HomeMy WebLinkAboutPlanning Commission Minutes 09-20-2006Approved Minutes
City of Plymouth
Planning Commission Meeting
September 20, 2006
MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair James Holmes, Commissioners E. J. Clyman, Melissa
Musliner, Karl Neset, Kathleen Murdock, Frank Weir and Sarah Anderson
MEMBERS ABSENT: None
STAFF PRESENT: Planning Manager Barbara Senness, Planner Joshua Doty, Associate
Planner Kip Berglund, Associate Planner Jared Noelting, Housing Manager James Barnes,
City Engineer Bob Moberg, and Office Support Representative Janice Bergstrom
1. CALL TO ORDER - 7:00 P.M.
2. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
3. PUBLIC FORUM
4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Musliner, to approve the
September 20, 2006 Planning Commission Agenda. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
5. CONSENT AGENDA
A. APPROVAL OF THE SEPTEMBER 6, 2006 PLANNING COMMISSION
MINUTES
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Clyman, to approve the
September 6, 2006 Planning Commission Minutes. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
B. BRAD AND PAULINE BLASCHKO (2006077)
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Clyman, to approve the
request by Brad and Pauline Blaschko for a variance for impervious surface coverage to
allow a remodel to the existing home located at 1429 West Medicine Lake Drive. Vote. 7
Ayes. MOTION approved.
C. IGNACIO ALARCON POLANIA (2006084)
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Clyman, to approve the
request by Ignacio Alarcon Polania for a variance to allow construction of a detached
garage in a front yard for property located at 940 Garland Lane N. Vote. 7 Ayes.
MOTION approved.
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D. THOMAS AND JO ANN BECKER (2006086)
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Clyman, to approve the
request by Thomas and Jo Ann Becker for variances for front yard setback and impervious
surface coverage to allow construction of an attached garage addition for property located
at 10210 South Shore Drive. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved.
6. PUBLIC HEARINGS
A. QUALITY HOME SERVICES, INC. (2006087)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Quality Home Services, Inc. for a conditional use
permit to exceed 1,000 square feet in gross floor area of attached garage space for property
located at 3165 Xanthus Lane North.
Associate Planner Berglund gave an overview of the September 12, 2006 staff report.
Commissioner Neset asked if there is one door in the rear and if the lower level garage is
the same size as the upper level garage.
Associate Planner Berglund stated the lower portion is accessed through a single overhead
door. He said the garage does have the same square footage as the 3 -stall garage located
directly above.
Holmes introduced the property owner, Bob Weinzierl, 2700 Zanzibar Lane N. He said the
purpose of the garage would be for household items, not a business. He said the major
benefit in putting in this self-contained garage is to avoid another yard shed in the back
yard.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as no one was present to speak on the
item.
MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Neset, to approve the
request by Quality Home Services, Inc. for a conditional use permit to exceed 1,000 square
feet in gross floor area of attached garage space for property located at 3165 Xanthus Lane
North. Vote. 7 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
7. NEW BUSINESS
A. CARIBOU COFFEE COMPANY, INC. (2006078)
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Chair Holmes introduced the request by Caribou Coffee Company, Inc. for a variance to
allow on-site directional signage with a corporate logo for property located at 4345 Nathan
Lane N.
Planner Doty gave an overview of the September 12, 2006 staff report.
Commissioner Neset asked if this would be the only property with a drive through in the
development.
Planner Doty responded affirmatively.
Commissioner Anderson questioned if the Dairy Queen at 4000 Annapolis Lane has
directional signage with a logo.
Commissioner Neset said that possibly this had been approved because this site is more
difficult than the average to access.
Planning Manager Senness said she did not recall issuing a sign permit with a logo for that
location but staff could check on it.
Commissioner Clyman asked where signage for the building would be located and if there
would be a sign facing Co. Rd. 9.
Planner Doty said the sign plan for the development shows a freestanding business sign at
the maximum size allowed on the southeast corner of the development. He said there are
multiple street frontages and wall signage would be allowed on the Nathan Lane side,
Rockford Rd. side, and the north side. Planner Doty said there is potential for Caribou to
have wall signage on three sides if the property owner agrees to that.
Commissioner Murdock asked about the directional signage for the new Dunn Brothers
Coffee, located at 3195 Vicksburg Lane.
Planner Doty said this directional signage has text, no logo.
Commissioner Clyman asked if this is the first time a variance is being requested.
Planner Doty answered affirmatively.
Chair Holmes introduced the applicant, Jeff Johnson, who said that at least 75% of other
municipalities will allow the logo. He displayed an example of a Caribou Coffee site in
Roseville, which was similar to this project, and said the signage was required by the City.
Mr. Johnson said they are not looking to advertise, but rather add a logo for easy
recognition. Mr. Johnson pointed out that the first entrance on Nathan Lane is an "exit
only" and customers would have to continue to the entrance in front of Cub Foods and
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navigate through the parking lot to find the Caribou Coffee drive through lane on the west
side. Mr. Johnson said that once customers get into the development for Caribou Coffee,
these signs would just direct them to the site. Mr. Johnson said the Caribou Coffee
trademark standard with text and logo is tightly controlled. He pointed out that Starbucks,
whose initial sign permit was denied, was able to construct a shape sign instead of using
their logo. Mr. Johnson reiterated that the requested signage is not for advertising their
space, and his definition of "logo" is not advertising.
Commissioner Musliner stated she is a Caribou Coffee customer and commented that she
could not recall their logo. She said as a consumer, she personally likes words, rather than
a logo and said she thinks text would be adequate.
Commissioner Weir said the twin arches are recognized for McDonald's, and that is an
advertisement. He said the caribou is identified for Caribou Coffee the same way.
Mr. Johnson said the caribou is readily recognizable and is symbolic for recognition.
Commissioner Neset referenced the Roseville Caribou Coffee and asked if it was the only
drive through in that development. He asked how many signs were present as it appeared
to be a lot of signs.
Mr. Johnson responded that it is the only drive through and there are 6 directional signs,
plus a pylon sign and signage on the front of the building. He said the City of Roseville
promotes such directional signage, and required illumination which added significant cost.
He noted that Maple Grove and one other suburb do not allow the use of logos.
Commissioner Clyman asked about using shapes for signage and no text.
Mr. Johnson said they would still use directional signage but do not have a readily,
identifiable Caribou Coffee shape to default to.
Planner Doty said different shapes could be allowed for directional signage, but said the
logo shape of a sign could be considered advertising.
Commissioner Clyman asked how many directional signs would be placed at the site.
Mr. Johnson said there would be two directional signs, and there would be three signs on
the building. He noted that because this is a challenging site for directing traffic; he
anticipates Cub Foods having complaints about traffic navigating the parking lot.
Commissioner Musliner questioned who is being served by these signs and what would the
harm be.
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Planner Doty clarified that the intent is to have separation from business/advertising
signage and directional signage. He said provisions in the ordinance make this distinction
and state that directional signage shall include the name and/or address of a business only.
Commissioner Musliner said if the signage is assisting motorists in finding a location, we
should give as much information as possible.
Planning Manager Senness said the site has two points of entry, and the location of the
Caribou Coffee would be clearly seen from the three building signs. She said the drive
through would be in the vicinity of the Caribou Coffee site. Planning Manager Senness
added that customers would be driving slowly through this high -activity area Planning
Manager Senness said this presents a potential policy question to look at for future
requests.
Commissioner Murdock said the distinction between what is advertising is a very grey
area, and it appears zoning doesn't specifically exclude corporate logos. She said she
could see where a corporate logo, over time, could become ingrained. Commissioner
Murdock said she is a "logo person" and recognized the Caribou logo right way. She said
because of the size restrictions, the sign can't be big enough to accommodate both the logo
and text like they did in Roseville. She said she does think the City should review the size
restrictions and definitions of advertising and directional signage.
Mr. Johnson concurred that the sign and text are the trademark of Caribou Coffee. He said
his alternative is to not say Caribou Coffee on the sign at all, which he said creates a
hardship. Mr. Johnson said the text alone has less value than the logo on its own.
Planning Manager Senness asked what they did in other communities that have not allowed
the logo and text.
Mr. Johnson said they applied for a variance, which was issued in all cases.
Commissioner Clyman asked how much square footage is allowed for signage on the
building.
Mr. Johnson said the signs are 4 -feet high and 3.95 square feet.
Commissioner Clyman asked if the applicant would consider if the signage square footage
were applied against the total allowable sign area for the development.
Mr. Johnson answered affirmatively.
Commissioner Clyman asked how many colors were used for the sign.
Mr. Johnson said the colors are teal and black, with some white.
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Commissioner Musliner said she agrees with Commissioner Murdock that the City should
look at this issue further and review what other cities do as a policy change. Personally,
Commissioner Musliner said she recommends logo and text and supports this variance.
Commissioner Anderson said it is important to have directional signage for safety. She
said she is mainly concerned about the size and shape of the signs. Commissioner
Anderson said rather than big, bulky signs, she prefers signage to be short and wide.
Commissioner Anderson said she appreciates what staff has done but recommends that the
City Council look at changes to the signage regulations. Commissioner Anderson
recommended approval of the variance, with some consideration to the size.
Commissioner Clyman asked if logos are accepted on parking space signage.
Planning Manager Senness said occasionally the owner of a business in a strip mall may
have several spaces reserved where there is a quick turnover in parking spaces. She added
that these would be regulated by the owner of the business or strip center, not City -
regulated.
Commissioner Clyman agreed with Commissioner Anderson that the directional signage is
for safety. He said he thinks the applicant should be allowed to have the logo, but it is a
form of advertising. Commissioner Clyman added that the logo would be easily
recognized by persons who can't read English or persons with visual impairment.
Commissioner Clyman recommended that the directional signs be included in total square
footage allowed for signage, signage be limited to two signs and signage be limited to two
colors with white trim.
Commissioner Neset said the applicant presented a good case, but said he thinks the
directional signage per City policy would be adequate. He said there may be room to
revisit this as a matter of policy to determine if some changes should be made.
Commissioner Neset added there are no other drive through's in the development and
would not support the variance request.
Commissioner Weir said he would be denying the variance, but recommends the zoning
ordinance regarding logos on signage be reviewed for future uses.
MOTION by Commissioner Neset, seconded by Commissioner Weir to deny the request
by Caribou Coffee Company, Inc. for a variance to allow on-site directional signage with a
corporate logo for property located at 4345 Nathan Lane N.
Commissioner Murdock clarified that the motion is for directional signage with text only.
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Commissioner Neset said it is up to applicant how they will protect their trademark rights.
Commissioner Neset recommended a work session to look at the signage issues more
closely.
Vote. 3 Ayes. MOTION failed. Commissioners Anderson, Murdock, Musliner and
Clyman voting Nay.
MOTION by Clyman, seconded by Commissioner Anderson, to approve the request by
Caribou Coffee Company, Inc. for a variance to allow on-site directional signage with a
corporate logo for property located at 4345 Nathan Lane N., with conditions that there be
no more than two signs, and all square footage of signs apply toward the total allowable
signage area, and signs are limited to two colors with white trim.
Friendly amendment by Commissioner Anderson requiring that the sign be wider and
shorter.
Chair Holmes said one issue with signage is to maintain consistency. He said to pass an
amendment with specific stipulations for a specific property creates problems as they have
seen with other projects. Chair Holmes said he would vote against the friendly amendment
and ask for a study session to see if procedural changes within the ordinance need to be
rewritten to be fair and adequate to residents and business owners.
Friendly amendment withdrawn by Commissioner Anderson. She said it makes sense to
approve the variance without conditions.
MOTION withdrawn by Commissioner Clyman.
Commissioner Clyman said he concurred with Commissioner Anderson, but did promote a
policy review that directional signage be applied against total allowable square footage for
signage.
MOTION by Clyman, seconded by Commissioner Musliner, to approve the request by
Caribou Coffee Company, Inc. for a variance to allow on-site directional signage with a
corporate logo for property located at 4345 Nathan Lane N. Vote. 4 Ayes. MOTION
passed. Chair Holmes, Commissioners Neset and Weir voting Nay.
B. JULIE RALPH (2006079)
Chair Holmes introduced the request by Julie Ralph for an interim home occupation license
for the property located at 4250 Ximines Lane N.
Associate Planner Noelting gave an overview of the September 12, 2006 staff report.
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Commissioner Clyman asked if there is a homeowners association for this development
and if a "Children At Play" sign could be posted.
Planning Manager Senness advised that the City no longer posts these signs as they were
not found to be effective.
Commissioner Clyman asked if speed bumps could be utilized.
City Engineer Moberg responded that given the geometries with a relatively short street,
speed bumps would not be an effective measure to manage traffic.
Planning Manager Senness added that the photo indicated no site line problems. She said
speeds would be low and she does not foresee a driver not being able to stop for a
pedestrian.
Commissioner Neset asked for clarification on how interim home occupations are issued,
renewed and revoked.
Associate Planner Noelting said the interim home occupation license is valid for one year,
and the applicant is required to submit for renewal. Staff will review for any issues or
complaints and if none, will renew up to 3 years after that time. Associate Planner
Noelting said that if there have been issues, an administrative process would allow staff to
revoke the license.
Commissioner Neset asked if the license could be revoked prior to the renewal date.
Associate Planner Noelting answered affirmatively. He said if there was a complaint and
staff determined there was a blatant violation, the City could follow through with the City
Attorney to determine if the license should be revoked.
Commissioner Neset asked if there are any interim home occupation licenses in the City
for massage, and if these are approved massage therapists and properly licensed.
Associate Planner Noelting stated there are currently 8 approved and licensed massage
therapy home occupations.
Commissioner Neset asked if there were any instances where there had been trouble with
an in-home occupation, or where one was revoked.
Associate Planner Noelting said he had checked with Captain Joel Franz and found no
problems. He added that the City Attorney reported no problems with licensed massage
therapy home occupations in all the cities he works with. Planning Manager Senness said
that the problems occur primarily when the business is not licensed.
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Commissioner Clyman asked if a massage therapy application has ever been denied by the
City.
Planning Manager Senness responded negatively.
Chair Holmes introduced Julie Ralph, 4250 Ximines Lane N. Ms. Ralph said her mission
is to provide a tranquil, peaceful respite in a warm and caring environment. She said she
has worked in the health care field for over 19 years and wishes to educate people about
therapeutic massage. Ms. Ralph said she graduated in June, 2006 from the MN School of
Business located in Plymouth. She said it was always her intent to run a business out of
her home, be able to set her own hours and wanted the business to be flexible to fit in with
family life. Ms. Ralph said she wants to help others in a variety of ways. She said
marketing would be by word of mouth and referrals. Ms. Ralph said working from home
makes services affordable as her overhead would be low. Ms. Ralph concluded that she
would follow Plymouth city ordinances for conducting her business.
Chair Holmes asked if anyone form the audience wished to speak on this item.
Chair Holmes introduced Peter Perrine, 18010 31" Avenue North, who said he would not
be opposed to this application if he felt the City had sufficient conditions to assure there
wouldn't be problems. Mr. Perrine said there is conflicting information in that Section
615.09 Subd. F does not allow a massage centered therapy business in residential zoned
districts, but the interim home occupation license does include massage therapy. Mr.
Perrine said he understands there is lower overhead for a business in a residence, but an
auto business would not be allowed and he asked if this kind of business is compatible with
a family neighborhood. Mr. Perrine said many businesses with similar names, are used as a
front for other business. Mr. Perrine said people come to Plymouth because they value the
character and quality of life in Plymouth, and he said it is important to maintain its
character. Mr. Perrine said proper conditions have to be determined.
Commissioner Weir said the stated requirements are in place, the business must be licensed
by the City, and the applicant must be licensed by the State. Commissioner Weir said he
was at a loss as to understand what the problem is.
Mr. Perrine asked what would happen if there are violations of the conditions established
for this interim home occupation license.
Planning Manager Senness noted that two additional conditions could be added to the
resolution which include 1) all clients would enter through front door of the applicant's
home, and 2) a client waiting area would be provided inside the home. Planning Manager
Senness said the code limits clients to 10, so there would be no reason to limit it to 7. She
said hours of operation are stipulated in the code and if any conditions are violated,
revocation of the license is a possibility.
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Mr. Perrine asked if there are roommates in the home, would they be allowed do massage
therapy.
Chair Holmes said the license is issued to the applicant only.
Mr. Perrine said he thinks the City needs to look carefully at re -regulating this area of
business.
Chair Holmes introduced Tim Larsen, 10860 41St Avenue N, who said he represents the
Lost Lake neighborhood. He said he signed a petition stating that this is not the character
of the neighborhood they moved into. He said he is dependent on the Planning
Commission to see that the quaintness and character of the neighborhood stays the same.
Mr. Larsen said he that this not a business zoned area, and he would be as concerned if an
auto shop or tree trimming business were next door. Mr. Larsen said it would be easy to
get the wrong twin home, and he would not like a knock at his door with those hours of
operation. Mr. Larsen requested that the recommendation to the City Council be to turn
down this application.
Chair Holmes introduced Regina Hughes, 4171 Jason Ct. NE. St. Michael MN. Ms.
Hughes said she is the massage therapy program coordinator at the MN School of
Business. Ms. Hughes thanked the City of Plymouth for having good license regulations as
it requires people to have the proper education. She said she thinks the problem is that the
City of Minneapolis does not require anything and this is where you get people using a
massage therapy business as a front. Ms. Hughes confirmed that Ms. Ralph was a 4.0
student with 600 hours of class. Ms. Hughes said she operates a home business in St.
Michael, on a cul-de-sac, and said she has had more problems with teens than with her
clients. She said she had to go through the same licensing process, but there was no notice
to her neighbors. Ms. Hughes said her neighbors did not know she even had a business,
and she has less than 10 clients per day.
Chair Holmes introduced Dana Perusse Nyholm, 10910 35 Pl. N. Ms. Perusse Nyholm
said she has been a practicing massage therapist since 1998. She said she sees clients in
her home, and said her children are at home while clients are there. Ms. Perusse Nyholm
said she is located next to Armstrong High School and the neighbors within 200 feet were
notified and she has had no problems. Ms. Perusse Nyholm clarified that a "center" has
more than one practitioner. She said that Ms. Ralph would be one mile from her business,
and a competitor, but she still asked the Planning Commission to recommend approval.
Chair Holmes introduced Heidi Keefe, 4310 Harriet Avenue. Ms. Keefe said she has
known Ms. Ralph for 20 years. She said Ms. Ralph is a wonderful mother, has worked
very hard for her degree, and is working very hard to start her own business. Ms. Keefe
said she looks forward to being a client of Julie's.
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Chair Holmes introduced Megan Rounds, 2114 Greenway Avenue, Shakopee. Ms. Rounds
said she, her husband and many of their neighbors run home based businesses. She said
not many people know they have a home business. Ms. Rounds said she has known Ms.
Ralph for 21 years. Ms. Rounds said she and her husband have received massages from
Ms. Ralph (practice massages required as part of the School of Business requirements), and
she questioned whether anyone in the neighborhood knew because there was only one car
in the driveway at a time. She added that she had excellent directions and had no difficulty
locating Ms. Ralph's home. Ms. Rounds added that the incline in the driveway prohibits
speeding. Ms. Rounds encouraged approval of the application, which would be in keeping
with the nation wide trend toward home based industry.
Chair Holmes introduced Mary Schabel, 17410 9th Avenue. Ms. Schabel said she has had
a part-time, massage therapy business her in home for 1+ years. Ms. Schabel said she
thinks opposition comes from people who don't understand the business. She said the
majority of her clients are during the day when the neighbors are usually at work. Ms.
Schabel addressed the client waiting area, and said that she never schedules clients back to
back and keeps her clientele confidential.
Chair Holmes introduced Inna Sicard, 14600 39th Avenue North. Ms. Sicard said she has a
massage therapy business in her home, and welcomed Mr. Perrine's questions and the
opportunity to give information on massage therapy. Ms. Sicard gave some history and
background on the benefits of massage therapy, an ancient treatment. Ms. Sicard said she
is thankful massage therapy is getting popular and helpful in America. She said she has
respect and concern for the neighbors, and said the new massage therapy business will be a
beautiful addition to the community.
Chair Holmes closed the public hearing.
Commissioner Clyman asked for clarification regarding city code and enforcement of
license infractions.
Planning Manager Senness stated that both the Zoning Ordinance and City Code address
issues of enforcement and revocation.
Commissioner Musliner left at 8:55 p.m.
Commissioner Clyman asked if a bond, covering potential damage to property, is required
for the licensee to practice massage therapy.
Associate Planner Noelting said the City does not require a bond for home occupations.
The home occupation license is required because there would be more than one client per
day. The certificate to practice massage therapy does require insurance.
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Commissioner Clyman commented that he thinks it is fantastic that Ms. Ralph chose to
live in Plymouth, attend a Plymouth college and practice what she has learned in Plymouth.
He said she is a model example of community involvement and a positive contribution to
her neighborhood. Commissioner Clyman said the neighborhood has some valid concerns.
He asked about the address numbers on the front door.
Ms. Ralph said the number is straightforward on the far right side, and the front house
lights shine down on the numbers.
Commissioner Clyman said he hopes there would be a neighborhood watch program and
said he feels this neighborhood should be involved in this. He advised that the neighbors
have a right to petition the City for protection of their kids.
Commissioner Weir said it is ludicrous to compare the massage business to an auto repair
business as the noise levels are very different.
MOTION by Commissioner Neset, seconded by Commissioner Weir, to approve the
request by Julie Ralph for an interim home occupation license for the property located at
4250 Ximines Lane N.
Friendly amendment by Commissioner Clyman to add a condition that all clients would
enter by the front door.
Friendly amendment accepted by Commissioner Neset.
Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
C. HRA TAX INCREMENT FINANCING FOR PLYMOUTH CROSSROADS
STATION
Chair Holmes introduced the request by the Plymouth Housing and Redevelopment
Authority for a Tax Increment Financing Plan and Redevelopment Plan for TIF
Redevelopment) district No. 1-3, Dove Capital, LLC, for the Plymouth Crossroads Station
Project located south of Highway 55 and east of Cottonwood Lane.
Housing Program Manager Barnes gave an overview of the September 12, 2006 staff
report.
Chair Holmes stated that everyone is excited to see this project move forward.
Chair Holmes opened and closed the public hearing as no one was present to speak on the
item.
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September 20, 2006
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MOTION by Commissioner Weir, seconded by Commissioner Murdock, to approve the
request by the Plymouth Housing and Redevelopment Authority for a Tax Increment
Financing Plan and Redevelopment Plan for TIF (Redevelopment) district No. 1-3, Dove
Capital, LLC, for the Plymouth Crossroads Station Project located south of Highway 55
and east of Cottonwood Lane. Vote. 6 Ayes. MOTION approved unanimously.
8. ADJOURNMENT
MOTION by Chair Holmes, without objection, to adjourn the meeting at 9:06 p.m.