Campus.
Commissioner Wilson asked if there would be height restrictions on these commercial
buildings.
Senior Planner Darling responded that the height restriction would likely be 45 feet but the
districts allow buildings in excess of that height with a conditional use permit.
Commissioner Murdock asked to review the changes in the number of units and parking
spaces from previous plans.
Senior Planner Darling said the applicant started with 156 units, then reduced the number
to 144 and this proposal reduces it to 136. The four surface parking lots would have 86
spaces. Senior Planner Darling said previous applications had 169 and 139 surface parking
spaces, respectively.
Chair Weir introduced the applicant, Bill Gleason. Mr. Gleason said he took suggestions
from previous Planning Commission meetings and incorporated them into the project. Mr.
Gleason said the most significant change is the rezoning to RMF -3 for the transition to the
single-family residences and he lowered the buildings in the RMF -3 area to two stories.
He said he originally looked at just lowering the height of some of the buildings but staff
suggested the property be rezoned to RMF -3. Mr. Gleason said with the 3/3 vote at the last
Planning Commission meeting, the majority of the complaints he heard was the transition
to single family. He said there are some townhomes and detached townhomes bordering
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the property, and he said four buildings were lowered to accommodate some of that
transition. Mr. Gleason said substantial wetlands and trees would remain. Mr. Gleason
said the height on the 5th building bordering RMF -3 townhomes was lowered also. He said
they reduced parking spaces as the direction was not to create a lot of excess parking if not
necessary. Mr. Gleason said there would be some screening and additional plantings to
screen parking areas from homes adjacent to it. Mr. Gleason said based on studies, the
type of buyer envisioned is not someone who is going to be in rush hour traffic, and would
minimally impact the turn lane issue which exists now. Mr. Gleason said they have tried to
keep the units as affordable as possible, but with density guidelines it is hard to meet the
Met Council's guidelines for affordable housing. He stated the cost of the units would be
in the low $200's. Mr. Gleason concluded that this is a good project and he knows there
are some road issues, but it is not the responsibility of this project to solve those problems.
Commissioner Clyman asked what the average square foot is for the condos.
Mr. Gleason responded the range would vary a bit but would be in the 1,600 square foot
range.
Commissioner Clyman asked what percentage of the units in the 3 -story buildings would
be in the lower $200,000 price.
Mr. Gleason said all of the units. He said the RMF -3 units would be the same size but
higher in price due to absorption of costs.
Commissioner Clyman said that he personally thought more young single families would
be purchasing these units.
Mr. Gleason said the problem would be parking which would not accommodate that type
of buyer.
Chair Weir asked about their experience with this type of development and what
percentage are seniors or young couples.
Mr. Gleason stated that their projects are 99 percent seniors. They have found that young,
single women have bought units probably because it is quieter and more secure. Mr.
Gleason said this project is more prohibitive than their other projects and could not think of
any young couples ever purchasing one of their units.
Commissioner Clyman asked if the interior of the buildings would be designed for seniors.
Mr. Gleason said all hallways would be built for wheelchair access, and the doorways,
hallways and units are handicap adaptable. He said there would be elevators in the
buildings.
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Commissioner Musliner asked about the preservation of wetlands.
Senior Planner Darling said there would be no alteration to the two main wetland basins.
The wetland finger that would be filled connects the two wetlands.
Mr. Gleason noted that there is an issue with the drainage of the pond built by an adjacent
townhome project. Mr. Gleason said that he had told staff that when they grade, they
would be willing to correct that issue so drainage would flow properly again.
Chair Weir asked Mr. Gleason if he agreed with the conditions in the resolutions.
Mr. Gleason said he is in agreement and added that they have spent more time on this
project than any other one they have ever done.
Chair Weir opened the public hearing.
Chair Weir introduced Michele LeClaire, 5680 Trenton Lane N. Ms. LeClaire said the
scaled back development is heading in the right direction, but encroaches heavily on the
wetlands. She said drainage from one pond to another is important, and she is concerned
that the project would alter this. Ms. LeClaire said she is concerned about increased
population density and traffic as they already are surrounded by three RMF -2 or RMF -3
developments. She said she has concerns about the building height and the grades above
the water line. Ms. LeClaire said she does not want people looking into her bathroom. Ms.
LeClaire said the transition to the single family homes was addressed in part, however,
looking over the roof of one building to another does not really allow an adequate
transition.
Chair Weir introduced Ron Lustman, 5664 Trenton Lane N. Mr. Lustman said his property
abuts directly to this proposed development. He said one proposed two-story unit would be
standing in water today if placed there. Mr. Lustman asked why we have what appears to
be vehement opposition and he is seeing the same footprint from Day One. Mr. Lustman
said there have been some minor modifications but it is still the same project, going in the
same direction, doing the same thing and he asked why we are still talking about this
project. Mr. Lustman said there are five homeowners' associations voicing opposition to
this project. He said Jerry Unger, a neighbor who spoke at previous meetings, is not
satisfied that water issues have been resolved. Mr. Lustman said closing drainage ditches
to impede runoff still needs to be addressed. He said to look over a two-story house at
three-story project housing is not something the neighborhood wants. Mr. Lustman said he
needed clarification on what is actually being built in this wetland so he can sell his house
before something is built. Mr. Lustman wondered if the developer disclosed this proposed
project to the people who bought townhomes in the Bass Lake Villas. Mr. Lustman said
this project does not meet the spirit of the Comprehensive Plan and asked if that is a living
plan or just a piece of paper. Mr. Lustman concluded that if the project is approved it
would be a legacy of a poor planning process.
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Chair Weir introduced Daonna Start, 5355 Union Terrace Lane N. Ms. Start said she is
Co -President of the Ponds at Bass Creek and represents 72 homes. Ms. Start respectfully
requested that the Ponds at Bass Creek petition submitted on July 20, 2005 (and the
additions of August 17, 2005), petitions from other surrounding groups, and all previous
e-mails and correspondence be recorded as part of this proceeding and decision. Ms. Start
reiterated previous arguments that there is no RMF -4 in any of the surrounding area. She
showed a photo of the current property and a comparison with a potential view of what 3.5
stories would look like. Ms. Start said there would be a sea of cars and parking lots, and
asked if you built your dream home, how would you feel if you saw this out your back
window. Ms. Start said there are concerns about traffic, especially during rush hour. She
said with the addition of 136 units, traffic will expand and roads will need to expand. Ms.
Start asked if there is funding available to do that. Ms. Start said under the Comprehensive
Plan, an RMF -4 development should have transit within `/2 mile walking distance of the
neighborhood. Ms. Start said there is a bus stop at Nathan Lane and Bass Lake Road but
that bus goes to the Prudential building. She said there is no neighborhood shopping and
the closest grocery store is Cub Foods at Nathan Lane and Rockford Road. Ms. Start said
if this development is truly for seniors, it certainly does not qualify for RMF -4 in the spirit
intended in the Comprehensive Plan. Ms. Start said the building height is to be 45 feet and
her calculations indicate a building height of 53 feet. Ms. Start asked for how buildings are
measured because this is clearly confusing.
Director Hurlburt explained that with a pitched roof we do not measure to the peak of the
roof but measure to the average on the pitch. She said this is consistent for all building
measurements. Director Hurlburt said when buildings are partially below ground, there is a
different measurement.
Planning Manager Senness read the definition from the Zoning Ordinance for calculating
building height.
Ms. Start asked if the average height of this roof then is 10 feet.
Director Hurlburt said if it is 20 feet from eave to the top of the ridge and the roof has a
consistent slope, that would be measured as 10 feet.
Ms. Start said that she is an amateur, but the Comprehensive Plan says a 45 -foot maximum
and the reality is 55 feet. Ms. Start said the Comprehensive Plan should be changed for the
residents, as clearly it will look like 55 feet.
Director Hurlburt clarified that height is defined by the Zoning Ordinance not the
Comprehensive Plan. Director Hurlburt explained that this is consistent with how structure
height is measured in zoning districts. She said these structures would meet the
requirements. Director Hurlburt said perceptions and perspective are more subjective and
visual impacts are different than measuring height.
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Ms. Start said she is concerned about an increase in crime. She concluded that they would
be much more comfortable with condominiums with lower height that would meet the
RMF -3 zoning. She asked that the commissioners not give undeveloped property that is
zoned commercial more preference than the neighborhood already there.
Chair Weir introduced Chuck Beisner, 5650 Trenton Lane N. Mr. Beisner said it has taken
this developer so long because it is a bad proposal. He said his experience is with cell
phone towers; they learned how to do it correctly and design a tower so it fits. Mr. Beisner
said his major concern is the RMF -4 designation mainly as it pertains to height. Mr.
Beisner said he thought there would be single family or a few attached units on this
property, not an apartment -style development that would look exactly like his first
apartment, even though these would be owned. Mr. Beisner said he is concerned about
wetlands and said on an 18 -acre undeveloped piece of land, you should be able to come up
with a plan that does not need variances. Mr. Beisner said due to the amount of wetland in
the area with a creek running through it and multiple ponds, he is concerned about flow
and effect on wetlands. Mr. Beisner concurred with other neighbors' comments. Mr.
Beisner said the previous proposal had a one-story building behind him and now he has a
two-story building. Mr. Beisner said he doesn't know how that helps with transition.
Chair Weir introduced David Hanson, 5660 Trenton Lane N. Mr. Hanson concurred with
Chuck Beisner's comments and also the wetland issues previously discussed by Jerry
Unger. Mr. Hanson discussed the NURP pond proposed adjacent to Bass Creek and said
with last night's rain, everything will go right into Bass Creek with no settling. He
reiterated that there is no transit or retail nearby. Mr. Hanson said maybe the highest
percent of occupants would be seniors, but the next buyers might rent as these units are not
limited to ownership. Mr. Hanson said the whole nature of the neighborhood can change
dramatically and said he is concerned about crime issues. Mr. Hanson said he does not feel
right about this proposal.
Chair Weir introduced Jim Backer, 5694 Trenton Lane N. Mr. Backer said the intersection
at Bass Lake Road and Nathan Lane is a problem and if the City goes ahead with this
project, there is an obligation to bring the intersection up to what it should be and add in
and out lanes. Mr. Backer said there is nothing in the area that is 3 stories in height. He
said the commercial uses and Boston Scientific are only two-story buildings. Mr. Backer
reviewed elevation plans and said the street level on the northeast end is 910 feet and the
garage on the northeast building is 912 feet.
Chair Weir introduced Francis Hanson, 5660 Trenton Lane N. Ms. Hanson said the last
proposal showed a one-story building, which was going in the right direction. She said she
was surprised to come back and see the building butting to her home is a two-story with
tuck under garage. Ms. Hanson said she is encouraged to see reduced parking but her
house is only 45 feet from the two-story building. Ms. Hanson said she was led to believe
by her realtor, not developer, that there would be private living so they designed their
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house with all windows at the back, but now potentially six families could be looking at
her house. Ms. Hanson said she appreciates the time put in and knows Plymouth cares
about presentation of buildings. She said she escaped her country at age 15, and now at
age 50 finally gets to buy her dream home. Ms. Hanson said the neighbors are a reality and
this is a proposal and respectfully asked that something be built that would blend into the
neighborhood. Ms. Hanson asked if a "no rental" clause could be added, and said as
density goes up, crime goes up.
Chair Weir introduced Colleen Schmaltz, 5365 Union Terrace Lane N. Mr. Schmaltz said
she loves her neighborhood, the variety of people, and the homes. She said she wants
people to understand they are not concerned about senior housing - but that the condos
should be dedicated to seniors. She said her interior design firm specializes in senior
housing and said services such as beauty shops, community meeting rooms and a club area
could be added. Ms. Schmaltz said there is isolation with 13 buildings and no sidewalks or
walking paths connecting to the neighborhood. Ms. Schmaltz said her major concern is
that it is not a dedicated, viable, senior housing project. She said this is an amoeba, and
does not speak to the needs of the seniors.
Chair Weir introduced William Gimble, 5405 Orleans Lane N. Mr. Gimble stated he has
lived in the Cardinal Ridge townhomes since 1989. Mr. Gimble said the infrastructure and
road is a concern. They were promised the road would be upgraded since 1990, when
Nathan Lane went through, but it has never happened. There is a safety issue at Nathan
Lane and Bass Lake Road accommodating trucks on this road. Mr. Gimble said if the
development is not designated as a senior place, it wouldn't stay one. He said Cardinal
Ridge was originally seniors; now there are younger families, and rental units they are
trying to get rid of.
Chair Weir closed the public hearing.
Director Hurlburt asked about the impact on drainage patterns from filling the drainage
ditch.
City Engineer Quanbeck stated the wetland in the middle of the development currently
drains through an overland drainage way. The developer would install a piped outlet that
would be direct to the storm water quality pond on the northwest corner of the
development which would meet City and watershed standards to control discharge post -
development.
Director Hurlburt clarified that the recommendation by the Planning Commission is for the
application before them tonight. She said there are not multiple options. Director Hurlburt
said that the e-mails and petitions received earlier will be added to the public record. She
responded to questions regarding Nathan Lane and Bass Lake Road and said there is no
expansion needed for this project. Director Hurlburt said the long range transportation
studies assumed this area would develop and the road capacities are there. She added that
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there may be some changes in signals in the future at Nathan Lane and Bass Lake Rd.
Director Hurlburt stated when the roadway changes are needed, that would be the City's
and County's responsibility - not this development's.
Commissioner Clyman asked about the Cardinal Ridge development and traffic on Nathan
Lane rather than a frontage road.
Director Hurlburt said some units are occupied and some are rented. She said there is an
existing truck traffic issue the City is aware of. Director Hurlburt said the roadway issue
will be addressed when the adjacent commercial land develops, because typically when
land develops, the right-of-way could be given to the City as part of the development.
Commissioner Anderson asked if there is another route for the truck traffic.
Director Hurlburt responded there is another route but it is more circuitous. She added this
is a State Aid road and the City can't place restrictions.
Commissioner Anderson asked if there are weight restrictions for Nathan Lane.
City Engineer Quanbeck said there are no weight restrictions and said they have worked
with businesses to try to get drivers to go the other way, but there are time the drivers do
not listen.
Director Hurlburt said the City cannot regulate a property to be non -rental and cannot place
development restrictions on the type of ownership of a property.
Commissioner Murdock asked about the feasibility of this development as a dedicated
senior project. She said the layout and design seem geared to the senior buyer.
Mr. Gleason said one of the 15 projects they have designed was age -restricted. A situation
arose where grandparents were not allowed to take in a grandchild. Mr. Gleason said
rather than forcing a city ordinance for a development to be age -restricted, homeowners
need to have flexibility. Mr. Gleason said their studies indicate there is not a necessity for
age restriction. He said there is a growing market for this age group, and there are more
negatives than positives for age restrictions. Mr. Gleason addressed the rental issue and
said there have been situations where investors will buy properties for rental use and there
have been restrictions on that type of buyer. Mr. Gleason said in his estimation, Cardinal
Ridge was not designed specifically for seniors as they have double garages, stairs, etc.
Commissioner Clyman asked about transit and said he is curious if there is a transit hub at
Prudential.
Senior Planner Darling said it is a reverse commute line, designed to bring employees from
Minneapolis to industrial areas and then ultimately to Prudential. She said this bus service
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has filled a need in the industrial community for years. Senior Planner Darling
acknowledged there is no shopping in the area, but this was a known issue when land use
was designated LA -3 in 2001.
Director Hurlburt added because there is commercial -guided property yet to be developed
in this area, some additional neighborhood services could develop. She said there would
be the same Dial -a -Ride service for this property as in other parts of the City.
Commissioner Musliner asked about the property line distance of 100 feet from the nearest
home.
Senior Planner Darling said she found that the closest buildings, structure to structure, were
100 feet to the closest single family home. Director Hurlburt said the homeowner was
measuring from the property line, not from the house.
Commissioner Musliner said this is a hard decision but there is always a risk when you
have a home next to vacant land. She said she can see the proposal fits somewhat with the
commercial and highway, but not from the townhomes on the south looking at a tall
building with a taller one behind it. She also said the building on the north side of Bass
Lake Rd. is three stories.
Commissioner Murdock thanked everyone for their input. She said she appreciates the e-
mails and correspondence and said the Commissioners do try to put themselves in the
shoes of the neighbors and residents. Commissioner Murdock said she was a dissent vote
in August because she was concerned about transitions and height. Commissioner
Murdock said she believes the applicant has satisfied those concerns and is comfortable
with the proposal at this time.
Commissioner Holmes thanked the citizenry for their passion, discussion, time and effort.
Commissioner Holmes said there is only one variance request moving the sidewalk out of
the right-of-way. He said they are asking for nothing out of the ordinary that any other
developer would ask for, given the parcel and the land. Commissioner Holmes said he
continually wrestles with the "not in my backyard" aspect of things, and said there is a
finite line where your back yard ends and some else's back yard begins and their property
rights begin. Commissioner Holmes said he reviewed the core request and sees no grounds
the Planning Commission should not approve the request and he would be voting in favor.
Chair Weir said if you don't own the property, you have limited input in its development.
It is the right of the property owner to develop as they see fit, and if it fits in with rules and
regulations of the City, the Planning Commission does not have a lot of choice to vote
against it. Chair Weir said he would vote in support of the project.
Commissioner Clyman thanked residents for their community involvement and
participating in the process. Commissioner Clyman said the land use study identified the
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zoning best used for the area, the best opportunities to achieve good land use, least traffic
impact, and affordable housing. He said they are now looking at a transition that lends
itself to the affordable housing component, and commended the City for looking for
opportunities to bring affordable housing. Commissioner Clyman said there are not a lot of
options for affordable housing and this is the only recent proposal that has come close. He
said the commercial development on the corner might in the long run have a positive
impact on traffic flow. Commissioner Clyman concluded that the transition and traffic
issues are met, but the southwest corner of the development is murky. Commissioner
Clyman said the majority of points are being met and he would support the plan.
Commissioner Wilson said she concurred with Commissioner Musliner. She said she has
driven in the area during rush hour and tried to view the proposal from a landowner's point
of view. Commissioner Wilson said one of the things that has frustrated her is that the
Planning Commission is advisory and they don't have a lot of discretion. She said she
can't get past the RMF -4 zoning. Commissioner Wilson said with the 3 -story buildings
and that much density - regardless if people own - it looks like an apartment and she would
be voting against the proposal. Commissioner Wilson said she appreciates people coming
out to voice their opinions.
Commissioner Anderson said she has struggled with this proposal, and also voted against it
before. She said she has visited the site and tried to put herself in their shoes.
Commissioner Anderson said she reviewed the history for the entire development and said
she saw all the neighbors' homes being protested by people before them. Commissioner
Anderson said every time a proposal is reviewed she looks for a balance of the property
owner's rights and the adjacent property owners' rights. She said with the last proposal she
did not feel the proper balance was there, but now the owner has made a better transition.
Commissioner Anderson said everyone would like it to remain a wetland, but the property
owner has the right to develop this land and he has come a long ways in making this an
attractive addition to the neighborhood. Commissioner Anderson said she would support
this proposal.
Commissioner Clyman added as a City and community we need to take a hard look at ways
to redirect truck traffic in this area.
Commissioner Musliner agreed with the Commission Wilson regarding their level of
discretion, and said if this proposal were across Bass Lake, she would support it, but would
not support this.
MOTION by Commissioner Holmes, seconded by Commissioner Anderson, to approve the
request by Lifestyle Properties for rezoning, preliminary plat, site plan, conditional use
permit, interim use permit and variance to allow the construction of thirteen multiple -
family buildings to be called the "Villas of Bass Lake Creek" for property located at the
southwest corner of the intersection of Nathan Lane and Bass Lake Rd. (County Road 10).
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Roll Call Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved. Commissioners Wilson and Musliner
voting Nay.
7. NEW BUSINESS
Director Hurlburt reminded citizens that the City of Plymouth is updating the
Comprehensive Plan and that meetings would be held on October 24th and October 26th to
obtain citizen ideas on land use development that will be taken to the City Council in
November.
8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Commissioner Holmes, seconded by Commissioner Wilson, to adjourn the
meeting at 9:28 p.m.