HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 10-18-2006Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
October 18, 2006
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Holmes, Commissioners Melissa Musliner, Karl
Neset, Kathleen Murdock, Frank Weir, E. J. Clyman and Sarah Anderson
MEMBERS ABSENT: None.
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Senior Planner Shawn Drill,
Senior Planner Marie Darling, Planner Joshua Doty, Public Works Director Doran Cote
and Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Anderson, to approve the
October 18, 2006 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE OCTOBER 4, 2006 PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Murdock, to approve the
October 4, 2006 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
B. PLYMOUTH-WAYZATA YOUTH BASEBALL ASSOCIATION (2006099)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by the Plymouth -Wayzata Youth Baseball
Association to approve a site plan amendment to construct a multipurpose park building
with restrooms, a concession area, and a press box at Greenwood Park located at 18005
Medina Road. Chair Holmes said there was a revised resolution regarding lighting at the
park structure.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Musliner, to approve the
request, with the revised resolution, by the Plymouth -Wayzata Youth Baseball Association
for a site plan amendment to construct a multipurpose park building with restrooms, a
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concession area, and a press box at Greenwood Park located at 18005 Medina Road. Vote.
7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. HOLLY TROMBLEY (2006074)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Holly Trombley for a preliminary plat and
variances for "Duchaine Woods" for two single family lots for property located at 17815
10th Avenue North.
Planner Doty gave an overview of the October 9, 2006 staff report.
Commissioner Anderson asked to see the homes adjacent to the property.
Planner Doty reviewed an aerial photo showing the proposed houses would be set back a
little further than the existing home.
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Holly Trombley, 10245 Quaker Lane, Maple
Grove. Ms. Trombley said she was present on behalf of her parents, Gerald and Carmen
DuChaine, owners of the property.
Chair Holmes opened the public hearing.
Chair Holmes introduced Scott Rusten, 17725 10th Avenue north. Mr. Rusten said he lives
to the east of the property and is concerned the proposed house on the south side of the lot
would be visible from his back yard. Mr. Rusten asked if anything can be done to preserve
a forward setting of the house. Mr. Rusten asked about a proposed roadway on the north
side. He said there previously had been a cul-de-sac north of his front yard. He said the
DuChaine's have a beautiful lot and can see why want they want to split it, but he does
want to preserve the privacy of his back yard.
Chair Holmes introduced Charlie McCarty, 17830 8th Avenue North. Mr. McCarty said he
shares a property line with the DuChaine's and asked about preservation of the vegetation,
especially the trees along the back lines. Mr. McCarty asked about the height of the
proposed houses. Mr. McCarty asked if there is any archaeological significance to this site,
as he had heard Native American Indians used to camp in the area in the late 19th
century.
Chair Holmes closed the public hearing.
Chair Holmes asked about the setbacks for the proposed site.
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Planner Doty reviewed the setback requirements and said the wetland along the rear yard
had additional requirements for the buffer and building setback to the buffer. Planner Doty
said when the building permits are reviewed by City staff, all setbacks requirements would
have to met.
Chair Holmes asked about the proposed house height.
Planner Doty said the height requirement is 35 feet for a single family home.
Chair Holmes asked if there is any archeological significance to the site.
Planner Doty said he was not aware of any.
Chair Holmes asked about plans for the vegetation and trees.
Planner Doty stated the only trees that would be removed on site are in the location of
proposed homes and driveway. He stated the trees on the back and sides of the lot,
particularly perimeter trees, would be preserved.
Chair Holmes asked about the proposed roadway for the north side.
Planner Doty said the existing public street would not change with this application. The
current drive would be removed and a new drive would be constructed for each lot.
Commissioner Clyman asked what the time line is for grass replacement for the removed
driveway.
Planner Doty said the completion of the landscaping would go with the construction of the
home.
Commissioner Weir asked if it was possible to move the building closer to the street to
alleviate Mr. Rusten's concern.
Planner Doty responded affirmatively, and said the site is large enough to shift the house
forward and still meet setback requirements. Planner Doty said the preliminary plat
requires house pads be shown to determine that the proposed houses can meet setback
requirements.
Chair Holmes commented that the placement on the north lot appears to be placed forward
significantly on the lot.
Planner Doty said the corner of the house may be slightly forward but this house was
generally in the same line as the other homes.
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Chair Holmes said if you draw a line from the carport to the house it is not in line. Chair
Holmes said his is concerned that if one structure moves forward, others will follow. He
asked if there is a way to move the front setback back 10 feet without upsetting the whole
plan.
Planner Doty said that could impact tree removal on the site.
Commissioner Clyman said he is also concerned about the house location, but his main
concern is impact on the wetland. He said removal of trees and vegetation would increase
runoff and filtering.
Commissioner Anderson said she is more concerned about the setback of the house on the
south side. She said she would rather have that one shimmy up. Commissioner Anderson
asked about the change in the location of the turnarounds. She said it would be less
intrusive on the neighbors to have the turnarounds facing in.
Planner Doty said the applicant had requested the change in the turnaround.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Clyman, to approve the
request by Holly Trombley for a preliminary plat and variances for "Duchaine Woods" for
two single family lots, and moving the proposed southern building forward, for property
located at 17815 10th Avenue North. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
B. CHILDREN'S DESIGN GROUP (2006081)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Children's Design Group for a site plan and
conditional use permit for a child care and early childhood education center, for property
located at the southeast corner of Old Rockford Road and Peony Lane.
Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the October 10, 2006 staff report.
Commissioner Clyman asked if there would be directional arrows on the site for traffic.
Senior Planner Drill said directional arrows for internal site circulation are not required.
Chair Holmes introduced Mike Brandt, MFRA, 14800 28th
Avenue N., consulting engineer
for the project. Mr. Brandt said he agrees with the conditions outlined. He added that the
directional arrows were included on the site plan for illustrative purposes, but that they do
not plan on painting directional arrows on the asphalt.
Chair Holmes asked about the safety of the play areas located on the Peony and Old
Rockford Road sides of the proposed structure, and asked if other building placements had
been reviewed with regard to the play area.
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Mr. Brandt said they reviewed a number of plans, and it was determined that with the
wetland and access constraints, the presented plan with the 6 -foot fence and added
landscaping would provide security and safety. Mr. Brandt said the developer, who
specializes in child care centers across the nation, concurred. Mr. Brandt said the
employees would park farther back in the lot and they would try to keep parking for parents
as close to the building as possible.
Commissioner Clyman asked if there is enough barrier to stop an out of control car
careening toward the play area.
Mr. Brandt said this was looked at through the development review process. He said with
the proposed dense plantings and elevation change, and with the curbing, trail on Peony
Lane, and proposed fence, they feel there would be adequate safety in this area.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as no one was present to speak on the
item.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Musliner, to approve the
request by Children's Design Group for a site plan and conditional use permit for a child
care and early childhood education center, for property located at the southeast corner of
Old Rockford Road and Peony Lane.
Commissioner Weir said many people have looked at this site and backed away. He said
this is an excellent use of this property, and probably the only use it can have.
Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
C. BORDER FOODS, INC. (2006088)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Border Foods, Inc. for a conditional use permit,
site plan and variances to allow the construction of a Taco Bell on property located at 9900
Rockford Road
Senior Planner Darling gave an overview of the October 10, 2006 staff report.
Commissioner Neset asked about the bolder color scheme for the proposed structure.
Senior Planning Darling displayed a picture of the Taco Bell built in Bloomington
depicting a pumpkin accent color over the main entry, signage over both entries, and
expression panels with teal/eggplant/mustard/pumpkin colors, a faux arch, and decorative
lighting.
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Commissioner Neset asked what the Zoning Ordinance allows for maximum signage
compared to the applicant's request.
Senior Planning Darling stated that if there is only one sign, 36 square feet is allowed; if
there are two signs the main board can be 32 square feet and the preview board can be 6
square feet. Senior Planner Darling said the applicant is requesting 51 square feet for the
main menu board and 27 square feet for the preview board.
Commissioner Anderson asked if the exit from the by-pass lane on the southwest portion
of the site is wide enough for a large vehicle to exit.
Senior Planner Darling said the drive aisle does meet ordinance requirements. She said
this is not a fire lane, so staff did not request turning radiuses.
Commissioner Clyman asked if the expression panels are being counted toward wall signs.
Senior Planner Darling said these panels are included in total wall signage since the bell is
brand identification.
Commissioner Neset asked about the location of the bells for the site.
Senior Planning Darling said the applicant requested signage on two walls, with both the
bell and Taco Bell lettering on the south and east sides of the proposed building, and two
expression panels would each have a bell.
Commissioner Neset asked if the addition of the bell is what requires the variance.
Senior Planner Darling clarified that all four pieces are signage and would require the
variance.
Commissioner Murdock said she can see with this building shape why they would want
signage on two sides as signage on the south side only of the proposed building seems
inadequate. Commissioner Murdock asked about signage on the Taco Bell on Co. Rd. 24.
Senior Planner Darling reviewed photos of the Taco Bell at the Plymouth Station on
Co. Rd. 24. She said this is a PUD (planned unit development), so the sign requirements
were specifically designed for this location. She said there is no preview board, and the
menu board looks similar to what is allowed under the Zoning Ordinance.
Planning Manager Senness noted that signs are allowed for street frontages, and the
Plymouth Station site has three road frontages, Co. Rd. 24, Medina Road and State
Highway 55.
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Commissioner Anderson asked if there are regulations for banners on the exterior of the
building.
Senior Planner Darling said the ordinance allows temporary signage 4 times per year which
can run for a 14 -day period.
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, James Erickson, 3701 Abbott Avenue South,
Minneapolis MN., representing Border Foods. Mr. Erickson said he has been treated very
professionally by City staff. Mr. Erickson asked if the variances could be voted on
individually. 1) Mr. Erickson said the obvious first choice for the wall sign would be on
the frontage road. He said he would argue hardship because architecturally the east side
looks naked with no bell and no signage. Mr. Erickson said the site line of the signage for
the east side of the building, when driving west, would be visible only at the last minute so
it would not be a trademark advantage. He said he thinks that is enough of a hardship but it
is a judgment call. Mr. Erickson said the two proposed small taco bells on the expression
panels could be deleted as they are not critical to the message. 2) Mr. Erickson said the
menu board variance request is more critical for effective and efficient operation of the
facility. He said these are standard panels Taco Bell uses for business operations. The
main menu board is close to 36 feet as the ordinance required. The additional signage —
triple extender, double extender and topper — is consistent with the way the national chain
operates. Mr. Erickson said the preview board is efficient and effective for business, but
the 6 x 4 size is inadequate to serve the purpose. Mr. Erickson said when the sign
ordinance was rewritten in 2002, the rationale was to limit the size of preview boards so
they did not become a distraction. Mr. Erickson said this 6 x 4 size leads to limitation.
Mr. Erickson said he discussed options with his client. If all variances cannot be approved,
their request would be as follows: 1 (one) menu board with a basic board face of 26.65
feet, plus the triple extender which adds 10.25 square feet, for a total of 36.9 square feet.
Commissioner Neset asked about square footage of the topper portion of the menu board.
Mr. Erickson advised that the topper is 5 square feet.
Commissioner Neset asked about dimensions of the double and triple extender sides.
Mr. Erickson said the basic menu board is 26.65 square feet, the triple extender on the right
side would be 10.25 square feet, and the two singles on the double extender total 8.1 square
feet.
Commissioner Neset asked what is the content on the topper board.
Mr. Erickson said it advertises hot sauce, and ties in specifically with promotions.
Commissioner Neset asked why this is on top of the menu board as that is space that could
be used more effectively.
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Mr. Erickson reiterated that the double and triple extenders are tied to national programs.
He said the topper is more generic advertising and the least effective of three additional
signs.
Commissioner Musliner asked if the building entrance would still have the architectural
bump -out if the sign variances are not granted.
Mr. Erickson answered affirmatively.
Commissioner Musliner asked to review the Taco Bell menu board from the Plymouth
Station.
Senior Planner Darling reviewed this signage which she said was close to meeting the
Zoning Ordinance requirements. Senior Planner Darling added that in addition to the wall
signage for the proposed site, there will be a pylon sign 36 feet in height and just under the
allowed maximum square footage in area.
Commissioner Neset asked what changes occurred to the sign ordinance in 2002.
Senior Planner Darling clarified that no preview boards were allowed prior to 2002.
Commissioner Neset said he questioned the value of this change at the time, but now that
he has children he understands the purpose of preview boards.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as no one was present to speak on the
item.
Commissioner Neset said he thinks we could allow the bell and name over the door and it
makes sense to have the logo and name over the entrance. Commissioner Neset cited the
Caribou Coffee on Co. Rd. 101 and 6 as an example of a site with some similarities where
additional signage was allowed. Commissioner Neset said he would be comfortable with
the two signs, but doesn't think the window pane bells are necessary.
Commissioner Weir said he agrees with Commissioner Neset's suggestion.
Commissioner Murdock said she supports Commissioner Neset, and added the east side
would look architecturally naked without the signage above the entrance door.
Commissioner Clyman pointed out that one difference with the Caribou Coffee site is that
there is no sign post identifying the business, whereas Taco Bell would have a pylon sign.
He said the purpose of the signage is to attract the eye of the passerby. Commissioner
Clyman said he would not support two signs and added the building could still be
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aesthetically pleasing with some creativity. Commissioner Clyman reiterated that the
applicant said the signage was not for the purpose of attracting people.
Commissioner Musliner said she supports staff's recommendation, and she said the
entrance will be well defined with the bump -out on the south side. Commissioner
Musliner said if you are already coming in, you have seen the signage.
Commissioner Murdock asked if the large bell, with no text, would require a variance.
Senior Planner Darling responded affirmatively, and said even logos are considered
signage under our ordinance.
Chair Holmes said the building has two fronts to it, the street and parking lot. He said
from an aesthetic point, he would be in favor of signage on both sides. Chair Holmes said
it would benefit traffic movement through the site.
Commissioner Anderson said she supports staff recommendations, as she has seen the
larger menu boards in other communities and thinks they are ugly. She said the preview
board is good, especially for kids and she would rather see two signs than one.
Commissioner Neset said he agrees with Commissioner Anderson and noted this is the
second time in two months the topic of adequacy of our menu boards has come up.
Commissioner Neset said this needs to be addressed, but this is not the right format.
Commissioner Neset said he would make a recommendation to staff and council to review
the sign ordinance for a better or different way to regulate. He added that ad campaign
signage should also be included.
Commissioner Weir said he agreed with Commissioner Neset that further review in a
different venue is recommended. Commissioner Weir said he believes the Planning
Commission should continue to work within the current sign regulations for this
application as they did for a recent application.
Commissioner Murdock said she disagreed and said she is more inclined to eliminate the
preview board, and go with the larger menu board of 36.9 square feet. She said her kids
are older and don't look at a preview board, and do refer to extenders at times.
Commissioner Murdock said we need to look at the sign ordinance as it does appear that
the City of Plymouth is more stringent than neighboring communities. She said we need to
be aware of businesses that want to relocate in Plymouth and we want to be as friendly as
possible.
Commissioner Clyman said that the preview boards are not his preference, but they do
make for a more efficient drive through. He said he agrees with Commissioner Neset that
the sign ordinance needs to be reviewed so these applications can be evaluated fairly.
Commissioner Clyman said he is in favor of the expanded preview board but not the menu
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board and directional signage. He said changes should start at the ordinance level, and he
would not be voting in favor of the variances.
Commissioner Neset said he would be willing to support Commissioner Murdock's
suggestion and said he would support the variance for a 37 -square foot board.
MOTION by Commissioner Murdock, seconded by Commissioner Weir, to approve the
request by Border Foods, Inc. for a conditional use permit, and site plan to allow the
construction of a Taco Bell on property located at 9900 Rockford Road. Vote. 7 Ayes.
MOTION approved unanimously.
MOTION by Commissioner Murdock, seconded by Commissioner Anderson, to approve
the request by Border Foods, Inc. for a variance allowing signage on two sides which
include the bell and Taco Bell signage, and two expression boards without bells for a Taco
Bell on property located at 9900 Rockford Road. Vote. 5 Ayes. MOTION approved.
Commissioners Clyman and Musliner voting nay.
MOTION by Commissioner Murdock, seconded by Commissioner Weir, to approve the
request by Border Foods, Inc. for a variance allowing one menu board with a triple
extender totaling 36.9 square feet for a Taco Bell on property located at 9900 Rockford
Road.
Commissioner Clyman asked if a variance is granted, if the preview board could be
increased to go with as it adds efficiency for the ordering process.
Commissioner Murdock stated that increased preview boards would add to the overall
square footage of signage and she would not support that.
Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved. Commissioner Anderson voting nay.
D. CARLSON REAL ESTATE COMPANY (2006089)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Carlson Real Estate Company for a conditional use
permit to allow a sports and fitness club in the I-1 district for property located at 14100
Carlson Parkway.
Senior Planner Drill gave an overview of the October 10, 2006 staff report.
Commissioner Musliner asked if there had been any feedback, especially noise -related,
from businesses on either side of the proposed club.
Senior Planning Drill said he had heard from one resident and a few businesses including
Cal Spas, but that they had no concerns once they learned of the use.
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Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Raymond Vaughn, Carlson Real Estate, and
Andre' Deloya, CEO of Accelerated Sports Therapy and Fitness, Inc.
Commissioner Clyman asked when the peak hours of use would occur.
Mr. Deloya said early in the day and probably later in the afternoons. He said the rehab
therapy would occur during the day when those people are available to the business.
Commissioner Clyman asked if the therapy or physical fitness could be done in another
type of location.
Mr. Deloya said lifelong fitness is the operating goal, inherent and lifelong. He said the
fitness program is driven from injury prevention and injury treatment. Mr. Deloya said
sports training and basketball injury prevention would be a big part of the operation, and
they need a performance and fitness center.
Commissioner Clyman asked if this would be like a Lifetime Fitness center.
Mr. Deloya said the membership component is there, but the business would be catering
more to the age 50 and over client.
Commissioner Clyman asked how many people would be present during peak hours.
Mr. Deloya said there would be 10-15 people. He said programs are custom tailored to the
individual and does not expect a high volume.
Commissioner Clyman asked what type of licensed professionals would be on site, and if
massage therapists would be included.
Mr. Deloya said they would be staffing three physical therapists, who are partners/owners
of the business and would be doing the bulk of the fitness therapy. Mr. Deloya said they
won't have massage therapy but if that business opportunity presented itself, they could
consider it.
Commissioner Musliner asked if this business would have other locations.
Mr. Deloya said that this site would be their only location.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as there was no one present to speak
on the item.
Commissioner Musliner said she would approve this request. She noted this is the first
time she has seen such a request in her three years as a Planning Commissioner, and said
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she would be willing to review such applications on a case by case basis and not change
policy.
Commissioner Neset said he agreed with Commissioner Musliner and said he would rather
require that a Conditional Use Permit be required so each case could be discussed. He said
with the limited number of requests they could continue to look at this case by case.
Planning Manager Senness stated a second application had been received.
Commissioner Anderson said she concurred with Commissioners Neset and Musliner. She
said they do have a gymnasium, exercise equipment, and training rooms but it is not like
walking into a doctor's office with one treadmill. Commissioner Anderson said she thinks
this use is acceptable in an industrial setting.
Chair Holmes said more definition of a health club is needed in order to define if a use is a
therapy center or a clinic.
Commissioner Murdock said she is not real clear what exactly would be occurring on a
daily basis, as this use is a combination of uses. She said this really is a physical therapy
clinic and a fitness club. She said this application represents "thinking outside the box",
which is a good thing to give to the residents in the City. Commissioner Murdock said we
will be seeing more of these applications that don't fit in one category. Commissioner
Murdock said this application does fit in this industrial area, as there are not a lot of trucks
or other manufacturing in this setting, but that may not be the case in other Industrial
districts. She said she is comfortable with a case-by-case review, but the Commission
should be aware that they may need to look at more clarification in the ordinances as there
is an increase in applications that don't fit into a particular box.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Clyman to approve the
request by Carlson Real Estate Company for a conditional use permit to allow a sports and
fitness club in the I-1 district for property located at 14100 Carlson Parkway. Vote. 7
Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
Commissioner Weir said he thinks staff should address hybrid uses.
Chair Holmes said we may conclude that our current regulations and ordinances are
effective. He said with more research on these types of issues, the Planning Commission
could be more informed on how to address each case.
Commissioner Anderson suggested researching how other cities are handling such
requests.
Planning Manager Senness stated that would be part of the process.
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7. NEW BUSINESS
8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Holmes, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 9:11 p.m.